Balance Patch appreciation thread — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Balance Patch appreciation thread

Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭
edited July 12, 2019 in PVP

to get ahead of the rivers of tears, I (a terribly biased weaver main) am very happy with those changes.

While some things kinda baffled me: like holo not getting adressed at all; or how warrior only gets a 24s CD nerf to rampage; or why Primordial stance needed a buff etc. etc.

But overall im optimistic.

Edit:
For reference: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/81729/upcoming-balance-notes/p1

<1

Comments

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    Holosmith hasn't received any serious nerfs since December of last year. All is right with the world.

    There's a lot of confusing patch notes in here though.

    Engineer
    Overload: Overloading now disables all toolbelt skills for its duration.

    What is an Overload? Does this mean Overheat?

    Mesmer
    Illusions: The illusion counter that tracks clones now decrements immediately when a shatter is cast rather than waiting for the clones to be destroyed.
    Speed of Sand: Instead of granting superspeed when dodging, this trait instead causes Mirage Cloak to grant +66% movement speed.

    Does this mean Mirage loses out on the distance it can travel in mirage cloak if suffering cripple or chilled?

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Time to spam CI mesmer :D Or maybe ill just continue blowing people up with either Weaver or core Ranger.

  • Derm.4932Derm.4932 Member ✭✭✭

    Holo nerfs too light
    Weaver buffs arguably unnecessary
    CI not addressed

    Rest of the changes are pretty good but we'll see how Scrapper turns out

  • Low-key hoping this was PoF, but this is nice as well. I understand the wish to make PoF attractive to new consumers.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
    No nerfs to scourge.. kitten Anet?

    Outside of adding a 1s global cooldown between shade skills I actually can't imagine any nerfs necromancer specifically needs. It's exceptionally strong in the right circumstances but also very limited in it's role and what it can do with a very specific niche. That's how every build should be.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • ZeroTheCat.2684ZeroTheCat.2684 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
    No nerfs to scourge.. kitten Anet?

    Outside of adding a 1s global cooldown between shade skills I actually can't imagine any nerfs necromancer specifically needs. It's exceptionally strong in the right circumstances but also very limited in it's role and what it can do with a very specific niche. That's how every build should be.

    So still FB + 2 scourge every game. This patch won’t change a thing. Except we will see more eles. And how are buffs to guardians needed?? Are they even playing this game mode. Last nail in the coffin I’m afraid.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
    No nerfs to scourge.. kitten Anet?

    Outside of adding a 1s global cooldown between shade skills I actually can't imagine any nerfs necromancer specifically needs. It's exceptionally strong in the right circumstances but also very limited in it's role and what it can do with a very specific niche. That's how every build should be.

    So still FB + 2 scourge every game. This patch won’t change a thing. Except we will see more eles. And how are buffs to guardians needed?? Are they even playing this game mode. Last nail in the coffin I’m afraid.

    Idk. I've played 100 plat 1-2 games and while scourges and reapers on both teams aren't uncommmon Firebrands on either team feel very uncommon. People don't queue on Firebrand, even top tier PvPers, because playing Firebrand or dedicated support in general just makes you so dependent on everyone else on your team actually performing their roles. At this point Firebrand feels like an Automated Tournament only build.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • ZeroTheCat.2684ZeroTheCat.2684 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
    No nerfs to scourge.. kitten Anet?

    Outside of adding a 1s global cooldown between shade skills I actually can't imagine any nerfs necromancer specifically needs. It's exceptionally strong in the right circumstances but also very limited in it's role and what it can do with a very specific niche. That's how every build should be.

    So still FB + 2 scourge every game. This patch won’t change a thing. Except we will see more eles. And how are buffs to guardians needed?? Are they even playing this game mode. Last nail in the coffin I’m afraid.

    Idk. I've played 100 plat 1-2 games and while scourges and reapers on both teams aren't uncommmon Firebrands on either team feel very uncommon. People don't queue on Firebrand, even top tier PvPers, because playing Firebrand or dedicated support in general just makes you so dependent on everyone else on your team actually performing their roles. At this point Firebrand feels like an Automated Tournament only build.

    Yes, you are right. What I meant was that the meta won’t change. Also Buffing already strong classes won’t help the balance of this game..

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
    No nerfs to scourge.. kitten Anet?

    Outside of adding a 1s global cooldown between shade skills I actually can't imagine any nerfs necromancer specifically needs. It's exceptionally strong in the right circumstances but also very limited in it's role and what it can do with a very specific niche. That's how every build should be.

    So still FB + 2 scourge every game. This patch won’t change a thing. Except we will see more eles. And how are buffs to guardians needed?? Are they even playing this game mode. Last nail in the coffin I’m afraid.

    Idk. I've played 100 plat 1-2 games and while scourges and reapers on both teams aren't uncommmon Firebrands on either team feel very uncommon. People don't queue on Firebrand, even top tier PvPers, because playing Firebrand or dedicated support in general just makes you so dependent on everyone else on your team actually performing their roles. At this point Firebrand feels like an Automated Tournament only build.

