Upcoming Engineer Balance Changes - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Upcoming Engineer Balance Changes

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  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Ivantreil.3092 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    As a main condi holo, this balance patch will be particularly bitter to swallow. I cant for the life of me understand why they'd prevent us from using Toolbelt, when it's essentially our way to bridge cooldowns on a class that cannot switch to another weapon, and has very ineffective kits. Change Grenade kit to a normal projectile skill instead of a ground target skill if you're going to ruin rotations like that... What are holos supposed to use for 20 seconds during overheat once all their weapon skills hit cooldown ?

    Guess it's time to devolve to the core version? Yikes

    Perish the thought. It would be a sad outcome, Holo has a few rather good Burn skills that supplement core condi really well. I'd hate to leave behind a spec I grew to love, but I will if it comes to that, as I'm sure many others will.

    What condi Holo Build are you running that makes you overheat 100% of the time?

    I would think you'd want to avoid overheating at ALL TIMES unless you were trying to go all in for a win....?

    Personally, the changes are interesting. I can't speak to how bad or good they are until I test it. I have learned to manage my heat when using Holo now so the overheat change doesn't bother me (and I use ECSU trait as well). The Scrapper change makes me think there will be only one major way of playing bunker Scrapper if they do not allow condi damage to tick up the Barrier count.

    I'm taking the wait and see approach.

    Meta condi builds run solar focusing lens and photonic blasting module.

    For PvE or PvP? Also I guess you could use your toolbelt skills BEFORE overloading then? In that case you may discover a bug that resets all your toobelt skills after the overload clears hehehehehe.

    PvE. Condi engi isn't particularly viable in PvP.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    • Hip shot nerf is beyond comprehension. It was the only skill on rifle that tracked targets, and almost all other classes get skills that track. Now, people will be able to strafe left and right and avoid rifle even more.

    This bug fix is fine. What "almost all other classes" have auto attack fast moving projectiles that track? Also it pierces and is the highest damage Rifle auto attack out of the 3 Rifle users. Your outrage at this is beyond comprehension.

    1. It wasn't a bug.
    2. It was an autoattack. None of our 2-5 skills had tracking.
    3. It has significantly less range and doesn't travel as fast as longbow arrows. The damage isn't out of this world -- it's plinking damage.

    Yes, it was an autoattack, which is why I specifically mentioned auto attack in my reply. Are you aware that almost zero (if not actually zero) other professions have 1-5 projectile skills that track?

    It certainly says it was a bug in the patch notes, and I'm far more inclined to believe the game developers over a typical player in that regard. You can have the bug back as soon as they give the same bug to Warriors and Deadeyes, okay?

    1. Actually, they do. The difference is in how they track. I was bored so I messed around with some golems in the PvP lobby. Longbow arrows fly farther and faster than rifle projectiles do, and they can be way off-target and still count as a hit. Rifle projectiles don't get that luxury, but it seemed like engineer rifle had less forgiveness compared to warrior rifle. I didn't bother with deadeye rifle, so I leave that decision to you.

    Actually no, they don't. Engi rifle only has 1 skill that can compare to the 1 thru 5 skills of Warrior and DE Rifle and that's the auto attack (I believe Overcharged Shot projectile speed is much faster) - which makes the engi the one that has a far more forgiving skill because, before the upcoming patch, it tracks. Ranger longbow arrows fire faster. Warrior and DH do not. Further? Yes, but nobody was disputing that. Contrary to your claim, rifle shots are actually more reliable in terms of hitting strafing targets than Warrior and DH longbow.

    1. Yes, but they also called the net shot firing backwards a bug. Not long ago they said it was supposed to fire backwards. I'm not sure I trust their track record on "bugs"

    Sure, net shot release notes have been contradictory. But it is not comparable to Hip Shot, as no other rifle attacks worked like that, and they have no previous notes regarding this. I am discussing Hip Shot, not Net Shot

    1. So your method of balance is "If I can't have it, nobody can?" Strange policy, but you do you.

    What is your reasoning that one auto attack should have this, while the other two cannot? I guarantee it's not anything better than my request for uniform mechanics.

    Congratulations, you've won an internet! I'm not sure what you're arguing with me about, or why it's such a big deal to you. So I'm just going to leave this here.

    It's unfortunate that you don't seem to be able to admit you are wrong when proven so, and you resort to abandoning the conversation in such a manner. Please avoid such hostile reactions when the person you are talking to is not being hostile.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Says they want to improve the use of function gyro...

    ... Puts the new function gyro traits on the same tier as the superspeed from all gyros trait.

    B)

  • Dirame.8521Dirame.8521 Member ✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @subversiontwo.7501 said:
    Says they want to improve the use of function gyro...

    ... Puts the new function gyro traits on the same tier as the superspeed from all gyros trait.

    B)

    minor traits are always on wise guy. :P

  • @Dirame.8521 said:
    In PvE, I can understand that but in PvP, that change shouldn't be a problem. Regardless of whether this change was there or not, the last thing you want to do is overload because Shockwave is on such a short cooldown that it is beneficial for you NOT to overload.

    It is a direct and massive nerf across all game modes. It is a problem. Period. It guts PVE holosmith and it makes PVP/WvW holosmith much more dangerous to use, and there is no reason to institute such a change. Holosmiths with their toolbelt skills aren't overpowered at all.

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    The lightning field when combined with leap skills cause daze. At the right time, at the right moment in a PvP match YES, a .25s daze can make a difference. Trust me, you should see some of the clutch moments I have had the pleasure of recording, it is incredible how close some moments are.

    Why do you do this? You see that I already explained how the lightning field works multiple times in the same post, so why go on? Did you actually read the post, or are you just being contentious? As for the 0.25 seconds making a difference... I don't believe you. Period. I think you're lying just to be difficult.

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    This may actually prove to be the strongest trait especially against burst classes. Especially if backstab D/P thieves come back. Being able to react and heal or even block damage because it takes a 2 second delay to ALL hit you?... come on man. Why are you hating on everything?

    This does nothing against burst classes. Scrapper's lost 3000 health, effectively making them a low tier HP class. Getting 20% of your health back via delayed damage doesn't compensate for the health lost. A good burst will completely blow past this trait like it doesn't even exist. Likewise, a good burst will make sure you're completely disabled, so you'll be stunned for the 2 seconds it takes for the damage to tick. There are already much better traits in other lines that actually help you deal with burst, but they do it in a way that provides statistical advantage.

    There's an expression: don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. This trait reeks of urine.

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    Why do you seem to be intentionally difficult? Sure you can maintain all 3 if you really wanted to. Combine all the leap finishers/blast finishers and you technically have near infinite superspeed then just take 1 trait in tools with a kit and you definitely have infinite swiftness and take one trait in Firearms and you got near infinite stab. GG

    If you're building for damage, you must take Applied Force, Mass Momentum, and Objects in Motion. If you do this, you have no way to stack consistently stack super speed, stability, or even swiftness. You get Rocket Charge, which is a DPS loss under quickness. That's it. So... 3 seconds of super speed. This is a DPS trait that only works if you don't take the other DPS traits, and build yourself stupid just to force Objects in Motion to function.


