Aurene and the Spirit of Dragon — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Aurene and the Spirit of Dragon

castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

In Hoelbrak there's an NPC called Nikolas Haraldsson who says the following:

(The Sons of Svanir) revere the Spirit of Drago. He encompasses all dragons in the world.

Now we obviously have all the evidence that the sons of svanir think that Jormag is 'Dragon' for all intents and purposes. But could there be an actual spirit of dragon? One that may now have at least some legitimacy in the form of our new elder dragon friend Aurene? I'd assume that even though Glint has exists for over ten thousand years and vlast was chilling in the crystal desert since his birth that their influence was simply too small to have an impact on any sort of dragon spirit that potentially exists, but with the ascension of Aurene as an elder dragon, is that a possibility now?

Or does a Spirit of Dragon simply not exist?

If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. Veterans can make signatures apparently.

Comments

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    I mean, we do know there is a "spirit" of Glint for example. But thats not what sons of svanir worship nor is that the same type of spirit

    Spirits of the wild aren't actually a spirit of a specific, particular, single bear or raven. Rather they are embodiment of specific ideals associated with those animals. So i would say that its unlikely there is "Aurene dragon spirit" out there

    So far as we know there is no Spirit of the Dragon

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I never said that there would be an 'Aurene dragon spirit', the whole question was hinged on the fact that a Spirit of Dragon would encompass all dragons, and that Aurene becoming an Elder Dragon might make such a Spirit of Dragon friendlier to us because she is friendly towards us, because she is now a significantly powerful dragon and as such might have more of an influence on the Spirit of Dragon.

    Regardless though, if there's no Spirit of the Dragon, the question is moot.

    If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. Veterans can make signatures apparently.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well, so far we've seen no evidence of a "Spirit of Dragon" actually existing. Whether or not one does exist, I doubt Aurene's ascension to Elder Dragonhood would affect it much if at all.

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  • The Sons of Svanir worship Jormag, not as one of the Elder Dragons, but because they consider him as "the Dragon", mightiest of all Spirits of the Wild. I think there is really nothing more to understand in what the npc says than that - it's not about it being the truth (there would really be a dragon spirit out there) but about how SoS see the world (they revere something they - and them alone - believe in).
    Same as saying for example "ancient Greeks revered Zeus & co" doesn't mean that there really were gods living on top of mount Olympus.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I've pondered myself whether the rise of Aurene will result as her being used by the mainstream norn to undermine the Sons of Svanir by proposing an 'alternate' Dragon - and a female to add insult to injury!

    I think, though, that there is no one Spirit of Dragon, any more than there is a single Spirit of Human. Instead, through the lens of the norn viewpoint of the world, each Elder Dragon is essentially a 'Spirit' of the domains they represent (similar to how the norn view the Six).

  • Jokubas.4265Jokubas.4265 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 3, 2019

    I was thinking something similar. After Aurene's fate, and after learning the sensitive nature of what the Elder Dragons are involved in, there's a lot of reason to more or less legitimize Dragon, but it would be in a way that would undermine the worst of what the Sons of Svanir stand for. It might be a path to redeem some and make utter fools out of the rest.

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sons of Svanir seem to be able to enter the Mists and attack the spirits of the wild there.

    Considering the Koda say that anything corrupted by Jormag is corrupted 'whole' and not even their souls are left, but we've seen the ghosts of risen expelled from their risen bodies, it would appear that the second 'sphere of power' of Jormag is "Spirit". So Jormag himself could be "Spirit of Dragon", or at least be able to pretty much act like one.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    Sons of Svanir seem to be able to enter the Mists and attack the spirits of the wild there.

    Considering the Koda say that anything corrupted by Jormag is corrupted 'whole' and not even their souls are left, but we've seen the ghosts of risen expelled from their risen bodies, it would appear that the second 'sphere of power' of Jormag is "Spirit". So Jormag himself could be "Spirit of Dragon", or at least be able to pretty much act like one.

    In the personal story, they achieved this by either luring the spirit into the physical realm, or by capturing a havroun and forcing the havroun to open portals for them. Animal spirits appear to have the power to open portals to the Mists - the Elder Dragons do not appear to without hijacking the power of a being that does.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    Sons of Svanir seem to be able to enter the Mists and attack the spirits of the wild there.

    Considering the Koda say that anything corrupted by Jormag is corrupted 'whole' and not even their souls are left, but we've seen the ghosts of risen expelled from their risen bodies, it would appear that the second 'sphere of power' of Jormag is "Spirit". So Jormag himself could be "Spirit of Dragon", or at least be able to pretty much act like one.

    You also have to consider that the Kodan often speak in a slightly biased viewpoint to themselves. It's also a great way to keep the kids from even thinking about looking at Jormag related stuff or talking to Svanir. "Go into that area as a kid, you'll lose your soul!"

    We know that the Risen are reanimated bodies by Zhaitan's power, but that this often ends up enslaving the soul to the body. See the kings and Queens of Orr, trapped in the Eyes of Zhaitan (until those are destroyed). The Priests of the gods are another example, as the Priest of Grenth is killed to return his soul to the underworld.

