Current Wvw Meta - Page 9 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Current Wvw Meta

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  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2019

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    Once the scourge nerfs hit:

    Melee death ball time =D

    fb: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWwAYd7lRwkYYsHmJO6L+PdA-zVRYgRN7M4SpnQopCIzEo7IQtDSYsHeL0vpB-w
    spb: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAweJlNwuYYMJ2JesS1vLA-zVRYgRHTM4CppCIwUo7IQlDSYsHeL0PDA-w
    scrapper: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAo6lNw8YPMH2JeyTntKA-zVJYjRDfZkUBUdC47BJU2Avl23sA-w
    tempest: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgEgEWGBDhxwcYlYKdd2uB-zVJYjRDfZkUBUdC47BJU2Avl23sA-w

    last slot is a flex between herald, reaper, staff DD, berserker, etc. Anything with high power spike damage.

    Why it works:
    fb brings: damage, CC, high power retal, quickness, boons, stab, cleanse
    spb brings: damage, boon rip, immob, CC, 25 might, cleanse, anti-barrier
    scrapper brings: healing, cleanse, stealth, anti-stealth, boons, superspeed, res, stab
    tempest brings: healing, cleanse, CC, immob, aura support, 40% protection, res

    just truck through anything by chaining bubbles. 3/5 bring heavy CC, both hard (stun, pull, etc) and soft (chill, immob, cripple) to keep people in the bubble and disrupt enemy bubbles. Stay on top of range comps using CC and superspeed, blow fb's tome 3 to get in range and then never leave it.

    The retal alone kills any ranged aoe classes, every aoe deals 1.5k back. It causes meteor shower to kill the ele before they can even mist form

    I like reaper for the last slot with traited nothing can save you- 69% uptime on unblockable attacks, which is devastating with 10k autos in reaper shroud. reaper also brings plenty of boon rip and CC =D

    Most of it seems reasonable but you shouldn't forget that rev is the main DD in wvw with even higher range then the scourge atm and it won't get nerfed at least not yet. On top oft that rev rocks everything top DPS build in PvE raids and double rev won both big PvP tournaments in EU and USA so far I read on this board.

    The Tempest build is nearly identical to mine I use still staff because of heal but unlike others you seems to understand that Shock Aura can't be evaded. One other thing the reeze trait will be deleted I don't know what we will have then instead but you may need to change that then.

    This setup I think is perfect for 5-10 people but when you are bigger other guilds will hunt you and they bring their revs with them. > @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    meta for now since we will have patch later:

    1. quickness fb
    2. alacrity renegade
    3. boon corrupt scourge
    4. support scrap
    5. cc spell breaker

    =)

    Nice I thought so.. well my server lags extremely behind with the meta I can only see what others play . Is renegade the main heal ? What legends does the build use ? What stats do you use for quickness fb?

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:
    Nice I thought so.. well my server lags extremely behind with the meta I can only see what others play . Is renegade the main heal ? What legends does the build use ? What stats do you use for quickness fb?

    divinergade uses uses diviner gear, demon dwarf legends. quickness fb is standard minstrel I think, you could probably get away with a heal/ burn variant. main supports are fb and scrap.

    this. =)

    you can go burn by plague doctors on fb or in renegade for condi staff shorbow with heals

    ^_^

    plague doctors is the epic stats right now. of course minstrel still great.

    I was asking because in theory you could do things differently especially if you insist on a high protection up time.
    You could run with 2 FBs on as old school main heal other as Qheal with a bit more boon duration/dps Qheal could also run with axe and extra might so that no rev need to take glint in this group , so far you don't want to take superspeed. On top of this you have a lot of agis and without glint you can take another demon stance

    Problem with any of those setups is engis and warriors need to take and extra group(s)

    Another possibility is taking renegade as secondary heal while Kallas spirit die fast in battle they can still give a lot of protection up time. You also can prestack it. I don't know how this works in wvw but it would free one dps slot every second group. I building a test built to see how it goes.

    we never have problems :) it could be worth testing on your part to see. since this is based on our raid experience and not theory. if yours is better, please share; it'll improve the pool of information.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    Nope, definately not.

    What do you want with the condition damage? Wasted stat.
    Concentration?
    You only have a few boons, and those that you have are long enough, that they are more likely to be ripped before they run out. Exception are 2 seconds of resistance, but horn trait brings that to like 2 1/2 seconds, and you need a ton more concentration to increase that.
    Wasted stat.

    If i wanted more precision id run a few zealot pieces, but i dont rly care if i have 8 or 20% critchance without furry, so i take the armor and healing power.

    Dogged march is useless, since you have a ton of clears and get regeneration from guards, cull the weak sadly has 5 second cd globally and not per target, but still best trait out of those 3.

    Pure strike doesnt do much since you wont hit as hard anyways, also again, keeping enemies in your groups dmg with immo provides more dmg overall.

    Shrug it of or empower allies is completely flavor based, more support or more group Dmg, whatever floats your boat, both are good.

    Using balanced stance instead of featherfood is basically a must to get the bubble in more reliably, since you often run infront of your guard to pull it off, you wont get stab or get it ripped early. Maybe with a rly good guard you can use featherfoot, to hope that the resistance wont get ripped, when your stab is turned into fear, to prevent interrupt, but with stab turned to fear a single cc will stop you anyways, even with resistance.

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKxEIiNssAmI7ihxOxzZa9dB-zVIYfUzXKNFCZGBdXAhnAqONCYTD-w

    Maybe too much armor, but best stat combo atm to get maxed healingpower and power for warri.

    preference i suppose. i'm used to running zerker wars without any issues in zerg fights. to much armor seems a waste for me. then again, it's nice that there's this gap that doesn't need to be maxed out to get the intended result. :)

    Dude, ive played zerker warrior too, its not that hard, your build just had a bunch of wasted stats thrown into it. Why would i ever want that?
    I want to min max my builds depending on what they are supposed to do, and throwing in some stats that arent worth their salt is just not doing it.

    You walk in here, tell me that your build is probably better than mine (without even fully knowing it), than throw that random mess at me and when i tell you why i think mine is better you make no points, but tell me that you muste be the better player lol

    Ironically im wasting stats in armor while you put them in condi dmg and concentration, yikes.
    My build has more power, more healingpower and more armor.

    Ive told you, id do with less armor, but clerics are the best stats to max out healingpower, while maintaing a certain amount of power.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2019

    why you guys even talking about healing power warrios lol? do marauders/ zerk with durability. maybe some knights/ cavaliers.

  • @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    Theres a couple problems with plaguedoctors heal/burn hybrid.

    -First, you need to run honor if you plan to heal which means you can either run radiance for f1 refresh or virtues for permeating wrath. Running one or the other though greatly reduces your burst and damage in general in comparison to running both with a damage/boon support hybrid.

    -Second, there's no good ways to get toughness, burn duration, and outgoing healing % all on the same build. If you're healing without monks, you're a really ineffective healer. If you run with base 2s burns, you have terrible damage. If you run enough toughness to survive in melee, you lose either healing or damage.

    you'd obviously go with permeating wrath. running without it isn't a thing lol. you don't need to do top dmg, altho even with 2s burns burnbrand will still get near top anyways. the point is to not be dead weight in the dps department and to make the enemy waste cds. putting points into burn duration is a bad idea in zergs. I wouldn't go past 3s personally, i'm sure 4s would work in a lot of cases but that's against potato farmers.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    why you guys even talking about healing power warrios lol? do marauders/ zerk with durability. maybe some knights/ cavaliers.

    Because healing my group 15k with each shout and giving 42k barrier with horn is a nice added bonus to all the boonrip, condi remove and cc.

    I cant stress enough that you dont need a dmg warrior in zergfights, when there are classes out there, hitting for 10k on 1200 range lol

  • @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    why you guys even talking about healing power warrios lol? do marauders/ zerk with durability. maybe some knights/ cavaliers.

    Because healing my group 15k with each shout and giving 42k barrier with horn is a nice added bonus to all the boonrip, condi remove and cc.

    I cant stress enough that you dont need a dmg warrior in zergfights, when there are classes out there, hitting for 10k on 1200 range lol

    no, adding up the numbers might make it seem more powerful but that's not how it really works. its misleading. the shouts heal for 3k per person and 4k barrier on a 20s cd. warrio is not meant to be a healer, its a complete waste of a slot.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    Theres a couple problems with plaguedoctors heal/burn hybrid.

    -First, you need to run honor if you plan to heal which means you can either run radiance for f1 refresh or virtues for permeating wrath. Running one or the other though greatly reduces your burst and damage in general in comparison to running both with a damage/boon support hybrid.

    -Second, there's no good ways to get toughness, burn duration, and outgoing healing % all on the same build. If you're healing without monks, you're a really ineffective healer. If you run with base 2s burns, you have terrible damage. If you run enough toughness to survive in melee, you lose either healing or damage.

    you'd obviously go with permeating wrath. running without it isn't a thing lol. you don't need to do top dmg, altho even with 2s burns burnbrand will still get near top anyways. the point is to not be dead weight in the dps department and to make the enemy waste cds. putting points into burn duration is a bad idea in zergs. I wouldn't go past 3s personally, i'm sure 4s would work in a lot of cases but that's against potato farmers.

    Yeah, 3s duration is the sweet spot I've noticed. To get it though you either give up monk runes or you give up healing power since there isn't an expertise/healing stat set. Balthazar runes are +50% damage output, monk are +25% healing output.

