can we please not let scourge hit 10 targets anymore — Guild Wars 2 Forums

can we please not let scourge hit 10 targets anymore

Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited July 13, 2019 in WvW

for those of you not aware, shade skills plus the necro hit 10 targets. i'm not sure if its the same for support traits/ skills, but i'm pretty sure it is.

edit
its shade + necro
edit
barrier is granted to 10 ppl

<1

Comments

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Shaogin.2679 said:
    Shade skills hit 5 targets if you take the trait Sand Savant. The other 5 targets are being hit from the attack that pulses off of your character when using a shade skill. The max targets you can hit from range therefore is still only 5.

    not disputed, slightly irrelevant.

    Not irrelevant since your original claim was shade skills hit 10 targets.

    It's 5 targets from shade and 5 targets from the necromancer who has to actually be in range.

    A possible solution could be to put all effects on the shade and remove the double effect from the necromancer making scourge more dependant on positioning his shade. Obviously shade skills would then have to be buffed, which would cause a new issue of more ranged pressure.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Shaogin.2679 said:
    Shade skills hit 5 targets if you take the trait Sand Savant. The other 5 targets are being hit from the attack that pulses off of your character when using a shade skill. The max targets you can hit from range therefore is still only 5.

    not disputed, slightly irrelevant.

    Not irrelevant since your original claim was shade skills hit 10 targets.

    It's 5 targets from shade and 5 targets from the necromancer who has to actually be in range.

    A possible solution could be to put all effects on the shade and remove the double effect from the necromancer making scourge more dependant on positioning his shade. Obviously shade skills would then have to be buffed, which would cause a new issue of more ranged pressure.

    But that would also increase the survivability for a Necro who no longer has to go into melee range for max damage. Don't think that's really a good direction, though as someone who just plays power scourge casually in metas and such, I wouldn't mind that change :wink:

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Shaogin.2679 said:
    Shade skills hit 5 targets if you take the trait Sand Savant. The other 5 targets are being hit from the attack that pulses off of your character when using a shade skill. The max targets you can hit from range therefore is still only 5.

    not disputed, slightly irrelevant.

    I'll take "Lying by omission" for 1200, Alex

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    This is why they are preferred over reapers and eles which can't hit 10 targets simultaneously.

    Yeah...that's the reason they are preferred....

    Not sure if serious.

    EDIT: Meme added 'cause for me today is Friday:

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    This is why they are preferred over reapers and eles which can't hit 10 targets simultaneously.

    Yeah...that's the reason they are preferred....

    Not sure if serious.

    EDIT: Meme added 'cause for me today is Friday:

    Yea, you trying to meme that this is about some damage competition rather than about how many targets they do damage to (aka AoE pressure) really discounted what I said. /sarcasm

    lol, ok, sorry for not being direct. Let's try this approach: Scourges are brought to a zerg for boon strip and corrupt. Full stop.

    Not because of damage.
    Not because of the amount of targets they hit.

    Boon strip. Boon corrupt.

    k?

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    This is why they are preferred over reapers and eles which can't hit 10 targets simultaneously.

    Yeah...that's the reason they are preferred....

    Not sure if serious.

    EDIT: Meme added 'cause for me today is Friday:

    Ah you're a man of class too. :)

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cuks.8241 said:
    AOE skills should not overlap. This is what many pvp games do to prevent AOE spam. Basically what this means is that you can cast multiple area of effect spells at a certain area but only one will ever hit the enemy in that area.

    That would require every aoe skill to have unlimited number of targets. Right now if you have more than 5 people in 1 aoe, none of them will take any damage/debuff.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    This is why they are preferred over reapers and eles which can't hit 10 targets simultaneously.

    Yeah...that's the reason they are preferred....

    Not sure if serious.

    EDIT: Meme added 'cause for me today is Friday:

    Yea, you trying to meme that this is about some damage competition rather than about how many targets they do damage to (aka AoE pressure) really discounted what I said. /sarcasm

    lol, ok, sorry for not being direct. Let's try this approach: Scourges are brought to a zerg for boon strip and corrupt. Full stop.

    Not because of damage.
    Not because of the amount of targets they hit.

    Boon strip. Boon corrupt.

    k?

    Daft question, but if scourges are brought because of boon strip/corrupt instead of for damage, wouldn't the number of targets they hit still be extremely relevant to the discussion of whether or not they need nerfs? Yes, the 10 targets are hit by 2 different sources, but assuming boon removal is the point, if they both boon strip from one activation of a skill then the end result is the same as if one source hits 10 people. It just has the added benefit of hitting 5 people twice as hard in melee range.

