Thoughts on Warrior Support

So, Warrior doesn't really have much in the way of group support beyond banners and might generation. An idea occurred to me. What if Might Makes Right were changed so that might you grant gives health and endurance rather than might you apply to yourself granting healing and endurance?

By this I mean:Might Makes RightWhen you apply might, also grant healing and endurance.Healing: 133 (0.02)Endurance Gained: 2

This could be paired with Phalanx Strength so that as you apply might to yourself you grant it, healing, and endurance gain to your nearby allies, but would also work with "For Great Justice!" and blast finishers in fire fields. Solo warrior gameplay would not change. The only issue I could see would be in WvW, but that would be limited to the player cap on who you can grant might.

Thoughts from you all? Would this be OP and broken or would this be a healthy change?

just did that yesterday on Triple Double metaevent

Strength 1-2-2Tactics 3-3-3

@zionophir.6845 said:just did that yesterday on Triple Double metaevent

Strength 1-2-2Tactics 3-3-3

What I am saying is let Might Makes Right give its benefits to the people you grant might to. What you did was heal yourself while giving out might to others.

would be broken in plenty of scenarios

at the rate a warrior can pump out might with traited greatsword and sigil of strength and food..the endurance gain alone to a whole group would be beyond broken

this is for pve offcourse, doesn't make it any less true.

imagine condi mirages who are allready the top condi raid build, now with a warrior fueling them even more endurance?? yea no thank you! the opposite should happen, more condi builds should be made better

or power daredevil, would also drastically improve and become the dominant burst build

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:just did that yesterday on Triple Double metaevent

Strength 1-2-2Tactics 3-3-3

if they are specced to heal themselves when getting a boon, then its almost the same thing.

@zionophir.6845 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:just did that yesterday on Triple Double metaevent

Strength 1-2-2Tactics 3-3-3

What I was mentioning was for the trait to heal others as well when you give them might.

@melandru.3876 said:would be broken in plenty of scenarios

at the rate a warrior can pump out might with traited greatsword and sigil of strength and food..the endurance gain alone to a whole group would be beyond broken

this is for pve offcourse, doesn't make it any less true.

imagine condi mirages who are allready the top condi raid build, now with a warrior fueling them even more endurance?? yea no thank you! the opposite should happen, more condi builds should be made better

or power daredevil, would also drastically improve and become the dominant burst build

The endurance would be the one issue I agree. Of course it does nothing if their endurance is full. Would granting half the healing and endurance the warrior receives make it not broken in your opinion? Again this was just a random idea I had to create a more viable warrior support role, and it seemed like a simple change to one trait could do it.

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:So, Warrior doesn't really have much in the way of group support beyond banners and might generation. An idea occurred to me. What if Might Makes Right were changed so that might you grant gives health and endurance rather than might you apply to yourself granting healing and endurance?

By this I mean:Might Makes RightWhen you apply might, also grant healing and endurance.Healing: 133 (0.02)Endurance Gained: 2

This could be paired with Phalanx Strength so that as you apply might to yourself you grant it, healing, and endurance gain to your nearby allies, but would also work with "For Great Justice!" and blast finishers in fire fields. Solo warrior gameplay would not change. The only issue I could see would be in WvW, but that would be limited to the player cap on who you can grant might.

Thoughts from you all? Would this be OP and broken or would this be a healthy change?

I really like this idea. I like it almost as much as your idea of making warhorn skills count as shouts and rolling the trait into the shouts GM!

However, I am hoping for a more designated support specialization in the future. I personally would not want support skills spread over too many trait lines. So my suggestion would be to put a trait like that in Discipline with the banners trait, or to move it to tactics and replace GM 1(finishers effects doubled), but swap places with it for empowered in Master tier slot 3.

@Opopanax.1803 said:

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:So, Warrior doesn't really have much in the way of group support beyond banners and might generation. An idea occurred to me. What if Might Makes Right were changed so that might you grant gives health and endurance rather than might you apply to yourself granting healing and endurance?

By this I mean:

Might Makes Right

When you apply might, also grant healing and endurance.Healing: 133 (0.02)Endurance Gained: 2

This could be paired with Phalanx Strength so that as you apply might to yourself you grant it, healing, and endurance gain to your nearby allies, but would also work with "For Great Justice!" and blast finishers in fire fields. Solo warrior gameplay would not change. The only issue I could see would be in WvW, but that would be limited to the player cap on who you can grant might.

Thoughts from you all? Would this be OP and broken or would this be a healthy change?

I think you are referring to my musings about making warhorn skills heal. That was in addition to vigourous shouts not rolling them into one trait.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Opopanax.1803 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:So, Warrior doesn't really have much in the way of group support beyond banners and might generation. An idea occurred to me. What if Might Makes Right were changed so that might you grant gives health and endurance rather than might you apply to yourself granting healing and endurance?

By this I mean:

Might Makes Right

When you apply might, also grant healing and endurance.Healing: 133 (0.02)Endurance Gained: 2

This could be paired with Phalanx Strength so that as you apply might to yourself you grant it, healing, and endurance gain to your nearby allies, but would also work with "For Great Justice!" and blast finishers in fire fields. Solo warrior gameplay would not change. The only issue I could see would be in WvW, but that would be limited to the player cap on who you can grant might.