    Look, man, if you don't know what's going on, don't be reluctant to not say something. Criticism and debate only works if it is sincere, well thought out, and addresses the actual points made. Otherwise, it is just a nuisance.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Ivantreil.3092 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    As a main condi holo, this balance patch will be particularly bitter to swallow. I cant for the life of me understand why they'd prevent us from using Toolbelt, when it's essentially our way to bridge cooldowns on a class that cannot switch to another weapon, and has very ineffective kits. Change Grenade kit to a normal projectile skill instead of a ground target skill if you're going to ruin rotations like that... What are holos supposed to use for 20 seconds during overheat once all their weapon skills hit cooldown ?

    Guess it's time to devolve to the core version? Yikes

    Perish the thought. It would be a sad outcome, Holo has a few rather good Burn skills that supplement core condi really well. I'd hate to leave behind a spec I grew to love, but I will if it comes to that, as I'm sure many others will.

    What condi Holo Build are you running that makes you overheat 100% of the time?

    I would think you'd want to avoid overheating at ALL TIMES unless you were trying to go all in for a win....?

    Personally, the changes are interesting. I can't speak to how bad or good they are until I test it. I have learned to manage my heat when using Holo now so the overheat change doesn't bother me (and I use ECSU trait as well). The Scrapper change makes me think there will be only one major way of playing bunker Scrapper if they do not allow condi damage to tick up the Barrier count.

    I'm taking the wait and see approach.

    Meta condi builds run solar focusing lens and photonic blasting module.

    For PvE or PvP? Also I guess you could use your toolbelt skills BEFORE overloading then? In that case you may discover a bug that resets all your toobelt skills after the overload clears hehehehehe.

    I am thinking that photonic blasting module will prevent this punishment for overheating, as it does (at least to direct damage) currently, making it an option, at the cost of being unable to lose heat until you overheat. But the actual patch's arrival will be the be-all end-all for these inquiries.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Dirame.8521Dirame.8521 Member ✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    In PvE, I can understand that but in PvP, that change shouldn't be a problem. Regardless of whether this change was there or not, the last thing you want to do is overload because Shockwave is on such a short cooldown that it is beneficial for you NOT to overload.

    It is a direct and massive nerf across all game modes. It is a problem. Period. It guts PVE holosmith and it makes PVP/WvW holosmith much more dangerous to use, and there is no reason to institute such a change. Holosmiths with their toolbelt skills aren't overpowered at all.

    I guess we'll just have to learn to manage our heat mechanic better. I feel for the PvE guys, but for PvP/WvW, it isn't really a nerf. Anyone who is constantly overheating when not playing the spec that is specifically built to overheat needs to learn to stop doing that. It doesn't help you win fights UNLESS you're just trying to go all in for the 'down'. In which case, that's a tactical choice, otherwise, it's just not a smart move.

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    The lightning field when combined with leap skills cause daze. At the right time, at the right moment in a PvP match YES, a .25s daze can make a difference. Trust me, you should see some of the clutch moments I have had the pleasure of recording, it is incredible how close some moments are.

    Why do you do this? You see that I already explained how the lightning field works multiple times in the same post, so why go on? Did you actually read the post, or are you just being contentious? As for the 0.25 seconds making a difference... I don't believe you. Period. I think you're lying just to be difficult.

    I noticed you explained a bit more after I read on into your post. That said. I am not lying. Answer me these question if you will; Would you say interrupting a stomp with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a heal with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a Firebrand about to use Signet of Mercy with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time?
    I rest my case.

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    This may actually prove to be the strongest trait especially against burst classes. Especially if backstab D/P thieves come back. Being able to react and heal or even block damage because it takes a 2 second delay to ALL hit you?... come on man. Why are you hating on everything?

    This does nothing against burst classes. Scrapper's lost 3000 health, effectively making them a low tier HP class. Getting 20% of your health back via delayed damage doesn't compensate for the health lost. A good burst will completely blow past this trait like it doesn't even exist. Likewise, a good burst will make sure you're completely disabled, so you'll be stunned for the 2 seconds it takes for the damage to tick. There are already much better traits in other lines that actually help you deal with burst, but they do it in a way that provides statistical advantage.

    There's an expression: don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. This trait reeks of urine.

    I'll test it out before I make any further assumptions. So l'll leave this be.

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    Why do you seem to be intentionally difficult? Sure you can maintain all 3 if you really wanted to. Combine all the leap finishers/blast finishers and you technically have near infinite superspeed then just take 1 trait in tools with a kit and you definitely have infinite swiftness and take one trait in Firearms and you got near infinite stab. GG

    If you're building for damage, you must take Applied Force, Mass Momentum, and Objects in Motion. If you do this, you have no way to stack consistently stack super speed, stability, or even swiftness. You get Rocket Charge, which is a DPS loss under quickness. That's it. So... 3 seconds of super speed. This is a DPS trait that only works if you don't take the other DPS traits, and build yourself stupid just to force Objects in Motion to function.

    If you REALLY want to have infinite Swiftness, good uptime on Superspeed and Stab, YOU CAN: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASnUUB1ah9ZBeeBEqil7iCsBjwAge1j9cfcEbiUE-j5QHABFt/g9lBA4DAAA (the traits in scrapper are the locations of the traits you mentioned you'd use for power scrapper. copy the link into your address bar to get access to the build, clicking doesn't work for some reason)

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    • Hip shot nerf is beyond comprehension. It was the only skill on rifle that tracked targets, and almost all other classes get skills that track. Now, people will be able to strafe left and right and avoid rifle even more.

    This bug fix is fine. What "almost all other classes" have auto attack fast moving projectiles that track? Also it pierces and is the highest damage Rifle auto attack out of the 3 Rifle users. Your outrage at this is beyond comprehension.

    1. It wasn't a bug.
    2. It was an autoattack. None of our 2-5 skills had tracking.
    3. It has significantly less range and doesn't travel as fast as longbow arrows. The damage isn't out of this world -- it's plinking damage.

    Yes, it was an autoattack, which is why I specifically mentioned auto attack in my reply. Are you aware that almost zero (if not actually zero) other professions have 1-5 projectile skills that track?

    It certainly says it was a bug in the patch notes, and I'm far more inclined to believe the game developers over a typical player in that regard. You can have the bug back as soon as they give the same bug to Warriors and Deadeyes, okay?

    1. Actually, they do. The difference is in how they track. I was bored so I messed around with some golems in the PvP lobby. Longbow arrows fly farther and faster than rifle projectiles do, and they can be way off-target and still count as a hit. Rifle projectiles don't get that luxury, but it seemed like engineer rifle had less forgiveness compared to warrior rifle. I didn't bother with deadeye rifle, so I leave that decision to you.

    Actually no, they don't. Engi rifle only has 1 skill that can compare to the 1 thru 5 skills of Warrior and DE Rifle and that's the auto attack (I believe Overcharged Shot projectile speed is much faster) - which makes the engi the one that has a far more forgiving skill because, before the upcoming patch, it tracks. Ranger longbow arrows fire faster. Warrior and DH do not. Further? Yes, but nobody was disputing that. Contrary to your claim, rifle shots are actually more reliable in terms of hitting strafing targets than Warrior and DH longbow.

