Another Patch, Another Nerf Necromancers. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Another Patch, Another Nerf Necromancers.

Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

"all in order to make the choice of an elite specialization more meaningful." - Reducing effectiveness of reaper survivability, while buffing core necromancer, the only "meaningful" thing I see here is choosing an elite spec is becoming more of a hinderance. No scourge changes, No Life steal reworks, Reaper Nerfs, No Staff or Focus tweaks.

What is the point in choosing an Elite Spec if they just Nerf it to hell and buff core?

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Comments

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    They should have said the truth: "all in order to kill any build diversity"
    We don't want people to do well in PvP modes without pof. So get your freaking money out and buy pof

    It's so stupid how every patch in recent "balances" have Just Given necromancers something to hope for, then Removed it just as fast, while leaving Other builds that do WAY too much on other professions fine, ALSO - Thief is getting portal ( one way portal), and That is STILL better than the "Poor excuse of a portal" Sand swell is scourges get. Based on wording so we'll have to see, Thieves get one direction portal that does not require Line of sight or valid path, Scourge requires both and limited to 900 range.

  • Vlad.4513Vlad.4513 Member ✭✭

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    They should have said the truth: "all in order to kill any build diversity"
    We don't want people to do well in PvP modes without pof. So get your freaking money out and buy pof

    It's so stupid how every patch in recent "balances" have Just Given necromancers something to hope for, then Removed it just as fast, while leaving Other builds that do WAY too much on other professions fine, ALSO - Thief is getting portal ( one way portal), and That is STILL better than the "Poor excuse of a portal" Sand swell is scourges get. Based on wording so we'll have to see, Thieves get one direction portal that does not require Line of sight or valid path, Scourge requires both and limited to 900 range.

    Ehh they nerf some overperforming builds of other professions so no they don't leave other builds like that, not all of them at least.

    With that being said I do think they kitten suck at balancing... reaper needs QoL buffs :'(

  • Vlad.4513Vlad.4513 Member ✭✭

    They buffed core Necro though :'D

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vlad.4513 said:
    They buffed core Necro though :'D

    Yes, meaning it is meaningful to choose an elite spec over core because you lose effects.

  • KidRoleplay.3615KidRoleplay.3615 Member ✭✭✭

    Iunno. Reaper still seems fine to me. Not gonna lie. They say the healing in shroud was not intended which I believe because it's always been that way for Arena.net, so subtracting that still makes it such that the previous patch's buffs are still in play for the most part.

  • dceptaconroy.7928dceptaconroy.7928 Member ✭✭✭

    Pls link..any thread, any post that indicated Soul Eater was OP. Where who what where. I, honestly like warhorn changes have no idea this was as massive an issue enough to require this complete delete rather than even dumbing down of the healing. How about, 'you can now receive healing by allies'. No trade off no sustain/defenses added.

  • KidRoleplay.3615KidRoleplay.3615 Member ✭✭✭

    @dceptaconroy.7928 said:
    Pls link..any thread, any post that indicated Soul Eater was OP. Where who what where. I, honestly like warhorn changes have no idea this was as massive an issue enough to require this complete delete rather than even dumbing down of the healing. How about, 'you can now receive healing by allies'. No trade off no sustain/defenses added.

    Who are you talking to?

  • Tobias.8632Tobias.8632 Member ✭✭✭

    ESO has necromancers now and the devs treat them much better then GW2's devs do, abandon ship

  • dceptaconroy.7928dceptaconroy.7928 Member ✭✭✭

    @KidRoleplay.3615 said:

    @dceptaconroy.7928 said:
    Pls link..any thread, any post that indicated Soul Eater was OP. Where who what where. I, honestly like warhorn changes have no idea this was as massive an issue enough to require this complete delete rather than even dumbing down of the healing. How about, 'you can now receive healing by allies'. No trade off no sustain/defenses added.

    Who are you talking to?

    Anyone.

  • Morde.3158Morde.3158 Member ✭✭✭

    Sigh Why does anet do this to me

  • XECOR.2814XECOR.2814 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tobias.8632 said:
    ESO has necromancers now and the devs treat them much better then GW2's devs do, abandon ship

    Thanks for info. I was always sceptical about eso and its classes but if they have necromancers now ill gladly jump ship from this trash implementation of such a great concept.
    Punching bag that cant move or get healed, fake magician with 0 magic skills, just throws severed hands at people and toy level minions ai. Elite spec with devs laughing face to mock you, corrupt bot with no dynamics and pigeonholed role.

