Ele changes in the latest patch notes — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Ele changes in the latest patch notes

steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited July 11, 2019 in Elementalist

In addition to various tempest improvements, this update includes a major change in how core elemental specialization lines work. The weapon-cooldown traits are being merged into the grandmaster minor traits for the four primary elemental lines. Previously, the cooldown trait and other available options were mutually exclusive, and its nature of letting you use abilities more frequently tended to crowd out those alternatives. By folding this functionality into a minor trait, we are recognizing that taking an elemental specialization represents an investment in that element's skills. The traits that used to host the cooldown reductions have each been adjusted to account for these changes.

  • Overload Air: Increased damage of the Static Charge effect provided by this skill by 20%. Fixed a bug that prevented Electric Discharge from firing.
  • Earthen Blast: Increased the number of targets from 3 to 5. Fixed an incorrect damage tooltip and added a missing tooltip for Combat Only.
  • Electric Discharge: Added a missing tooltip for Combat Only.
  • Sunspot: Fixed an incorrect damage tooltip.
  • Tempest Overload Skills: Casting these skills now triggers the traits Sunspot, Healing Ripple, Electric Discharge, or Earthen Blast, depending on the element.
  • Pyromancer's Training: This trait has been moved to the grandmaster minor slot, and its functionality has changed. It now reduces recharge on fire weapon skills by 20% and causes the
    elementalist to deal 10% increased damage to burning foes.

  • Burning Rage: This trait has moved to the master tier as a major trait, and its functionality has changed. It now grants +180 condition damage and augments the attack from the Sunspot
    minor trait to have 60 additional range and apply 2 stacks of burning for 5 seconds.

  • Aquamancer's Training: This trait has been moved to the grandmaster minor slot, and its functionality has changed. It now reduces recharge on water weapon skills by 20% and increases healing to other allies by 15%.

  • Aquatic Benevolence: This trait has been removed, and its functionality has been combined with Aquamancer's Training.
  • Flow like Water: This new trait takes the slot previously occupied by Aquamancer's Training and increases damage dealt by 10% while the elementalist is above 75% health. Additionally, it heals the elementalist when they block or evade an attack. The healing effect has a 10-second cooldown.
  • Piercing Shards: This trait now grants half its 20% bonus damage to vulnerable foes when not attuned to water. The full bonus damage is still applied while attuned to water.
  • Aeromancer's Training: This trait has been moved to the grandmaster minor slot, and its functionality has changed. It now reduces recharge on air weapon skills by 20% and grants 150 ferocity. The ferocity bonus is doubled while attuned to air.
  • Raging Storm: This trait has been moved to the master tier as a major trait, and it has a new icon. The ferocity bonus granted by this trait has been reduced from 240 to 180.
  • Geomancer's Training: This trait has been moved to the grandmaster minor slot, and its functionality has changed. It now reduces recharge on earth weapon skills by 20% and reduces incoming damage by 10% from foes within a range of 360.
  • Geomancer's Defense: This trait has been removed, and its functionality has been combined with Geomancer's Training.
  • Strength of Stone: In addition to its previous effects, this trait now also causes the elementalist to inflict 3 stacks of bleeding for 10 seconds when immobilizing a foe.
  • Earthen Blessing: This new trait takes the slot previously occupied by Geomancer's Training. It reduces the duration of movement-impairing conditions by 33% and grants 10 endurance whenever the elementalist is affected by one of these conditions.
  • Burning Precision: Increased burning duration from 2 seconds to 3 seconds.
  • Primordial Stance: Reduced ammo recharge time from 25 seconds to 20 seconds.
  • Swift Revenge: Increased bonus damage from 7% to 10%.

I remember a lot of these being mentioned in "concerns about ele" thread and I'm happy about these. Certainly heading the right direction with this patch.

The only thing I dont understand is addition of burning rage as condi trait in master tier (there's already a condi trait there which gives very similar effect). On the other side, condi weaver in pve is the next top benchmark potential.

Deso's favorite FROG
Master of afk and kiting
The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
Froggo himself

<1

Comments

  • Staff weaver just ate a 20% damage nerf, and tempest gets a mild buff.

    Gotcha... :/

  • Sooo we still cant catch up to anyone for kitten but luckily some classes had their super speed access nerfed...so there's that. Also kitten when are they gonna fix mount bug. So many times I jump off my mount to engage only to find out my skills have been flipped around and then im stuck in a few seconds of awkwardness trying to regain my attunements while the enemy is already doing their normal rotation.

  • As a staff ele just got nerfed again in WvW thanks

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Flazzard.1796 said:
    As a staff ele just got nerfed again in WvW thanks

    It's actually a buff because you can camp air during your MS/fgs 5, while having free cleanse from fire master trait.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • @steki.1478 said:

    @Flazzard.1796 said:
    As a staff ele just got nerfed again in WvW thanks

    It's actually a buff because you can camp air during your MS/fgs 5, while having free cleanse from fire master trait.

    Wth are you on about?

    You just ate a 10% damage nerf off the top. Minimum.

    The cleanse trait in fire trait line is trash, as it has a 40 second icd.

    And your 10% damage buff is conditional on your foes being on fire, which any competent group is running PoP scrappers so thats another 10% nerf.

  • @c space cowboy.2764 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Flazzard.1796 said:
    As a staff ele just got nerfed again in WvW thanks

    It's actually a buff because you can camp air during your MS/fgs 5, while having free cleanse from fire master trait.

    Wth are you on about?

    You just ate a 10% damage nerf off the top. Minimum.

    The cleanse trait in fire trait line is trash, as it has a 40 second icd.

    And your 10% damage buff is conditional on your foes being on fire, which any competent group is running PoP scrappers so thats another 10% nerf.