    If you give up monks, you may as well just go full damage since the healing left isn't great. If you keep monks, you might as well go power/heal since it'll have better damage. Permeating wrath alone isnt enough to make a difference if you don't have any burn duration, especially if you're running plaguedoctors with apothecary since your condi damage will be pretty low

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    why you guys even talking about healing power warrios lol? do marauders/ zerk with durability. maybe some knights/ cavaliers.

    Because healing my group 15k with each shout and giving 42k barrier with horn is a nice added bonus to all the boonrip, condi remove and cc.

    I cant stress enough that you dont need a dmg warrior in zergfights, when there are classes out there, hitting for 10k on 1200 range lol

    no, adding up the numbers might make it seem more powerful but that's not how it really works. its misleading. the shouts heal for 3k per person and 4k barrier on a 20s cd. warrio is not meant to be a healer, its a complete waste of a slot.

    Agreed, if warrior had a way to pulse heals more frequently it'd work but it isn't worth investing into healing power for an extra 1k heal on shouts. Better to focus on immob, CC, boonrip, and damage

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    why you guys even talking about healing power warrios lol? do marauders/ zerk with durability. maybe some knights/ cavaliers.

    Because healing my group 15k with each shout and giving 42k barrier with horn is a nice added bonus to all the boonrip, condi remove and cc.

    I cant stress enough that you dont need a dmg warrior in zergfights, when there are classes out there, hitting for 10k on 1200 range lol

    no, adding up the numbers might make it seem more powerful but that's not how it really works. its misleading. the shouts heal for 3k per person and 4k barrier on a 20s cd. warrio is not meant to be a healer, its a complete waste of a slot.

    Agreed, if warrior had a way to pulse heals more frequently it'd work but it isn't worth investing into healing power for an extra 1k heal on shouts. Better to focus on immob, CC, boonrip, and damage

    I never said that warrior is a healer. Period.
    I said its a nice added bonus on top of the other things i do (ripping boons, cleaning a ton of condis and dishing out cc's to keep ppl in my teams bomb)

    And he does that VERY well.
    And again, why, why do you need a melee class as dmg dealer? Nobody told me so far, i can tell you that ppl die in my bubble, regardless of me playing a full zerker warri, or a shoutwar with defensive stats (i played both for years)
    They die, and that while im not even using a dmg skill, because the bubble is a channel, and as we all know you cant cast anything with casttime while channeling.

    So if my zerg is doing enough dmg to kill enemies without a zerker warrior doing anything, whats the only logical thing to do?

    Yes, add more dmg with a zerker warrior... Wrong.

    You add more support to keep that zerg alive, so it can constantly throw pressure at your enemy and keep on pushing without giving your enemy time to breathe.

  • @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    If you give up monks, you may as well just go full damage since the healing left isn't great. If you keep monks, you might as well go power/heal since it'll have better damage. Permeating wrath alone isnt enough to make a difference if you don't have any burn duration, especially if you're running plaguedoctors with apothecary since your condi damage will be pretty low

    well at that point you might as well go full valk or cele and get 2 other supports. the point of burnbrand heals is to not have to do that. again its not about top dmg.

  • @RedShark.9548 said:
    They die, and that while im not even using a dmg skill, because the bubble is a channel, and as we all know you cant cast anything with casttime while channeling.

    positioning and invulns man. you can still stack toughness and do decent damage.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    They die, and that while im not even using a dmg skill, because the bubble is a channel, and as we all know you cant cast anything with casttime while channeling.

    positioning and invulns man. you can still stack toughness and do decent damage.

    did...did you read my post ?
    am i talking against a wall?

    what does positioning even have to do with that ?
    i said my enemies die inside the bubble that im channeling.

    english is not my mothertongue, but its not that bad, is it ?

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2019

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKxEIiNssAmI7ihxOxzZa9dB-zVIYfUzXKNFCZGBdXAhnAqONCYTD-w

    Maybe too much armor, but best stat combo atm to get maxed healingpower and power for warri.

    That's close to the build we use internally, except defiant stance as heal and break enchantments over FGJ.

    Gear wise it's a mix of crusader weapons with zealot armor+trinkets.

    I second the notion of Balanced Stance being almost mandatory over Featherfoot Grace. Chances as warrior are very high that you won't be close to your guard (even more if you sword 2 in to be on time with WoD with the 1200 bomb or if you were off revealing during GvGs) for stab or support.

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    why you guys even talking about healing power warrios lol? do marauders/ zerk with durability. maybe some knights/ cavaliers.

    Because with the changes of the last patch and scourge bombs hitting 10 people, the condition pressure in organized groups was very high and shout warrior is, as mentioned, second to only heal tempests in condition removal since the warhorn and tactics rework. Might as well make use of the warhorn and shout cleanses stat wise.

    Now this is obviously more for static groups and gvg, less for publics and it might change with scourges nerf to 5 targets.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Because with the changes of the last patch and scourge bombs hitting 10 people, the condition pressure in organized groups was very high and shout warrior is, as mentioned, second to only heal tempests in condition removal since the warhorn and tactics rework. Might as well make use of the warhorn and shout cleanses stat wise.

    last I checked you don't need healing power for cleanses. the heals war can output is less then mediocre. might as well stack toughness and go with damage if survivability is a problem.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Because with the changes of the last patch and scourge bombs hitting 10 people, the condition pressure in organized groups was very high and shout warrior is, as mentioned, second to only heal tempests in condition removal since the warhorn and tactics rework. Might as well make use of the warhorn and shout cleanses stat wise.

    last I checked you don't need healing power for cleanses. the heals war can output is less then mediocre. might as well stack toughness and go with damage if survivability is a problem.

    If you need toughness as warrior with defense as traitline, Shrug-it-Off, Balanced Stance and Defiant Stance, you first need to learn to play your class. Might as well take some heal power to benefit those shouts while cleansing.

    Without 5 second weapon swap and with sword+wh plus hammer for stuns, your damage will be subpar at best, no matter the stats.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    Once the scourge nerfs hit:

    Melee death ball time =D

    fb: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWwAYd7lRwkYYsHmJO6L+PdA-zVRYgRN7M4SpnQopCIzEo7IQtDSYsHeL0vpB-w
    spb: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAweJlNwuYYMJ2JesS1vLA-zVRYgRHTM4CppCIwUo7IQlDSYsHeL0PDA-w
    scrapper: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAo6lNw8YPMH2JeyTntKA-zVJYjRDfZkUBUdC47BJU2Avl23sA-w
    tempest: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgEgEWGBDhxwcYlYKdd2uB-zVJYjRDfZkUBUdC47BJU2Avl23sA-w

    last slot is a flex between herald, reaper, staff DD, berserker, etc. Anything with high power spike damage.

    Why it works:
    fb brings: damage, CC, high power retal, quickness, boons, stab, cleanse
    spb brings: damage, boon rip, immob, CC, 25 might, cleanse, anti-barrier
    scrapper brings: healing, cleanse, stealth, anti-stealth, boons, superspeed, res, stab
    tempest brings: healing, cleanse, CC, immob, aura support, 40% protection, res

    just truck through anything by chaining bubbles. 3/5 bring heavy CC, both hard (stun, pull, etc) and soft (chill, immob, cripple) to keep people in the bubble and disrupt enemy bubbles. Stay on top of range comps using CC and superspeed, blow fb's tome 3 to get in range and then never leave it.

    The retal alone kills any ranged aoe classes, every aoe deals 1.5k back. It causes meteor shower to kill the ele before they can even mist form

    I like reaper for the last slot with traited nothing can save you- 69% uptime on unblockable attacks, which is devastating with 10k autos in reaper shroud. reaper also brings plenty of boon rip and CC =D

    Most of it seems reasonable but you shouldn't forget that rev is the main DD in wvw with even higher range then the scourge atm and it won't get nerfed at least not yet. On top oft that rev rocks everything top DPS build in PvE raids and double rev won both big PvP tournaments in EU and USA so far I read on this board.

    The Tempest build is nearly identical to mine I use still staff because of heal but unlike others you seems to understand that Shock Aura can't be evaded. One other thing the reeze trait will be deleted I don't know what we will have then instead but you may need to change that then.

    This setup I think is perfect for 5-10 people but when you are bigger other guilds will hunt you and they bring their revs with them. > @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    meta for now since we will have patch later:

    1. quickness fb
    2. alacrity renegade
    3. boon corrupt scourge
    4. support scrap
    5. cc spell breaker

    =)

    Nice I thought so.. well my server lags extremely behind with the meta I can only see what others play . Is renegade the main heal ? What legends does the build use ? What stats do you use for quickness fb?

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:
    Nice I thought so.. well my server lags extremely behind with the meta I can only see what others play . Is renegade the main heal ? What legends does the build use ? What stats do you use for quickness fb?

    divinergade uses uses diviner gear, demon dwarf legends. quickness fb is standard minstrel I think, you could probably get away with a heal/ burn variant. main supports are fb and scrap.

    this. =)

    you can go burn by plague doctors on fb or in renegade for condi staff shorbow with heals

    ^_^

    plague doctors is the epic stats right now. of course minstrel still great.

