What is the population of Tyria . . ? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

What is the population of Tyria . . ?

Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

Not sure if this is the right place to ask but I figured this is the place where ppl would be most likely to have an opinion, so what do you imagine the population of Tyria to be? Is your opinion pretty much just a guess or do we have information on anet regarding this? I'm not sure what made me wonder but I've been thinking about it for a few days now . . .

If you just count up everyone you see, even including unnamed npcs you'd only get maybe a few thousand individuals. Counting residences even in DR which I'd guess looks the most densely populated you've only got maybe a few hundred homes? I've always thought of the cities as more representative than literal but idk what numbers they are supposed to be representing . . .

Anyway, I'm just curious . . .

Comments

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    I wouldn’t expect it to be significantly large as Tyria is only like 14(?) miles wide.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    Keep in mind that the entire outer wall of DR is houses too :) As impractical as that would be defense wise. It's definitely housing all the way up there.

    Well, impractical only because it can't be used to fire stuff from, living up there should be pretty safe as it's too high to ever be in reach of any attacks lol

    NPCs are just a stand in for the thousands of other people that would live in the world. Remember that gameplay and lore are separate, because just imagine how large a city would be if you could actually see every single house. It's impressive how many there actually are to be quite honest.

    Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    No precise numbers are ever really given.

    IIRC, a side remark by a dev commented that Lion's Arch's population was compared to Renaissance period Paris populations (which was approx. 350,000) before the Attack on Lion's Arch, with about a... I wanna say 35% survival rate, which is why there's so much open space in rebuilt LA that was turned into seaworld. Another comment about populations noted that enemy factions like the Nightmare Court make up ~15% of the playable races' populations.

    This was said a long time ago, so I'm not 100% sure if I remember correctly, and no doubt the comments have been lost to time on the internet. And even then, ArenaNet treats such comments (especially if not cited on the wiki) with little validity. But I'd imagine that the other capital cities would be similar (or at least, DR, Ebonhawke, Rata Sum, and Black Citadel).

    Some folks did try to do some math for the charr High Legions' numbers based off of the size of warbands (5-25 members usually) and how many legionnaires follow a centurion, and how many centurions are under a tribune, etc. but the numbers always fell unrealistically short (we also have to make guesses, more often than not, about how many officers are under a superior).

    But overall, for Central Tyria, I'd imagine that the populations would be close to Medieval / Renaissance Europe. Though a lot more hygienic since sewers exist.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I wouldn’t expect it to be significantly large as Tyria is only like 14(?) miles wide.

    It's definitely wider than that. Keep in mind that the distances we see in-game are not to scale for lore, by a long way. And skill measurements are also off. Some dungeons, such as Caudecus' Manor and Crucible of Eternity, are probably closer to scale towards lore than most open world maps; the latter is large enough when comparing map sizes with centralizing the two points, to cover the entirety of Nonmoa Lake in Timberline Falls.

    EDIT: And that's just structural comparisons, and not countryside downscaling, and even the dungeons are very likely to be downscaled at least a little.

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    All these squares make a circle.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    No precise numbers are ever really given.

    IIRC, a side remark by a dev commented that Lion's Arch's population was compared to Renaissance period Paris populations (which was approx. 350,000) before the Attack on Lion's Arch, with about a... I wanna say 35% survival rate, which is why there's so much open space in rebuilt LA that was turned into seaworld. Another comment about populations noted that enemy factions like the Nightmare Court make up ~15% of the playable races' populations.

    This was said a long time ago, so I'm not 100% sure if I remember correctly, and no doubt the comments have been lost to time on the internet. And even then, ArenaNet treats such comments (especially if not cited on the wiki) with little validity. But I'd imagine that the other capital cities would be similar (or at least, DR, Ebonhawke, Rata Sum, and Black Citadel).

    Some folks did try to do some math for the charr High Legions' numbers based off of the size of warbands (5-25 members usually) and how many legionnaires follow a centurion, and how many centurions are under a tribune, etc. but the numbers always fell unrealistically short (we also have to make guesses, more often than not, about how many officers are under a superior).

