Upcoming Balance Patch - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Upcoming Balance Patch

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  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @James.1065 said:
    I honestly don't know what they based the decision on that reapers survivability was too high with soul eater healing in shroud.

    It's the squishiest class of all the melee professions and common knowledge to focus it first as an easy kill! Seriously kitten

    They have game metrics.

    10 players going to the forums or community sites saying "I fell like I'm squishier than I should be" can't have more weight than metrics clearly indicating they die less and lose less health on average than what they intended for the spec.

    Every skill you take. Every move you make. Every boon you get. Every step you take. They'll be watching you.

  • I would suggest to the OP to check engineer's sub forum to see what the actual engineers thing about the patch notes. The general feeling is a BIG nerf to scrapper.

    The removal from full FREE defensive sustain traits (like rapid regeneration) changed to "deal damage to sustain" traits mean that you need to actually DO damage to get barriers, and scrapper hammer have big issues reaching enemies to do it.

    So most engineers think that the scrapper sustain and rezhability will be worst than what is now (not juzguin if now is too much or not) just comparing before and after patch

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭

    @SPESHAL.9106 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    @James.1065 said:
    I honestly don't know what they based the decision on that reapers survivability was too high with soul eater healing in shroud.

    It's the squishiest class of all the melee professions and common knowledge to focus it first as an easy kill! Seriously kitten

    They have game metrics.

    10 players going to the forums or community sites saying "I fell like I'm squishier than I should be" can't have more weight than metrics clearly indicating they die less and lose less health on average than what they intended for the spec.

    Every skill you take. Every move you make. Every boon you get. Every step you take. They'll be watching you.

    Just so I understand what you're saying. You don't see Necros focused first and the easiest to zerg since they have no scaling defenses like blocks, evades, immunities??? You think they AREN'T easy to kill up close by warriors, revs, and guardians who wear heavy armor and have tons of cc? You don't see them picked off at range by rangers and mesmers with almost no gap closers?

    You believe that because Anet has "metrics" that they can't make mistakes in patches, and, thus all the changes they proposed in this patch and past patches have been correct???

    This!

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SPESHAL.9106 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    @James.1065 said:
    I honestly don't know what they based the decision on that reapers survivability was too high with soul eater healing in shroud.

    It's the squishiest class of all the melee professions and common knowledge to focus it first as an easy kill! Seriously kitten

    They have game metrics.

    10 players going to the forums or community sites saying "I fell like I'm squishier than I should be" can't have more weight than metrics clearly indicating they die less and lose less health on average than what they intended for the spec.

    Every skill you take. Every move you make. Every boon you get. Every step you take. They'll be watching you.

    Just so I understand what you're saying. You don't see Necros focused first and the easiest to zerg since they have no scaling defenses like blocks, evades, immunities??? You think they AREN'T easy to kill up close by warriors, revs, and guardians who wear heavy armor and have tons of cc? You don't see them picked off at range by rangers and mesmers with almost no gap closers?

    You believe that because Anet has "metrics" that they can't make mistakes in patches, and, thus all the changes they proposed in this patch and past patches have been correct???

    That's not what he said, you misunderstood.

    Arenanets metrics will be more viable than players subjective feeling. They will consider a change based on the data they have and limited play experience. They can then check if the change had the desired effect via metrics post balance patch and make adjustments if deemed appropriarte.

    That has nothing to do with being right or making mistakes. It's about how you approach the problem seperate from subjective emotion and bias. Obviously there can still be mistakes in reading the data, the expected solution which is implemented, etc.

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 15, 2019

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @James.1065 said:
    I honestly don't know what they based the decision on that reapers survivability was too high with soul eater healing in shroud.

    It's the squishiest class of all the melee professions and common knowledge to focus it first as an easy kill! Seriously kitten

    It's a PvE change. In PvE the mobs just stand there and eat your damage, and even if they move a bit reaper has enough cleave to easily multi-hit them. The trait made it so you were much harder to kill. This is on a spec that was already harder to die with than other DPS specs in PvE without soul eater. It does suck a little for competitive modes but the truth is that it barely did anything there anyway. If you get any significant healing from this it means that you would have won the fight anyway.

    Even as a pve change, it's a not needed nerf. You have to have full 25 stacks of might 100% crit and all other damage modifier as well as cleaving maximum number of mobs just for it to keep you topped up but was never too much sustain. Against single targets it's a super weak trait

    It suits the theme to be able to heal in shroud and also makes playing it fun: you take damage from your health bar to gain LF and then go into shroud to deal damage and gain back your health, as your LF depletes. It's a balancing trick of micro managing your health vs force. It was a super cool mechanic and not over powered at all.

  • DoomNexus.5324DoomNexus.5324 Member ✭✭✭

    @James.1065 said:

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @James.1065 said:
    I honestly don't know what they based the decision on that reapers survivability was too high with soul eater healing in shroud.

    It's the squishiest class of all the melee professions and common knowledge to focus it first as an easy kill! Seriously kitten

    It's a PvE change. In PvE the mobs just stand there and eat your damage, and even if they move a bit reaper has enough cleave to easily multi-hit them. The trait made it so you were much harder to kill. This is on a spec that was already harder to die with than other DPS specs in PvE without soul eater. It does suck a little for competitive modes but the truth is that it barely did anything there anyway. If you get any significant healing from this it means that you would have won the fight anyway.

    It suits the theme to be able to heal in shroud and also makes playing it fun: you take damage from your health bar to gain LF and then go into shroud to deal damage and gain back your health, as your LF depletes. It's a balancing trick of micro managing your health vs force. It was a super cool mechanic and not over powered at all.

    So you are telling us that.. having 2 separate hp bars, where one recovers while the other one gets depleted and you can change almost at will (with cd) so you can recharge the second one while the first one regenerates.. is not an op mechanic? thonk
    I agree tho, the change was not necessary. Would rather like to see a little less aoe burst. The damage output is actually fine imo, it's just that in sPvP the on-point AoE cleave is a tad too high when using Reaper's Onslaught imo.

    @James.1065 said:
    It's the squishiest class of all the melee professions and common knowledge to focus it first as an easy kill! Seriously kitten

    Let me fix that sentence for you:
    "It has ridiculous burst output with spin2win and AoE chill and it is common knowledge to focus it first as a very strong aoe damage dealer".
    There you go :)

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524

    You made a mistake on function gyro. At 50% added the cooldown goes up by each additional gyro spawned.

    So, assuming you stomp 3 and res 3 at the same time that adds 15x5 seconds to the recharge. As such, in that extreme example, you have a cooldown of 105 seconds.

