Increase rewards/incentive for WvW commanders, add more special bonuses + lower entry cost

Having a commander in WvW is instrumental to the enjoyment and participation of players. I feel like ArenaNet should further increase the bonus rewards + lower the entry cost.

A few examples:

• Lower the gold price for a commander tag in WvW by swapping some of the gold cost with (more)Badges of Honor/Skirmish Claim Tickets. So like 150g + ???? Badges of Honor/Skirmish Claim Tickets.
• Give WvW commander tag a unique pin icon option. Maybe even unique colors.
• Increase rewards for commanding even further like even more participation - more gold p/hour.
• Add something like a statue to the best server commanders - those with squads that had most kills/objectives captured somewhere on the map similar to the statues in sPvP
• Unique titles and achievements only available to commanders.

Those are just a few ideas from the top of my head, I'm sure ArenaNet can come up with something, but basically the underlying message is: WvW needs more people willing to command and ArenaNet should even more actively work towards Incentivising ppl to do so.

I know that WvW has more problems that would make commanders not want to command, but increasing the incentive/rewards would be a step in the right direction.

The issue isn’t the lack of incentive but the lack of willingness of others to learn to command. It’s similar to the issue with LFG where people sit there staring at it waiting for a group to pop up for what they want to do rather than create one of their own.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The issue isn’t the lack of incentive but the lack of willingness of others to learn to command. It’s similar to the issue with LFG where people sit there staring at it waiting for a group to pop up for what they want to do rather than create one of their own.

Yes and no.Most zerglings dont really pay attention to what commanding actually IS. It takes time to learn to read how your enemy moves, when to engage, when to call for damage, when to regroup, how to move. And that's just the fighting aspect. There's supply lines and management, siege placement, tactivators etc. If you dont pay attention to these things when you're being led by an experienced commander, its a very difficult path to commanding yourself.

I think the homeworld fragmentation made it so you can't even keep proper comms running due to the 2 month relink period. Most serious commanders / people who want to learn depend on voice comms to lead. This is why we need Alliances so badly, we need a solidified base once again for many purposes, including this one. The current game design makes it so nobody really cares enough to put in extra effort.

In reply to OP:

• Commander tag: We have enough colors, catmander is a 'WvW thing'. No gold price drop, but DEFINITELY put in a Badge of Honor sink. 1K badges or something. We need badge sinks so badly.• Commander rewards: You get extra pips by commanding. Extra gold? I dont know, might have 20 tags on a map.• Statues: I like this idea although inevitably the tag with the biggest zerg will 'win' this award regardless of skill.• Titles/Achievements: Again we're gonna have 20 tags on the map cause completionists.

As for my own contributions:

• We desperately need the Alliance system. Once Alliances get going we could have leaderboards and other non monetary incentives that would make people want to 'belong' and work for their group. It will create rivalries and stir up this current dredge that will inevitably lead to more social capital and better gameplay.

• Make the Guild Arena have WvW balance (why its PVE still baffles me) so people can get trained there. Let us set up custom Golems and aoe fields (like the AR tester field in Fractals of the mists) so we can emulate combat situations and teach people and test builds/comps.

• Nerf WvW mounts. We have to be able to CC them. Giving them 3 dodges is more than enough. Maybe give a mount-to-mount dismount (yes I know) skill. If it lands both players are dismounted, if it doesnt, nobody is and there's a significant cooldown.

@Strages.2950 said:• We desperately need the Alliance system. Once Alliances get going we could have leaderboards and other non monetary incentives that would make people want to 'belong' and work for their group. It will create rivalries and stir up this current dredge that will inevitably lead to more social capital and better gameplay.

Or in other words, give people a reason to care about winning? The only time I ever heard anyone on my server talk about winning was when they all agreed to tank so we could get a break from having to play a certain server that is forever in T1.

@xhyc.2078 said:Having a commander in WvW is instrumental to the enjoyment and participation of players.Thousands of roamers out there disagree. Don't try to speak for everyone, it just isn't true.I spend the vast majority of my WvW time without a tag and I enjoy it just fine.