    I was asking because in theory you could do things differently especially if you insist on a high protection up time.
    You could run with 2 FBs on as old school main heal other as Qheal with a bit more boon duration/dps Qheal could also run with axe and extra might so that no rev need to take glint in this group , so far you don't want to take superspeed. On top of this you have a lot of agis and without glint you can take another demon stance

    Problem with any of those setups is engis and warriors need to take and extra group(s)

    Another possibility is taking renegade as secondary heal while Kallas spirit die fast in battle they can still give a lot of protection up time. You also can prestack it. I don't know how this works in wvw but it would free one dps slot every second group. I building a test built to see how it goes.

    we never have problems :) it could be worth testing on your part to see. since this is based on our raid experience and not theory. if yours is better, please share; it'll improve the pool of information.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    Nope, definately not.

    What do you want with the condition damage? Wasted stat.
    Concentration?
    You only have a few boons, and those that you have are long enough, that they are more likely to be ripped before they run out. Exception are 2 seconds of resistance, but horn trait brings that to like 2 1/2 seconds, and you need a ton more concentration to increase that.
    Wasted stat.

    If i wanted more precision id run a few zealot pieces, but i dont rly care if i have 8 or 20% critchance without furry, so i take the armor and healing power.

    Dogged march is useless, since you have a ton of clears and get regeneration from guards, cull the weak sadly has 5 second cd globally and not per target, but still best trait out of those 3.

    Pure strike doesnt do much since you wont hit as hard anyways, also again, keeping enemies in your groups dmg with immo provides more dmg overall.

    Shrug it of or empower allies is completely flavor based, more support or more group Dmg, whatever floats your boat, both are good.

    Using balanced stance instead of featherfood is basically a must to get the bubble in more reliably, since you often run infront of your guard to pull it off, you wont get stab or get it ripped early. Maybe with a rly good guard you can use featherfoot, to hope that the resistance wont get ripped, when your stab is turned into fear, to prevent interrupt, but with stab turned to fear a single cc will stop you anyways, even with resistance.

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKxEIiNssAmI7ihxOxzZa9dB-zVIYfUzXKNFCZGBdXAhnAqONCYTD-w

    Maybe too much armor, but best stat combo atm to get maxed healingpower and power for warri.

    preference i suppose. i'm used to running zerker wars without any issues in zerg fights. to much armor seems a waste for me. then again, it's nice that there's this gap that doesn't need to be maxed out to get the intended result. :)

    Dude, ive played zerker warrior too, its not that hard, your build just had a bunch of wasted stats thrown into it. Why would i ever want that?
    I want to min max my builds depending on what they are supposed to do, and throwing in some stats that arent worth their salt is just not doing it.

    You walk in here, tell me that your build is probably better than mine (without even fully knowing it), than throw that random mess at me and when i tell you why i think mine is better you make no points, but tell me that you muste be the better player lol

    Ironically im wasting stats in armor while you put them in condi dmg and concentration, yikes.
    My build has more power, more healingpower and more armor.

    Ive told you, id do with less armor, but clerics are the best stats to max out healingpower, while maintaing a certain amount of power.

    :P ok

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    why you guys even talking about healing power warrios lol? do marauders/ zerk with durability. maybe some knights/ cavaliers.

    that's too tanky. all zerk is okay :3. about the topic, well, he brought it up, and to be fair i do want to see warriors do shouts again. i miss those fgj hummer stun moments. :3 now all i do si hammer gs. hehe

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    Theres a couple problems with plaguedoctors heal/burn hybrid.

    -First, you need to run honor if you plan to heal which means you can either run radiance for f1 refresh or virtues for permeating wrath. Running one or the other though greatly reduces your burst and damage in general in comparison to running both with a damage/boon support hybrid.

    -Second, there's no good ways to get toughness, burn duration, and outgoing healing % all on the same build. If you're healing without monks, you're a really ineffective healer. If you run with base 2s burns, you have terrible damage. If you run enough toughness to survive in melee, you lose either healing or damage.

    you'd obviously go with permeating wrath. running without it isn't a thing lol. you don't need to do top dmg, altho even with 2s burns burnbrand will still get near top anyways. the point is to not be dead weight in the dps department and to make the enemy waste cds. putting points into burn duration is a bad idea in zergs. I wouldn't go past 3s personally, i'm sure 4s would work in a lot of cases but that's against potato farmers.

    i never thought about maxing damage as a fb since i like it as a support, so like stand the wall says, it's simply for not being dead weight. but i do run minstrel fb right now because i need to be tanky to tank and heal and do our quickness thing. although why i like plague doctors is i can do almost the same thing. even in plagues i'd use monk. it's a hybrid that synergizes not the most optimal for a certain job.

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    Theres a couple problems with plaguedoctors heal/burn hybrid.

    -First, you need to run honor if you plan to heal which means you can either run radiance for f1 refresh or virtues for permeating wrath. Running one or the other though greatly reduces your burst and damage in general in comparison to running both with a damage/boon support hybrid.

    -Second, there's no good ways to get toughness, burn duration, and outgoing healing % all on the same build. If you're healing without monks, you're a really ineffective healer. If you run with base 2s burns, you have terrible damage. If you run enough toughness to survive in melee, you lose either healing or damage.

    you'd obviously go with permeating wrath. running without it isn't a thing lol. you don't need to do top dmg, altho even with 2s burns burnbrand will still get near top anyways. the point is to not be dead weight in the dps department and to make the enemy waste cds. putting points into burn duration is a bad idea in zergs. I wouldn't go past 3s personally, i'm sure 4s would work in a lot of cases but that's against potato farmers.

    Yeah, 3s duration is the sweet spot I've noticed. To get it though you either give up monk runes or you give up healing power since there isn't an expertise/healing stat set. Balthazar runes are +50% damage output, monk are +25% healing output.

    If you give up monks, you may as well just go full damage since the healing left isn't great. If you keep monks, you might as well go power/heal since it'll have better damage. Permeating wrath alone isnt enough to make a difference if you don't have any burn duration, especially if you're running plaguedoctors with apothecary since your condi damage will be pretty low

    the burst heals may not be as great as to self but, it's an option, and you won't be the only healer. :3> @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    why you guys even talking about healing power warrios lol? do marauders/ zerk with durability. maybe some knights/ cavaliers.

    Because healing my group 15k with each shout and giving 42k barrier with horn is a nice added bonus to all the boonrip, condi remove and cc.

    I cant stress enough that you dont need a dmg warrior in zergfights, when there are classes out there, hitting for 10k on 1200 range lol

    no, adding up the numbers might make it seem more powerful but that's not how it really works. its misleading. the shouts heal for 3k per person and 4k barrier on a 20s cd. warrio is not meant to be a healer, its a complete waste of a slot.

    sadly sniff, but that doesn't mean we can try hard. :3 i love my ccs on war and it helps that it can remove condi and heal a bit to support the blasting of waters with that healing power. unlike red, i like a bit of boon duration so the blasts i give last a bit longer.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    why you guys even talking about healing power warrios lol? do marauders/ zerk with durability. maybe some knights/ cavaliers.

    Because healing my group 15k with each shout and giving 42k barrier with horn is a nice added bonus to all the boonrip, condi remove and cc.

    I cant stress enough that you dont need a dmg warrior in zergfights, when there are classes out there, hitting for 10k on 1200 range lol

    no, adding up the numbers might make it seem more powerful but that's not how it really works. its misleading. the shouts heal for 3k per person and 4k barrier on a 20s cd. warrio is not meant to be a healer, its a complete waste of a slot.

    Agreed, if warrior had a way to pulse heals more frequently it'd work but it isn't worth investing into healing power for an extra 1k heal on shouts. Better to focus on immob, CC, boonrip, and damage

    I never said that warrior is a healer. Period.
    I said its a nice added bonus on top of the other things i do (ripping boons, cleaning a ton of condis and dishing out cc's to keep ppl in my teams bomb)

    And he does that VERY well.
    And again, why, why do you need a melee class as dmg dealer? Nobody told me so far, i can tell you that ppl die in my bubble, regardless of me playing a full zerker warri, or a shoutwar with defensive stats (i played both for years)
    They die, and that while im not even using a dmg skill, because the bubble is a channel, and as we all know you cant cast anything with casttime while channeling.

    So if my zerg is doing enough dmg to kill enemies without a zerker warrior doing anything, whats the only logical thing to do?

    Yes, add more dmg with a zerker warrior... Wrong.

    You add more support to keep that zerg alive, so it can constantly throw pressure at your enemy and keep on pushing without giving your enemy time to breathe.

    well there's the efficient way to play this game and theirs the fun way. :3 you can always have a damage gear on one template and heal support on another; so you're not limited on the circumstance.

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    why you guys even talking about healing power warrios lol? do marauders/ zerk with durability. maybe some knights/ cavaliers.

    Because healing my group 15k with each shout and giving 42k barrier with horn is a nice added bonus to all the boonrip, condi remove and cc.

    I cant stress enough that you dont need a dmg warrior in zergfights, when there are classes out there, hitting for 10k on 1200 range lol

    no, adding up the numbers might make it seem more powerful but that's not how it really works. its misleading. the shouts heal for 3k per person and 4k barrier on a 20s cd. warrio is not meant to be a healer, its a complete waste of a slot.

    Agreed, if warrior had a way to pulse heals more frequently it'd work but it isn't worth investing into healing power for an extra 1k heal on shouts. Better to focus on immob, CC, boonrip, and damage

    i think red simply enjoys that method of play.
    if we are to minmax then gs hammer is the way to go for a team war. or the sword axe, that spin is gorgeous, i can actually see ppl doing gs sword axe or the more cumbersome sword axe hammer.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    why you guys even talking about healing power warrios lol? do marauders/ zerk with durability. maybe some knights/ cavaliers.