    I think it was sarcastic xD

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    @Vissarion.6509 said:
    How are these good changes to Ele? Power builds are now nerfed to the ground. Straight up 10% dmg nerf in Fire and master majors are all useless for Power builds. Less ferocity in Air and you are now locked to get Raging Storm if you want to have fury and ferocity. Those changes are garbage, sorry.

    10% only worked while in fire spec anyway and persisting flames is still the same and benefits both power and condi builds. In air you lose 6% crit damage which isnt game breaking either (and you gain more than it's lost while attuned to air, which is actually good because you have no reason to camp fire during your big bombs now). Dont forget that weaver received 3% buff, primordial stance got lower cooldown and other classes got nerfed as well.

    QoL from this patch is huge on the other side. There's a lot less traits that work only in 1 attunement, a lot of them are global now. Water is a possible option for dps now. Condi weaver and tempest received huge buffs.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @c space cowboy.2764 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Flazzard.1796 said:
    As a staff ele just got nerfed again in WvW thanks

    It's actually a buff because you can camp air during your MS/fgs 5, while having free cleanse from fire master trait.

    Wth are you on about?

    You just ate a 10% damage nerf off the top. Minimum.

    The cleanse trait in fire trait line is trash, as it has a 40 second icd.

    And your 10% damage buff is conditional on your foes being on fire, which any competent group is running PoP scrappers so thats another 10% nerf.

    Master trait, not adept one. Cleanse on fire aura. Ferocity in air is actually global now, but doubled in air. Considering that you dont need to be in fire anymore, you straight up have more ferocity all the time now, which is pretty much the buff, or in the worst case same as before.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • @steki.1478 said:

    @c space cowboy.2764 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Flazzard.1796 said:
    As a staff ele just got nerfed again in WvW thanks

    It's actually a buff because you can camp air during your MS/fgs 5, while having free cleanse from fire master trait.

    Wth are you on about?

    You just ate a 10% damage nerf off the top. Minimum.

    The cleanse trait in fire trait line is trash, as it has a 40 second icd.

    And your 10% damage buff is conditional on your foes being on fire, which any competent group is running PoP scrappers so thats another 10% nerf.

    Master trait, not adept one. Cleanse on fire aura. Ferocity in air is actually global now, but doubled in air. Considering that you dont need to be in fire anymore, you straight up have more ferocity all the time now, which is pretty much the buff, or in the worst case same as before.

    Since when does 90 ferocity = 10% flat damage boost+150 power?

  • LazySummer.2568LazySummer.2568 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    Edit: wait nvm I think there's actually a 10% dmg nerf in fire line overall Lol, not too sure about air yet.

    Edit2: yep, nvm. I think it's overall dps nerf on eles (power for sure) since now you don't even have the option of taking Stormsoul and the change to Pyromancer's and Burning Rage are actually terrible. All this in exchange for some global weapon skill cd reduction that we can already get half of without the patch. Trash class stay trash as expected. Doesn't matter, I'm just enjoying my casual afking in dragonfall and bashing dragon pinatas while I'm on my ele and playing the 8 other good classes in the actual game like it's meant to be by this balance team. I've recently found Berserker spin2win to be actually kind of fun =).

    One of the very few patches for Ele I'm surprsied and happy about because it seems to be all buffs and it doesn't seem like there's another one of those bs preemptive nerfs or straight up nerfs. Maybe the change to Raging Storm will end up nerfing staff weavers a little but the damage lost from not taking Stormsoul is kind of made up with the buff to Swift Revenge and the outgoing stun duration increase is basically flat out useless while the cd reduction for air skills are actually useful.

    Still not very happy about Tempest not really getting any meaningful buff though. Although the healing ripple / fire aura on overload is not bad, but other classes such as scrapper gets more significant buffs as a support while no real nerfs were done support fb/rev/chrono/druid/scourge, which means it's still pointless to take a tempest when you can take all these other better support classes.

    Overall I doubt ele's position in any game mode will change after this patch but maybe if this continues it will change some day (5 years later maybe if we're talking about a balance patch every ~3 months).

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    Quick math for core fire and air traits:

    Before patch - 150 power in fire, 10% dmg in fire || 10% dmg vs burning foes, 240 ferocity with fury, both global || 180 ferocity in air

    After patch: 150 power + 180 condi damage in fire || 10% dmg vs burning foes, 180 ferocity with fury, 150 ferocity aeromancer, all global || 150 ferocity in air

    While attuned to fire, damage loss is 10%, but you gain 90 ferocity (6% crit damage), overall nullified with weaver buff on swift revenge.
    While attuned to air you gain 60 ferocity (4% crit damage).

    Overall small dps loss while attuned to fire, buff while in air. However, primordial stance cd got reduced by 5 sec and you get some improved burns from new burning rage (in pve) which should technically make weaver better than it used to be.

    edits: dont ask.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • @steki.1478 said:

    @Vissarion.6509 said:
    How are these good changes to Ele? Power builds are now nerfed to the ground. Straight up 10% dmg nerf in Fire and master majors are all useless for Power builds. Less ferocity in Air and you are now locked to get Raging Storm if you want to have fury and ferocity. Those changes are garbage, sorry.

    10% only worked while in fire spec anyway and persisting flames is still the same and benefits both power and condi builds. In air you lose 6% crit damage which isnt game breaking either (and you gain more than it's lost while attuned to air, which is actually good because you have no reason to camp fire during your big bombs now). Dont forget that weaver received 3% buff, primordial stance got lower cooldown and other classes got nerfed as well.

    QoL from this patch is huge on the other side. There's a lot less traits that work only in 1 attunement, a lot of them are global now. Water is a possible option for dps now. Condi weaver and tempest received huge buffs.