A few examples:

• Lower the gold price for a commander tag in WvW by swapping some of the gold cost with (more)Badges of Honor/Skirmish Claim Tickets. So like 150g + ???? Badges of Honor/Skirmish Claim Tickets.Arenanet already effectively lowered the price of a tag with the Catmander tag.

• Give WvW commander tag a unique pin icon option. Maybe even unique colors.This is not the kind of suggestion that will make many WvW commanders happy.

• Increase rewards for commanding even further like even more participation - more gold p/hour.This would be highly exploitable, you have to see that.

• Add something like a statue to the best server commanders - those with squads that had most kills/objectives captured somewhere on the map similar to the statues in sPvP

• Unique titles and achievements only available to commanders.Cool. Something for people to Win-trade for. Just what the game mode needs. Maybe we can convince Sindrenner to come play.

Maybe if all the gatekeepers and toxic try-hards could stow their venom and let new commanders make a few mistakes without jumping them in all caps in map chat?No you're right, it's Anet's fault people don't tag up more.

@mindcircus.1506 said:No you're right, it's Anet's fault people don't tag up more.

Well, no. If I had to pick a #1 reason why commanders don't want to tag up, it would be that the players who then join their squad, don't actually follow the commander. What is the point in trying to lead a group that won't follow the leader, rushes into chokes during a fake push (and die), heads to the top of the walls to try and pew pew (and die) instead of stacking below and staying out of sight for an ambush, or who run in different directions after dolyaks, sentries or roamers, when the commander has 2 unfinished pieces of siege waiting beside a wall, screaming for someone to run up and press 'f'.

Not even going to go as far as talking about meta builds, moving on tag, dropping your bombs / boons in unison; I've played with all sorts of commanders, many of whom have pretty relaxed requirements. But even they require the squad to actually follow the commander...

IF players just want to run around like rats fleeing a flood, why bother asking if anyone is tagged up?

players whine being beaten by zergs and groups, but all it takes is a little coordination in voice coms. :/

unless the group is very experienced, it normally results to 10 players farming 30 untrained pugs.

sure players can gear up as they like and use blah experiments but they will often always be beaten by a coordinated group.

the game is super easy. players just need to get good. how hard is it to

stack buff and push? not hard >.<

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:No you're right, it's Anet's fault people don't tag up more.

Absolutely agree.But none of these issues is made better by increasing rewards for one person as the OP suggests.These are all community issues.

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:No you're right, it's Anet's fault people don't tag up more.

it is easier to make a dedicated gvg guild than lead daily a random group against a good team. >.<

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:No you're right, it's Anet's fault people don't tag up more.

Agreed. So ultimately if players want more/better tags, it begins with the individual player. Learn what it means to follow a tag, do it, and encourage others to do it. That way commanders get supported, get better at driving, and those who are veterans will stay and keep leading. In the end we all want the same thing, to walk out of every fight the victor, and to change the colours of all the objectives to that of our server.

No additional incentives need to be given to commanders - they do it because they like the game mode. They just need to be supported.

i think its better to reward the team when following the commanders. we dont really need much. players share siege, food. and most of us are fully geared to the core.

just need to give pugs an incentive to step up.

probably buff of more loot if within 180 range of commander.hehe

@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:... ultimately if players want more/better tags, it begins with the individual player.

Whether a zergling, a squad member, a lieutenant, or the commander themself.

Good commanders don't need incentives to tag up. Part of what makes them good is that they like organized combat and have ideas on how to make it work.

None of the good or great commanders I've seen seem to have the attitude of "I'd tag up more often, if only I got more shinies for it." None of the retired commanders I know of would return to it for more shinies. Better tools? Sure. Better ways to incentivize their squad members? Now that might help. (Presuming there was any way to avoid such mechanics from being abused.)

@mindcircus.1506 said:

No you're right, it's Anet's fault people don't tag up more.

