WvW rewards: why are they so lacking? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

WvW rewards: why are they so lacking?

Rennie.6750Rennie.6750 Member ✭✭✭
edited October 6, 2017 in WvW

I'm one of these players playing a bit of everything, but my single most played map is probably one of the WvW ones. When I compare the time spent in there vs what I get in PvE, I'm really wondering what's going on and what was the thought process leading to such awful rewards, so let's make a simple comparison of what I've experienced:

  • Exotic gear: Dungeons, 30 minutes playing 2-3 paths of a dungeon (2 if you really take your time to teach the noobies who joined your team, 3 if it's just blazing through it) to get a single exotic. WvW: 8h for a single track. The badge of honor vendor does not count as it's often lacking a ton of relevant WvW stats like dire and costs quite a bit of gold (WTH?). So to get my dire gear well I farmed CoE for maybe 4 days instead of getting my WvW gear from WvW. Don't get me wrong, I like dungeons, but it still feel awfully wrong to do things that way.

  • Gold. PvE: if you're farming for it with fractals, it's easy to make about 20g an hour, even with T1 fractals. Mats are abundant and so are trophies, especially if you open the loot boxes with fractal keys. After 3h of WvW, this is a good day if i'm walking away with 6-7g, and I'm not slacking at spawn, I'm killing quite a lot of players, capping things, getting ranks and loot bags. This is counting tier 6 participation rewards.

  • Ascended gear: Well that's simple, I got 2 useless rings from WvW this month, and 3 fully crafted armor and weapons from Tequatl chests, ie a 10 mins encounter I do every day because rewards are so ridiculously high it would be silly to pass. I also get countless rings from fractals and dailies. Where's the consistency?

  • Legendary gear. Raids: 4h a week, get your full set in 3 months. WvW: 4h a day, get your set in 6-8 months. I know it's not supposed to be given like candy but this is just adding insult to injuries at this point.

I'm not saying WvW should be the ultimate way to earn every possible reward in the game, but it should at least be good for something, be it crafting mats, ascended or gold. Currently it's 5 to 16 times slower than PvE. The difference is just too huge.

To avoid any potential toxicity, I'll just add that if you think that fighting people with a working, active brain is easier than fighting a script that is specifically made in order for you to win, you're probably wrong.

<1

Comments

  • Rennie.6750Rennie.6750 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2017

    @Rangerdeity.5847 said:
    yes but WvW players have decided to collectivly shut up recently since they are now 100x better than they were prior to pips and reward tracks. but yes the rate of rewards is still absolutely terrible. one would think the most unpredictable and challenging game mode would yield more rewards.

    Inb4 pve scrub says WvW just runs around in a blob not fully understanding that your blob consistantly and endlessly runs into the two enemy blobs. this isnt a champion loot farm like you PVE'rs are used to WvW blobs are large scale conflict seeking blobs and only one side gets the loot when the fight turns hot.

    Maybe it was worse before. But then it's still not good enough, far from it. I made the math, if I spent all my WvW time chopping wood (so much skill, so much fun, right?) this summer I could probably afford one of the legendary weapons from the TP. Direct purchase, no crafting. Yet if I take a look at my bank tabs and currency wallet right now, I'm really, really far from it.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Wvw has always been treated that way, it's main players are use to it. It's just about time and effort in getting rewards and apparently anet thinks that wvw players need to give more than other modes to earn those rewards. Pve is also the lifeblood of the game so obviously it needs to be the best area for rewards.

    After 5 years the rewards you can earn went from 3 extra green bags a week to being able to access ascended gear with legendary stat swapping feature, not much else to complain about rewards these days as they are on par with the rest of the game finally, other than the heavily gated time to acquire but that's just a losing battle to discuss with anet. Wvw has also been given easier access to HoT items without needing to pve to get them, you don't even have to step in pve to get your elite specs.

    These days I'd say the top priority in wvw is to try and fix is combat and balance, rewards are in a decent place finally.

    Another derailing post. ^^
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  • Cerby.1069Cerby.1069 Member ✭✭✭

    It's because of the "winning vs losing doesn't matter" mentality they have taken with the mode. They create unbalanced teams and persist a system that is unbalanced....and to compensate they decide to judge the rewards of the winner and loser as being fundamentally the same. Given that anyone and everyone is making the same level of loot from the mode...its natural that the overall highest output is lower than other modes.

    You get full rewards just for showing up basically in this mode and doing anything that can be measured by the system. It is difficult to measure accomplishment in this mode, I can't lie about that, but the system they DO have is rather simple-minded because of the "winning vs losing doesn't matter" mentality stated above.

  • @XenesisII.1540 said:
    Wvw has always been treated that way, it's main players are use to it. It's just about time and effort in getting rewards and apparently anet thinks that wvw players need to give more than other modes to earn those rewards. Pve is also the lifeblood of the game so obviously it needs to be the best area for rewards.

    After 5 years the rewards you can earn went from 3 extra green bags a week to being able to access ascended gear with legendary stat swapping feature, not much else to complain about rewards these days as they are on par with the rest of the game finally, other than the heavily gated time to acquire but that's just a losing battle to discuss with anet. Wvw has also been given easier access to HoT items without needing to pve to get them, you don't even have to step in pve to get your elite specs.

    These days I'd say the top priority in wvw is to try and fix is combat and balance, rewards are in a decent place finally.

    my earlier point about WvW players having decided to shut up since they are no longer 1% of PvE rewards and are now a whopping 40% of PvE rewards now has an exhibit A

  • I find it easier and less effort to earn rewards playing WvW than running dungeons. Dungeons get boring after a while; WvW frequently surprises me.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    I find it easier and less effort to earn rewards playing WvW than running dungeons. Dungeons get boring after a while; WvW frequently surprises me.

    i dont know about less effort but its a lot more fun than dungeons. WvW can be hell if the enemy team is actually evenly matched with you. (but the good kind of hell) you know 3 hour sieges and a mini holocaust under the barrage of cows. yet at the same time i need to kill a player for the same rewards PVE players for killing a veteran mob that sounds a little warped.