    1. Yes, but they also called the net shot firing backwards a bug. Not long ago they said it was supposed to fire backwards. I'm not sure I trust their track record on "bugs"

    Sure, net shot release notes have been contradictory. But it is not comparable to Hip Shot, as no other rifle attacks worked like that, and they have no previous notes regarding this. I am discussing Hip Shot, not Net Shot

    1. So your method of balance is "If I can't have it, nobody can?" Strange policy, but you do you.

    What is your reasoning that one auto attack should have this, while the other two cannot? I guarantee it's not anything better than my request for uniform mechanics.

    Congratulations, you've won an internet! I'm not sure what you're arguing with me about, or why it's such a big deal to you. So I'm just going to leave this here.

    It's unfortunate that you don't seem to be able to admit you are wrong when proven so, and you resort to abandoning the conversation in such a manner. Please avoid such hostile reactions when the person you are talking to is not being hostile.

    I've learned long ago that arguing on the internet is about as effective as pissing into the wind. You're just going to get wet and cold.

    If you interpreted my response as hostile, my apologies. Not my intention. But it's kind of obvious I won't be able to convince you. It's better to just leave it alone.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    In PvE, I can understand that but in PvP, that change shouldn't be a problem. Regardless of whether this change was there or not, the last thing you want to do is overload because Shockwave is on such a short cooldown that it is beneficial for you NOT to overload.

    It is a direct and massive nerf across all game modes. It is a problem. Period. It guts PVE holosmith and it makes PVP/WvW holosmith much more dangerous to use, and there is no reason to institute such a change. Holosmiths with their toolbelt skills aren't overpowered at all.

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    The lightning field when combined with leap skills cause daze. At the right time, at the right moment in a PvP match YES, a .25s daze can make a difference. Trust me, you should see some of the clutch moments I have had the pleasure of recording, it is incredible how close some moments are.

    Why do you do this? You see that I already explained how the lightning field works multiple times in the same post, so why go on? Did you actually read the post, or are you just being contentious? As for the 0.25 seconds making a difference... I don't believe you. Period. I think you're lying just to be difficult.

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    This may actually prove to be the strongest trait especially against burst classes. Especially if backstab D/P thieves come back. Being able to react and heal or even block damage because it takes a 2 second delay to ALL hit you?... come on man. Why are you hating on everything?

    This does nothing against burst classes. Scrapper's lost 3000 health, effectively making them a low tier HP class. Getting 20% of your health back via delayed damage doesn't compensate for the health lost. A good burst will completely blow past this trait like it doesn't even exist. Likewise, a good burst will make sure you're completely disabled, so you'll be stunned for the 2 seconds it takes for the damage to tick. There are already much better traits in other lines that actually help you deal with burst, but they do it in a way that provides statistical advantage.

    There's an expression: don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. This trait reeks of urine.

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    Why do you seem to be intentionally difficult? Sure you can maintain all 3 if you really wanted to. Combine all the leap finishers/blast finishers and you technically have near infinite superspeed then just take 1 trait in tools with a kit and you definitely have infinite swiftness and take one trait in Firearms and you got near infinite stab. GG

    If you're building for damage, you must take Applied Force, Mass Momentum, and Objects in Motion. If you do this, you have no way to stack consistently stack super speed, stability, or even swiftness. You get Rocket Charge, which is a DPS loss under quickness. That's it. So... 3 seconds of super speed. This is a DPS trait that only works if you don't take the other DPS traits, and build yourself stupid just to force Objects in Motion to function.


    Look, man, if you don't know what's going on, don't be reluctant to not say something. Criticism and debate only works if it is sincere, well thought out, and addresses the actual points made. Otherwise, it is just a nuisance.

    There's also blast finishers from different skills/toolbelt skills. I, for one, use the flamethrower in pvp, so i have access to many blast finishers, plus the leap finisher from rocket charge, so it will make running the FT look pretty promising in terms of keeping up both stab (thanks to Juggernaut) and superspeed. Also, Elixir gun has a blast finisher on skill 4, and i think blast gyro's blast attack counts as a blast finisher. If people run Elixir X still, the seismic leap on rampage is a leap finisher (I think). There are ways to get the finishers, We'll just need to play the changes before we can jump to any extreme conclusions, both on the positive side and the negative side.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • @Dirame.8521 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    The lightning field when combined with leap skills cause daze. At the right time, at the right moment in a PvP match YES, a .25s daze can make a difference. Trust me, you should see some of the clutch moments I have had the pleasure of recording, it is incredible how close some moments are.

    Why do you do this? You see that I already explained how the lightning field works multiple times in the same post, so why go on? Did you actually read the post, or are you just being contentious? As for the 0.25 seconds making a difference... I don't believe you. Period. I think you're lying just to be difficult.

    I noticed you explained a bit more after I read on into your post. That said. I am not lying. Answer me these question if you will; Would you say interrupting a stomp with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a heal with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a Firebrand about to use Signet of Mercy with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time?
    I rest my case.

    This "argument" of yours is completely off. The thing is that it doesn't give you any additional dazes that would indeed have the uses you elaborated on but the dazes you already do via combo finishers last 0.25s longer. A 0.75s daze instead of a 0.5s daze on using Hammer 3 in a lightning field (about the only reliable source of leaps you'll find on scrapper builds) won't give you any perceivable advantage.

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    Interesting patch. I currently run Condi Scrapper on my WvW roaming build, but will likely have to change back to core (much more of a challenge) or switch to power holo (yawn.. just kill me now) if this goes through.

    I use Scrapper because it comes with

    • Sneak Gyro, Detection Pulse,
    • 3 good sustain traits,
    • the ability to stomp with function gyro while I keep fighting other players

    All of these things are essential survival tools when fighting outnumbered 1vX. Now it seems with this patch, they're removing the detection half of sneak gyro, dropping most (all?) of the sustain traits, and making function gyro more powerful, at a cost of a longer cooldown. Additionally, Scrapper now has a mandatory -300vit with a +% barrier vampirism trait but this is a really bad deal for condi, as it only applies on strike damage.

    Basically, stealth and a stomp helper at a cost of an entire traitline and -300vit... I don't know.

    This might force me to drop Scrapper entirely and run core instead.. That would be annoying, as I'd have to give up one of my utility skills to slot Elixir S to do Sneak Gyro's job of stealth and Function Gyro's job of safe stomps. I wish you could slot normal utility skills in the elite slot..

  • Dirame.8521Dirame.8521 Member ✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @talprofil.5986 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    The lightning field when combined with leap skills cause daze. At the right time, at the right moment in a PvP match YES, a .25s daze can make a difference. Trust me, you should see some of the clutch moments I have had the pleasure of recording, it is incredible how close some moments are.

    Why do you do this? You see that I already explained how the lightning field works multiple times in the same post, so why go on? Did you actually read the post, or are you just being contentious? As for the 0.25 seconds making a difference... I don't believe you. Period. I think you're lying just to be difficult.

    I noticed you explained a bit more after I read on into your post. That said. I am not lying. Answer me these question if you will; Would you say interrupting a stomp with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a heal with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a Firebrand about to use Signet of Mercy with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time?
    I rest my case.

    This "argument" of yours is completely off. The thing is that it doesn't give you any additional dazes that would indeed have the uses you elaborated on but the dazes you already do via combo finishers last 0.25s longer. A 0.75s daze instead of a 0.5s daze on using Hammer 3 in a lightning field (about the only reliable source of leaps you'll find on scrapper builds) won't give you any perceivable advantage.

