More Frequent Balance Updates — Guild Wars 2 Forums

More Frequent Balance Updates

Hey, I decided to make this poll so it is clear whether people would like more of Balance Updates or not.
So, here it is.

Also, what are the pros and cons of changing Balance Update frequency, in your opinion?

More Frequent Balance Updates 216 votes

Yes, we need more frequent Balance Updates
63%
anduriell.6280nottsgman.8206Jski.6180Allarius.5670LucianDK.8615Krispera.5087Strages.2950IndigoSundown.5419Glider.5792blambidy.3216KryTiKaL.3125Ertrak.9506Stand The Wall.6987Curunen.8729Oldyoung.6109zealex.9410Einlanzer.1627TakeCare.3182Mastermavrick.2439Nimrod.9240 137 votes
No, we don't need more Balance Updates
24%
WhatLiesBeneath.9018Cerioth.7062Haishao.6851Fenom.9457Rauderi.8706Loosmaster.8263Arden.7480Inculpatus cedo.9234Ayrilana.1396Randulf.7614Blude.6812Doam.8305kurfu.5623Obtena.7952Elothar.4382catalyst.1358FrizzFreston.5290Mil.3562linamaria.1830Frostfang.5109 53 votes
Other (write below)
12%
Endless Soul.5178starhunter.6015Vlad Morbius.1759MithranArkanere.8957Ashen.2907Westenev.5289Sarrs.4831Ben K.6238TheBravery.9615DonArkanio.6419Kodokuna Akuma.9570Ayakaru.6583LadyKitty.6120Dreamy Lu.3865Widmo.3186Brother.1504Edelweiss.4261Nath Forge Tempete.1645Tzarakiel.7490Rico.6873 26 votes
<1345

Comments

  • lisica.6583lisica.6583 Member ✭✭
    Other (write below)

    I like it the way it is now, thanks

  • Hynax.9536Hynax.9536 Member ✭✭
    No, we don't need more Balance Updates

    if you check the Category: Balance Updates on the wiki I believe we get them quite frequently actually.
    I mean what is the point of changing class skills and mechanics every month? You have to change and give time for people to theorycraft and optmize with the new features. If you keep changing things every month only players with full legendary set would be able to keep up and enjoy every patch.
    And remember that we generally need a lot of hotfixes after a balance update because our comunity is great in finding broken/exploitable traits/skills combos.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, we need more frequent Balance Updates

    Ofc we do, the more the better, luckily anet has improved on that front over the last couple years, still tho its not enough.

    Iirc between lw its supposed to be 2 balance updates? 3 would be amazing so like a balance patch one a month.

  • Lala.8752Lala.8752 Member ✭✭
    Yes, we need more frequent Balance Updates

    when was the last balance patch lmao

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, we don't need more Balance Updates

    In April, though there was a very small one in May.

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, we don't need more Balance Updates

    The next patch/release is expected in 2 weeks. (Not sure why you were expecting one today, only one week after the last release.)

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2, 2019
    Yes, we need more frequent Balance Updates

    Fast frequent changes gives the ability to apply more smaller changes that are less risky (window to next release is much smaller)

    Big patches are poor, big patches are slow. Mature devops supports fast releases, weak devops do not. Waterfall v agile in a nutshell.

    Take Google as an example, millions of uses, high profile, breaks in algorithms could cost millions. Google can and frequently does deploy changes every DAY

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Endless Soul.5178Endless Soul.5178 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (write below)

    I voted "other" simply because I could not care less about balance updates as I barely Wvw, and do not PvP at all.

    Asura characters: Zerina | Myndee | Bekka | Akee | Feyyt | Nuumy | Tylee | Rissa | Jaxxi | Sixx | Claara | Conii | Jymm | Synn

    Your skin will wrinkle and your youth will fade but your soul is endless

  • I am 99% sure that ANet would like to offer more balance updates, too. The question is: how do they pay for it, given the resource limitations and plans that they already have?