  • Jana.6831Jana.6831 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2017

    You were very lucky to get that many ascended chests from Teq. That was one of my dailies and I probably got 3 ascended chests in the past half a year (and no teq chest).
    I think it's more that people don't know how to make gold than 'lacking rewards'. I was sitting on 20k gold and mostly only played WvW. Made it by selling stuff that was in demand and easy+cheap to make. (And yes, you can get all that stuff even in WvW).

    the gentle art of making enemies.

  • MrRay.3027MrRay.3027 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cerby.1069 said:
    You get full rewards just for showing up basically in this mode and doing anything that can be measured by the system. It is difficult to measure accomplishment in this mode, I can't lie about that, but the system they DO have is rather simple-minded because of the "winning vs losing doesn't matter" mentality stated above.

    Isn't it kind of the same with every reward in any pve open world activity? In metas, you show up, you follow the commander mindlessly, do some damage and get rewards (better than wvw). Or world bosses, where it's even easier. So following this logic, why should the wvw rewards be worse?

  • @MrRay.3027 said:

    @Cerby.1069 said:
    You get full rewards just for showing up basically in this mode and doing anything that can be measured by the system. It is difficult to measure accomplishment in this mode, I can't lie about that, but the system they DO have is rather simple-minded because of the "winning vs losing doesn't matter" mentality stated above.

    Isn't it kind of the same with every reward in any pve open world activity? In metas, you show up, you follow the commander mindlessly, do some damage and get rewards (better than wvw). Or world bosses, where it's even easier. So following this logic, why should the wvw rewards be worse?

    Because PvE players are strictly worse than the AI and thus think that defeating the AI is harder than defeating other players.

  • Inoki.6048Inoki.6048 Member ✭✭✭

    The reward system is poor overall. I'm not talking about gold, which you can farm as mentioned in said Fractals ez. I'm talking about drops. Mostly you get scraps. Compare this game to many other games (a fair comparison can be made) - many, if not most, are rewarding and you can truly feel like you got something in exchange of your time.

  • MrRay.3027MrRay.3027 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2017

    @Rangerdeity.5847 said:

    @MrRay.3027 said:

    @Cerby.1069 said:
    You get full rewards just for showing up basically in this mode and doing anything that can be measured by the system. It is difficult to measure accomplishment in this mode, I can't lie about that, but the system they DO have is rather simple-minded because of the "winning vs losing doesn't matter" mentality stated above.

    Isn't it kind of the same with every reward in any pve open world activity? In metas, you show up, you follow the commander mindlessly, do some damage and get rewards (better than wvw). Or world bosses, where it's even easier. So following this logic, why should the wvw rewards be worse?

    Because PvE players are strictly worse than the AI and thus think that defeating the AI is harder than defeating other players.

    I'm not talking about if they're good or not. And I don't want to start a pve vs wvw debate either. I'm strictly talking about the activities: wvw vs metas/world bosses. At a fundamental level, they're the same: players grouping up to defeat/conquer something. There's no reason the rewards are so subpar to the other two game mods where you can just show up. I think I'm missing something. If somebody can tell what that is.

    On a side note, thinking about this made me realise that people that join wvw just to farm pips and not contribute to the activity are just bad at farming, in general.

  • Jana.6831Jana.6831 Member ✭✭✭

    @MrRay.3027 said:
    I'm not talking about if they're good or not. And I don't want to start a pve vs wvw debate either. I'm strictly talking about the activities: wvw vs metas/world bosses. At a fundamental level, they're the same: players grouping up to defeat/conquer something. There's no reason the rewards are so subpar to the other two game mods where you can just show up. I think I'm missing something. If somebody can tell what that is.

    On a side note, thinking about this made me realise that people that join wvw just to farm pips and not contribute to the activity are just bad at farming, in general.

    It always depends, I guess. I was mainly a roamer, so I naturally got less rewards than those running with the zerg. If it went well for them they could get around the same loot as usual PvE players are making from a PvE meta map (especially HoT, minus the silverwastes which might be the most rewarding map of them all). With the difference that a PvE meta map usually has got a Boss finale which WvW doesn't have. So you get a guaranteed x yellow items out of the final chest. Or an exotic which in Teq's case is either an item or a rune or a spoon. So yes, WvW when you are running with a zerg, when your side is winning and and and is very rewarding. For the rest not so much. I never had the impression I weren't rewarded but I've heard the argument from several people, that other games feel more rewarding. A sentiment I can't really understand and don't know what should be changed so they would feel properly rewarded. Loot tombolas like in WoW?
    On your sidenote: They only want the pips.

    the gentle art of making enemies.

  • Vermillion.4061Vermillion.4061 Member ✭✭✭

    With mounts now you can just find a good silverwaste map run around in a circle tagging every event and earn around 100 green loot bags every event chain and that's not including other rewards. lol

  • Swamurabi.7890Swamurabi.7890 Member ✭✭✭

    There's a rewards threshold, especially in any PvP game mode, where certain players think of a way to get the rewards by circumventing the original intent of the game mode. It's happened in the past to EotM. It's happened in WvW with kill trading in OS.

    The rewards for PvE have to be higher than in WvW because you need to compensate PvE for the boredom of killing Foozle for the 69,105th time to get the unique item everybody else has.

  • Rennie.6750Rennie.6750 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2017

    @Nuzt.7894 said:
    I wouldn't say no to better rewards but tbh I would rather see resources spent in more important areas in WvW.

    Except that you won't get much dev attention without higher player count. I mean what did we get for PoF? A single reward track, and not a good one.