    It isn't a daft question. Scourge does have some corrupts, but so do other core necro skills/weapon skills (the actual strip is on a core weapon, focus).

    Sand Savant is the preferred trait, which increases the number of targets and area size that can be hit. So it isn't like the number of targets is meaningless. You could also build a Reaper that strips and corrupts boons, but then one would have to argue that Scourge does corrupts better because it can hit more people with its Ghastly Breach and punishment skills...

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    This is why they are preferred over reapers and eles which can't hit 10 targets simultaneously.

    Yeah...that's the reason they are preferred....

    Not sure if serious.

    EDIT: Meme added 'cause for me today is Friday:

    Yea, you trying to meme that this is about some damage competition rather than about how many targets they do damage to (aka AoE pressure) really discounted what I said. /sarcasm

    lol, ok, sorry for not being direct. Let's try this approach: Scourges are brought to a zerg for boon strip and corrupt. Full stop.

    Not because of damage.
    Not because of the amount of targets they hit.

    Boon strip. Boon corrupt.

    k?

    Daft question, but if scourges are brought because of boon strip/corrupt instead of for damage, wouldn't the number of targets they hit still be extremely relevant to the discussion of whether or not they need nerfs? Yes, the 10 targets are hit by 2 different sources, but assuming boon removal is the point, if they both boon strip from one activation of a skill then the end result is the same as if one source hits 10 people. It just has the added benefit of hitting 5 people twice as hard in melee range.

    It isn't a daft question. Scourge does have some corrupts, but so do other core necro skills/weapon skills (the actual strip is on a core weapon, focus).

    Sand Savant is the preferred trait, which increases the number of targets and area size that can be hit. So it isn't like the number of targets is meaningless. You could also build a Reaper that strips and corrupts boons, but then one would have to argue that Scourge does corrupts better because it can hit more people with its Ghastly Breach and punishment skills...

    I'm just going to leave this here:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Devouring_Darkness

    • Boons Converted to Conditions: 3
    • Number of Targets: 5

    Yes, the shades and the necromancer corrupt boons too. It's not their main corrupt though.

    As far as mincing words, it makes a huge difference balance and complexity wise if the shade hits 10 targets, or if the necromancer and shade hit 5 targets each. One can be balanced very easily, the other not as much.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    This is why they are preferred over reapers and eles which can't hit 10 targets simultaneously.

    Yeah...that's the reason they are preferred....

    Not sure if serious.

    EDIT: Meme added 'cause for me today is Friday:

    Yea, you trying to meme that this is about some damage competition rather than about how many targets they do damage to (aka AoE pressure) really discounted what I said. /sarcasm

    lol, ok, sorry for not being direct. Let's try this approach: Scourges are brought to a zerg for boon strip and corrupt. Full stop.

    Not because of damage.
    Not because of the amount of targets they hit.

    Boon strip. Boon corrupt.

    k?

    Daft question, but if scourges are brought because of boon strip/corrupt instead of for damage, wouldn't the number of targets they hit still be extremely relevant to the discussion of whether or not they need nerfs? Yes, the 10 targets are hit by 2 different sources, but assuming boon removal is the point, if they both boon strip from one activation of a skill then the end result is the same as if one source hits 10 people. It just has the added benefit of hitting 5 people twice as hard in melee range.

    It isn't a daft question. Scourge does have some corrupts, but so do other core necro skills/weapon skills (the actual strip is on a core weapon, focus).

    Sand Savant is the preferred trait, which increases the number of targets and area size that can be hit. So it isn't like the number of targets is meaningless. You could also build a Reaper that strips and corrupts boons, but then one would have to argue that Scourge does corrupts better because it can hit more people with its Ghastly Breach and punishment skills...

    I'm just going to leave this here:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Devouring_Darkness

    • Boons Converted to Conditions: 3
    • Number of Targets: 5

    Which is on a core trait line with a core weapon.

    Yes, the shades and the necromancer corrupt boons too. It's not their main corrupt though.

    Uh, shades do not. Punishment skills do.

    As far as mincing words, it makes a huge difference balance and complexity wise if the shade hits 10 targets, or if the necromancer and shade hit 5 targets each. One can be balanced very easily, the other not as much.

