Upcoming Balance Patch - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Upcoming Balance Patch

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  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JETWING.2759 said:

    @coro.3176 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @shion.2084 said:
    @Chaith.8256 Thoughts on hitting the holo with inability to use tool belt skills if overcharged because of fear spam or whichever? I really don't see why they felt they needed to add that.

    It's a PvE nerf, in PvP, don't overheat is always the proper response. It is very bad for PvE Holosmiths, not the kind of 'drawback' the spec needs, especially if mechanically strong players can mitigate it by not overheating often, like they currently do

    Exactly. I hope that holo nerf wasn't targeted at PvP holo because good players (hell, even moderately competent players) never overheat. Unless you're running PBM (which no one does in PvP), this should affect approximately no one.

    Holo damage also was heavi nerfed... Too many cons for few rewards... Time to scraper or Juggernaut. Less headache.

    Holo damage is nerfed how? Scrapper is the one that's suffering right now, I hear. Although my hope was that they wouldn't.

  • ParadoX.3124ParadoX.3124 Member ✭✭

    @Mbelch.9028 said:

    @JETWING.2759 said:

    @coro.3176 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @shion.2084 said:
    @Chaith.8256 Thoughts on hitting the holo with inability to use tool belt skills if overcharged because of fear spam or whichever? I really don't see why they felt they needed to add that.

    It's a PvE nerf, in PvP, don't overheat is always the proper response. It is very bad for PvE Holosmiths, not the kind of 'drawback' the spec needs, especially if mechanically strong players can mitigate it by not overheating often, like they currently do

    Exactly. I hope that holo nerf wasn't targeted at PvP holo because good players (hell, even moderately competent players) never overheat. Unless you're running PBM (which no one does in PvP), this should affect approximately no one.

    Holo damage also was heavi nerfed... Too many cons for few rewards... Time to scraper or Juggernaut. Less headache.

    Holo damage is nerfed how? Scrapper is the one that's suffering right now, I hear. Although my hope was that they wouldn't.

    Holo damage is nerfed on PVE. You have no access to belt skills after having overheating.
    I tested on Golem and it deals less damages than sword / Shield static discharge.
    Nothing has really changed on PvP

    Scrapper was nerfed on PVP. We now have the same damage than before, less hp, less healing. Gyros finishers/res have like 1 hp : it dies very easily, we can't make them spawn with stability and have a huge recharge.
    The barrier on strike is a joke, we need at least 25% barrier on damage to compensate our vitality.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Trigr.6481 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    I played sPvP for 8 painful games in ranked today with Scrapper, couldn't summon more than one Function Gyro at a time. It's 180 radius and you need to use it as soon as an ally goes down, so.... So glad the F-Gyro cooldown has increased 6-10s and I got ripped off for my Toss Elixir X/Drop Bandages/Detection Pulse/Orbital strike for such a mechanic that I could not even use once.

    FYI:

    • Multi-Function Gyro summoning, can't even confirm it works, haven't witnessed it = utter uselessness.
    • Shuffling around damage trait changes to equal the exact same damage as before = utter uselessness.
    • New: System Shock adept major trait to do a piddly .5s daze once a fight, and un-noticeably improve Rocket Charge in a lightning field = utter uselessness.
    • New: Damage Dampener to defer some damage by 2 seconds instead of helping your build be more lethal or have more effective HP = utter uselessness.
    • The new Adaptive Armor in its entirety = utter uselessness.
    • Trying to play hammer Scrapper in an aggressive manner to take advantage of new Impact Savant = utter uselessness.

    These changes are the worst possible scenario, there are not a single new useful build or mechanics from this 're-work'. Destruction without rebirth is useless

    TL;DR: Useless, all of it.

    You think you have it bad, try playing chrono.

    You think you have it bad, try playing druid.

    Yup, any viability it had left is completely gutted now with the removal of evade on Ancestral Grace. I tried playing it for 3 or 4 games in ranked earlier, and was losing to players 1v1 that normally I would be able to 1v2. It makes that much of a difference losing that evade while disengaging to get behind an LOS or reset. Good players figure it out pretty quickly, just CC the Druid when it goes into Ancestral Grace. Also, all damage still lands now that the evade frame is gone. So you have to eat Rapid Fires, DE Rifle spams, Holos chasing you, Spellbreaker Rampages, All random AoE in a team fight, ect.. ect.. There is no longer a practical way to disengage on a Druid frequently enough vs. competent players, for Druid to be able to do its thing.

