Nerf the mesmers for the love of pvp

Mesmers that can spam infinite clones, mesmers that can immobilize, stunlock you and spam torment etc... Its ridiculous how they have so many evades and invulnerabilities... most professions can't even take them down solo without being hit by their stupid clones.

Nerf the mesmer builds and make them more vulnerable good lord..... It's totally unfun to fight them, especially when the enemy team has two of them...

Mesmers aren’t any good according to these forums. So no nerf is needed.. ^^

@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:Mesmers aren’t any good according to these forums. So no nerf is needed.. ^^

Not as god-like as the OP and many others make them out to be. Mesmer can be NPCs and the player base will still complain.

Seen a build in wvw that was staff/scepter pistol, plenty of daze "spam" in that build. It was more annoying than anything though because of how defensive/offensive it was. I could easily run away on war/theif/ranger/holo/other mesmer though that is wvw and not spvp where you fight over nodes so I guess it would be even more annoying here lol.

@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:Mesmers aren’t any good according to these forums. So no nerf is needed.. ^^

Mesmers are trying to mesmerise these forums. It is still an insanely OP and cheesy profession with multiple spammable and macroable builds that wreck opponents through unfair and utterly unfun fights. End this mockery and bring Mesmer back to the ground with other professions.

While it's mainly Mirage that's broken, I'd still like to see fine tuning of Mesmer across the board.

@BadMed.3846 said:

@"ZeroTheCat.2684" said:Mesmers aren’t any good according to these forums. So no nerf is needed.. ^^

you are too hilarious. YetI still do believe Mesmer need to be redesign to bring it in line with its core roothttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mesmer

Currently, Mesmers have huge win chance and every match there are like 1 or 2 per team. Absolutely ridiculous. There shouldn't be such build with so many clones and such torment + stun spam. And not only that but it has stealth and fantastic mobility. Mesmer needs a serious tune down.

No!! Mesmer need to be redesign instead.

Mesmer does not net more nerfs, maybe few changes but theyve been nerfed enough geez. Burn fall the prob with ur redesign idea is if mesmer OR thief were redesigned to be in ur idealsnon toxic they would no longer resemble a mesmer or thief archetype lol

@Burnfall.9573 said:No!! Mesmer need to be redesign instead.They have no reasources to redesign the mesmer, never had. They wont be able to give the mesmer control over his damage and not being reliant that hard on the clones, DAMN CLONES COMPLAINT IN 2k19, jesus christ its not even even funny anymore, even build that has close to no clone generation they scream CLONES!111 CLuttterrrewrr!111

@King xiuras.3615 said:Mesmers that can spam infinite clones, mesmers that can immobilize, stunlock you and spam torment etc... Its ridiculous how they have so many evades and invulnerabilities... most professions can't even take them down solo without being hit by their stupid clones.

Nerf the mesmer builds and make them more vulnerable good lord..... It's totally unfun to fight them, especially when the enemy team has two of them...

I have to give it to you. The post is pretty funny. Being accurate though...

Oh boy, reading the comments and the topic itself is like watching a history.On and On it spins.

Lets classify all mesmer player in these categories: 30% of all mesmers who can't play the class, 50% of all mesmers who can play this class (average players) and 20% of all mesmers who can play this class very well.Lets talk only about those 20% of mesmers who can play this class very well.

Now, lets separate out power mesmers (either core, chrono or mirage, doesn't matter) and condition mesmers (mirage).

While playing a warrior with +27k HP i was instantly 1shot by power mesmer out of stealth. While it might be extreme case of lucky crits, but still, power mesmer can deal over 27k damage instantly out of stealth. There is no country play to it, there is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent that from happening. It doesn't matter what class you play or how good you play - you will instantly die without any warning. And i don't mean you will have time to dodge once or twice. Nope, it will happen in under 1 sec of time frame. To whom does that sound fun or balanced?