    Condi builds are outclassed by far by many other classes anyway. And now we lose most of our Damage modifiers too, so we will deal even less damage.

    Maybe it's time to buff meteor shower ....

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    @Vissarion.6509 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Vissarion.6509 said:
    How are these good changes to Ele? Power builds are now nerfed to the ground. Straight up 10% dmg nerf in Fire and master majors are all useless for Power builds. Less ferocity in Air and you are now locked to get Raging Storm if you want to have fury and ferocity. Those changes are garbage, sorry.

    10% only worked while in fire spec anyway and persisting flames is still the same and benefits both power and condi builds. In air you lose 6% crit damage which isnt game breaking either (and you gain more than it's lost while attuned to air, which is actually good because you have no reason to camp fire during your big bombs now). Dont forget that weaver received 3% buff, primordial stance got lower cooldown and other classes got nerfed as well.

    QoL from this patch is huge on the other side. There's a lot less traits that work only in 1 attunement, a lot of them are global now. Water is a possible option for dps now. Condi weaver and tempest received huge buffs.

    Condi builds are outclassed by far by many other classes anyway. And now we lose most of our Damage modifiers too, so we will deal even less damage.

    Maybe it's time to buff meteor shower ....

    Check my comment above.

    Nevermind lol Brain fart.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • lLobo.7960lLobo.7960 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    Seems like a small nerf to the PVE power sword weaver. taking into account the changes in air and fire, seems like a 3-4% nerf (less dmg while in fire, more ferocity and burns, small dmg buff from weaver).
    A small buff to condi weaver and hybrid weaver in PVE, maybe 3-4% too, so maybe the griever weaver will be on pair with power weaver for raids and fractals. Boss phases could still be an issue to condi.

    In PvP seems fire weaver will take a bit of a hit in its dmg. Water weaver might actually get a buff with this since aquamancer training went to minor and now there are some nice options in its place, flow like water seems quite nice.
    The biggest buff to ele in PvP is the nerf to everything else... rangers seek'em nerfed, scrapper sustain nerfed, rev dmg and chills nerfed, necro sustain nerfed...

    The big question is... Have they fixed the stability?

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @c space cowboy.2764 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    Quick math for core fire and air traits:

    Before patch - 150 power in fire, 10% dmg in fire || 10% dmg vs burning foes, 240 ferocity with fury, both global || 180 ferocity in air

    After patch: 150 power in fire || 10% dmg vs burning foes, 180 ferocity with fury, 150 ferocity aeromancer, all global || 150 ferocity in air

    While attuned to fire, damage loss is 10%, but you gain 90 ferocity (6% crit damage), overall nullified with weaver buff on swift revenge.
    While attuned to air you gain 60 ferocity (4% crit damage).

    edit: overlooked burning rage trait..rip 10% global damage.. At least it was useless in wvw already.

    Your calcs are off.

    Crit damage does not equal power, period.

    So you lose 150 power, and a flat 10% damage boost by dual attuning to air now.

    After the patch, the only thing you gain by running fire trait line is 150 power, and you have to attune to it to use it. Now without the global 10% boost its moot.

    It was a flat nerf.

    You would attune to air at some point anyway, now you can simply use FA and attune to air as soon as you use your fire skills (and primordial stance in pve). In pve I'm certain that FA s/w is better than before patch because you can stack up some serious burns from new burning rage as well as buffed primordial stance.

    In wvw your main damage comes from MS and fgs5, which you can both cast while in air spec. Even before these changes, being fully in fire and being fully in air had almost no dps difference because ferocity you gain in air with FA is huge and now it's even higher and you get free 2 cleanses when you attune to fire. The only thing you lose is 10% damage while using fireball, but since you have some global ferocity and buff from swift revenge, that difference is non existent.

    PS. I edited the comment above several times because I got confused with what was removed only to see that it wasnt removed at all.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lLobo.7960 said:
    Seems like a small nerf to the PVE power sword weaver. taking into account the changes in air and fire, seems like a 3-4% nerf (less dmg while in fire, more ferocity and burns, small dmg buff from weaver).
    A small buff to condi weaver and hybrid weaver in PVE, maybe 3-4% too, so maybe the griever weaver will be on pair with power weaver for raids and fractals. Boss phases could still be an issue to condi.

    In PvP seems fire weaver will take a bit of a hit in its dmg. Water weaver might actually get a buff with this since aquamancer training went to minor and now there are some nice options in its place, flow like water seems quite nice.
    The biggest buff to ele in PvP is the nerf to everything else... rangers seek'em nerfed, scrapper sustain nerfed, rev dmg and chills nerfed, necro sustain nerfed...

    The big question is... Have they fixed the stability?

    Primordial stance buffed, aoe burns when attuning fire, 180 condi while in fire, always present cdr on fire skills (as far as I know the build wasnt using pyromancer training anyway). The only thing it lost was potential 10% damage while being in fire (and pvp weaver barely has any direct damage). I dont know why I'm the only one that sees big buffs in condi ele from this patch.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Vova.2640Vova.2640 Member ✭✭✭

    they may as well delete fire traits at this point.

  • lLobo.7960lLobo.7960 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    @steki.1478 said:

    @lLobo.7960 said:
    Seems like a small nerf to the PVE power sword weaver. taking into account the changes in air and fire, seems like a 3-4% nerf (less dmg while in fire, more ferocity and burns, small dmg buff from weaver).
    A small buff to condi weaver and hybrid weaver in PVE, maybe 3-4% too, so maybe the griever weaver will be on pair with power weaver for raids and fractals. Boss phases could still be an issue to condi.

