Let’s Analyze the Current Information

SPOILERS PLEASE DONT READ AHEAD UNLESS YOU WANA BE SPOILED!

Ok so elder dragons have offsprings and a lineage. This is exciting, Anet is finally adding concrete structure to their lore. So let’s analyze the data

Dragons have children, mother/father, and so on.

Dragons absorb energy.

The excess of energy causes destruction, madness, rage, wars, and so on

Dragons are now confirmed to go mad with energy. So not even dragons are immune to the effects of too much energy.

This inclined that dragons are just a natural part of evolution and they are a necessary entity to maintain balance, but the entities eventually also fall into madness.

Gods are all humans.

Gods can also absorb massive amounts of energy and contain it without going mad.

Gods come from the mists

Gods can have children as demonstrated by Balthazar having a brother.

The mists are a different realm

This realm holds spirits

This realm also holds energy

Anomalies seem to come from the mists

Anomalies are always in the form of humans and seem to be created by an accumulation of energy.

Humans can go to the mists as spirits and be revived

When there is an excess of energy rifts open up which can lead to the mists

This is all I got so far. It’s looking like a lore inspired by the full metal alchemist manga with a few inspirations from other things. What do you guys think? I know some of you know way more, but i want you all to help put the data into a prediction of how this all works.

The Dragons offspring and lineage introduction is something I found a disappointing addition of. I can understand people liking that aspect and it adding a certain dimension to the lore, but for me, it wasn't needed. Eldritch-style monsters can be allowed to be just that and actually work better when not over-thought and the mysterious backgrounds/lineage of the Dragons was something that worked better in my eyes.

I will amend something though. Dragons are not confirmed to go mad with excess magic. Only Kralkatorrik was shown to be tormented beyond the "evil" he already displayed. We don't know if the others went mad or embraced the power willingly. It is not an unreasonable assumption of course that others could go mad with excess, but as of yet, it is not a rule.

@"Randulf.7614" said:The Dragons offspring and lineage introduction is something I found a disappointing addition of. I can understand people liking that aspect and it adding a certain dimension to the lore, but for me, it wasn't needed. Eldritch-style monsters can be allowed to be just that and actually work better when not over-thought and the mysterious backgrounds/lineage of the Dragons was something that worked better in my eyes.

I will amend something though. Dragons are not confirmed to go mad with excess magic. Only Kralkatorrik was shown to be tormented beyond the "evil" he already displayed. We don't know if the others went mad or embraced the power willingly. It is not an unreasonable assumption of course that others could go mad with excess, but as of yet, it is not a rule.

I believe that they are forced to add structure to the background of dragons since it’s such a big part of the lore. Without explaining dragons then we can’t explain other things that are directly tied to them. Not to mention a solution for killing them. Can’t kill elder dragons if they don’t have a predecessor or a way to maintain the excess magic. They could have run with not killing them and instead just finding ways to battle them and make them dormant again, but they chose the other route.

Why is this closed?

Edit - I guess it's not closed or I couldn't have asked the question.

@MachineManXX.9746 said:Why is this Closed?

It’s not. You just commented. The thing is that when I posted this thread, it posted itself twice. Idk if it’s a problem with my phone or a problem on their end. So since it posted twice they closed one, or merged it. Idk what they did.

@Adry.7512 said:

@MachineManXX.9746 said:Why is this Closed?

They closed the duplicate and moved the original over here (you will get better responses here anyway). It gets confusing because moving a topic causes it to look closed at the original location, but when you click on it there, it auto directs you back here

We don’t actually know if the Gods were human. We know Kormir WAS human before becoming a God, and the wording implies because she is a God she is no longer human.

We’re also not entirely sure if the Gods are from the Mists, we know they came from the Mists to Tyria and reside/resided in domains within the Mists but we don’t know if this was always the case given their history with the humans and saving them from the destruction of their old world.

@ThatOddOne.4387 said:We don’t actually know if the Gods were human. We know Kormir WAS human before becoming a God, and the wording implies because she is a God she is no longer human.

We’re also not entirely sure if the Gods are from the Mists, we know they came from the Mists to Tyria and reside/resided in domains within the Mists but we don’t know if this was always the case given their history with the humans and saving them from the destruction of their old world.

Well the human race was created by the gods. Meaning humans are a spawn of the gods so you can say the gods are the original humans.

@Adry.7512 said:

@ThatOddOne.4387 said:We don’t actually know if the Gods were human. We know Kormir WAS human before becoming a God, and the wording implies because she is a God she is no longer human.

We’re also not entirely sure if the Gods are from the Mists, we know they came from the Mists to Tyria and reside/resided in domains within the Mists but we don’t know if this was always the case given their history with the humans and saving them from the destruction of their old world.

Hmm, were they created by them though? I know they were brought over from a different World by the Gods, but I am unaware of any info on the connection prior to this

@Randulf.7614 said:

@Adry.7512 said:

@ThatOddOne.4387 said:We don’t actually know if the Gods were human. We know Kormir WAS human before becoming a God, and the wording implies because she is a God she is no longer human.