    The additional uptime of lightning fields means you have more access to said 'daze' combo instead of depending on the cooldown on your Hammer 5 for a lightning field.

  • Jaruselka.5943Jaruselka.5943 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2019

    "Blowtorch: This skill now applies 4 stacks of burning that scales dynamically between 3 and 6 seconds based on distance from the target. This skill now scales damage dynamically based on distance rather than using distance thresholds."

    That's nice...if it hits: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/77571/pistol-4-blowtorch-quality-of-life-fix

    Overall this patch a huge engie nerf..as usual. The loss of detection pulse just makes the broken stealth mechanic even more OP. If you are going to take away our ability to deal with the stealth mechanic then make the mechanic more of a risk. This is a clear sign that Anet is STILL struggling to find a place for the Engineer class since they launched the game.

  • Mil.3562Mil.3562 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2019

    This is why I feared balance patches. Every patch is

    1. A huge nerf for one or two professions while trying very hard to convince us that those nerfs are changes (eg. Rapid Regen) and buffs (eg. Gyro Function). They gut skills that are useful or fun and buff skills that no one uses.

    2. A nerf to all other proffessions in the name of... as above.

    This patch, we are lucky enough to be selected for the big nerf because we are starting to get useful and having too much fun in WvW. I hope this will not hurt Scrapper so much that WvW is back to the three-meta-class days. Perhaps ANet is trying to make them the holy trinity in WvW.

    The player base is diminishing and yet the nerfs continue as normal. Disappointed. Really.

  • Mil.3562Mil.3562 Member ✭✭✭

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    Scrapper balancing turns out better than expected. It will be painful to lose some of the old features which made this class so much fun and reliable, but there are a lot of chances to improve and rise even higher. I am still very happy for the fact that we get informed BEFORE the actual patch happens, highly appreciated.

    The new way how F5 is going to work is a first step towards a real trade-off-system. If you want to use an Elite Specialization, you will lose your elite toolbelt slot. On the other hand we finally get control over the Function Gyro. I was using Detection Pulse frequently, it pretty much ruined going into stealth for our enemies. Only the DE with Shadow Meld was able to stealth anyway. Stealth is a powerful game-mechanic. If an enemy goes into stealth, it should empower him and make him a threat to us. We still have enough other options to reveal, compared to other professions. This is another part of the trade-off-system. We want to reveal players, so we have to "sacrifice" a real skill for it. As a conclusion, we may get a few more competitive builds which utilize the gadgets, which is much appreciated.

    The traits look awesome, Rapid Regeneration will be missed though. Damage Dampener will make a lot of people rage in fury. It does look useless on the first view, but it will defuse a lot of extreme burst-skills. It boosts the way barrier works and allows us to neutralize more of the incoming damage. Really looking forward to this one.

    More when the patch is live.

    1. Removal of ALL 4 Elite toolbelt skills
    2. Gyro Function has cool down time tripled and range cut by 300
    3. Rapid Regen being the bread and butter of healing and sustainability, gone.

    It may not be as bad to those that that don't play healing Scrapper in WvW, but how is this better for those that do? A genuine question.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2019

    @coro.3176 said:
    Basically, stealth and a stomp helper at a cost of an entire traitline and -300vit... I don't know.

    The -300 vitality is funny in particular... I run a mostly trailblazer roamer and got a decent chunk of hp, 24ish or whatever it is. Yesterday when roaming I was looking at my hp, the situation (good people, bad people, 1v2, 1vX, small group fights, etc) and realized... I would loose so, so many of the harder fights against good enemy roamers and smaller groups on 3000 less hp alone, because good enemies run heavy burst builds. Whether I won or lost the fight, I was often below that hp and had to sustain to get heals up. I run a full kitten tank with all defensive traits now and they're all going to be gone.

    In the WvW forum, someone posted a picture of a reset zerg having 70% scourges. I sure as heck aint playing zerg scrapper healer after this patch even if it's core traits are unaffected. Because nothing makes sense anymore with the new scrapper and people are already shifting. No Anet, I do not want to go full berserker hammer spec just to get my own barriers from the new trait when scourges get AoE barriers by accidentally sneezing.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • miriforst.1290miriforst.1290 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @coro.3176 said:
    Basically, stealth and a stomp helper at a cost of an entire traitline and -300vit... I don't know.

    The -300 vitality is funny in particular... I run a mostly trailblazer roamer and got a decent chunk of hp, 24ish or whatever it is. Yesterday when roaming I was looking at my hp, the situation (good people, bad people, 1v2, 1vX, small group fights, etc) and realized... I would loose so, so many of the harder fights against good enemy roamers and smaller groups on 3000 less hp alone, because good enemies run heavy burst builds. Whether I won or lost the fight, I was often below that hp and had to sustain to get heals up. I run a full kitten tank with all defensive traits now and they're all going to be gone.

    In the WvW forum, someone posted a picture of a reset zerg having 70% scourges. I sure as heck aint playing zerg scrapper healer after this patch even if it's core traits are unaffected. Because nothing makes sense anymore with the new scrapper and people are already shifting. No Anet, I do not want to go full berserker hammer spec just to get my own barriers from the new trait when scourges get AoE barriers by accidentally sneezing.

    Indeed, that minor trait alone pushes out actual bruisers (using toughness etc instead of full glass) as well as healer specs (that deal no damage and spend a lot of time healing instead of damaging) and the snowflake condiscrappers still holding out hope. And in the end, we already had a full damage spec in holo, we don't need two berserker melee cleave specs (and holo still does that so much better).

    If the -300 vit is for the sake of the 15% barrier generation why not have that as an optional grandmaster trait then (instead of the mess that is the new adaptive armor....) similar to invigorating precision (which is actual healing and doesn't carry a penalty, on a class well built to use it). This minor trait has to compensate the loss of all our previous barrier traits, as well as rapid regeneration and 300 vit on top of that. And in pvp i'm not sure it does,

    My theory is that they are destroying scrapper like this for the sake of (imaginary) pve scrappers and to do the classic nerf that looks like a fair rework to the outsider. In pve cleaving 5 targets with impunity is the norm and since glass is the only way there, they tried to reshape the scrapper into a fractal hero or something while ignoring how people have actually been using scrappers for the past years.

    Funny thing is that the blokes at the pvp forum are already screaming "NERF!" at the top of their lungs, because they think of all of this added onto the existing scrapper, and don't realize that this is a big gut punch of a nerf across the entire spec, and they don't see how much of it is meaningless fluff with massive penalties. I cringe every time i hear wooden potato go "exciting!!!!" over every single thing. Just listen to him talk about the damage delay trait like its the best thing that has ever happened.

    Speaking of which isn't it just hilarious how they removed the most popular master trait and left the trait that was never used as is? It's like trying to balance shredder gyro by removing all other gyros.

    -Purity of Purpose-
    P.S. You know, expert examination has worked this way since HOT release. You just updated the description.

    Also super speed does not stack, it overwrites. 5s + 1s=1s.

  • mov.1246mov.1246 Member ✭✭

    Well i had a break and didnt played gw2 for 1 oder 2 month and the first i read are this terrible patch notes...
    disabling toolbelt while overheatet? how is this affected with PBM? The massive dmg when overheating already seems to beenough punishmentfor me.
    LOS on blunderbuss, mehhh but i am ok with this. But the removal of the autoattack tracking? kitten?? its the only skill we can chasing somebody from far away, and now its gone.
    scrapper changes seems weird to me, the biggest loses imo are perfetly wighted, rapid regen, and adaptive armor barrier. No one of the new traits looks like "wow thats good" to me.
    And the last is, why there is no real condi buff or rework?