    In PvP seems fire weaver will take a bit of a hit in its dmg. Water weaver might actually get a buff with this since aquamancer training went to minor and now there are some nice options in its place, flow like water seems quite nice.
    The biggest buff to ele in PvP is the nerf to everything else... rangers seek'em nerfed, scrapper sustain nerfed, rev dmg and chills nerfed, necro sustain nerfed...

    The big question is... Have they fixed the stability?

    Primordial stance buffed, aoe burns when attuning fire, 180 condi while in fire, always present cdr on fire skills (as far as I know the build wasnt using pyromancer training anyway). The only thing it lost was potential 10% damage while being in fire (and pvp weaver barely has any direct damage). I dont know why I'm the only one that sees big buffs in condi ele from this patch.

    The PvE condi spec definitely got a buff, I'm just not sure if the buff in the condi side will be enough to cover the loss of dmg for the usual power build, it might come close, well have to see.
    I don't think its a bad change, I always advocated for more condi/hybrid in fire and more power/crit in air.

    Also, the condi fire tempest build might be a great option again (for raids) with the changes to fire and overloads.

    The d/d weaver pvp/wvw build might be doing quite nice, and even core d/d with fire/water/arcane might be an interesting option again.

  • Zunki.3916Zunki.3916 Member ✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:
    Quick math for core fire and air traits:

    Before patch - 150 power in fire, 10% dmg in fire || 10% dmg vs burning foes, 240 ferocity with fury, both global || 180 ferocity in air

    After patch: 150 power + 180 condi damage in fire || 10% dmg vs burning foes, 180 ferocity with fury, 150 ferocity aeromancer, all global || 150 ferocity in air

    While attuned to fire, damage loss is 10%, but you gain 90 ferocity (6% crit damage), overall nullified with weaver buff on swift revenge.
    While attuned to air you gain 60 ferocity (4% crit damage).

    Overall small dps loss while attuned to fire, buff while in air. However, primordial stance cd got reduced by 5 sec and you get some improved burns from new burning rage (in pve) which should technically make weaver better than it used to be.

    edits: dont ask.

    Also, maybe use flame legion runes now, as the improvment on burn dmg is huge and scholar is imho kitten if you aren't on farm or are pugging. And on farm nothing really matters anyways.

    Viable != Optimal

    Not viable = You only get carried, 10 players with a build as "viable as yours" can't properly do it.

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    Flow Like Water: 10% when above 75% HP
    Piercing Shards: 10% vs Vulnerable globally, 20% in water.
    +Air line bonuses

    vs

    +150 Power only from Fire
    +Air

    Now if 150 Power is worth more than potential 20% (with all the cleansing shenanigans and 75% condition), then Water is probably a better pick if you think that damage vs Burning foes condition won't be met. I don't know if 150 is equal to 10% flat damage though, if it is equal or less then Ele can now keep up Soothing Mist as a DPS with no harm, if it isn't then Ele gets a damage nerf for the ability to provide 80 heal/s, and further more damage nerf if enemies cleansed Vulnerable and further nerfs if the HP is below 75%. Overall, it's a buff if all conditions are perfectly met with 80/s heals... hmmmm... but it's a nerf if one condition isn't met.

    Weaver was able to give 3% more damage this patch, but I don't know. Guess it's not a cool patch if you are looking for a specialized class. The only buff coming from this patch is Bunker Weaver seeing some global attunements buff and Fire Weaver seeing more Fire skills' spam.

    Regarding PvE, the bursting potential of Ele will be lower as only in Air will it be considered a buff, in Fire though which makes up 50% of the rotation, it's a 10% damage nerf minus 3% and 90 Ferocity more from new Air lines vs 240 of Raging Storm - the left hand side has some nerfs to show - that's if on Weaver, on Tempest; I believe it's a buff because of Air Overload spam and Air camping (and they run Arcane instead of Fire anyway), so Weaver will go down as a Power build, might go up as a Condi, but we know Condi Weaver has lots of problems in PvE. The benchmark of Tempest will be better, but Weaver's burst is no longer useful because it got nerfed.

    The patch is good for a jack of all trades, but is beneath neutral for a specialized DPS.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    Earth line is still pointless because Arcane is a must pick for any Ele build in order to duel, which leaves us with one slot left if running an e-spec. Clearly all other lines have either better control, sustain, damage vs the tons of 'IFs" in Earth that still provides no Resistance or consistent Stab to be considered a solid pick vs conditions or CC spam. Still the lose-lose line.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • Mil.3562Mil.3562 Member ✭✭✭

    @Auburner.6945 said:
    Earth line is still pointless because Arcane is a must pick for any Ele build in order to duel, which leaves us with one slot left if running an e-spec. Clearly all other lines have either better control, sustain, damage vs the tons of 'IFs" in Earth that still provides no Resistance or consistent Stab to be considered a solid pick vs conditions or CC spam. Still the lose-lose line.

    It may be pointless in pvp but in WvW, Earth line is almost a must for auramancer and healing tempest.

    A patch that nerfs (minus) dps weaver but gives a slight buff (plus) to healing tempest, so I guess this is what ANet meant by balanced patch.

  • lLobo.7960lLobo.7960 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ganathar.4956 said:
    I think sword will be fine. However, staff got another needless nerf and it's probably a completely trash weapon now. Way to enforce the scourge and herald meta in WvW even harder. There needs to be a fire master trait that is focused on power, because having two condi traits makes no sense. Also, staff finally needs to be seriously looked at by the balance devs. It's the slowest weapon in the game for mediocre damage and some okay CC. It's not good enough. Also, I feel the need to point out that arcane fury needs to return now. The reason why it was changed to might is because speccing air gave lots of fury from raging storm. Now you can choose not to take the fury since it's a major trait, so there is no reason for the arcane adept minor to give 1 stack of might anymore. Change it back to fury.