    @Cerby.1069 said:
    It's because of the "winning vs losing doesn't matter" mentality they have taken with the mode. They create unbalanced teams and persist a system that is unbalanced....and to compensate they decide to judge the rewards of the winner and loser as being fundamentally the same. Given that anyone and everyone is making the same level of loot from the mode...its natural that the overall highest output is lower than other modes.

    You get full rewards just for showing up basically in this mode and doing anything that can be measured by the system. It is difficult to measure accomplishment in this mode, I can't lie about that, but the system they DO have is rather simple-minded because of the "winning vs losing doesn't matter" mentality stated above.

    There's no imbalance. In PvE you get credit for tagging bosses and laying as a carpet on the ground for the rest of the fight. In WvW if you're not able to put up a fight you're not going to get anything at all, not even supposedly "easy" karma by capturing objectives, because the enemy team is going to look for you to loot your corpse. Of course if you're not able to achieve anything you can keep dreaming of seeing participation go up too.

    @Inoki.6048 said:
    The reward system is poor overall. I'm not talking about gold, which you can farm as mentioned in said Fractals ez. I'm talking about drops. Mostly you get scraps. Compare this game to many other games (a fair comparison can be made) - many, if not most, are rewarding and you can truly feel like you got something in exchange of your time.

    Yes. It's really infuriating to see that you get so many ascendant recipes and gear from facerolling T1 fractals and nearly nothing at all from the raid equivalent of PvP.

    @Jana.6831 said:

    @MrRay.3027 said:
    I'm not talking about if they're good or not. And I don't want to start a pve vs wvw debate either. I'm strictly talking about the activities: wvw vs metas/world bosses. At a fundamental level, they're the same: players grouping up to defeat/conquer something. There's no reason the rewards are so subpar to the other two game mods where you can just show up. I think I'm missing something. If somebody can tell what that is.

    On a side note, thinking about this made me realise that people that join wvw just to farm pips and not contribute to the activity are just bad at farming, in general.

    It always depends, I guess. I was mainly a roamer, so I naturally got less rewards than those running with the zerg. If it went well for them they could get around the same loot as usual PvE players are making from a PvE meta map (especially HoT, minus the silverwastes which might be the most rewarding map of them all). With the difference that a PvE meta map usually has got a Boss finale which WvW doesn't have. So you get a guaranteed x yellow items out of the final chest. Or an exotic which in Teq's case is either an item or a rune or a spoon. So yes, WvW when you are running with a zerg, when your side is winning and and and is very rewarding. For the rest not so much. I never had the impression I weren't rewarded but I've heard the argument from several people, that other games feel more rewarding. A sentiment I can't really understand and don't know what should be changed so they would feel properly rewarded. Loot tombolas like in WoW?
    On your sidenote: They only want the pips.

    The problem is, I do join zergs, I get kills, and even if you spend an entire evening completely demolishing the enemy train, you don't have much to show for it after the fight. Mostly worthless t5 mats like mithril or silk from salvaging the blue junk you get, and a couple of ectos if the salvage gods aren't trolling you. As a firebrand it's really trivial to tag 60% or more of the enemy train, and all I get for it is a worthless currency that has no desirable long-term sink (badges of honor) and some worthless junk. Mostly 16 copper trophies though. Where are the T6 mats? Where's the gold? Where are the currency sinks for T6 mats?

    @VaaCrow.3076 said:
    I don't play WvW for rewards, i play it to have fun in wvw. Maybe you should reconsider playing if all you care about is getting useless stuff filling your bags.

    I want to address that too. Character progression is part of the fun for a lot of us. If you do not like rewards, there's a metric ton of free to play asian MMOs waiting for you. Because that's what WvW feels to me in terms of rewards right now. I do enjoy the game mode a lot, that's why I spend so much time in it, but I don't like how I'm treated as a thid-class citizen for playing that.

  • Jana.6831Jana.6831 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rennie.6750 said:

    @VaaCrow.3076 said:
    I don't play WvW for rewards, i play it to have fun in wvw. Maybe you should reconsider playing if all you care about is getting useless stuff filling your bags.

    I want to address that too. Character progression is part of the fun for a lot of us. If you do not like rewards, there's a metric ton of free to play asian MMOs waiting for you. Because that's what WvW feels to me in terms of rewards right now. I do enjoy the game mode a lot, that's why I spend so much time in it, but I don't like how I'm treated as a thid-class citizen for playing that.

    What kind of argument is that? =)
    "I like the game as it is" "GO AND PLAY SOME OTHER GAME IF YOU LIKE THIS ONE!!" umm, ok.

    the gentle art of making enemies.

  • Artemis Thuras.8795Artemis Thuras.8795 Member ✭✭
    edited October 6, 2017

    anecdotally: I feel like I get more than 6-7g for 2-3 hours of wvw most of the time. Even if all there is, is some snail k-train for some of it.

  • Hesacon.8735Hesacon.8735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rennie.6750 said:
    I'm one of these players playing a bit of everything, but my single most played map is probably one of the WvW ones. When I compare the time spent in there vs what I get in PvE, I'm really wondering what's going on and what was the thought process leading to such awful rewards, so let's make a simple comparison of what I've experienced:

    • Exotic gear: Dungeons, 30 minutes playing 2-3 paths of a dungeon (2 if you really take your time to teach the noobies who joined your team, 3 if it's just blazing through it) to get a single exotic. WvW: 8h for a single track. The badge of honor vendor does not count as it's often lacking a ton of relevant WvW stats like dire and costs quite a bit of gold (WTH?). So to get my dire gear well I farmed CoE for maybe 4 days instead of getting my WvW gear from WvW. Don't get me wrong, I like dungeons, but it still feel awfully wrong to do things that way.

    There are NPCs on each spawn point that sell exotic armor and weapons. Dire gear is dirt cheap in the trading post. Nobody plays dungeons.

