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Remove global attunement CD when flip flopping (and other much needed changes)


Grimreaper.5370

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EDIT: This is strictly an SPVP perspective

So for example, you're in Fire/Earth and you swap to Earth/Fire, no global cd triggers, or at least a reduced global cd takes place. (traits that could be exploited from such a change would have to be looked into ofc)

I think we need more incentive to enter pure attunements as well. Unless you plan on making unravel an f5 or buffing it making it a worthy utility skill the damage coming from pure sword 3 (fire, air, and earth) are alright but they usually don't have enough of an incentive to wait an additional global attunement cd when you're being pressured by a competent player.Suggestions:-Unravel becomes f5-Unravel stays a utility skill and is buffed to provide other properties making it a worth while utility-Pure sword 3 skills are buffed to provide some form of clutch defense as well.

Sword autos need to be 1/2 1/2 1/2, a 3/4 swing is just simply too slow on a 130 ranged weapon.

Sword air 2 needs to be instant for clutch play, with out traits its only a teleport daze with almost no damage, 1/2 cast time is too long to reactively benefit from the interrupt more often than not.

Overall I believe Weaver should be balanced around a much higher APM playstyle, the current global attunement cd is leaving the weaver feeling too clunky.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:If they put Unravel to F5 I'll be seeking a refund on PoF. I like classes with advanced mechanics.

Making Unravel an F5 is not dumbing down the class mechanically, its making access to pure 3 weapon skills relevant since there is not a ton of incentive to full attune at this moment in time, currently you're being punished by full attuning more times than not. (When considering you may need to clutch access defensive offhand skills to stand any chance vs competent players)

You could argue that it allows you to weave the way you need to in a shorter amount of time so there is less preemptive thinking, but this is already possible by taking unravel and its obviously not putting the weaver in a position of power.

Elementalist requires clutch use of defensive skills in order to survive, what do you suggest if not unravel f5?

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@Grimreaper.5370 said:Making Unravel an F5 is not dumbing down the class mechanically, its making access to pure 3 weapon skills relevant since there is not a ton of incentive to full attune at this moment in time, currently you're being punished by full attuning more times than not.

No, you are not.

Elemental Polyphony : Gain attributes based on your current attunement. When dual attuned, gain both benefits.

Elements of Rage : Gain a damage bonus for a period of time when attuned to a single element. Gain ferocity based on a percentage of your power.

Primordial Stance : Channel the prime elements at their core, dealing damage based on your current attunements. Fully attuning deals the same condition twice.

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@lLobo.7960 said:

@Grimreaper.5370 said:Making Unravel an F5 is not dumbing down the class mechanically, its making access to pure 3 weapon skills relevant since there is not a ton of incentive to full attune at this moment in time, c
urrently you're being punished by full attuning more times than not
.

No, you are not.

: Gain attributes based on your current attunement.
When dual attuned, gain both benefits.

:
Gain a damage bonus for a period of time when attuned to a single element
. Gain ferocity based on a percentage of your power.

: Channel the prime elements at their core, dealing damage based on your current attunements. F
ully attuning deals the same condition twice
.

I know there are "benefits" to full attuning ILobo, the reason I say you're being punished is because you're taking a huge risk which many times will not pay off and leave you unable to access off hand defensive skills when you need them much sooner than the 7-8 seconds you may potentially be locked out. I'm strictly looking at this from an SPVP perspective.

What are your suggestions if not unravel f5?

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If you need defensive skills you can:With sword:

  • earth 2 is an evade,
  • water 2 is an evade,

With dagger:

  • fire/water is an evade,
  • water/earth is an evade,

You also have an evade stance

So yea, your offhand defensive skills are harder to get to, but you do have options on your main hand and they are not that hard to get to.Weaver is still quite new and I think people are still figuring out good rotations for pvp/wvw.

I don't think it needs a f5.

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it might not need f5, but holy some of the skills are way too weak. why does the fire 2 leap seem as if its a stationary skill, should be changed from 3/4 to 1/2, and from 450 range to 600 range. why are all of the auto attacks 3/4? why is a weaver's 1h sword auto attack SLOWER than a warriors 2h sword auto attack? the autos are really slow and bad, every chain has to be 1/2. and yes, sword 2 air leap should be instant cast. dual attuned water is a useless skill, and earth/water dual skill should be an instant cast, instead of a 3/4 channel into a long cast.

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People have been through that.I know it, I wanted that feature after playing weaver during the beta.But now, I feel we’re okay.Really guys, I’m not even using the arcana line and I can keep up with some SB out there without the restoration signet and I’m not as talended as some weaver out there. We’re gonna be daijoubu !