    More likely you will have two downed (one enemy and one ally). The cooldown is 45 seconds. So this gives you a chance to save an ally from cleave while stomping an enemy once every 45 seconds.

    Strong but will have to see how much better it is than some of the scourge resurrection bots.

    It removes the elite toolkit ability.

    The new gyro is a massive nerf to the scrapper.

    @saerni.2584 The res & stomp multiples at the same time while laying down a daze is an amazing upgrade regardless of the increased CD. That's pretty much a guaranteed way to turn around a failing team fight, and the CD really isn't that much considering FG is now like a better version of Banner, which has a much longer CD might I add. Just my opinion though.

    @Dawdler.8521 Yeah, I didn't notice that initially about removing F5 elite. I guess the drawback system is getting real.

    @Mbelch.9028 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    the bad
    scrapper gutted

    Was scrapper gutted??? I don't see anything other than a slight shave in healing (not a shave in barrier creation) that leads me to believe that it was gutted. I think it might be STRONGER in a team setting after the patch.

    This is what I was thinking. The -300 vitality is only 3000 health value and the Scrapper will still have more base health than a Guardian. People are freaking out about the -300 health value, but considering the ridiculous amount of added daze effects and the +75% duration they are receiving, I think we'll be seeing Scrappers run Marauder or Demolisher maybe, to benefit the 15% barriers from damage, and players without heavy stability uptime won't be able to breath much in a 1v1 vs. a Scrapper due to the overly frequent dazing that is elongated as hell. Then of course the almost 100% uptime of superspeed is going allow the Scrapper to disengage whenever and wherever it wants to, freely at will. I'm no Engi main, but it looks to me that the side node 1vX bunker will be going away, and a much more annoying fast moving decapper side node 1v1 duelist is going to emerge. Oh and, hitting things with the hammer isn't going to be an issue when it has heavy application of superspeed. Just my prediction.

    @ZhouX.8742 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    I don't know man, marksmanship is a pretty ballsy traitline... I was running it with zerker and sic em just to feel it was doing enough damage. The 15% reduction to sic em actually isn't much AND it has added move speed now... might still be worth it. I just don't expect players to be running marksmanship and dropping wilderness survival.

    Dropping wilderness survival in this meta is simply not worth it. Marksmanship is literally a meme full power trait line and a major reason why this class gets complained about, because it can push out good damage, but they don't understand the flipside of your survivability trade off is 100% for even hitting higher numbers.

    You are a walking target aside from necro because it's obvious if you're running opportunity buff icons on your bar, then you're most likely not running WS aka easy burst down.

    This is obviously fine , for the most part there should be trade offs in survivability for higher dmg, the issue with ranger is you don't do near as much dmg as other classes consistently and one cleave from WI or maul isn't enough with res capability now no matter how many once-every-30second trait modifiers you setup beforehand (blocks, evade, invuln exist too , blocks even more now).

    Also @Trevor Boyer.6524 "AoO 25%, MoC 50%, Remorseless 25% = +100% damage modifier for a given Maul or WI. I warned everyone, been warning you for months." - This is not efficient in higher level play or against people with brains unless you're 1upping. Nevertheless, it will be complained about and requested to be nerfed heavily because unfortunately casuals will be victims to this setup and immediately clamor to the forums to cry for nerfs. So expect that coming soon. I'm sure there's already numerous threads on it anyway so lol

    I would have said the same thing about a year ago. Lately however, I had been experimenting with Ranger, using it for different kinds of job roles other than the traditional. There is a strong marksmanship/(beastmastery or skirmishing)/soulbeast build that you can run, that makes a VERY strong team fighter. It's a Necro/FB type situation though. The Ranger needs a dedicated support to travel with, but when it has it, and it is in a 3v3 or 4v4 where there is confusion, it is easy to hit with big marksmanship modifiers and 1HKO players. It runs GS and Axe/Axe, lays down way heavier AoE damage than even a Berserker, and offers stance share. Bear Stance is amazing when running a team fight Ranger like this btw, as well as Dolyak. The nastiest part about this, is there is a way to perma spam AoE weakness constantly. As I said to Eurantien & Zhou before, I'll try to get around to posting some footage of this soon. Yesterday I was using my time to try and rank up a bit during the last 48 hours that I'll be able to play Druid, because I had just transferred back from EU and had 0 games played.

    @Bossun.2046 said:
    man, and i had finally found a cool druid build from some barbie girl on youtube. Something that made druid actually playable, and now i see that this low tier spec is getting nerfed... what are they thinking in there. NCsoft needs to pay more attention to anet xd

    Oh I'm sure there is some kind of an arcane marketing purpose behind what they are doing, that us consumer plebs wouldn't understand. Still doesn't make me feel better about these balance decisions though!

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Dave.6819 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    MESMER:

    • I don't think these changes will necessarily be buffs or nerfs in competitive modes, but I could be wrong. These however: Flow of Time: The alacrity per clone shattered has been increased from 1 second to 1.5 seconds & Seize the Moment: The quickness per clone shattered has been increased from 1.5 seconds to 2 seconds, are going to be pretty kitten strong in pve.

    u rly dunno much bout mesmer now do u? not being able to shatter on yourself and not being able to shatter with 0 clones. also no distortion on f4 basically. that's a nail in a coffin for chronos. they made illusionary persona trait as baseline for a reason. that's how important it is to use shatters with no clones. chrono will be clunky and terrible. nothing "strong in pve" about it also.

    Just adding that the reason for quickness and alacrity "buff" per clone is because there is no IP on chrono, so surprise surprise it's still the same quickness and alacrity.

    Seriously if after this you can see why Trevor is clueless regarding mesmers and anti-mesmer at heart...

    Yup, I'm no Mesmer main. I always drop my 2 cents worth of suggestions for nerfs of buffs on other classes as well, including Ranger/Soulbast/Druid. I was actually one of the first people who said Sic Em needed a nerf. So you Mirage mains can go ahead and stop victimizing yourselves. It's annoying, please stop.

    @Chaith.8256 Good forecast. 100% agree.

    @ApaWanka.2698 said:
    I would suggest to the OP to check engineer's sub forum to see what the actual engineers thing about the patch notes. The general feeling is a BIG nerf to scrapper.

    The removal from full FREE defensive sustain traits (like rapid regeneration) changed to "deal damage to sustain" traits mean that you need to actually DO damage to get barriers, and scrapper hammer have big issues reaching enemies to do it.