    That's a good and different way of looking at it. In terms of usage though, the necro being in range together with the shade before hitting the other F skills separates those who know what they are doing with the class versus those who don't.

  • So to be clear, I see on your picture they are hitting 10 targets for 2-3k each, for a total of 20-30k damage total across 10 targets. So with that in mind, it is okay for a rev to hit 5 targets for 10-15k a piece (it actually sometimes straight up downs people) then rather have the damage spread out across more targets. Okay well I am okay with this then, please remove the scourges ability to damage pulsing from itself, and double the damage that it does to five targets. I think that is quite reasonable. I will take it, as a scourge main I am find with standing out of melee and doing double damage. Im still not even going to do as much damage as rev, but its definitely preferable for a light class to stay out of Melee, and hence in wvw the pirate ship meta is once more reborn.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Scourge hits 10 targets for 3k, 30k total dmg (half of which you have to be melee) . CoR hits 5 targets for 10-15 K per hit, at range, meaning 50-75k. With lower cd. One would argue that scourge's main job isnt damage, but that means one should know wvw basics. Yes, BASICS. Its 2019, scourges have been nerfed time and again, boons being spammed reign supreme, scrappers adding more sustain than ever, yet we still QQ about... Scourge and its targets.

    insert Owen Wilson WOW meme

    @Nightshade.2570 said:
    So to be clear, I see on your picture they are hitting 10 targets for 2-3k each, for a total of 20-30k damage total across 10 targets. So with that in mind, it is okay for a rev to hit 5 targets for 10-15k a piece (it actually sometimes straight up downs people) then rather have the damage spread out across more targets. Okay well I am okay with this then, please remove the scourges ability to damage pulsing from itself, and double the damage that it does to five targets. I think that is quite reasonable. I will take it, as a scourge main I am find with standing out of melee and doing double damage. Im still not even going to do as much damage as rev, but its definitely preferable for a light class to stay out of Melee, and hence in wvw the pirate ship meta is once more reborn.

    i'm not sure why you guys are bringing up rev. this isn't about rev. yes, some classes do more damage then necro. necros job is to corrupt boons. that's just how it is. want more damage? play reaper.

    also note that there were still two more ticks to that f5 skill, and I was quite obviously in pvp where damage is a lot lower. again tho, its not about damage at all. want f5 damage upped if 10 targets gets nerfed? fine whatever lol.

  • Brother.1504Brother.1504 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    This is why they are preferred over reapers and eles which can't hit 10 targets simultaneously.

    Yeah...that's the reason they are preferred....

    Not sure if serious.

    EDIT: Meme added 'cause for me today is Friday:

    Yea, you trying to meme that this is about some damage competition rather than about how many targets they do damage to (aka AoE pressure) really discounted what I said. /sarcasm

    lol, ok, sorry for not being direct. Let's try this approach: Scourges are brought to a zerg for boon strip and corrupt. Full stop.

    Not because of damage.
    Not because of the amount of targets they hit.

    Boon strip. Boon corrupt.

    k?

    This person knows how the game works.

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    Frankly it doesn't matter how many targets a Scourge can hit. Anet could increase the target cap to 50 and the majority of the time Scourges will still be eating dirt instead of playing and being useful. They are just way way too slow and way way way too easy to kill. I'm sure people have noticed in this core swap event just how many necro orbs drop.. it's uncanny. They just can't seem to stay alive at all.. ever. Now if we take a Rev for example (because Rev was brought up in this thread), if t

    I look at it this way, because they are such easy targets, there needs to be some sort of trade-off in the mix. Anet happened to give them a 10 target cap when the shade is combined with the necro itself. Frankly, I don't think this is remotely enough to compensate for how slow they are.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't see how this is a conversation. Necros are needed for boon corruption to deal with the boon sharing, no other class can corrupt as much or as fast as they can, they're certainly not the top damaging class, so who cares if they can hit 10 targets(5 from 2 separate sources), even with hitting that much you still need multiple necros to even make it effective against boon zergs.

    We always have people coming in here complaining about aoes having caps to deal with zergs, you're seriously coming in here complaining the opposite?
    Sometimes these forums are so upside the head.