    Yes, you are right. What I meant was that the meta won’t change. Also Buffing already strong classes won’t help the balance of this game..

    No top tier spec was specifically buffed. Firebrand+Scourge will remain strong in ranked but that's about it.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • ZeroTheCat.2684ZeroTheCat.2684 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    Guardian/DH did not need buffs imo. The most popular classes need to be catered to keep people playing the game I guess..

  • Ryan.9387Ryan.9387 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
    No nerfs to scourge.. kitten Anet?

    Outside of adding a 1s global cooldown between shade skills I actually can't imagine any nerfs necromancer specifically needs. It's exceptionally strong in the right circumstances but also very limited in it's role and what it can do with a very specific niche. That's how every build should be.

    So still FB + 2 scourge every game. This patch won’t change a thing. Except we will see more eles. And how are buffs to guardians needed?? Are they even playing this game mode. Last nail in the coffin I’m afraid.

    Idk. I've played 100 plat 1-2 games and while scourges and reapers on both teams aren't uncommmon Firebrands on either team feel very uncommon. People don't queue on Firebrand, even top tier PvPers, because playing Firebrand or dedicated support in general just makes you so dependent on everyone else on your team actually performing their roles. At this point Firebrand feels like an Automated Tournament only build.

    Yes, you are right. What I meant was that the meta won’t change. Also Buffing already strong classes won’t help the balance of this game..

    No top tier spec was specifically buffed. Firebrand+Scourge will remain strong in ranked but that's about it.

    Except weaver which is arguably top tier for sidepoint 1v1s.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ryan.9387 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
    No nerfs to scourge.. kitten Anet?

    Outside of adding a 1s global cooldown between shade skills I actually can't imagine any nerfs necromancer specifically needs. It's exceptionally strong in the right circumstances but also very limited in it's role and what it can do with a very specific niche. That's how every build should be.

    So still FB + 2 scourge every game. This patch won’t change a thing. Except we will see more eles. And how are buffs to guardians needed?? Are they even playing this game mode. Last nail in the coffin I’m afraid.

    Idk. I've played 100 plat 1-2 games and while scourges and reapers on both teams aren't uncommmon Firebrands on either team feel very uncommon. People don't queue on Firebrand, even top tier PvPers, because playing Firebrand or dedicated support in general just makes you so dependent on everyone else on your team actually performing their roles. At this point Firebrand feels like an Automated Tournament only build.

    Yes, you are right. What I meant was that the meta won’t change. Also Buffing already strong classes won’t help the balance of this game..

    No top tier spec was specifically buffed. Firebrand+Scourge will remain strong in ranked but that's about it.

    Except weaver which is arguably top tier for sidepoint 1v1s.

    People are definitely sleeping on condi weaver, but I wouldn't call it obvious top tier the way Firebrand+Scourge+Herald are for MATS, and Spellbreaker+Holo+Scrapper+Soulbeast+Herald are for ranked.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Nezekan.2671Nezekan.2671 Member ✭✭✭

    This game can no longer afford complete nerfs. The player base is already dying. A lot of people left the game when Mesmer was nerfed to the ground across the board in all modes in 2018. People who played Chrono since HoT were very disappointed and it decimated Mesmer playerbase. They will not repeat that mistake again.

  • DoomNexus.5324DoomNexus.5324 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Ryan.9387 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
    No nerfs to scourge.. kitten Anet?

    Outside of adding a 1s global cooldown between shade skills I actually can't imagine any nerfs necromancer specifically needs. It's exceptionally strong in the right circumstances but also very limited in it's role and what it can do with a very specific niche. That's how every build should be.

    So still FB + 2 scourge every game. This patch won’t change a thing. Except we will see more eles. And how are buffs to guardians needed?? Are they even playing this game mode. Last nail in the coffin I’m afraid.

    Idk. I've played 100 plat 1-2 games and while scourges and reapers on both teams aren't uncommmon Firebrands on either team feel very uncommon. People don't queue on Firebrand, even top tier PvPers, because playing Firebrand or dedicated support in general just makes you so dependent on everyone else on your team actually performing their roles. At this point Firebrand feels like an Automated Tournament only build.

    Yes, you are right. What I meant was that the meta won’t change. Also Buffing already strong classes won’t help the balance of this game..

    No top tier spec was specifically buffed. Firebrand+Scourge will remain strong in ranked but that's about it.

    Except weaver which is arguably top tier for sidepoint 1v1s.

    People are definitely sleeping on condi weaver, but I wouldn't call it obvious top tier the way Firebrand+Scourge+Herald are for MATS, and Spellbreaker+Holo+Scrapper+Soulbeast+Herald are for ranked.

    Well I also think (fire) weaver was already pretty strong atm so additional buffs, especially to burn, were really unnecessary and I'm kinda afraid of them now taking over as sidenoder tbh.

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:
    Revenant: This doesnt change anything important except maybe notoriety
    Theif: TRAPS?!?!?!?!?! WHO WANTED NEW TRAPS!?!?!??!?!?!

