PvP is unwelcoming to new players; rambling and suggestions — Guild Wars 2 Forums

PvP is unwelcoming to new players; rambling and suggestions

LolLookAtMyAP.8394LolLookAtMyAP.8394 Member ✭✭✭
edited July 10, 2019 in PVP

There is no tutorial for new players on how to play Conquest. You think newbies would look up guides and resources for rotations (if they even help)? Think again. New players are put off by this game mode due to feeling lost, bored, and completely overwhelmed by enemies.

And not to mention the battle-able NPCs in HotM. With two elite specs for each class and none of the NPCs featuring said elite specs you can only imagine how impossible it seems for newbies to fare against elite spec players due to lack of training.
Idea: create an instance in HotM (similar to the Raid Golem instance) where you can customize NPCs, their skills, their amulets, and save the result in the future. This allows for practice against these type of builds. If it's too technical then make premade builds for each elite spec that have AI which corresponds to each build appropriately.

When elite specs arrived in GW2 it was interesting, but having to memorize how to play against all these builds became a hassle. This was further compounded when PoF dropped. Problem is PoF is notorious for its problematic elite specs such as Scourge's point pressure and high boon corruption, Mirage's evasive nature, Firebrand's ultimate support kit, Holosmith's strong and unnecessarily FAST holo-attacks, Deadeye's toxic playstyle, Soulbeast's unblockable and high damage mods.

HoT classes were very annoying to adjust to as well, but I think PoF overall made Conquest stink. I wish we could go back to just core and HoT builds, since almost everyone runs PoF builds now.

This game has too many instant skills for new players, and is far too reactive. So... a strange idea but bear with me. Under 1400 rating in Ranked, and under a certain MMR in Unranked, every player receives a "slow" effect that slows down attack animations and cast times by 25%. This helps newer/struggling players identify attacks.

Thoughts? Ideas to improve Conquest? Please feel free to contribute. Thank you for reading.

Tl;dr Conquest needs intervention, add tutorials, customizable sparring NPCs, 25% skill animation/cast increase for lower MMR ratings

Comments

  • CS GO dosent have bullets that travel slower in bronze rating, its probably the dumbest suggestion I have ever heard.

  • @Skyronight.6370 said:
    CS GO dosent have bullets that travel slower in bronze rating, its probably the dumbest suggestion I have ever heard.

    Okay but this isn't CS: GO

  • Syclantus.4621Syclantus.4621 Member ✭✭
    edited July 10, 2019

    There are so many streamers. Jawgeous has a complete set of videos including all the basics. You should search up stuff before posting tbh... Nothing will be handed on a silver plate. Also no bot will prepare you for the real thing. You can ask people for 1v1, play unranked. Literally everyone learns this way

  • LolLookAtMyAP.8394LolLookAtMyAP.8394 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 10, 2019

    @Syclantus.4621 said:
    There are so many streamers. Jawgeous has a complete set of videos including all the basics. You should search up stuff before posting tbh... Nothing will be handed on a silver plate. Also no bot will prepare you for the real thing. You can ask people for 1v1, play unranked. Literally everyone learns this way

    But most of these streamers feature long uninteractive videos that players will forget in time. I've watched countless videos and played Conquest for years and still struggle rotating because of how poor my upbringing was when I first started the gamemode.

    "Handed on a silver plate" you mean "devs being responsible for helping new players"?

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Skotlex.7580 said:
    however, it is in all PvPers interest that new players stick to the mode. Otherwise that's how you lose the playerbase until left with a barren mode.

    Besides the obvious need for balance, Anet really could look at how else to improve the experience of new players to motivate them to stay around. Being lost and unable to practice without getting steamrolled seem like fine candidates for such thing.

    maybe by letting them play with friends?

    thats how I was introduced to the game mode and how I introduced many others.

    Win or lose, its always fun to play with friends.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭

    no competitive game I started playing feels welcoming. You gonna be destroyed in the first 20 matches or so till matchmaking place you in the right matches.

  • @sephiroth.4217 said:
    maybe by letting them play with friends?

    thats how I was introduced to the game mode and how I introduced many others.

    Win or lose, its always fun to play with friends.

    In unranked, most def. In ranked, it's a problem as it is right now.

    Some new players naturally try ranked as soon as their able, which; isn't very hard given the low requirement. They go in playing their core class that worked against other low levels and unranked meme builds and get absolutely steamrolled.