We’re also not entirely sure if the Gods are from the Mists, we know they came from the Mists to Tyria and reside/resided in domains within the Mists but we don’t know if this was always the case given their history with the humans and saving them from the destruction of their old world.

Regardless, what speculations can you gather on the story thus far?

Humans are native to another world. Whether the Gods created them is unknown and unproven. My speculation is that the Gods filled some kind of Elder Dragon-esque role on the old world and saved humanity when things went awry out of guilt/obligation.

@Adry.7512 said:Gods are all humans.

Gods can also absorb massive amounts of energy and contain it without going mad.

Both of these are speculative. And last time I checked, humans don't have wings - four of the gods (Dwayna, Melandru, Abaddon, and Grenth) are sometimes (or always for Dwayna) depicted with wings. They're humanoid, but for all we know, they're otherworldly norn.

We also don't know just how much energy a god could absorb, or if they truly do not go mad over time from this energy absorbed. It may also be that madness from too much magic is a feature of Tyrian magic, and not magic in general. On top of that, we also know of three gods now who went mad over time (Dhuum, Abaddon, Balthazar); and at least Abaddon is known to have had a predecessor as well suggesting a fourth going evil. There is also a prophecy from GW1 suggesting that Kormir, one day, will go insane and try to kill the other gods.

Gods come from the mists

Not really. More accurately, they come from another world and traveled through the Mists.

The mists are a different realm

Not... entirely correct. The Mists is literally the entire multiverse. All existence. Though when Tyrians talk about the Mists, they're usually referring to the afterlives of Tyria.

Anomalies seem to come from the mists

No, they're born from accumulated magic in Tyria. They hold zero relation to the Mists.

Humans can go to the mists as spirits and be revived

Resurrection is a lost art. The Commander's is a very unique situation. Humans cannot normally go into the Mists to be revived, no. Though the Kodan do believe that there is a cycle of reincarnation for all lives.

When there is an excess of energy rifts open up which can lead to the mists

Not on their own, no. A large number of deaths or traversals between Tyria and the Mists can weaken the barrier between the two places, but we've never seen a case where it tears on its own accord.

@Randulf.7614 said:The Dragons offspring and lineage introduction is something I found a disappointing addition of. I can understand people liking that aspect and it adding a certain dimension to the lore, but for me, it wasn't needed. Eldritch-style monsters can be allowed to be just that and actually work better when not over-thought and the mysterious backgrounds/lineage of the Dragons was something that worked better in my eyes.

Nothing prevents eldritch beings from having offspring. As rather proven by Shub-Niggerath. And even Cthulhu has a daughter.

@Adry.7512 said:

@ThatOddOne.4387 said:We don’t actually know if the Gods were human. We know Kormir WAS human before becoming a God, and the wording implies because she is a God she is no longer human.

We’re also not entirely sure if the Gods are from the Mists, we know they came from the Mists to Tyria and reside/resided in domains within the Mists but we don’t know if this was always the case given their history with the humans and saving them from the destruction of their old world.

Humanity was not created by the gods. The gods merely brought humanity to the world of Tyria. We do not know of humanity's origins beyond that. It is possible they were made by the Six, but there's zero confirmation or implication of such.

@Adry.7512 said:

Gods are all humans.

False, Grenth is half-human, and Kormir is a human. The rest we don't know.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Adry.7512 said:Gods are all humans.

IIRC, the information we have is that Dwayna and Melandru are the oldest of the six, and the only original ones. They are also the only two frequently shown as winged humanoids matching the statues and all in the hall of heroes in GW1.

@Kalavier.1097 said:IIRC, the information we have is that Dwayna and Melandru are the oldest of the six, and the only original ones. They are also the only two frequently shown as winged humanoids matching the statues and all in the hall of heroes in GW1.

That's speculation, technically. We're told that Melandru is the eldest god, and Dwayna is the leader of the gods, but there's nothing to say whether or not they're original gods or not.

Utopia was to delve into the subject, and there was mention of Dwayna's father, which implies either a) Dwayna's not born a god either, or b) there's not a restriction on the number of gods. Of course, that's non-canon but it shows what mentality Anet had on the gods.

As to Melandru having wings - this depiction is only in the GW1 statue, which has become less numerous; Grenth is only depicted with wings in one mural (the most common of them), and Abaddon is stated to have had oceanic-blue wings before his fall from grace that ended with his body's destruction (though the pre-fall statue of him doesn't show these wings, interestingly).

Anomalies aren’t always human though. The Skyscale is an anomaly isn’t it? It’s a being that just manifested from the mists.

I still like the idea that harpies are related to Dwayna and propose that Largos have a similar relation to Abaddon.

@"cptaylor.2670" said:Anomalies aren’t always human though. The Skyscale is an anomaly isn’t it? It’s a being that just manifested from the mists.

I think you're mistaking anomalies with anomalies.