Thoughts from you all? Would this be OP and broken or would this be a healthy change?

Well yes, it was a good idea. It could work well towards a better support warrior.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:just did that yesterday on Triple Double metaevent

Strength 1-2-2Tactics 3-3-3

@melandru.3876 said:would be broken in plenty of scenarios

at the rate a warrior can pump out might with traited greatsword and sigil of strength and food..the endurance gain alone to a whole group would be beyond broken

this is for pve offcourse, doesn't make it any less true.

imagine condi mirages who are allready the top condi raid build, now with a warrior fueling them even more endurance?? yea no thank you! the opposite should happen, more condi builds should be made better

or power daredevil, would also drastically improve and become the dominant burst build

mirage and daredevil will never have full endurance, it's part of their dps. daredevil does +5% damage per endurance bar that is empty (so that is +15%)not only will their bars allways be empty, to upkeep said +15%

they would albe be able to dodge alot more, which is another dps gain (+10% from bounding dodger, lasts 4 seconds)in fractals with vigor (easy perma upkept) and mist mobility pot you have 90% endurance regen (cap is 100%) now add to that your idea off endurance distribution and you can see why this would be beyond broken

even to a point where instead of dragonhunters i could see 2-3 daredevils per group this would require hevay testing to see effective burst dmg as that's where dragonhunter is king, for now

@melandru.3876 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:just did that yesterday on Triple Double metaevent

Strength 1-2-2Tactics 3-3-3

@melandru.3876 said:would be broken in plenty of scenarios

at the rate a warrior can pump out might with traited greatsword and sigil of strength and food..the endurance gain alone to a whole group would be beyond broken

this is for pve offcourse, doesn't make it any less true.

imagine condi mirages who are allready the top condi raid build, now with a warrior fueling them even more endurance?? yea no thank you! the opposite should happen, more condi builds should be made better

or power daredevil, would also drastically improve and become the dominant burst build

And if the benefits are halved to other players? Or if the endurance gained is instead on an ICD of 1 second? You haven't commented on the healing aspect yet, so what are you thoughts on that part?

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:just did that yesterday on Triple Double metaevent

Strength 1-2-2Tactics 3-3-3

it's called defensive weapon skill based on a trait. you will make Warriors fully dependent on other people if you change that to what you wish.

this is why with endure pain (2x), zerker stance and balanced stance (2x), they can survive for ~8 seconds even you throw them alone to a 40 man zerg with almost all directly hitting him and and them hitting the zerg back with 11111 and skill 2 and then fall back using skill 4 and 5 (+other weapon skills etcetc).

and that is even possible with fullglassy spec (aka ALL ZERKER GEAR).

what does it mean? they make a mega-aggressive Zerg commander class.

and apart from that, you can roam alone and just use Healing Signet ticks and Might Makes Might trait (along with others) as your heals.

of course, you will lose versus cheeters that only give them 600 damage using your full burst of your GS (adrenaline even full) and they are in Light or Medium armor and you're full ZERKERS (but did you really lose? lel.)

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:just did that yesterday on Triple Double metaevent

Strength 1-2-2Tactics 3-3-3

@melandru.3876 said:would be broken in plenty of scenarios

at the rate a warrior can pump out might with traited greatsword and sigil of strength and food..the endurance gain alone to a whole group would be beyond broken

this is for pve offcourse, doesn't make it any less true.

imagine condi mirages who are allready the top condi raid build, now with a warrior fueling them even more endurance?? yea no thank you! the opposite should happen, more condi builds should be made better

or power daredevil, would also drastically improve and become the dominant burst build

didn't comment on the healing because it's irrelevant, it's weaker then regeneration with zero healing power. it's the endurance that would be the issue

entire thread is kinda odd. warrior have nothing besides banner and might?

what about empower allies?what about amongst the highest amount off cc (the highest if you add in consumables where warrior get unique skill)

those, with bannners are your support. might generation was useful, somewhere before 2014 i guess

@melandru.3876 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:just did that yesterday on Triple Double metaevent

Strength 1-2-2Tactics 3-3-3

@melandru.3876 said:would be broken in plenty of scenarios

at the rate a warrior can pump out might with traited greatsword and sigil of strength and food..the endurance gain alone to a whole group would be beyond broken

this is for pve offcourse, doesn't make it any less true.

imagine condi mirages who are allready the top condi raid build, now with a warrior fueling them even more endurance?? yea no thank you! the opposite should happen, more condi builds should be made better

or power daredevil, would also drastically improve and become the dominant burst build

Control isn't support though. I was implying more support role like what a Firebrand or Druid can offer.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:just did that yesterday on Triple Double metaevent

Strength 1-2-2Tactics 3-3-3

@melandru.3876 said:would be broken in plenty of scenarios

at the rate a warrior can pump out might with traited greatsword and sigil of strength and food..the endurance gain alone to a whole group would be beyond broken

this is for pve offcourse, doesn't make it any less true.

