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Are raids too easy because of downstate?


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Am I the only one who thinks downstate should not exist in raids? Since its the hardest content in the game, I feel like downstate ruins the whole "hardcore" experience that raids are supposed to be. There is no punishment for going down aside from losing DPS when people res. Its like having an infinite amount of lives. it would be nice if they removed downstate from raids and increased the rewards to compensate otherwise it just feels like DPSing a golem its not challenging if theres no risk.

Or at least they could add a hard mode without downstate with greatly increased rewards and keep the current one this way. Some mechanics might need adjustments to make up for downstate removal but overall it would make raids much more interesting.

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no it's not because of downstate that raids are easy, raids are easy because they're designed with casuals in mind and powercreep.

the removal of downstate won't make raids more interesting, all it'd do is push support necro of any kind out of raids

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DPS loss is big enough of a punishment for bad groups that need to make every k count. Good groups don't need it whatsoever. All this would do is make the game more annoying to those who are still learning, maybe a bit more frustrating if you're making some mistakes. Ress plays are fun though and fun shouldn't be removed.

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the real solution is to make CMs reward something on extra completions (perhaps another of those chests of food/util once a week, or some other fair scaling).

Some raids have more instant-kill mechanics than others, like the walls of Soulless Horror. If that's too boring, lowman it. CM versions of raids generally add some more instant-kill aspects to the fight.

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Raids are not easy. It takes practice to get to the point where there are no downs. Case in point : allmost all groups look for experienced players. I wouldn't mind having a hard setting like you propose. It wonder if it would be met with the same opposition as proposals for an easy mode.

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This is a great way to encourage people to avoid raids. Instant dead = no learning, or at least VERY slow learning if you can only try and see why you died once per try.... many more failed encounters in PUGs, greatly increased frustration for small mistakes.Also, i wouldn't say raids are easy because of downstate, generally a group that gets a lot of downs is still learning, and if they're still learning they're also LIKELY to not be too comfy on the dps marks either, either because people not used to rotations or not used to do rotations in an unfamiliar encounter. Maybe in a more exp group if you get a couple downs only, i can see that.

I don't mind no downs making you elligible for more rewards though, harsh punishment pushes people away and would be much worse for raids, but increasing rewards for groups good enough to pull that off i don't mind at all- encourages better play, though i can only imagine how toxic it'd get. xD

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The logic of this thread escapes me.

If you are good or very good at raids, you don't get any downstates, thus the mechanic does not affect you -> why care?

If you get a lot of downs an fail, you are not that good and the mechanic did nothing to help you succeed -> again, who cares?

If you got a lot of downs but succeed, you have a lot of room to improve thus the encounter was not to easy -> final time, who cares?

Losing dps is already punishing enough, especially given many meta tactics revolve around skipping mechanics.

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Removing downstate is a terrible idea. Literally every class has at least one trait designed around downstate. Designing a giant complex combat system, and then trying to introduce difficulty by turning that combat system off would be silly. I mean, why not suggest that we just can't get boons in raids? That would introduce difficulty too.

The way you get challenging raids is convincing Anet to make challenging raids.

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Removing downstates is an interesting idea but it might require some rebalancing as all encounters are designed with this safety net idea. There are quite a few things which oneshoot squishy players, quite a few more than in other games I have seen. And even the best of groups, with the best of players, have some downstates from time to time. They simply insta-res and move on.

Also, you have to keep in mind that most of those other games still allow you to res dead players during a fight. At least the ones I played did. Compare that to GW2 where the downstates are a two-edged sword. They are everything from an easy safety net that can be abused, insta-ressing and stuff like precasting group resses, down to a timer that makes people panic and often causes more harm than it helps. Take a look at a few of the wipes that happened during the Amateur Raid Tournament - caused players going for resses at the wrong time. Something they wouldn't have had to do if they were allowed to res the person later at a more convenient point during the fight.I still wouldn't mind the additional of some hardcore mode which entirely removed the downstates but this shouldn't be baseline at all - not unless it would come with a long list of rebalancing and design changes which sounds like a pretty terrible idea.

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@"Skyronight.6370" said:Am I the only one who thinks downstate should not exist in raids? Since its the hardest content in the game, I feel like downstate ruins the whole "hardcore" experience that raids are supposed to be. There is no punishment for going down aside from losing DPS when people res. Its like having an infinite amount of lives. it would be nice if they removed downstate from raids and increased the rewards to compensate otherwise it just feels like DPSing a golem its not challenging if theres no risk.

Or at least they could add a hard mode without downstate with greatly increased rewards and keep the current one this way. Some mechanics might need adjustments to make up for downstate removal but overall it would make raids much more interesting.

Considering that at least half of the fails i have seen were started by res panic mode (someone getting initially downed, and then causing more players to go down due to ressing attempts), i don't think so. Besides, in order for raids to be too easy because of the downstate, the raids would have to be too easy - and that in itself is quite a strong assertion to have. Understand, that, even if they are too easy for you, it doesn't mean they are too easy (or just easy) in general. If anything, most of the playerbase would probably find them anything but easy.

Now, if your intention is to make them harder than they are now, consider whether considerably diminishing that content's target group would be advisable at this point. And whether Anet would agree with you - because, if the last wing is any indication, they seem to think something exactly opposite.

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