Skyscales are an (arguably) unheard of occurrence thus an "anomaly" in the traditional sense of the word, but the anomalies the OP refers to as are the humanoid elementals formed from overflowing ley-lines (no relation to the Mists though).

I think we will see further revelations about magi-physics describing the relationship between magic, will and reality. Magi-physics is too important to the story and needs to be more fully rendered.

We know magic is physco-reactive. It permeates reality, Tyria and The Mists, as tangible energy. The Mists are also protomatter. What would our reality be like if dark energy and matter were physco-reactive? The very reality would depend on will, agenda, consciousness. There would be willful elements such as fire and steel, willful concepts such as strength, heal, steal, willful places. Tyria would be an entangled topography of physco-reactive magic and regular matter and energy, The All. Elder Dragons and possibly the Six, are the dominate knot, will, tying that topography into a stable whole. Perhaps Aurene's existence will allow retying the knot. We may see some exciting changes to Tyria.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Abaddon is stated to have had oceanic-blue wings before his fall from grace that ended with his body's destruction (though the pre-fall statue of him doesn't show these wings, interestingly).

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:There is also a prophecy from GW1 suggesting that Kormir, one day, will go insane and try to kill the other gods.

I 'm curious about this, do you know where I can find this informations?

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:Anomalies aren’t always human though. The Skyscale is an anomaly isn’t it? It’s a being that just manifested from the mists.

Overflowing Tyrian Leylines creating a Humanoid Elemental indicates that the Mother of Kralkatorrik may infact be a God... The Elder Dragons may just be the failsafe of the Tyrian God to regulate Magic without the Tyrian God going insane like Balthazar(the strongest of Gods who had no qualms towards grabbing every Elder Dragon's Magic for himself), Abaddon(who was capable of beating two Gods at once) and Dhuum did!

Perhaps all Tyrian Gods have a The All connected to their specific Realm of the Gods! The Realm of Torment even resembles The All! That might mean that Mad King Thorn, Desmina, Dhuum and Palawa Joko are practically "Elder Dragons" connected to Grenth(with 2 more "Elder Dragons" yet undiscovered) and that Menzies is for practical reasons an "Elder Dragon" to Balthazar who already consumed all his other "Elder Dragons" except the Forest Lord and went mad!

@Gifter.7053 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Abaddon is stated to have had oceanic-blue wings before his fall from grace that ended with his body's destruction (though the pre-fall statue of him doesn't show these wings, interestingly).

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:There is also a prophecy from GW1 suggesting that Kormir, one day, will go insane and try to kill the other gods.

For the wings bitFor the prophecy

@"Mickey Frogeater.1470" said:Overflowing Tyrian Leylines creating a Humanoid Elemental indicates that the Mother of Kralkatorrik may infact be a God...

I don't see how this is at all related. Firstly, elementals are nothing akin to gods, and secondly, nothing says gods must be humanoid.

The Elder Dragons may just be the failsafe of the Tyrian God to regulate Magic without the Tyrian God going insane like Balthazar(the strongest of Gods who had no qualms towards grabbing every Elder Dragon's Magic for himself), Abaddon(who was capable of beating two Gods at once) and Dhuum did!

Elder Dragons and gods are on par to each other, your suggestion would imply a god who is as powerful as six such beings.

Perhaps all Tyrian Gods have a The All connected to their specific Realm of the Gods! The Realm of Torment even resembles The All! That might mean that Mad King Thorn, Desmina, Dhuum and Palawa Joko are practically "Elder Dragons" connected to Grenth(with 2 more "Elder Dragons" yet undiscovered) and that Menzies is for practical reasons an "Elder Dragon" to Balthazar who already consumed all his other "Elder Dragons" except the Forest Lord and went mad!

The Realm of Torment map isn't that similar to The All. It's just a series of alchemy circles (like all Tyrian-made maps of the Mists are) which connects various locations. But beyond that, there's really no similarity. Where The All has one central figure (Tyria), the Realm of Torment map has four (Gate of Torment, Abaddon's Gate, Gate of Anguish, The Shadow Nexus).

And trying to compare Thorn and Desmina to Elder Dragons seems just silly. There's really no similarity. And this goes tripple for Dhuum (who would be more akin to Kralkatorrik to Grenth's Aurene, than an Elder Dragon to some supreme being) or Joko (who has zero relation to Grenth at all - same as Thorn, really). And Balthazar didn't consume other beings either - as far as we know - his Eternals were turned into Forged. The reasoning given for Balthazar's manchild personality change was boredom.

It also doesn't really make much sense to me for the "god realms" to be truly tied to the Six Gods. All indication points to the afterlifes (aka "god realms") being tied to Tyria, and the Six Gods are decidedly not Tyrian as we all well know. If the afterlives held some relation to it all, one would think it would be connected to the Elder Dragons who are tied to Tyria as well as the afterlives. The Six seem to have just been... house guests who stayed too long, to me.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:Anomalies aren’t always human though. The Skyscale is an anomaly isn’t it? It’s a being that just manifested from the mists.

Now that I think about it, yes they aren’t related to the mists.