imagine condi mirages who are allready the top condi raid build, now with a warrior fueling them even more endurance?? yea no thank you! the opposite should happen, more condi builds should be made better

or power daredevil, would also drastically improve and become the dominant burst build

how exactly is control no support?

the best way to deal with incomming damage is to prevent the damage from happening at all.that's literally the point of the breakbar

the difference between good groups, and bad groups.once you make it into the tiers where shait phases the moment you look at it, a whole new world will open for you

those tiers that run only 1 healer, you should see the dps on those comps that are now able to take 1 extra dps

@melandru.3876 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:just did that yesterday on Triple Double metaevent

Strength 1-2-2Tactics 3-3-3

@melandru.3876 said:would be broken in plenty of scenarios

at the rate a warrior can pump out might with traited greatsword and sigil of strength and food..the endurance gain alone to a whole group would be beyond broken

this is for pve offcourse, doesn't make it any less true.

imagine condi mirages who are allready the top condi raid build, now with a warrior fueling them even more endurance?? yea no thank you! the opposite should happen, more condi builds should be made better

or power daredevil, would also drastically improve and become the dominant burst build

Control and support are distinct roles in GW2. Hammer mace/shield Spellbreaker is some of the best control you can get, but that is not a support spec.

The options of warrior support are warhorn, which no one runs outside of openworld pve mobility until they get a mount, banners, which they just nerfed and functioned really only as a stat bot attached to a DPS spec, and Shout heals, which was also nerfed hard in the past.

Yeah, you can still run banners, at reduced stats and now without regen. Shout heals are low relative to their CDs, and warhorn just needs a complete rework before anyone will take it for anything serious.

Giving out 133 (0.02) healing to the group on every incoming might to the warrior will end up being better than regeneration and in addition to regeneration. Even giving out 1 endurance to the group per incoming might to the warrior would be solid support. I understand your misgivings about handing out endurance to Mirages and Daredevils, but I also only see that being a problem in small scale WvW fights, and Raids. Granted I don't do Raids, I don't have that chunk of time available ever to do them, but would that even be helpful on every boss? Would they out dps the top dps spec now? And if they did, then GG, new meta for one small part of the game that most people don't even complete, perhaps you'd see new players to that part of the game.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:just did that yesterday on Triple Double metaevent

Strength 1-2-2Tactics 3-3-3

@melandru.3876 said:would be broken in plenty of scenarios

at the rate a warrior can pump out might with traited greatsword and sigil of strength and food..the endurance gain alone to a whole group would be beyond broken

this is for pve offcourse, doesn't make it any less true.

imagine condi mirages who are allready the top condi raid build, now with a warrior fueling them even more endurance?? yea no thank you! the opposite should happen, more condi builds should be made better

or power daredevil, would also drastically improve and become the dominant burst build

Said who exactly? Control is part of support, both in gw2 and in other games. Just because you don't like it or it doesn't exactly cover areas you'd like them to (which seems to be strictly buffs and heals), doesn't really mean much.

Also this thread/buff idea seems a bit random, but ok.

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:just did that yesterday on Triple Double metaevent

Strength 1-2-2Tactics 3-3-3

@melandru.3876 said:would be broken in plenty of scenarios

at the rate a warrior can pump out might with traited greatsword and sigil of strength and food..the endurance gain alone to a whole group would be beyond broken

this is for pve offcourse, doesn't make it any less true.

imagine condi mirages who are allready the top condi raid build, now with a warrior fueling them even more endurance?? yea no thank you! the opposite should happen, more condi builds should be made better

or power daredevil, would also drastically improve and become the dominant burst build

control can be part of any role. Both dps and support roles can be required to bring it or not. It is not mutual exclusive to support or dps.

@Opopanax.1803 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:just did that yesterday on Triple Double metaevent

Strength 1-2-2Tactics 3-3-3

@melandru.3876 said:would be broken in plenty of scenarios

at the rate a warrior can pump out might with traited greatsword and sigil of strength and food..the endurance gain alone to a whole group would be beyond broken

this is for pve offcourse, doesn't make it any less true.

imagine condi mirages who are allready the top condi raid build, now with a warrior fueling them even more endurance?? yea no thank you! the opposite should happen, more condi builds should be made better

or power daredevil, would also drastically improve and become the dominant burst build

I mean, that's the same for heals and buffs, especially in gw2, right?

I see more dps players bringing cc in fractals, etc. I don't see why you would be arguing it is inherently a support/healer job to cc.

@Opopanax.1803 said:I see more dps players bringing cc in fractals, etc. I don't see why you would be arguing it is inherently a support/healer job to cc.

Never said it's inherently support/healer job, but CC is a support(ive?) ability.

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Control and support are distinct roles in GW2.

You said exactly that.

@Opopanax.1803 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Control and support are distinct roles in GW2.

According to your logic support can't deal dmg and dmg dealers can't heal/buff anyone else, because that makes them... what exactly?

Reading your own words can be hard.

@Opopanax.1803 said:Reading your own words can be hard.

Maybe you just fail to understand what you read. Claiming that only pure support builds can use supportive abilities is simply stupid, good job on that claim.