In my case it is. The community aspect of WvW is the reason I used to frequently tag up but world linking killed it for me and lead to me to focus only on my guild/friends. Now I run private tag and command for my guild only.

That being said, I don't believe simply giving out extra rewards to commanders will help. There needs to be non-tangible incentives.

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Strages.2950 said:• We desperately need the Alliance system. Once Alliances get going we could have leaderboards and other non monetary incentives that would make people want to 'belong' and work for their group. It will create rivalries and stir up this current dredge that will inevitably lead to more social capital and better gameplay.

In short yes. I just think Alliances rolling out are a big step in that direction. It'll once again give players a sense of belonging that was lost with the server linkings and massive bandwagoning. Guild identity is just not enough nowdays, especially when WvW is bleeding players.

@Adamarc.7463 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:

No you're right, it's Anet's fault people don't tag up more.

Agreed. We dont really need more shinies, we need people to start caring about getting better and winning again.

Just want to address a few things mentioned real quick.

-Roamers don't need tags to enjoy the game.

I don't see how this is relevant. You can still roam when there are more tags. Also, the vast majority of players do enjoy the game more when there is a commander on the map.

-Entry level already lowered with catmander tag

Catmander is only cheaper if you already have the commander's compendium

-Existing commanders don't need more "shinies"/incentive

I mean, true the hardcore commanders probably don't, but things like statues or similar ideas would give them something to work towards and the "bragging rights" around something like that can motivate a lot of competitive people. Nevertheless, the post is mostly targeted towards incentivising more people to tag and learn how to command. A lot of times there are enough players on the maps, but no commanders to organize things and most players will just leave if there is no commander. Better incentives/lower entry cost can make more people intrigued in tagging up and learning to command, imo.

@"xhyc.2078" said:-Existing commanders don't need more "shinies"/incentive

I mean, true the hardcore commanders probably don't, but things like statues or similar ideas would give them something to work towards and the "bragging rights" around something like that can motivate a lot of competitive people. Nevertheless, the post is mostly targeted towards incentivising more people to tag and learn how to command. A lot of times there are enough players on the maps, but no commanders to organize things and most players will just leave if there is no commander. Better incentives/lower entry cost can make more people intrigued in tagging up and learning to command, imo.

I agree with you that having commanders matters: many people are more likely to stay with a world, more likely to play and for longer, and in many cases, more likely to want to get better at being a squad-member. I think it's worth asking how can we get more commanders.

I just disagree with the assumption inherent in the opening post: that paying people to command is going to matter. You might want to chat with existing commanders first to see what motivates them and with good players who offer advice in /team or /map, but don't themselves tag up.

You're imagining that there's someone out there with the potential to be a great tactician and strategist, if only it were cheaper to sign up and more rewarding to push through the awkward learning phase (when they make mistakes and get yelled at, learn to control their own temper, learn to see more of the map, learn to use scouts and so on) and keep at it.

Do you know anyone who fits that description? (Or fill in your own description of who this program would benefit.)

If I were still running a guild, and if I did know such a person, I wouldn't wait for ANet to figure out how to motivate them. (Not that it's impossible to imagine; it just wouldn't possibly be soon enough to matter). Instead, I'd setup a collection from the guild to buy a tag for them and organize a group of regulars to follow them religiously for as long as they are willing to try to learn how to command in WvW.

@Adamarc.7463 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:

No you're right, it's Anet's fault people don't tag up more.

cyc, we don't deserve you, and everyone else, definitely doesn't.

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@xhyc.2078 said:Having a commander in WvW is instrumental to the enjoyment and participation of players.Thousands of roamers out there disagree. Don't try to speak for everyone, it just isn't true.I spend the vast majority of my WvW time without a tag and I enjoy it just fine.

A few examples:

• Lower the gold price for a commander tag in WvW by swapping some of the gold cost with (more)Badges of Honor/Skirmish Claim Tickets. So like 150g + ???? Badges of Honor/Skirmish Claim Tickets.Arenanet already effectively lowered the price of a tag with the Catmander tag.