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭
    edited July 13, 2019

    Hello,

    Non engineer player here. I was not a fan of the side nodding scrapper but I liked the idea of him beeing support in PvP and PvE. While I did prefer the old design, on paper "damage as barrier" pushes scrapper as a bruiser and sounds to me like "if you have an advantage, you can snowball" (in PvP). I am not a fan of some mechanics like that in other games. While most of you seem opposed to the rework, can you tell me what you think of this ?(keep in mind I do not play engie, do not fully understand the big picture of all the talent rework yet, I just want a feeedback/opinion from you because only time will tell how good / bad this is :smile: )
    Edit : I also did take time to read the previous messages and the health drop. If you play Hots I think of the new style as an Artanis (the strongest counter might be blindness / cc).

  • @Dirame.8521 said:

    @talprofil.5986 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    The lightning field when combined with leap skills cause daze. At the right time, at the right moment in a PvP match YES, a .25s daze can make a difference. Trust me, you should see some of the clutch moments I have had the pleasure of recording, it is incredible how close some moments are.

    Why do you do this? You see that I already explained how the lightning field works multiple times in the same post, so why go on? Did you actually read the post, or are you just being contentious? As for the 0.25 seconds making a difference... I don't believe you. Period. I think you're lying just to be difficult.

    I noticed you explained a bit more after I read on into your post. That said. I am not lying. Answer me these question if you will; Would you say interrupting a stomp with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a heal with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a Firebrand about to use Signet of Mercy with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time?
    I rest my case.

    This "argument" of yours is completely off. The thing is that it doesn't give you any additional dazes that would indeed have the uses you elaborated on but the dazes you already do via combo finishers last 0.25s longer. A 0.75s daze instead of a 0.5s daze on using Hammer 3 in a lightning field (about the only reliable source of leaps you'll find on scrapper builds) won't give you any perceivable advantage.

    The additional uptime of lightning fields means you have more access to said 'daze' combo instead of depending on the cooldown on your Hammer 5 for a lightning field.

    I read nothing of lightning fields lasting longer. I only read finishers in lightning field being more effective. The trait is independent of the new F5 spawning a lightning field.
    There was no shortage of lightning fields in the first place with Bulwark Gyro and Shredder Gyro toolbelt also granting lightning fields.

  • Dirame.8521Dirame.8521 Member ✭✭

    @talprofil.5986 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @talprofil.5986 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    The lightning field when combined with leap skills cause daze. At the right time, at the right moment in a PvP match YES, a .25s daze can make a difference. Trust me, you should see some of the clutch moments I have had the pleasure of recording, it is incredible how close some moments are.

    Why do you do this? You see that I already explained how the lightning field works multiple times in the same post, so why go on? Did you actually read the post, or are you just being contentious? As for the 0.25 seconds making a difference... I don't believe you. Period. I think you're lying just to be difficult.

    I noticed you explained a bit more after I read on into your post. That said. I am not lying. Answer me these question if you will; Would you say interrupting a stomp with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a heal with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a Firebrand about to use Signet of Mercy with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time?
    I rest my case.

    This "argument" of yours is completely off. The thing is that it doesn't give you any additional dazes that would indeed have the uses you elaborated on but the dazes you already do via combo finishers last 0.25s longer. A 0.75s daze instead of a 0.5s daze on using Hammer 3 in a lightning field (about the only reliable source of leaps you'll find on scrapper builds) won't give you any perceivable advantage.

    The additional uptime of lightning fields means you have more access to said 'daze' combo instead of depending on the cooldown on your Hammer 5 for a lightning field.

    I read nothing of lightning fields lasting longer. I only read finishers in lightning field being more effective. The trait is independent of the new F5 spawning a lightning field.
    There was no shortage of lightning fields in the first place with Bulwark Gyro and Shredder Gyro toolbelt also granting lightning fields.

    More effective usually means longer duration based off of other traits with similar strange wording. But I meant more access as in, more lightening fields. And a lightning field which you don't have to press another button for after using your Function Gyro works better in situations to do with rezzing. It means less button presses on the long run.

    Are you going to put all gyros in your bunker build?

    I don't know what you guys use but the last thing I would use when playing Bunker Scrapper is 5 gyros.

  • santenal.1054santenal.1054 Member ✭✭✭

    Now that the elite specs dont use the standard F5 skills anymore they can put stunbreaks on "Med Pack Drop" , "Toss Elixir X" and "Orbital Strike" to make core engi a class worth playing again.

  • Ivantreil.3092Ivantreil.3092 Member ✭✭✭

    @santenal.1054 said:
    Now that the elite specs dont use the standard F5 skills anymore they can put stunbreaks on "Med Pack Drop" , "Toss Elixir X" and "Orbital Strike" to make core engi a class worth playing again.

    Heck also buff Orbital strike damage, could use a modifier that makes it worth all the precasting that it has to pass for

  • cgMatt.5162cgMatt.5162 Member ✭✭✭

    Blunderbuss no longer hitting behind LOS makes me sad, for years this was a tool for doing just that. :(

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 14, 2019

    @santenal.1054 said:
    Now that the elite specs dont use the standard F5 skills anymore they can put stunbreaks on "Med Pack Drop" , "Toss Elixir X" and "Orbital Strike" to make core engi a class worth playing again.

    Sorry for this-

    AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA!!!

    There, that's done and out of the way.

    Having F5 skills isn't going to right everything that's wrong with core. It's the equivalent of having three children, and your paediatrician telling you that the mentally stunted one of the three is now on a more even footing because, in the interest of fairness, said doctor took the initiative of having the fingers removed from the two otherwise whole and healthy children. Hypothetically, and by all prevailing mores of our day, you'd still be expected to love all three equally, truth is you'd have three cripples rather than one to contend with.

    None of the changes listed have made core engineer a more desirable spec to play. And apart from making rifle even worse, nothing's changed for core engineer- nothing for the better, rather in these notes. After reading them again I'd say these changes were crafted with a liberal amount of condescension and passive-aggressiveness thrown in, but that's giving Anet too much credit. As the old saying goes- 'never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity' -or in this case incompetence and indifference.

    But every cloud, eh? At least there's no need this time for someone to glibly inquire, 'Where on the doll did the bad dev touch you?' It's all up there in writing. And if that's not the topper there's still fashion wars to enjoy.

  • santenal.1054santenal.1054 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 14, 2019

    @Iozeph.5617 said:
    Having F5 skills isn't going to right everything that's wrong with core.

    Didn't you mean to write "Having STUNBREAKERS ON CORE F5 skills isn't going to right everything that's wrong with core." ? It seems like you did not understand what I wrote, because your ramblings were irrelivant to my comment.
    I also never said it would fix everything wrong with core, it's just a nice opportunity to buff core without buffing the elite specs, enabling quite a few players to be reasonably competitive with core builds that they enjoy playing. (not that I expect the devs to listen to my advice, they never have and they probably never will).