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @XECOR.2814 said:

    @Tobias.8632 said:
    ESO has necromancers now and the devs treat them much better then GW2's devs do, abandon ship

    Thanks for info. I was always sceptical about eso and its classes but if they have necromancers now ill gladly jump ship from this trash implementation of such a great concept.
    Punching bag that cant move or get healed, fake magician with 0 magic skills, just throws severed hands at people and toy level minions ai. Elite spec with devs laughing face to mock you, corrupt bot with no dynamics and pigeonholed role.

    necromancer with a bucket of hands

    BY THE POWER OF DARKNESS

    throws hands randomly

  • I'm happy with many of the changes to core Necro and excited to give them a try. I haven't been playing much lately ( the last time I was online was about a week ago I think ? ) but seeing these patch notes has made me want to hop on again.

    That said, I'm also a little disappointed compared to the changes many of the other professions got. It seems like the buffs to core are mostly cooldown reductions with a slight functionality change to Dark Path ( which I'm still on the fence about because I was one of the few people who loved Dark Path ) while most of the other professions had various significant reworks. I understand not every profession got huge buffs or reworks, but it certainly made me less happy about the buffs to core after seeing what everyone else was getting. Like at first it was "yay! love for core Necro hype!" then it was "oh... Can I have some more cool stuff too? Look what they got!"

    Either way I'm content, even if a little disappointed by comparison. But in regards to the Reaper nerf, I'm not nearly as bothered as everyone here seems to be. It's one trait... Soul Eater + Blighter's Boon was an insane amount of healing when cleaving mobs, granted it is a pretty significant reduction to offensive potential by not taking Reaper's Onslaught. Still, you could full heal yourself with a few swipes of the Shroud when using both of those traits and having no Healing Power. I don't think Soul Eater + Blighter's Boon was an OP combination, that isn't what I'm saying. I do however think it was very strong and although sustain potential will be reduced without the healing from Soul Eater, I don't think it's any reason to throw a fit as much as you guys are. It's literally one thing related to Reaper that got a nerf. Just be glad we're not Revenants because it looks like they got kneecapped pretty good.

    Reaper is and will remain strong in the right hands. I'm in no way concerned with the nerf because it was perfectly good before Soul Eater healed based on outgoing damage so it will be just fine going back to that.

    [Smut] [HUNT] [IH] | Necromancer, Engineer, Revenant | Anvil Rock | Diamond Legend
    "I'll take triumph over victory every time. If it isn't a challenge it isn't an accomplishment."

  • dceptaconroy.7928dceptaconroy.7928 Member ✭✭✭

    People throwing a fit aren't bothered about cleaving mobs, we could manage without blighters or soul eaters..thats just gravy. We're voicing it in regards to PVP. Until you understand the true benefit of it in that respect you wont get it. It was a fantastic way to keep us alive enough to not being simply insta-deleted. PVE no big issue correct, duking it out in the Arena, different story.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @dceptaconroy.7928 said:
    People throwing a fit aren't bothered about cleaving mobs, we could manage without blighters or soul eaters..thats just gravy. We're voicing it in regards to PVP. Until you understand the true benefit of it in that respect you wont get it. It was a fantastic way to keep us alive enough to not being simply insta-deleted. PVE no big issue correct, duking it out in the Arena, different story.

    i think soul eater was kinda OP (sorta) but the issue is that necro's defensive capabilities are jsust bad. i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • dceptaconroy.7928dceptaconroy.7928 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah derd let's see.

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Core Shroud still sucks though, by comparison. I'm not sure why people are acting like its gonna revolutionize it.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Core Shroud still sucks though, by comparison. I'm not sure why people are acting like its gonna revolutionize it.

    Agree; the changes merely add a tiny bit more utility to shroud in Core builds. Being in Death Shroud is still a dps loss. The cool down reductions mean DS utilities will be available a little more often. That is all. The shroud transform cool down is the same. No skills outside of shroud have changed. No core traits anyone cares about were changed, either.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @XECOR.2814 said:

    @Tobias.8632 said:
    ESO has necromancers now and the devs treat them much better then GW2's devs do, abandon ship

    Thanks for info. I was always sceptical about eso and its classes but if they have necromancers now ill gladly jump ship from this trash implementation of such a great concept.
    Punching bag that cant move or get healed, fake magician with 0 magic skills, just throws severed hands at people and toy level minions ai. Elite spec with devs laughing face to mock you, corrupt bot with no dynamics and pigeonholed role.

    You forgot: master of conditions while every other class can apply more (damaging) conditions, cleanse more conditions or convert them. Lul

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Core Shroud still sucks though, by comparison. I'm not sure why people are acting like its gonna revolutionize it.

    Agree; the changes merely add a tiny bit more utility to shroud in Core builds. Being in Death Shroud is still a dps loss. The cool down reductions mean DS utilities will be available a little more often. That is all. The shroud transform cool down is the same. No skills outside of shroud have changed. No core traits anyone cares about were changed, either.