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    I don't see how this is a conversation. Necros are needed for boon corruption to deal with the boon sharing, no other class can corrupt as much or as fast as they can, they're certainly not the top damaging class, so who cares if they can hit 10 targets

    The OP didn't really give his opinion on why the higher target cap with shades should be removed so it is difficult to comment on that. But Sand Savant is still the preferred trait in WvW for reasons other than corrupts, which core necro also can do.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    bring revs weavers hammer 2 meteors profit byebye scourge

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • L A T I O N.8923L A T I O N.8923 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Shaogin.2679 said:
    Shade skills hit 5 targets if you take the trait Sand Savant. The other 5 targets are being hit from the attack that pulses off of your character when using a shade skill. The max targets you can hit from range therefore is still only 5.

    not disputed, slightly irrelevant.

    Not irrelevant since your original claim was shade skills hit 10 targets.

    It's 5 targets from shade and 5 targets from the necromancer who has to actually be in range.

    A possible solution could be to put all effects on the shade and remove the double effect from the necromancer making scourge more dependant on positioning his shade. Obviously shade skills would then have to be buffed, which would cause a new issue of more ranged pressure.

    In melee range my melee weapon...you know what should be stronger
    Just hit 3 tsrgets...
    Your statement still 10 no matter what

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    This is why they are preferred over reapers and eles which can't hit 10 targets simultaneously.

    Yeah...that's the reason they are preferred....

    Not sure if serious.

    EDIT: Meme added 'cause for me today is Friday:

    Yea, you trying to meme that this is about some damage competition rather than about how many targets they do damage to (aka AoE pressure) really discounted what I said. /sarcasm

    lol, ok, sorry for not being direct. Let's try this approach: Scourges are brought to a zerg for boon strip and corrupt. Full stop.

    Not because of damage.
    Not because of the amount of targets they hit.

    Boon strip. Boon corrupt.

    k?

    Daft question, but if scourges are brought because of boon strip/corrupt instead of for damage, wouldn't the number of targets they hit still be extremely relevant to the discussion of whether or not they need nerfs? Yes, the 10 targets are hit by 2 different sources, but assuming boon removal is the point, if they both boon strip from one activation of a skill then the end result is the same as if one source hits 10 people. It just has the added benefit of hitting 5 people twice as hard in melee range.

    It isn't a daft question. Scourge does have some corrupts, but so do other core necro skills/weapon skills (the actual strip is on a core weapon, focus).

    Sand Savant is the preferred trait, which increases the number of targets and area size that can be hit. So it isn't like the number of targets is meaningless. You could also build a Reaper that strips and corrupts boons, but then one would have to argue that Scourge does corrupts better because it can hit more people with its Ghastly Breach and punishment skills...

    I'm just going to leave this here:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Devouring_Darkness

    • Boons Converted to Conditions: 3
    • Number of Targets: 5

    Which is on a core trait line with a core weapon.

    and not run on Reaper...

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Yes, the shades and the necromancer corrupt boons too. It's not their main corrupt though.

    Uh, shades do not. Punishment skills do.

    It makes almost no difference balance wise since you only affect 1 skill/trait which is responsible for boon corruption.

    Yes, I did shorten my reply since the relevance here was low. Yes, it is the skills procced around the necromancer and shade which corrupt boons.

    Still makes the scepter the main boon corrupt which requires a condi focused traitline which synergizes best with scourge.

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    As far as mincing words, it makes a huge difference balance and complexity wise if the shade hits 10 targets, or if the necromancer and shade hit 5 targets each. One can be balanced very easily, the other not as much.

    That's a good and different way of looking at it. In terms of usage though, the necro being in range together with the shade before hitting the other F skills separates those who know what they are doing with the class versus those who don't.

    It's the main reason why I disagreed with OPs complaint and why most people in this thread take issue.

    I'm not saying I agree with necromancer hitting 10 targets (I don't actually) but the approach to balance this is a lot more complicated than simply reducing the targets hit.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    I don't see how this is a conversation. Necros are needed for boon corruption to deal with the boon sharing, no other class can corrupt as much or as fast as they can, they're certainly not the top damaging class, so who cares if they can hit 10 targets(5 from 2 separate sources), even with hitting that much you still need multiple necros to even make it effective against boon zergs.

    We always have people coming in here complaining about aoes having caps to deal with zergs, you're seriously coming in here complaining the opposite?
    Sometimes these forums are so upside the head.

    lol. scourge damage is usually always good, near top. maybe you don't play in groups all that much. then there is the potential to give 7k barrier to 10 ppl. which is huge.

    some classes and skills could use an aoe buff, but not scourge. would think that's obvious.