    Because healing my group 15k with each shout and giving 42k barrier with horn is a nice added bonus to all the boonrip, condi remove and cc.

    I cant stress enough that you dont need a dmg warrior in zergfights, when there are classes out there, hitting for 10k on 1200 range lol

    no, adding up the numbers might make it seem more powerful but that's not how it really works. its misleading. the shouts heal for 3k per person and 4k barrier on a 20s cd. warrio is not meant to be a healer, its a complete waste of a slot.

    Agreed, if warrior had a way to pulse heals more frequently it'd work but it isn't worth investing into healing power for an extra 1k heal on shouts. Better to focus on immob, CC, boonrip, and damage

    I never said that warrior is a healer. Period.
    I said its a nice added bonus on top of the other things i do (ripping boons, cleaning a ton of condis and dishing out cc's to keep ppl in my teams bomb)

    And he does that VERY well.
    And again, why, why do you need a melee class as dmg dealer? Nobody told me so far, i can tell you that ppl die in my bubble, regardless of me playing a full zerker warri, or a shoutwar with defensive stats (i played both for years)
    They die, and that while im not even using a dmg skill, because the bubble is a channel, and as we all know you cant cast anything with casttime while channeling.

    So if my zerg is doing enough dmg to kill enemies without a zerker warrior doing anything, whats the only logical thing to do?

    Yes, add more dmg with a zerker warrior... Wrong.

    You add more support to keep that zerg alive, so it can constantly throw pressure at your enemy and keep on pushing without giving your enemy time to breathe.

    well, as long as you're effective that's not so bad. who knows it may become a meta like our original fb scourge post on page 1

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    If you give up monks, you may as well just go full damage since the healing left isn't great. If you keep monks, you might as well go power/heal since it'll have better damage. Permeating wrath alone isnt enough to make a difference if you don't have any burn duration, especially if you're running plaguedoctors with apothecary since your condi damage will be pretty low

    well at that point you might as well go full valk or cele and get 2 other supports. the point of burnbrand heals is to not have to do that. again its not about top dmg.

    mmm i suppose the issue her is going full damage or with hybrid. because of the templates - you can test both and see how it goes. > @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    They die, and that while im not even using a dmg skill, because the bubble is a channel, and as we all know you cant cast anything with casttime while channeling.

    positioning and invulns man. you can still stack toughness and do decent damage.

    not stepping on ae too. :3 i mean you don't have to look at the enemy just the fields.> @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    They die, and that while im not even using a dmg skill, because the bubble is a channel, and as we all know you cant cast anything with casttime while channeling.

    positioning and invulns man. you can still stack toughness and do decent damage.

    did...did you read my post ?
    am i talking against a wall?

    what does positioning even have to do with that ?
    i said my enemies die inside the bubble that im channeling.

    english is not my mothertongue, but its not that bad, is it ?

    i think you're fine if your build works for you.> @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKxEIiNssAmI7ihxOxzZa9dB-zVIYfUzXKNFCZGBdXAhnAqONCYTD-w

    Maybe too much armor, but best stat combo atm to get maxed healingpower and power for warri.

    That's close to the build we use internally, except defiant stance as heal and break enchantments over FGJ.

    Gear wise it's a mix of crusader weapons with zealot armor+trinkets.

    I second the notion of Balanced Stance being almost mandatory over Featherfoot Grace. Chances as warrior are very high that you won't be close to your guard (even more if you sword 2 in to be on time with WoD with the 1200 bomb or if you were off revealing during GvGs) for stab or support.

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    why you guys even talking about healing power warrios lol? do marauders/ zerk with durability. maybe some knights/ cavaliers.

    Because with the changes of the last patch and scourge bombs hitting 10 people, the condition pressure in organized groups was very high and shout warrior is, as mentioned, second to only heal tempests in condition removal since the warhorn and tactics rework. Might as well make use of the warhorn and shout cleanses stat wise.

    Now this is obviously more for static groups and gvg, less for publics and it might change with scourges nerf to 5 targets.

    to be fair crusader has ferocity w/c makes it great. :3

    some now use troopers on tempest to remove condi on allies> @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Because with the changes of the last patch and scourge bombs hitting 10 people, the condition pressure in organized groups was very high and shout warrior is, as mentioned, second to only heal tempests in condition removal since the warhorn and tactics rework. Might as well make use of the warhorn and shout cleanses stat wise.

    last I checked you don't need healing power for cleanses. the heals war can output is less then mediocre. might as well stack toughness and go with damage if survivability is a problem.

    there are some guilds that run condi sdia and it's really hard to fend them off unless your group is fair with using blast on light. but running the fb/rev/scrap/scourge/spell deals with this issues without any problems since it's the most effecient setup for now. but having other options is nice. since it's really hard to get players to be static on a class and it's hard if the static player is not present. what i'm glad about now is we're having a lot of scrappers.> @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Because with the changes of the last patch and scourge bombs hitting 10 people, the condition pressure in organized groups was very high and shout warrior is, as mentioned, second to only heal tempests in condition removal since the warhorn and tactics rework. Might as well make use of the warhorn and shout cleanses stat wise.

    last I checked you don't need healing power for cleanses. the heals war can output is less then mediocre. might as well stack toughness and go with damage if survivability is a problem.

    If you need toughness as warrior with defense as traitline, Shrug-it-Off, Balanced Stance and Defiant Stance, you first need to learn to play your class. Might as well take some heal power to benefit those shouts while cleansing.

    Without 5 second weapon swap and with sword+wh plus hammer for stuns, your damage will be subpar at best, no matter the stats.

    healing benefits blasts too.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    why you guys even talking about healing power warrios lol? do marauders/ zerk with durability. maybe some knights/ cavaliers.

    Because healing my group 15k with each shout and giving 42k barrier with horn is a nice added bonus to all the boonrip, condi remove and cc.

    I cant stress enough that you dont need a dmg warrior in zergfights, when there are classes out there, hitting for 10k on 1200 range lol

    no, adding up the numbers might make it seem more powerful but that's not how it really works. its misleading. the shouts heal for 3k per person and 4k barrier on a 20s cd. warrio is not meant to be a healer, its a complete waste of a slot.

    Agreed, if warrior had a way to pulse heals more frequently it'd work but it isn't worth investing into healing power for an extra 1k heal on shouts. Better to focus on immob, CC, boonrip, and damage

    I never said that warrior is a healer. Period.
    I said its a nice added bonus on top of the other things i do (ripping boons, cleaning a ton of condis and dishing out cc's to keep ppl in my teams bomb)

    And he does that VERY well.
    And again, why, why do you need a melee class as dmg dealer? Nobody told me so far, i can tell you that ppl die in my bubble, regardless of me playing a full zerker warri, or a shoutwar with defensive stats (i played both for years)
    They die, and that while im not even using a dmg skill, because the bubble is a channel, and as we all know you cant cast anything with casttime while channeling.

    So if my zerg is doing enough dmg to kill enemies without a zerker warrior doing anything, whats the only logical thing to do?

    Yes, add more dmg with a zerker warrior... Wrong.

    You add more support to keep that zerg alive, so it can constantly throw pressure at your enemy and keep on pushing without giving your enemy time to breathe.

    If you're running a meleeball comp, which uses a spellbreaker per party or every other party, then it makes sense to have them contribute more than just a bubble per fight. Spellbreaker has poor access to healing but has great access to damage, so to get the most out of spellbreakers you focus on the damage portion. You get the same amount of rips/CC regardless.

    The reason to gear for damage is the 85s when you aren't using bubble, so you can kill the people you CC inside of your teammate's bubbles. That extra 1k heal on each shout isn't going to save people from getting killed, the 10k healing per second your scrapper is putting out will. Those stats spent on healing power can be the difference between you generating a down and not generating a down though.

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    If you give up monks, you may as well just go full damage since the healing left isn't great. If you keep monks, you might as well go power/heal since it'll have better damage. Permeating wrath alone isnt enough to make a difference if you don't have any burn duration, especially if you're running plaguedoctors with apothecary since your condi damage will be pretty low

    well at that point you might as well go full valk or cele and get 2 other supports. the point of burnbrand heals is to not have to do that. again its not about top dmg.

    Scrapper + tempest or renegade, that's exactly the point. Firebrand is bad at healing compared to any of those three.

    It's the same reason groups don't run rangers in squad, there are classes that fill the damage roll better. Why should it be any different for healers?> @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Because with the changes of the last patch and scourge bombs hitting 10 people, the condition pressure in organized groups was very high and shout warrior is, as mentioned, second to only heal tempests in condition removal since the warhorn and tactics rework. Might as well make use of the warhorn and shout cleanses stat wise.

    last I checked you don't need healing power for cleanses. the heals war can output is less then mediocre. might as well stack toughness and go with damage if survivability is a problem.

    If you need toughness as warrior with defense as traitline, Shrug-it-Off, Balanced Stance and Defiant Stance, you first need to learn to play your class. Might as well take some heal power to benefit those shouts while cleansing.

    Without 5 second weapon swap and with sword+wh plus hammer for stuns, your damage will be subpar at best, no matter the stats.

    The wh trait competes with the immob trait and sw/wh+ham spb has really mediocre damage, you're right. which is why you should drop the wh for axe and take the immob on cripple trait. vigor and resistance are already covered in the comps listed above by fb/renegade/tempest/scrapper. All that traited wh really brings is the condi clear, which tempest and scrapper do better.