    But overall, for Central Tyria, I'd imagine that the populations would be close to Medieval / Renaissance Europe. Though a lot more hygienic since sewers exist.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I wouldn’t expect it to be significantly large as Tyria is only like 14(?) miles wide.

    It's definitely wider than that. Keep in mind that the distances we see in-game are not to scale for lore, by a long way. And skill measurements are also off. Some dungeons, such as Caudecus' Manor and Crucible of Eternity, are probably closer to scale towards lore than most open world maps; the latter is large enough when comparing map sizes with centralizing the two points, to cover the entirety of Nonmoa Lake in Timberline Falls.

    I was basing it off this which appears to say 12.4 miles

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/API:Maps#Trivia

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I was basing it off this which appears to say 12.4 miles

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/API:Maps#Trivia

    Again, that's mechanical scaling. The map's going to be downscaled and squished in various parts and places. The countryside will be shrunk down a lot more than buildings since buildings will have doorways and rooms players would be able to enter but expanding those 10x would be silly in 90% of the cases.

    Comparing dungeon to open world of the same structure is about twice the size, and even the dungeons are no doubt downscaled a bit for the sake of playability.

    Twilight Arbor might be the most prime example: there's practically zero room for it to exist in the open world, so it may very well be a 1:1 scale mechanic:lore in the dungeon, and we would expect that large place to exist between the three zones of Metrica, Brisban, and Caledon once the open world upscales and unstretch to match that 1:1 scaling.

    On top of that, we could expect different maps to scale differently - Southsun Cove was introduced as an undiscovered island, but there's no way that's possible, even with it still being volcanic as it's hardened; even with the risen making sea travel a hindrance, if it was to scale with the rest of Tyria, there's just simply no way it remained undiscovered for even half a decade. Southsun may be scaled entirely to a 1:1 mechanic:lore scale, but the rest of Tyria wouldn't be, and in the end Southsun would just be a small island in the wide sea, invisible even from the coast of Caledon despite being practically adjacent to it in the mechanical map.

    EDIT: GW1 had a very similar - but smaller, iirc - mechanical scaling. IIRC, GW1's map was measured to be ~7.8 miles wide.

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    All these squares make a circle.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    Well, impractical only because it can't be used to fire stuff from, living up there should be pretty safe as it's too high to ever be in reach of any attacks lol

    Yet in season 3, bloodstone bombardments go WAY over those walls and strike the Upper City area.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    No precise numbers are ever really given.

    IIRC, a side remark by a dev commented that Lion's Arch's population was compared to Renaissance period Paris populations (which was approx. 350,000) before the Attack on Lion's Arch, with about a... I wanna say 35% survival rate, which is why there's so much open space in rebuilt LA that was turned into seaworld. Another comment about populations noted that enemy factions like the Nightmare Court make up ~15% of the playable races' populations.

    This was said a long time ago, so I'm not 100% sure if I remember correctly, and no doubt the comments have been lost to time on the internet. And even then, ArenaNet treats such comments (especially if not cited on the wiki) with little validity. But I'd imagine that the other capital cities would be similar (or at least, DR, Ebonhawke, Rata Sum, and Black Citadel).

    Some folks did try to do some math for the charr High Legions' numbers based off of the size of warbands (5-25 members usually) and how many legionnaires follow a centurion, and how many centurions are under a tribune, etc. but the numbers always fell unrealistically short (we also have to make guesses, more often than not, about how many officers are under a superior).

    But overall, for Central Tyria, I'd imagine that the populations would be close to Medieval / Renaissance Europe. Though a lot more hygienic since sewers exist.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I wouldn’t expect it to be significantly large as Tyria is only like 14(?) miles wide.

    It's definitely wider than that. Keep in mind that the distances we see in-game are not to scale for lore, by a long way. And skill measurements are also off. Some dungeons, such as Caudecus' Manor and Crucible of Eternity, are probably closer to scale towards lore than most open world maps; the latter is large enough when comparing map sizes with centralizing the two points, to cover the entirety of Nonmoa Lake in Timberline Falls.