    Thief: I wanted new traps, the preps are looking really interesting tbh, especially outside of sPvP as, but also they improve 1v1 potential of thief, which I'd extremely appreciate. We'll see how they turn out, maybe they are also complete garbage just like traps.

    And Rev.. Are you kidding? Rev nerfs are huge. Notoriety got stack AND duration nerfed to almost a minimum, how much more do you want the trait to get crippled? So might uptime is probably reduced by about 30-40% or something. Especially since Rev has increased power buff from might this is a massive damage reduction to everything.
    Shackling Wave with Impossible Odds was the biggest single burst of Rev and even this didn't oneshot anything other than a thief maybe and now it got a 20% and 19% damage reduction respectively, on top of the lack of might damage boost. And this doesn't change anything important? What would you then say is important for Rev?
    I'd predict that Rev got straight up reduced to a +1 only class. Especially since unnerfed Holo, Mirage and Core Ranger are still around and probably more DH on the rise, it will be unplayble as a bruiser (1v1 or 1vX scenarios were already unfavorable for Rev anyway tho).

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:
    Mesmer: New chrono shatters? MORE SLOW???? BUFFS!?!?!?!??

    If you dont understand mesmer why you scream it was buffed? If anything thats a savage nerf. I hope you are right and chrono would be OP as you think :D

  • Falan.1839Falan.1839 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Holosmith hasn't received any serious nerfs since December of last year. All is right with the world.

    So halving Stab uptime on Corona Burst wasn't a serious nerf? Also Laser's Edge will probably get nerfed, even though it is hard to say without numbers. Right now it's a 15% dmg Buff that can be kept up fairly constantly (>50 heat). I assume will scale from 1-10% with the new system. And Eli X won't be a factor with the high cd anymore either.
    The nerfs on Holo aren't as hard as on Rev, but definitely harder than on War for example.

    Overall it's a job half done as always. Nerfs on Rev and Slb are on point. Scrapper probably aswell, even though it lacks too many numbers to make a judgement.
    Rampage and Warr in general got off too easy. On Mes CI was not dealt with. Holo got off fairly good aswell, even though some of the bugfixes and nerfs are significant, but it's a moderate nerf. Weaver might be a problem after the patch, but I don't really know enough about it to judge how the trait revamps are turning out. Daggerstorm Nerf on thief is fine, but giving portal was unnecessary.

    "When you say it's gonna happen "now"
    When exactly do you mean?
    See I've already waited too long
    And all my hope is gone"
    The Smiths about Balance and PvP content

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    tbh I already figured that CI Mirage wouldnt get adressed this patch.
    Not because it doesn't need nerfs (cause it does) but simply because the build had it's "debut" quite recently.

    If you look back more than ~2 weeks nobody even knew it was an issue.

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    Looks like a lot of nerfs to bursty specs and a lot of buffs to tanky specs with a lot of other buffs that may make other tanky builds become meta. I'm not a rev expert, but I expect that they will overall benefit from this patch a lot since they rely on having a support build with them and won't have much competition from other burst builds.

    Dragonhunter is the only other damage build that may be improved as well since they got some small direct buffs along with some big indirect buffs from the Soulbeast unblockable nerfs.

    I'll reserve my opinion until I see what actually comes from all of the big reworks, but if we do end up with a tanky meta, I'll be disappointed since that just leads to really boring and frustrating games with people that just never die.

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dahkeus.8243 said:

    I'll reserve my opinion until I see what actually comes from all of the big reworks, but if we do end up with a tanky meta, I'll be disappointed since that just leads to really boring and frustrating games with people that just never die.

    Not sure what merit that statement has.
    Bunker scrapper got nerfed, chrono bunker got nerfed, weaver essentially only dmg buffs.

    Overall dmg from the prominent burst classes got nerfed (soulbeast and herald) so Firebrand prolly will have an easier time.
    But other than that I don't see a bunker meta emerging, since the sidenoders will just be as susceptible to +1s as before.
    But maybe im just talking BS here ....I dunno

  • Sampson.2403Sampson.2403 Member ✭✭✭

    Impossible odds movement speed reduction is lame

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Soul eater should heal in shroud only

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zenix.6198 said:

    @Dahkeus.8243 said:

    I'll reserve my opinion until I see what actually comes from all of the big reworks, but if we do end up with a tanky meta, I'll be disappointed since that just leads to really boring and frustrating games with people that just never die.

    Not sure what merit that statement has.
    Bunker scrapper got nerfed, chrono bunker got nerfed, weaver essentially only dmg buffs.

    Overall dmg from the prominent burst classes got nerfed (soulbeast and herald) so Firebrand prolly will have an easier time.
    But other than that I don't see a bunker meta emerging, since the sidenoders will just be as susceptible to +1s as before.
    But maybe im just talking BS here ....I dunno

    It may not be a bunker meta, per say, since a lot of the changes weren't necessarily towards big fight bunker specs, but there were still a lot of buffs to support utility and damage reduction.

    Bunker scrapper got some nerfs, but also a huge buff from Function gyro. Not sure why any buffs/nerfs to chrono bunker would matter.