    If they decide to DuoQ ranked at any point, whether it be with their friend bringing them into the game, or someone around their rank; they rig the matchmaker against themselves and their entire team which could include you. It also makes them an easy and prime target for people in the top 100 DuoQing together.

    There's always 5-man which I know you're for, but Arenanet has already made the agenda pretty clear on that:
    DuoQ obviously works and is worth a second try. The population is too low for TeamQ, and there's always AT's. Not saying I agree, but that's the stance they took.

    For anyone just playing the game to play competitively, have fun, and learn, the reality is that the "just wanting to play with friends" excuse has substantially hindered their ability to do so. Uncapped merged queues are horrible for a low population like Gw2 Ranked has, and just perpetuate the problem even further by forcing players new and old to quit.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    maybe by letting them play with friends?

    thats how I was introduced to the game mode and how I introduced many others.

    Win or lose, its always fun to play with friends.

    In unranked, most def. In ranked, it's a problem as it is right now.

    Some new players naturally try ranked as soon as their able, which; isn't very hard given the low requirement. They go in playing their core class that worked against other low levels and unranked meme builds and get absolutely steamrolled.

    If they decide to DuoQ ranked at any point, whether it be with their friend bringing them into the game, or someone around their rank; they rig the matchmaker against themselves and their entire team which could include you. It also makes them an easy and prime target for people in the top 100 DuoQing together.

    There's always 5-man which I know you're for, but Arenanet has already made the agenda pretty clear on that:
    DuoQ obviously works and is worth a second try. The population is too low for TeamQ, and there's always AT's. Not saying I agree, but that's the stance they took.

    For anyone just playing the game to play competitively, have fun, and learn, the reality is that the "just wanting to play with friends" excuse has substantially hindered their ability to do so. Uncapped merged queues are horrible for a low population like Gw2 Ranked has, and just perpetuate the problem even further by forcing players new and old to quit.

    As long as people say no to team queue, they have no right to complain about the current state of the game because it's literally want they want, to be the best in a dead game mode.

    Only in the backwater gaming industry of Guild Wars 2 did we forget that games are supposed to be about having fun, usually with friends.

    You'd have to be some sort of psycho to be able to continuosly log in to a game that sucks all the fun out of gaming.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Multicolorhipster.9751Multicolorhipster.9751 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    As long as people say no to team queue, they have no right to complain about the current state of the game because it's literally want they want, to be the best in a dead game mode.

    Only in the backwater gaming industry of Guild Wars 2 did we forget that games are supposed to be about having fun, usually with friends.

    You'd have to be some sort of psycho to be able to continuosly log in to a game that sucks all the fun out of gaming.

    Being able to play with a single friend supposedly satisfies that need.

    You might just be right about that last thing. If I don't log in for my daily match I hyperventilate and start sweating bullets.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    So... a strange idea but bear with me. Under 1400 rating in Ranked, and under a certain MMR in Unranked, every player receives a "slow" effect that slows down attack animations and cast times by 25%. This helps newer/struggling players identify attacks.

    This kind of crutch for new players would not help them aquaint themselves with the flow of actual combat. It would lead to a situation where they would find it "easier" when they started only then to get slapped hard in the face when the buff was lifted. This would lead to a feeling that the time they had invested learning the game was wasted because even after lifting themselves to 1400, they still got wrecked.
    And this because in a period that was formative, they didnt learn the correct flow of combat.

    What sPvP needs is a whole bunch of nerfs and an end to the power creep.
    That's it.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    not just PvP, it's actually the entire game...

    the tutorial for PvE is a complete joke, especially the 'tutorial' that supposed to 'teach' you how to dodge

    WvW, nothing at all, you are thrown into the middle of the pacific ocean and expect how to learn to swim by yourself

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  • DoomNexus.5324DoomNexus.5324 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    There is no tutorial for new players on how to play Conquest. You think newbies would look up guides and resources for rotations (if they even help)? Think again. New players are put off by this game mode due to feeling lost, bored, and completely overwhelmed by enemies.