    So most engineers think that the scrapper sustain and rezhability will be worst than what is now (not juzguin if now is too much or not) just comparing before and after patch

    I think people are misunderstanding the quick comments I made in the OP statement. Also man, I really don't think this is going to be a big nerf to Scrapper like everyone seems to believe. A nerf to 1vX bunker sure, but a new build will emerge from this. Possibly one that is stronger or at the least, equal in value.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 15, 2019

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    The res & stomp multiples at the same time while laying down a daze is an amazing upgrade regardless of the increased CD. That's pretty much a guaranteed way to turn around a failing team fight, and the CD really isn't that much considering FG is now like a better version of Banner, which has a much longer CD might I add. Just my opinion though.

    That daze you're talking about, that's an adept trait that nobody will have called System Shock. It's not a guaranteed turn around because summoning more Function Gyros leaves them still as just 1 npc manually reviving that are vulnerable to the cleave, CC & corruption coming in. Function Gyro is only capable of reviving by itself if it's a sneaky res where nobody is hitting the body, Scrapper has been good at double-ressing 1 target, but you aren't summoning more Scrappers to fast revive everybody.

    @Dawdler.8521 Yeah, I didn't notice that initially about removing F5 elite. I guess the drawback system is getting real.

    Yeah, so, for base Scrapper it's like this:

    • Get multi-function Gyros & lightning field, get super speed on combo finisher, get 15% damage to barrier conversion.
    • Lose by getting a 50-250% increased F-Gyro cooldown, lose a game changer F5 skill such as Toss Moa, lose Super Speed/Might/Barrier on finish/revive (not a big loss), lose 15% increased barrier, lose 5% damage while you have barrier, lose 300 vitality.

    Those are the changes to base Scrapper traitline before looking at major traits. I'd say if you carefully weigh the pros and cons, it's objectively a sizable nerf to base Scrapper traitline minors.

    If we look at the skills affected, Bulwark Gyro is getting a big nerf, how much is unknown, but likely won't be usable unless you focus on teamfighting only. Big big nerf, Bulwark barrier is the buff that recently put Scrapper on the map from being in obscurity. Elixir X cooldown increased by 30s, skills portion of Scrapper getting scuffed as well.

    And then major traits:

    • PvP Scrappers for Adept traits are going to be getting Might on stability, and stability on Function Gyro, this is coming in instead of Perfectly Weighted's 10% hammer damage & stability on dodge roll. Kind of a side-grade. Less stability uptime, slightly more damage it works out to be.
    • PvP Scrappers when looking at major traits, it gets a little depressing. No longer able to get that good healing per second from Rapid Regeneration, probably just take the 5-15% damage boost which is roughly equal in damage than was in that slot before.
    • PvP Scrappers when looking at grandmaster major traits gets really depressing - adaptive armor is gutted to hell garbage tier, it's a grandmaster at about the strength of a minor trait, this was a big part of Scrapper's strength pre-patch. It was way better than any new options available.

    So if you break down every angle, Scrapper's compulsory traits, relevant skills, major traits, it's arguable net nerfs to each of the 3 categories.

    But considering the ridiculous amount of added daze effects. Won't be able to breath much in a 1v1 vs. a Scrapper due to the overly frequent dazing that is elongated as hell.

    What are you even talking about? There's an adept trait that nobody will take, and it does this: Function Gyro AoE dazes for 0.5s on a 30-105s cooldown, and your 2 leap finishers will daze for 1.5s x2 instead of 1s x2 every 12 seconds IF you use your combo skill offensively. In a lightning field. Frequent dazing that's elongated as hell? That's a garbage trait compared with other options.

    Almost 100% uptime of superspeed is going allow the Scrapper to disengage whenever and wherever it wants to, freely at will.

    To get 100% uptime of superspeed when disengaging you need to take Shocking Speed, and Gyros. Currently live Scrapper has this, because Shocking Speed & Gyros (Bulwark) are good. Scrappers currently can not disengage freely at will, Superspeed doesn't get you away from Thief, Mesmer, or Revenant. The Scrapper you're theorycrafting post patch has the ability to select 2-3 adept major traits. You need to choose one. Undoubtedly, the superspeed uptime of Scrappers post patch is going to decline because its less appealing to take Shocking Speed & Gyros. Post patch, you'll get superspeed from leap & blast finishers, but we don't know how much uptime that is. It's not almost 100%. It'll be less disengage and way less sustain than current Scrapper. It'll be shifted more toward Guardian where you go crush people, or die, you need to do damage to get Barrier.

    Oh and, hitting things with the hammer isn't going to be an issue when it has heavy application of superspeed. Just my prediction.

    Your predictions will be off because you based it on the idea that Scrappers will get 100% superspeed and 100% daze uptime from two crappy adept traits nobody will take, because you need that might & stability from the bottom adept.

    I think people are misunderstanding the quick comments I made in the OP statement. Also man, I really don't think this is going to be a big nerf to Scrapper like everyone seems to believe. A nerf to 1vX bunker sure, but a new build will emerge from this. Possibly one that is stronger or at the least, equal in value.

    It will not be equal in value in a competitive setting, the sheer tankiness of Scrapper is the only un-counterable thing about it. Its damage application methods are still going to be awful and extremely kite-able. I will wreck noobs with my damage build but it's gonna lose 75% of its current playerbase who are used to playing wet-noodle Scrapper.
    It's gonna be teamfight or bust for a serious attempt at Scrapper.

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SPESHAL.9106 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    @James.1065 said:
    I honestly don't know what they based the decision on that reapers survivability was too high with soul eater healing in shroud.

    It's the squishiest class of all the melee professions and common knowledge to focus it first as an easy kill! Seriously kitten

    They have game metrics.

    10 players going to the forums or community sites saying "I fell like I'm squishier than I should be" can't have more weight than metrics clearly indicating they die less and lose less health on average than what they intended for the spec.

    Every skill you take. Every move you make. Every boon you get. Every step you take. They'll be watching you.

    Just so I understand what you're saying. You don't see Necros focused first and the easiest to zerg since they have no scaling defenses like blocks, evades, immunities??? You think they AREN'T easy to kill up close by warriors, revs, and guardians who wear heavy armor and have tons of cc? You don't see them picked off at range by rangers and mesmers with almost no gap closers?

    You believe that because Anet has "metrics" that they can't make mistakes in patches, and, thus all the changes they proposed in this patch and past patches have been correct???

    You are completely missing the point.

    It's not that they can't make mistakes just because they have metrics. It's that a single player's personal feelings and subjective experience cannot have more weight than actual factual data.

