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Question: which is best for meta?

I am a T4 enthusiast and do them everyday. Been doing with Power Reaper since the major buff it received on last patch, and have always managed to keep the top DPS with pretty good sustain. I changed back to my weaver and my DPS meter is almost the same, unfortunately with MUCH more effort because of the rotation, and a LOT more squishy.
Considering that currently both classes do not provide boons for the party and are merely DPS oriented, which one should I focus to play the meta? I am inclined to stay on power reaper due it's MUCH better sustainability.

Appreciate any responses in advance!

Comments

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    balance fun and efficiency I guess.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭

    To play in meta-style in fractals, squad needs to have very strong burst to phase/kill bosses before they can do anything dangerous. And doing that usually requires a skilled static to fractal with. If squad doesn't have that dps due to bad support/dpsers, reaper should perform better due to superior sustain with Soul Eater as it can often dps through the mechanics while weaver needs to be very careful to avoid strong hits.

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks and streams at twitch.tv/ladykittygw2 .

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Reaper can do fractals without being babysat, weaver -hardly.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • DT has power reaper benching 29k (small hitboxes) and power weaver at 35k (large). For "just get in done" PUGging, the difference is less important than the baseline: either gets the job done. For CM speed clear, that 20% is massive.

    So among friends, I'd recommend you stick with weaver; your partners will notice the difference, even if they don't realize it enough to appreciate it. In PUGs, the reaper has a lot of advantages.


    To play in meta-style in fractals,

    I'm not sure that there's a current consensus on what that means. DT has seven builds they list as 'meta', five as 'great', and another three as merely 'good'.

    Then there's the problem that no one really agrees on what "meta" means. Some people use its historical meaning of "what everyone uses" and treat it as synonymous with "optimal." So it's better to be specific about which (if either) of those is appropriate.

    And finally, there's the question of "for whom?" What's "meta" (in any sense of the word) varies with context, as it's one thing in PUGs, another for statics, and another pair depending on whether it's CM or non-CM oriented. Is the group "chill" or focused on speed?

    And that's without considering anyone's preconceptions, which (from various threads we see on Reddit and here) seem to be widespread.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 21, 2019

    Reaper: anything with PUGs because it is just kitten overpowered in all areas and functions as a mini guardian,just slightly worse utility wise. Projectile destruction, check. Boon removal, check. Stability, check. Good dps with upfront burst, check. Great cc bar damage, check. Insane baseline sustain, check. Can switch to kitten proof condi scourge with the most overpowered damage skill in game (Epidemic) for things like Siren's Reef, check.

    Dragonhunter: anything semi organized or slightly more challenge. Similar to reaper just better burst, better or similar utility (minus the boon removal).

    Weaver: static groups and near perfect play. It has nearly no utility, relies a lot on other classes support and player skill and rewards best dps for fractals.

    Warrior: not as required as before. Great cc, boon removal (if required) and damage as well as banners. Can be replaced by a dps with equal or slightly worse cc.

    Soulbeast: great for dps and those Firebrigade groups. Works a bit worse in druid+chrono comps due to redundance. Insane burst, great part dps increase, low cc.

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    DT has power reaper benching 29k (small hitboxes) and power weaver at 35k (large). For "just get in done" PUGging, the difference is less important than the baseline: either gets the job done. For CM speed clear, that 20% is massive.

    So among friends, I'd recommend you stick with weaver; your partners will notice the difference, even if they don't realize it enough to appreciate it. In PUGs, the reaper has a lot of advantages.


    To play in meta-style in fractals,

    I'm not sure that there's a current consensus on what that means. DT has seven builds they list as 'meta', five as 'great', and another three as merely 'good'.

    Then there's the problem that no one really agrees on what "meta" means. Some people use its historical meaning of "what everyone uses" and treat it as synonymous with "optimal." So it's better to be specific about which (if either) of those is appropriate.

    And finally, there's the question of "for whom?" What's "meta" (in any sense of the word) varies with context, as it's one thing in PUGs, another for statics, and another pair depending on whether it's CM or non-CM oriented. Is the group "chill" or focused on speed?

    And that's without considering anyone's preconceptions, which (from various threads we see on Reddit and here) seem to be widespread.

