Do you think FoTM is good enough to not have new world dungeon content?

Simple question with a simple answer. Feel free to elaborate in comments.

I do not. They are good but I would really like A.net to at least make a new dungeon once in awhile. I understand their hesitance to tinker with what we have but it should not stop them from creating new ones.

Fractals - no matter how good they ever hope to be - split the community.

Not even just between 'casual and hardcore' like dungeons vs. raids do in most other MMOs.

But within this... everybody ends up at a different level on the Fractal chain, with different amounts of AR on different characters, and so on...

When you look through LFG... finding a group that all is at your level, and willing to do the fractal that will level you up... gets challenging. And not doing a Fractal that benefits you will feel like you are 'carrying those other people' - even if you're in low level fractals and the other people are just a few below you...

Other MMOs these days put out several Dungeons a year. Let's leave WoW and it's slow-as-heck content pace off the table for a moment because an MMO should never try to compete with WoW. WoW gets away with what it gets away with because we all have 10-12 year toons there that we eventually feel the itch to log in and look at again...

MMOs that actually have to put out content to keep their players...

You're talking games like ESO, FFXIV, GW2, Neverwinter, Wildstar, and so on...Some of these fail at it (Wildstar - love the game, but their budget now has them unable to do much), and some of them absurdly excel at it (ESO - they put out new dungeons at a pace that is just silly). Others fall in between.

Guild Wars 2 has managed to get a stable playerbase... so I guess they're not longer "working it" to keep people around... but if they ever did want to grow, they'd need to do something about the fact that there have been no new Dungeons since 2013 when competitors have put out 4-8 dungeons a year...

• Look at the list of dungeons of FFXIV and ESO:ESO: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Group_DungeonsFFXIV: https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Dungeons

Even F2P Neverwinter:Neverwinter: https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Dungeon

Compared to here:GW2: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dungeon

In this regard, GW2 looks like an MMO on lifesupport... The only other MMOs doing this poorly is Wildstar: https://wildstar.gamepedia.com/Dungeon , and they have a reason... that game's entire budget is less than most of us's average rent... (OK, maybe not that bad, but it's basically a game only still around because it's so good and such a labor of love, they're giving it a pass).

This is an embarrassing statistic for Guild Wars 2.

I don't see why they can't co-exist. Adding a dungeon or two just adds a different experience/way to play. Especially on the new maps there is so much dungeon potential it's insane.

@Einlanzer.1627 said:Simple question with a simple answer. Feel free to elaborate in comments.

Yea, Fractals are fine. They're a good ramp-up to raiding; and they provide good loot for the effort. Plus everybody is concentrated in the same section of LFG instead of being spread out over multiple sections. And everybody is (roughly) segregated by skill-level and experience... where new players have a no-pressure environment to learn; and the most hardcore people can require titles, pots and firstborn children to join. So I don't care if they ever make another dungeon. But they really need to get on the ball about making new fractals. The current ~16 are getting VERRRRY stale. And I cant understand why they're so slow about realeasing more.

PoF was the perfect opportunity to chuck a half dozen more fractals at us. But nope... we're still grinding out the ole' Snowblind, and Aquatic for the 1000th time. :# :/ apparently they've given up on dungeons to... do vitually nothing with fractals.

It's not a matter of good or not. They're not in the real world and therefore dungeons and fractals have different roles, though highly similar gameplay. I'd be happy with normal fractal releases and a dungeon with 2-4 paths each xpac, though I wouldn't complain about more

The new fractal content has been top notch, so before PoF I would have said "dungeons are dead, long live fractals." However as I explored the fabulous desert I must admit I would have loved to find a dungeon and get that story/exploration/group of adventurers experience that only a dungeon connected to the world can provide. I did not get this feeling with HoT (but it did launch with a similar feeling with Dragon's Stand).

Dungeons might not be exactly what I was hungering for but I did want a something similar, one of my favourite parts of the expansion was the Dwarven Delve which is totally disconnected from the story (and it was a brilliant move to place this far away from any story, really gave you a feeling of exciting discovery). I would have loved some meaty group content that took a while to complete and had some challenging content, which I think is the one point the expansion was slightly weak on. I would have been happy with a Dragon's Stand type progression through a hostile environment in the open world or a dungeon, though a dungeon benefits from story too.