  • hunkamania.7561hunkamania.7561 Member ✭✭✭

    If it doesn't effect PVE it's a non issue. WVW is balanced around PVE and maybe a little PVP but exclusive wvw balance is a non issue to the Anet devs since they don't know that the WVW gamemode is a thing.

    Ferguson's Crossing Server Leader

    WVW LEADER

    VR

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    10 targets is a bit much for the number of skills they get with the effect but the real problem is that a condi support class is doing that much power dmg.. If any thing scorge power dmg is way too high for its shades and shades effects that the real problem.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    I don't see how this is a conversation. Necros are needed for boon corruption to deal with the boon sharing, no other class can corrupt as much or as fast as they can, they're certainly not the top damaging class, so who cares if they can hit 10 targets(5 from 2 separate sources), even with hitting that much you still need multiple necros to even make it effective against boon zergs.

    We always have people coming in here complaining about aoes having caps to deal with zergs, you're seriously coming in here complaining the opposite?
    Sometimes these forums are so upside the head.

    lol. scourge damage is usually always good, near top. maybe you don't play in groups all that much. then there is the potential to give 7k barrier to 10 ppl. which is huge.

    some classes and skills could use an aoe buff, but not scourge. would think that's obvious.

    I said "certainly not the top damaging class", I didn't say not in the top five or even top three of damaging classes in wvw, there's a difference.
    This discussion is still pointless.

    P.S I said it from the beginning of pof, engineers should have been given the shield mechanic to be part of the new meta, scourges didn't need it. Just another defensive mechanic to deal with the increase in damage.

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    This discussion is still pointless.

    its only pointless if you tunnel vision on one thing, like you are doing right now.

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    for those of you not aware, shade skills plus the necro hit 10 targets. i'm not sure if its the same for support traits/ skills, but i'm pretty sure it is.

    edit
    its shade + necro
    edit
    barrier is granted to 10 ppl

    Fully agreed.
    As a necro main, I can tell you that even I feel obnoxiously OP at tagging stuff compared to other classes.

    One way of changing it would be to remove all effects from the player and make it affect shades only.

    F1 shade placement must be made instant cast though to balance this.

    So the Scourge has to choose between range casting with shade or casting shade on self.

    Ammo count should preferably be increased to 5 maybe.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2019

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    I didn't say not in the top five or even top three of damaging classes in wvw, there's a difference.

    No you didn't say that but there's a reason... Hint: 10 targets

    No better way to nerf their damage and area denial while keeping their boon corrupts intact. Hint: 10 targets.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    o.o;; pls dont nerf our cheese toon. it kills bad players easy

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 14, 2019

    Would be a great change for wvw,its such a braindead aoe spamm fest.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i'm thinkin maybe the offense stuff could be centered around the shade, and the support stuff could be centered around the necro.

  • Straegen.2938Straegen.2938 Member ✭✭✭

    Damage should be X divided by the number of targets not X times the number of targets. I could careless that meteor storm or some other AoE hits 100 players. What I care about is that 100 x 4k shots is absurd DPS.

    Granted the big change to AoE was to deal with lag issues but IMO it was a very poor design decision to basically have spamable AoE in an action combat game of this scale. If they left it to me, spam AoE attacks would be systematically replaced and the few that remain would be class defining skills.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Straegen.2938 said:
    Damage should be X divided by the number of targets not X times the number of targets. I could careless that meteor storm or some other AoE hits 100 players. What I care about is that 100 x 4k shots is absurd DPS.

    Granted the big change to AoE was to deal with lag issues but IMO it was a very poor design decision to basically have spamable AoE in an action combat game of this scale. If they left it to me, spam AoE attacks would be systematically replaced and the few that remain would be class defining skills.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Meteor_Shower

    It doesnt hit "100 players". Or that it is "100X4k". Each subsequent hit deals less dmg. Unless your server likes to go into a big, red circle of AoE.

  • Straegen.2938Straegen.2938 Member ✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    It doesnt hit "100 players". Or that it is "100X4k". Each subsequent hit deals less dmg. Unless your server likes to go into a big, red circle of AoE.

    Attack damage should not be additive or multiplicative. Without the AoE cap, any AoE could easily hit 50 players. Pick any AoE... without a cap the DPS is insane. Damage should be calculated as X damage divided by Y players with no cap. Each meteor should deal X damage in total spread across however many players are in its AoE.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    nuuuuu dont nerf the weaver too. its what we use to kill guild groups.

    my glob. dont want to play the single target game focus.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Djamonja.6453Djamonja.6453 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    I didn't say not in the top five or even top three of damaging classes in wvw, there's a difference.