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Vlad Morbius.1759Vlad Morbius.1759 Member ✭✭✭
    Other (write below)

    What we need is more communication prior to locking changes in then maybe we can get some real balance!

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, we need more frequent Balance Updates

    In my opinion there's so much stuff to balance/fix/redesign on every class that balance updates can never be frequent enough!

    The current pace is still glacially slow for all the stuff that ought to be done, so personally I would want to see smaller regular balance updates every month.

    IH hybrid | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (write below)

    Frequent does not mean better.

  • Rauderi.8706Rauderi.8706 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, we don't need more Balance Updates

    This isn't a moba. Changes to the meta mean changes to gear, which gets bothersome to constantly keep up with. It's also unwise to change skills during a competitive season. We see tweaks every 3 or so months, and there have been some major updates once or twice in a year.

    Still waiting on that Deadeye F3 button, though. The Stealth attack just is not working.

    Many alts! Handle it!

    "A condescending answer might as well not be an answer at all."
    -Eloc Freidon.5692

  • Zephyr.5382Zephyr.5382 Member ✭✭✭
    No, we don't need more Balance Updates

    With the current method of balancing? Heck no. Thankfully, with 29 alts, I'm more resilient to these...disturbances.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 3, 2019
    No, we don't need more Balance Updates

    People that want more need to think back to all of the previous balance updates. Every time there's a balance update, the forums always get flooded with complaints as people are disappointed about one thing or another. Do you really want more of that?

    More frequent updates does not mean that the updates you want are more likely to occur.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (write below)

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @Ben K.6238 said:
    Frequent does not mean better.

    Actually in software development methodologies it does.

    To be fair, "it does" should be replaced with, "it can."

    More frequent bad changes that compound each other is not better than fewer changes that might very well have more consideration put into them.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 3, 2019
    Other (write below)

    It depends. If Anet has a vision for what classes should do and how they can be played... Sure, I'd like to see more of that. If their balance philosophy is a monthly "nerf this, buff this" to artificially force a shift the meta... Yeah, no.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, we don't need more Balance Updates

    People voting Yes have no idea ... I guess you like being the game QA department as well as a customer?

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, we don't need more Balance Updates

    I have little interest in balance updates - they are way down the list of priorities for me. I'm still scratching my head over the berserker rework mind you, but I can live with it.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Zephyr.5382Zephyr.5382 Member ✭✭✭
    No, we don't need more Balance Updates

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    People voting Yes have no idea ... I guess you like being the game QA department as well as a customer?

    I'm astounded at the ratio of "Yes" to "No" votes as well. Maybe we naysayers have been around since the beginning and are just cynical based on the pattern we've observed over the last 7 years.

  • Other (write below)

    In a perfect world anet would release a balance patch as often as an issue with a class appears. Actually they would never release them because.

    but you know,

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, we need more frequent Balance Updates

    @Interpretor.3091 said:
    The way that the game company Blizzard is frequently changing and updating their game, Hearthstone, lately (since the dev team changed) should really be looked at as a model for all games as a service for the future. That game was honestly about the die (or at least be a shell of its former self) and recently within the last 6 months they have changed everything dramatically. Frequent and community driven small balance changes, quality of life implementations within the game and client, more transparent communication with the community, etc.. All of their work has revived the game and their esports scene and would really work wonders in this game as well.

    Bingo.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 4, 2019
    Yes, we need more frequent Balance Updates

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    People that want more need to think back to all of the previous balance updates. Every time there's a balance update, the forums always get flooded with complaints as people are disappointed about one thing or another. Do you really want more of that?

    More frequent updates does not mean that the updates you want are more likely to occur.

    development agility drives behaviours that ultimately creates quality and content nearer to the point in time when it is desired. As with everything this requires skill and understanding to do well. Beware the silo'd QA department from a gone age!