  • @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    snips

    hey sry I dismissed that build you posted cuz I went braindead for a sec and didn't add up the stat boosts from radiance. so you're saying the damage is pretty good eh? interesting, thanks for the share. for some reason it never entered my mind to add in radiance into a heal hybrid.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    snips

    hey sry I dismissed that build you posted cuz I went braindead for a sec and didn't add up the stat boosts from radiance. so you're saying the damage is pretty good eh? interesting, thanks for the share. for some reason it never entered my mind to add in radiance into a heal hybrid.

    there's a lot of hybrid you can do besides burn to stacking retal right now. but the key post i mentioned why plague doctors is because it had boon duration to sustain quickness. it's still a team player so that's the main goal, but to add your damage over it helps. potent of haste is a great mantra.

    in the old days, to min max something

    it's like 2k power or 1.2k condi or 800 healing - probably 1k to 1.2k now like 33% crit or 33% boon - provided you got the proper synergy group like revs on devastation with scourge on passives and same with sin/blockheal fb or empowering allies warriors. so, if you gear your build to a specific team, you can really bring out the most epic effect in a fight. although that's what i aim since i aim to make a static build it's probably here in this thread somewhere where you can have around 3k armor on your heavy class so you can play around with to get the other stats. the proper proportion helps along with the food. but this sort of thing is something a guild leader should do for the specific guild. for pugs, it's enough to focus on the idea that - you aim for a specific effect. like mine here is pugs can go quickness alacrity (and of course guilds should do this too and capitalize on how it can increase performance.)

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    snips

    hey sry I dismissed that build you posted cuz I went braindead for a sec and didn't add up the stat boosts from radiance. so you're saying the damage is pretty good eh? interesting, thanks for the share. for some reason it never entered my mind to add in radiance into a heal hybrid.

    Yeah, damage is really solid with radiance fb. both as power or condi, or a hybrid between them. Resetting f1 on kill is huge, especially combined with the effect on CC traits because it turns your CCs into almost guaranteed kills. CC>f1>repeat while you run people over.

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    snips

    hey sry I dismissed that build you posted cuz I went braindead for a sec and didn't add up the stat boosts from radiance. so you're saying the damage is pretty good eh? interesting, thanks for the share. for some reason it never entered my mind to add in radiance into a heal hybrid.

    there's a lot of hybrid you can do besides burn to stacking retal right now. but the key post i mentioned why plague doctors is because it had boon duration to sustain quickness. it's still a team player so that's the main goal, but to add your damage over it helps. potent of haste is a great mantra.

    Agreed. What's nice about FB is you only need 30% boon duration to reliably upkeep quickness if you take fb 2/2/x. I have two fb builds i've been testing for the last couple weeks, hang on i'll put them up. I'd like both of your thoughts =D

  • @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    Yeah, damage is really solid with radiance fb. both as power or condi, or a hybrid between them. Resetting f1 on kill is huge, especially combined with the effect on CC traits because it turns your CCs into almost guaranteed kills. CC>f1>repeat while you run people over.

    mmm its tasty, but its making me mad. I want mostly crusaders, but then I need vitals. there are vitals but these are in no healpow gear! waaagh! the crafting of theories shall commence. something shall be born, ugly or otherwise.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    Yeah, damage is really solid with radiance fb. both as power or condi, or a hybrid between them. Resetting f1 on kill is huge, especially combined with the effect on CC traits because it turns your CCs into almost guaranteed kills. CC>f1>repeat while you run people over.

    mmm its tasty, but its making me mad. I want mostly crusaders, but then I need vitals. there are vitals but these are in no healpow gear! waaagh! the crafting of theories shall commence. something shall be born, ugly or otherwise.

    glad there's gw2skills.net to help us. :)

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    snips

    hey sry I dismissed that build you posted cuz I went braindead for a sec and didn't add up the stat boosts from radiance. so you're saying the damage is pretty good eh? interesting, thanks for the share. for some reason it never entered my mind to add in radiance into a heal hybrid.

    Yeah, damage is really solid with radiance fb. both as power or condi, or a hybrid between them. Resetting f1 on kill is huge, especially combined with the effect on CC traits because it turns your CCs into almost guaranteed kills. CC>f1>repeat while you run people over.

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    snips

    hey sry I dismissed that build you posted cuz I went braindead for a sec and didn't add up the stat boosts from radiance. so you're saying the damage is pretty good eh? interesting, thanks for the share. for some reason it never entered my mind to add in radiance into a heal hybrid.

    there's a lot of hybrid you can do besides burn to stacking retal right now. but the key post i mentioned why plague doctors is because it had boon duration to sustain quickness. it's still a team player so that's the main goal, but to add your damage over it helps. potent of haste is a great mantra.

    Agreed. What's nice about FB is you only need 30% boon duration to reliably upkeep quickness if you take fb 2/2/x. I have two fb builds i've been testing for the last couple weeks, hang on i'll put them up. I'd like both of your thoughts =D

    ya, quickness on heal (6) is strong.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • @Sovereign.1093 said:
    glad there's gw2skills.net to help us. :)

    it is life

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2019

    IMO Stalwart Speed is solid since it's basically 10 person quickness with SYG. Legendary Lore is pretty overrated; regen and extra burning time is irrelevant. More protection on Tome 3 sounds good on paper, but it' already gives plenty of protection already and you should be maxing your prot uptime when working with revs. And you can only stack it 5 times. Unless you're like spamming 1 or something...

    Also no heal power on warrior, plox. The thing about it is your SPB is mostly busy using their skills to maintain their bubble, not to heal other teammates, plus other classes do it way better. The condi cleanse is superb though but that doesn't need stats and you're better off using it to put the hurt on your enemy, not toot your horn.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Power/condi/boons hybrid: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWwAEd7lRwQYYsHmJOyK+PNA-zVZYCB5dG1oA2wBWINVAZmCdHBqdQCj9wbh+NN-w

    3.9k power, 83% crit, 178% crit damage, burns ticking for ~350 with 3k armor and 19k hp. wrathful spirit causes all of your aegis to grant retal that deals 327/tick. Even without PW, burning is still the highest damage effect in almost every fight which is why it uses grieving instead of marauder.

    Condi/quickness hybrid: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWwAYd7lRwQYYsHmJWyWePdA-zVJYkRN/hkjCoORQmSBxeQCi9wbh+PN-w

    640 damage burn ticks, 4s duration on f1 burns, 43% quickness duration, tanky as kitten. This build can get inside the enemy squad and stay there for as long as your healer survives, the entire time dishing out CC from axe 3 and f1 spam. The 4s duration on f1 burns isn't really useful for generating downs, but it is useful for killing anyone that gets separated from their healers. If you hit a group and someone dodges the wrong way, that person burns to death on the side instead of getting the chance to regroup. It also trashes downed players since they have no way to cleanse. This build is very punishing against groups that don't stay tight, either due to inexperience or because your group has heavy CC to string them out

    Something interesting to note is that amplified wrath in radiance modifies your f1 to have a 2.4s base duration, it doesn't just add 20% burning duration like other sources do. That means with just the radiance traitline, you get 2.4 x 1.23= 3s f1 burns without having to invest into burning duration.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2019

    Why not quickfire? You give your entire party Ashes of the Just, and the burns are based off of your own condi damage. Even if they are all minstrels, you'd do 5x the damage. I'm going to try that soon....

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    why you guys even talking about healing power warrios lol? do marauders/ zerk with durability. maybe some knights/ cavaliers.

    Because healing my group 15k with each shout and giving 42k barrier with horn is a nice added bonus to all the boonrip, condi remove and cc.

    I cant stress enough that you dont need a dmg warrior in zergfights, when there are classes out there, hitting for 10k on 1200 range lol

    Grab 20-40 scourges and push...

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    Why not quickfire? You give your entire party Ashes of the Just, and the burns are based off of your own condi damage. Even if they are all minstrels, you'd do 5x the damage. I'm going to try that soon....

    You need loremaster for builds with permeating wrath, for builds without it it's between stoic demeanor and quickfire. Quickfire adds a little damage but SD shuts down anyone you land a CC on and works better for generating downs imo

  • God.2708God.2708 Member ✭✭✭

    Warriors can't heal? Drunk kitten Mofos. Lemme introduce you to my little friend, ANGERY HEALER

    Dodge around, heal big-time via being angery, and then when the enemy least expects it be MORE ANGERY and kill them dead.

  • I really don't think stacking condi duration is a good idea. that power one looks sweet tho but imo the quickness mantra isn't needed since you got pretty much perma quick with the traits.

  • @Sovereign.1093 said:
    we never have problems :) it could be worth testing on your part to see. since this is based on our raid experience and not theory. if yours is better, please share; it'll improve the pool of information.

    Well test seems it looks good I can stack up to 30s on protection I can pre-stack them or spawn them in direction we moving. Ventri are used similar but not very beginner friendly. I had mixed in some diviner gear to get to 100% alacrity uptime.(2 rings) Main difficulty is to handle is the energy and the table . The thing with the table is it works only in straight lines and you need to move it trough the zerg to heal or you need to press 8 which cost more energy. Ventri skills can all burn through your energy especially the 0 for the big condi clean

    Heals are staff 2 and 4 and the table on Kalla you have 6 and 0 but those are spirits which are not reliable.