    • Gold. PvE: if you're farming for it with fractals, it's easy to make about 20g an hour, even with T1 fractals. Mats are abundant and so are trophies, especially if you open the loot boxes with fractal keys. After 3h of WvW, this is a good day if i'm walking away with 6-7g, and I'm not slacking at spawn, I'm killing quite a lot of players, capping things, getting ranks and loot bags. This is counting tier 6 participation rewards.

    Fractals require an investment to make money. You're not making 20 gold in an hour of T1 fractals. Daily T4s take 30-60 minutes and usually only give 6-10 gold depending on RNG, and can only be completed once per day.

    • Ascended gear: Well that's simple, I got 2 useless rings from WvW this month, and 3 fully crafted armor and weapons from Tequatl chests, ie a 10 mins encounter I do every day because rewards are so ridiculously high it would be silly to pass. I also get countless rings from fractals and dailies. Where's the consistency?

    Teq takes 15 minutes, 20 if you want to secure a good map. I've gotten ascended chests from teq 3 times in maybe 300 kills. I've had similar success from rank up chests and rewards tracks in wvw.

    • Legendary gear. Raids: 4h a week, get your full set in 3 months. WvW: 4h a day, get your set in 6-8 months. I know it's not supposed to be given like candy but this is just adding insult to injuries at this point.

    You don't have to heard cats with 10 people in squad in wvw. You can do it at your own pace. There's value in freedom.

    I'm not saying WvW should be the ultimate way to earn every possible reward in the game, but it should at least be good for something, be it crafting mats, ascended or gold. Currently it's 5 to 16 times slower than PvE. The difference is just too huge.

    >
    Unless you want to farm the silverwastes or cursed shore, there is no good place to farm crafting materials. Ascended drops are uniform in wvw, spvp, and world bosses with the only place to farm those being T4 fractals at a rate of maybe 1 per week, and if you want gold park your alts on a flax patch.

    To avoid any potential toxicity, I'll just add that if you think that fighting people with a working, active brain is easier than fighting a script that is specifically made in order for you to win, you're probably wrong.

    Who said it was easy?

  • Rennie.6750Rennie.6750 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jana.6831 said:

    @Rennie.6750 said:

    @VaaCrow.3076 said:
    I don't play WvW for rewards, i play it to have fun in wvw. Maybe you should reconsider playing if all you care about is getting useless stuff filling your bags.

    I want to address that too. Character progression is part of the fun for a lot of us. If you do not like rewards, there's a metric ton of free to play asian MMOs waiting for you. Because that's what WvW feels to me in terms of rewards right now. I do enjoy the game mode a lot, that's why I spend so much time in it, but I don't like how I'm treated as a thid-class citizen for playing that.

    What kind of argument is that? =)
    "I like the game as it is" "GO AND PLAY SOME OTHER GAME IF YOU LIKE THIS ONE!!" umm, ok.

    No, that was just putting things into perspective, if I mentioned the relative privation fallacy, nobody would know what it means.

  • Rennie.6750Rennie.6750 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2017

    @Hesacon.8735 said:
    Fractals require an investment to make money. You're not making 20 gold in an hour of T1 fractals. Daily T4s take 30-60 minutes and usually only give 6-10 gold depending on RNG, and can only be completed once per day.

    Yes you do. Spam fractal 10 for an hour, open the fractal loot boxes with the cheap keys, sell everything you get. The investment for doing fractals? lol. What's that? Agony is a minimal investment, and there's no requirements for T1.

    Also the exotic gear sold in WvW costs gold (and not a symbolic amount of it), that's really ridiculous.

  • Jana.6831Jana.6831 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2017

    @Rennie.6750 said:
    No, that was just putting things into perspective, if I mentioned the relative privation fallacy, nobody would know what it means.

    Right now I'm playing a game where I get maybe 5 items (which sell very cheap) a day. So what? When I farmed the silverwastes to get the AP I didn't know where to put all that loot. It really annoyed me and it also annoyed me in wvw in the end because I felt I was clicking wiggle chests more often than clicking on an enemy. I don't get this sentiment, for real. And people complained that much that they're drowning in loot, the TP crumbles (good luck with selling anything your bank is full of) and yet they still complain. I honestly don't get it.

    ETA: And just saying but your perception of what PvE players are getting is wrong. For teq and for meta events. Like I already said. One dev once said that we're getting more than we think and since I never cared what I was getting (so viewed everything objectively) I agree that WvW is about on par with PvE meta maps, just that bosses usually have yellow items. There is no 'guaranteed yellow' in wvw and that's maybe for the better as the karma trains would roll over everything were that the case.
    ETA²: And like I also said: The MORE LOOT cries cause also quite a lot of problems. So how about finding another game with better rewards for yourself?

    the gentle art of making enemies.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    At least for transmutation charges is good now.

    "It's a testament to the folly of the humans and their gods. They say Arah was sacred, but all I see is one big dragon nest."(Rytlock Brimstone)

  • Cerby.1069Cerby.1069 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2017

    @MrRay.3027 said:

    @Cerby.1069 said:
    You get full rewards just for showing up basically in this mode and doing anything that can be measured by the system. It is difficult to measure accomplishment in this mode, I can't lie about that, but the system they DO have is rather simple-minded because of the "winning vs losing doesn't matter" mentality stated above.

    Isn't it kind of the same with every reward in any pve open world activity? In metas, you show up, you follow the commander mindlessly, do some damage and get rewards (better than wvw). Or world bosses, where it's even easier. So following this logic, why should the wvw rewards be worse?

    Well I would rather not dispute that since what you say is also true to a large enough extent. You have to be aware of mechanics in many pve instances tho, or at least listen to people. You cant just mindlessly press 1 and F on the ones that give actual credible rewards.....hot meta events for example.
    World bosses are on timers so even if they are easy they DO require mass gatherings (players must instigate on their own) and dedication to sit around in a map so it dont que.....its got the humbling waiting component is all im saying.

