Chronomancer Shatter illusion Requirement

Just from the title, that essentially tells me that A-net doesn't believe that there isn't any downside to shattering via illusionary persona "baseline since June 2015". Here's a good example, Say you're fighting someone with no clones and you're about to get hit by a engi with no stab by holo 5, if you're out of dodges and have nothing left before you can blow a 38 second cooldown "diversion" to daze the and prevent the damage, or blind the attack "if you have blinding dissipation traited" via cry of frustration, however the value you'd get without any illusions up are slim to none compared to if you'd have max clones, that's the drawback. And if you happen to be fighting something that has a lot of cleave in a 1v1, or has a lot of cleave in the midfight, then your class mechanic is essentially disabled because there's a threshold for you need to even use it.

Countless

Swipe has a threshold too. You got the tradeoff. A Chronomancer with no clones, get real. If one exists, good. Nothing better than a dead mesmer in a pvp match.

@"Gundam Style.8495" said:Swipe has a threshold too. You got the tradeoff. A Chronomancer with no clones, get real. If one exists, good. Nothing better than a dead mesmer in a pvp match.

You don't seem to understand friend, read it again, slowly. This has nothing to do with swipe. The trade off was getting low value based on how many illusions were shattered, yourself being 1"IP" , to 4 "max illusions + u". Also it defeats the purpose of making illusionary persona baseline if they're going to make exceptions to the rule.

@Trigr.6481 said:

@"Gundam Style.8495" said:Swipe has a threshold too. You got the tradeoff. A Chronomancer with no clones, get real. If one exists, good. Nothing better than a dead mesmer in a pvp match.

It's part of the trade off of chrono now. I was was pointing out a clear example of how profession mechanics change, even baseline, when you take an elite spec. This is the new philosophy, and I assume they are not done yet. Time to adapt. So, to recap, this isn't an exception, this is part of the chrono trade off friend.

@Gundam Style.8495 said:

@Trigr.6481 said:

@Gundam Style.8495 said:Swipe has a threshold too. You got the tradeoff. A Chronomancer with no clones, get real. If one exists, good. Nothing better than a dead mesmer in a pvp match.

If your version of a tradeoff is not thinking it through, then I'd be inclined to agree with you.

Getting low value for popping up the skill without clones isn't a trade off. It's a free skill that gives you benefit (even if it's small) for no investment.

To pop it up, you didn't have to sacrifice anything, so this is not a trade off.That is just the way it is. I am hoping to see rest of classes treated this way.There should not be always the way to be able to escape. Sometimes you're just out of dodges and CDs and that's what has to happen - Mesmer, Engi and Warrior have this kind of unhealthy weird escape potential which lets them disengage too good and still perform great.

More trade offs is good.

I must have missed the memo that said thieves also got double trade-off. Because chronos lost both IP and Distortion.Swipe is godly if you compare it with no IP on chronos, no IP essentially means less damage less utility, no F3 to f1 combo from stealth and so on.

@Gundam Style.8495 said:

It's part of the trade off of chrono now.

And a bad one, because it will just add frustration and nothing interesting. The goal should be to alter how the class plays and surely chrono already plays very different from the base class. But this single change will make it annoying without any reason.

Double trade off ... and what trade off.... take away something that made mesmer playable as class??? New shatters must be insane strong to compensate this

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:I must have missed the memo that said thieves also got double trade-off. Because chronos lost both IP and Distortion.Swipe is godly if you compare it with no IP on chronos, no IP essentially means less damage less utility, no F3 to f1 combo from stealth and so on.

To be honest, people keep talking about Distortion. The real trade-off is that all Shatters are replaced. Losing F4 for former F5 is not the trade-off per se. It is only a loss in power vs. the current status quo. Personally, I'm on board with this.

Now, the thing with IP on other hand is just silly. I can see how this is a convient topic for salty mains of other classes but it's just not reasonable from a design - not performance - point of view. It was made baseline because Mesmers were unable to use their class-mechanic in different situations and this hasn't really changed. Period. Conclusively, this aspect of the class shouldn't change for e-specs unless they have a totally different mechanic. Which clearly is not the case fo Chronomancers. ANet should just make the baseline Chrono-Shatters weak damage-wise and emphasize damage through a scaling number of Illusions. It also would save them the balancing mess of adjusting all Shatter related traits for Chronomancers (balancing around 3 Illusions vs. 3 + Mesmer).

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:I must have missed the memo that said thieves also got double trade-off. Because chronos lost both IP and Distortion.Swipe is godly if you compare it with no IP on chronos, no IP essentially means less damage less utility, no F3 to f1 combo from stealth and so on.

Shatters are still the same but with a different name.As for the IP I agree, anyone that played before Hot knows that there is no pvp without IP. Condi still works although it's still a hard nerf - stuff as staff 2 shatter for a quick 2 clone shatter is dead as a chrono (condi chrono is already dead but for the sake of example) but power shatter its straight impossible without IP.They just killed a combo used since 2012 on chronos, the combo that all power shatter relies on.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Shatters are still the same but with a different name.

I'm very inclined to agree even though we don't know the numbers.

However, they still are different - at least as much as Swipe is different from Steal, to be honest. There are conditions which will make you play slightly different. F1 sounds uninspired... F2 could be interesting. We will see. But yes... that's probably not enough. I was expecting something more significant (e.g. the extend DH Virtues change) as mentioned somewhere else.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:They just killed a combo used since 2012 on chronos, the combo that all power shatter relies on.

I don't care about established combos. If you care about stuff like that things will never change and get stale. However, this certainly is a good example why IP is so important for Mesmers.

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:They just killed a combo used since 2012 on chronos, the combo that all power shatter relies on.

Calling IP an "established combo" that if you care about will cause things to get stale is enormously disingenuous. IP is not a "combo", it is a baseline mechanic that shatter requires to be functional in multiple areas of the game. Removing it is not making things less stale, it's just disabling shatter on chronos.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:They just killed a combo used since 2012 on chronos, the combo that all power shatter relies on.

Nobody was calling IP a combo. He was referring to a combo and I said that I don't care about specific combos if those are sole arguements. I didn't say I don't care about IP and what it does in general.

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:They just killed a combo used since 2012 on chronos, the combo that all power shatter relies on.

He was literally talking about IP. Not sure if you're just being intentionally obtuse or what...

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:He was literally talking about IP. Not sure if you're just being intentionally obtuse or what...

In the part I quoted, he is talking about a specific combo. All I said is that I don't care about specific combos as justification (or rejection) for possible changes. It lacks context. Regardless wether the combo needs IP or not. My stance towards IP is quite clear: I disapprove of the teased changes.