    META is usually used as acronym for "Most Efficient Tactic Available" and thus is usually used for optimized speedclear comps and builds, at least in raid scene. To the point that majority of raid players only acknowledge the speed aspect and don't even consider the safety aspect (though ensuring the kill should be the PUG meta but ppls...)
    Probably everyone knows that acronym already but Kitty specified. And though META and what everyone runs were almost synonymous some time ago, they're not anymore as META has changed but lots of raiders (and PUGmanders) are still sticking to old, outdated metacomps.

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks and streams at twitch.tv/ladykittygw2 .

  • BRNBRITO.9624BRNBRITO.9624 Member ✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019

    If you're always pugging then i'd likely stick to Reaper, and maybe try a different dps if you feel like switching sometimes.

    Played Reaper for 1-2 months and swapped to Soulbeast and honestly on pug parties there's close to no difference on dps, Reaper feels a lot better when you have bad supports. When filling for statics/semi-statics where people actually insta-CC every single bar then yeah Soulbeast bursts higher and helps with spirit/stance share.

    I wouldn't go by benchmark only as someone said above, specially considering most or at least a bunch of bosses are small hitbox, phase times/party dps matters more on class choice so you can sync your burst better IMO (mostly for MAMA/Siax).

    Also i believe Reaper is benching around 31-32k and Weaver is around 34k right now, Reaper can also use Lich Form on some bosses to get higher burst, stack more AR for pot conversion etc.

  • @LadyKitty.6120 said:
    META is usually used as acronym for "Most Efficient Tactic Available"

    Actually, no. That's a "backronym," an abbreviation invented after the word was in use.

    The original meaning comes from the psychological part of gaming: everyone runs rock because who doesn't like smashy-smashy. Then someone realizes that if everyone is running rock, Paper will be OP'd... and now Paper dominates. Then scissors.

    Playing the build is "the game;" trying to stay ahead of the builds everyone is using is the "game beyond the game" or "meta game" for short.

    Over time, the term came to mean "what everyone is running" rather than the original meaning. As the term entered the language for PvE, it started out meaning "what everyone runs" and slowly evolved into "what everyone should run because it's optimal," i.e. "most efficient tactic available."

    Regardless of the history of the term, my key point is that there is no generally agreed upon definition. Different people use the term differently.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019

    reaper for randoms, you hardly need others
    weaver without randoms, you do need others

    in perfect conditions, weaver/dh still the 2 best dps picks

    the current meta comp is not without reason weaver, rene, qfb, war and slb
    damage report 100cm first boss yesterday (frailty and we bleed fire)
    https://dps.report/Slp5-20190518-215333_skor

    video report, 100cm second boss also yesterday (frailty and we bleed fire)

    as you can see, damage only comp (no healer needed) with a weaver, is beyond broken

    weaver, only bested by the best of the best power chronos/dh's

    i personally received training from 2 of those 5, so i take their words above most others as i know what they are capable off, and i know they have their opinions backed up by results

    you probably ask "why is this relevant?" i did mention frailty twice now, didn't i?

    both qfb and weaver had 8k health. we bleed fire (if it hits) does 6k dmg.
    this means near a 1 shott on those 2 characters, right?

    that would happen in bad groups, no doubt.
    here? they hardly take any incomming damage.

    mechanics, and positioning is the best "babysitter" there is

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019

    Do not ask what you can do for meta. Ask what meta can do for you. Basically, do not pick "the best" build just because someone says you should always run best - look at all the "good" builds, and pick the one you will like the most. In your case, if you feel so much more comfortable on reaper, stay on it. It's good enough - and you won't have to depend on others for survival.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Kahlan.7249Kahlan.7249 Member ✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019

    weaver because reapers don't have fiery greatswords and fiery greatswords are the best hehehehe

    mai trin farm 2k19, the place to be--- sparky skell alex radomir ghastly lisa frank qante mercy bacon cat aj nay ++ and yours truly, me :')

  • The second you get downed from running a zero utility, zero CC, zero survivability spec in pug fractals, you have lost the minor advantage you had over specs like reaper.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Unless you have a static with a good support I would just stick with your Reaper, especially if it's more fun for you and you get about the same results.