    I read people saying reapers and scourges are squishy, but in my personal experience, as long as I'm not targeted my some gimmicky <1s burst I didn't see coming before I can put up my defenses, and as long as I can remove immobilize, I can get away and survive just fine.
    Whatever they are doing, if they feel so squishy, they may be approaching the profession all wrong in the first place, trying to make it do something it wasn't designed for. Like trying to use a pestle to cut a loaf of bread and complaining it isn't sharp enough.
    When a zerg begins to surround me, I can often get out of there if I move away fast enough, but trying to stay in there would be suicide.
    A reaper clearly isn't supposed to stay inside an enemy zerg and survive. They do not have many of the tools that would allow to do that well. If you look at a reaper skill set, in large scale fights Reapers are clearly meant to catch stragglers are they try to run away, and pin them down for your zerg to burst down. Death's Charge is a perfect example of a tool they can use to quickly close up to a singled out enemy, but slide away if the brunt of the enemy forces focuses on you. It works nicely for both tasks with its short 6s recharge.

    Have you ever tried a spectral graps followed by a Executioner's Scythe? After landing enough of those you chip away at an enemy zerg until they see their numbers have dwindled and run away, and then you keep them from running away snaring them with shouts, staff marks and pulling them back in with Grasping Darknes and spectral grasp, a bit of "Nothing Can Save You!" (which by the way should have 6s revealed added to it) and they won't be able to block your attack. Quickly get into shroud to put up stability and if they reflect the grasp you won't be pulled instead.
    When out of life force, just a few traited staff marks and you are back up with full life force while staying at a safe distance.

    But if a Reaper tries to get into a bunch of stacked enemy AoEs, of course they'll feel squishy. They are strong in small fights, against enemy zergs you'll need blocks, barrier and invulnerable, which they purposely do not have.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ryudnard.2587 said:
    You are such a cry baby. Give a constructive criticism as why you think it is bad.

    Don't just: "my reaction was nonononononono lololololololol."

    I like your feedback on thief. At least you are being honest.

    You seem a little lost, you haven't posted in this thread before/nobody responded to you like that. :-1:

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 15, 2019

    @Dave.6819
    Edit: Whatever. I had enough of him

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    the only ppl playing scrapper will be in wvw. another anet fail that killed a class (again). -3k hp is a ridiculous tradeoff, its going to make playing the class impossible.
    scrap is back to dead class.

    you don't know till you know, ya know.

  • SPESHAL.9106SPESHAL.9106 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 15, 2019

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    @SPESHAL.9106 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    @James.1065 said:
    I honestly don't know what they based the decision on that reapers survivability was too high with soul eater healing in shroud.

    It's the squishiest class of all the melee professions and common knowledge to focus it first as an easy kill! Seriously kitten

    They have game metrics.

    10 players going to the forums or community sites saying "I fell like I'm squishier than I should be" can't have more weight than metrics clearly indicating they die less and lose less health on average than what they intended for the spec.

    Every skill you take. Every move you make. Every boon you get. Every step you take. They'll be watching you.

    Just so I understand what you're saying. You don't see Necros focused first and the easiest to zerg since they have no scaling defenses like blocks, evades, immunities??? You think they AREN'T easy to kill up close by warriors, revs, and guardians who wear heavy armor and have tons of cc? You don't see them picked off at range by rangers and mesmers with almost no gap closers?

    You believe that because Anet has "metrics" that they can't make mistakes in patches, and, thus all the changes they proposed in this patch and past patches have been correct???

    You are completely missing the point.

    It's not that they can't make mistakes just because they have metrics. It's that a single player's personal feelings and subjective experience cannot have more weight than actual factual data.

    I read people saying reapers and scourges are squishy, but in my personal experience, as long as I'm not targeted my some gimmicky <1s burst I didn't see coming before I can put up my defenses, and as long as I can remove immobilize, I can get away and survive just fine.
    Whatever they are doing, if they feel so squishy, they may be approaching the profession all wrong in the first place, trying to make it do something it wasn't designed for. Like trying to use a pestle to cut a loaf of bread and complaining it isn't sharp enough.
    When a zerg begins to surround me, I can often get out of there if I move away fast enough, but trying to stay in there would be suicide.
    A reaper clearly isn't supposed to stay inside an enemy zerg and survive. They do not have many of the tools that would allow to do that well. If you look at a reaper skill set, in large scale fights Reapers are clearly meant to catch stragglers are they try to run away, and pin them down for your zerg to burst down. Death's Charge is a perfect example of a tool they can use to quickly close up to a singled out enemy, but slide away if the brunt of the enemy forces focuses on you. It works nicely for both tasks with its short 6s recharge.

    Have you ever tried a spectral graps followed by a Executioner's Scythe? After landing enough of those you chip away at an enemy zerg until they see their numbers have dwindled and run away, and then you keep them from running away snaring them with shouts, staff marks and pulling them back in with Grasping Darknes and spectral grasp, a bit of "Nothing Can Save You!" (which by the way should have 6s revealed added to it) and they won't be able to block your attack. Quickly get into shroud to put up stability and if they reflect the grasp you won't be pulled instead.
    When out of life force, just a few traited staff marks and you are back up with full life force while staying at a safe distance.

    But if a Reaper tries to get into a bunch of stacked enemy AoEs, of course they'll feel squishy. They are strong in small fights, against enemy zergs you'll need blocks, barrier and invulnerable, which they purposely do not have.

    Now that you "explained" yourself...your point is even worse because you really are spinning and cherry picking some rationale to support what you were arguing.

    The suvivability of reapers is NOT too high by ANY objective measure. The scenario you outlined is sheer folly against a coordinated team. I doubt you have ever played against such.

    Plus, you pretty much argued against yourself by finally admitting that a class needs blocks, barriers and invulns to fight against zergs. Here's a news flash...other classes have those abilities so it's sheer folly AGAIN to say Reapers are TOO survivable as Anet claimed simply due to 5% damage within 300 range healing them in shroud.

    Heck...a reaper doesn't even need to go into a zerg to get insta-gibbed. One daze mesmer and rev will 100-0 the reaper with no chance to escape. SB ranger or rampage warrior will totally evaporate the reapers health in seconds. If they have just ONE other person...not a zerg...it's even worse....yet...you believe Anet's statement that they are too survivable.

    Have you NOT ever seen other professions escape those scenarios much easier? You have never seen a Thief escape 2 people much easier??? You have never seen a Mesmer escape? You have never seen a scrapper stand up to 2-3 people longer than a reaper? You have never seen a guardian last longer? You have never seen a warrior and rev run away from bad odds easier?