    I dont think the core shroud sucks that bad.... it think its ok ish just too many other flaws along side it make core as a whole feel like its about 3 years behind everything else in the game. Core necro is still not as solid as say core mesmer, guardian, ranger, warrior, even ele perhaps. Until some trait reworks happen that make it so core will never be competitive on a end game level it has nothing to make it so in pve end game and nothing to make it terrifying in pvp. You can ideally just run circles around it and run over it provided you have at least a bit of condi clear.

    Its also oddly forced into a hybrid play style to make it function at its best instead of it allowing it to be either one separately as its own thing.
    If boon corrupts focused had a set priority on which boons get converted over others no matter how they were applied that would help necro a bunch in pvp but not in pve. its in a rough spot and i feel like no one on the balance team plays necro enough to really under stand how the majority of players who play it feel about its flaws and strengths. So they always pick the wrong things out when making changes to it. Occasionally they do something good by what seems like sheer luck.

    I wish every core class was like guardian. Core Guardian has to be the most balanced profession in the game imo. Its solid, strong, has ok ish sustain, can do big damage, can also die if you go glassy, its crafty but not over rewarded for any singular particular thing through its skills or traits.

  • @dceptaconroy.7928 said:
    People throwing a fit aren't bothered about cleaving mobs, we could manage without blighters or soul eaters..thats just gravy. We're voicing it in regards to PVP. Until you understand the true benefit of it in that respect you wont get it. It was a fantastic way to keep us alive enough to not being simply insta-deleted. PVE no big issue correct, duking it out in the Arena, different story.

    When I said "mobs" I was more or less referring to players in WvW. The healing return you could get with Soul Eater and Blighters Boon was absurd. It made it a very effective and easy to use mid/frontliner in WvW zergs. In small scale or in PvP for 1v1, it certainly helped but it wasn't a game changer to just use Soul Eater by itself. Using it with Blighter's Boon was a pretty big sustain buff even in 1v1's, but as I'd said about Reaper's Onslaught, not taking it is also a significant loss in offensive potential. Reaper Shroud is extremely slow, the Quickness from Reaper's Onslaught combined with the additional Ferocity are basically what make Reaper even usable in higher tiers/against skilled opponents.

    Yes this was a nerf, but only for low tier players.

    [Smut] [HUNT] [IH] | Necromancer, Engineer, Revenant | Anvil Rock | Diamond Legend
    "I'll take triumph over victory every time. If it isn't a challenge it isn't an accomplishment."

  • SpellOfIniquity.1780SpellOfIniquity.1780 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Core Shroud still sucks though, by comparison. I'm not sure why people are acting like its gonna revolutionize it.

    Agree; the changes merely add a tiny bit more utility to shroud in Core builds. Being in Death Shroud is still a dps loss. The cool down reductions mean DS utilities will be available a little more often. That is all. The shroud transform cool down is the same. No skills outside of shroud have changed. No core traits anyone cares about were changed, either.

    I dont think the core shroud sucks that bad.... it think its ok ish just too many other flaws along side it make core as a whole feel like its about 3 years behind everything else in the game. Core necro is still not as solid as say core mesmer, guardian, ranger, warrior, even ele perhaps. Until some trait reworks happen that make it so core will never be competitive on a end game level it has nothing to make it so in pve end game and nothing to make it terrifying in pvp. You can ideally just run circles around it and run over it provided you have at least a bit of condi clear.

    Its also oddly forced into a hybrid play style to make it function at its best instead of it allowing it to be either one separately as its own thing.
    If boon corrupts focused had a set priority on which boons get converted over others no matter how they were applied that would help necro a bunch in pvp but not in pve. its in a rough spot and i feel like no one on the balance team plays necro enough to really under stand how the majority of players who play it feel about its flaws and strengths. So they always pick the wrong things out when making changes to it. Occasionally they do something good by what seems like sheer luck.

    I wish every core class was like guardian. Core Guardian has to be the most balanced profession in the game imo. Its solid, strong, has ok ish sustain, can do big damage, can also die if you go glassy, its crafty but not over rewarded for any singular particular thing through its skills or traits.

    I think core Necro is doing okay, personally. Although I do feel that there are a lot of match ups that are difficult/impossible to win in an open field, I also feel that core is stronger than many give it credit for. Assuming you have terrain to play with, Life Blast can do a colossal amount of damage if built for it and everything a hybrid build can hit you with is pretty painful as well. That, as well as being naturally durable thanks to core Shroud not degrading as quickly as Reaper Shroud, and I think core Necro is doing alright.

    I prefer core over Reaper or Scourge and I've been a Necro main for many years. I do think it could use more adjustments but it also always bothers me when people speak of it as though it's the worst core spec there is or like it's impossible to win against a decent opponent. Shortly after PoF release was when it was at it's weakest because it was before many of the elite specs were toned down and certain Necro traits/skills hadn't been changed. Around that time was when I stopped playing Necro for quite a while because it was at a point where I was losing a lot more fights than I was winning regardless of how well I played. That was the only time in the 5 1/2 years and 5k hours I've been playing Necro that I actually gave up on it. So I'm just glad it's no where near the sorry state it was in then.