There are many posts like this already. I don't feel that anyone has satisfactorily explained the difference between 'fractals' and 'dungeons'. They are both 5-person instanced content. The main difference to ANet is that one requires more infrastructure to support, update, and add and the other requires less.

Since I don't see a distinction, the question makes little sense to me: we already have dungeon content; it's just called fractals.

Fractals are great and a ton of fun, but they don't have the same feeling as the original dungeon paths. I miss having a more cohesive story as you're going through a dungeon as opposed to the discrete snippets of lore in each fractal. I just wish they'd both be added to.

Fractals are more like "Dps race to the end and kill it, know the mechanics" in other words raid training.

Dungeons are by far different and can be FOR everyone and meant to be completed BY everyone which is a huge difference as raids are meant for the small playerbase (which I am apart of) who do them. Fractals have never been enough nor will they be enough, I never liked them to begin with and was sad to find out that dungeons would not continue on alongside us.

Dungeons can lead to fractals, and fractals can lead to raiding? I dont see the issue with this. However we do need NEW dungeons because the old ones dont have the newer mechanics, so just make new ones with the current level of gameplay and stuff that we have going on. The old ones were ok for 2013 but they are obsolete now and most people can solo them... So bring out some new story dungeons that are tied to the world. Ones we can REALLY sink our teeth into with real explorable paths...

@Kichwas.7152 said:In this regard, GW2 looks like an MMO on lifesupport... The only other MMOs doing this poorly is Wildstar: https://wildstar.gamepedia.com/Dungeon , and they have a reason... that game's entire budget is less than most of us's average rent... (OK, maybe not that bad, but it's basically a game only still around because it's so good and such a labor of love, they're giving it a pass).

This is an embarrassing statistic for Guild Wars 2.

Guild Wars 2 was never designed to be a "dungeon-focused" game, so why would you judge the success of the game by counting the number of instanced group content it has? If the game was on life support, how are we getting free content every few months, complete with voice acting, dialogue, specialized story instances, animation, etc.? Is 11 million MMO players considered "life support" these days?

No. I love Fractals, but I miss delving into a dungeon for more than just dungeon runes and zerker armor that I don't need to craft.

Dungeons also each have their own sets of armor and weapons and/or recolored weapons, meaning we'd get a whole new set of those for each dungeon added.Reeeeally looking forward to this.

The problem with fractals is that they are repeatable only once per day by account and they are alt-unfriendly because it requires me to have ascended gear. Dungeon does not require me to have ascended gear.

@Kichwas.7152 said:This is an embarrassing statistic for Guild Wars 2.

I don't know which statistic you are looking at but Guild Wars 2 added 3 new fractals in just one year and there is good reason to believe that's going to be their release schedule.

Fun fact: This is the 4th poll by the same OP that contains a "please work on more dungeons" option

Dungeons are dead, let them RIP already

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:There are many posts like this already. I don't feel that anyone has satisfactorily explained the difference between 'fractals' and 'dungeons'. They are both 5-person instanced content. The main difference to ANet is that one requires more infrastructure to support, update, and add and the other requires less.

Since I don't see a distinction, the question makes little sense to me: we already have dungeon content; it's just called fractals.

I think it would be cool to have dungeons. In GW, you meet in different outposts, then fight your way to the entrance and then go complete it. We have pretty much the same thing here, except for the instancing outside the dungeons, it would just be nice to have some dungeons spaced out around the world, one per new map introduced, that are themed around that area. They could even build it as a fractal, it would just have a different entrance. I think it's a bit boring to always go to the observatory every time to begin your dungeon/5 man/fractal experience. It is essentially the same thing, it's just more of an "adventure" because it's started in the open world. If they took 10-15mins to complete, that would be great, but they don't need to be long.