    How do you not see the obvious??? Matches start with the opposing team targeting the necro almost 100% of the time...yet...you believe Anet's statement that they are too survivable.

    BTW, at the start of a match, a necro has ZERO life force and the only way to get it is get in combat. Without life force, a necro has almost no defenses and many of their traits and abilities are useless. Almost every other class is at full strength to start a match with 100% of their cooldowns available...yet...you believe Anet's statement that reapers are TOO survivable because of 5% healing in shroud when doing damage in 300 range...roflmao.

  • Fortus.6175Fortus.6175 Member ✭✭✭

    /reads OP "huh, no ele notes? of course :( , nobody knows what they are"

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭

    @James.1065 said:
    It's the squishiest class of all the melee professions and common knowledge to focus it first as an easy kill! Seriously kitten

    Let me fix that sentence for you:
    "It has ridiculous burst output with spin2win and AoE chill and it is common knowledge to focus it first as a very strong aoe damage dealer".
    There you go :)

    I don't know why people complain so much about spin to win, there are alot of classes hitting alot harder from alot further away and even some from stealth!

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dave.6819 said:

    Yup, I'm no Mesmer main. I always drop my 2 cents worth of suggestions for nerfs of buffs on other classes as well, including Ranger/Soulbast/Druid. I was actually one of the first people who said Sic Em needed a nerf. So you Mirage mains can go ahead and stop victimizing yourselves. It's annoying, please stop.

    First of all no1 said anythin bout Mirage cuz Chrono is getting nerfed. Secondly mesmers aren't victimizing themselves. They are merely reacting to what Anet is doing to their class over the last 2 years (same goes to eles and same goes BIG time for thieves).. so.. Imagine your beloved ranger would get nerfed to the ground (like let's say thief was over the past 3-4 years). Wouldn't you become a "victimized crybaby" on forums? I bet you would. It's all good and smooth sailing when your own skin is safe right? Well i'd be very curious to see how would u deal with your main class being destroyed by balance team and how would u adapt to such changes. U'd either quit or re-roll like most of ppl do. Being biased looks very terrible. People should speak only about the class that they fully understand. I'd never go and speak about anythin xcept mesmer/thief. I've played em all but i do not understand them all 100%. So u should take that advice and speak only bout the class that u've played atleast 2-3 years. Your opinion would be wildly different i assume in that case.

    1. Ranger was knocked completely out of viability during the core years for 50% of the time or greater.
    2. Ranger had a good run during HoT with Druid.
    3. Druid had the batshit nerfed out of it with PoF release and Ranger has seen nothing but subpar bottom meta, not top tier viable builds ever since.
    4. I have been a Ranger main for 7 years. I experienced all of these eras.
    5. for 7 years I have also watched Mesmer occupy top 3 meta positions, or even at times, be allowed by Anet to run a completely bugged & broken build that allows it transcendent competitive status amongst other metas, while we wait months and months for some kind of a simple fix.

    Don't talk to me about Rangers & Mesmers, Dave. Don't do it! Stop it!

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    Thief reworks are just amusing so amusing its going to be funny how much crying starts when these changes go into effect. I'll just say the way I am perceiving it working is that the more spam you dish out to attack a thief the more deadly the thief can become. We won't even need to use any power in our builds we can just use minstrel or nomads or the mender I think is pvp's. All deadeye needs to do with the thief changes is hold a shortbow and mark targets. Return of the ninja medic its such an epic movie name. All the medics coming out of retirement the world needs healing it really does.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dave.6819 said:

    Yup, I'm no Mesmer main. I always drop my 2 cents worth of suggestions for nerfs of buffs on other classes as well, including Ranger/Soulbast/Druid. I was actually one of the first people who said Sic Em needed a nerf. So you Mirage mains can go ahead and stop victimizing yourselves. It's annoying, please stop.

    First of all no1 said anythin bout Mirage cuz Chrono is getting nerfed. Secondly mesmers aren't victimizing themselves. They are merely reacting to what Anet is doing to their class over the last 2 years (same goes to eles and same goes BIG time for thieves).. so.. Imagine your beloved ranger would get nerfed to the ground (like let's say thief was over the past 3-4 years). Wouldn't you become a "victimized crybaby" on forums? I bet you would. It's all good and smooth sailing when your own skin is safe right? Well i'd be very curious to see how would u deal with your main class being destroyed by balance team and how would u adapt to such changes. U'd either quit or re-roll like most of ppl do. Being biased looks very terrible. People should speak only about the class that they fully understand. I'd never go and speak about anythin xcept mesmer/thief. I've played em all but i do not understand them all 100%. So u should take that advice and speak only bout the class that u've played atleast 2-3 years. Your opinion would be wildly different i assume in that case.

    This is not true. I do not have to play a build/class for a prolonged period of time to have an opinion about it. As someone who has been playing sPvP for close to 5 years, I can easily tell you what works and what does, and also what is over or under performing. I try to be fair when posting my positions on balance, but I understand there will always be a bias towards how I envision the game should be (more than my main).

    Example, I think mirage is currently terrible. Even the new stupid interrupt build, is mediocre. I think the upcoming Soul Beast nerfs are good. I do not think DD thief is as bad as thief mains claim (though core is surely better now). And DE is no longer viable. It still needs to lose the stealth on dodge in favor of less kitten stupid stealth bot mechanic. I think FB is over powered. And its support capacity needs a strong curb. I am a guardian main, so does that mean only the last one counts? Also, many guardian mains do not agree with me.