    There are enough roles i guess really in hot type events to give independent action meaning enough of the time anyways.

    Plus pvp ranked you have to work for if you want to win consistently (since if you solo que you have to take and win far lane in order to have any real control on the outcome).

    So ya i can kinda scrape together some kind of argument with stuff like this. Like I said tho you arent wrong.... to the extent that i would rather debate from your side.

  • SWI.4127SWI.4127 Member ✭✭✭

    I think there's a difference between farming and just playing for fun. Nobody "farms" in WvW. It may feel that way sometimes if you are facerolling, but people generally play for fun. Most of the ways to make money in PvE you mention are farming techniques. If you just played PvE for fun (doing story missions, exploring, whatever), then there's no way you're getting really good rewards. Maybe a rare every once in awhile from a champ. The reason you get more gold from say...chopping wood for hours on end is there is a demand for materials and nobody actually wants to do that. Because it's boring as kitten. The tradeoff you get for not getting great rewards is that WvW is mainly just to have fun fighting and skirmishing with other players on a large scale.

  • Rennie.6750Rennie.6750 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2017

    @SWI.4127 said:
    I think there's a difference between farming and just playing for fun. Nobody "farms" in WvW. It may feel that way sometimes if you are facerolling, but people generally play for fun. Most of the ways to make money in PvE you mention are farming techniques. If you just played PvE for fun (doing story missions, exploring, whatever), then there's no way you're getting really good rewards. Maybe a rare every once in awhile from a champ. The reason you get more gold from say...chopping wood for hours on end is there is a demand for materials and nobody actually wants to do that. Because it's boring as kitten. The tradeoff you get for not getting great rewards is that WvW is mainly just to have fun fighting and skirmishing with other players on a large scale.

    I too play WvW for fun mostly, I just wish I could get some meaningful character progression for it instead of getting almost all of it from the comparatively limited time i spend doing pve stuff. It's absolutely not trivial to get some gear and crafting mats from WvW. I have so many xp books that i trashed an entire stack not so long ago, and I'm not even counting the billions of useless transmutation stuff I'm getting all the kitten time. Filling tracks with such junk is really trolling regular players. Yes, if you play WvW once a month, it may feel awesome, if not, then you just feel like you've been slapped in the face by the guys adding the rewards, and then you got to watch them doing high fives in their office. :)

    And that's ONE example of terrible stuff. We're absolutely not getting more than we think, as someone said. I know exactly what I'm getting, because I played like a bean counter this week and didn't deposit anything until I was done and ready to sort out inventory stuff. The results were not pleasing at all. Good day, bad days, it was just bad in the end. I'm also taking into account the semi useless currencies and the lack of long term sink for them.

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2017

    @Rangerdeity.5847 said:
    yes but WvW players have decided to collectivly shut up recently since they are now 100x better than they were prior to pips and reward tracks. but yes the rate of rewards is still absolutely terrible. one would think the most unpredictable and challenging game mode would yield more rewards.

    Inb4 pve scrub says WvW just runs around in a blob not fully understanding that your blob consistantly and endlessly runs into the two enemy blobs. this isnt a champion loot farm like you PVE'rs are used to WvW blobs are large scale conflict seeking blobs and only one side gets the loot when the fight turns hot.

    Your wvw blobbling is nowhere near as challenging as spvp.

    You're a game format whose rewards cannot be balanced because it's always a game of who's got the bigger numbers.

    If the rewards were any good, people would be fiercely competing to transfer to the top tier servers with the largest, most active zergs. Rewards on a lower tier server would be kitten.

  • @Zenith.7301 said:

    @Rangerdeity.5847 said:
    yes but WvW players have decided to collectivly shut up recently since they are now 100x better than they were prior to pips and reward tracks. but yes the rate of rewards is still absolutely terrible. one would think the most unpredictable and challenging game mode would yield more rewards.

    Inb4 pve scrub says WvW just runs around in a blob not fully understanding that your blob consistantly and endlessly runs into the two enemy blobs. this isnt a champion loot farm like you PVE'rs are used to WvW blobs are large scale conflict seeking blobs and only one side gets the loot when the fight turns hot.

    Your wvw blobbling is nowhere near as challenging as spvp.

    You're a game format whose rewards cannot be balanced because it's always a game of who's got the bigger numbers.

    If the rewards were any good, people would be fiercely competing to transfer to the top tier servers with the largest, most active zergs. Rewards on a lower tier server would be kitten.

    I highly agree with you. Thus here is my recommendations, to prevent yalls concerns.

    All that would need to happen. Is that ANet learn the lesson ZOS learn with ESO's Cyrodiil.

    Make rewards scale towards the intensity of each fight. PvDing and avoiding fights, gets your Zerg nearly nothing. Just omni-blobbing, against players who are just completely outnumbered gets your zerg nothing.

    Drastically up the rewards giving in WvW. However scale them based off of how many players are tagging said objectives, and players. 2 to 4 players groups rewards don't split as much as say a 50 man or more blobs. Solo players would get better rewards for objectives and player kills, then a blob of 50 or more players just steamrolling others. The longer the fight over a objective the more rewards the zergs get for succeeding to capture or defend it.

    Also again unlock the AOE cap. Yes zergs would be able to deal more damage to the smaller group. However that doesn't matter anyways when a group of 15 highly coordinated players go up against map queue blobs. Then because the map queue blob can just magically, ignore a big portion of the smaller group's damage by stacking numbers. Without this crutch Zerglings would have to use more tactics, and be less of a mindless zombie horde. That is the main reason why stacked servers are just so oppressive in GW2's WvW. Removing or highly nerfing the AOE cap, would also make stacking numbers and burning tactics reasonable, and not just plainly overpowered.

    I am the one and only true Majestic Being.
    I stand now on the precipice of change.
    My perceptions on quality is refined.
    I am now the outsider looking in.
    Next level simi profession troll at your service.
    Bring the lols like no other.

