[Elite Suggestion] Unbalancer

Adept Minor TraitYou now can use sword in your main hand and allow you to use Unbalance abilities.Gain new F2 ability. Each weapon gain new AA while F2 is active. This Elite uses core shroud.

Adept Major Trait LineMajor Trait 1Weakness you inflict will now last 15% longer. Deal 5% more damage to weakened enemies.Major Trait 2Increase all healing you get via life siphon by 15%.Major Trait 3Gain 5 sec of retaliation when you exit shroud.

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Master Minor TraitGain 4 sec of retaliation when you enter combat. Refresh this ability when you exit shroud.

Master Major Trait LineMajor Trait 4Inflict 3 stacks of poison for 8 sec on enemies whenever you inflict weakness on them. Cooldown per unique enemy: 15 sec.Major Trait 5Your life siphoning abilities and affects deal 10% more damage.Major Trait 6Gain 3 sec of retaliation when you evade an attack. (Cooldown: 3 sec)

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Grandmaster Minor TraitInflict 4 sec of weakness on an enemy when you damage it via retaliation. Cooldown: 10 sec.

Grandmaster Major Trait LineMajor Trait 7Damaging an enemy with your sword have a 33% chance to inflict 1 stack of poison for 5 sec. Poisons you inflict will last 20% longer.Major Trait 8Your F2 now will siphon health from nearby enemies every 2 sec. (Siphon damage: 300; Siphon healing: 170; Radius: 300)Major Trait 9Ignore chill/cripple/slow/blind while you have retaliation. Using one of your Unbalance abilities will reduce remaining cooldown of F2 by 2 sec.

Sword 1First hit of two hit chain. Slash your target and inflict poison on weakened enemies.

• Casting time: 1/2 sec
• Range: 170
• Damage: 375 (scale with power)
• Life force: 1%
• Poison: 1 stack for 4 sec

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Sword 1Second hit of two hit chain. Slash your target and inflict weakness on poisoned enemies.

• Casting time: 1/2 sec
• Range: 170
• Damage: 450 (scale with power)
• Life force: 2%
• Weakness: 1 sec

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Sword 1While F2 is active. Impale your target siphoning some health and inflict poison.

• Casting time: 1/2 sec
• Range: 170
• Siphon damage: 280 (scale with power)
• Siphon healing: 175 (scale with healing power)
• Poison: 1 stack for 5 sec

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Sword 2Shadow step to your target and hit all nearby enemies dealing damage to them, inflict weakness and poison on all damaged enemies.

• Casting time: 1/2 sec
• Range: 600
• Radius: 300
• Damage: 750 (scale with power)
• Weakness: 3 sec
• Poison: 2 stacks for 5 sec

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Sword 3Create a shield of horrors which will absorb next control effect inflicted upon you. When this ability absorbs a control effect, then inflict fear on your attacker. Gain retaliation if this ability expires without absorbing a control effect.

• Casting time: instant
• Duration: 5 sec
• Cooldown: 15 sec
• Fear: 1 sec
• Retaliation: 4 sec

F2Enter into necrotic frenzy causing you to deal more damage, take more healing and take more damage. While on this frenzy your weapon AA changes in new one. This frenzy ends automatically when you enter shroud or get downed.

• Casting time: 1/4 sec
• Duration: 10 sec
• Cooldown: 30 sec
• Bonus damage: 10%
• Bonus healing: 15%
• Increase damage taken: 20%
• Cost: 5000 life force

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Staff 1While F2 is active. Cause shadows to strike your target and all enemies nearby your target.

• Casting time: 3/4 sec
• Range: 1200
• Radius: 300
• Damage: 750 (scale with power)
• Unblockable

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Axe 1While F2 is active. Mutilate your target while channeling. Each hit of this ability inflict vulnerability. Deal 50% more damage against enemies bellow 25% of their maximum health.

• Channel time: 2 sec
• Range: 900
• Damage (4x): 900 (scale with power)
• Vulnerability: 1 stack for 10 sec

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Dagger 1While F2 is active. Slash your target with reckless fury dealing damage to it and inflict bleeding on yourself. Deal more damage per stack of bleeding on you.