    Remember, balance is not done in a bubble. It is relative to how every other build is. I cannot only understand and speak in regards to classes/builds I play, since all other balance changes impacts my game play experience.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 15, 2019

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    SCRAPPER:

    --- snip ---

    I think you misread a lot of what happened to scrapper, allow me to explain:

    1. -300 vit minor trait. All scrappers are down 3000 health now, equivalent to guardian/ele base health.
    2. 15% of outgoing strike damage (I presume this means power damage) is returned as barrier. This means that in order to recover 3000 health, the scrapper needs to deal 20,000 damage. This damage doesn't include condi as far as I can tell.
    3. Old function gyro worked every 10 seconds at 900 range. New function gyro works every 30 seconds at 600 range (+15s per additional f-gyro spawned). This is roughly equivalent to the warrior elite banner but on a shorter cooldown and shorter radius, and works more slowly (f-gyros need to cast, not instantaneous like banner). F-gyros should all still be cleavable/cc-able.
    4. Object in Motion comes at the expense of perfectly weighted and another damage boost. Overall, it's actually a decrease in damage.
    5. Rapid Regen was removed -- significantly lowering scrapper's ability to survive and heal. It also hurts healer builds using MDF.
    6. The increase in stun/daze brings finishers up to closer to 1.5 seconds instead of 1 second. It's stronger, but not that much stronger.
    7. Adaptive armor's effect is weaker, it only boosts barrier you gain now.
    8. The new function gyro prevents access to F5 skills such as Detection Pulse and Moa

    In short, scrapper must output more damage than it used to in order to regain the health it lost. However, at the same time it also lost some serious damage-dealing traits and some powerful F5 skills. It can theoretically generate more barrier and stuns, but it remains to be seen how helpful that is, considering how much more vulnerable it is to bursts now.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    SCRAPPER:

    --- snip ---

    I think you misread a lot of what happened to scrapper, allow me to explain:

    1. -300 vit minor trait. All scrappers are down 3000 health now, equivalent to guardian/ele base health.

    More like 13k vs 10k, it's between scholar and adventurer.

    1. Old function gyro worked every 10 seconds at 900 range. New function gyro works every 30 seconds at 600 range (+15s per additional f-gyro spawned).

    It was 20 seconds cooldown

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • Liewec.2896Liewec.2896 Member ✭✭✭

    Unyielding Anguish: This skill has been reworked and renamed Call to Anguish. It is now a leap finisher skill that pulls foes to the center of your landing point and chills them. This skill has an energy cost of 35 and a 5-second recharge.

    they managed to break my condi rev spec that noone was using...
    bravo Anet bravo!

    before this i could chain 3 UA casts together to deal a whopping 20+ stacks of torment, now it doesn't even deal torment...

    infact the only change i'm looking forward to is Icerazor's Ire's 30% damage increase,
    FINALLY they've remembered that Renegade exists, even if they're only buffing the one single skill.

  • bluberblasen.9684bluberblasen.9684 Member ✭✭✭
    1. -300 vit minor trait. All scrappers are down 3000 health now, equivalent to guardian/ele base health.

    nice
    i like this change sooooo much.
    now put this " buff " to all overpowered elite specs.

    give it to:

    • mirage
    • holo
    • spellbreaker
    • scourges

    Thank You

  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Dave.6819 said:

    Yup, I'm no Mesmer main. I always drop my 2 cents worth of suggestions for nerfs of buffs on other classes as well, including Ranger/Soulbast/Druid. I was actually one of the first people who said Sic Em needed a nerf. So you Mirage mains can go ahead and stop victimizing yourselves. It's annoying, please stop.

    First of all no1 said anythin bout Mirage cuz Chrono is getting nerfed. Secondly mesmers aren't victimizing themselves. They are merely reacting to what Anet is doing to their class over the last 2 years (same goes to eles and same goes BIG time for thieves).. so.. Imagine your beloved ranger would get nerfed to the ground (like let's say thief was over the past 3-4 years). Wouldn't you become a "victimized crybaby" on forums? I bet you would. It's all good and smooth sailing when your own skin is safe right? Well i'd be very curious to see how would u deal with your main class being destroyed by balance team and how would u adapt to such changes. U'd either quit or re-roll like most of ppl do. Being biased looks very terrible. People should speak only about the class that they fully understand. I'd never go and speak about anythin xcept mesmer/thief. I've played em all but i do not understand them all 100%. So u should take that advice and speak only bout the class that u've played atleast 2-3 years. Your opinion would be wildly different i assume in that case.

    This is not true. I do not have to play a build/class for a prolonged period of time to have an opinion about it. As someone who has been playing sPvP for close to 5 years, I can easily tell you what works and what does, and also what is over or under performing. I try to be fair when posting my positions on balance, but I understand there will always be a bias towards how I envision the game should be (more than my main).

    Example, I think mirage is currently terrible. Even the new stupid interrupt build, is mediocre. I think the upcoming Soul Beast nerfs are good. I do not think DD thief is as bad as thief mains claim (though core is surely better now). And DE is no longer viable. It still needs to lose the stealth on dodge in favor of less kitten stupid stealth bot mechanic. I think FB is over powered. And its support capacity needs a strong curb. I am a guardian main, so does that mean only the last one counts? Also, many guardian mains do not agree with me.

    Remember, balance is not done in a bubble. It is relative to how every other build is. I cannot only understand and speak in regards to classes/builds I play, since all other balance changes impacts my game play experience.

    Well then here's my thoughts on FB. FB isn't overpowered. It is a very decent support class but the fact that other builds aren't really up to meta standards (core guard/dh) makes FB not OP. If guard had some other builds i'd say yea nerf FB. But for now.. FB support is the only one way guards can be good. Besides support in general isn't so threatening it can't one shot you. So let them stick to it. I wouldn't mind making meditation radiance / valor / virtues with scep/shield + sword/focus a new meta. Buff that old build and then you can take down FB all u want. It's even more fun to play then support. But still.. i think we shouldn't comment on classes that aren't our mains and faves. It sounds too biased and might give misleading impressions. Sure.. i think scrapper is OP. I think Soulbeast is OP. But by crying in forums "nerf that nerf that!" we would just be hurting the game further. I don't do that. I only comment on my own classes when there's really something OFF bout em. Perfect example is thief as i said. Ppl cried and cried in forums.. and now i know atleast 20 thief players who have quitted the game. We don't want that. We don't want to get rid of our own community. Does anet suck at balancing? Yea. They really do. But community sometimes really fuels the fire even more. Anet doesn't listen to us too much anyway. So we are better off just being silent bout balance in general.

    #MakeTeefGreatAgain

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    SCRAPPER:

    --- snip ---

    I think you misread a lot of what happened to scrapper, allow me to explain:

    1. -300 vit minor trait. All scrappers are down 3000 health now, equivalent to guardian/ele base health.
    2. 15% of outgoing strike damage (I presume this means power damage) is returned as barrier. This means that in order to recover 3000 health, the scrapper needs to deal 20,000 damage. This damage doesn't include condi as far as I can tell.
    3. Old function gyro worked every 10 seconds at 900 range. New function gyro works every 30 seconds at 600 range (+15s per additional f-gyro spawned). This is roughly equivalent to the warrior elite banner but on a shorter cooldown and shorter radius, and works more slowly (f-gyros need to cast, not instantaneous like banner). F-gyros should all still be cleavable/cc-able.
    4. Object in Motion comes at the expense of perfectly weighted and another damage boost. Overall, it's actually a decrease in damage.
    5. Rapid Regen was removed -- significantly lowering scrapper's ability to survive and heal. It also hurts healer builds using MDF.
    6. The increase in stun/daze brings finishers up to closer to 1.5 seconds instead of 1 second. It's stronger, but not that much stronger.
    7. Adaptive armor's effect is weaker, it only boosts barrier you gain now.
    8. The new function gyro prevents access to F5 skills such as Detection Pulse and Moa

    In short, scrapper must output more damage than it used to in order to regain the health it lost. However, at the same time it also lost some serious damage-dealing traits and some powerful F5 skills. It can theoretically generate more barrier and stuns, but it remains to be seen how helpful that is, considering how much more vulnerable it is to bursts now.