    However we also know of cases where the Risen body of a dead person is out and wandering about doing dragon minion things, but the soul of said individual is nearby and totally free. There is a dead vigil member in the south-west corner of Mount Maelstrom who you can find her ghost, and she mentions that her body is in the swamp fighting for Zhaitan. There is also Romke and his crew, whose bodies are Risen but their souls free.

    I'd say that with Icebrood, probably a similar situation. The souls are enslaved to the body in most cases, but with groups like Svanir who willingly embrace Jormag and the corruption, their souls are probably also corrupted when they start becoming icebrood.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    Sons of Svanir seem to be able to enter the Mists and attack the spirits of the wild there.

    Considering the Koda say that anything corrupted by Jormag is corrupted 'whole' and not even their souls are left, but we've seen the ghosts of risen expelled from their risen bodies, it would appear that the second 'sphere of power' of Jormag is "Spirit". So Jormag himself could be "Spirit of Dragon", or at least be able to pretty much act like one.

    You also have to consider that the Kodan often speak in a slightly biased viewpoint to themselves. It's also a great way to keep the kids from even thinking about looking at Jormag related stuff or talking to Svanir. "Go into that area as a kid, you'll lose your soul!"

    We know that the Risen are reanimated bodies by Zhaitan's power, but that this often ends up enslaving the soul to the body. See the kings and Queens of Orr, trapped in the Eyes of Zhaitan (until those are destroyed). The Priests of the gods are another example, as the Priest of Grenth is killed to return his soul to the underworld.

    However we also know of cases where the Risen body of a dead person is out and wandering about doing dragon minion things, but the soul of said individual is nearby and totally free. There is a dead vigil member in the south-west corner of Mount Maelstrom who you can find her ghost, and she mentions that her body is in the swamp fighting for Zhaitan. There is also Romke and his crew, whose bodies are Risen but their souls free.

    I'd say that with Icebrood, probably a similar situation. The souls are enslaved to the body in most cases, but with groups like Svanir who willingly embrace Jormag and the corruption, their souls are probably also corrupted when they start becoming icebrood.

    One additional thing about souls being trapped when corrupted is that this happens to branded too:

    Mist Warden Ranger: I'm saying that if I'd been Branded, I wouldn't have let the Crystal Dragon control me like that. He's strong. I'm stronger.
    Mist Warden Spellbreaker: It's not that simple. When you're Branded, you take up arms against the ones you love. You can't resist.
    Mist Warden Ranger: I could. Hardly a warrior's death—serving as your enemy's puppet.
    Mist Warden Spellbreaker: It's why I became a Mist Warden. To maybe...stop someone else from having to do what I did. To suffer as I do.
    Mist Warden Ranger: You were Branded?
    Mist Warden Spellbreaker: Trapped in a body I couldn't control. For years. The Pact finally freed me. Now, here I am.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mist_Warden_Camp#Ambient_dialogue

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  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    Sons of Svanir seem to be able to enter the Mists and attack the spirits of the wild there.

    Considering the Koda say that anything corrupted by Jormag is corrupted 'whole' and not even their souls are left, but we've seen the ghosts of risen expelled from their risen bodies, it would appear that the second 'sphere of power' of Jormag is "Spirit". So Jormag himself could be "Spirit of Dragon", or at least be able to pretty much act like one.

    You also have to consider that the Kodan often speak in a slightly biased viewpoint to themselves. It's also a great way to keep the kids from even thinking about looking at Jormag related stuff or talking to Svanir. "Go into that area as a kid, you'll lose your soul!"

    We know that the Risen are reanimated bodies by Zhaitan's power, but that this often ends up enslaving the soul to the body. See the kings and Queens of Orr, trapped in the Eyes of Zhaitan (until those are destroyed). The Priests of the gods are another example, as the Priest of Grenth is killed to return his soul to the underworld.

    However we also know of cases where the Risen body of a dead person is out and wandering about doing dragon minion things, but the soul of said individual is nearby and totally free. There is a dead vigil member in the south-west corner of Mount Maelstrom who you can find her ghost, and she mentions that her body is in the swamp fighting for Zhaitan. There is also Romke and his crew, whose bodies are Risen but their souls free.

    I'd say that with Icebrood, probably a similar situation. The souls are enslaved to the body in most cases, but with groups like Svanir who willingly embrace Jormag and the corruption, their souls are probably also corrupted when they start becoming icebrood.

    One additional thing about souls being trapped when corrupted is that this happens to branded too:

    Mist Warden Ranger: I'm saying that if I'd been Branded, I wouldn't have let the Crystal Dragon control me like that. He's strong. I'm stronger.
    Mist Warden Spellbreaker: It's not that simple. When you're Branded, you take up arms against the ones you love. You can't resist.
    Mist Warden Ranger: I could. Hardly a warrior's death—serving as your enemy's puppet.
    Mist Warden Spellbreaker: It's why I became a Mist Warden. To maybe...stop someone else from having to do what I did. To suffer as I do.
    Mist Warden Ranger: You were Branded?
    Mist Warden Spellbreaker: Trapped in a body I couldn't control. For years. The Pact finally freed me. Now, here I am.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mist_Warden_Camp#Ambient_dialogue

    So, unless new information comes up the general theme is that becoming a dragon minion does involve you being trapped in the body until freed. Barring Destroyers who rarely corrupt living creatures and just make new ones.

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