• Casting time: 1/2 sec
• Range: 130
• Damage: 350 (scale with power)
• Self-bleeding: 1 stack for 6 sec
• Damage done per stack of bleed: 5%

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Scepter 1While F2 is active. Cause necrotic miasma to burst out of your target inflict poison on your target and 1 more random condition.

• Casting time: 3/4 sec
• Range: 900
• Damage: 150 (scale with power)
• Poison: 1 stack for 6 sec
• Bleeding: 1 stack for 10 sec
• Torment: 1 stack for 5 sec
• Confusion: 1 stack for 3 sec

Healing UnbalanceBecome invulnerable to all damage.

• Casting time: 1/2 sec
• Duration: 4 sec
• Cooldown: 40 sec

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Utility Unbalance 1Stunbreak yourself, consume some of your own health and gain regeneration.

• Casting time: instant
• Cooldown: 20 sec
• Health cost: 1500
• Regeneration: 10 sec

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Utility Unbalance 2Consume a boon on yourself and remove the same boon from all nearby enemies.

• Casting time: 1/2 sec
• Cooldown: 15 sec
• Radius: 450

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Utility Unbalance 3Immobilize yourself and gain retaliation.

• Casting time: 1/4 sec
• Cooldown: 15 sec
• Immobilize: 2 sec
• Retaliation: 5 sec

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Utility Unbalance 4Tether yourself to your target. Heal yourself for 15% of healing your target takes. This counts as siphon healing.

• Casting time: 3/4 sec
• Cooldown: 40 sec
• Range: 900
• Tether break range: 900
• Duration: 4 sec

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Elite UnbalanceReverse all boons and conditions on your target (can be cast on both yourself and enemies) turning boons into conditions and conditions into boons.

• Casting time: 1 sec
• Cooldown: 60 sec
• Range: 1200

Major trait 5 need to be looked at. What's the point of giving a 400 ferocity bonus on things that don't crit?

Overall, this is pure powercreep, there is no drawback to taking the e-spec, you just gain an F2 and all effects associated for free on top of core abilities, which is not in line with ANet's current philosophy for e-spec:

Elite specializations were introduced with the Heart of Thorns™ expansion and have become a regular sight throughout Tyria. These specializations have sometimes come with trade-offs, and sometimes they've been purely beneficial compared to a core specialization, often because they add something on top of everything the profession already does. We believe that elite specializations are a more meaningful choice when they have some trade-off or change some core part of a profession's mechanics.

@Dadnir.5038 said:Elite specializations were introduced with the Heart of Thorns™ expansion and have become a regular sight throughout Tyria. These specializations have SOMETIMES come with trade-offs, and SOMETIMES they've been PURELY BENEFICIAL compared to a core specialization.

(• •)( • •)>⌐■-■(⌐■_■)

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:Elite specializations were introduced with the Heart of Thorns™ expansion and have become a regular sight throughout Tyria. These specializations have

SOMETIMES

come with trade-offs, and

SOMETIMES

they've been

PURELY BENEFICIAL

compared to a core specialization.

No need for the "deal with it" and only quoting the top half of the quote, which is now pretty irrelevant due to them having a change in design ethos. It's literally in the following sentence what they are planning to do with them now and how they will a) change those which don't have a trade off to have one, i.e. DD and swipe, and b) make sure specs added in future already have one when released.

On top of what Dadnir said this spec has far to much retaliation and weakness. Throw in the healing and this would be one of the most annoying specs to actually fight.

There are only two things to like.

• Mainhand sword
• What should be an F1 ability that changes your #skill much like thief and their stealth attacks meaning the spec is still interesting regardless of what weapon you decide to use.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:No need for the "deal with it" and only quoting the top half of the quote, which is now pretty irrelevant due to them having a change in design ethos. It's literally in the following sentence what they are planning to do with them now and how they will a) change those which don't have a trade off to have one, i.e. DD and swipe, and b) make sure specs added in future already have one when released.