    ~ Cheers, it's been good times Druid, may you rest in peace.

  • Ouk.5914Ouk.5914 Member ✭✭

    why was Gyro kitten a passive ICD made into an F tool-belt skill again?

    Gyro back to being kitten tier lmfaoooooo

  • mrauls.6519mrauls.6519 Member ✭✭✭

    @Marxx.5021 said:
    After 3 matches PvP I can already see that core guardian has now been buffed to god mode. This ignorance towards PvP balance is really a shame.

    Really?

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2019

    @mrauls.6519 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:
    After 3 matches PvP I can already see that core guardian has now been buffed to god mode. This ignorance towards PvP balance is really a shame.

    Really?

    Pretty sure people are complaining about 30% symbol buff, and all of the pulsing vuln that's coming off of it.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    SCRAPPER:

    --- snip ---

    I think you misread a lot of what happened to scrapper, allow me to explain:

    1. -300 vit minor trait. All scrappers are down 3000 health now, equivalent to guardian/ele base health.
    2. 15% of outgoing strike damage (I presume this means power damage) is returned as barrier. This means that in order to recover 3000 health, the scrapper needs to deal 20,000 damage. This damage doesn't include condi as far as I can tell.
    3. Old function gyro worked every 10 seconds at 900 range. New function gyro works every 30 seconds at 600 range (+15s per additional f-gyro spawned). This is roughly equivalent to the warrior elite banner but on a shorter cooldown and shorter radius, and works more slowly (f-gyros need to cast, not instantaneous like banner). F-gyros should all still be cleavable/cc-able.
    4. Object in Motion comes at the expense of perfectly weighted and another damage boost. Overall, it's actually a decrease in damage.
    5. Rapid Regen was removed -- significantly lowering scrapper's ability to survive and heal. It also hurts healer builds using MDF.
    6. The increase in stun/daze brings finishers up to closer to 1.5 seconds instead of 1 second. It's stronger, but not that much stronger.
    7. Adaptive armor's effect is weaker, it only boosts barrier you gain now.
    8. The new function gyro prevents access to F5 skills such as Detection Pulse and Moa

    In short, scrapper must output more damage than it used to in order to regain the health it lost. However, at the same time it also lost some serious damage-dealing traits and some powerful F5 skills. It can theoretically generate more barrier and stuns, but it remains to be seen how helpful that is, considering how much more vulnerable it is to bursts now.

    Yeah I hear ya. I'm not trying to make solid ultra statements here. I'm just saying that I think people are seriously underestimating how much barrier is going to be returned when a Scrapper is in a team fight wearing Demolisher or something, getting AoE cleaves on 3+ players. As you said, to return 3000 health as a barrier, you'd need to deal about 20,000 damage. Thing is, that's pretty easy to do when 2 or 3 people are balled up together on a node and if the Scrapper was running a DPS amulet. Even running Knight's, would still yield sizable frequent barriers if the Scrapper was 1v2. Anet didn't specifically mention anything about a CD on this specific trait, so if it has no CD, there will be a lot of room to toy with Scrapper DPS builds that will be surprisingly sustainy for those who are good at maintaining pressure.

    I think this change to Scrapper is just going to make & break the difference between good players and bad players. It won't be so easy to roll around and 100% defensive bunk a side node anymore for mid to low tiers. Good Scrappers on the other hand, are still going to be difficult to kill, and actually dangerous with more frequent and elongated dazes, and a lot more damage.

    I'm actually excited to try it tbh. As soon as the patch hits, I'll be rolling a DPS Scrapper. See how it works.

    Yeah it was terrible.

    Completely wrong to have been hopeful about this.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @mrauls.6519 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:
    After 3 matches PvP I can already see that core guardian has now been buffed to god mode. This ignorance towards PvP balance is really a shame.

    Really?

    Pretty sure people are complaining about 30% symbol buff, and all of the pulsing vuln that's coming off of it.

    The vulnerability pulsing was there for years.

    It is not a 30% buff. It was 10% pre patch. So you are comparing 1.3 skill damage to 1.1, 18.18% buff.

    If the 10% GS damage and 240 power are even. The removal of 130 power from symbolic avenger and 100 ferocity from from retribution far exceed the value of increase in damage from symbols and 5% extra damage to targets with vulnerability, due to loss in reliability. And the 10% from symbolic avenger is not reliable either (though better than before). This is breakeven at best.