    I agree, there should be some effort from Anet to better introduce newer players to the game mode, because - even if some players say it's a braindead button smashing clown fiesta - which it admittedly sometimes is - it requires a huge amount of map and game knowledge and mechanical skill.
    So even if it's only linking to some selected introduction videos from Anet partners or maybe direct a couple of vids in collaboration with anet partners which get highlighted then, this would already be a huge step forward. Would be a win/win/win situation imo.. Anet could outsource the main part, partners would get some featuring from Anet (which they unfortunately never do unless it's Guildnews with some new random PvE bs nobody's interested in) and the players would get a bit of guidance.
    But again, GW2 is just a very game knowledge demanding game. You can't simply say "ok so in this situation it's best to rotate from here to here" and that's it, since it depends on what class and maybe even which build you are playing, on your team comp and the enemy team comp and you have dozens of factors you have to include in your decision making. Like.. Are there enemy players on respawn, are there outnumbered fights on the map I can join, does it make sense to rotate there or are they already almost dead without making a real difference or would I only feed them additional 5 points without accomplishing something, how mobile is the enemy comp and can they outrotate us/can we outrotate them? It goes on and on and on.
    So this would require a several hours long guide series to cover everything properly. Because if not covered properly it only results in stuff like "Anet said, always/never do beast on Niflhel" or "Anet said never play more than 2 nodes" or something.. It gives players legitimacy for complaining if you differ from the standard guide-way of doing things, even if it's more appropriate or in a certain situation.

    And not to mention the battle-able NPCs in HotM. With two elite specs for each class and none of the NPCs featuring said elite specs you can only imagine how impossible it seems for newbies to fare against elite spec players due to lack of training.
    Idea: create an instance in HotM (similar to the Raid Golem instance) where you can customize NPCs, their skills, their amulets, and save the result in the future. This allows for practice against these type of builds. If it's too technical then make premade builds for each elite spec that have AI which corresponds to each build appropriately.

    I honestly had to think about what NPCs you are talking about. Are people really using them to train against a certain class? I mean, just play unranked or grab a couple friends or pugs and go to one of the many empty custom servers to practice. I occasionally do 1v1's in custom arenas and it really helps. Others do that pretty regularly even.
    Also I think it's near impossible to really create artificial realistic player behaviour and even if, it wouldn't really be worth it since you always have access to fighting actual players so I don't really see the necessity. And again, if Anet did introduce such bots with a somewhat reasonable legitimacy, they would set a defined way to play a certain class, which is detrimental in my opinion. Elitism with meta builds is already annoying enough.

    This game has too many instant skills for new players, and is far too reactive. So... a strange idea but bear with me. Under 1400 rating in Ranked, and under a certain MMR in Unranked, every player receives a "slow" effect that slows down attack animations and cast times by 25%. This helps newer/struggling players identify attacks.

    I'm also not a fan of this, just for the fact that it would be a huge change when you come from PvE or switch game modes and have to adjust for slower effects every time you enter PvP. Also if you get above 1400 rating it will be a huge shock to most players to suddenly play on increased (or more like normal) speed and THIS would be the real hassle I guess. Especially if you ping-pong between under and over 1400 you literally don't have any consistency whatsoever.

    As harsh as it might sound but it's really just l2p.
    I've been crawling around in gold 2 and 3 for ages but I've been putting a lot of effort into improving not only my playstyle but also making better decisions and acquiring more game and class knowledge, especially from the other classes. Like I've been playing almost every other spec at some point for several matches to get a feel for them, their kit and their playstyle so I can counter them better or know which fights I can try to take in the first place or from which I should just disengage straight away. Now I am at a ~plat 2 level.
    So.. I would definitely support improving an introduction to the game mode (since it's virtually non-existence atm) but other than that, it's really just practice and putting effort in by yourself tbh.

  • @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:

    @Syclantus.4621 said:
    There are so many streamers. Jawgeous has a complete set of videos including all the basics. You should search up stuff before posting tbh... Nothing will be handed on a silver plate. Also no bot will prepare you for the real thing. You can ask people for 1v1, play unranked. Literally everyone learns this way

    But most of these streamers feature long uninteractive videos that players will forget in time. I've watched countless videos and played Conquest for years and still struggle rotating because of how poor my upbringing was when I first started the gamemode.

    "Handed on a silver plate" you mean "devs being responsible for helping new players"?

    Look it can't be helped if you personally find the videos non interactive ( I differ on this but nvm ). In regards to your rotations, maybe record your matches and review them later and see what you did wrong ( no offense but perhaps PvP is not cut out for you)? As to new players, I believe there's an introductory post for them in the forums. Beyond that if they want to improve/ be serious, there's enough material for them to access and learn. I don't believe it's among the Devs responsibility to provide crutches everywhere in a mode that to be frank has been dumbed down from what it was. Like there are live streams of top players on twitch from both NA and EU

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Reasons why new players don't stay in pvp:
    Mesmers, sic em soulbeasts. Also few other power crept classes, but dieing in 1 second is nothing that will encourage new players to play that abominated mode

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Slowing down attack animations/ cast time wouldnt do anything because as soon as that buff/debuff went away you would still be struggling since things were now killing you faster and youd have to react faster when before you had a crutch. Its really just a learning curve. To get better at fighting other professions learning to play them and understand the basic of them is the best thing to do since you can learning animations, timings, strengths and weaknesses. Of course there are always cheese builds but those tend to be beaten by good awareness.