So, what is a trade-off for picking reaper over core?Also, what is a trade-off for picking holosmith over core engineer? And how about druid? Soulbeast? Mirage? Chronomancer? Dragonhunter? Scrapper?(• •)Oh, wait, nearly none of them are trade-offs. All of them are improvements.( • •)>⌐■-■(⌐■_■)

@Sigmoid.7082 said:On top of what Dadnir said this spec has far to much retaliation and weakness. Throw in the healing and this would be one of the most annoying specs to actually fight.

Core necro have chill - reaper have more chills.Core necro have torment and burn - scourge have more torment and burn.Warrior can apply more weakness. Guardian can have more retaliation.Core necro have weakness and retaliation - this elite have more weakness and retaliation.

It is as if(• •)this elite improve what necro already have( • •)>⌐■-■just like most other elites in the game(⌐■_■)

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@"Sigmoid.7082" said:No need for the "deal with it" and only quoting the top half of the quote, which is now pretty irrelevant due to them having a change in design ethos. It's literally in the following sentence what they are planning to do with them now and how they will a) change those which don't have a trade off to have one, i.e. DD and swipe, and b) make sure specs added in future already have one when released.

you lose death shroud

Also, what is a trade-off for picking holosmith over core engineer?you lose elite toolbelt skill

And how about druid?weaker pets

Dragonhunter?you lose the core virtues

Soulbeast? Mirage? Chronomancer? Scrapper?it's a work in progress (soulbeast, chrono and mirage where mentioned in the blogpost that they're on the choppingblock)

and don't come with "reaper shroud is better then death shroud" , that's a balance issue, not a design issue (same goes for the other examples)

(• •)( • •)>⌐■-■(⌐■_■)

@derd.6413 said:you lose death shroud

And get reaper shroud - the one with better damage, better fear, stability, better CC, better conditions, etc. How is that a trade-off when core shroud gets turned into a better version?

@derd.6413 said:you lose elite toolbelt skill

And get entire new 5 new abilities who work as direct improvement towards all weapon sets available. How is that a trade-off?

@derd.6413 said:Dragonhunter?you lose the core virtues

And get better one. How is that a trade-off if you get a better thing?

@derd.6413 said:and don't come with "reaper shroud is better then death shroud" , that's a balance issue, not a design issue (same goes for the other examples)

Reaper shroud was added in 2015 and it always been better than death shroud. Anet had 4 years to balance it, so it is as balanced as it can be, yet, it is still better.So, it is an design issue and it proves my point perfectly.(• •)( • •)>⌐■-■(⌐■_■)

To add to the what dred has said:More retaliation and weakness =/= too much retaliation and weakness. More is fine, too much is not. You say reaper had more chill compared to core but it had too much, look what happened to it since its release.; A bunch of its traits / skills lost chill duration because it was to much. Same happened with Scourge, its burning and boon corruption has been toned down since its been released.

@"derd.6413" said:and don't come with "reaper shroud is better then death shroud" , that's a balance issue, not a design issue (same goes for the other examples)

just because anet didn't adress powercreep in 4 years doesn't make it a design issue/not an issue, that's some really arbitrary logic.

but to simplify: trade-offs are a design issue, fair trade-offs are a balance issue

@Sigmoid.7082 said:To add to the what dred has said:More retaliation and weakness =/= too much retaliation and weakness. More is fine, too much is not.

Define how much retaliation is too much. For example, lets just ignore boon removal (and typical 2 sec length of fights) and just talk about uptime. In 60 seconds, how many seconds of retaliation is too much? Be specific.

@derd.6413 said:just because anet didn't adress powercreep in 4 years doesn't make it a design issue/not an issue, that's some really arbitrary logic.

According to what Anet was doing for past 4 years it is not an issue. It is an issue according to you. Because you aren't working for Anet, so i will take the side of Anet - reaper shroud is better and was designed to be better than death shroud.

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@"derd.6413" said:you lose death shroud

Being "better" don't mean that the trade off don't exist. In case of the reaper shroud, "better" is purely based on players point of view based on their playing experience. It's arguable to say that reaper shroud have "better" conditions because core death shroud have access to immobilize, chill, bleed and torment while, strictly speaking, reaper shroud only offer poison and chill. The same goes for the CCs, is a stun really better than immobilize? It might be in PvE faced agaisnt a break bar but it might be weaker in other situations... etc.

