Why the range increase to Infil Sig and not Swipe?

To me this is a change that is more or less pointless. Buffing the range on a skill that is not used in any build in PvP since shadowstep exists. Most thieves would and do take shadowstep over signet for the condi clear. Just add 300 range to swipe. If I am not seeing something that makes this change a better option than shadowstep please enlighten me.

Cuz infiltrator sig is used in far more builds than swipe... oh wait!

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Cuz infiltrator sig is used in far more builds than swipe... oh wait!

It's good for underwater builds, but no water fights in spvp.

Swipe is just underwhelming. Any of the thief weapon shadow steps have 900 range. So swipe is worse than the weapon skills range and staff doesn't have a shadoestep to quickly reach a target. It doesn't even have a block or missile protection to protect yourself while walking to a target instead.

@"omgdracula.6345" said:To me this is a change that is more or less pointless. Buffing the range on a skill that is not used in any build in PvP since shadowstep exists. Most thieves would and do take shadowstep over signet for the condi clear. Just add 300 range to swipe. If I am not seeing something that makes this change a better option than shadowstep please enlighten me.

Infiltrator's Signet is not an uncommon choice for all S/D builds and even in D/P, no matter how pointless that change is (which I agree with you that it is) it is still a "buff" (Big " ") so why not.

But I have to agree that the biggest potential use for it would be in Staff builds, but all Thief builds that are semi-viable are completely locked to Signet of Agility and Shadowstep + either Roll for Initiative or Bandit's defense (or Blinding powder for those wishing to revive D/P), so noone is gonna take that for Staff builds, probably not even people wishing to play D/P DrD.

To me this seems like Anet's way of addressing all the complaints over the swipe range nerf, now the trade-off for running Daredevil is having to use a garbage signet to get back your old 1200 range, lol.

Seriously though 1 ini every 10 seconds is terrible, that's like 1 heart-seeker every half-minute, I think I'd rather have the passive healing power from guardian's signet. :/

But having to run a signet, because the default class mechanic of gap closing is trash on dd isn't what I consider balance. Just give swipe a 900 range. It just seems silly that your sword teleport for example is better than your class teleport

@"Crystal Black.8190" said:Swipe is just underwhelming. Any of the thief weapon shadow steps have 900 range. So swipe is worse than the weapon skills range and staff doesn't have a shadoestep to quickly reach a target. It doesn't even have a block or missile protection to protect yourself while walking to a target instead.

1. Changed swipe isn't supposed to be a mobility skill for the most part, dd is pretty mobile already. When they said they made that change with DD being more of a melee brawler (iirc?) spec in mind, it sounded a bit backwards because how would -pretty much- removing additional gap closer make the spec more melee oriented? Well, stay in range, that's what brawlers do. Swipe is still useful to proc your steal traits. People say they'd like it changed altogether -actually me too. But what exactly would you want it change to? A weak smack over the head? It would still be used mostly for trait proccing, now you just have 600 range buffor.
2. Staff or not, weapon swap exists and as you said, the weapons already offer high mobility
3. Yes, it doesn't have a block or missile protection, but you crap with evades left and right, so who cares.
4. If you're planning to "walk up to the target", then I'm not sure what to tell you. Maybe that you still don't need to walk.

Overally I wasn't a fan of that change too, why would I be. But I don't think it's as hard to adapt to as some of the people try to make it. Also opening with steal, while situational, is mostly suboptimal anyways imo.

(btw, I'm not trying to argue for the usefulness of the signet change, it's still garbo and imo not worth the slot :p )

Infiltrators is about the only closer the d/d set has albeit the number in that set is limited.

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Crystal Black.8190" said:Swipe is just underwhelming. Any of the thief weapon shadow steps have 900 range. So swipe is worse than the weapon skills range and staff doesn't have a shadoestep to quickly reach a target. It doesn't even have a block or missile protection to protect yourself while walking to a target instead.

1. Changed swipe isn't supposed to be a mobility skill for the most part, dd is pretty mobile already. When they said they made that change with DD being more of a melee brawler (iirc?) spec in mind, it sounded a bit backwards because how would -pretty much- removing additional gap closer make the spec more melee oriented? Well, stay in range, that's what brawlers do. Swipe is still useful to proc your steal traits. People say they'd like it changed altogether -actually me too. But what exactly would you want it change to? A weak smack over the head? It would still be used mostly for trait proccing, now you just have 600 range buffor.
2. Staff or not, weapon swap exists and as you said, the weapons already offer high mobility
3. Yes, it doesn't have a block or missile protection, but you kitten with evades left and right, so who cares.
4. If you're planning to "walk up to the target", then I'm not sure what to tell you. Maybe that you still don't need to walk.