• Give WvW commander tag a unique pin icon option. Maybe even unique colors.This is not the kind of suggestion that will make many WvW commanders happy.

• Increase rewards for commanding even further like even more participation - more gold p/hour.This would be highly exploitable, you have to see that.

• Add something like a statue to the best server commanders - those with squads that had most kills/objectives captured somewhere on the map similar to the statues in sPvP

• Unique titles and achievements only available to commanders.Cool. Something for people to Win-trade for. Just what the game mode needs. Maybe we can convince Sindrenner to come play.

I stopped reading everything after this post. Main issue new people don't lead - abuse. Main reason people don't follow those they don't know - get farmed (Most the time). Also Sinderener stopped playing WvW to become a pro sPvP player, that went well for him.

Wait, wait, wait. Wait.

So commanders arent in it for just the fights?!

the very fabric of reality just unraveled by this revelation

i command because i have a family of guildies who's fun is my main concern, whether to fight, ppt, or chat in voice com.

imo. more incentives for me does not matter. its the pugs that need incentive to give wvw love.

and i dont think most ppl got my ego or any commander's ego to fight despite being outnumbered, blobbed, or lagged.

a server without open coms will die. and the community will simply transfer to where there are commanders.

give players a reason to rely on each other.

Tags up are a good thing for a world for sure, even as someone who roams 99% of the time, in many cases if it's active time and my world doesn't have a tag, it's not much fun roaming as getting chased by 30+ people all over the map gets old, and with no tag to keep them busy, they just gank anything they see. As a roamer, I really, REALLY enjoy fights, but not just fighting for the sake of it, I am old school in that I like to assist the tag by stopping supply into other keeps/towers, or havoc capping towers.

If you want to see people tag more often, when you see someone tagged who is doing an ok job, use some of your badges to buy siege and mail it to them. Have some extra gold? Send it their way. If someone is an active tag moving around the map and capping things, the amount of siege the tag goes through can be crazy and it can get expensive quick. So why not share some of the rewards you are getting because of that tag? Very few people actually do this, if more people did, the good tags would have more reason to tag up, and see less pressure when they do tag up, the support is also encouraging for them, as tags are like anyone else and can get discouraged, they also often get an over whelming amount of negative feedback in map chat and PM's, because everyone else knows how to command better than the tag.....but wont tag up them selves.

@Dawdler.8521 said:Wait, wait, wait. Wait.

So commanders arent in it for just the fights?!

the very fabric of reality just unraveled by this revelation

Simple truth is, anyone wanting a pure form of PvP wouldn't be playing this game; anyone left who says this is just a meme.

That isn't of course to say that players won't have a preference. Flipping empty objectives over and over again is super boring (especially if you're playing a support class), but then fighting in an open field constantly, while exhilarating, stops being fun if you're not largely victorious, and as much as some want to pretend otherwise, WvW has WXP ranks and achievements, and players generally want to maximize their rewards for their game time in most circumstances.

So the truth, as always, lies somewhere in the middle: both karma train only and fight-only proponents are at the fringes and should be given the deference deserved as minority voices on the extremes, while most players, I think, would want a mixture of fighting in the open, fighting vs. siege, and flipping objectives.

@Strages.2950 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

You're conscious Alliance system is smoke, true? That won't fix at all the issue, but only changing the name of it, right?

@Cambeleg.7632 said:

@Strages.2950 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

Perhaps. But if this smoke gets people to feel like they belong again and start giving a shit, then its an improvement. I'm not putting all my chips into the Alliance system, I know the mode needs a lot of work in other regards. But seeing as it was something that was promised, I know it'll bring people back into the WvW scene. Will it fix everything? Ofc not, but it just might be a reason for people to stick around and gives them a reason to fight again.

Actually, people need to learn how to play without a commander tag. More incentives should go to the solo roamer who’s scouting, flipping camps, and placing sieges to keep the other team occupied.