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@Hana.8143 said:People have been through that.I know it, I wanted that feature after playing weaver during the beta.But now, I feel we’re okay.Really guys, I’m not even using the arcana line and I can keep up with some SB out there without the restoration signet and I’m not as talended as some weaver out there. We’re gonna be daijoubu !

Top tier play is all about fast reactions and clutch plays.

Weaver by design encourages you to preemptively decide upon abilities while the game at the highest level requires you to play reactively or die, and since a lot of our defense we need clutch access to is on focus, we are not okay in our current state. Something has to change.

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Think I made my peace with the global cd, though it could be lowered a bit (3 seconds maybe base), or have it as is, but significantly lower the cd of fully attuning after switching (1.5-2 seconds maybe?)

I really wish they made fresh air not trigger the global cooldown though. Since weaver fresh air doesn't really play well with getting global CD on every crit basically.

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@Grimreaper.5370 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:If they put Unravel to F5 I'll be seeking a refund on PoF. I like classes with advanced mechanics.

Making Unravel an F5 is not dumbing down the class mechanically, its making access to pure 3 weapon skills relevant since there is not a ton of incentive to full attune at this moment in time, currently you're being punished by full attuning more times than not. (When considering you may need to clutch access defensive offhand skills to stand any chance vs competent players)

You could argue that it allows you to weave the way you need to in a shorter amount of time so there is less preemptive thinking, but this is already possible by taking unravel and its obviously not putting the weaver in a position of power.

Elementalist requires clutch use of defensive skills in order to survive, what do you suggest if not unravel f5?

I suggest taking the utility if you want to dual attune. Putting Unravel to F5 IS dumbing down the class because you take away thinking of what you may need next and try to just rely on reflexes (or clutch as you say), playing Ele is sometimes like playing chess, requiring you to actively think a few steps ahead and Weaver delivered perfectly on raising the skill floor because of this. There are times when I go to point and I've already got my Defensive Attunement in my main hand ready to swap into offhand depending on what attunement I'll need next but the point is, I've thought about possible outcomes and went into the engagement prepared. Best tip I can give to help out is, put earth in your main hand before every engagement so that way if you need defensive you can pick water as your next attunement, if you need damage you can take fire as your next attunement, if you want to dual attune you can pick earth again and so on.

I understand what you mean about needing defences on clutch, but I hope you understand what I mean about pre-planning your engagement and playing chess, it just happens you prefer clutch and I prefer chess. So to me, it is training wheels, lowering the skill floor or dumbing down the class, how ever you wish to say it.

TLDR: You like clutch based play, I like Chess based play. Weaver delivered on Chess based play for me and your suggestion takes away my fun from the class hence why I would seek refund. This is a PvP SW/D perspective, which is why I usually engage on Earth main hand so if things spike quicly, its water 2 evade followed up with double blast.

If we were still in ESL and ESL worthy, I would have a different opinion but for now this game is made for our enjoyment.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Grimreaper.5370 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:If they put Unravel to F5 I'll be seeking a refund on PoF. I like classes with advanced mechanics.

Making Unravel an F5 is not dumbing down the class mechanically, its making access to pure 3 weapon skills relevant since there is not a ton of incentive to full attune at this moment in time, currently you're being punished by full attuning more times than not. (When considering you may need to clutch access defensive offhand skills to stand any chance vs competent players)

You could argue that it allows you to weave the way you need to in a shorter amount of time so there is less preemptive thinking, but this is already possible by taking unravel and its obviously not putting the weaver in a position of power.

Elementalist requires clutch use of defensive skills in order to survive, what do you suggest if not unravel f5?

I suggest taking the utility if you want to dual attune. Putting Unravel to F5 IS dumbing down the class because you take away thinking of what you may need next and try to just rely on reflexes (or clutch as you say), playing Ele is sometimes like playing chess, requiring you to actively think a few steps ahead and Weaver delivered perfectly on raising the skill floor because of this. There are times when I go to point and I've already got my Defensive Attunement in my main hand ready to swap into offhand depending on what attunement I'll need next but the point is, I've thought about possible outcomes and went into the engagement prepared. Best tip I can give to help out is, put earth in your main hand before every engagement so that way if you need defensive you can pick water as your next attunement, if you need damage you can take fire as your next attunement, if you want to dual attune you can pick earth again and so on.

I understand what you mean about needing defences on clutch, but I hope you understand what I mean about pre-planning your engagement and playing chess, it just happens you prefer clutch and I prefer chess. So to me, it is training wheels, lowering the skill floor or dumbing down the class, how ever you wish to say it.