I say just give it new more brawly stolen skills. So it actually feels like a different mechanic (as mark does on DE) rather than just a nerfed steal

Yeap, every drd stolen skill should have a 1200 port to target along the other effects and we have balance...

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Crystal Black.8190" said:Swipe is just underwhelming. Any of the thief weapon shadow steps have 900 range. So swipe is worse than the weapon skills range and staff doesn't have a shadoestep to quickly reach a target. It doesn't even have a block or missile protection to protect yourself while walking to a target instead.

1. Changed swipe isn't supposed to be a mobility skill for the most part, dd is pretty mobile already. When they said they made that change with DD being more of a melee brawler (iirc?) spec in mind, it sounded a bit backwards because how would -pretty much- removing additional gap closer make the spec more melee oriented? Well, stay in range, that's what brawlers do. Swipe is still useful to proc your steal traits. People say they'd like it changed altogether -actually me too. But what exactly would you want it change to? A weak smack over the head? It would still be used mostly for trait proccing, now you just have 600 range buffor.
2. Staff or not, weapon swap exists and as you said, the weapons already offer high mobility
3. Yes, it doesn't have a block or missile protection, but you kitten with evades left and right, so who cares.
4. If you're planning to "walk up to the target", then I'm not sure what to tell you. Maybe that you still don't need to walk.

Problem here is that thief doesn't have anything in their class that lets them stay in a fight for too long. A Daredevil will get murdered if it stays in a fight for too long. Alm other classes can out heal you, out cc you, capable of using all of their skills with impunity. And have a much more functional kit overall.

Because Daredevil was supposed to be changed to be more melee focused, of course:

From April 23rd patch:

With this update, we are adding a trade-off to the profession skill that keeps the theme of a melee-oriented specialization.

Inf sig buff can be a long range buff to daredevil, but it's on a long cooldown and isn't specific to that elite.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

@"Dahkeus.8243" said:Because Daredevil was supposed to be changed to be more melee focused, of course:

From April 23rd patch:

With this update, we are adding a trade-off to the profession skill that keeps the theme of a melee-oriented specialization.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74356/game-update-notes-april-23-2019

Inf sig buff can be a long range buff to daredevil, but it's on a long cooldown and isn't specific to that elite.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

It can be but it won't be. No thief would take this over shadowstep. Being able to cleanse 3 condis is so massively needed for thief that exchanging that for some more ini isnt a good tradeoff IMHO.

@omgdracula.6345 said:

@"Dahkeus.8243" said:Because Daredevil was supposed to be changed to be more melee focused, of course:

From April 23rd patch:

With this update, we are adding a trade-off to the profession skill that keeps the theme of a melee-oriented specialization.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74356/game-update-notes-april-23-2019

Inf sig buff

can

be a long range buff to daredevil, but it's on a long cooldown and isn't specific to that elite.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

Yea, I agree that's likely to be the case. I mean, ini sig isn't that bad for certain builds and has been meta in the past, but it'll be a hard sell, particularly if any of the new preparations end up being worth consideration for one of the utility slots.

@Ustaf.2953 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Crystal Black.8190" said:Swipe is just underwhelming. Any of the thief weapon shadow steps have 900 range. So swipe is worse than the weapon skills range and staff doesn't have a shadoestep to quickly reach a target. It doesn't even have a block or missile protection to protect yourself while walking to a target instead.

1. Changed swipe isn't supposed to be a mobility skill for the most part, dd is pretty mobile already. When they said they made that change with DD being more of a melee brawler (iirc?) spec in mind, it sounded a bit backwards because how would -pretty much- removing additional gap closer make the spec more melee oriented? Well, stay in range, that's what brawlers do. Swipe is still useful to proc your steal traits. People say they'd like it changed altogether -actually me too. But what exactly would you want it change to? A weak smack over the head? It would still be used mostly for trait proccing, now you just have 600 range buffor.
2. Staff or not, weapon swap exists and as you said, the weapons already offer high mobility
3. Yes, it doesn't have a block or missile protection, but you kitten with evades left and right, so who cares.
4. If you're planning to "walk up to the target", then I'm not sure what to tell you. Maybe that you still don't need to walk.

Ok, I agree that part could get impovements.

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Crystal Black.8190" said:Swipe is just underwhelming. Any of the thief weapon shadow steps have 900 range. So swipe is worse than the weapon skills range and staff doesn't have a shadoestep to quickly reach a target. It doesn't even have a block or missile protection to protect yourself while walking to a target instead.