    No you didn't say that but there's a reason... Hint: 10 targets

    No better way to nerf their damage and area denial while keeping their boon corrupts intact. Hint: 10 targets.

    Reapers can do more damage than scourge, but scourge is better because of the boon strips.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    this would only be relevant in WvW where if a necro get's close enough to the enemy zerg to hit the max 10 ppl (because he has to get close) he's most of the time dead within 4 seconds.

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @derd.6413 said:
    this would only be relevant in WvW where if a necro get's close enough to the enemy zerg to hit the max 10 ppl (because he has to get close) he's most of the time dead within 4 seconds.

    ah, you're an enlightened person too :3

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    @Straegen.2938 said:
    Damage should be X divided by the number of targets not X times the number of targets. I could careless that meteor storm or some other AoE hits 100 players. What I care about is that 100 x 4k shots is absurd DPS.

    Granted the big change to AoE was to deal with lag issues but IMO it was a very poor design decision to basically have spamable AoE in an action combat game of this scale. If they left it to me, spam AoE attacks would be systematically replaced and the few that remain would be class defining skills.

    .....

    Okay since once again people don't spend 1 minute on actually considering what their idea actually means, let's do some theoretical math on how this would end up in either scenario.

    Let's assume a target cap of 5 players, let's assume damage of 4k per player if 5 players are hit (those are the given numbers so far) and thus a skill damage of 20k total and let's see what happens:

    AoE damage affects all targets until cap similarly (aka it gets multiplied by the amount of targets as is right now):
    For 5 Targets: 4k x 5 = 20k total damage
    For 3 Targets: 4k x 3 = 12k total damage
    For 1 Target: 4k x 1 = 4k total damage

    AoE damage is divided by the amount of targets hit thus resulting in less damage per target to more targets (given Suggestion):
    For 5 Targets: 20k total damage/5 = 4k damage per target
    For 3 Targets: 20k/3 = 6.6k damage per target
    For 1 Target: 20k/1 = 20k damage to target

    Yes, please change this. I can't wait to have people instant die to AoE skills when caught out...

    TL;DR:
    There is a logical reason as to why damage in this game scales per player AND is capped in targets. The target cap prevents power creeping over a certain value X while at the same time allowing for a certain growth in efficiency. The multiplication per target instead of division prevents over performance against less than the target capped targets.

    FYI, if meteor shower were balanced without a target cap and for hitting up to 100 players, those numbers up top would get even worse for smaller amounts of targets.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just put it to small aoes and scourge aoe gets balanced.

  • Brother.1504Brother.1504 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thief steal should hit 10 people. It’s only fair.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Brother.1504 said:
    Thief steal should hit 10 people. It’s only Fair.

    Keyboards have f1 to f12
    It would be game changer right???

  • Nath Forge Tempete.1645Nath Forge Tempete.1645 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Scourge hits 10 targets for 3k, 30k total dmg (half of which you have to be melee) . CoR hits 5 targets for 10-15 K per hit, at range, meaning 50-75k. With lower cd. One would argue that scourge's main job isnt damage, but that means one should know wvw basics. Yes, BASICS. Its 2019, scourges have been nerfed time and again, boons being spammed reign supreme, scrappers adding more sustain than ever, yet we still QQ about... Scourge and its targets.

    insert Owen Wilson WOW meme

    10 or 15 k on CoR Only if scourge has previously corrupt protection and aegis on the target

    But giving the most broken example to defend the second best one isn't really helping.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Scourge hits 10 targets for 3k, 30k total dmg (half of which you have to be melee) . CoR hits 5 targets for 10-15 K per hit, at range, meaning 50-75k. With lower cd. One would argue that scourge's main job isnt damage, but that means one should know wvw basics. Yes, BASICS. Its 2019, scourges have been nerfed time and again, boons being spammed reign supreme, scrappers adding more sustain than ever, yet we still QQ about... Scourge and its targets.

    insert Owen Wilson WOW meme

    10 or 15 k on CoE Only if scourge has previously corrupt protection and aegis on the target

    But giving the most broken example to defend the second best one isn't really helping.

    I would use ele meteor, but it is a no brainer to try to get out of that big, bad Red AoE circle. Just like scourge shroud. Unlike CoR that has no visible tell. Oh well, I guess its back to basics for me!

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