Now, condition mesmer (mirage) is a bit different. This how average fight against one goes:Step 1: He/she instantly makes clones and breaks your targeting. A good player will act just like clones, so you will have to manually search for the real mesmer. This make take anywhere from 1 to 3 sec.Step 2: Once you find the real mesmer, he/she will enter stealth and make more clones. So, once again you will have to manually search for the real one anywhere from 1 to 3 sec.Step 3: After you find the real one, then she/he will dodge and evade some of you attacks will give that players from 2 to 4 sec of invulnerability.Step 4: After evading some attacks, he/she teleport around (loss of sight, etc) until some abilities goes off cooldown which would be equal of 6-8 of invulnerability.Step 5: Repeat steps 1, 2 and 3.Now, that gives a good mesmer player about 14-28 sec time frame of being untouchable. And during this entire time mesmer ins constantly applying conditions. So, not only you can't do anything to that mesmer, but you also are take about 6-10k damage every single second from conditions applied on you.

When played by a player who mastered this class, then there is nearly nothing other players can do to deal with mesmer. You will either be instantly killed or have to fight someone who you can't touch and who deals tons of damage on you while itself being safe from anything.The main point i am trying to make that mesmer isn't overtuned (or under powered, how some mesmers claim they are while instantly killing other players from stealth). The main point is this: mesmer is broken class in every step of its design, and that cause great problems when skilled players abuse this class. New/unskilled players and average players doesn't even matter, because they can't abuse the state of this class how skilled players can. While there are other classes who perform better in the hands of average players (because mesmer is quite complex class compared to most other classes), but that's not an excuse for keeping this essentially broken class in this state.And it could be fixed very easily in three steps:1) Remove stealth from all abilities and traits;2) Remove ability to break the targeting;3) Reduce amount of clones summoned from any abilities to 1.

With these three simple fixes every single issue with mesmer would be instantly solved: no more instant kills from stealth and no more armies of clones putting constant pressure on you while you don't even know where the real mesmer went.

There needs to be something done about the mindless lazy daze spam. Mesmer aren't even trying to go for interrupts but they're just spamming dazes to the point it feels like you can't even play when fighting one of these mesmers.

Lol, You can instantly tell the quality of a player who complains about illusions.Please remove the hyperbole of “infinite” and please list what a meta build is capable of per weapon set then argue how it’s imbalanced. Trust me it’ll help you.

As for being locked down, let me help you regarding the skills: grand total of two stun skills on weapons with obvious tells, one of which is locked behind chrono. Plus a trait in a mediocre line that condi wouldn’t run, turning a 38 sec cooldown into a stun.As for imob most of it comes from interrupts. Which you can counter with a stow.

But you honestly must not be keeping track of what your opponent can’t do if you’re getting locked down in a meta that is full of so much stability, and so many other easy access responses to stuns. I could maybe see issues with imob if you have a lot of cover condis on you.

Defensive cooldowns? Other classes, particularly every medium armor class gets access to more on demand defensive cooldowns than Mesmer. All you have to do is count the access.Around season 9 or 10 prior to any nerfs people calculated the uptime on evasion between DD and mirage, and DD still had more lol. Now after all the nerfs still complaining? Lol, it’s like even after crying to A-net for nerf intervention people still never learned what they needed to to beat it 1v1. Which killing condi mes 1v1 on my War, Thief, and Ranger is one of my favorite past times. So I dunno why you think people can’t keep up. On top of that Engie specifically holo counters it, while scrapper can fairly easily bunk it. That’s 4/8 (excluding mirror matchup) and prior to guard nerfs, any meditation build countered it pretty well too.

If your complaint is specifically regarding condi I’ll let you have that as power mes doesn’t over perform, and has the same tools listed. However, if that is the argument being made then you should amend your stance to reflect this.

People have finally gotten wise to Chaotic Interruption Condi, eh?

I T B E G I N S

@"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:Lets classify all mesmer player in these categories: 30% of all mesmers who can't play the class, 50% of all mesmers who can play this class (average players) and 20% of all mesmers who can play this class very well.Lets talk only about those 20% of mesmers who can play this class very well.

Now, lets separate out power mesmers (either core, chrono or mirage, doesn't matter) and condition mesmers (mirage).