    What you have is:
    for 10 alacrity
    for 10 assasinces presence (so all other revs can go malicious reprisal )
    for 5 protection
    for X heal with the table when you move it through them.

    you also give regeneration when you dodge an enemy attack as well as retaliation for 5
    you can also give might(in fight) but I think with the other tasks this can cost too much.

    When you dodge an enemy attack or cc an enemy you also create healing orbs never saw them but it say so in the traits.

    In the end it start to make fun to play around with this build you might want to change from s/s to hammer but well its a heal built whatever you like as alternative weapon for cleaving.

    Can someone post a video which show the new meta in action?

    And Metabattle can you please update your builds this is so misleading with the support FB....

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    we never have problems :) it could be worth testing on your part to see. since this is based on our raid experience and not theory. if yours is better, please share; it'll improve the pool of information.

    Well test seems it looks good I can stack up to 30s on protection I can pre-stack them or spawn them in direction we moving. Ventri are used similar but not very beginner friendly. I had mixed in some diviner gear to get to 100% alacrity uptime.(2 rings) Main difficulty is to handle is the energy and the table . The thing with the table is it works only in straight lines and you need to move it trough the zerg to heal or you need to press 8 which cost more energy. Ventri skills can all burn through your energy especially the 0 for the big condi clean

    Heals are staff 2 and 4 and the table on Kalla you have 6 and 0 but those are spirits which are not reliable.

    What you have is:
    for 10 alacrity
    for 10 assasinces presence (so all other revs can go malicious reprisal )
    for 5 protection
    for X heal with the table when you move it through them.

    you also give regeneration when you dodge an enemy attack as well as retaliation for 5
    you can also give might(in fight) but I think with the other tasks this can cost too much.

    When you dodge an enemy attack or cc an enemy you also create healing orbs never saw them but it say so in the traits.

    In the end it start to make fun to play around with this build you might want to change from s/s to hammer but well its a heal built whatever you like as alternative weapon for cleaving.

    Can someone post a video which show the new meta in action?

    And Metabattle can you please update your builds this is so misleading with the support FB....

    i haven't recorded in a while since i was losing interest in uploading videos because my guys dont show up regularly, but i'll record again.

    a simple quick brand alacrity rev heal scrap cc destoyer war and boon corrupt scourge.

    i will play each class.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Lord of the Fire.6870Lord of the Fire.6870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2019

    Ups forgot to post the build http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAYxzltQJsNqipRUsMaiNShMDagnv177H-zVRYjRNXOcQGlRmpQ1VgvHiA0bxvhN-w
    Edit: There was a trait-line wrong

  • God.2708God.2708 Member ✭✭✭

    Heal Herald is infinitely superior to Heal Renegade except in alacrity output (but is much more effective at stab output). Both of them are meh compared to tempest.

    Condi Quickbrand is nice in theory, but to make the burning remotely useful (read: doesn't just fluff arcdps with random kitten) you lose a lot of what makes firebrand a strong support. It works as a trade off in 1 or 2 parties, an entire zerg with them is either getting carried by numbers or enemy incompetence.

    Power quickbrand can meme but the damage output is embarrassing compared to any other power class, and most of them offer a pretty useful and effective form of support too.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2019

    All of the people saying Warrior healing is useless have never even actually used it in a group.

    Yes, its paltry compared to Druid or even a maxed Guardian or Elementalist, but they put out 550 HP/s (without healing% modifiers, since I'm assuming Trooper runes and cleansing food). which increases to almost 700 HP/s if conditions are cleaned on the targets.

    The output of the strongest personal heals in the game, which allow nearly full reset, is only max [email protected] (Warrior shout, Guardian signet) which is 333 HP/s. So having a healing Warrior in you group is like having access to your heal skill every ~10sec.

    Most heal skills are much weaker, though, that comparison is worst case scenario. All of this on low or zero cast times, and with many secondary effects, and one of them even being a stun breaker, and then warhorn barrier on top of that. And then that same Warrior is blocking, dazing and stunning the heck out of the enemy simultaneously, and can rezz you in one click when downed.

    It is not optimal, but saying its useless is just.. fantasy.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay (formerly Jade Quarry) | Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Terakura/Spellbreaker | ♀♥♀

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2019

    @God.2708 said:
    Heal Herald is infinitely superior to Heal Renegade except in alacrity output (but is much more effective at stab output). Both of them are meh compared to tempest.

    Condi Quickbrand is nice in theory, but to make the burning remotely useful (read: doesn't just fluff arcdps with random kitten) you lose a lot of what makes firebrand a strong support. It works as a trade off in 1 or 2 parties, an entire zerg with them is either getting carried by numbers or enemy incompetence.

    Power quickbrand can meme but the damage output is embarrassing compared to any other power class, and most of them offer a pretty useful and effective form of support too.

    how are they meh compared to tempest?
    also what do condi quickbrands lose? I think they lose maybe 200 healing power, around 500 toughness, and some vitality and boon duration. they are pretty comparable in stats except burnbrands obviously do a ton more damage.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @God.2708 said:
    Heal Herald is infinitely superior to Heal Renegade except in alacrity output (but is much more effective at stab output). Both of them are meh compared to tempest.

    Condi Quickbrand is nice in theory, but to make the burning remotely useful (read: doesn't just fluff arcdps with random kitten) you lose a lot of what makes firebrand a strong support. It works as a trade off in 1 or 2 parties, an entire zerg with them is either getting carried by numbers or enemy incompetence.

    Power quickbrand can meme but the damage output is embarrassing compared to any other power class, and most of them offer a pretty useful and effective form of support too.

    how are they meh compared to tempest?
    also what do condi quickbrands lose? I think they lose maybe 200 healing power, around 500 toughness, and some vitality and boon duration. they are pretty comparable in stats except burnbrands obviously do a ton more .

    The herald passive healing facet alone heals arround 1.2k regen/sec for 10 players.

    Basically it’s a perma regen for 10 players and don’t need boon duration stats.

  • God.2708God.2708 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @God.2708 said:
    Heal Herald is infinitely superior to Heal Renegade except in alacrity output (but is much more effective at stab output). Both of them are meh compared to tempest.

    Condi Quickbrand is nice in theory, but to make the burning remotely useful (read: doesn't just fluff arcdps with random kitten) you lose a lot of what makes firebrand a strong support. It works as a trade off in 1 or 2 parties, an entire zerg with them is either getting carried by numbers or enemy incompetence.

    Power quickbrand can meme but the damage output is embarrassing compared to any other power class, and most of them offer a pretty useful and effective form of support too.

    how are they meh compared to tempest?
    also what do condi quickbrands lose? I think they lose maybe 200 healing power, around 500 toughness, and some vitality and boon duration. they are pretty comparable in stats except burnbrands obviously do a ton more damage.

    Because tempest can take offensive CCs (best source of AoE immobilize in the game by a long shot) and also heals in a more effective manner compared to renegade (giant sweeping 600 radius heals and 1.2k staff casts vs trying to maneuver a tablet around) on top of cleansing conditions better than scrapper does while doing both those things. A Heal herald puts out so many green numbers it actually makes me sick, but wvw doesn't need a class that just does that. Herald is almost on the verge of offering enough stability output which could put it in viability range, but renegade loses the facet of nature source of that for alacrity (that herald can provide an okay amount of anyway)

    Depends on the condition quickbrand build. The most potent thing a healbrand offers though is MI, which condi quickbrand can't come even close to replicating especially when it sacrifices most of its %heal modifiers either from rune swaps or dropping honor for radiance, etc.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2019

    @God.2708 said:
    Because tempest can take offensive CCs (best source of AoE immobilize in the game by a long shot) and also heals in a more effective manner compared to renegade (giant sweeping 600 radius heals and 1.2k staff casts vs trying to maneuver a tablet around) on top of cleansing conditions better than scrapper does while doing both those things. A Heal herald puts out so many green numbers it actually makes me sick, but wvw doesn't need a class that just does that. Herald is almost on the verge of offering enough stability output which could put it in viability range, but renegade loses the facet of nature source of that for alacrity (that herald can provide an okay amount of anyway)

    Depends on the condition quickbrand build. The most potent thing a healbrand offers though is MI, which condi quickbrand can't come even close to replicating especially when it sacrifices most of its %heal modifiers either from rune swaps or dropping honor for radiance, etc.

    actually druid has the best aoe immob in the game. no argument here about tempest healing effectiveness (altho I wonder how many of those staff casts are reflected), but the tablet can and does save people outright thru sheer strength. nothing else can do this, at least not like the tablet can. highly doubt any tempest build can cleanse more then an altruism scrapper.

    mmm, no. you can keep the + heal mods and honor. I disagreed with risenhowl on this very thing. people seem to think the only way to make a build is to go one extreme or the other. while theres no arguing this has proven to be effective with team comps, as far as I know no one has tried to run a comp with mostly hybrids. anyway not the point. take a look at this and tell me what you think.

    burnbrand hybrid
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWwAs6ZmgXQPAA-zVhYRBzFNgXEBvhVC+OL+tZB-w
    burnbrand direbalth
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWQAYugeAA-z1IY8ogPEcmlJ90A-w
    healbrand meta
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWQAYmgXAPAA-zVJYjRBfJ47s43mF-w