    Tempest and Thief are probably the wild cards though. I don't know ele enough to know whether the Tempest stuff will matter much for PvP, but the buff to overloads certainly makes water overloads a pretty massive heal. If thief ends up getting any support builds, they'll almost certainly be completely obnoxious as they always are, even though they've never been meta.

  • @Dahkeus.8243 said:

    @Zenix.6198 said:

    @Dahkeus.8243 said:

    I'll reserve my opinion until I see what actually comes from all of the big reworks, but if we do end up with a tanky meta, I'll be disappointed since that just leads to really boring and frustrating games with people that just never die.

    Not sure what merit that statement has.
    Bunker scrapper got nerfed, chrono bunker got nerfed, weaver essentially only dmg buffs.

    Overall dmg from the prominent burst classes got nerfed (soulbeast and herald) so Firebrand prolly will have an easier time.
    But other than that I don't see a bunker meta emerging, since the sidenoders will just be as susceptible to +1s as before.
    But maybe im just talking BS here ....I dunno

    It may not be a bunker meta, per say, since a lot of the changes weren't necessarily towards big fight bunker specs, but there were still a lot of buffs to support utility and damage reduction.

    Bunker scrapper got some nerfs, but also a huge buff from Function gyro. Not sure why any buffs/nerfs to chrono bunker would matter.

    Tempest and Thief are probably the wild cards though. I don't know ele enough to know whether the Tempest stuff will matter much for PvP, but the buff to overloads certainly makes water overloads a pretty massive heal. If thief ends up getting any support builds, they'll almost certainly be completely obnoxious as they always are, even though they've never been meta.

    For ele, they are nominal changes. Most of the changes are okay for tempest. But nothing of major impact.

    Thief however is a different story...defined run a wild card. I predict Deadeyes with shadow portals. But there may be some really cool kitten with shadow arts that could come into the gold as well. Daredevil still dead tho until swipe gets reverted.

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Things are moving in the right direction.

    Now that scrapper and chronomancer have profession mechanic tradeoffs, there's just 2 more left to do:

    • Mirage shatters still transfer from core mesmer. It would be interesting to tie one or more shatters to the ambush mechanic. For example:

      • F1 : Applies torment on enemies that were moving when hit by the clones on top of its usual damage. Quite longer recharge, but has its recharge reduced by several seconds every time you hit an enemy with an Ambush.
      • F2 : Confusion duration scales with distance between the mirage and the target, with longer confusion the closer the mirage is to the target. Same duration as core mesmer at 600 units.
      • F3 : Dazed reduced to just 0.25s, but it also cripples. If 3 clones shatter against the same target, it also immobilizes.
      • F4 : Shorter distortion than core (core distortion would be increased to 2s), but swaps places with a clone when used.
    • Core ranger needs an F5 so it gets traded by elites. I'd go with something like one of these:

      • F5 causes a tag-team pet attack. The alternate pet enters, both pets do their F2 at the same time, and they swap.
      • F5 causes the alternate pet to join in the fight for a bit. While this effect is active F4 is disabled, F5 becomes that pet's F2 attack, and F1 and F3 work on both pets. When the effect ends, pet swap goes on recharge for 15s.
      • F5 makes the pet invulnerable for a few seconds.
      • F5 gives more control over your pet. While toggled on:
        • F1 becomes ground-targeted allowing you to target where your pet moves exactly
        • F2 becomes unblockable, but takes 25% longer to recharge.
        • F3 makes your pet dodgeroll (or just evade if its model can't dodgeroll) and move behind its target.
        • F4 makes your swapped in pet spawn right at the target's location rather than next to you.

    Once tradeoffs are done, it'd be time to have a look at stealth and combo finishers and rework them to address their issues.

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Dahkeus.8243 said:

    @Zenix.6198 said:

    @Dahkeus.8243 said:

    I'll reserve my opinion until I see what actually comes from all of the big reworks, but if we do end up with a tanky meta, I'll be disappointed since that just leads to really boring and frustrating games with people that just never die.

    Not sure what merit that statement has.
    Bunker scrapper got nerfed, chrono bunker got nerfed, weaver essentially only dmg buffs.

    Overall dmg from the prominent burst classes got nerfed (soulbeast and herald) so Firebrand prolly will have an easier time.
    But other than that I don't see a bunker meta emerging, since the sidenoders will just be as susceptible to +1s as before.
    But maybe im just talking BS here ....I dunno

    It may not be a bunker meta, per say, since a lot of the changes weren't necessarily towards big fight bunker specs, but there were still a lot of buffs to support utility and damage reduction.

    Bunker scrapper got some nerfs, but also a huge buff from Function gyro. Not sure why any buffs/nerfs to chrono bunker would matter.

    Tempest and Thief are probably the wild cards though. I don't know ele enough to know whether the Tempest stuff will matter much for PvP, but the buff to overloads certainly makes water overloads a pretty massive heal. If thief ends up getting any support builds, they'll almost certainly be completely obnoxious as they always are, even though they've never been meta.