  • @Zenith.7301 said:

    @Rangerdeity.5847 said:
    yes but WvW players have decided to collectivly shut up recently since they are now 100x better than they were prior to pips and reward tracks. but yes the rate of rewards is still absolutely terrible. one would think the most unpredictable and challenging game mode would yield more rewards.

    Inb4 pve scrub says WvW just runs around in a blob not fully understanding that your blob consistantly and endlessly runs into the two enemy blobs. this isnt a champion loot farm like you PVE'rs are used to WvW blobs are large scale conflict seeking blobs and only one side gets the loot when the fight turns hot.

    Your wvw blobbling is nowhere near as challenging as spvp.

    You're a game format whose rewards cannot be balanced because it's always a game of who's got the bigger numbers.

    If the rewards were any good, people would be fiercely competing to transfer to the top tier servers with the largest, most active zergs. Rewards on a lower tier server would be kitten.

    then link rewards with PPT no top tier server can guaranteed they will be in top of PPT at all times every week.

  • Ulion.5476Ulion.5476 Member ✭✭
    edited October 7, 2017

    @Reaper Alim.4176 said:
    Make rewards scale towards the intensity of each fight. PvDing and avoiding fights, gets your Zerg nearly nothing. Just omni-blobbing, against players who are just completely outnumbered gets your zerg nothing.

    Drastically up the rewards giving in WvW. However scale them based off of how many players are tagging said objectives, and players. 2 to 4 players groups rewards don't split as much as say a 50 man or more blobs. Solo players would get better rewards for objectives and player kills, then a blob of 50 or more players just steamrolling others. The longer the fight over a objective the more rewards the zergs get for succeeding to capture or defend it.

    Also again unlock the AOE cap. Yes zergs would be able to deal more damage to the smaller group. However that doesn't matter anyways when a group of 15 highly coordinated players go up against map queue blobs. Then because the map queue blob can just magically, ignore a big portion of the smaller group's damage by stacking numbers. Without this crutch Zerglings would have to use more tactics, and be less of a mindless zombie horde. That is the main reason why stacked servers are just so oppressive in GW2's WvW. Removing or highly nerfing the AOE cap, would also make stacking numbers and burning tactics reasonable, and not just plainly overpowered.

    I agree that some rewards should scale based off of the difficult of what you are doing in wvw but their needs to be a base amount of wxp and loot given. A steady ram up of rewards if you kill enemies in quick succession or without being downed would be nice. A kill streak system would need to help solo player get increased loot instead of forcing them to find zerg for greater rewards. Before rewarding wvwer based off of the difficulty of a capture or fight, A-net should really look into placing a comeback mechanic into wvw. It would have to make targeting difficult objectives for a weaker server more worthwhile.

    As for the AOE cap that is a hardware issue that A-net has stated that they can not remove it without creating more issues in wvw. In EB the biggest fights are SM fights and alot of lag is created because of the damage calculations. Unlocking the damage cap would increase the amount of damage calculation that the servers would have to handle creating more lag.

  • xDudisx.5914xDudisx.5914 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rangerdeity.5847 said:
    yes but WvW players have decided to collectivly shut up recently since they are now 100x better than they were prior to pips and reward tracks. but yes the rate of rewards is still absolutely terrible. one would think the most unpredictable and challenging game mode would yield more rewards.

    Inb4 pve scrub says WvW just runs around in a blob not fully understanding that your blob consistantly and endlessly runs into the two enemy blobs. this isnt a champion loot farm like you PVE'rs are used to WvW blobs are large scale conflict seeking blobs and only one side gets the loot when the fight turns hot.

    In the beginning of the game there were pip system, no reward track, not even rank system and objective upgrades costed gold and karma. Comparing with that makes a lot of players be happy with the current rewards of wvw. It could be improved, but it is not that bad in my point of view. They only improved over the game history. =)

  • @Ulion.5476 said:

    @Reaper Alim.4176 said:
    Make rewards scale towards the intensity of each fight. PvDing and avoiding fights, gets your Zerg nearly nothing. Just omni-blobbing, against players who are just completely outnumbered gets your zerg nothing.

    Drastically up the rewards giving in WvW. However scale them based off of how many players are tagging said objectives, and players. 2 to 4 players groups rewards don't split as much as say a 50 man or more blobs. Solo players would get better rewards for objectives and player kills, then a blob of 50 or more players just steamrolling others. The longer the fight over a objective the more rewards the zergs get for succeeding to capture or defend it.

    Also again unlock the AOE cap. Yes zergs would be able to deal more damage to the smaller group. However that doesn't matter anyways when a group of 15 highly coordinated players go up against map queue blobs. Then because the map queue blob can just magically, ignore a big portion of the smaller group's damage by stacking numbers. Without this crutch Zerglings would have to use more tactics, and be less of a mindless zombie horde. That is the main reason why stacked servers are just so oppressive in GW2's WvW. Removing or highly nerfing the AOE cap, would also make stacking numbers and burning tactics reasonable, and not just plainly overpowered.

    I agree that some rewards should scale based off of the difficult of what you are doing in wvw but their needs to be a base amount of wxp and loot given. A steady ram up of rewards if you kill enemies in quick succession or without being downed would be nice. A kill streak system would need to help solo player get increased loot instead of forcing them to find zerg for greater rewards. Before rewarding wvwer based off of the difficulty of a capture or fight, A-net should really look into placing a comeback mechanic into wvw. It would have to make targeting difficult objectives for a weaker server more worthwhile.

    As for the AOE cap that is a hardware issue that A-net has stated that they can not remove it without creating more issues in wvw. In EB the biggest fights are SM fights and alot of lag is created because of the damage calculations. Unlocking the damage cap would increase the amount of damage calculation that the servers would have to handle creating more lag.