  • God.2708God.2708 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @God.2708 said:
    Because tempest can take offensive CCs (best source of AoE immobilize in the game by a long shot) and also heals in a more effective manner compared to renegade (giant sweeping 600 radius heals and 1.2k staff casts vs trying to maneuver a tablet around) on top of cleansing conditions better than scrapper does while doing both those things. A Heal herald puts out so many green numbers it actually makes me sick, but wvw doesn't need a class that just does that. Herald is almost on the verge of offering enough stability output which could put it in viability range, but renegade loses the facet of nature source of that for alacrity (that herald can provide an okay amount of anyway)

    Depends on the condition quickbrand build. The most potent thing a healbrand offers though is MI, which condi quickbrand can't come even close to replicating especially when it sacrifices most of its %heal modifiers either from rune swaps or dropping honor for radiance, etc.

    actually druid has the best aoe immob in the game. no argument here about tempest healing effectiveness (altho I wonder how many of those staff casts are reflected), but the tablet can and does save people outright thru sheer strength. nothing else can do this, at least not like the tablet can. highly doubt any tempest build can cleanse more then an altruism scrapper.

    mmm, no. you can keep the + heal mods and honor. I disagreed with risenhowl on this very thing. people seem to think the only way to make a build is to go one extreme or the other. while theres no arguing this has proven to be effective with team comps, as far as I know no one has tried to run a comp with mostly hybrids. anyway not the point. take a look at this and tell me what you think.

    burnbrand hybrid
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWwAs6ZmgXQPAA-zVhYRBzFNgXEBvhVC+OL+tZB-w
    burnbrand direbalth
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWQAYugeAA-z1IY8ogPEcmlJ90A-w
    healbrand meta
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWQAYmgXAPAA-zVJYjRBfJ47s43mF-w

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Aftershock!"
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Surge
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Overload_Earth

    What exactly does druid have? Awkward staff 4?
    Altruism scrapper is a meme that throws away the scrappers ability to provide stealth, and tempest outcleanses any regular scrapper by a good 25-50% (and does it while not mashing a key repeatedly that does absolutely nothing else)

    Your hybrid brand opts for permeating wrath over two of the BEST WvW GMS IN THE GAME so it can deal some minor burn damage when half the time it can't even proc permeating wrath because you have one to zero skills that hit targets when a tome is out.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2019

    @God.2708 said:
    What exactly does druid have? Awkward staff 4?
    Altruism scrapper is a meme that throws away the scrappers ability to provide stealth, and tempest outcleanses any regular scrapper by a good 25-50% (and does it while not mashing a key repeatedly that does absolutely nothing else)

    Your hybrid brand opts for permeating wrath over two of the BEST WvW GMS IN THE GAME so it can deal some minor burn damage when half the time it can't even proc permeating wrath because you have one to zero skills that hit targets when a tome is out.

    well if you want to figure druid out for yourself you can do that. I don't want to list all of the skills.
    as for scrapper, suppose the stealth can come from somewhere else, and no you don't have to mash mortar repeatedly to beat a tempest in cleanses. what sort of build are you talking about? tempest water fire? I don't see a tempest beating a scrapper in cleanses without fire. even then its a stretch.

    uhh… k. i'm not sure what your argument is here. the resolve gm sucks. the stab on courage is redundant with all the stab fb has. minor burn damage? ok lol. can't proc pw? what? that build isn't complete just cuz I didn't want to finish it, I figured you would fill in the blanks. its not like i'm going to camp a tome for any lengthy amount of time. that would be dumb.

    i'm not sure where you're coming from man, but it doesn't seem based on reality.

  • God.2708God.2708 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @God.2708 said:
    What exactly does druid have? Awkward staff 4?
    Altruism scrapper is a meme that throws away the scrappers ability to provide stealth, and tempest outcleanses any regular scrapper by a good 25-50% (and does it while not mashing a key repeatedly that does absolutely nothing else)

    Your hybrid brand opts for permeating wrath over two of the BEST WvW GMS IN THE GAME so it can deal some minor burn damage when half the time it can't even proc permeating wrath because you have one to zero skills that hit targets when a tome is out.

    well if you want to figure druid out for yourself you can do that. I don't want to list all of the skills.
    as for scrapper, suppose the stealth can come from somewhere else, and no you don't have to mash mortar repeatedly to beat a tempest in cleanses. what sort of build are you talking about? tempest water fire? I don't see a tempest beating a scrapper in cleanses without fire. even then its a stretch.

    uhh… k. i'm not sure what your argument is here. the resolve gm sucks. the stab on courage is redundant with all the stab fb has. minor burn damage? ok lol. can't proc pw? what? that build isn't complete just cuz I didn't want to finish it, I figured you would fill in the blanks.

    i'm not sure where you're coming from man, but it doesn't seem based on reality.

    I play tempest quite consistently, a tempest out cleanses a scrapper so easily it's not funny. Arcane Water Tempest, Trooper runes.

    I'm aware of what druid can do, it is nothing remotely close to the skills I linked above. (How are you going to compare a single target 5s immobilize and a multi target 1s immobilize to multiple ten man 2s+ immobilizes)

    I did fill in the blanks. Take out your virtue tome. What are you hitting enemies with? Virtue tome has zero skills that hit enemies. None of your absolutely insanely good support utilities hit enemy targets. Your permeating wrath can't proc. You can't hit enemies. Same thing with Courage tome unless you're spamming skill 2 (lol). If you're ditching those tomes fast so you can USE permeating wrath, you are tossing a good 50% of the firebrands support out the window so you can apply bad damage. Yes it is bad damage. No being at the top of ARCdps doesn't impress me, every condi build in the game does that, it has to do with how conditions work in a zerg setting.

    And the resolve GM is a ginormous heal and an endurance regen on your party. The the courage trait also makes f3 an AoE stunbreak (and firebrand doesn't have enough stab, even with that)

  • @God.2708 said:
    I play tempest quite consistently, a tempest out cleanses a scrapper so easily it's not funny. Arcane Water Tempest, Trooper runes.

    I'm aware of what druid can do, it is nothing remotely close to the skills I linked above. (How are you going to compare a single target 5s immobilize and a multi target 1s immobilize to multiple ten man 2s+ immobilizes)

    I did fill in the blanks. Take out your virtue tome. What are you hitting enemies with? Virtue tome has zero skills that hit enemies. None of your absolutely insanely good support utilities hit enemy targets. Your permeating wrath can't proc. You can't hit enemies. Same thing with Courage tome unless you're spamming skill 2 (lol). If you're ditching those tomes fast so you can USE permeating wrath, you are tossing a good 50% of the firebrands support out the window so you can apply bad damage. Yes it is bad damage. No being at the top of ARCdps doesn't impress me, every condi build in the game does that, it has to do with how conditions work in a zerg setting.

    And the resolve GM is a ginormous heal and an endurance regen on your party. The the courage trait also makes f3 an AoE stunbreak (and firebrand doesn't have enough stab, even with that)

    lol, you admitted tempest gets out cleansed by an altruism scrapper but dismiss it cuz no stealth. ignore what I said about stealth coming from somewhere else, then go right on ahead saying tempest is better. ok, cool. even if tempest pulls ahead of a regular scrap in cleanses its cuz of 10 target skills. scrapper is still a better cleanser cuz it has more skills that cleanse 5 condis to 5 people. also, a thing called superspeed. whatever tho tempest cleanses more then a regular scrapper, i'm not arguing that.

    ok so theres sword of justice. no, no one said i'm ditching those tomes so fast. neither am I camping them for half a kitten minute, cuz like I said, that would be dumb. every condi build in the game... so lol. no dood. only burn guard does this sort of damage (multiple 4k tics are bad yeah ok) with I would guess chokebow coming in second. don't know about chokebow at all since I've never played it or seen it played.

    ginormous heal. what is it like 300 hps? the endurance regen is also nothing to write home about. the courage stun break is sweet and its loss is felt. yes you can never have enough stab... I can never have enough hot cheetos either.

    was hoping this was going to be a good convo. clear to me we both think the other is a dummy. too bad.

  • God.2708God.2708 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @God.2708 said:
    I play tempest quite consistently, a tempest out cleanses a scrapper so easily it's not funny. Arcane Water Tempest, Trooper runes.

    I'm aware of what druid can do, it is nothing remotely close to the skills I linked above. (How are you going to compare a single target 5s immobilize and a multi target 1s immobilize to multiple ten man 2s+ immobilizes)

    I did fill in the blanks. Take out your virtue tome. What are you hitting enemies with? Virtue tome has zero skills that hit enemies. None of your absolutely insanely good support utilities hit enemy targets. Your permeating wrath can't proc. You can't hit enemies. Same thing with Courage tome unless you're spamming skill 2 (lol). If you're ditching those tomes fast so you can USE permeating wrath, you are tossing a good 50% of the firebrands support out the window so you can apply bad damage. Yes it is bad damage. No being at the top of ARCdps doesn't impress me, every condi build in the game does that, it has to do with how conditions work in a zerg setting.