    Waterfall development on the other hand is awful unless perhaps your building software to drive critical medical machines etc.

    look at google - daily code deployments, they do this for a reason.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 4, 2019
    No, we don't need more Balance Updates

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    People that want more need to think back to all of the previous balance updates. Every time there's a balance update, the forums always get flooded with complaints as people are disappointed about one thing or another. Do you really want more of that?

    More frequent updates does not mean that the updates you want are more likely to occur.

    development agility drives behaviours that ultimately creates quality and content nearer to the point in time when it is desired. As with everything this requires skill and understanding to do well. Beware the silo'd QA department from a gone age!

    Waterfall development on the other hand is awful unless perhaps your building software to drive critical medical machines etc.

    look at google - daily code deployments, they do this for a reason.

    The fact will always remain that as long as people bring their traditional MMO baggage with them, Anet could do a balance patch every day and those people would still say the game isn't balanced. Anet's approach to balance simply is NOT like what most other games try to target and it's all related to their decision to abandon the holy trinity.

    It's going to take a very long time before people finally accept that we are likely very close to 'balance' in this game, unless there is a revolutionary deviation from the current game model, like true separation of PVP from PVE for instance.

    No, we don't need more balance patches. What we actually need is for Anet to tell us the target and tell us how close they think they are to getting there. That would put LOTS of these debates to rest.

    @Zephyr.5382 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    People voting Yes have no idea ... I guess you like being the game QA department as well as a customer?

    I'm astounded at the ratio of "Yes" to "No" votes as well. Maybe we naysayers have been around since the beginning and are just cynical based on the pattern we've observed over the last 7 years.

    It's just people's wishful thinking ... they believe if they get more frequent balance patches, they will get to whatever their idea of balance is faster. Problem is that they don't realize how much deviation there is between what they think is balance and what Anet's target is.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Sojourner.4621Sojourner.4621 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, we don't need more Balance Updates

    We had six balance updates from July 2018 until Jun 2019. That's more than once per quarter, and though it's not technically one every two months (more like they did two months in a row, skipped two, then did two more in a row) I think that's honestly a good goal to aim for. I do NOT want a balance pass every month. Every other would be just fine thank you. (balance patches were July, August, October, December, March, April)

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 4, 2019
    No, we don't need more Balance Updates

    I spend most of my gw2 time solo roaming in wvw so other than spvpers I'm guessing class balance probably affects me more directly than any other play group but I've never really seen it as being very important. Everyone has access to all the same builds so an 'unbalanced' system gives you greater flexibility in how much you want to handicap yourself given your personal skill and the level of competition you are facing . . .

    I'm not saying anet shouldn't fix things that are clearly broken, but that doesn't mean something is clearly broken just bc I can't beat it with my preferred class/build. I would MUCH rather be given more time to perfect my play with a current build than have the game skills changed to accommodate an unbalanced class matchup . . .

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, we need more frequent Balance Updates

    The faster you can brake up the meta the better. At best ppl are just asking for one way to play the game for months on end with longer time in-between updates.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (write below)

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @Ben K.6238 said:
    Frequent does not mean better.

    Actually in software development methodologies it does.

    To be fair, "it does" should be replaced with, "it can."

    More frequent bad changes that compound each other is not better than fewer changes that might very well have more consideration put into them.

    Indeed. "Fail fast, fail often" should be applied to internal testing only. Doing it on live servers is a good way to earn a bad reputation.

    For computer games in particular, players take some time to adapt to new balance values. Making further adjustments before the meta has time to adjust can easily result in compounding error, so the only time that should be done is if something has gone horribly wrong (e.g. some unusual interaction between skills that makes a player permanently invulnerable).

  • Edelweiss.4261Edelweiss.4261 Member ✭✭✭
    Other (write below)

    I, personally, would like more balance updates. I don't think now is a good time to make that shift, however. Right now we need stuff to keep people preoccupied so they don't wonder/worry about what is next/what season 5 is going to be like.