    What you just proposed here. Pretty much just rewards players for stacking servers, and stomping lesser populated servers. Your solution would only add to the problem. Not help it.

    Also I don't think you even read my post, or you didn't comprehend it at all. Under the solution I stated here. You would get more rewards, with the less players you ran with.

    I also even had a middle ground for zergs as well. Being that you are rewarded more, for how intense the battle is. In other words a Zerg just stomping 5 players and PvDing would get nearly nothing. But a zerg of players fighting another zerg of players would be well rewarded for capturing and defending the objective.

    I believe this would give more players incentive to split up. Also this would give zerg players more incentive to look for fights, against other zerg groups. But will not reward zerg groups from just simply PvDing uncontested objectives. Or zerglings that just stack one or two servers for easy kills and rewards, would be rewarded much less as well.

    But I doubt any real proposal that make stacking and mowing down lessor numbers or PvDing less rewarding. Would be accepted by the GW2 community. Time to just face it. The players of this game just want stack servers and win unchallenged and uncontested. It's the main reason why WvW is offered the least amount of rewards per the effort. Because most players would just stack servers and trample over the much smaller populated servers.

    I am the one and only true Majestic Being.
    I stand now on the precipice of change.
    My perceptions on quality is refined.
    I am now the outsider looking in.
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  • Jumpin Lumpix.6108Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VaaCrow.3076 said:
    I don't play WvW for rewards, i play it to have fun in wvw. Maybe you should reconsider playing if all you care about is getting useless stuff filling your bags.

    Funny all i see is wvw clearing out after wvwers get their diamond chest, mid sunday. Also the expansion which was all pve based, pretty much destroyed the wvw population. So I'd say you're in the minority.

  • @Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

    @VaaCrow.3076 said:
    I don't play WvW for rewards, i play it to have fun in wvw. Maybe you should reconsider playing if all you care about is getting useless stuff filling your bags.

    Funny all i see is wvw clearing out after wvwers get their diamond chest, mid sunday. Also the expansion which was all pve based, pretty much destroyed the wvw population. So I'd say you're in the minority.

    Nah since expansion I now barely plays WvW or PvP. I have another MMO that I WvWish in. I also have a dedicated sPvP game I plays now. Actually since the expansion most of my will, play GW2 at all is darn close to being completely drain.

    Rewards from WvW is very very bad compared to the other game modes. If you are just playing WvW in GW2 just for the rewards. Then you are clearly doing many things wrong. Because in PvE, even in PvP you'll get the same rewards in under a fraction of the time. For only a fraction of the effort.

    I am the one and only true Majestic Being.
    I stand now on the precipice of change.
    My perceptions on quality is refined.
    I am now the outsider looking in.
    Next level simi profession troll at your service.
    Bring the lols like no other.

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

    @VaaCrow.3076 said:
    I don't play WvW for rewards, i play it to have fun in wvw. Maybe you should reconsider playing if all you care about is getting useless stuff filling your bags.

    Funny all i see is wvw clearing out after wvwers get their diamond chest, mid sunday. Also the expansion which was all pve based, pretty much destroyed the wvw population. So I'd say you're in the minority.

    I'd hardly call this expansion PvE either. The PvE maps are empty outside bounty trains since there's barely any replayable content, and the rewards are even worse than in WvW. The xpac added no dungeons/fractals, or raid wings with its release.

    These PoF maps will be dead in a month or two since they are so bad in rewards and replayability compared to HoT.

    At least WvW is pvp, and pvp is spontaneous so you always get new experiences that keep you coming back. It's why LoL can thrive on a single map.

  • Zephyra.4709Zephyra.4709 Member ✭✭✭

    I think the following would be good improvements consider you make valid points regarding content rewards not being up to par (I'm at work so can't check in game correct me if I'm wrong on any of these):

    • Exotic gear from the vendors needs wider stat selection (lol @ no dire stat of all things....)
    • Introduce more mats/items from WvW for MF/crafting that create solid income for WvWers
    • Ascended trinkets from WvW should at least function parallel to BSF ruby trinkets (e.g; Bloodstone Capacitor to swap stats) considering the cost of Tickets etc

    I won't make any comments regarding WvW legendary armor since I'm not working towards it (yet).

    I think in general terms loot + rewards have improved in WvW (compare current-day WvW to 2013 variant) but perhaps they could've been better implemented.

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They could also have the time it takes to complete a reward track.

  • Theocraft.6053Theocraft.6053 Member ✭✭✭

    I remember when I played WvW after buying game in 2013. Wow this is so much fun! Wow there are almost no rewards at all! Wow I am leaving!

    Right now, in 2017, the situation is infinitely better. I think that in 2021 WvW will actually not only be fun to play, but also rewarding.

  • @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    I find it easier and less effort to earn rewards playing WvW than running dungeons. Dungeons get boring after a while; WvW frequently surprises me.

    Dungeon is still faster to get rewards. But yes, It's super boring. I'd rather roam in wvw to troll ppl around than spend my life in dungeon.

  • Torolan.5816Torolan.5816 Member ✭✭✭

    I play wvw to torture my fellow wvw player with my inadequacy and for the rage involved in map chat because of this or that. PvP is no fun as people have no manners and are pretty bu.thurt all the time, wvw mostly does not cross a certain line. Any compensation I get for this is just like covering your expenses if you work for charity.

    The introduction of paths and the cost free automatisation of castle defenses are already a big step up from the really dark ages of pay for upgrades wvw, OP.

  • I mean even if you look at PvP the rewards are better there too.

    Completing the league track rewards you with THREE Grandmaster commendations, meanwhile wvw gives none and wants you to craft them all yourself.

    How come finishing diamond every week in wvw doesn't give at least 1? PvP seasons last about 4 weeks. Since you can only earn 3 per season there, and the season lasts 4 weeks, its not that much of a stretch to give 1/week to people who finish the wvw track.