    For ele, they are nominal changes. Most of the changes are okay for tempest. But nothing of major impact.

    Thief however is a different story...defined run a wild card. I predict Deadeyes with shadow portals. But there may be some really cool kitten with shadow arts that could come into the gold as well. Daredevil still dead tho until swipe gets reverted.

    Yea, thief could definitely be wild. I mean, will we see D/P come back as DA/Tr/SA? Will the Shadow Savior trait be good enough that it makes it ideal for sword builds? I doubt it would replace a trait line in the meta S/D build, but maybe a S/P build would be viable? If Flickering Shadows doesn't have an internal cooldown, will people abuse it for a Thief bunker build or sorts?

  • ZhouX.8742ZhouX.8742 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Ryan.9387 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
    No nerfs to scourge.. kitten Anet?

    Outside of adding a 1s global cooldown between shade skills I actually can't imagine any nerfs necromancer specifically needs. It's exceptionally strong in the right circumstances but also very limited in it's role and what it can do with a very specific niche. That's how every build should be.

    So still FB + 2 scourge every game. This patch won’t change a thing. Except we will see more eles. And how are buffs to guardians needed?? Are they even playing this game mode. Last nail in the coffin I’m afraid.

    Idk. I've played 100 plat 1-2 games and while scourges and reapers on both teams aren't uncommmon Firebrands on either team feel very uncommon. People don't queue on Firebrand, even top tier PvPers, because playing Firebrand or dedicated support in general just makes you so dependent on everyone else on your team actually performing their roles. At this point Firebrand feels like an Automated Tournament only build.

    Yes, you are right. What I meant was that the meta won’t change. Also Buffing already strong classes won’t help the balance of this game..

    No top tier spec was specifically buffed. Firebrand+Scourge will remain strong in ranked but that's about it.

    Except weaver which is arguably top tier for sidepoint 1v1s.

    People are definitely sleeping on condi weaver, but I wouldn't call it obvious top tier the way Firebrand+Scourge+Herald are for MATS, and Spellbreaker+Holo+Scrapper+Soulbeast+Herald are for ranked.

    If you think you're going to see soulbeast after destroying it basically without giving anything back , then you're mistaken. It's pretty much out of meta at this point and will only provide super super niche roles aka no longer a meta option.

    Holo got significant nerfs as well, I just don't think it'll be that good

    This alone makes weaver much better in positions than it used to be, on top of the buffs it received for duelist weaver - I guarantee you it'll be an option now.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    I think appreciation is a very strong word. I will say the changes do not absolutely suck, but good? Nope.

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
    Guardian/DH did not need buffs imo. The most popular classes need to be catered to keep people playing the game I guess..

    ?! I mean if you say FB, I agree. Core guardian, DH? Dude, get out of G1.

    @Ryan.9387 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
    No nerfs to scourge.. kitten Anet?

    Outside of adding a 1s global cooldown between shade skills I actually can't imagine any nerfs necromancer specifically needs. It's exceptionally strong in the right circumstances but also very limited in it's role and what it can do with a very specific niche. That's how every build should be.

    So still FB + 2 scourge every game. This patch won’t change a thing. Except we will see more eles. And how are buffs to guardians needed?? Are they even playing this game mode. Last nail in the coffin I’m afraid.

    Idk. I've played 100 plat 1-2 games and while scourges and reapers on both teams aren't uncommmon Firebrands on either team feel very uncommon. People don't queue on Firebrand, even top tier PvPers, because playing Firebrand or dedicated support in general just makes you so dependent on everyone else on your team actually performing their roles. At this point Firebrand feels like an Automated Tournament only build.

    Yes, you are right. What I meant was that the meta won’t change. Also Buffing already strong classes won’t help the balance of this game..

    No top tier spec was specifically buffed. Firebrand+Scourge will remain strong in ranked but that's about it.

    Except weaver which is arguably top tier for sidepoint 1v1s.

    Is it though? SB, sage FB, boon beast, CI mirage, holo and scrapper can all win solo against weaver, assuming equal skill level.

  • @Falan.1839 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Holosmith hasn't received any serious nerfs since December of last year. All is right with the world.

    So halving Stab uptime on Corona Burst wasn't a serious nerf? Also Laser's Edge will probably get nerfed, even though it is hard to say without numbers. Right now it's a 15% dmg Buff that can be kept up fairly constantly (>50 heat). I assume will scale from 1-10% with the new system. And Eli X won't be a factor with the high cd anymore either.
    The nerfs on Holo aren't as hard as on Rev, but definitely harder than on War for example.

    Holo actually got straight buffed. Elixir X's CD wasn't increased, it was just normalized between gamemodes. It's always been 105s, 86s with HGH. If Laser's Edge scales up to 50% with the enhanced capacity trait, it's safe to say that's also a straight multiplicative damage buff to Holo, because adding 50 extra heat wouldn't scale it to a maximum of 50%. Not consistently anyway.