    The loss of symbol blast and GS 25 heal per hit >>>>>> the heal on leap of faith. And that was he only sustain zeal as a line provided.

    Not to mention, you only get any of the benefits if you are using zeal. If you are running virtues/radiance/valor you lost 100 power and gained nothing. This was the meta build in the past.

    Overall, these changes are not remotely related to PvP. Do not improve core guardian or DH in PvP whatsoever, if not make them worse.

  • Killing scrapper to a point where you need to DELETE your toon completely. Useless.... holosmith useless. Engi USELESS.... Next thieves are almost dead in wvw and pvp. Soon enough we will have warriors and guards and necros the trifecta.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2019

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    SCRAPPER:

    --- snip ---

    I think you misread a lot of what happened to scrapper, allow me to explain:

    1. -300 vit minor trait. All scrappers are down 3000 health now, equivalent to guardian/ele base health.
    2. 15% of outgoing strike damage (I presume this means power damage) is returned as barrier. This means that in order to recover 3000 health, the scrapper needs to deal 20,000 damage. This damage doesn't include condi as far as I can tell.
    3. Old function gyro worked every 10 seconds at 900 range. New function gyro works every 30 seconds at 600 range (+15s per additional f-gyro spawned). This is roughly equivalent to the warrior elite banner but on a shorter cooldown and shorter radius, and works more slowly (f-gyros need to cast, not instantaneous like banner). F-gyros should all still be cleavable/cc-able.
    4. Object in Motion comes at the expense of perfectly weighted and another damage boost. Overall, it's actually a decrease in damage.
    5. Rapid Regen was removed -- significantly lowering scrapper's ability to survive and heal. It also hurts healer builds using MDF.
    6. The increase in stun/daze brings finishers up to closer to 1.5 seconds instead of 1 second. It's stronger, but not that much stronger.
    7. Adaptive armor's effect is weaker, it only boosts barrier you gain now.
    8. The new function gyro prevents access to F5 skills such as Detection Pulse and Moa

    In short, scrapper must output more damage than it used to in order to regain the health it lost. However, at the same time it also lost some serious damage-dealing traits and some powerful F5 skills. It can theoretically generate more barrier and stuns, but it remains to be seen how helpful that is, considering how much more vulnerable it is to bursts now.

    Yeah I hear ya. I'm not trying to make solid ultra statements here. I'm just saying that I think people are seriously underestimating how much barrier is going to be returned when a Scrapper is in a team fight wearing Demolisher or something, getting AoE cleaves on 3+ players. As you said, to return 3000 health as a barrier, you'd need to deal about 20,000 damage. Thing is, that's pretty easy to do when 2 or 3 people are balled up together on a node and if the Scrapper was running a DPS amulet. Even running Knight's, would still yield sizable frequent barriers if the Scrapper was 1v2. Anet didn't specifically mention anything about a CD on this specific trait, so if it has no CD, there will be a lot of room to toy with Scrapper DPS builds that will be surprisingly sustainy for those who are good at maintaining pressure.

    I think this change to Scrapper is just going to make & break the difference between good players and bad players. It won't be so easy to roll around and 100% defensive bunk a side node anymore for mid to low tiers. Good Scrappers on the other hand, are still going to be difficult to kill, and actually dangerous with more frequent and elongated dazes, and a lot more damage.

    I'm actually excited to try it tbh. As soon as the patch hits, I'll be rolling a DPS Scrapper. See how it works.

    Yeah it was terrible.

    Completely wrong to have been hopeful about this.

    Told ya. :tongue:

    The only thing scrapper seems to be good for now is gimmick builds. Or, as they say in the biz, "meme" builds.

    Try this kitten, maybe you'll have fun with it. -- shrug --

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @hayabusafmw.9370 said:
    Next thieves are almost dead in wvw and pvp.

    Quite the contrary, I except proliferation of thieves in WvW - small groups can no longer bring AoE reveal to try and counter harassers.

