Shield Update - Trident Treatment (FoN inspired) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Shield Update - Trident Treatment (FoN inspired)

DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited July 15, 2019 in Revenant

Hey there,

I think that Herald's shield is a weapon that could be given Trident Treatment, this way its effects would change based on currently invoked legend.
Why so? Well, Facet of Nature works exacrly like this, why not dive deeper into this mechanic?

Ofc, I would like all of Rev's weapons to change based on legend. We'd have additional small mechanic to think about and use it to our advantage.
But for me the Shield is most likely.

Only skill I'd change completely is 4:

Envoy of Exuberance.

I think it could function better if it (as some already suggested) spit a cone-shaped dragonflame (or smth), so it doesn't bug.
Or it can also work like Guardian Staff 3, crystalizing 240 radius area for 3 s.

Crystal Hibernation Begin hibernation and cause area around you (240 radius) to pulse heal and a Condition depending on your current legend.

  • Block duration: 3s
  • Pulses: 4
  • Root stays
  • Heal: 750 (midground between HoT and nerfed version).

Suggestion for legend-based effects:

Crystal Hibernation: Begin hibernation and heal yourself. Inflict foes around you with Condition based on your current legend
- Glint - Apply X of Burn
- Jalis- Apply Weakness
- Shiro - Apply Slow or Vulnerability
- Mallyx - Apply Chill (since you can combo it with Trait)
- Ventari - Apply Immobilize (You are most likely a healer + rooted and blocking, so that's a little CC bonus)

Envoy of Exuberance: - Channel dragonflame in a cone in front of you. Apply boons depending on current legend.
- Glint -Heal and apply Protection (1.5 - 2s/ pulse)
- Jalis - Heal and apply Retaliation (1.5 - 2s/ pulse)
- Shiro - Heal and apply Fury or Might (1.5 - 2s/ pulse) OR Quickness (1s/ pulse)
- Mallyx - Heal and apply Resistance (1.5 - 2s/ pulse)

So, if you want to use shield as a healing / utility tool you are always getting it, but now you can play around with the legends to get the bonus you want. This way Shield stays pretty much the same in the way you play with it but your 4 and 5 are now offensive and defensive.
I thought of applying boons while you channel Crystal Hibernation but this way, you wouldn't get anything of them. Pulsing conditions gives your foes a reason to stay away when you begin healing - instead of charging you with 100% unblockable. They will eventually, but eh - what do we have to lose with a shield?

  • Stays very similar to original design.
  • Less clunky
  • More reliable
  • Root still here
  • More interaction with Legends similar to Facet of Nature
  • More crystals = more Glint

What are your thoughts? I know you guys will have some suggestions but I want to keep things similar, so ANet doesn't have to change and redesign skills completely, so they are unrecognizable.

How can we design / update around CURRENT shield mechanics but make it more fun and usable?

Comments

  • LucianTheAngelic.7054LucianTheAngelic.7054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don’t want the trident treatment applied to any other weapons. It promotes very clear “best in slot” or “best use” scenarios. For example, Trident provides very clear damage advantages while in Glint or Mallyx. True Nature is also unequivocally better in Shiro than Glint. There is almost always a one use scenario for skills that have this treatment where you’re straight up losing potential advantage by using the skill outside of the “best in slot” legend.

    Ofc the easy reply is “balance will fix the imbalances” but balance patches are far too infrequent and don’t address enough things for that to be a good/realistic/practical argument. That doesn’t even factor in the fact that perfect balance is unachievable, so there will always be a “best use” scenario regardless of how good the balance is

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 15, 2019

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    I don’t want the trident treatment applied to any other weapons. It promotes very clear “best in slot” or “best use” scenarios. For example, Trident provides very clear damage advantages while in Glint or Mallyx. True Nature is also unequivocally better in Shiro than Glint. There is almost always a one use scenario for skills that have this treatment where you’re straight up losing potential advantage by using the skill outside of the “best in slot” legend.

    Ofc the easy reply is “balance will fix the imbalances” but balance patches are far too infrequent and don’t address enough things for that to be a good/realistic/practical argument. That doesn’t even factor in the fact that perfect balance is unachievable, so there will always be a “best use” scenario regardless of how good the balance is

    Well, the effects provided in the thread would be all the shield gets. Since Shield isn't an offensive weapon you don't benefit from getting the most of a particular legend damage-wise. It still provides you with the exactly same healing skill but now you have an option to choose what additions to heal you want to have.

    Currently Shield 5 only heals, and Shield 4 heals and gives protection - what do you have to lose?
    Applying Trident Treatment is a win/win for shield because you only gain access to more things. You don't lose a single thing except Protection on 4 (out of Glint).

    And while I understand your concerns, I don't really get what's bad about the idea. This is a win / win situation for the shield, seems to me.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭

    I think it might be cool if Shiro shield 5 did some Jade winds like kitten and stun people near him for half a second per pulse in addition to Vuln.

    Also might be fun if Mallyx absorbed Conditions while pulsing, then exploded for how many Conditions he was holding and cleanses them all off.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2019

    Oh my I like that.

    But shield is elite spec designated for herald/glint imo would would not make much sense.

    Altought some core weapons could that that treatment xd

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Oh my I like that.

    But shield is elite spec designated for herald/glint imo would would not make much sense.

    Altought some core weapons could that that treatment xd

    I thought it could work well with the current FoN functionality which also changes based on legend.

    Herald feels most fitting for every Build since it gives a bit of support, offense, defense and Condi. So this could actually work!