    I was basing it off this which appears to say 12.4 miles

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/API:Maps#Trivia

    Ascalon alone is many miles to get from Ebonhawke to Ascalon - we get a pretty decent feel of distances and scale in Ghosts of Ascalon.

    I would expect 14 miles to cover maybe 1-2 zones, although in theory zones will probably vary wildly without necs accurately representing it in game. Whatever the wiki/API is referring to, I'd disregard it for actual lore size

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  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    No precise numbers are ever really given.

    IIRC, a side remark by a dev commented that Lion's Arch's population was compared to Renaissance period Paris populations (which was approx. 350,000) before the Attack on Lion's Arch, with about a... I wanna say 35% survival rate, which is why there's so much open space in rebuilt LA that was turned into seaworld. Another comment about populations noted that enemy factions like the Nightmare Court make up ~15% of the playable races' populations.

    This was said a long time ago, so I'm not 100% sure if I remember correctly, and no doubt the comments have been lost to time on the internet. And even then, ArenaNet treats such comments (especially if not cited on the wiki) with little validity. But I'd imagine that the other capital cities would be similar (or at least, DR, Ebonhawke, Rata Sum, and Black Citadel).

    Some folks did try to do some math for the charr High Legions' numbers based off of the size of warbands (5-25 members usually) and how many legionnaires follow a centurion, and how many centurions are under a tribune, etc. but the numbers always fell unrealistically short (we also have to make guesses, more often than not, about how many officers are under a superior).

    But overall, for Central Tyria, I'd imagine that the populations would be close to Medieval / Renaissance Europe. Though a lot more hygienic since sewers exist.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I wouldn’t expect it to be significantly large as Tyria is only like 14(?) miles wide.

    It's definitely wider than that. Keep in mind that the distances we see in-game are not to scale for lore, by a long way. And skill measurements are also off. Some dungeons, such as Caudecus' Manor and Crucible of Eternity, are probably closer to scale towards lore than most open world maps; the latter is large enough when comparing map sizes with centralizing the two points, to cover the entirety of Nonmoa Lake in Timberline Falls.

    I was basing it off this which appears to say 12.4 miles

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/API:Maps#Trivia

    Ascalon alone is many miles to get from Ebonhawke to Ascalon - we get a pretty decent feel of distances and scale in Ghosts of Ascalon.

    I would expect 14 miles to cover maybe 1-2 zones, although in theory zones will probably vary wildly without necs accurately representing it in game. Whatever the wiki/API is referring to, I'd disregard it for actual lore size

    Well going strictly by lore will prove difficult as I don’t think any numbers were given and the closest we have would be travel times given in the books.

  • Ultramex.1506Ultramex.1506 Member ✭✭✭

    Don't know exactly the population of Tyria but i believe it decline everyday due to death of Inquest/Bandit/Awakened/Fire Legion/Nightmare Court/Pirate and other people due to failed event, branded by Kralk and corrupted by Jormag.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    amazing is the ebonhawke from artistic loading screen. i just wish our ebonhawke in-game was like that.

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  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    No precise numbers are ever really given.

    IIRC, a side remark by a dev commented that Lion's Arch's population was compared to Renaissance period Paris populations (which was approx. 350,000) before the Attack on Lion's Arch, with about a... I wanna say 35% survival rate, which is why there's so much open space in rebuilt LA that was turned into seaworld. Another comment about populations noted that enemy factions like the Nightmare Court make up ~15% of the playable races' populations.

    This was said a long time ago, so I'm not 100% sure if I remember correctly, and no doubt the comments have been lost to time on the internet. And even then, ArenaNet treats such comments (especially if not cited on the wiki) with little validity. But I'd imagine that the other capital cities would be similar (or at least, DR, Ebonhawke, Rata Sum, and Black Citadel).

    Some folks did try to do some math for the charr High Legions' numbers based off of the size of warbands (5-25 members usually) and how many legionnaires follow a centurion, and how many centurions are under a tribune, etc. but the numbers always fell unrealistically short (we also have to make guesses, more often than not, about how many officers are under a superior).