    Apart from that the changes are not that bad and the direction they want to go in is nice, but the glaring oversights soured what otherwise would have been a good patch.

    Make fireball, lava fount, and meteors apply burning. Make skill 3 copy burning from the target to 5 other foes. Staff need some more condi.
    Make arcane fury provide lesser arcane power on attunement swap (lesser arcane power: critical hit with your next 3 attacks, gain extra ferocity). This will not make fury easy to access, but will give the ele some nice burst for when swaping attunements and will have some cool interaction with arcane utility traits.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Tempest getting a nice buff you may even see freash air tempest be a thing now.
    The fire line dmg nerf was kind of coming i images the dmg buff we got in this update on the non fire line water air even weaver will be nerfed in time. Anet is normalizing ele dmg that why i go on about the lack of effect to make up for that normalization. Anet dose not want ele as a class to be a main class they want to keep it a 2ed class. There no dev working on it and it messed up raids a lot.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Usagi.4835Usagi.4835 Member ✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    It really is simple. All that had to be done was to revert the nerfs from last year or otherwise split them between PvE (where numbers can be tweaked on NPCs) and PvP/WvW. Bear in mind, when that patch came out, they didn't do anything to compensate builds which revolved around and are meant to function in a DPS role. So it seemed to me that ele fell by the wayside as other classes and builds performed better. I'm still waiting for actual tradeoffs for holo (sustain, mobility, cc, damage) and for them to address damage on other classes.

    In folding the attunement cd traits into the GM minors, they've somewhat sneakily further shaved the ferocity numbers on Raging Storm and Aeromancer's Training. You get a paltry 3% increase to Swift Revenge, which is conditional. But you also lose the 10% damage increase while attuned to fire.

    And I really, really, really do not understand the new Burning Rage trait. Sorry but Sunspot sucks. It's absolute garbage. There are a bunch of these traits littered throughout ele traitlines that augment garbage effects that are utterly inconsequential in PvP/WvW. And now you have two condi traits competing for one another in the same column. Why? I liked the change to Overloads but you really have to scratch your head and wonder why they thought some of these changes were a good idea.

    @lLobo.7960 said:

    Make fireball, lava fount, and meteors apply burning. Make skill 3 copy burning from the target to 5 other foes. Staff need some more condi.
    Make arcane fury provide lesser arcane power on attunement swap (lesser arcane power: critical hit with your next 3 attacks, gain extra ferocity). This will not make fury easy to access, but will give the ele some nice burst for when swaping attunements and will have some cool interaction with arcane utility traits.

    In suggesting that Fireball, Lava Font and Meteor Shower apply burning, I'm leery of further nerfs to their damage to compensate for adding burning. Staff was fine and rewarding to play before the successive nerfs last year. Therein lies the solution.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Usagi.4835 said:
    It really is simple. All that had to be done was to revert the nerfs from last year or otherwise split them between PvE (where numbers can be tweaked on NPCs) and PvP/WvW. Bear in mind, when that patch came out, they didn't do anything to compensate builds which revolved around and are meant to function in a DPS role. So it seemed to me that ele fell by the wayside as other classes and builds performed better. I'm still waiting for actual tradeoffs for holo (sustain, mobility, cc, damage) and for them to address damage on other classes.

    In folding the attunement cd traits into the GM minors, they've somewhat sneakily further shaved the ferocity numbers on Raging Storm and Aeromancer's Training. You get a paltry 3% increase to Swift Revenge, which is conditional. But you also lose the 10% damage increase while attuned to fire.

    And I really, really, really do not understand the new Burning Rage trait. Sorry but Sunspot sucks. It's absolute garbage. There are a bunch of these traits littered throughout ele traitlines that augment garbage effects that are utterly inconsequential in PvP/WvW. And now you have two condi traits competing for one another in the same column. Why? I liked the change to Overloads but you really have to scratch your head and wonder why they thought some of these changes were a good idea.

    @lLobo.7960 said:

    Make fireball, lava fount, and meteors apply burning. Make skill 3 copy burning from the target to 5 other foes. Staff need some more condi.
    Make arcane fury provide lesser arcane power on attunement swap (lesser arcane power: critical hit with your next 3 attacks, gain extra ferocity). This will not make fury easy to access, but will give the ele some nice burst for when swaping attunements and will have some cool interaction with arcane utility traits.

    In suggesting that Fireball, Lava Font and Meteor Shower apply burning, I'm leery of further nerfs to their damage to compensate for adding burning. Staff was fine and rewarding to play before the successive nerfs last year. Therein lies the solution.

    Burning rage makes sunspot pretty strong in pve as well as any sword weaver build.

    I'm just waiting for burn weaver to be the next resident sleeper OP build in spvp. Almost all meta builds there got nerfed which was the main problem of weaver (and it got buffed on top of it).

    Just wait before you judge anything. 10% loss isnt end of the world, but the buffs and QoL are a huge improvement.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Usagi.4835 said:
    It really is simple. All that had to be done was to revert the nerfs from last year or otherwise split them between PvE (where numbers can be tweaked on NPCs) and PvP/WvW. Bear in mind, when that patch came out, they didn't do anything to compensate builds which revolved around and are meant to function in a DPS role. So it seemed to me that ele fell by the wayside as other classes and builds performed better. I'm still waiting for actual tradeoffs for holo (sustain, mobility, cc, damage) and for them to address damage on other classes.

    In folding the attunement cd traits into the GM minors, they've somewhat sneakily further shaved the ferocity numbers on Raging Storm and Aeromancer's Training. You get a paltry 3% increase to Swift Revenge, which is conditional. But you also lose the 10% damage increase while attuned to fire.