  • No, we don't need more Balance Updates

    Less patches mean more to to figure out how to play against a broken build. And more time to figure out how to nerf it correctly.

    Even if they don't nerf things correctly all the time the principle still holds true.

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 4, 2019
    Yes, we need more frequent Balance Updates

    @Ben K.6238 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @Ben K.6238 said:
    Frequent does not mean better.

    Actually in software development methodologies it does.

    To be fair, "it does" should be replaced with, "it can."

    More frequent bad changes that compound each other is not better than fewer changes that might very well have more consideration put into them.

    Indeed. "Fail fast, fail often" should be applied to internal testing only. Doing it on live servers is a good way to earn a bad reputation.

    For computer games in particular, players take some time to adapt to new balance values. Making further adjustments before the meta has time to adjust can easily result in compounding error, so the only time that should be done is if something has gone horribly wrong (e.g. some unusual interaction between skills that makes a player permanently invulnerable).

    Reducing or increasing dmg by half a percent each week is zero risk,whereas 2 monthly drops (at best)is MUCH MUCH more damaging than making an error in judgement that u fix a couple of days later. This kind of stuff is well established theory now. Example - ele uncompetitive in spvp in all but 1 build that requires 1k heal. Its taken 2 years with many many stale patches and they STILL haven't sorted it. Now imagine they incrementally tweaked ele every so slighty per week and they monitored trends. This is balancing. That is sustainable.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 4, 2019
    No, we don't need more Balance Updates

    @Jski.6180 said:
    The faster you can brake up the meta the better. At best ppl are just asking for one way to play the game for months on end with longer time in-between updates.

    This shows a big misunderstanding of the goals of balancing. It's not there to break up meta and meta never goes away either. Also, it is important to maintain so sense of continuity in a class. For the meta to 'break up', you need to smash something pretty hard.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, we don't need more Balance Updates

    It’s fine I play all game modes frequently and I hardly ever even notice any changes.

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, we need more frequent Balance Updates

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    I am 99% sure that ANet would like to offer more balance updates, too. The question is: how do they pay for it, given the resource limitations and plans that they already have?

    Like with most of the stuff they do for the game its an investent. They invest in faster balance with the hope it will lead to overall better balance and that will bring/retain more players.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, we need more frequent Balance Updates

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    The faster you can brake up the meta the better. At best ppl are just asking for one way to play the game for months on end with longer time in-between updates.

    This shows a big misunderstanding of the goals of balancing. It's not there to break up meta and meta never goes away either. Also, it is important to maintain so sense of continuity in a class. For the meta to 'break up', you need to smash something pretty hard.

    You need to smash it hard enough and often enough for it to not be tale for too long.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, we need more frequent Balance Updates

    @White Kitsunee.4620 said:
    Less patches mean more to to figure out how to play against a broken build. And more time to figure out how to nerf it correctly.

    Even if they don't nerf things correctly all the time the principle still holds true.

    Less patches also mean that broken op or broken up remain op/up for longer which is not good for the game.

  • @zealex.9410 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    I am 99% sure that ANet would like to offer more balance updates, too. The question is: how do they pay for it, given the resource limitations and plans that they already have?

    Like with most of the stuff they do for the game its an investent. They invest in faster balance with the hope it will lead to overall better balance and that will bring/retain more players.

    "Hoping" for better results isn't an investment plan. How many new paying customers do you think they'd get for instituting this? How many hours of dev time would that cover? How many dev hours would it need to make it work?
    Without knowing the details, we have to speculate. My back-of-enveloper calculations suggest that the numbers aren't anywhere near reasonable to make this a feasible option.

    In contrast, investment into Living World is easier to translate into new spending by players, so easier to invest in.

    I wish it weren't so. I'd like the game's PvP & WvW to get more attention, aside from the big ticket projects (like 10v10 and Swiss and Restructuring). I think it's hard to justify, especially in light of NCSOFT breathing down their neck.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

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