    Anyway I didn't mean to insult anyone about their concerns for Reaper or about their opinions on core so I hope it didn't come off that way. Some of the following comments, even if not responding directly to my own, made me feel I should be clear about that.

    [Smut] [HUNT] [IH] | Necromancer, Engineer, Revenant | Anvil Rock | Diamond Legend
    "I'll take triumph over victory every time. If it isn't a challenge it isn't an accomplishment."

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Core Shroud still sucks though, by comparison. I'm not sure why people are acting like its gonna revolutionize it.

    Agree; the changes merely add a tiny bit more utility to shroud in Core builds. Being in Death Shroud is still a dps loss. The cool down reductions mean DS utilities will be available a little more often. That is all. The shroud transform cool down is the same. No skills outside of shroud have changed. No core traits anyone cares about were changed, either.

    I dont think the core shroud sucks that bad.... it think its ok ish just too many other flaws along side it make core as a whole feel like its about 3 years behind everything else in the game. Core necro is still not as solid as say core mesmer, guardian, ranger, warrior, even ele perhaps. Until some trait reworks happen that make it so core will never be competitive on a end game level it has nothing to make it so in pve end game and nothing to make it terrifying in pvp. You can ideally just run circles around it and run over it provided you have at least a bit of condi clear.

    Its also oddly forced into a hybrid play style to make it function at its best instead of it allowing it to be either one separately as its own thing.
    If boon corrupts focused had a set priority on which boons get converted over others no matter how they were applied that would help necro a bunch in pvp but not in pve. its in a rough spot and i feel like no one on the balance team plays necro enough to really under stand how the majority of players who play it feel about its flaws and strengths. So they always pick the wrong things out when making changes to it. Occasionally they do something good by what seems like sheer luck.

    I wish every core class was like guardian. Core Guardian has to be the most balanced profession in the game imo. Its solid, strong, has ok ish sustain, can do big damage, can also die if you go glassy, its crafty but not over rewarded for any singular particular thing through its skills or traits.

    I think core Necro is doing okay, personally. Although I do feel that there are a lot of match ups that are difficult/impossible to win in an open field, I also feel that core is stronger than many give it credit for. Assuming you have terrain to play with, Life Blast can do a colossal amount of damage if built for it and everything a hybrid build can hit you with is pretty painful as well. That, as well as being naturally durable thanks to core Shroud not degrading as quickly as Reaper Shroud, and I think core Necro is doing alright.

    I agree that it can do damage but when matched up to other things the damage it does is not = to anets ideals. Necromancer is slow but more punishing. Life blast does a chunk of damage but its kinda slow. Other professions with faster play styles do just as much or more damage but are faster. This is kind of where i puzzle around anets ideals of why keep this kind of ideal if you dont capitalize on it properly. By technical standards imo life blast for example when built for raw damage should be punching a touch harder for as slow of an attack as it is.

    I prefer core over Reaper or Scourge and I've been a Necro main for many years. I do think it could use more adjustments but it also always bothers me when people speak of it as though it's the worst core spec there is or like it's impossible to win against a decent opponent. Shortly after PoF release was when it was at it's weakest because it was before many of the elite specs were toned down and certain Necro traits/skills hadn't been changed. Around that time was when I stopped playing Necro for quite a while because it was at a point where I was losing a lot more fights than I was winning regardless of how well I played. That was the only time in the 5 1/2 years and 5k hours I've been playing Necro that I actually gave up on it. So I'm just glad it's no where near the sorry state it was in then.

    I personally prefer core over scourge myself but reaper is a n enjoyable change of playstyle from mid range to melee. IF core was a bit more up to date (more viable for end game) i would probably play it more over reaper too.

    Anyway I didn't mean to insult anyone about their concerns for Reaper or about their opinions on core so I hope it didn't come off that way. Some of the following comments, even if not responding directly to my own, made me feel I should be clear about that.

    No insults at all here i dont think ;) no worries.

  • @ZDragon.3046 said:
    By technical standards imo life blast for example when built for raw damage should be punching a touch harder for as slow of an attack as it is.

    It can with Dread. I often play a full glass power build and while a target is Feared I can hit any where between 8 and 15k Life Blasts. Often times, even against more durable opponents, I can 2 - 3 shot them if I play my cards right. Sigil of Rending + multiple traits that apply Vulnerability on top of rapid Might generation and I can usually max out on Vuln stacks in just a few seconds, or with one interrupt, and Life Blast becomes a death cannon.