    Just like with the no heal comp, there is really no need to push yourself that much for extremely minor timegains in the grand scheme when it comes to daily clears, unless that's precisely what you enjoy doing with the content.

    Alternatively give DH a shot, as it kind of is a mix between the two with more utility than both and higher burst sustain than even Reaper in the short moments you usually actually need it with Litany of Wrath.
    The addpull of GS5 and capability to bring reflects, directional block and aegis is especially useful.

    Don't feel too pressured by the "META". Effort you have to put in is usually something that's overlooked, even if the gains with sometimes vastly more effort are extremely marginal to a point where it only makes sense on a DPS golem to reach maximum performance, or to show off in a YT video or something, not for smooth daily clears.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Thank you all for sharing your opinions, personal experience and what not. This has been very helpful. I will probably stick with reaper a lil more then, I just finished Frostfang so it will be a good choice to show it off as well lol.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @pinguadoido.6581 said:
    Thank you all for sharing your opinions, personal experience and what not. This has been very helpful. I will probably stick with reaper a lil more then, I just finished Frostfang so it will be a good choice to show it off as well lol.

    frostfang would be good on firebrand!

    does firebrand have utility? yes it has
    does firebrand have good dps? well it sits at 22k which is 7k below reaper, but a firebrand carries a group harder

    take a look at this https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/guardian/firebrand/power quickness/
    and if your group does not need the support (another firebrand, or a chronomancer) you can just switch to dragonhunter as it uses the exact same gear even the rotations have alot in common

  • No idea where people are getting 29k from Reaper benchmark, maybe checking 1 year old videos?


    ^ full zerk. buffs assume rene+slb in your squad/party.

  • @BRNBRITO.9624 said:
    No idea where people are getting 29k from Reaper benchmark, maybe checking 1 year old videos?

    https://discretize.eu/builds
    "good build" at the bottom, from 5 months ago

    https://discretize.eu/builds/necromancer/power-reaper

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • BRNBRITO.9624BRNBRITO.9624 Member ✭✭
    edited June 23, 2019

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @BRNBRITO.9624 said:
    No idea where people are getting 29k from Reaper benchmark, maybe checking 1 year old videos?

    https://discretize.eu/builds
    "good build" at the bottom, from 5 months ago

    https://discretize.eu/builds/necromancer/power-reaper

    "Published on Dec 20, 2018"

    It's just outdated, as posted above Reaper CURRENTLY is around 31.5-32.5k and current Weaver bench is 34k~, Reaper went up and Weaver went down, so the difference is not as big as it used to be.
    Also remember Reaper uses small hitbox while Weaver uses large, and there's many bosses with small hitbox (he's asking about fractals only), on pugs you'll have better dps/survivability/utility on Reaper most of the time.

  • @BRNBRITO.9624 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @BRNBRITO.9624 said:
    No idea where people are getting 29k from Reaper benchmark, maybe checking 1 year old videos?

    https://discretize.eu/builds
    "good build" at the bottom, from 5 months ago

    https://discretize.eu/builds/necromancer/power-reaper

    "Published on Dec 20, 2018"

    It's just outdated, as posted above Reaper CURRENTLY is around 31.5-32.5k and current Weaver bench is 34k~, Reaper went up and Weaver went down, so the difference is not as big as it used to be.
    Also remember Reaper uses small hitbox while Weaver uses large, and there's many bosses with small hitbox (he's asking about fractals only), on pugs you'll have better dps/survivability/utility on Reaper most of the time.

    5 months is not "just as outdated" as 12 months. And best as I can tell, there are no more recent fractal-oriented benchmarks for Reaper.