    Don't even play around and say Holo got hit harder than Warrior. Rampage for anyone playing Defense Warrior is 120s now, 96 for anyone playing Strength. To compensate Rampage was given a 50% damage reduction in general, but with Elixir X Holo and Engie have Rampage on a shorter CD and at a longer duration than even Strength Warrior does.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • Ryan.9387Ryan.9387 Member ✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:
    I think appreciation is a very strong word. I will say the changes do not absolutely suck, but good? Nope.

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
    Guardian/DH did not need buffs imo. The most popular classes need to be catered to keep people playing the game I guess..

    ?! I mean if you say FB, I agree. Core guardian, DH? Dude, get out of G1.

    @Ryan.9387 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
    No nerfs to scourge.. kitten Anet?

    Outside of adding a 1s global cooldown between shade skills I actually can't imagine any nerfs necromancer specifically needs. It's exceptionally strong in the right circumstances but also very limited in it's role and what it can do with a very specific niche. That's how every build should be.

    So still FB + 2 scourge every game. This patch won’t change a thing. Except we will see more eles. And how are buffs to guardians needed?? Are they even playing this game mode. Last nail in the coffin I’m afraid.

    Idk. I've played 100 plat 1-2 games and while scourges and reapers on both teams aren't uncommmon Firebrands on either team feel very uncommon. People don't queue on Firebrand, even top tier PvPers, because playing Firebrand or dedicated support in general just makes you so dependent on everyone else on your team actually performing their roles. At this point Firebrand feels like an Automated Tournament only build.

    Yes, you are right. What I meant was that the meta won’t change. Also Buffing already strong classes won’t help the balance of this game..

    No top tier spec was specifically buffed. Firebrand+Scourge will remain strong in ranked but that's about it.

    Except weaver which is arguably top tier for sidepoint 1v1s.

    Is it though? SB, sage FB, boon beast, CI mirage, holo and scrapper can all win solo against weaver, assuming equal skill level.

    There is very little weaver talent in pvp atm, so the strength of the class isn't really apparent atm.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Ryan.9387 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    I think appreciation is a very strong word. I will say the changes do not absolutely suck, but good? Nope.

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
    Guardian/DH did not need buffs imo. The most popular classes need to be catered to keep people playing the game I guess..

    ?! I mean if you say FB, I agree. Core guardian, DH? Dude, get out of G1.

    @Ryan.9387 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
    No nerfs to scourge.. kitten Anet?

    Outside of adding a 1s global cooldown between shade skills I actually can't imagine any nerfs necromancer specifically needs. It's exceptionally strong in the right circumstances but also very limited in it's role and what it can do with a very specific niche. That's how every build should be.

    So still FB + 2 scourge every game. This patch won’t change a thing. Except we will see more eles. And how are buffs to guardians needed?? Are they even playing this game mode. Last nail in the coffin I’m afraid.

    Idk. I've played 100 plat 1-2 games and while scourges and reapers on both teams aren't uncommmon Firebrands on either team feel very uncommon. People don't queue on Firebrand, even top tier PvPers, because playing Firebrand or dedicated support in general just makes you so dependent on everyone else on your team actually performing their roles. At this point Firebrand feels like an Automated Tournament only build.

    Yes, you are right. What I meant was that the meta won’t change. Also Buffing already strong classes won’t help the balance of this game..

    No top tier spec was specifically buffed. Firebrand+Scourge will remain strong in ranked but that's about it.

    Except weaver which is arguably top tier for sidepoint 1v1s.

    Is it though? SB, sage FB, boon beast, CI mirage, holo and scrapper can all win solo against weaver, assuming equal skill level.

    There is very little weaver talent in pvp atm, so the strength of the class isn't really apparent atm.

    Why do u think there's little weaver talent? Is there a reason that there isn't?
    Genuinely asking. Just with how people are usually doesn't take them long to find strong builds in classes and ways to exploit them lol ud think there would be a ton of ele's around if there as strong as some of these threads point them to be. Again I'm not saying they arnt just makin a statement lol

  • Ryan.9387Ryan.9387 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Ryan.9387 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    I think appreciation is a very strong word. I will say the changes do not absolutely suck, but good? Nope.

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
    Guardian/DH did not need buffs imo. The most popular classes need to be catered to keep people playing the game I guess..

    ?! I mean if you say FB, I agree. Core guardian, DH? Dude, get out of G1.

    @Ryan.9387 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
    No nerfs to scourge.. kitten Anet?

    Outside of adding a 1s global cooldown between shade skills I actually can't imagine any nerfs necromancer specifically needs. It's exceptionally strong in the right circumstances but also very limited in it's role and what it can do with a very specific niche. That's how every build should be.

    So still FB + 2 scourge every game. This patch won’t change a thing. Except we will see more eles. And how are buffs to guardians needed?? Are they even playing this game mode. Last nail in the coffin I’m afraid.

    Idk. I've played 100 plat 1-2 games and while scourges and reapers on both teams aren't uncommmon Firebrands on either team feel very uncommon. People don't queue on Firebrand, even top tier PvPers, because playing Firebrand or dedicated support in general just makes you so dependent on everyone else on your team actually performing their roles. At this point Firebrand feels like an Automated Tournament only build.