Core shroud cost less life force to keep up and is a mid range/long range tool while reaper shroud is a pure melee kit that have access to more combo finishers. That's all you can really say, every thing else is prejudice. The only point that could really be seen as powercreep between the 2 shrouds would be the increased access to finishers which most players don't give a **** about because they don't know how to use them properly and ANet minimized the impact of field and finishers to a minimum along the years.

@Dadnir.5038 said:It's arguable to say that reaper shroud have "better" conditions because core death shroud have access to immobilize, chill, bleed and torment while, strictly speaking, reaper shroud only offer poison and chill.

Nope. Reaper shroud have blind, chill and poison. Also, why do you put immobilize to both conditions and CC?Death shroud have bleed, chill and chill.So, 3 for 3. However:Death shroud - 2 stacks of bleed and a chill once every 15 sec; 2 stacks of torment once every 40 sec.Reaper shroud - blindness every 6 sec; chill every 25 sec; 12 stacks of poison every 30 sec; chill every 30 sec.Now add "Deathly Chill" and now every single chill adds bleed.So, reaper applies more conditions, applies them more often and i would argue that reaper's conditions are better.

@Dadnir.5038 said:The same goes for the CCs, is a stun really better than immobilize? It might be in PvE faced agaisnt a break bar but it might be weaker in other situations... etc.

1.5 sec stun VS 2 sec of immobilize. Are you trying to claim immobilize is better?Also, death shroud have single target fear. Reaper shroud have AOE fear.

Unbalancer is the espec of the sPvP devs.

@Amaranthe.3578 said:Unbalancer is the espec of the sPvP devs.This XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD(I just came to this thread to witness exact this one comment and I wasnt dissapoint.ed, dont mind me)@derd.6413Why mirage would need one more trade off when they took away normal evade and replaced it with immobile one?Also there is nothing to argue about, elite offer way better choice compared for what it took away than core spec curently (druid clearly got hit in the balls, revenant have no trade-off at all, drd players are crying)

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:It's arguable to say that reaper shroud have "better" conditions because core death shroud have access to immobilize, chill, bleed and torment while, strictly speaking, reaper shroud only offer poison and chill.

Because CC stand for "crowd control" and immobilize is a condition that benefit from expertise.

Death shroud have bleed, chill and chill.

Death shroud have bleed and chill on dark path and torment and immobilize on tainted shackle.

So, 3 for 3. However:Death shroud - 2 stacks of bleed and a chill once every 15 sec; 2 stacks of torment once every 40 sec.

Tainted shackle pulse torment every seconds.

Reaper shroud - blindness every 6 sec; chill every 25 sec; 12 stacks of poison every 30 sec; chill every 30 sec.Now add "Deathly Chill" and now every single chill adds bleed.

You introduce a trait in an argument which is only about the shroud. I could say that core shroud can be supported by 3 core traitlines instead of just 2.

So, reaper applies more conditions, applies them more often and i would argue that reaper's conditions are better.

And to entertain you, you could also list "reveal" as condition.

@"Dadnir.5038" said:The same goes for the CCs, is a stun really better than immobilize? It might be in PvE faced agaisnt a break bar but it might be weaker in other situations... etc.

Immobilize is affected by condition duration which make it indeed "better" in some situation, effectively rooting in place your targets for far longer than a 1.5 second stun does or will ever do. Immobilize isn't a widespread effect and tend to be drown into other conditions effect visually. When a player is rooted in place he will be more likely to think that he is stuned and thus waste a stunbreak to no avail when he is in fact immobilized and need to cleanse it's conditions. When a normal mob suffer from immobilize, it is often helpless for the whole duration of the condition. A long immobilize effect can be deadly tool.

Also, death shroud have single target fear. Reaper shroud have AOE fear.

A 1200 range instant single target fear. Again, this is an effect that can be a lot more potent than the reaper's fear based on the situation.

Like I said, whether or not RS skills are "better" than DS skills is arguable. You can say that DS have a skill kit that is more frustrating than the RS skill kit and I'll agree wholeheartingly, however I won't agree that it's strictly a "better" skill kit because both kits have a very different range of use.