    In any case, if you read above, you'll see that people, including myself, aren't dissing Reaper. Many of us have said it's a fine choice. In my strong opinion, even 29k vs 35k isn't a strong enough reason except in situations in which every point counts, and there just aren't many of those. And in situations in which every point counts, 32k vs 34k matters, depending on how well the person plays.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • It really isn't as outdated but it's just not up-to-date with current balance patches is what i mean, stuff changed a bit since then, afaik there aren't 'fractal oriented benchmarks' as people are just pushing for highest dmg on golem/highest dmg rotation on a sandbag, and on fractals you have to adjust your rotation/cd's to the breakbar/party cc speed most of the time, and maybe utilities/traits depending on instabs.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @BRNBRITO.9624 said:
    No idea where people are getting 29k from Reaper benchmark, maybe checking 1 year old videos?

    https://discretize.eu/builds
    "good build" at the bottom, from 5 months ago

    https://discretize.eu/builds/necromancer/power-reaper

    Wasn't that from before the reaper buffs? There was a buff happening 2 months ago, adding another 10% modifier with almost no downside in fractals. Some of the dT guides are outdated like the revenant one.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 23, 2019

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @BRNBRITO.9624 said:
    No idea where people are getting 29k from Reaper benchmark, maybe checking 1 year old videos?

    https://discretize.eu/builds
    "good build" at the bottom, from 5 months ago

    https://discretize.eu/builds/necromancer/power-reaper

    Wasn't that from before the reaper buffs? There was a buff happening 2 months ago, adding another 10% modifier with almost no downside in fractals. Some of the dT guides are outdated like the revenant one.

    It is from before the Soul Eater rework, that got reaper 10% damage and real lifesteal.
    If you check reaper traits, it still on decimate defenses setup. Meaning it hasn't been updated and tested by discretize team.

    https://imgur.com/a/NhxEP9d

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2019

    so we talk about bet power meta or best condi meta?
    if condi - 4-3 scourges, druid or etc
    if power - 3-4 reapers, druid or etc

    and keep attention that 4 scourges best than 4 reapers

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:
    so we talk about bet power meta or best condi meta?
    if condi - 4-3 scourges, druid or etc
    if power - 3-4 reapers, druid or etc

    and keep attention that 4 scourges best than 4 reapers

    There is no condi vs power meta in fractal, power is just better flat out due to the nature of fractals favoring burst.

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @pinguadoido.6581 said:
    I am a T4 enthusiast and do them everyday. Been doing with Power Reaper since the major buff it received on last patch, and have always managed to keep the top DPS with pretty good sustain. I changed back to my weaver and my DPS meter is almost the same, unfortunately with MUCH more effort because of the rotation, and a LOT more squishy.
    Considering that currently both classes do not provide boons for the party and are merely DPS oriented, which one should I focus to play the meta? I am inclined to stay on power reaper due it's MUCH better sustainability.

    Appreciate any responses in advance!

    Weaver only dunks hard on other power dps classes if you're in a group that's doing proper precast cheese with FGS, like on 100cm Skorvaald or Artsariiv... Then nothing will come close to weebo's in those fights. If not, there's not really a huge difference between the different power classes--DH is probably the top choice though due to their coordinated bursts being the highest and their assorted utility (esp f3).

    If you like reaper tho, stick with that... Honestly, unless yer in a speed run static, nobody really gives a kitten as long as yer power and know what yer doing. If anything you should gear a pBS or QB or Ren to be more useful in LFG... :bleep_bloop:

  • @narcx.3570 said:

    @pinguadoido.6581 said:
    I am a T4 enthusiast and do them everyday. Been doing with Power Reaper since the major buff it received on last patch, and have always managed to keep the top DPS with pretty good sustain. I changed back to my weaver and my DPS meter is almost the same, unfortunately with MUCH more effort because of the rotation, and a LOT more squishy.
    Considering that currently both classes do not provide boons for the party and are merely DPS oriented, which one should I focus to play the meta? I am inclined to stay on power reaper due it's MUCH better sustainability.

    Appreciate any responses in advance!

    Weaver only dunks hard on other power dps classes if you're in a group that's doing proper precast cheese with FGS, like on 100cm Skorvaald or Artsariiv... Then nothing will come close to weebo's in those fights. If not, there's not really a huge difference between the different power classes--DH is probably the top choice though due to their coordinated bursts being the highest and their assorted utility (esp f3).

    If you like reaper tho, stick with that... Honestly, unless yer in a speed run static, nobody really gives a kitten as long as yer power and know what yer doing. If anything you should gear a pBS or QB or Ren to be more useful in LFG... :bleep_bloop:

    Couldn't agree more. I do have Healbrand and Alacrigade geared for T4s as well. But I do like to see those big numbers lol

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:
    so we talk about bet power meta or best condi meta?
    if condi - 4-3 scourges, druid or etc
    if power - 3-4 reapers, druid or etc

    and keep attention that 4 scourges best than 4 reapers

    Both would be quite garbage. Offers no utility or dps at all. Thats the stuff you run when you want to spend ~40-50min for normal t4s and don't do cms.