    [Smut] [HUNT] [IH] | Necromancer, Engineer, Revenant | Anvil Rock | Diamond Legend
    "I'll take triumph over victory every time. If it isn't a challenge it isn't an accomplishment."

  • Trollocks.5084Trollocks.5084 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tobias.8632 said:
    ESO has necromancers now and the devs treat them much better then GW2's devs do, abandon ship

    Yeah. I've got a couple amazon gift cards. Been thinking of moving to ESO. I'm pretty much done with GW2, Anet and their inability to actually think through what they're doing.

  • Ultramex.1506Ultramex.1506 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm more disappointed that it isn't "Nerfcromancers" in the title.

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:
    "all in order to make the choice of an elite specialization more meaningful." - Reducing effectiveness of reaper survivability, while buffing core necromancer, the only "meaningful" thing I see here is choosing an elite spec is becoming more of a hinderance. No scourge changes, No Life steal reworks, Reaper Nerfs, No Staff or Focus tweaks.

    What is the point in choosing an Elite Spec if they just Nerf it to hell and buff core?

    They only killed healing per attack while in shroud, but you can still get it outside of shroud. Keep in mind that while in shroud, reapers can deal massive amounts of damage, making them pretty darn durable with no tradeoff to damage. I think it's a healthy change.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • im not happy with this game anymore...they keep nerfing my favorite class...its time to move to ESO.

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    I'm happy with many of the changes to core Necro and excited to give them a try. I haven't been playing much lately ( the last time I was online was about a week ago I think ? ) but seeing these patch notes has made me want to hop on again.

    That said, I'm also a little disappointed compared to the changes many of the other professions got. It seems like the buffs to core are mostly cooldown reductions with a slight functionality change to Dark Path ( which I'm still on the fence about because I was one of the few people who loved Dark Path ) while most of the other professions had various significant reworks. I understand not every profession got huge buffs or reworks, but it certainly made me less happy about the buffs to core after seeing what everyone else was getting. Like at first it was "yay! love for core Necro hype!" then it was "oh... Can I have some more cool stuff too? Look what they got!"

    Either way I'm content, even if a little disappointed by comparison. But in regards to the Reaper nerf, I'm not nearly as bothered as everyone here seems to be. It's one trait... Soul Eater + Blighter's Boon was an insane amount of healing when cleaving mobs, granted it is a pretty significant reduction to offensive potential by not taking Reaper's Onslaught. Still, you could full heal yourself with a few swipes of the Shroud when using both of those traits and having no Healing Power. I don't think Soul Eater + Blighter's Boon was an OP combination, that isn't what I'm saying. I do however think it was very strong and although sustain potential will be reduced without the healing from Soul Eater, I don't think it's any reason to throw a fit as much as you guys are. It's literally one thing related to Reaper that got a nerf. Just be glad we're not Revenants because it looks like they got kneecapped pretty good.

    Reaper is and will remain strong in the right hands. I'm in no way concerned with the nerf because it was perfectly good before Soul Eater healed based on outgoing damage so it will be just fine going back to that.

    The reason(s) I have an issue with this, are as you mention taking blighter's boon/Soul eater is a dps loss, Necromancer overall does not have a lot of defensive abilities or traits, it's all rather Mild or Hindering, Like if a necromancer gets CCd, good luck doing anything before you die, sort of thing, or if you get chased, good luck escaping anything that has more than one movement skill, Removing something that could let Necromancer survive - also note this was ONLY within Melee range, Is a Horrible change that should be re-thought. Necromancers have never really been loved, they have a lifesteal mechanic while is extremely bad compared to GW1 lifesteal ( and revenant's Lifesteal is getting a 400% buff so Necromancers are even further left behind), the Removal of Hexes means Necromancers should be more about Conditions, However we get left with Bleed... Bleed and Poison, while you look at someone like Mesmer who gets torment and confusion, Which are MUCH stronger, then there's Renegade who gets bleeding and Piercing on the same skills, meaning more Bleeding at the same range, without Any self-hurting skills like blood is power.

    That and the fact that I haven't seen a GOOD Necromancer Skill Rework, Ever. Focus and Warhorn got gutted, and They removed the One reaper trait I loved after Hot dropped which was Chill dealing damage, It was Unique, it made necromancers Feel like condition masters as they made a normally non damaging condi Do damage, but no, they instead get a trait as a GRANDMASTER that is WEAKER than a core Revenant skill. ( 2 bleeds on chill vs 1 torment on chill, 1 torment does the same as one bleeding, and that is without moving, moving doubles it)

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:
    "all in order to make the choice of an elite specialization more meaningful." - Reducing effectiveness of reaper survivability, while buffing core necromancer, the only "meaningful" thing I see here is choosing an elite spec is becoming more of a hinderance. No scourge changes, No Life steal reworks, Reaper Nerfs, No Staff or Focus tweaks.