    I am a fan of Trident functionality. It feels fresh and different each time you swap Legends. And for people saying that this would lead to 'always sticking to most DPS legend" - well?? So be it. It's not like Jalis, Ventari, Kalla or Glint were designed for DPS.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DonArkanio.6419 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Oh my I like that.

    But shield is elite spec designated for herald/glint imo would would not make much sense.

    Altought some core weapons could that that treatment xd

    I thought it could work well with the current FoN functionality which also changes based on legend.

    Herald feels most fitting for every Build since it gives a bit of support, offense, defense and Condi. So this could actually work!

    I am a fan of Trident functionality. It feels fresh and different each time you swap Legends. And for people saying that this would lead to 'always sticking to most DPS legend" - well?? So be it. It's not like Jalis, Ventari, Kalla or Glint were designed for DPS.

    Good point on saying herald fits everithing, In that aspected I can imagine it working.

  • Scoobaniec.9561Scoobaniec.9561 Member ✭✭✭

    If you play pure condi build your damage is 0 outside of Mallyx. So no ty

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:
    If you play pure condi build your damage is 0 outside of Mallyx. So no ty

    But do you play with Shield anyway? We aren't losing anything actually with the (im)possibile Shield rework.
    I can see how Trident system could harm certain builds, and I understand it. I just like the concept of ultimate hybrid and if not the entire classz the Herald fits it somehow perfectly on Rev.

  • @DonArkanio.6419 said:
    I am a fan of Trident functionality. It feels fresh and different each time you swap Legends. And for people saying that this would lead to 'always sticking to most DPS legend" - well?? So be it. It's not like Jalis, Ventari, Kalla or Glint were designed for DPS.

    Kalla is literally designed for DPS/utility tho...

  • Scoobaniec.9561Scoobaniec.9561 Member ✭✭✭

    @DonArkanio.6419 said:

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:
    If you play pure condi build your damage is 0 outside of Mallyx. So no ty

    But do you play with Shield anyway? We aren't losing anything actually with the (im)possibile Shield rework.
    I can see how Trident system could harm certain builds, and I understand it. I just like the concept of ultimate hybrid and if not the entire classz the Herald fits it somehow perfectly on Rev.

    Never played with shield even when it was meta. I always foud offhand sword block to be superior due to being mobile+on shorter cd

    Shield needs buffs/rework but trident treatment is not one of them

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @DonArkanio.6419 said:
    I am a fan of Trident functionality. It feels fresh and different each time you swap Legends. And for people saying that this would lead to 'always sticking to most DPS legend" - well?? So be it. It's not like Jalis, Ventari, Kalla or Glint were designed for DPS.

    Kalla is literally designed for DPS/utility tho...

    Okay then. But that doesn't change much here. Shield still could work as a utility weapon functioning like FoN. I think this would just fit the Herald best and see if this kind of concept could work with a land-weapon. No harm done to current Rev's kit.

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2019

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @DonArkanio.6419 said:

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:
    If you play pure condi build your damage is 0 outside of Mallyx. So no ty

    But do you play with Shield anyway? We aren't losing anything actually with the (im)possibile Shield rework.
    I can see how Trident system could harm certain builds, and I understand it. I just like the concept of ultimate hybrid and if not the entire classz the Herald fits it somehow perfectly on Rev.

    Never played with shield even when it was meta. I always foud offhand sword block to be superior due to being mobile+on shorter cd

    Shield needs buffs/rework but trident treatment is not one of them

    Well, then whatever happens to Shield doesn't really matter. I mean, Trident Shield would work with the Herald best imo. And it's actually the best way to see if this concept could work with a land-weapon.

    No Rev Build would suffer from it since I don't know any which utilizes Shield to the point it's essential to Build.

    And you could actually benefit from using either Mallyx, Ventari or Shiro.

    I know you might just not like this concept, but I think it could work and let us use this kitten weapon finally.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Shield badly needs -any- form of improvement. Currently its completely worthless. They shouldve had warhorn instead to be a herald.

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    Shield badly needs -any- form of improvement. Currently its completely worthless. They shouldve had warhorn instead to be a herald.

    That was my first thought! I even thought of giving the idea about Warhorn but the changes that would happen are non-existent. Herald = Warhorn, logical. Ugh, that is such a miss.

    Shield is cool but it has to be designed 99% around utility and defense. Warhorn on the other side can be pretty much anything - Tempest - and would fit the theme so much better. It could work just like Devs want Herald to work.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2019

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:
    If you play pure condi build your damage is 0 outside of Mallyx. So no ty

    And we already have renegade to combine with deamon.
    They combine quite well.

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I really want Shield improvement. Shield is by far best legendary next behind GS yet it totally sucks on Revenant. I don't even count it as a Revenant weapon it's so bad.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:
    If you play pure condi build your damage is 0 outside of Mallyx. So no ty

    And we already have renegade to combine with deamon.
    They combine quite well.

    Less than you'd think, actually. Razorclaw's Rage is the only Kalla skill that actually uses condition damage, and not a huge amount of that except under ideal conditions. Shortbow and topbar skills are good with condition, but the legend itself doesn't offer much for condi builds.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 12, 2019

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:
    If you play pure condi build your damage is 0 outside of Mallyx. So no ty

    And we already have renegade to combine with deamon.
    They combine quite well.

    Less than you'd think, actually. Razorclaw's Rage is the only Kalla skill that actually uses condition damage, and not a huge amount of that except under ideal conditions. Shortbow and topbar skills are good with condition, but the legend itself doesn't offer much for condi builds.

    Imo it’s hybrid gameplay, at the end I dont want to get carried with condi spam, for me it’s ok.

    For that I already have deamon 40 torment stack capable.

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