  • @pinguadoido.6581 said:
    which one should I focus to play the meta?

    This question is (f)actually really easy to answer: Weaver! Simply because Weaver = meta (as in most optimal as part of T4 team compositions) whereas Reaper is NOT meta. And the reason for that is quite simple as well: the potential dps output of a Weaver is higher than that of a Reaper.
    Now there's also a bit of a future aspect in your question, which is a bit more complex to answer: never any guarantees there. But knowing ArenaNet, the Ele has always (since launch) been a major factor in optimal compositions towards the PvE endgame, whereas the Necro has mostly been the exact opposite in that matter when it comes to the PvE endgame. So keeping that in mind, it would be weird if ANet would all of the sudden flip that in their next balance update. Having that said, in their most recent updates they are closing the gap, and they might as well continue with this in upcoming updates ... but that would still be wild speculations!

    BUT most importantly, are you asking yourself the right question here? Is it really meta you want to go after? Do you have a dedicated speedclear group (static), or one that's willing to sacrifice a lot to get there? What do you find fun to play? Do you pug a lot? Etc. These are probably questions that are far more worth asking than the one you're asking right now. And to help you with those kind of questions, I direct you to all the posts above :)

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2019

    @Warscythes.9307 said:
    There is no condi vs power meta in fractal, power is just better flat out due to the nature of fractals favoring burst.

    You think someone interested in burst? No way. Burst is fail. Ofc if someone will be lucky and use bust setup he can finish fractal in 2 min faster that normal party, but this is fail way, especial whit less 15% hp and bleed fire instability.
    For cms and t4 people need stability and health sand of life to get chill run.
    Also sometime we use 2.5 support combo to be more chilled.

    Speedrun and meta - this is very very different things

  • @Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

    @pinguadoido.6581 said:
    which one should I focus to play the meta?

    the potential dps output of a Weaver is higher than that of a Reaper.

    What I don't get it is that, after pugging for months now, I haven't seen any weaver DPS output higher than me playing reaper. But when I played weaver I out dps some reapers that weren't doing a good rotation (even tho I did less DPS on weaver than I would on my reaper).

    Continuing talking about DPS builds only:

    Anyway, I have been playing weaver instead of my necro for the past week or so. Love and hate at the same time for the weaver - lots of fun, but lots of headaches (being shot down in a couple hits).

  • @pinguadoido.6581 said:
    What I don't get it is that, after pugging for months now, I haven't seen any weaver DPS output higher than me playing reaper. But when I played weaver I out dps some reapers that weren't doing a good rotation (even tho I did less DPS on weaver than I would on my reaper).

    Continuing talking about DPS builds only:

    Anyway, I have been playing weaver instead of my necro for the past week or so. Love and hate at the same time for the weaver - lots of fun, but lots of headaches (being shot down in a couple hits).

    Yep, i'd say >90% of the people i played with in fractals/raids don't know their rotations or how to adjust to the situation and would get outdps'd even by something like power scourge/scrapper, if you pug then playing something more self-sufficient like pReaper/pChrono will yield better results in dps AND smoothness/utility most of the time.
    When i pug on my chrono i'm usually 2nd in dps if not top (CM/T4), that's while playing as boon and using 4 different bundles to CC, average skill level in CMs/T4/Raids just isn't as high as some people expect it to be, MOST good players i've seen on GW2 play in static/semi-static only.

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:
    There is no condi vs power meta in fractal, power is just better flat out due to the nature of fractals favoring burst.

    You think someone interested in burst? No way. Burst is fail. Ofc if someone will be lucky and use bust setup he can finish fractal in 2 min faster that normal party, but this is fail way, especial whit less 15% hp and bleed fire instability.
    For cms and t4 people need stability and health sand of life to get chill run.
    Also sometime we use 2.5 support combo to be more chilled.