    What is the point in choosing an Elite Spec if they just Nerf it to hell and buff core?

    They only killed healing per attack while in shroud, but you can still get it outside of shroud. Keep in mind that while in shroud, reapers can deal massive amounts of damage, making them pretty darn durable with no tradeoff to damage. I think it's a healthy change.

    I would like to reply by stating, ( yes this is a snowcrows thing), Out of Shroud reaper does more damage than In shroud reaper past 50% health, so shroud is only useful in raids before 50%, If we then look at pvp, Reaper shroud is a melee focused shroud with No fast way to approach enemies as the leap is very slow in comparison to core shroud, In the patch notes this time, Soul Eater is being nerfed slightly by fixing a bug, or "bug", However the fact necromancers cannot be healed in shroud outside of Two specific traits and they do not heal a lot, If you get ccd in shroud ( which is very easy to be) and it gets burst down, you lost your healing, and Unlike raid bosses Players can evade attacks so your DPS will be bad aswell since your best DPS is melee range with No chasing.

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    I'm happy with many of the changes to core Necro and excited to give them a try. I haven't been playing much lately ( the last time I was online was about a week ago I think ? ) but seeing these patch notes has made me want to hop on again.

    That said, I'm also a little disappointed compared to the changes many of the other professions got. It seems like the buffs to core are mostly cooldown reductions with a slight functionality change to Dark Path ( which I'm still on the fence about because I was one of the few people who loved Dark Path ) while most of the other professions had various significant reworks. I understand not every profession got huge buffs or reworks, but it certainly made me less happy about the buffs to core after seeing what everyone else was getting. Like at first it was "yay! love for core Necro hype!" then it was "oh... Can I have some more cool stuff too? Look what they got!"

    Either way I'm content, even if a little disappointed by comparison. But in regards to the Reaper nerf, I'm not nearly as bothered as everyone here seems to be. It's one trait... Soul Eater + Blighter's Boon was an insane amount of healing when cleaving mobs, granted it is a pretty significant reduction to offensive potential by not taking Reaper's Onslaught. Still, you could full heal yourself with a few swipes of the Shroud when using both of those traits and having no Healing Power. I don't think Soul Eater + Blighter's Boon was an OP combination, that isn't what I'm saying. I do however think it was very strong and although sustain potential will be reduced without the healing from Soul Eater, I don't think it's any reason to throw a fit as much as you guys are. It's literally one thing related to Reaper that got a nerf. Just be glad we're not Revenants because it looks like they got kneecapped pretty good.

    Reaper is and will remain strong in the right hands. I'm in no way concerned with the nerf because it was perfectly good before Soul Eater healed based on outgoing damage so it will be just fine going back to that.

    The reason(s) I have an issue with this, are as you mention taking blighter's boon/Soul eater is a dps loss, Necromancer overall does not have a lot of defensive abilities or traits, it's all rather Mild or Hindering, Like if a necromancer gets CCd, good luck doing anything before you die, sort of thing, or if you get chased, good luck escaping anything that has more than one movement skill, Removing something that could let Necromancer survive - also note this was ONLY within Melee range, Is a Horrible change that should be re-thought. Necromancers have never really been loved, they have a lifesteal mechanic while is extremely bad compared to GW1 lifesteal ( and revenant's Lifesteal is getting a 400% buff so Necromancers are even further left behind), the Removal of Hexes means Necromancers should be more about Conditions, However we get left with Bleed... Bleed and Poison, while you look at someone like Mesmer who gets torment and confusion, Which are MUCH stronger, then there's Renegade who gets bleeding and Piercing on the same skills, meaning more Bleeding at the same range, without Any self-hurting skills like blood is power.

    That and the fact that I haven't seen a GOOD Necromancer Skill Rework, Ever. Focus and Warhorn got gutted, and They removed the One reaper trait I loved after Hot dropped which was Chill dealing damage, It was Unique, it made necromancers Feel like condition masters as they made a normally non damaging condi Do damage, but no, they instead get a trait as a GRANDMASTER that is WEAKER than a core Revenant skill. ( 2 bleeds on chill vs 1 torment on chill, 1 torment does the same as one bleeding, and that is without moving, moving doubles it)

    I loved that unique touch on chill damage too.
    Sad that it is now 1 bleed on chill 😐
    One of the worst or best balanced GM trait depending on how you see it.

    But let’s not give up on the chill Reaper!