    And I really, really, really do not understand the new Burning Rage trait. Sorry but Sunspot sucks. It's absolute garbage. There are a bunch of these traits littered throughout ele traitlines that augment garbage effects that are utterly inconsequential in PvP/WvW. And now you have two condi traits competing for one another in the same column. Why? I liked the change to Overloads but you really have to scratch your head and wonder why they thought some of these changes were a good idea.

    @lLobo.7960 said:

    Make fireball, lava fount, and meteors apply burning. Make skill 3 copy burning from the target to 5 other foes. Staff need some more condi.
    Make arcane fury provide lesser arcane power on attunement swap (lesser arcane power: critical hit with your next 3 attacks, gain extra ferocity). This will not make fury easy to access, but will give the ele some nice burst for when swaping attunements and will have some cool interaction with arcane utility traits.

    In suggesting that Fireball, Lava Font and Meteor Shower apply burning, I'm leery of further nerfs to their damage to compensate for adding burning. Staff was fine and rewarding to play before the successive nerfs last year. Therein lies the solution.

    Burning rage makes sunspot pretty strong in pve as well as any sword weaver build.

    I'm just waiting for burn weaver to be the next resident sleeper OP build in spvp. Almost all meta builds there got nerfed which was the main problem of weaver (and it got buffed on top of it).

    Just wait before you judge anything. 10% loss isnt end of the world, but the buffs and QoL are a huge improvement.

    Wouldn't be surprised if condi ele benchmarks got a significant bump in this patch in PvE. It's probably the ele build that gets buffed the most in this patch. Burning rage may end up being better than power overwhelming (this trait should get replaced as soon as possible btw). Burning precision extra burning will also give a bit of extra damage. The primordial stance buff will be also be very nice. Last but not least, condi ele builds will now get the 20% fire skill CD reduction for free, which is huge.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Usagi.4835 said:
    It really is simple. All that had to be done was to revert the nerfs from last year or otherwise split them between PvE (where numbers can be tweaked on NPCs) and PvP/WvW. Bear in mind, when that patch came out, they didn't do anything to compensate builds which revolved around and are meant to function in a DPS role. So it seemed to me that ele fell by the wayside as other classes and builds performed better. I'm still waiting for actual tradeoffs for holo (sustain, mobility, cc, damage) and for them to address damage on other classes.

    In folding the attunement cd traits into the GM minors, they've somewhat sneakily further shaved the ferocity numbers on Raging Storm and Aeromancer's Training. You get a paltry 3% increase to Swift Revenge, which is conditional. But you also lose the 10% damage increase while attuned to fire.

    And I really, really, really do not understand the new Burning Rage trait. Sorry but Sunspot sucks. It's absolute garbage. There are a bunch of these traits littered throughout ele traitlines that augment garbage effects that are utterly inconsequential in PvP/WvW. And now you have two condi traits competing for one another in the same column. Why? I liked the change to Overloads but you really have to scratch your head and wonder why they thought some of these changes were a good idea.

    @lLobo.7960 said:

    Make fireball, lava fount, and meteors apply burning. Make skill 3 copy burning from the target to 5 other foes. Staff need some more condi.
    Make arcane fury provide lesser arcane power on attunement swap (lesser arcane power: critical hit with your next 3 attacks, gain extra ferocity). This will not make fury easy to access, but will give the ele some nice burst for when swaping attunements and will have some cool interaction with arcane utility traits.

    In suggesting that Fireball, Lava Font and Meteor Shower apply burning, I'm leery of further nerfs to their damage to compensate for adding burning. Staff was fine and rewarding to play before the successive nerfs last year. Therein lies the solution.

    Burning rage makes sunspot pretty strong in pve as well as any sword weaver build.

    I'm just waiting for burn weaver to be the next resident sleeper OP build in spvp. Almost all meta builds there got nerfed which was the main problem of weaver (and it got buffed on top of it).

    Just wait before you judge anything. 10% loss isnt end of the world, but the buffs and QoL are a huge improvement.

    Wouldn't be surprised if condi ele benchmarks got a significant bump in this patch in PvE. It's probably the ele build that gets buffed the most in this patch. Burning rage may end up being better than power overwhelming (this trait should get replaced as soon as possible btw). Burning precision extra burning will also give a bit of extra damage. The primordial stance buff will be also be very nice. Last but not least, condi ele builds will now get the 20% fire skill CD reduction for free, which is huge.

    Exactly. Burning rage gives 180 condi in fire (on top of extra burns) while power overwhelming gave around 200-250 with vipers iirc (while sacrificing cooldowns).

    Combine that with earth skill cooldown reduction (condi conversion trait in earth used to compete with cdr, now you can have both) as well as primordial stance and burning precision buffs and you get a very strong condi build for pve.

    In fact, I think that even core ele can have options now because arcane can also bring some burns, bleeds (and immobs which turn into bleeds), but probably not something raid worthy. Grieving fire+FA sword/dagger build with flame legion (or maybe balt/berserker) runes also looks very competitive.

    Deso's favorite FROG
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    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
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  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @lLobo.7960 said:

    @Ganathar.4956 said:
    I think sword will be fine. However, staff got another needless nerf and it's probably a completely trash weapon now. Way to enforce the scourge and herald meta in WvW even harder. There needs to be a fire master trait that is focused on power, because having two condi traits makes no sense. Also, staff finally needs to be seriously looked at by the balance devs. It's the slowest weapon in the game for mediocre damage and some okay CC. It's not good enough. Also, I feel the need to point out that arcane fury needs to return now. The reason why it was changed to might is because speccing air gave lots of fury from raging storm. Now you can choose not to take the fury since it's a major trait, so there is no reason for the arcane adept minor to give 1 stack of might anymore. Change it back to fury.