TLDR: You like clutch based play, I like Chess based play. Weaver delivered on Chess based play for me and your suggestion takes away my fun from the class hence why I would seek refund. This is a PvP SW/D perspective, which is why I usually engage on Earth main hand so if things spike quicly, its water 2 evade followed up with double blast.

If we were still in ESL and ESL worthy, I would have a different opinion but for now this game is made for our enjoyment.

Pre-planning your engagement?....I fail to visualise the ideaYou're simply using fixed rotations...that's not pre-planning where everything goes as you plan, what you describe virtually never happens.At high levels, players use given strategies to bait CD...you can't bait anything when your skills do low dmg, can't reach or simply take a long time to activate/reload, people will simply roll you down.

I literally ignore weavers, I stand in their line of attack..while facing other np, their dmg is that low and predictable...once the main target is down ..I turn and down the weaver in 2-3s, you can earth/water all you like....you are no threat and that's what need to change and what people here are asking for

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Grimreaper.5370 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:If they put Unravel to F5 I'll be seeking a refund on PoF. I like classes with advanced mechanics.

Making Unravel an F5 is not dumbing down the class mechanically, its making access to pure 3 weapon skills relevant since there is not a ton of incentive to full attune at this moment in time, currently you're being punished by full attuning more times than not. (When considering you may need to clutch access defensive offhand skills to stand any chance vs competent players)

You could argue that it allows you to weave the way you need to in a shorter amount of time so there is less preemptive thinking, but this is already possible by taking unravel and its obviously not putting the weaver in a position of power.

Elementalist requires clutch use of defensive skills in order to survive, what do you suggest if not unravel f5?

I suggest taking the utility if you want to dual attune. Putting Unravel to F5 IS dumbing down the class because you take away thinking of what you may need next and try to just rely on reflexes (or clutch as you say), playing Ele is sometimes like playing chess, requiring you to actively think a few steps ahead and Weaver delivered perfectly on raising the skill floor because of this. There are times when I go to point and I've already got my Defensive Attunement in my main hand ready to swap into offhand depending on what attunement I'll need next but the point is, I've thought about possible outcomes and went into the engagement prepared. Best tip I can give to help out is, put earth in your main hand before every engagement so that way if you need defensive you can pick water as your next attunement, if you need damage you can take fire as your next attunement, if you want to dual attune you can pick earth again and so on.

I understand what you mean about needing defences on clutch, but I hope you understand what I mean about pre-planning your engagement and playing chess, it just happens you prefer clutch and I prefer chess. So to me, it is training wheels, lowering the skill floor or dumbing down the class, how ever you wish to say it.

TLDR: You like clutch based play, I like Chess based play. Weaver delivered on Chess based play for me and your suggestion takes away my fun from the class hence why I would seek refund. This is a PvP SW/D perspective, which is why I usually engage on Earth main hand so if things spike quicly, its water 2 evade followed up with double blast.

If we were still in ESL and ESL worthy, I would have a different opinion but for now this game is made for our enjoyment.

Pre-planning your engagement?....I fail to visualise the ideaYou're simply using fixed rotations...that's not pre-planning where everything goes as you plan, what you describe virtually never happens.At high levels, players use given strategies to bait CD...
you can't bait anything when your skills do low dmg, can't reach or simply take a long time to activate/reload
, people will simply roll you down.

I literally ignore weavers, I stand in their line of attack..while facing other np, their dmg is that low and predictable...once the main target is down ..I turn and down the weaver in 2-3s, you can earth/water all you like....
you are no threat
and that's what need to change and what people here are asking for

You can fail to visualise as much you want and I don't use fixed rotations. Like I said, Weaver is like playing chess for me and that's what I enjoy and I waited on buying the expansion to make sure the class had a raised skill floor first hence my original comment. Pre-planning engagements doesn't take much thought either as long as you stick to the basics such as having condi cleanse 1 rotation away before engaging a necro or having your earth in main slot ready for invulns if you take a focus and want to fight a Warrior.

There's been times in WvW where DE get the best of me and I fumble my rotations and get spiked, not once have I ever said "if only i had unravel on F5"... I've always said "HOLY F WHERE DID HE COME FROM" which means I wasn't paying enough attention to my surroundings.

But like I said, we all enjoy different things, different playstyles and I love the way Anet delivered on Weaver, they put the product out and I bought it, my only gripe is sword in needing of tweaks.