  • @Dirame.8521 said:

    @talprofil.5986 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @talprofil.5986 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    The lightning field when combined with leap skills cause daze. At the right time, at the right moment in a PvP match YES, a .25s daze can make a difference. Trust me, you should see some of the clutch moments I have had the pleasure of recording, it is incredible how close some moments are.

    Why do you do this? You see that I already explained how the lightning field works multiple times in the same post, so why go on? Did you actually read the post, or are you just being contentious? As for the 0.25 seconds making a difference... I don't believe you. Period. I think you're lying just to be difficult.

    I noticed you explained a bit more after I read on into your post. That said. I am not lying. Answer me these question if you will; Would you say interrupting a stomp with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a heal with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a Firebrand about to use Signet of Mercy with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time?
    I rest my case.

    This "argument" of yours is completely off. The thing is that it doesn't give you any additional dazes that would indeed have the uses you elaborated on but the dazes you already do via combo finishers last 0.25s longer. A 0.75s daze instead of a 0.5s daze on using Hammer 3 in a lightning field (about the only reliable source of leaps you'll find on scrapper builds) won't give you any perceivable advantage.

    The additional uptime of lightning fields means you have more access to said 'daze' combo instead of depending on the cooldown on your Hammer 5 for a lightning field.

    I read nothing of lightning fields lasting longer. I only read finishers in lightning field being more effective. The trait is independent of the new F5 spawning a lightning field.
    There was no shortage of lightning fields in the first place with Bulwark Gyro and Shredder Gyro toolbelt also granting lightning fields.

    More effective usually means longer duration based off of other traits with similar strange wording. But I meant more access as in, more lightening fields. And a lightning field which you don't have to press another button for after using your Function Gyro works better in situations to do with rezzing. It means less button presses on the long run.

    Are you going to put all gyros in your bunker build?

    I don't know what you guys use but the last thing I would use when playing Bunker Scrapper is 5 gyros.

    The current bunker build in PvP runs up to 4 gyros, bulwark gyro always included. Shredder is rather niche but if you run mortar kit elite, it is somewhat viable with the whirl finisher spam.
    It is redundant anyway because if you trait it, the function gyro already dazes on cast.
    Also compare how the ele trait is worded as "Fire fields created by weapon skills last longer". Doubt this is an oversight.

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mil.3562 said:
    1. Removal of ALL 4 Elite toolbelt skills
    2. Gyro Function has cool down time tripled and range cut by 300
    3. Rapid Regen being the bread and butter of healing and sustainability, gone.

    It may not be as bad to those that that don't play healing Scrapper in WvW, but how is this better for those that do? A genuine question.

    I do not remember how many times I had to change my Engineer over the past 6 years. I never had a consistent build that worked for longer than a few months, some became outdated shortly after I completed the gear. A lot of times I had to start from scratch. Engineer is not and never has been a consistent class to begin with. We received a lot of drastic balances in the past, let alone the entire "purity of purpose" scenario.

    When I first heard of the Heal Scrapper, I was quite excited. An engineer form which was capable of healing properly, even in comparison to other healers like Druid or Guardian. The excitement cooled down once I realized that it relies almost completely on MDF and Rapid Regeneration. Sorry, but that is not a healer. You cannot play a healer with one skill. That is russian roulette, one tiny little modification to how RR works and the entire thing is dead.

    Chronomancer got up from its ashes (the Fall of Signet of Inspiration) pretty quickly and is currently in a state where it is quite stable. I still remember the doomcryers predicting the END of the class, let alone the end of GW2. Raids unplayable, Fractals unplayable. Just because of one OP skill being balanced. Again, a class that does a good job because of one skill only is not a good class. Scrapper is a lot more than RR and MDF. It will be a difficult task, will probably take a while to find a new way, but I do not think it is impossible. Maybe we get a new option with later updates, maybe we find a rune/sigil synergy at some point to get even beyond the capabilities of the current Heal Scrapper one day. I cannot predict the future, but I know our community - the ones who play Engineer no matter if it is meta or not. We will find a way, as we always did.

    -

    The gyro changes are not for you and not for me obviously. Those of us who know how it works and frequently use it will see a nerf in this patch, as you have already pointed out. It can be compared to the infamous turret-patch we had a while ago. It will make the functionality easier to understand and use for new players. We will get a toolbelt slot for it, which will indicate a cooldown. It will be ground-target based, so we can deploy it to a certain location and see what it does.

    They have never been huge fans of the Elite Profession topic.

    "You start with Guardian/Warrior and once you are really really good in the game, you can try Elementalist or Engineer"

    With the introduction of Holosmith, Engineer became a plug&play class. The turret-patch removed a very difficult part of Core Engineer. Your beloved Healing Turret combo still works, some claim it works even better than before the patch. With the Function Gyro changes, we will lose the odd view of players at our "class mechanic." If the changes work as intended, we can maybe consider it a class mechanic at last. Until today it is a gamble for most players. Many never use it at all.

    -

    I do not think this is the real end of Heal Scrapper or Heal Engineer in general. The med-kit got drastically improved over the past years. Same goes for our traits.

  • Someone please help me understand some of the changes we will get. #1) We lose our barriers from Recovery Matrix, Decisive renowned, and Adaptive armor. (way to much nerf) Where are we getting our barriers from now? All I see is the barrier from is Impact Savant and Bulwark Gyro (nerfed). I have no idea how much we will get if any. The barriers were my only chance at a possible defense against a Scourge (stupid red rings of death) , Shatter Mesmer (condi nightmare), or a berserk Warriors mega damage (which is getting an increase in damage! smh!) . All of which had no nerfs on their ridiculous high damage attacks! #2) We are now as a scrapper, forced to use function gyro on F5. We lose the Detection pulse. Which was very useful sweeping keeps and towers. And aided the fight against Mesmers and Thieves and other Engi's. Why? Why take that useful tool away? It confuses me. What is the point in tying our hands with 1 f5 option (poop ton of recharge). When we had many others good skills to choose from. Plus we lose our group condi clear and heals in med pack drop. It's hard enough for a wvw group wanting us in their comp. And you take it away? Grrrr!! What positives as a scrapper, Have we gained? From our major loses in this update. if any. Not happy with your thought process on this Anet. Small changes are fine. But this is huge and unnecessary. IMHO.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 14, 2019

    @Warrior Xsr.1672 said:
    Where are we getting our barriers from now? All I see is the barrier from is Impact Savant and Bulwark Gyro (nerfed). I have no idea how much we will get if any.

    That's what the new trait giving you 15% barrier from "strikes" (whatever the heck that even means) is supposed to replace. Presumably only power damage.

    TL;DR you loose everything that make you tanky and Anet wants you to tank by going full berserker.

    As someone somewhere said: Anet want the new scrapper to be a Fractal hero, because kitten WvW/PvP. That's my takeaway from it.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • santenal.1054santenal.1054 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 15, 2019

    @Iozeph.5617 said:

    I understood what you'd written

    You obviously didn't.

    and to be a bit more concise for you it just didn't/doesn't matter.

    You laughed at me without understanding what I wrote and now you basically tell me it doesn't mather that you were rude for no reason.

    Core has access to plenty of stunbreakers without going anywhere near f5 skills to get them.