    Visit 🏴‍☠️ Eremite's WvW Necromancy Graveyard 🏴‍☠️

    CD -> TC -> Mag -> GOM -> AR -> JQ

  • Sarrs.4831Sarrs.4831 Member ✭✭✭

    Chill Reaper's 100% viable in wvw tbh imo. I play Celestial Chill Reaper with axe/dagger and greatsword, master of corruption and CPC. Use stuff like the Dragon's Revelry Starcake and Sigil of the Stars to give you even more celestial stats, and Runes of Divinity for more and also a massive boost to your HP. With more than one Bloodlust and a fully stacked sigil you have a ludicrous amount of stats which'll make everything work together. Expertise is your only problem so add +exp wvw infusions to your gear and run a few pieces of whichever expertise spread you need; Viper's or Trailblazer's, depending on whether you need offense or defense.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:
    "all in order to make the choice of an elite specialization more meaningful." - Reducing effectiveness of reaper survivability, while buffing core necromancer, the only "meaningful" thing I see here is choosing an elite spec is becoming more of a hinderance. No scourge changes, No Life steal reworks, Reaper Nerfs, No Staff or Focus tweaks.

    What is the point in choosing an Elite Spec if they just Nerf it to hell and buff core?

    They only killed healing per attack while in shroud, but you can still get it outside of shroud. Keep in mind that while in shroud, reapers can deal massive amounts of damage, making them pretty darn durable with no tradeoff to damage. I think it's a healthy change.

    I would like to reply by stating, ( yes this is a snowcrows thing), Out of Shroud reaper does more damage than In shroud reaper past 50% health, so shroud is only useful in raids before 50%, If we then look at pvp, Reaper shroud is a melee focused shroud with No fast way to approach enemies as the leap is very slow in comparison to core shroud, In the patch notes this time, Soul Eater is being nerfed slightly by fixing a bug, or "bug", However the fact necromancers cannot be healed in shroud outside of Two specific traits and they do not heal a lot, If you get ccd in shroud ( which is very easy to be) and it gets burst down, you lost your healing, and Unlike raid bosses Players can evade attacks so your DPS will be bad aswell since your best DPS is melee range with No chasing.

    Well after the nerf i don't think anyone would want to bother with reaper in raid, the healer has to heal everyone and probably wouldn't want to wait the reaper to get out of shroud to heal everyone, so why bother with extra effort when you can get a berserker that does the same and can be healed with everyone else. I don't get why the "second life bar" is taken like is so great and even better than block.

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:
    "all in order to make the choice of an elite specialization more meaningful." - Reducing effectiveness of reaper survivability, while buffing core necromancer, the only "meaningful" thing I see here is choosing an elite spec is becoming more of a hinderance. No scourge changes, No Life steal reworks, Reaper Nerfs, No Staff or Focus tweaks.

    What is the point in choosing an Elite Spec if they just Nerf it to hell and buff core?

    They only killed healing per attack while in shroud, but you can still get it outside of shroud. Keep in mind that while in shroud, reapers can deal massive amounts of damage, making them pretty darn durable with no tradeoff to damage. I think it's a healthy change.

    I would like to reply by stating, ( yes this is a snowcrows thing), Out of Shroud reaper does more damage than In shroud reaper past 50% health, so shroud is only useful in raids before 50%, If we then look at pvp, Reaper shroud is a melee focused shroud with No fast way to approach enemies as the leap is very slow in comparison to core shroud, In the patch notes this time, Soul Eater is being nerfed slightly by fixing a bug, or "bug", However the fact necromancers cannot be healed in shroud outside of Two specific traits and they do not heal a lot, If you get ccd in shroud ( which is very easy to be) and it gets burst down, you lost your healing, and Unlike raid bosses Players can evade attacks so your DPS will be bad aswell since your best DPS is melee range with No chasing.

    Well after the nerf i don't think anyone would want to bother with reaper in raid, the healer has to heal everyone and probably wouldn't want to wait the reaper to get out of shroud to heal everyone, so why bother with extra effort when you can get a berserker that does the same and can be healed with everyone else. I don't get why the "second life bar" is taken like is so great and even better than block.

    Exactly, If they don't let you get healed while in shroud, at least let you heal yourself in shroud.

  • wickedkae.4980wickedkae.4980 Member ✭✭✭

    @Isaiah.2936 said:
    im not happy with this game anymore...they keep nerfing my favorite class...its time to move to ESO.

    I have putting in way more time with ESO lately since they added a real necro. Anet needs to figure out what a necro is and isn't. I can tell them right now, that the current implementations of ALL designs for this class are as far as a necro as you can get.

    My gem balance is zero and that is where it will stay

  • dceptaconroy.7928dceptaconroy.7928 Member ✭✭✭

    Best way to make an impression is playtime and money spent. Forums and posts aren't imperative. I dont remember the last time I've spent cash here other than the expansions/feelsgoodman. We have the power. Mwahahahaha necrolaugh.

  • KidRoleplay.3615KidRoleplay.3615 Member ✭✭✭

    @wickedkae.4980 said:

    @Isaiah.2936 said:
    im not happy with this game anymore...they keep nerfing my favorite class...its time to move to ESO.