While playing a warrior with +27k HP i was instantly 1shot by power mesmer out of stealth. While it might be extreme case of lucky crits, but still, power mesmer can deal over 27k damage instantly out of stealth. There is no country play to it, there is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent that from happening. It doesn't matter what class you play or how good you play - you will instantly die without any warning. And i don't mean you will have time to dodge once or twice. Nope, it will happen in under 1 sec of time frame. To whom does that sound fun or balanced?

Now, condition mesmer (mirage) is a bit different. This how average fight against one goes:Step 1: He/she instantly makes clones and breaks your targeting. A good player will act just like clones, so you will have to manually search for the real mesmer. This make take anywhere from 1 to 3 sec.Step 2: Once you find the real mesmer, he/she will enter stealth and make more clones. So, once again you will have to manually search for the real one anywhere from 1 to 3 sec.Step 3: After you find the real one, then she/he will dodge and evade some of you attacks will give that players from 2 to 4 sec of invulnerability.Step 4: After evading some attacks, he/she teleport around (loss of sight, etc) until some abilities goes off cooldown which would be equal of 6-8 of invulnerability.Step 5: Repeat steps 1, 2 and 3.Now, that gives a good mesmer player about 14-28 sec time frame of being untouchable. And during this entire time mesmer ins constantly applying conditions. So, not only you can't do anything to that mesmer, but you also are take about 6-10k damage every single second from conditions applied on you.

When played by a player who mastered this class, then there is nearly nothing other players can do to deal with mesmer. You will either be instantly killed or have to fight someone who you can't touch and who deals tons of damage on you while itself being safe from anything.The main point i am trying to make that mesmer isn't overtuned (or under powered, how some mesmers claim they are while instantly killing other players from stealth). The main point is this: mesmer is broken class in every step of its design, and that cause great problems when skilled players abuse this class. New/unskilled players and average players doesn't even matter, because they can't abuse the state of this class how skilled players can. While there are other classes who perform better in the hands of average players (because mesmer is quite complex class compared to most other classes), but that's not an excuse for keeping this essentially broken class in this state.And it could be fixed very easily in three steps:1) Remove stealth from all abilities and traits;2) Remove ability to break the targeting;3) Reduce amount of clones summoned from any abilities to 1.

With these three simple fixes every single issue with mesmer would be instantly solved: no more instant kills from stealth and no more armies of clones putting constant pressure on you while you don't even know where the real mesmer went.

Your "solutions" are hilarious (excepted that last one which I do agree). Where do you get those insane numbers from? I duel good Mesmers all day long, yet the maximum one can stack invulnerability+evading effects on itself is a maximum of 4 seconds.

Calling invulnerability for the time it takes you to learn where the player is simply a lack of knowledge from you - in no way should Mesmers suffer from your subjective thoughts because you think they are hard to play against.

And I want to know how did you get 27k hp on Warrior in PvP while thinking you'd be viable. And I would like to know what makes you think you can't evade a burst from stealth. When you get hit by a stun or daze, click that "Oh shit" button all warriors seem to carry, that being shield stance. You just need to get better at quickly following a stun break and that shield stance of yours. And if you don't carry a shield... well then, you should learn to recognize the very clear sound all Mesmer Stealth skills have, be it Decoy, The Prestige or Mass Insivisibility.

Mesmers were nerf well enough already. Not played at high ranks when it comes to structured PvP (mAt levels) and has one of the lowest winrates right now (if I remember correctly, Ben mentionned it was around 45% - right besides Elementalist. I don't remember where he said that though).

While disguising your argument behind the "Ah only good players can play Mesmer correctly, thus making this class only performing but it doesn't mean it is less broken in the right hands", the same could be saod from all classes. Good warriors can 3v1 rather easily. Would that mean that warriors are now broken? I'll let you think.

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:Lets classify all mesmer player in these categories: 30% of all mesmers who can't play the class, 50% of all mesmers who can play this class (average players) and 20% of all mesmers who can play this class very well.Lets talk only about those 20% of mesmers who can play this class very well.

Now, lets separate out power mesmers (either core, chrono or mirage, doesn't matter) and condition mesmers (mirage).