    I've seen so many people killed from a Chrono one shot in unranked because they are so focused on what they are currently doing that they dont see the Mesmer throwing his GS 2 which is your tell tale animation to dodge roll/ stun break ect.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    PvP is unwelcoming to new players;

    -Good-

    What Do You Expect When A Game Encourages Toxicity In Their Balance?

    What Do You Expect When A Game Rewards Toxicity Instead Of Punishing It?

    What Do You Expect Really When New Players See This?

    How Should Anyone React To A Toxic Game?

  • @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Skotlex.7580 said:
    however, it is in all PvPers interest that new players stick to the mode. Otherwise that's how you lose the playerbase until left with a barren mode.

    Besides the obvious need for balance, Anet really could look at how else to improve the experience of new players to motivate them to stay around. Being lost and unable to practice without getting steamrolled seem like fine candidates for such thing.

    maybe by letting them play with friends?

    thats how I was introduced to the game mode and how I introduced many others.

    Win or lose, its always fun to play with friends.

    I would like to add that, by being able to group up with people that can resist being total kittenholes for at least a few hours a day, you automatically push out toxic players that only have a presence in group matches because the Matchmaker allows them to. Some of those people are so vile that the only reason people interact with them at all is because they're forced to.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Gaberen.4325Gaberen.4325 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    This game has too many instant skills for new players, and is far too reactive. So... a strange idea but bear with me. Under 1400 rating in Ranked, and under a certain MMR in Unranked, every player receives a "slow" effect that slows down attack animations and cast times by 25%. This helps newer/struggling players identify attacks.

    Just lul

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    @Gaberen.4325 said:

    This game has too many instant skills for new players, and is far too reactive. So... a strange idea but bear with me. Under 1400 rating in Ranked, and under a certain MMR in Unranked, every player receives a "slow" effect that slows down attack animations and cast times by 25%. This helps newer/struggling players identify attacks.

    Just lul

    -1
    not funny. Gaberen makes a great point

  • Loki.1763Loki.1763 Member ✭✭

    An adequate pvp tutorial has been requested repeatedly. Back on the old forums, I was involved with several players to put together a newbie-friendly guide. We couldn't even get Anet to pin the finished product as sticky post. As others have mentioned, there are plenty of resources "out there" if you bother to look. If a new player can't make the effort to find relevant info, then chances are they're not gunna stick around in pvp anyway.

    Prohibit F2P accounts from entering Ranked and raised the PVP Rank requirement to enter Ranked would go a long way towards improving matches.

  • bladezero.9470bladezero.9470 Member ✭✭✭

    @Loki.1763 said:
    An adequate pvp tutorial has been requested repeatedly. Back on the old forums, I was involved with several players to put together a newbie-friendly guide. We couldn't even get Anet to pin the finished product as sticky post. As others have mentioned, there are plenty of resources "out there" if you bother to look. If a new player can't make the effort to find relevant info, then chances are they're not gunna stick around in pvp anyway.

    Prohibit F2P accounts from entering Ranked and raised the PVP Rank requirement to enter Ranked would go a long way towards improving matches.

    This sounds good, but what is going to bring the good players back to the game?

    Only balance and new modes can save us.

    Oh, and 5 man team queue.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭

    Just add 2v2 3v3 arenas in a queue and ditch the circle quest it is too complicated right of the start and the game is way way way over sped and over charged for anyone new. Simple objective of kill the other guy win learn your class get matched vs other new people, now you get around gold 2 right of the start and with the low pop you get matched vs people that have played this for years and you just get rolled.

  • Loki.1763Loki.1763 Member ✭✭

    @bladezero.9470 said:

    This sounds good, but what is going to bring the good players back to the game?

    Only balance and new modes can save us.

    Oh, and 5 man team queue.

    I don't disagree. TBH I don't have any specific ideas on how to get players back. I think it's along the lines of "if you build it, they will come". Folks lurk on the forums, connect on social media. If pvp was improving and not constantly devolving, word would get around. Whereas currently, few people have anything good to say about it, myself included.

    Frankly I feel like pvp is on life support, waiting for the plug to be pulled. Yet hope springs eternal :)

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