    Yeah I hear ya. I'm not trying to make solid ultra statements here. I'm just saying that I think people are seriously underestimating how much barrier is going to be returned when a Scrapper is in a team fight wearing Demolisher or something, getting AoE cleaves on 3+ players. As you said, to return 3000 health as a barrier, you'd need to deal about 20,000 damage. Thing is, that's pretty easy to do when 2 or 3 people are balled up together on a node and if the Scrapper was running a DPS amulet. Even running Knight's, would still yield sizable frequent barriers if the Scrapper was 1v2. Anet didn't specifically mention anything about a CD on this specific trait, so if it has no CD, there will be a lot of room to toy with Scrapper DPS builds that will be surprisingly sustainy for those who are good at maintaining pressure.

    I think this change to Scrapper is just going to make & break the difference between good players and bad players. It won't be so easy to roll around and 100% defensive bunk a side node anymore for mid to low tiers. Good Scrappers on the other hand, are still going to be difficult to kill, and actually dangerous with more frequent and elongated dazes, and a lot more damage.

    I'm actually excited to try it tbh. As soon as the patch hits, I'll be rolling a DPS Scrapper. See how it works.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    snips

    sure it will be unkillable in team fights, but who cares? ppl will ignore it, and its 1v1 capability went down dramatically.

    you don't know till you know, ya know.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    actually dangerous with more frequent and elongated dazes, and a lot more damage.

    There's not gonna be more frequent or elongated dazes in practice, and no damage effectiveness buffs in practice. In its purest essence, it'll be the same damage as on live, if a Scrapper picked all DPS traits, like the bottom Grandmaster over Adaptive Armor.

    Let's chat again in an hour

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

    • The thief changes look very unbalanced for competitive game modes. I just can’t even begin to see how this made it through testing. This is gonna get salty.
    • Elementalist changes are interesting, but a good chance the class and certain builds were over-buffed.
    • Scrapper and Holo changes initially appear poorly implemented.
    • Revenant was hammered in the name of plat 2 + PvP balance.
    • Ranger changes seem to hit the mark overall.
    • Some nice buffs were made to DH and guardian. They seem like good changes.
    • Rampage is currently a crutch for War in all competitive modes, and only stacking DR% addressed.
    • Necro needs to heal is Shroud from all sources at 10% to 20% effectiveness. Traits and team heals should not be locked out and completely ineffective. The cost for Shroud is already paid in losing access to all utilities and elites while in Shroud.
    • Mesmer balance regime that dominated since HoT has been fully overthrown.
  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    After 3 matches PvP I can already see that core guardian has now been buffed to god mode. This ignorance towards PvP balance is really a shame.

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048

    Thanks for killing condi scrapper .. you know .. 'cause it was so so viable already..

    :(

    Could we please allow the barrier trait to work with condi instead of just strike damage?

    Edit: see https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/81893/dear-balance-team-condi-engi-is-in-a-bad-enough-spot-right-now for more discussion

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Marxx.5021 said:
    After 3 matches PvP I can already see that core guardian has now been buffed to god mode. This ignorance towards PvP balance is really a shame.

    Come again for big fudge?

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    • So what we're looking at is a class that has by far more revive power than anything else in the game to the point that it will actually be very difficult to even secure a kill if an experienced Scrapper is present, in addition to the ability to full team free stomp every opponent every 30s, that will be unkillable 1v1 on a side node, that has nearly 100% uptime of stability & superspeed and random elongated dazes & stuns, that rotates nearly as quickly as a Thief. Just... why is this happening?

    That is some high level satire right there.

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    @Julius Seizure.4985 said:

    • The thief changes look very unbalanced for competitive game modes. I just can’t even begin to see how this made it through testing. This is gonna get salty.

    What? How? Preparations are all completely useless except portal which has been around since ever only this one can take only one Ally and one way only?
    And SA changes? Also nothing powerful about them, might promote Core D/P or some DE builds but I fail to see how are those changes unbalanced. If you could explain a little.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    @Julius Seizure.4985 said:

    • The thief changes look very unbalanced for competitive game modes. I just can’t even begin to see how this made it through testing. This is gonna get salty.

    It's looking very likely that the only real change for thief in competitive modes is that they now have a 2-person, one-way portal replacing one of the utility slots.

    There's a lot of stuff changing for thief, but very little of it seems meta-shattering. Shadow's Arts has very weak numbers to the trait changes, so it's doubtful that it'll change bring some new build into meta and certainly won't change S/D.
    Even the Odds might replace Panic Strike, but it'll even out the nerf to Dagger Storm at best.
    The rest of the preparations don't really matter since the utility skills for meta thiefs are already so set in stone with the current selection of Shadow Step for stun break/mobility/stomps and Sig of Agi for synergy with dodges and condi cleanse.

  • shion.2084shion.2084 Member ✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 Thoughts on hitting the holo with inability to use tool belt skills if overcharged because of fear spam or whichever? I really don't see why they felt they needed to add that.

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    I played sPvP for 8 painful games in ranked today with Scrapper, couldn't summon more than one Function Gyro at a time. It's 180 radius and you need to use it as soon as an ally goes down, so.... So glad the F-Gyro cooldown has increased 6-10s and I got ripped off for my Toss Elixir X/Drop Bandages/Detection Pulse/Orbital strike for such a mechanic that I could not even use once.

    FYI:

    • Multi-Function Gyro summoning, can't even confirm it works, haven't witnessed it = utter uselessness.
    • Shuffling around damage trait changes to equal the exact same damage as before = utter uselessness.
    • New: System Shock adept major trait to do a piddly .5s daze once a fight, and un-noticeably improve Rocket Charge in a lightning field = utter uselessness.
    • New: Damage Dampener to defer some damage by 2 seconds instead of helping your build be more lethal or have more effective HP = utter uselessness.
    • The new Adaptive Armor in its entirety = utter uselessness.
    • Trying to play hammer Scrapper in an aggressive manner to take advantage of new Impact Savant = utter uselessness.