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:There are many posts like this already. I don't feel that anyone has satisfactorily explained the difference between 'fractals' and 'dungeons'. They are both 5-person instanced content. The main difference to ANet is that one requires more infrastructure to support, update, and add and the other requires less.

Since I don't see a distinction, the question makes little sense to me: we already have dungeon content; it's just called fractals.

What "adventure"? You can enter a dungeon while anywhere on the zone it is in, if at least one party member has the waypoint next to the entrance.As for why having dungeon entrances in the open world is a bad idea, I'll remind you of Raids when the entrance was in Verdant Brink and all the kind of trouble it caused for everyone. They had to move the Raid entrance to a separate instance so as not to ruin the map. It happened when they added the Molten Facility dungeon back in LS1 as well, the zones it could appear where full of players, making it impossible to play there. It happened when Citadel of Flame was super popular and the rest of Fireheart was a wasteland.

Truth be told, GW as a franchise, has never really had that much instanced content focused on dungeons. They only appeared in EotN and vanilla GW2.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:There are many posts like this already. I don't feel that anyone has satisfactorily explained the difference between 'fractals' and 'dungeons'. They are both 5-person instanced content. The main difference to ANet is that one requires more infrastructure to support, update, and add and the other requires less.

Since I don't see a distinction, the question makes little sense to me: we already have dungeon content; it's just called fractals.

To me, the difference is obvious. Dungeons are longer, more complex, tied to world exploration and the story, and act as extensions to various world environments. Fractals are short/simple and disconnected from the world & story. This essentially makes them less immersive than regular dungeons, and immersion is important in an MMO - especially with instanced content.

Fractals are a great idea for a single large dungeon. They are a terrible idea to take the place of all other dungeons.

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:There are many posts like this already. I don't feel that anyone has satisfactorily explained the difference between 'fractals' and 'dungeons'. They are both 5-person instanced content. The main difference to ANet is that one requires more infrastructure to support, update, and add and the other requires less.

Since I don't see a distinction, the question makes little sense to me: we already have dungeon content; it's just called fractals.

The "adventure" I was referring to was GW having to get to the entrance, not GW2 where you can enter from anywhere on the map.

Hmm yeah that is a good point about players on the maps. Though, you can apply that to world bosses too.

Focusing on fractal is probably the most efficient way for Anet to produce repeatable instanced content. Fractal also has 4 different levels so it can cater to all audience.

However, I feel there is still a lot of wasted potential for dungeons out in the open world. Every living world has story instance that can be made into explorable mode that gives players reason to replay them in a 5-man group. A lot of player are quite into the living world story stuff. Dungeons based on those could attract a lot of audience

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:There are many posts like this already. I don't feel that anyone has satisfactorily explained the difference between 'fractals' and 'dungeons'. They are both 5-person instanced content. The main difference to ANet is that one requires more infrastructure to support, update, and add and the other requires less.

Since I don't see a distinction, the question makes little sense to me: we already have dungeon content; it's just called fractals.

There are two major differences between world bosses and dungeon entrances on maps.a) You can always join the World Boss events but you cannot as easily join a dungeon forming groupb) The bosses are on a set timer so you know when exactly the zone will become filled with people for a while and plan around it

The system worked very well in GW1 because it was an instanced based game. It won't work in GW2 and will only cause more problems, therefore even if they, for some weird reason, add more dungeons to the game, they need a centralized hub to port to them they do not disturb any open world maps. Unless they are dungeons that are not going to be popular and don't attract any players, but who needs those kinds of dungeons anyway

No. I was terribly disappointed in not finding a 5-man dungeon in PoF. It's content like that that expands on the lore and theme of the region and adds replay value with exclusive rewards, i.e.: sets of armor, weapons and more.Fractals, on the other hand, is more about vertical gear progression.

They dont provide the same feel and opportunity for world building story telling as locations in the tyria with relevant characters setting enemies etc.

@Kichwas.7152 said:Fractals - no matter how good they ever hope to be - split the community.

Not even just between 'casual and hardcore' like dungeons vs. raids do in most other MMOs.

But within this... everybody ends up at a different level on the Fractal chain, with different amounts of AR on different characters, and so on...