    Yes, you are right. What I meant was that the meta won’t change. Also Buffing already strong classes won’t help the balance of this game..

    No top tier spec was specifically buffed. Firebrand+Scourge will remain strong in ranked but that's about it.

    Except weaver which is arguably top tier for sidepoint 1v1s.

    Is it though? SB, sage FB, boon beast, CI mirage, holo and scrapper can all win solo against weaver, assuming equal skill level.

    There is very little weaver talent in pvp atm, so the strength of the class isn't really apparent atm.

    Why do u think there's little weaver talent? Is there a reason that there isn't?
    Genuinely asking. Just with how people are usually doesn't take them long to find strong builds in classes and ways to exploit them lol ud think there would be a ton of ele's around if there as strong as some of these threads point them to be. Again I'm not saying they arnt just makin a statement lol

    Same reason why there is only one good deadeye in na.

  • toxic.3648toxic.3648 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Why do u think there's little weaver talent? Is there a reason that there isn't?
    Genuinely asking. Just with how people are usually doesn't take them long to find strong builds in classes and ways to exploit them lol ud think there would be a ton of ele's around if there as strong as some of these threads point them to be. Again I'm not saying they arnt just makin a statement lol

    since weaver is the single most complex class to play i guess. noone gonna bother learn a class like weaver when they can run warrior, press rampage and get ez wins instead of memorizing cd's , attunements, when to swap to what, predict when to heal 5 sec b4 u actually need it. stuff like that.
    only class i think comes close is 4 kit core engi and i dare say that even that is easier to learn altho less impactfull since its lacking behind the powercreep

    Toxicity Pengu to the rescue /o/

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @McPero.3287 said:
    Also garbage balance patch, stuff getting buffed instead of everything getting nerfed in terms of damage, boons and healing.

    Agree, they push powercreen further and further instead of nerfs. Im afraid they think everything is fine...

  • Sampson.2403Sampson.2403 Member ✭✭✭

    I've only been around for a year in a half, but ever since I started coming here, the general perception has been negative.

    Were these forums ever a happy place? Like when the game was new? =)

  • Mikkel.8427Mikkel.8427 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sampson.2403 said:
    I've only been around for a year in a half, but ever since I started coming here, the general perception has been negative.

    Were these forums ever a happy place? Like when the game was new? =)

    Nope.

    The majority of posts are from angry/bitter people. Most people that are happy with the game are PLAYING it instead of complaining on the forums.

    There are a handful of intelligent, skilled and/or knowledgeable individuals that post here, though. You just need to get used to ignoring the outrage and try focusing/contributing to the constructive posts.

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

    @Falan.1839 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Holosmith hasn't received any serious nerfs since December of last year. All is right with the world.

    So halving Stab uptime on Corona Burst wasn't a serious nerf? Also Laser's Edge will probably get nerfed, even though it is hard to say without numbers. Right now it's a 15% dmg Buff that can be kept up fairly constantly (>50 heat). I assume will scale from 1-10% with the new system. And Eli X won't be a factor with the high cd anymore either.
    The nerfs on Holo aren't as hard as on Rev, but definitely harder than on War for example.

    Holo actually got straight buffed. Elixir X's CD wasn't increased, it was just normalized between gamemodes. It's always been 105s, 86s with HGH. If Laser's Edge scales up to 50% with the enhanced capacity trait, it's safe to say that's also a straight multiplicative damage buff to Holo, because adding 50 extra heat wouldn't scale it to a maximum of 50%. Not consistently anyway.

    Why would you assume that laser's edge will scale for 50% ?
    It will just be like 1% extra damage per 5 heat over 50.

    a dynamic 50% scaling dmg modifier would be absolutely ludicrious.

  • @Zenix.6198 said:
    Why would you assume that laser's edge will scale for 50% ?
    It will just be like 1% extra damage per 5 heat over 50.

    a dynamic 50% scaling dmg modifier would be absolutely ludicrious.

    You know how it is. It's hard to trust these balance patches.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • toxic.3648toxic.3648 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2019

    @McPero.3287 said:

    @toxic.3648 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Why do u think there's little weaver talent? Is there a reason that there isn't?
    Genuinely asking. Just with how people are usually doesn't take them long to find strong builds in classes and ways to exploit them lol ud think there would be a ton of ele's around if there as strong as some of these threads point them to be. Again I'm not saying they arnt just makin a statement lol

    since weaver is the single most complex class to play i guess. noone gonna bother learn a class like weaver when they can run warrior, press rampage and get ez wins instead of memorizing cd's , attunements, when to swap to what, predict when to heal 5 sec b4 u actually need it. stuff like that.
    only class i think comes close is 4 kit core engi and i dare say that even that is easier to learn altho less impactfull since its lacking behind the powercreep

    Weaver is not the most complex class to play. I main weaver and I say that. Weaver is hard to get into at start but you soon realise there isn't much to it (low skill ceiling). As much as I hate mesmer I think its mechanically hardest profession to play perfectly (high skill ceiling) but on the other hand it's really easy to do well on it since it can spam every condition on you in a second while you are dazed and immobilised.