    Apart from that the changes are not that bad and the direction they want to go in is nice, but the glaring oversights soured what otherwise would have been a good patch.

    Make fireball, lava fount, and meteors apply burning. Make skill 3 copy burning from the target to 5 other foes. Staff need some more condi.
    Make arcane fury provide lesser arcane power on attunement swap (lesser arcane power: critical hit with your next 3 attacks, gain extra ferocity). This will not make fury easy to access, but will give the ele some nice burst for when swaping attunements and will have some cool interaction with arcane utility traits.

    I don't agree that staff needs more condi. It's fine if it stays as a power weapon. However, it does need quite a few changes. They need to replace power overwhelming with an actual power trait instead of having two master condi traits. They also need to make staff earth and air much stronger than they currently are. Staff got decimated because it has an over-reliance on its fire skills and traits that affect those skills specifically. They really need to do something in the very next patch because I do not see damage ele having any place in WvW zergs anymore, and it's not like support tempest is solid enough competition either right now. Instead of making the WvW meta more diverse, they ended up making it less so, even though this patch had pretty good ele changes in general.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If they are going to make tempest trigger swap effect for overloads it would be nice if they use all the swap atument effects would be fun. Maybe making overload into a dubble atument type effect.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hey all - the Elementalist notes were missing an entry from the initial posting:

    • Power Overwhelming: This trait has been reworked. It now grants 150 bonus power while the elementalist has at least 10 stacks of might. This power bonus is doubled while attuned to fire.

    Sorry about that - it was a change made early, but with the note coming in a bit late. That should be all the notes.

    New update to the notes that a bit confusing its a power dmg effect that dose condi dmg staff realy will need more condi base dmg attk or ways to add burning bleed maybe even torment to make these things work out.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭

    Instead of 10% more damage, it will be 300 Power in fire and 150 out of fire; a huge buff if the bonus could be kept up.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Gg bois, pve benchmarks are ours yet again. Staff weaver in wvw will also appreciate this a lot.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
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    Froggo himself

  • Dahir.4158Dahir.4158 Member ✭✭✭

    I will not cut myself anymore. Thank you.

    Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect

  • LazySummer.2568LazySummer.2568 Member ✭✭✭

    ok with that make up notes on Power Overwhelming, I think ele will actually be really good after the patch (since it basically got straight up buffed in all 3 game modes) and this is probably the first patch since PoF came out where I have to double check what I'm saying because the past history of ele's with this balance team were not good.

    hopefully it doesn't become braindead OP and gets nuked into being useless again (especially in spvp, which seem like it may become OP)

  • solemn.9608solemn.9608 Member ✭✭

    Ok I need someone to help me know for certain because I’m not great with this sort of stuff - which is really better ? 10% damage or 300 power? How much % equivalent would 300 power be, roughly? Is 10% on top of all the other % stacking effects more than the relative increase by power increase?

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @solemn.9608 said:
    Ok I need someone to help me know for certain because I’m not great with this sort of stuff - which is really better ? 10% damage or 300 power? How much % equivalent would 300 power be, roughly? Is 10% on top of all the other % stacking effects more than the relative increase by power increase?

    In most changes I have seen, Anet has been equating 10% damage to 240 power. So 24 power is around 1% damage.

  • Hate the air changes now you forced to take raging storm

  • LazySummer.2568LazySummer.2568 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @solemn.9608 said:
    Ok I need someone to help me know for certain because I’m not great with this sort of stuff - which is really better ? 10% damage or 300 power? How much % equivalent would 300 power be, roughly? Is 10% on top of all the other % stacking effects more than the relative increase by power increase?

    if you're in full berserk ascended gear + scholar rune + standard fire/air/weaver line & attuned to fire as main hand, your power is 2827 without +power infusions & food (3017 with) and it seems like +300 power is roughly 10% of that while +150 is 5%, so I guess before patch it's flat +10% but only in fire attunement whereas now you can either have +5% or +10% but you need at least 10 might, which isn't an issue in pve but maybe in wvw if you're talking about buffs coming from only yourself. Kind of sucks now that you have to camp fire and spam some filler skills a little to get 10 might from Pyromancer's Puissance before casting your MS if you want full dmg bonus for example, but maybe the qol cd reductions and and swift revenge buff makes up for it.

    The 10% on top of other % stacking effects shouldn't matter as long as they all work the same way (i.e. all multiplicative or all additive)

  • len.7809len.7809 Member ✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    Its a big buff to core s/f fresh air roamer tho, since fresh air roamer doesn't need fire trait , so fire doesn't affect it.

    Flow like Water: This new trait takes the slot previously occupied by Aquamancer's Training and increases damage dealt by 10% while the elementalist is above 75% health. Additionally, it heals the elementalist when they block or evade an attack. The healing effect has a 10-second cooldown.
    Piercing Shards: This trait now grants half its 20% bonus damage to vulnerable foes when not attuned to water. The full bonus damage is still applied while attuned to water.
    Aeromancer's Training: This trait has been moved to the grandmaster minor slot, and its functionality has changed. It now reduces recharge on air weapon skills by 20% and grants 150 ferocity. The ferocity bonus is doubled while attuned to air.
    Raging Storm: This trait has been moved to the master tier as a major trait, and it has a new icon. The ferocity bonus granted by this trait has been reduced from 240 to 180.

    So, let me explain.

    • Flow like Water basically improves old aquamancer training, and gives it heal on evade / block with 10s cooldown. That buffed ele's survival and damage when hp is under 90%.
      Before, scholar runes and aquamancer training requiers 90% hp to gain 10+10% damage modifier. Now, you still have 10% damage modifier after 90% hp.