When you look through LFG... finding a group that all is at your level, and willing to do the fractal that will level you up... gets challenging. And not doing a Fractal that benefits you will feel like you are 'carrying those other people' - even if you're in low level fractals and the other people are just a few below you...

Other MMOs these days put out several Dungeons a year. Let's leave WoW and it's slow-as-heck content pace off the table for a moment because an MMO should never try to compete with WoW. WoW gets away with what it gets away with because we all have 10-12 year toons there that we eventually feel the itch to log in and look at again...

MMOs that actually have to put out content to keep their players...

You're talking games like ESO, FFXIV, GW2, Neverwinter, Wildstar, and so on...Some of these fail at it (Wildstar - love the game, but their budget now has them unable to do much), and some of them absurdly excel at it (ESO - they put out new dungeons at a pace that is just silly). Others fall in between.

Guild Wars 2 has managed to get a stable playerbase... so I guess they're not longer "working it" to keep people around... but if they ever did want to grow, they'd need to do something about the fact that there have been no new Dungeons since 2013 when competitors have put out 4-8 dungeons a year...

• Look at the list of dungeons of FFXIV and ESO:ESO: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Group_DungeonsFFXIV: https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Dungeons

Even F2P Neverwinter:Neverwinter: https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Dungeon

Compared to here:GW2: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dungeon

In this regard, GW2 looks like an MMO on lifesupport... The only other MMOs doing this poorly is Wildstar: https://wildstar.gamepedia.com/Dungeon , and they have a reason... that game's entire budget is less than most of us's average rent... (OK, maybe not that bad, but it's basically a game only still around because it's so good and such a labor of love, they're giving it a pass).

This is an embarrassing statistic for Guild Wars 2.

The dungeons in wow have basically copy pasted the fractal system from gw2. To call that game on lifesupport is hardly true.

@zealex.9410 said:

@Kichwas.7152 said:Fractals - no matter how good they ever hope to be - split the community.

Not even just between 'casual and hardcore' like dungeons vs. raids do in most other MMOs.

But within this... everybody ends up at a different level on the Fractal chain, with different amounts of AR on different characters, and so on...

When you look through LFG... finding a group that all is at your level, and willing to do the fractal that will level you up... gets challenging. And not doing a Fractal that benefits you will feel like you are 'carrying those other people' - even if you're in low level fractals and the other people are just a few below you...

Other MMOs these days put out several Dungeons a year. Let's leave WoW and it's slow-as-heck content pace off the table for a moment because an MMO should never try to compete with WoW. WoW gets away with what it gets away with because we all have 10-12 year toons there that we eventually feel the itch to log in and look at again...

MMOs that actually have to put out content to keep their players...

You're talking games like ESO, FFXIV, GW2, Neverwinter, Wildstar, and so on...Some of these fail at it (Wildstar - love the game, but their budget now has them unable to do much), and some of them absurdly excel at it (ESO - they put out new dungeons at a pace that is just silly). Others fall in between.

Guild Wars 2 has managed to get a stable playerbase... so I guess they're not longer "working it" to keep people around... but if they ever did want to grow, they'd need to do something about the fact that there have been no new Dungeons since 2013 when competitors have put out 4-8 dungeons a year...

• Look at the list of dungeons of FFXIV and ESO:ESO:
  http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Group_Dungeons
  FFXIV:
  https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Dungeons

Even F2P Neverwinter:Neverwinter:

https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Dungeon

Compared to here:GW2:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dungeon

In this regard, GW2 looks like an MMO on lifesupport... The only other MMOs doing this poorly is Wildstar:

https://wildstar.gamepedia.com/Dungeon

, and they have a reason... that game's entire budget is less than most of us's average rent... (OK, maybe not that bad, but it's basically a game only still around because it's so good and such a labor of love, they're giving it a pass).

This is an embarrassing statistic for Guild Wars 2.

Please, not even close. Mythic affixes come from Diablo long before GW2 fractals were a thing. At least try to do some research. And mythic affixes in WoW are much more effectively implemented to alter gameplay. In fractals they're just an inconvenience.