While playing a warrior with +27k HP i was instantly 1shot by power mesmer out of stealth. While it might be extreme case of lucky crits, but still, power mesmer can deal over 27k damage instantly out of stealth. There is no country play to it, there is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent that from happening. It doesn't matter what class you play or how good you play - you will instantly die without any warning. And i don't mean you will have time to dodge once or twice. Nope, it will happen in under 1 sec of time frame. To whom does that sound fun or balanced?

Now, condition mesmer (mirage) is a bit different. This how average fight against one goes:Step 1: He/she instantly makes clones and breaks your targeting. A good player will act just like clones, so you will have to manually search for the real mesmer. This make take anywhere from 1 to 3 sec.Step 2: Once you find the real mesmer, he/she will enter stealth and make more clones. So, once again you will have to manually search for the real one anywhere from 1 to 3 sec.Step 3: After you find the real one, then she/he will dodge and evade some of you attacks will give that players from 2 to 4 sec of invulnerability.Step 4: After evading some attacks, he/she teleport around (loss of sight, etc) until some abilities goes off cooldown which would be equal of 6-8 of invulnerability.Step 5: Repeat steps 1, 2 and 3.Now, that gives a good mesmer player about 14-28 sec time frame of being untouchable. And during this entire time mesmer ins constantly applying conditions. So, not only you can't do anything to that mesmer, but you also are take about 6-10k damage every single second from conditions applied on you.

When played by a player who mastered this class, then there is nearly nothing other players can do to deal with mesmer. You will either be instantly killed or have to fight someone who you can't touch and who deals tons of damage on you while itself being safe from anything.The main point i am trying to make that mesmer isn't overtuned (or under powered, how some mesmers claim they are while instantly killing other players from stealth). The main point is this: mesmer is broken class in every step of its design, and that cause great problems when skilled players abuse this class. New/unskilled players and average players doesn't even matter, because they can't abuse the state of this class how skilled players can. While there are other classes who perform better in the hands of average players (because mesmer is quite complex class compared to most other classes), but that's not an excuse for keeping this essentially broken class in this state.And it could be fixed very easily in three steps:1) Remove stealth from all abilities and traits;2) Remove ability to break the targeting;3) Reduce amount of clones summoned from any abilities to 1.

With these three simple fixes every single issue with mesmer would be instantly solved: no more instant kills from stealth and no more armies of clones putting constant pressure on you while you don't even know where the real mesmer went.

I think a better solution is removing clones being able to damage at all. That way they only do damage if shattered or if they real Mesmer attacks. That I think will make Mesmer not such a passive and easy class to play.

mes isn't that bad anymore.

It's a horrible design when you can spam conditions for 3 minutes while avoiding all damage. When can my reaper have 100 ways to evade damage while spewing conditions?

The carry class for baddies.

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:The carry class for baddies.

Carry to where? There are so few in top placements even prior to the nerfs.

Plus

@DigiQWill.6378 said:has one of the lowest winrates right now (if I remember correctly, Ben mentionned it was around 45% - right besides Elementalist.

@Regon Phoenix.8215 as someone who mastered guardian, I have not lost a solo battle to a condi mesmer since the March nerf. Even before then, I was 85-90% win rate. I play mostly sage FB now, and I win against memsers most of the time.

You know, maybe the issue is not mesmer as a class, but your skill level? In P1 and above Mesmer is currently the worst performing class.

@Daishi.6027 said:

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:The carry class for baddies.

Exactly. Relatively inexperienced players will have issues against Mesmer. And honestly, the visual noise is ridiculous. But at higher skill level it is all a mirage (pun intended).

I think anyone who has pvped for a while knows how pof elite specs are just bad design. Mirage, fb, scourge, holo, sb, spb are the most complained about specs by far and for good reason.

I think the chaotic interruption build is healthy for the game. It's the only build right now that brings a "wizard" feel to the game. I think ele needs some buffs too so it can join the scene. Everything else is too much sword and shield, need MOAR MAGIC.

@mortrialus.3062 said:People have finally gotten wise to Chaotic Interruption Condi, eh?

I T B E G I N SWell, its hard to understand if its CI complaint. All I see from OP and everyone in the thread: REEEEEEEEEE MESMERS HAS CLONES THAT UnfAIRrr reereeeeeeeeee.If that would be only CI QQ I would agree even but nah.