    These changes are the worst possible scenario, there are not a single new useful build or mechanics from this 're-work'. Destruction without rebirth is useless

    TL;DR: Useless, all of it.

    Chaith, please make a thread about this. I'd like Anet to make scrapper not just a brainless 1v4 tank, but something that has skillful combos and can do a lot of gruntwork on the sides. You've got great perspective on this, and I was waiting to see what you'd say after testing it.

  • Trigr.6481Trigr.6481 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    I played sPvP for 8 painful games in ranked today with Scrapper, couldn't summon more than one Function Gyro at a time. It's 180 radius and you need to use it as soon as an ally goes down, so.... So glad the F-Gyro cooldown has increased 6-10s and I got ripped off for my Toss Elixir X/Drop Bandages/Detection Pulse/Orbital strike for such a mechanic that I could not even use once.

    FYI:

    • Multi-Function Gyro summoning, can't even confirm it works, haven't witnessed it = utter uselessness.
    • Shuffling around damage trait changes to equal the exact same damage as before = utter uselessness.
    • New: System Shock adept major trait to do a piddly .5s daze once a fight, and un-noticeably improve Rocket Charge in a lightning field = utter uselessness.
    • New: Damage Dampener to defer some damage by 2 seconds instead of helping your build be more lethal or have more effective HP = utter uselessness.
    • The new Adaptive Armor in its entirety = utter uselessness.
    • Trying to play hammer Scrapper in an aggressive manner to take advantage of new Impact Savant = utter uselessness.

    These changes are the worst possible scenario, there are not a single new useful build or mechanics from this 're-work'. Destruction without rebirth is useless

    TL;DR: Useless, all of it.

    You think you have it bad, try playing chrono.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shion.2084 said:
    @Chaith.8256 Thoughts on hitting the holo with inability to use tool belt skills if overcharged because of fear spam or whichever? I really don't see why they felt they needed to add that.

    It's a PvE nerf, in PvP, don't overheat is always the proper response. It is very bad for PvE Holosmiths, not the kind of 'drawback' the spec needs, especially if mechanically strong players can mitigate it by not overheating often, like they currently do

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trigr.6481 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    I played sPvP for 8 painful games in ranked today with Scrapper, couldn't summon more than one Function Gyro at a time. It's 180 radius and you need to use it as soon as an ally goes down, so.... So glad the F-Gyro cooldown has increased 6-10s and I got ripped off for my Toss Elixir X/Drop Bandages/Detection Pulse/Orbital strike for such a mechanic that I could not even use once.

    FYI:

    • Multi-Function Gyro summoning, can't even confirm it works, haven't witnessed it = utter uselessness.
    • Shuffling around damage trait changes to equal the exact same damage as before = utter uselessness.
    • New: System Shock adept major trait to do a piddly .5s daze once a fight, and un-noticeably improve Rocket Charge in a lightning field = utter uselessness.
    • New: Damage Dampener to defer some damage by 2 seconds instead of helping your build be more lethal or have more effective HP = utter uselessness.
    • The new Adaptive Armor in its entirety = utter uselessness.
    • Trying to play hammer Scrapper in an aggressive manner to take advantage of new Impact Savant = utter uselessness.

    These changes are the worst possible scenario, there are not a single new useful build or mechanics from this 're-work'. Destruction without rebirth is useless

    TL;DR: Useless, all of it.

    You think you have it bad, try playing chrono.

    You think you have it bad, try playing druid.

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @shion.2084 said:
    @Chaith.8256 Thoughts on hitting the holo with inability to use tool belt skills if overcharged because of fear spam or whichever? I really don't see why they felt they needed to add that.

    It's a PvE nerf, in PvP, don't overheat is always the proper response. It is very bad for PvE Holosmiths, not the kind of 'drawback' the spec needs, especially if mechanically strong players can mitigate it by not overheating often, like they currently do

    Exactly. I hope that holo nerf wasn't targeted at PvP holo because good players (hell, even moderately competent players) never overheat. Unless you're running PBM (which no one does in PvP), this should affect approximately no one.

  • Trigr.6481Trigr.6481 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Trigr.6481 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    I played sPvP for 8 painful games in ranked today with Scrapper, couldn't summon more than one Function Gyro at a time. It's 180 radius and you need to use it as soon as an ally goes down, so.... So glad the F-Gyro cooldown has increased 6-10s and I got ripped off for my Toss Elixir X/Drop Bandages/Detection Pulse/Orbital strike for such a mechanic that I could not even use once.

    FYI:

    • Multi-Function Gyro summoning, can't even confirm it works, haven't witnessed it = utter uselessness.
    • Shuffling around damage trait changes to equal the exact same damage as before = utter uselessness.
    • New: System Shock adept major trait to do a piddly .5s daze once a fight, and un-noticeably improve Rocket Charge in a lightning field = utter uselessness.
    • New: Damage Dampener to defer some damage by 2 seconds instead of helping your build be more lethal or have more effective HP = utter uselessness.
    • The new Adaptive Armor in its entirety = utter uselessness.
    • Trying to play hammer Scrapper in an aggressive manner to take advantage of new Impact Savant = utter uselessness.

    These changes are the worst possible scenario, there are not a single new useful build or mechanics from this 're-work'. Destruction without rebirth is useless

    TL;DR: Useless, all of it.

    You think you have it bad, try playing chrono.

    You think you have it bad, try playing druid.

    Iunno scientist, I'd be willing to bet money that chrono is in a worse spot than druids currently. I feel your pain though.

  • JETWING.2759JETWING.2759 Member ✭✭✭

    @coro.3176 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @shion.2084 said:
    @Chaith.8256 Thoughts on hitting the holo with inability to use tool belt skills if overcharged because of fear spam or whichever? I really don't see why they felt they needed to add that.

    It's a PvE nerf, in PvP, don't overheat is always the proper response. It is very bad for PvE Holosmiths, not the kind of 'drawback' the spec needs, especially if mechanically strong players can mitigate it by not overheating often, like they currently do

    Exactly. I hope that holo nerf wasn't targeted at PvP holo because good players (hell, even moderately competent players) never overheat. Unless you're running PBM (which no one does in PvP), this should affect approximately no one.

    Holo damage also was heavi nerfed... Too many cons for few rewards... Time to scraper or Juggernaut. Less headache.

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