    Having acces to plenty of stunbreakers and effectivly slotting (enough of) them is quite different. having Stunbreakers on the F5 skills will give people some more wiggle room to decide what they are going to put in their 3 utility slots. (most likely in favor of damage output since the F5 skill would contribute more to the survivability of the build than before)

    Core having more stun breaks just means you aren't stunned when they knock the stuffing out of you. Yay? Stunbreaks mean nothing if, once freed, you have nothing hard-hitting with which to apply pressure back at the enemy to back them off of you or even down them. That's where core is. It's "Running Away and Getting Shot In the Back For Your Trouble Simulator 2019."

    The damage output of core engineer in general is really lacking, I think most know this already.

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭

    @santenal.1054 said:

    @Iozeph.5617 said:

    I understood what you'd written

    You obviously didn't.

    and to be a bit more concise for you it just didn't/doesn't matter.

    You laughed at me without understanding what I wrote and now you basically tell me it doesn't mather that you were rude for no reason.

    Core has access to plenty of stunbreakers without going anywhere near f5 skills to get them.

    Having acces to plenty of stunbreakers and effectivly slotting (enough of) them is quite different. having Stunbreakers on the F5 skills will give people some more wiggle room to decide what they are going to put in their 3 utility slots. (most likely in favor of damage output since the F5 skill would contribute more to the survivability of the build than before)

    Core having more stun breaks just means you aren't stunned when they knock the stuffing out of you. Yay? Stunbreaks mean nothing if, once freed, you have nothing hard-hitting with which to apply pressure back at the enemy to back them off of you or even down them. That's where core is. It's "Running Away and Getting Shot In the Back For Your Trouble Simulator 2019."

    The damage output of core engineer in general is really lacking, I think most know this already.

    I understood, and I wasn't laughing at you at all. It's why I separated that from the rest of the post. I'm laughing at the situation in general. And I'm still laughing. It just doesn't deserve its own thread in this forum. Stop taking it so personal and try to find the humour in getting anything but what we ever ask for around here.

    I'd say that happening with patches alone was worthy of turning into a drinking game but six months or longer between shots isn't a solid strategy for going blotto.

  • 15% of outgoing strike damage converted to barrier

    Is it ment to say critical strike damage?

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:
    15% of outgoing strike damage converted to barrier

    Is it ment to say critical strike damage?

    Probably, since that would not only force higher power builds (lets say... clerics might have been possible to run as a healbot for at least some barrier) but rather full zerker/marauder to get barrier.

    Because if you want to gut something, its best to also twist a serrated blade.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:
    15% of outgoing strike damage converted to barrier

    Is it ment to say critical strike damage?

    I think what they meant is direct damage. Condition damage won't apply barrier on you since it's not a strike type damage, rather a DoT, and critstrikes also count toward this damage as well.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Ok, I'm the minority here because obviously this patch affects more WvW and PVP scrappers, but I kinda like the direction of these changes.
    The times I play PVP or WVW are on Scrapper, but I mostly do PVE.

    For me the changes are obviously trying to align Scrapper into an Hybrid support role like Druid, Alacrigade or Quickbrand in PVE.
    They seem to be wanting to make Scrapper Stack Might, provide auras and tank by doing damage while also being able to heal others.
    It's either a Diviner or a Harrier build as an alternative to Druid in PVE imo. Which I kinda like, but for WvW I can see how horrible this will end up being.

    What I will say though is that it's a huge rework, with a lot of moving parts and obviously things might not work out as well for every kind of player out there. I'd say we test it out, give feedback and wait for the next update where they will fine tune the aspects of the class that are not working so well. They've been doing it with Berserker and other classes they've been changing so I for one am hopeful with what's to come.

  • DinoStone.2485DinoStone.2485 Member
    edited July 15, 2019

    I mostly play PvE, so I can say that the function gyro is bordering on completely useless for me. And now the fact that I need to give up something as big as my elite toolbelt skill for a function gyro that is still practically useless means that the already minority healing scrapper becomes even less useful. If I’m being honest I just want them to remove function gyro and give us a profession mechanic that doesn’t so blatantly favor PvP and WvW.

    Even then, I’ve done some of both on my scrapper, and I can say that my toobelt skill (especially detection pulse) has always been more useful to me than the still pretty useless function gyro. Please give us a profession mechanic that works in all game modes, and not one that favors two, and still doesn’t work all that well.

    I think that a profession mechanic should be central to a class/elite spec, but I’ve never felt that scrapper’s function gyro is central to the class, or something that I couldn’t picture the class without. Take for example the holosmith. The photon forge/heat is so central to everything about the class, and all the traits, exceed skills, and weapon skills revolve around that. While I’m not saying that scrapper needs to go that far, I’d like to see a profession mechanic that works more like that.

  • insanemaniac.2456insanemaniac.2456 Member ✭✭✭

    im a bit skeptical of almost all of the changes, to say the least... but losing the oldest true counter to stealth gameplay is a travesty. its a solid skill thats always been in a good spot balance wise that gives a drop of real meaning to the metagame of class choice or group composition. stealth users have to develop strategies to manage it, and it makes scrappers a huge threat and excellent disruption to their typical juking strategies.

    this is a big, weird, unnecessary step backwards.

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @talprofil.5986 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @talprofil.5986 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    The lightning field when combined with leap skills cause daze. At the right time, at the right moment in a PvP match YES, a .25s daze can make a difference. Trust me, you should see some of the clutch moments I have had the pleasure of recording, it is incredible how close some moments are.

    Why do you do this? You see that I already explained how the lightning field works multiple times in the same post, so why go on? Did you actually read the post, or are you just being contentious? As for the 0.25 seconds making a difference... I don't believe you. Period. I think you're lying just to be difficult.

    I noticed you explained a bit more after I read on into your post. That said. I am not lying. Answer me these question if you will; Would you say interrupting a stomp with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a heal with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a Firebrand about to use Signet of Mercy with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time?
    I rest my case.

    This "argument" of yours is completely off. The thing is that it doesn't give you any additional dazes that would indeed have the uses you elaborated on but the dazes you already do via combo finishers last 0.25s longer. A 0.75s daze instead of a 0.5s daze on using Hammer 3 in a lightning field (about the only reliable source of leaps you'll find on scrapper builds) won't give you any perceivable advantage.

    I don't know what you guys use but the last thing I would use when playing Bunker Scrapper is 5 gyros.

    lol Orly? Do you pvp?
    Cause I run with
    Medic
    Bulwark
    Purge
    Blast
    Sneak
    Works great. Do I need to explain why?
    I love the support of it. Someone want to give me a better support build for pvp, fire away.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    zerk scrap spamming mortar in wvw is gonna be so gud

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    @DinoStone.2485 said:
    If I’m being honest I just want them to remove function gyro and give us a profession mechanic that doesn’t so blatantly favor PvP and WvW.

    Even then, I’ve done some of both on my scrapper, and I can say that my toobelt skill (especially detection pulse) has always been more useful to me than the still pretty useless function gyro. Please give us a profession mechanic that works in all game modes, and not one that favors two, and still doesn’t work all that well.

    I think that a profession mechanic should be central to a class/elite spec, but I’ve never felt that scrapper’s function gyro is central to the class, or something that I couldn’t picture the class without. Take for example the holosmith. The photon forge/heat is so central to everything about the class, and all the traits, exceed skills, and weapon skills revolve around that. While I’m not saying that scrapper needs to go that far, I’d like to see a profession mechanic that works more like that.