    But overall, for Central Tyria, I'd imagine that the populations would be close to Medieval / Renaissance Europe. Though a lot more hygienic since sewers exist.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I wouldn’t expect it to be significantly large as Tyria is only like 14(?) miles wide.

    It's definitely wider than that. Keep in mind that the distances we see in-game are not to scale for lore, by a long way. And skill measurements are also off. Some dungeons, such as Caudecus' Manor and Crucible of Eternity, are probably closer to scale towards lore than most open world maps; the latter is large enough when comparing map sizes with centralizing the two points, to cover the entirety of Nonmoa Lake in Timberline Falls.

    I was basing it off this which appears to say 12.4 miles

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/API:Maps#Trivia

    Ascalon alone is many miles to get from Ebonhawke to Ascalon - we get a pretty decent feel of distances and scale in Ghosts of Ascalon.

    I would expect 14 miles to cover maybe 1-2 zones, although in theory zones will probably vary wildly without necs accurately representing it in game. Whatever the wiki/API is referring to, I'd disregard it for actual lore size

    Well going strictly by lore will prove difficult as I don’t think any numbers were given and the closest we have would be travel times given in the books.

    Indeed. It would be interesting to find out the Devs have an internal scale for the entire playable area. I'd be surprised if they didn't to be honest.

    Someone post waffle pictures - see if it summons a lore dev...

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    No precise numbers are ever really given.

    IIRC, a side remark by a dev commented that Lion's Arch's population was compared to Renaissance period Paris populations (which was approx. 350,000) before the Attack on Lion's Arch, with about a... I wanna say 35% survival rate, which is why there's so much open space in rebuilt LA that was turned into seaworld. Another comment about populations noted that enemy factions like the Nightmare Court make up ~15% of the playable races' populations.

    This was said a long time ago, so I'm not 100% sure if I remember correctly, and no doubt the comments have been lost to time on the internet. And even then, ArenaNet treats such comments (especially if not cited on the wiki) with little validity. But I'd imagine that the other capital cities would be similar (or at least, DR, Ebonhawke, Rata Sum, and Black Citadel).

    Some folks did try to do some math for the charr High Legions' numbers based off of the size of warbands (5-25 members usually) and how many legionnaires follow a centurion, and how many centurions are under a tribune, etc. but the numbers always fell unrealistically short (we also have to make guesses, more often than not, about how many officers are under a superior).

    But overall, for Central Tyria, I'd imagine that the populations would be close to Medieval / Renaissance Europe. Though a lot more hygienic since sewers exist.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I wouldn’t expect it to be significantly large as Tyria is only like 14(?) miles wide.

    It's definitely wider than that. Keep in mind that the distances we see in-game are not to scale for lore, by a long way. And skill measurements are also off. Some dungeons, such as Caudecus' Manor and Crucible of Eternity, are probably closer to scale towards lore than most open world maps; the latter is large enough when comparing map sizes with centralizing the two points, to cover the entirety of Nonmoa Lake in Timberline Falls.

    I was basing it off this which appears to say 12.4 miles

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/API:Maps#Trivia

    Ascalon alone is many miles to get from Ebonhawke to Ascalon - we get a pretty decent feel of distances and scale in Ghosts of Ascalon.

    I would expect 14 miles to cover maybe 1-2 zones, although in theory zones will probably vary wildly without necs accurately representing it in game. Whatever the wiki/API is referring to, I'd disregard it for actual lore size

    Well going strictly by lore will prove difficult as I don’t think any numbers were given and the closest we have would be travel times given in the books.

    Indeed. It would be interesting to find out the Devs have an internal scale for the entire playable area. I'd be surprised if they didn't to be honest.

    Someone post waffle pictures - see if it summons a lore dev...

    If the studio were using a standard scale we would see evidence of it in the design of zones. It would be impossible to convert a naturally shaped zone into a rectangle and use a standardized scale.

    Who would we include in the term population? It seems to me that the term population is related to sapience and that we would have to include the non-playable races such as the Skritt and Centaur. If so, the population of Tyria could easily be in the billions. I would approach the math by estimating the population of the largest race (likely humans) and then comparing the other races to that largest race, then add them together.

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