1. Changed swipe isn't supposed to be a mobility skill for the most part, dd is pretty mobile already. When they said they made that change with DD being more of a melee brawler (iirc?) spec in mind, it sounded a bit backwards because how would -pretty much- removing additional gap closer make the spec more melee oriented? Well, stay in range, that's what brawlers do. Swipe is still useful to proc your steal traits. People say they'd like it changed altogether -actually me too. But what exactly would you want it change to? A weak smack over the head? It would still be used mostly for trait proccing, now you just have 600 range buffor.
2. Staff or not, weapon swap exists and as you said, the weapons already offer high mobility
3. Yes, it doesn't have a block or missile protection, but you kitten with evades left and right, so who cares.
4. If you're planning to "walk up to the target", then I'm not sure what to tell you. Maybe that you still don't need to walk.

Are you sure that's not because you try to pick it for the reasons anet doesn't want it to be picked for? So pretty much just for the 3rd dodge+"dodge ability" while building and playing it like a core thief? DD seems to have enough survivability imo.

@Ustaf.2953 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Crystal Black.8190" said:Swipe is just underwhelming. Any of the thief weapon shadow steps have 900 range. So swipe is worse than the weapon skills range and staff doesn't have a shadoestep to quickly reach a target. It doesn't even have a block or missile protection to protect yourself while walking to a target instead.

1. Changed swipe isn't supposed to be a mobility skill for the most part, dd is pretty mobile already. When they said they made that change with DD being more of a melee brawler (iirc?) spec in mind, it sounded a bit backwards because how would -pretty much- removing additional gap closer make the spec more melee oriented? Well, stay in range, that's what brawlers do. Swipe is still useful to proc your steal traits. People say they'd like it changed altogether -actually me too. But what exactly would you want it change to? A weak smack over the head? It would still be used mostly for trait proccing, now you just have 600 range buffor.
2. Staff or not, weapon swap exists and as you said, the weapons already offer high mobility
3. Yes, it doesn't have a block or missile protection, but you kitten with evades left and right, so who cares.
4. If you're planning to "walk up to the target", then I'm not sure what to tell you. Maybe that you still don't need to walk.

As a non thief player I always thought it’d be cool if they embraced the monk think, and just made the daredevil steals to be different “follow up attacks” based on the opening you make with the F1.

IE F1 is always 900 range unblockable but could chain into like a knock down, or a bunch of bleed etc.

Giving DD some unique stolen skills that help to survive in the midst of battle sounds like a good idea.

@Crystal Black.8190 said:Giving DD some unique stolen skills that help to survive in the midst of battle sounds like a good idea.

This was one of the biggest asks when the patch took place. But I guess reworking traps solves way more issues tbh

It's very clear that ANET doesn't wan't DrD to have a large instant gap-closer by default. It seems that is meant to stay on melee while you're already fighting, not burst in from range. Asking for it's range to increase again seems contrary to what their intentions regarding the change seem to be.

@Turk.5460 said:It's very clear that ANET doesn't wan't DrD to have a large instant gap-closer by default. It seems that is meant to stay on melee while you're already fighting, not burst in from range. Asking for it's range to increase again seems contrary to what their intentions regarding the change seem to be.

D/P has a 900 range so it DrD already does regardless. Shadowstep if you want can be used as a gap closer too.

@omgdracula.6345 said:

@"Turk.5460" said:It's very clear that ANET doesn't wan't DrD to have a large instant gap-closer by default. It seems that is meant to stay on melee while you're already fighting, not burst in from range. Asking for it's range to increase again seems contrary to what their intentions regarding the change seem to be.

"by default".

Also if you understand that you have gapclosers included in your weaponset and utility skills, then what are you even complaining about?

@Sobx.1758 said:

@omgdracula.6345 said:

@"Turk.5460" said:It's very clear that ANET doesn't wan't DrD to have a large instant gap-closer by default. It seems that is meant to stay on melee while you're already fighting, not burst in from range. Asking for it's range to increase again seems contrary to what their intentions regarding the change seem to be.

Lazy development. Especially changing something after so many years. Just like when they changed how heartseeker functioned with the camera and removed skillful play.

How development should have happened:

Okay we want to make DrD melee oriented how can we accomplish that goal?

Answer: Make the change to swipe, and rework the stolen skills into new skills that help the DrD succeed like we did with deadeye's mark

What actually happened: Nerf range on swipe and ripped D/P DrD out of the meta.

You can't say we don't want DrD to have a built in gap closer when both meta builds have them built into their weapon sets.

like i said if this is the way anet want dd to stay then at least give it something else other than a unblockable effect..maybe add a daze if you steal from front and stun if from behind idk but it really needs to be better than what we have now.

The name on the title was pretty much exactly what I was thinking.

I'm glad they did something with Traps, but I'm disappointed they ignored the one key thing a lot of DrD mains were literally screaming about in forums for literal months.

Based on the new Life Siphon effects in Shadow Arts, it looks like they want D/P Thieves to be picking up Shadow Arts instead.