    Also garbage balance patch, stuff getting buffed instead of everything getting nerfed in terms of damage, boons and healing.
    @anet

    lol what, mes is the most mechanically complex class to play? are u for real or just trolling .__. iva mained mes for 2 years. theres nothing complex about it. weaver on the other hand , which ive played for half a year is way more complex. i dont have to anticipate my heal 5 sec b4 i need it on mes, on weaver tho i have to. dont get me started on the half/half attunement swap too. imho weaver isnt worth the effort put into it vs the reward u get in the end.

    every other class has it way easier, except for core engi which is unviable unless ure willing to put the time into the high risk no reward spec that it has become. complex or not

    edit: agree on the patch tho. this is so pathetic i got no idea how anet can think "its fine" . altho wanna see it in action b4 i reserve final judgement. notes dosnt bode well at all tho

    Toxicity Pengu to the rescue /o/

  • McPero.3287McPero.3287 Member ✭✭✭

    @toxic.3648 said:

    @McPero.3287 said:

    @toxic.3648 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Why do u think there's little weaver talent? Is there a reason that there isn't?
    Genuinely asking. Just with how people are usually doesn't take them long to find strong builds in classes and ways to exploit them lol ud think there would be a ton of ele's around if there as strong as some of these threads point them to be. Again I'm not saying they arnt just makin a statement lol

    since weaver is the single most complex class to play i guess. noone gonna bother learn a class like weaver when they can run warrior, press rampage and get ez wins instead of memorizing cd's , attunements, when to swap to what, predict when to heal 5 sec b4 u actually need it. stuff like that.
    only class i think comes close is 4 kit core engi and i dare say that even that is easier to learn altho less impactfull since its lacking behind the powercreep

    Weaver is not the most complex class to play. I main weaver and I say that. Weaver is hard to get into at start but you soon realise there isn't much to it (low skill ceiling). As much as I hate mesmer I think its mechanically hardest profession to play perfectly (high skill ceiling) but on the other hand it's really easy to do well on it since it can spam every condition on you in a second while you are dazed and immobilised.

    Also garbage balance patch, stuff getting buffed instead of everything getting nerfed in terms of damage, boons and healing.
    @anet

    lol what, mes is the most mechanically complex class to play? are u for real or just trolling .__. iva mained mes for 2 years. theres nothing complex about it. weaver on the other hand , which ive played for half a year is way more complex. i dont have to anticipate my heal 5 sec b4 i need it on mes, on weaver tho i have to. dont get me started on the half/half attunement swap too. imho weaver isnt worth the effort put into it vs the reward u get in the end.

    every other class has it way easier, except for core engi which is unviable unless ure willing to put the time into the high risk no reward spec that it has become. complex or not

    edit: agree on the patch tho. this is so pathetic i got no idea how anet can think "its fine" . altho wanna see it in action b4 i reserve final judgement. notes dosnt bode well at all tho

    Probably haven't played power mirage then.

  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 14, 2019

    @Nezekan.2671 said:
    This game can no longer afford complete nerfs. The player base is already dying. A lot of people left the game when Mesmer was nerfed to the ground across the board in all modes in 2018. People who played Chrono since HoT were very disappointed and it decimated Mesmer playerbase. They will not repeat that mistake again.

    That's exactly what happened to me. I was a thief main.. they slowly destroyed the class. I re-rolled to mesmer.. just to get destroyed again. And now barely playing but still checking on balance notes every 3-4months.. and now i see these chrono changes?!?!.. That's the last drop of patience for me. I really think Anet should be very careful with these balance patches these days. It's not pre-HoT or even HoT days when they had good population and could afford some sloppy dev work. With this population if you keep nerfing classes further it's inevitable to see your playerbase leave your game. At this point im thinkin "Should i re-roll again and give it a go to let's say holo? But whats the point. The class that i would re-roll to most likely will be nerfed too. And why in the first place should i be forced to play a class that i don't even enjoy?!" It really feels like a game of crippled professions with disabilities and scars. At first they make classes OP (to sell expansions). Then as the time goes on they turn em into a war veterans sitting in wheelchairs. Mind boggling. How are they not afraid to hurt their own game so much?

    Thief: But i'm teef. We were supposed to be strong and cool and quick and deadly u know?
    Anet: Hold my beer. Imma steal your glory and bury u for good now.
    Thief: Wut the....?!

  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 14, 2019

    @Sampson.2403 said:
    I've only been around for a year in a half, but ever since I started coming here, the general perception has been negative.

    Were these forums ever a happy place? Like when the game was new? =)

    Community is the reflection of the games state. Yes forums had a very different face back in pre-HoT days. These days we got lots of salt and cynicism and disbelief and mistrust and exhaustion in here.

    File:Exhaustion.png

    Thief: But i'm teef. We were supposed to be strong and cool and quick and deadly u know?
    Anet: Hold my beer. Imma steal your glory and bury u for good now.
    Thief: Wut the....?!

  • You shall not play druid ever again in pvp

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