    • Piercing Shards: Thats one of the best changes. So, elementalist still have 10% extra damage to vulnerable foes not in water. Take notes!

    • Aeromancer's Training: gives 300 ferocity, 180 before.

    • Raging Storm: basically, this trait can be replaced now by Stormsoul which increases stun duration and increases 10% damage to disabled foes.

    10 to 20% from Piercing Shards, 10 to 20% from runes and Flow Like Water, 10% from Stormsoul, total of 30 to 50% damage modifier.
    Before patch, you wont have damage modifier from piercing shards when not in water, 10% from Stormsoul by sacrificing aeromancer training.
    Now, you can get all those modifier without being in water n sacrificing ferocity from aeromancer. Thats a big buff to s/f to me.

    Sadly, i just posted a thread about Elementalist in wvw blobing days ago, and anet nerfed fire staff ...

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭

    At the 3000 Power mark with no food/utility or Might, the 300 Power will come on par with the 10% damage modifier, but we shouldn't forget that 90 Ferocity (Raging Storm is now 180, so minus 60 from 150 of Aeromancer's Training) and 3% from Swift Revenge will somehow try to stand on the side of the new change, which means it's higher damage. The change will be a slight buff to the damage for every single attunement, all combined it means something; it will mostly shine in PvE.

    If an Ele has 4000 Power, which favors the 10% over 300 Power, then it would be 4400...
    vs the augmented Power that is 4300.

    • If in Fire then 4300 * 1.03 (New swift revenge) * 1.06 (90 ferocity buff globally) is ~4700, which is higher than 4400
    • If in Air then 4150 * 1.03 * 1.04 (60 Ferocity; old Raging Storm and Aero were 420 in Air, now it's 480) is ~4450, higher than 4000 (the trait was only functional in Fire)

    If my Ferocity calculations are correct then it's great for DPS Ele.

    An overall buff for WvW/PvP and great for PvE given the Primordial Stance and Burning Precision buffs.

    Weaver will probably contest in PvP meta now - would be below SpB - don't know about Holo or new Thief buffs. It might be broken though, which is a bit scary for the class to get hardly nerfed again.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • That is comforting, thanks for making it more clear - been working so haven't had much time yet to process these changes. I will have to try out staff weaver next week and see if its any different - from what you guys have said I'm expecting my damage to be close to what it was before.

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  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @len.7809 said:
    Its a big buff to core s/f fresh air roamer tho, since fresh air roamer doesn't need fire trait , so fire doesn't affect it.

    Flow like Water: This new trait takes the slot previously occupied by Aquamancer's Training and increases damage dealt by 10% while the elementalist is above 75% health. Additionally, it heals the elementalist when they block or evade an attack. The healing effect has a 10-second cooldown.
    Piercing Shards: This trait now grants half its 20% bonus damage to vulnerable foes when not attuned to water. The full bonus damage is still applied while attuned to water.
    Aeromancer's Training: This trait has been moved to the grandmaster minor slot, and its functionality has changed. It now reduces recharge on air weapon skills by 20% and grants 150 ferocity. The ferocity bonus is doubled while attuned to air.
    Raging Storm: This trait has been moved to the master tier as a major trait, and it has a new icon. The ferocity bonus granted by this trait has been reduced from 240 to 180.

    So, let me explain.

    • Flow like Water basically improves old aquamancer training, and gives it heal on evade / block with 10s cooldown. That buffed ele's survival and damage when hp is under 90%.
      Before, scholar runes and aquamancer training requiers 90% hp to gain 10+10% damage modifier. Now, you still have 10% damage modifier after 90% hp.

    • Piercing Shards: Thats one of the best changes. So, elementalist still have 10% extra damage to vulnerable foes not in water. Take notes!

    • Aeromancer's Training: gives 300 ferocity, 180 before.

    • Raging Storm: basically, this trait can be replaced now by Stormsoul which increases stun duration and increases 10% damage to disabled foes.

    10 to 20% from Piercing Shards, 10 to 20% from runes and Flow Like Water, 10% from Stormsoul, total of 30 to 50% damage modifier.
    Before patch, you wont have damage modifier from piercing shards when not in water, 10% from Stormsoul by sacrificing aeromancer training.
    Now, you can get all those modifier without being in water n sacrificing ferocity from aeromancer. Thats a big buff to s/f to me.

    Sadly, i just posted a thread about Elementalist in wvw blobing days ago, and anet nerfed fire staff ...

    On one side I really like prot, swiftness, immob and block from arcane, but free 20% dmg from water seems pretty juicy as well... Fire/earth dual on scepter also has vuln and high damage so it can be a very strong opener followed by beam and air stuff.

    This patch opens a lot of different builds actually.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
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  • Lol, as a power staff tempest, seems weird that I'm the one getting the nerf. Especially since fire and bunker weavers were the only ele builds that were occasionally complained about, yet those got buffed. Then again, maybe its only in pvp that power staff tempest underperforms. Haven't done much wvw....

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thepolishman.2348 said:
    Lol, as a power staff tempest, seems weird that I'm the one getting the nerf. Especially since fire and bunker weavers were the only ele builds that were occasionally complained about, yet those got buffed. Then again, maybe its only in pvp that power staff tempest underperforms. Haven't done much wvw....

    Power staff tempest wasnt a thing since mid HoT. It's still decent in open world pve, but it's far from being a competitive build anywhere else.

    Pve tempest as dps is mostly useful with FA builds or fully focused on burns+might stacking, in both situations with warhorn. Outside of those it's used as healer. Dps tempest was never a thing in pvp and wvw, even core ele outscales it by a lot.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

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