  • Alchimist.4738Alchimist.4738 Member ✭✭✭

    Another balance patch without any substantial nerfs for the braindead degeneracy that are Holosmith and Mirage.
    They can buff core profession all they want (Necromancer and Guardian this patch) it won’t matter as long as elite specializations just have the better tools alongside insane burst potentials.
    Overall the meta is not going to shift one bit, same old same old.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Alchimist.4738 said:
    Another balance patch without any substantial nerfs for the braindead degeneracy that are Holosmith and Mirage.
    They can buff core profession all they want (Necromancer and Guardian this patch) it won’t matter as long as elite specializations just have the better tools alongside insane burst potentials.
    Overall the meta is not going to shift one bit, same old same old.

    Dunno about that. Today I'm seeing these shifts as of the first day of patching. And this was from ranked:

    1. Core Guardians showing back up with damage.
    2. Which is setting Mirage off. Also Chrono isn't being so widely used = Mesmers are on a downslope. Haven't seen many today.
    3. Haven't seen many Heralds either. The ease of damage application was dowsed quit a bit = Herald had low representation today.
    4. With Mesmer & Herald builds showing less representation, which are the 2 big counters vs. Soulbeast, Rangers are actually fairing better now than they ever have, despite the loss in damage from Sic Em. Even when a Mirage is present, the current Condi Mantra is more of a + build than a 1v1 duelist, so it isn't countering Rangers in the way it used to. The only thing threatening Rangers now, are other Rangers, Spellbreakers and sometimes good Core Guard/Thief play, in terms of what can meet a good Ranger toe to toe in a 1v1 on equal ground or possibly counter it. But these builds are in no way as hard of counters to Ranger has Herald & Mirage used to be.
    5. Scrapper is dead competitively, alongside of Druid. This last patch absolutely removed them from any form of viable play. So no more super side node defense.
    6. This means Bunker side node play is gone again. Side node play is now 1v1 duelist DPS styled play.
    7. Eles seemed to be very present today, in the contest to figure out the new hierarchy and rock/paper/scissors of side nodding.
    8. People straying away from team fight builds. I seen a low representation of FB/Scourge/Reaper today. I was a bit confused, not too sure why that was happening. I understand hit to Reaper sustain, but lack of FB/Scourge was odd.
    9. Saw an unusually high representation of Ele/Thief/Ranger/Core Guard.
    10. Spellbreaker/Holo representation seemed normal.

    Honestly this patch changed a lot in terms of what is going to be able to counter what, what is safe to use now because some other builds aren't present, and which builds can no longer counter certain things due to nerfs. I guess we'll see what happens in the next 2 weeks.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2019

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 Just keep in mind, you need to wait a couple of days for things to settle. When they added a new skill to core rev I saw an increase in core rev in the next 3 days after the patch. It is safe to say it did not work out and everyone went back to power herald.

    I also played 6-7 games yesterday, and seen only 2 ele and 1 ranger (ironically playing druid with no staff). It is different than what you have seen and honestly, unless you played 100+ games it is not easy to tell frequently played builds. We just need to wait. Outside of ousting of scrapper (which I am not sure about yet, but seems so), the meta is probably going to remain the same. Just give it a week.

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524 Just keep in mind, you need to wait a couple of days for things to settle. When they added a new skill to core rev I saw an increase in core rev in the next 3 days after the patch. It is safe to say it did not work out and everyone went back to power herald.

    Yea, the little PvP I played yesterday was experimenting with builds stuff and certainly not nearly representative of what I will be doing/playing in the future.

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:
    After 3 matches PvP I can already see that core guardian has now been buffed to god mode. This ignorance towards PvP balance is really a shame.

    Highly skilled core guardian are testing out the new stuff. I played 3-4 games with core guardian, it is unviable as it was before.

    Well just had bad luck with 3-4 core guards in my first matches - twice a top player in opponent team. Guess condi mirage its much more cancer in PvP.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭

    I think they messed up with the -300 vitality on scrapper they should have returned it with one of grandmaster traits that doesn't help help the most, so like berserker where you have to pick the damage buff but get wrecked or the defense buff and lose the damage. If anything the -300 vitality should have been on holo since its whole point is being burst damage speck, but it has really good defenses. I think people that played scrapper in pvp might move to the prot holo build since it might be easier to play vs the scrapper that seems to require effort to play. Or i'm wrong and someone makes some broken build again and everyone suffers for 3 to 6 months.

  • Darth.7623Darth.7623 Member ✭✭

    ANET finally nerfing especs, but the wrong ones. Maybe they'll redeem themselves and balance the rest in line with Druid, Chrono, and Scrapper?

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