    Speedrun and meta - this is very very different things

    We are comparing power vs condi damage here, there are safe power builds and safe condi builds. Even safe power builds is better than safe condi builds and that's all that is. You have reapers vs scourges and you bet reapers will outburst scourges while be equally as difficult to kill. So really there isn't much of a comparison and no the difference isn't really 2 minutes faster. The difference can be quite big even in a pug team if you run condi vs a power team.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2019

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:
    There is no condi vs power meta in fractal, power is just better flat out due to the nature of fractals favoring burst.

    You think someone interested in burst? No way. Burst is fail. Ofc if someone will be lucky and use bust setup he can finish fractal in 2 min faster that normal party, but this is fail way, especial whit less 15% hp and bleed fire instability.
    For cms and t4 people need stability and health sand of life to get chill run.
    Also sometime we use 2.5 support combo to be more chilled.

    Speedrun and meta - this is very very different things

    Stop talking nonsence, burst and CC is all that matters in t4s/Cms. While 3 reapers with healbrand and alacrity rene can do it juts fine. 4 scoure with druid will sack big duck.
    The same time 3 good weaver with well played fb and rene will reap appart any t4/cm given there isn't nasty instabs like afflicted.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @lare.5129 said:
    so we talk about bet power meta or best condi meta?
    if condi - 4-3 scourges, druid or etc
    if power - 3-4 reapers, druid or etc

    and keep attention that 4 scourges best than 4 reapers

    Both would be quite garbage. Offers no utility or dps at all. Thats the stuff you run when you want to spend ~40-50min for normal t4s and don't do cms.

    Before I say anything, you and I both agree that scrouge in t4 is a stupid idea.

    But, Its very inaccurate to say reaper has no utility. Trash talk its 20% lower dps all you want as that is factual, but anyone who says reaper has no utility is choosing to not discuss actual facts. axe 3 is a boon strip, and gs4 is gigantic aoe blind and boon strip, gs5 is a pull for ads, reaper has a good amount of cc too. Additionally, you can easily drop shadow fiend if you want projectile destruction, more blinds, group condi clense, group stability, more pulls, or even more boon strip.

    Reaper may not be meta because it doesn't have the dps to compete. But as far as utility goes, it is quite good. A discussion like this requires attention to detail.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:
    burst and CC is all that matters in t4s/Cms.

    Stop talking nonsence, no one should use cc skils in cms/t4 - this is not raid. People don't need mostly cc skils for prof play. So and for meta, no matter condi, or power, no any choose can depend from cc.
    Ofc is nice is rene have on swap staff and sometimes use it, but from other team put cc skill on bar is absolutely non competition level.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:
    Reaper may not be meta because it doesn't have the dps to compete.

    low dps is OK. Why? Because the dps is comparable value that depend from many factors. No matter that value we have on golem.
    for meta value is how possible keep proper rotation on boss, during jumping from strikes and etc. and how it simply to reach that value in real environment.
    If no - why no one say about 3 deadeye meta? best dps on sigle golem target and no way for meta party.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2019

    @lare.5129 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    burst and CC is all that matters in t4s/Cms.

    Stop talking nonsence, no one should use cc skils in cms/t4 - this is not raid.

    Yeah, CMs with pug-level dps and no cc. Sounds really entertaining.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BRNBRITO.9624 said:
    When i pug on my chrono i'm usually 2nd in dps if not top (CM/T4), that's while playing as boon and using 4 different bundles to CC, average skill level in CMs/T4/Raids just isn't as high as some people expect it to be, MOST good players i've seen on GW2 play in static/semi-static only.

    Also, most good players end up having to play support when they're pugging, since they are the ones who have multiple roles geared and don't want to sit in LFG forever waiting for a fill.

    And honestly, I don't even mind playing support anymore (I used to hate not dps'ing), cuz like when I DO get to dps, I rarely even have the proper boons to do my rotation correctly anyways, get no cc carry, have to stare at the boss having protection the entire fight, have to risk a pug BS failing anoms/balls, etc etc etc... At least if I'm playing Ren or BS I can make sure that stuff is covered for the lil' puggerino dps'ers.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    also don't forget that if we have 3 reapers in party we absolutely don't need worry about boonstrip because it include in rotation. Is is so impressive !