    I have putting in way more time with ESO lately since they added a real necro. Anet needs to figure out what a necro is and isn't. I can tell them right now, that the current implementations of ALL designs for this class are as far as a necro as you can get.

    My gem balance is zero and that is where it will stay

    I mean, they definitely knew what a necro was in GW1.

  • Xxnecroxx.4039Xxnecroxx.4039 Member ✭✭✭

    you expect anything else from Anet? they hate necro and never want it to be viable in endgame PVE you are only allowed to be a boon corrupt bot and NOTHING ELSE at least that is the vibes I get from Anets balance team, best part is that core necro is not even that good to, so we got 2 not that good elite specs and a not so good core. GREAT JOB ANET, honestly I don't think there will be any saving for necro till MAYBE JUST MAYBE the next elite spec but that is hoping for a miracle

  • Xxnecroxx.4039Xxnecroxx.4039 Member ✭✭✭

    @Isaiah.2936 said:
    im not happy with this game anymore...they keep nerfing my favorite class...its time to move to ESO.

    they have been nerfing necro since the start it feels, every elite spec is a big buff and makes them viable! to then be nerfed over and over and over and over, repeating. there is a reason why I have not properly played the game for months now if anything I just log on to get updates and my daily logins, nothing else because of how they have treated necro

  • I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 19, 2019

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 19, 2019

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    I think someone in the Mesmer forum said it best, they are Killing all of the HOT specs so people will be forced to buy POF. I hope this isn't the case and they have a plan to fix this but it's looking more and more like that's exactly what they're doing.

    and then after everyone buys PoF THEN they bring out a new spec ( maybe why there is no expac between LS4 and LS5 ) and nerf PoF :P

    What are you even talking about. Reaper is plenty viable and has been buffed over and over again since PoF while scourge has been nerfed over and over again.

    In PvP solo queue, I would rather see Reaper or even core necro on my team than a scourge because of how reliant it is on support like FB. The only overwhelming strength of scourge is WvW blobbing and even there Reaper is plenty fine.

    I don’t want to disregard specific things for game modes, but there should be an equal usage of elite specs in all three game modes if it was well balanced, as in Reaper in PvE is a lot different to PvP reaper because of the thing you fight.

    That is and should not be possible unless you want to massively homogenize every single class. Some class/spec will be better or worse at different game modes because different game mode need different things. For example base thief is actually really good in PvP but useless in Raids because PvP has a lot more focus on mobility but PvE cares more about damage. This is never going to change because as you said the object you fight is different. I am perfectly fine with some specs be good at one mode but bad in others, because the alternative is homogenization.

    The issue however is the things are not balanced for multiple game modes, for example in PvE raiding, not being able to be healed in shroud means you either Lose dps above 50% health or you don't get healed, whereas in pvp it's fine as it's balanced there since you COULD in theory be a lot tankier than normal as players do not have the absurd amount of health as raid bosses.

    Is 90% health mate.

    I don't think you realized this but Reapers have been playing with this for a very very long time. Soul eater was just introduced 3 months ago. Did everybody just forget to play with decimate defense suddenly?

    When you are going to shroud, you should be doing an axe 2 while well of suffering and nightfall is ticking at the same time. Since soul eater still heals out of shroud, it would take a pretty lucky hit at the exact right moment for you to lose scholar. Hell if you want to remove that chance without a doubt, take the heal shout and use it before shroud. Do you know how much dps blood fiend do? 50-100.

    This is completely overblown. I have been player pretty much nothing but power reaper in my raids and the amount of times where I am forced to go into shroud with less than 90% hp can be count in one hand.

    In PvP you take decimate defense

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i'm just hoping next balance patch has an overhaul to necro's defensive abilities

    We are asking for proper/scaling defensive tools for Necro since literally 7 years, so don't get your hopes up.

    Also just did a Hero point run on Scrapper just now for fun, soloing all the difficult PoF and HoT HP's, testing the new Traits etc., and it's essentially immortal unless you get straight up oneshot. In Full Zerker that is.
    But yea, Reaper, which already actually had less sustain than Scourge, definitely needed a nerf. Especially one that in turn completely crippled it again in PvP.

    If you are seriously suggesting scrapper is better than reaper in overworld then I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of classes are immortal in zerker gear, the point is how much damage/burst you do while being invincible. Reaper by far has one of the best self damage in overworld that scrapper can't really compete.

    In PvP soul eater even prenerf was a niche choice at the most. Decimate Defense is meta still before and after the change. Just actually try to play PvP and you will see Reaper perform exactly the same as they did before in PvP.

    The issue is not “we didn't have it before so nothing changed” the issue is “we had it and it got removed”.

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