    I just find it laughable that the vendor that sells legendary armor precursors for wvw wants you to give him commendations that can only be obtained via crafting, meanwhile pvpers can avoid crafting altogether as they're simply given commendations.

  • MarkoNS.3261MarkoNS.3261 Member ✭✭✭

    i agree that wvw has bad rewards, in my opinion it should have the liquid gold rewards from pvp in reward chests like crossing from wood to next one etc like in pvp. the main reason for this is because if you spend 5 hour in pvp you get gold rewards for those 5 hours but wvw ignores that and doesnt reward the same time spent, its basically the game saying this mode is not as important as pvp and deserves less rewards. and if we are honest most of the people who go to wvw care about rewards if they were better the more people would join and the mode would not stagnate or degrade.

    Kittenizer Tm in Full ACTION.

  • MiniMe.1960MiniMe.1960 Member ✭✭
    edited October 16, 2017

    @Jana.6831 said:

    @Rennie.6750 said:
    No, that was just putting things into perspective, if I mentioned the relative privation fallacy, nobody would know what it means.

    Right now I'm playing a game where I get maybe 5 items (which sell very cheap) a day. So what? When I farmed the silverwastes to get the AP I didn't know where to put all that loot. It really annoyed me and it also annoyed me in wvw in the end because I felt I was clicking wiggle chests more often than clicking on an enemy. I don't get this sentiment, for real. And people complained that much that they're drowning in loot, the TP crumbles (good luck with selling anything your bank is full of) and yet they still complain. I honestly don't get it.

    ETA: And just saying but your perception of what PvE players are getting is wrong. For teq and for meta events. Like I already said. One dev once said that we're getting more than we think and since I never cared what I was getting (so viewed everything objectively) I agree that WvW is about on par with PvE meta maps, just that bosses usually have yellow items. There is no 'guaranteed yellow' in wvw and that's maybe for the better as the karma trains would roll over everything were that the case.
    ETA²: And like I also said: The MORE LOOT cries cause also quite a lot of problems. So how about finding another game with better rewards for yourself?

    WvW loot on par with PvE!? Go back to your cave little troll.

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2017

    Well, its true that WvW doesnt give much gold but who logs in to farm silverwastes anyways. All world bosses are boring, high level fractals are easy and only challenging PvE content in this game are raids that is like 3 hours(?) for full clear in a week, and even that gets repetitive after 1st time.

    If they'd base the rewards on how challenging gamemode is, WvW would be terrible. Everyone farming gold there, PvDing towers, PvE guilds getting farmed by each other for gold. Ok, so would this be fun? Truth is, no. WvW is fun because lack of rewards, first of all people need to be mature enough to not play THE GAME just for gold to enter, secondly you will get full legendary armor eventually from doing WvW.

    What else do you need? Legendary weapons? Tbf, ascended drop rate from WvW is enough to supply for 80% of the asc weps necessary and you really dont want other than celestial staff with energy + concec sigil on staff for guardian etc, which makes the stat swapping relatively useless unless you wanna swap sigils everytime. lets see Bifrost, swappable stats with awful skin, 3000 gold, thats worth 60 ascended staffs, hmmmm.... Ok, think I made my point clear pointing out that bifrost is just expensive gemstore skin.

    If you want enough gold to have LOTS of extra, do that 3 hour PvE raid clear every week, or fractal dailies everyday for 30 min. Simple enough,

    Ri Ba - WvW Commander/hard carry
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    Diamond Legend

  • @Threather.9354 said:
    Well, its true that WvW doesnt give much gold but who logs in to farm silverwastes anyways. All world bosses are boring, high level fractals are easy and only challenging PvE content in this game are raids that is like 3 hours(?) for full clear in a week, and even that gets repetitive after 1st time.

    If they'd base the rewards on how challenging gamemode is, WvW would be terrible. Everyone farming gold there, PvDing towers, PvE guilds getting farmed by each other for gold. Ok, so would this be fun? Truth is, no. WvW is fun because lack of rewards, first of all people need to be mature enough to not play THE GAME just for gold to enter, secondly you will get full legendary armor eventually from doing WvW.

    What else do you need? Legendary weapons? Tbf, ascended drop rate from WvW is enough to supply for 80% of the asc weps necessary and you really dont want other than celestial staff with energy + concec sigil on staff for guardian etc, which makes the stat swapping relatively useless unless you wanna swap sigils everytime. lets see Bifrost, swappable stats with awful skin, 3000 gold, thats worth 60 ascended staffs, hmmmm.... Ok, think I made my point clear pointing out that bifrost is just expensive gemstore skin.

    If you want enough gold to have LOTS of extra, do that 3 hour PvE raid clear every week, or fractal dailies everyday for 30 min. Simple enough,

    Agree with most of what you say. But I don't think WvW is fun because "lack of rewards", it only saves us from to many farmers. I also play many classes and mostly roaming, so I have many sets. My Ranger alone has 6 complete exotic Armor sets + 3 ascended Armor sets. The Engie 4 exotics + the same 3 ascended Armor sets. Weapons are about 35-40 ascended luckily Account bound. So yeah, I wouldn't be unhappy for better rewards. At least in about 3 months I have a complete legendary medium Armor set and don't have to worry about gold to try out another build.
    PS. My gold is earned through TP but it seems I'm not quiet as good as Jana in it.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2017

    @Cerby.1069 said:
    It's because of the "winning vs losing doesn't matter" mentality they have taken with the mode.

    The alternative is far worse because it incentivises server stacking. That's the last thing we want.

    @Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:
    Funny all i see is wvw clearing out after wvwers get their diamond chest, mid sunday. Also the expansion which was all pve based, pretty much destroyed the wvw population. So I'd say you're in the minority.

    Here is McKenna Berdrow saying that's exactly the player behaviour that they don't want (start at 26 minutes 24 seconds):

    Necro. Never knowingly blasting combo fields since 2012.

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