    And the resolve GM is a ginormous heal and an endurance regen on your party. The the courage trait also makes f3 an AoE stunbreak (and firebrand doesn't have enough stab, even with that)

    lol, you admitted tempest gets out cleansed by an altruism scrapper but dismiss it cuz no stealth. ignore what I said about stealth coming from somewhere else, then go right on ahead saying tempest is better. ok, cool. even if tempest pulls ahead of a regular scrap in cleanses its cuz of 10 target skills. scrapper is still a better cleanser cuz it has more skills that cleanse 5 condis to 5 people. also, a thing called superspeed. whatever tho tempest cleanses more then a regular scrapper, i'm not arguing that.

    ok so theres sword of justice. no, no one said i'm ditching those tomes so fast. neither am I camping them for half a kitten minute, cuz like I said, that would be dumb. every condi build in the game... so lol. no dood. only burn guard does this sort of damage (multiple 4k tics are bad yeah ok) with I would guess chokebow coming in second. don't know about chokebow at all since I've never played it or seen it played.

    ginormous heal. what is it like 300 hps? the endurance regen is also nothing to write home about. the courage stun break is sweet and its loss is felt. yes you can never have enough stab... I can never have enough hot cheetos either.

    was hoping this was going to be a good convo. clear to me we both think the other is a dummy. too bad.

    Wasn't aware I'd have to clarify so much with my tempest comment. Tempest outcleanses scrapper in basically all forms except for altruism scrappers that sit there and mash their elite instead of do other useful things. Tempest has superspeed as well (also stunbreaks with it) Scrapper has one skill that cleanses multiple condis. The nice thing is with 10 man cleanses is that two parties of tempests replicate that via cleansing each others parties. Really not even sure why this is being discussed. I don't think tempests are better than scrappers, just different. The original comment was that tempests fulfill what you want heal heralds doing better (unless heralds stab generation is buffed a bit more and they become an alternative to FB)

    What did you drop for SoJ? The best Rez skill in the game? The only on demand condi cleanse FB has to save itself from immobilizes, Mantra of Lore? SYG? And yes, in general condi zerg builds will sit merrily at the top of the DPS meter. Condi scourges compete with burn brands without breaking a sweat. Chokebow can do okay. I've achieved numbers like that on a burnzerker as a bit of a meme. Condi revenants reach those numbers assuming the fights actually go melee. Condis sit there and combat regen (and things like Battle Presence) so the enemies health drops 1k then goes up by 1k. It fluffs the damage meter and makes you look like you've done a ton, but all you've really done is made the enemies heal numbers look good. The thing that wins fights in GW2 is concentrated spikes. Which a condi guard can do quite well in a variety of forms, but not while supporting.

    And yes ginormous heal. 1.3k every 3s. 433 a second. It's a second regen. To put it another way, it effectively counters permeating wrath on that dire burn brand you linked assuming full stacks of might (500 damage a second, per stack), unless you let the burn stack to huge numbers, which is very easy to avoid. Endurance regen is huge. There's a reason endurance regen food is the go to for the majority of roaming builds, and why sigil of energy is on basically every weapon set in the game in a WvW zerg.

  • @Hannelore.8153 said:
    All of the people saying Warrior healing is useless have never even actually used it in a group.

    Yes, its paltry compared to Druid or even a maxed Guardian or Elementalist, but they put out 550 HP/s (without healing% modifiers, since I'm assuming Trooper runes and cleansing food). which increases to almost 700 HP/s if conditions are cleaned on the targets.

    The output of the strongest personal heals in the game, which allow nearly full reset, is only max [email protected] (Warrior shout, Guardian signet) which is 333 HP/s. So having a healing Warrior in you group is like having access to your heal skill every ~10sec.

    Most heal skills are much weaker, though, that comparison is worst case scenario. All of this on low or zero cast times, and with many secondary effects, and one of them even being a stun breaker, and then warhorn barrier on top of that. And then that same Warrior is blocking, dazing and stunning the heck out of the enemy simultaneously, and can rezz you in one click when downed.

    It is not optimal, but saying its useless is just.. fantasy.

    It not useless but can it fit in ? I mean you have several other options for sec heal and limited space for them. Every option has it pro and cons. Biggest weak point is when you want a good duration of quickness from the FB the FB need to generate might with the mantra which overlaps with the warrior.

    On the other side you have engi which is mandatory atm to have at least around 4 in your squad for cloaking and reveal you can go DPS with them instead + extra group

    e.g if you are taking 5 heal tempest + 5 heal warriors you don't need any glint in any rev you have it all. But what you doesn't have is extra sustain in form of protection also you lose one dps spot all 10 to one hybrid.

    You also can run 5 fbs as sec heal who do all offensive boons and 5 renegade heals. With this you have more sustain and one more dps slot all 10.

    You can also run 4 scrappers as heal and fill the rest with what you want...

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2019

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    All of the people saying Warrior healing is useless have never even actually used it in a group.

    Yes, its paltry compared to Druid or even a maxed Guardian or Elementalist, but they put out 550 HP/s (without healing% modifiers, since I'm assuming Trooper runes and cleansing food). which increases to almost 700 HP/s if conditions are cleaned on the targets.

    The output of the strongest personal heals in the game, which allow nearly full reset, is only max [email protected] (Warrior shout, Guardian signet) which is 333 HP/s. So having a healing Warrior in you group is like having access to your heal skill every ~10sec.

    Most heal skills are much weaker, though, that comparison is worst case scenario. All of this on low or zero cast times, and with many secondary effects, and one of them even being a stun breaker, and then warhorn barrier on top of that. And then that same Warrior is blocking, dazing and stunning the heck out of the enemy simultaneously, and can rezz you in one click when downed.

    It is not optimal, but saying its useless is just.. fantasy.

    It not useless but can it fit in ? I mean you have several other options for sec heal and limited space for them. Every option has it pro and cons. Biggest weak point is when you want a good duration of quickness from the FB the FB need to generate might with the mantra which overlaps with the warrior.

    On the other side you have engi which is mandatory atm to have at least around 4 in your squad for cloaking and reveal you can go DPS with them instead + extra group

    e.g if you are taking 5 heal tempest + 5 heal warriors you don't need any glint in any rev you have it all. But what you doesn't have is extra sustain in form of protection also you lose one dps spot all 10 to one hybrid.

    You also can run 5 fbs as sec heal who do all offensive boons and 5 renegade heals. With this you have more sustain and one more dps slot all 10.

    You can also run 4 scrappers as heal and fill the rest with what you want...

    You still need at least one WH Warrior in your squad anyways because there's currently no replacement for Charge's raw damage bonus. Its not something that just having more boons can compete with, since its a role normally occupied by personal bonuses.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay (formerly Jade Quarry) | Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Terakura/Spellbreaker | ♀♥♀

  • @Hannelore.8153 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    All of the people saying Warrior healing is useless have never even actually used it in a group.

    Yes, its paltry compared to Druid or even a maxed Guardian or Elementalist, but they put out 550 HP/s (without healing% modifiers, since I'm assuming Trooper runes and cleansing food). which increases to almost 700 HP/s if conditions are cleaned on the targets.

    The output of the strongest personal heals in the game, which allow nearly full reset, is only max [email protected] (Warrior shout, Guardian signet) which is 333 HP/s. So having a healing Warrior in you group is like having access to your heal skill every ~10sec.

    Most heal skills are much weaker, though, that comparison is worst case scenario. All of this on low or zero cast times, and with many secondary effects, and one of them even being a stun breaker, and then warhorn barrier on top of that. And then that same Warrior is blocking, dazing and stunning the heck out of the enemy simultaneously, and can rezz you in one click when downed.

    It is not optimal, but saying its useless is just.. fantasy.

    It not useless but can it fit in ? I mean you have several other options for sec heal and limited space for them. Every option has it pro and cons. Biggest weak point is when you want a good duration of quickness from the FB the FB need to generate might with the mantra which overlaps with the warrior.

    On the other side you have engi which is mandatory atm to have at least around 4 in your squad for cloaking and reveal you can go DPS with them instead + extra group

    e.g if you are taking 5 heal tempest + 5 heal warriors you don't need any glint in any rev you have it all. But what you doesn't have is extra sustain in form of protection also you lose one dps spot all 10 to one hybrid.

    You also can run 5 fbs as sec heal who do all offensive boons and 5 renegade heals. With this you have more sustain and one more dps slot all 10.

    You can also run 4 scrappers as heal and fill the rest with what you want...

    You still need at least one WH Warrior in your squad anyways because there's currently no replacement for Charge's raw damage bonus. Its not something that just having more boons can compete with, since its a role normally occupied by personal bonuses.

    I don't know on how many do it goes ? and also you have a lot of classes which have an class specific dmg boost e.g druids spotter when you try to force them in you lose more dps then you gain.

  • @God.2708 said:
    snips

    like I said not based on reality. I think tempest is better then scrapper in some ways and vice versa. every support has good things going for them. would be nice if anet decides to buff them a lil bit (instead of nerfing fb which will have no effect on the meta) so we can see some interesting and fun to play comps.

  • God.2708God.2708 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @God.2708 said:
    snips

    like I said not based on reality. I think tempest is better then scrapper in some ways and vice versa. every support has good things going for them. would be nice if anet decides to buff them a lil bit (instead of nerfing fb which will have no effect on the meta) so we can see some interesting and fun to play comps.

    Only one not based in reality is you. But I'm glad we agree that tempest and scrapper have their own unique niches.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2019

    you can try team plague doctors. pretty fun.

    plague doctors instead of minstrels.

    can have it for fb scourge tempest renegade

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    meta before new patch tuesday.

    priority 1 per 5

    quick brand alacrity gade cc spell boon corrup scourge and heal cleanse scrapper.

    1 per 10
    shouts tempest
    utility mesmer
    commander focus ranger (targets necro/ele/revs/commanders)
    scourge

    party would look like

    fb rev scrap scourge spell
    fb rev ele mes ranger

    enjoy our few but lot of girth busting team

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.