    Yes, yes, and yes and a thousand, million times more yes to this.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    • Say bye bye to detection pulse (Gyro F5 skill)! Our only reveal will now be our Lock On trait. Analysis from Utility goggles won't be used.

    we are now going to get kitten hard by DE and mesmers

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • Dirame.8521Dirame.8521 Member ✭✭

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @talprofil.5986 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @talprofil.5986 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    The lightning field when combined with leap skills cause daze. At the right time, at the right moment in a PvP match YES, a .25s daze can make a difference. Trust me, you should see some of the clutch moments I have had the pleasure of recording, it is incredible how close some moments are.

    Why do you do this? You see that I already explained how the lightning field works multiple times in the same post, so why go on? Did you actually read the post, or are you just being contentious? As for the 0.25 seconds making a difference... I don't believe you. Period. I think you're lying just to be difficult.

    I noticed you explained a bit more after I read on into your post. That said. I am not lying. Answer me these question if you will; Would you say interrupting a stomp with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a heal with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a Firebrand about to use Signet of Mercy with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time?
    I rest my case.

    This "argument" of yours is completely off. The thing is that it doesn't give you any additional dazes that would indeed have the uses you elaborated on but the dazes you already do via combo finishers last 0.25s longer. A 0.75s daze instead of a 0.5s daze on using Hammer 3 in a lightning field (about the only reliable source of leaps you'll find on scrapper builds) won't give you any perceivable advantage.

    I don't know what you guys use but the last thing I would use when playing Bunker Scrapper is 5 gyros.

    lol Orly? Do you pvp?
    Cause I run with
    Medic
    Bulwark
    Purge
    Blast
    Sneak
    Works great. Do I need to explain why?
    I love the support of it. Someone want to give me a better support build for pvp, fire away.

    Bunker or support? For bunker I would spec differently but if you spec support, yea, I can see why you would use 5gyros. Although, I have an idea to use just 4. A special combo. Bulwark + elixir s. Infinite Absorption for 3s!!!!!! Maybe. Have to try it out.

  • @DinoStone.2485 said:
    I mostly play PvE, so I can say that the function gyro is bordering on completely useless for me. And now the fact that I need to give up something as big as my elite toolbelt skill for a function gyro that is still practically useless means that the already minority healing scrapper becomes even less useful. If I’m being honest I just want them to remove function gyro and give us a profession mechanic that doesn’t so blatantly favor PvP and WvW.

    Even then, I’ve done some of both on my scrapper, and I can say that my toobelt skill (especially detection pulse) has always been more useful to me than the still pretty useless function gyro. Please give us a profession mechanic that works in all game modes, and not one that favors two, and still doesn’t work all that well.

    I think that a profession mechanic should be central to a class/elite spec, but I’ve never felt that scrapper’s function gyro is central to the class, or something that I couldn’t picture the class without. Take for example the holosmith. The photon forge/heat is so central to everything about the class, and all the traits, exceed skills, and weapon skills revolve around that. While I’m not saying that scrapper needs to go that far, I’d like to see a profession mechanic that works more like that.

    I didn't notice the function gyro for a long time after I had started playing scrapper. So yes, it's a horrible profession mechanic.

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @talprofil.5986 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @talprofil.5986 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    The lightning field when combined with leap skills cause daze. At the right time, at the right moment in a PvP match YES, a .25s daze can make a difference. Trust me, you should see some of the clutch moments I have had the pleasure of recording, it is incredible how close some moments are.

    Why do you do this? You see that I already explained how the lightning field works multiple times in the same post, so why go on? Did you actually read the post, or are you just being contentious? As for the 0.25 seconds making a difference... I don't believe you. Period. I think you're lying just to be difficult.

    I noticed you explained a bit more after I read on into your post. That said. I am not lying. Answer me these question if you will; Would you say interrupting a stomp with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a heal with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a Firebrand about to use Signet of Mercy with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time?
    I rest my case.

    This "argument" of yours is completely off. The thing is that it doesn't give you any additional dazes that would indeed have the uses you elaborated on but the dazes you already do via combo finishers last 0.25s longer. A 0.75s daze instead of a 0.5s daze on using Hammer 3 in a lightning field (about the only reliable source of leaps you'll find on scrapper builds) won't give you any perceivable advantage.

    I don't know what you guys use but the last thing I would use when playing Bunker Scrapper is 5 gyros.

    lol Orly? Do you pvp?
    Cause I run with
    Medic
    Bulwark
    Purge
    Blast
    Sneak
    Works great. Do I need to explain why?
    I love the support of it. Someone want to give me a better support build for pvp, fire away.

    Bunker or support? For bunker I would spec differently but if you spec support, yea, I can see why you would use 5gyros. Although, I have an idea to use just 4. A special combo. Bulwark + elixir s. Infinite Absorption for 3s!!!!!! Maybe. Have to try it out.

    Well, it is the current Metabattle Scrapper Gyro Bunker.
    By the time you read this, it will be meaningless.
    The typical build runs e gun over blast.
    I ran it with menders for more healing.

    I don't know how it's going to actually fair after the patch. Guess we will see.

    @Vagrant.7206
    All the talk about drunk scrapper, I pulled up the Drunk Scrapper build and ran that a game.
    I had no idea what I was doing. But people died...and well, being a meme build, so did I :P

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RoterFuchs.9216 said:

    @DinoStone.2485 said:
    I mostly play PvE, so I can say that the function gyro is bordering on completely useless for me. And now the fact that I need to give up something as big as my elite toolbelt skill for a function gyro that is still practically useless means that the already minority healing scrapper becomes even less useful. If I’m being honest I just want them to remove function gyro and give us a profession mechanic that doesn’t so blatantly favor PvP and WvW.

    Even then, I’ve done some of both on my scrapper, and I can say that my toobelt skill (especially detection pulse) has always been more useful to me than the still pretty useless function gyro. Please give us a profession mechanic that works in all game modes, and not one that favors two, and still doesn’t work all that well.

    I think that a profession mechanic should be central to a class/elite spec, but I’ve never felt that scrapper’s function gyro is central to the class, or something that I couldn’t picture the class without. Take for example the holosmith. The photon forge/heat is so central to everything about the class, and all the traits, exceed skills, and weapon skills revolve around that. While I’m not saying that scrapper needs to go that far, I’d like to see a profession mechanic that works more like that.

    I didn't notice the function gyro for a long time after I had started playing scrapper. So yes, it's a horrible profession mechanic.

    If they would just have changed the gyro - even at the loss of F5 - it wouldnt be too horrible... Unlike this complete meltdown of the traits.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • raykor.6723raykor.6723 Member ✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    I read the notes again and again and I don't see one single change to Scrapper that is anything other than a nerf. Was Scrapper really this broken class that needed such a drastic overhaul? I don't understand what they were thinking.

    And after 7 years they decided the Engineer's rifle was so OP it need three skills nerfed as well?

  • Guess Power Holo descended from being good to being meh in Fractals/Raids now. Still waiting for "tradeoffs" on the guardian especs that are basically dominating all 3 gamemodes at this point.

  • They didn't even correct the whole "Overload" mistake in the patchnotes, so I wager nothing has changed at all between official and preliminary notes?

  • Trollocks.5084Trollocks.5084 Member ✭✭✭

    Welp, that -300 vitatlity is probably the biggest slap in the face. Scrapper is completely dead.

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