@Dadnir.5038 said:You introduce a trait in an argument which is only about the shroud. I could say that core shroud can be supported by 3 core traitlines instead of just 2.

If you take reaper elite, you must take one of three traits. However, if you play core necro, you are not tie to any traitline, thus taking one of reaper traits is necessary.

@Dadnir.5038 said:And to entertain you, you could also list "reveal" as condition.

....... I am not entertained.

@Dadnir.5038 said:Immobilize is affected by condition duration which make it indeed "better" in some situation, effectively rooting in place your targets for far longer than a 1.5 second stun does or will ever do.

(• •)( • •)>⌐■-■Sigil of Savagery(⌐■_■)

@Dadnir.5038 said:A 1200 range instant single target fear. Again, this is an effect that can be a lot more potent than the reaper's fear based on the situation.

Reaper have damage reduction, stability and AOE fear in one single ability, which makes it way more potent and versatile in nearly every single situation.

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:You introduce a trait in an argument which is only about the shroud. I could say that core shroud can be supported by 3 core traitlines instead of just 2.

Which doesn't mean that your shroud gain inately this effect and thus is a matter of build. Thus bleed isn't a condition that come directly from the shroud. However you turn it, trait improve the shroud they aren't "inate" abilities you make "sacrifices" to gain their effects.

@"Dadnir.5038" said:And to entertain you, you could also list "reveal" as condition.

@"Dadnir.5038" said:Immobilize is affected by condition duration which make it indeed "better" in some situation, effectively rooting in place your targets for far longer than a 1.5 second stun does or will ever do.

30% push the stun effect to a duration slightly under 2 seconds. 100% condi duration push immobilize to 4 seconds... Far longer indeed. I think you can take off your black glasses.

@"Dadnir.5038" said:A

1200 range instant

single target fear. Again, this is an effect that can be a lot more potent than the reaper's fear based on the situation.

There are times where you need more a 1200 range CC than a melee CC. Let's be honest, apples don't taste like oranges yet both are fruits and neither the fact that it's easier to get juice out of an orange nor the thickness of their skin make oranges "better" fruits than apples.

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:Unbalancer is the espec of the sPvP devs.This XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD(I just came to this thread to witness exact this one comment and I wasnt dissapoint.ed, dont mind me)@derd.6413Why mirage would need one more trade off when they took away normal evade and replaced it with immobile one?Also there is nothing to argue about, elite offer way better choice compared for what it took away than core spec curently (druid clearly got hit in the balls, revenant have no trade-off at all, drd players are crying)

:) glad u liked

@"Dadnir.5038" said:Which doesn't mean that your shroud gain inately this effect and thus is a matter of build. Thus bleed isn't a condition that come directly from the shroud. However you turn it, trait improve the shroud they aren't "inate" abilities you make "sacrifices" to gain their effects.

Well, you have to take one of those, and even if you don't take that one, you still have to take something, because you need to take reaper elite.

@"Dadnir.5038" said:30% push the stun effect to a duration slightly under 2 seconds. 100% condi duration push immobilize to 4 seconds... Far longer indeed. I think you can take off your black glasses.

Lets remember what you have said:"1.5 second stun does or will ever do"I proved that you don't know what you are talking about, because you claimed that it can stun only for 1.5 sec. Which is way better for power builds. At least admit when you are wrong, mate.

@"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:Lets remember what you have said:"1.5 second stun does or will ever do"I proved that you don't know what you are talking about, because you claimed that it can stun only for 1.5 sec. Which is way better for power builds. At least admit when you are wrong, mate.

I'll answer you the same way you answer:"still don't reach the inate 2 seconds of immobilize despite the fact that you add a sigil effect"

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:Lets remember what you have said:"1.5 second stun does or will ever do"I proved that you don't know what you are talking about, because you claimed that it can stun only for 1.5 sec. Which is way better for power builds. At least admit when you are wrong, mate.

And i will answer you the same way you answer:"I disagree, because i want to disagree, but i have no reason to do so, so i claim immobilize to be stronger CC than stun"