Also as to what's being asked, my only objection was unravel to F5.. I think it's a great idea to have no ICD between flip flopping attunements and the other suggestions made especially in regards to sword buffs.

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My new proposed changes:

-1/2 1/4 1/2 on all sword autos (Can reduce dmg of second swing if needed)-range buff to 200 minimum-Global attunement CD from base 4 seconds to 3-Flip flopping attunements (Example: Fire/Earth to Earth/Fire) only puts those two attunements on cd)-Sword air 2 (Polaric Leap) instant cast for clutch interrupt purposes-Master's Fortitude +150 vit +150 healing (Since weaver must run offensive amulet to push decent damage in SPVP)-Woven Stride (Remove regen and grant 1 condition removed when gaining swiftness/super speed, so we may drop water line)-Aqua Siphon (Pure sword water 3) 1/2 swing speed and removes 2 conditions upon impact-Shearing Edge (Air/water sword 3) pulls target to you-Sword fire 2 (Flame Uprising) Range buffed from 450 to 600, add evade frames-Sword water 2 (Riptide) Increase water field radius so that immediately dodging backward after use will allow you to land a blast finisher with in it-Unravel reworked; instead of lasting 5 seconds it grants one pure attunement swap for no global CD

Off hand Dagger wish list:

-Churning Earth is reworked to provide less offense and compensated by adding reflect during the channel-Earth Quake, Add evade frames-Fire Grab 1/2 cast time

This hopefully allows oh dagger to compete with focus

With the current design of weaver it requires you to take the air line and equip an offensive amulet if you hope to do any damage, this is fine, this is how it should be. But because of this it needs these changes to compete.

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@Grimreaper.5370 said:My new proposed changes:

-Churning Earth is reworked to provide less offense and compensated by adding reflect during the channel

With the current design of weaver it requires you to take the air line and equip an offensive amulet if you hope to do any damage, this is fine, this is how it should be. But because of this it needs these changes to compete.

How about instead of lowering offence they keep it the same AND add the reflect. Churning Earth is one of hardest hitting skills and can be used quite well with Lightning Flash and some Instant Cast abilities, otherwise yes, good suggestions especially on condition removals with swiftness, I long for the day we get to drop Water.

EDIT: Maybe churning earth could destroy projectiles given that the skill would cause fragments of the earth to lift from the ground, seems to make sense logically. Then it got me thinking the same could be done for Rock Barrier on Scepter but for that one, each projectile would destroy 1 rock from your barrier... It would certainly help core builds too.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Grimreaper.5370 said:My new proposed changes:

-Churning Earth is reworked to provide less offense and compensated by adding reflect during the channel

With the current design of weaver it requires you to take the air line and equip an offensive amulet if you hope to do any damage, this is fine, this is how it should be. But because of this it needs these changes to compete.

How about instead of lowering offence they keep it the same AND add the reflect. Churning Earth is one of hardest hitting skills and can be used quite well with Lightning Flash and some Instant Cast abilities, otherwise yes, good suggestions especially on condition removals with swiftness, I long for the day we get to drop Water.

EDIT: Maybe churning earth could destroy projectiles given that the skill would cause fragments of the earth to lift from the ground, seems to make sense logically. Then it got me thinking the same could be done for Rock Barrier on Scepter but for that one, each projectile would destroy 1 rock from your barrier... It would certainly help core builds too.

I mean, I wouldn't mind, I just want to try and be reasonable with Anet. If they just flat out added reflect to it or it ate projectiles while casting it I think that would be reasonable personally

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@Grimreaper.5370 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Grimreaper.5370 said:My new proposed changes:

-Churning Earth is reworked to provide less offense and compensated by adding reflect during the channel

With the current design of weaver it requires you to take the air line and equip an offensive amulet if you hope to do any damage, this is fine, this is how it should be. But because of this it needs these changes to compete.

How about instead of lowering offence they keep it the same AND add the reflect. Churning Earth is one of hardest hitting skills and can be used quite well with Lightning Flash and some Instant Cast abilities, otherwise yes, good suggestions especially on condition removals with swiftness, I long for the day we get to drop Water.

EDIT: Maybe churning earth could destroy projectiles given that the skill would cause fragments of the earth to lift from the ground, seems to make sense logically. Then it got me thinking the same could be done for Rock Barrier on Scepter but for that one, each projectile would destroy 1 rock from your barrier... It would certainly help core builds too.

I mean, I wouldn't mind, I just want to try and be reasonable with Anet. If they just flat out added reflect to it or it ate projectiles while casting it I think that would be reasonable personally

Well pretty much all of your suggestions sounded reasonable given the current state of other classes.

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