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Reaper Soul Eater Healing


Sileeent.5861

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After a few tests, I would say that the 5% healing bonus can be completely removed as it is now completely trash.

I would really understand some changes, but now we are in the pretty same direction as before. Why not give 5% barrier instead of healing while being in life force? You can limit the maximum of the barrier to ~3k and start the timer to lose the barrier when you leave Reaper's Shroud. Just an idea, but that could be a good compromise.

Reaper was nowhere meta and doesn't deserve to get worse. As I said before, I understand that changes have been made here. But I think these changes are too strict.

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Removing the soul eater heal in shroud without giving any trade-off back for either defences or damage was a mistake in all game modes and just a giant middle finger to all reapers.

In pvp and pve Reaper is no where near the survival levels of any other melee elite, and all of them deal just as much (if not more) damage than reapers.

My suggestion would be to restore the heal in shroud, but make it heal for 10% of the damage dealt but single target only. This would help in PvP without it being too strong in pve

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It's still okay for a master trait. Reaper is just forced back to run paladin amulet if you plan to be competitive at duells. Just don't even try at marauder...

Dark Path/Pursuit is actually pretty good. If the autoattack wasn't that dull. I can not play core because of that crappy autoattack. It kills all the fun. the rest of core shroud is okay now and core has the most build diversity of all necro specialisations.

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@KrHome.1920 said:It's still okay for a master trait. Reaper is just forced back to run paladin amulet if you plan to be competitive at duells. Just don't even try at marauder...

Dark Path/Pursuit is actually pretty good. If the autoattack wasn't that dull. I can not play core because of that crappy autoattack. It kills all the fun. the rest of core shroud is okay now and core has the most build diversity of all necro specialisations.

You only talk about PvP. But the numbers of players there is pretty low in comparison to PvE, and the impact there is almost negligible, since you get forced to play Scourge anyway at some point.

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Me too, I Don't understand this severity towards the reaper. The little survival he has is quickly reduced. This was already the case with "rise".

@"Stephane Lo Presti.7258" " said:the Soul Eater trait is providing a little too much survivability.A little too much survivability ! It's a joke ! That's what was missing, survivability; apart from the life point and life siphon, that's all the reaper has. Or increase "soul eater" to 10% Healing as "parasitic contagion".

Signed French not happy

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I understand that necro shouldn't benefit from direct heal while in shroud but nerfing the life steal from soul eater to make it mismatch other lifesteal effects only adds a bad taste to gameplay and shows a flaw in the class design.

I think that all traits/skills should follow the same logic so all lifesteal traits should either heal or not to heal during shroud. The nerf to Soul Eater was unneccesary but if Anet devs found that 5% lifesteal during shroud was too much, why didn't they just nerf it to 2%-3% inside and outside shroud or remove the healing altogether (because it's now so insignificant) instead of creating this confusion?

Regeneration by the way also have a similar issue: Necro have traits/skills that grant regen (Mark of Blood/Mark of Evasion) but the benefit from this self inflicted boon becomes useless during shroud. In many times, necros do not get full benefit from these supposedly "buff" so either remove regen from these traits OR make regen heal the necro work during shroud just as it works on barriers for scourge.

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@trixantea.1230 said:I understand that necro shouldn't benefit from direct heal while in shroud but nerfing the life steal from soul eater to make it mismatch other lifesteal effects only adds a bad taste to gameplay and shows a flaw in the class design.

I think that all traits/skills should follow the same logic so all lifesteal traits should either heal or not to heal during shroud.

Soul Eater wasn't life stealing. It just healed you for 5% of the damage you dealt. Life stealing is a small amount of extra damage you apply with attacks that have a small amount of healing attached, that does work with Shroud. Soul Eater was (and life stealing still is) an exception to the rule that healing doesn't work when in shroud.

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After further testing, I replaced Soul Eater with Decimate Defenses and changed my GS from Assassin to Berserker and the second sigil from Accuracy to Night. The DPS is generally higher and survivability is almost the same compared to the new Soul Eater. So it looks like Soul Eater is more garbage than I thought...

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@Sileeent.5861 said:After further testing, I replaced Soul Eater with Decimate Defenses and changed my GS from Assassin to Berserker and the second sigil from Accuracy to Night. The DPS is generally higher and survivability is almost the same compared to the new Soul Eater. So it looks like Soul Eater is more garbage than I thought...

But if you were getting higher numbers before with Soul Eater trait, there's no reason you shouldn't still be getting those numbers since the damage modifier is still the same o.O The Night sigil is very circumstantial as that is not a constant 10% buff. What I see that you basically did was have the +10% that would have from Soul Eater coming from Night (if you have force, you have +15% damage from sigils alone during night time) and extra crit damage from Decimate Defenses. But then again that damage, while nice, would be inconsistent.There are ways to get higher DPS than what is benchmarked. For example you could have Bloodlust on one set of weapons and then Force and Night on the other and you would do a lot more damage at night once you get 25 stacks of bloodlust. But it wouldn't be ideal for situations like raids and certain fractals.

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@Sileeent.5861 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:It's still okay for a master trait. Reaper is just forced back to run paladin amulet if you plan to be competitive at duells. Just don't even try at marauder...

Dark Path/Pursuit is actually pretty good. If the autoattack wasn't that dull. I can not play core because of that crappy autoattack. It kills all the fun. the rest of core shroud is okay now and core has the most build diversity of all necro specialisations.

You only talk about PvP. But the numbers of players there is pretty low in comparison to PvE, and the impact there is almost negligible, since you get forced to play Scourge anyway at some point.

Um ... not sure that's true ...

To be fair, the healing you get from Soul Reaper NOW is STILL way better than how it worked when it just gave a flat 200 HP and it's method of healing supports a ballz out DPS approach to play, not some stupid Healing power hybrid build. The bottomline is that if you need it, it's good. if you don't, you play decimate. You couldn't ask for a better choice of traits in Reaper master column. One is totally DPS .. .the other is just more sustain if you need it in the SAME DPs build.

people always QQ about choice ... now you have them.

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@Methuselah.4376 said:

@Sileeent.5861 said:After further testing, I replaced
Soul Eater
with
Decimate Defenses
and changed my GS from
Assassin
to
Berserker
and the second sigil from
Accuracy
to
Night
. The DPS is generally higher and survivability is almost the same compared to the new Soul Eater. So it looks like Soul Eater is more garbage than I thought...

But if you were getting higher numbers before with Soul Eater trait, there's no reason you shouldn't still be getting those numbers since the damage modifier is still the same o.O The Night sigil is very circumstantial as that is not a constant 10% buff. What I see that you basically did was have the +10% that would have from Soul Eater coming from Night (if you have force, you have +15% damage from sigils alone during night time) and extra crit damage from Decimate Defenses. But then again that damage, while nice, would be inconsistent.There are ways to get higher DPS than what is benchmarked. For example you could have Bloodlust on one set of weapons and then Force and Night on the other and you would do a lot more damage at night once you get 25 stacks of bloodlust. But it wouldn't be ideal for situations like raids and certain fractals.

I think I should explain a lot more details.

I haven't tested the DPS at night, so I got only 8% damage buff. Another point is that I have tested Spite + Blood Magic build. I think that Spite + Soul Reaping build would be different because of 33% extra critical buff when in Reaper's Shroud. So Soul Eater should still be more useful there.

Playing fractals and raids is another story. It's also questionable whether the changes are significant there because the sustain you receives from your party. I guess it shouldn't matter If you have a good comp and good mates. So first, I tested scenarios that are far from ideal, where the Soul Eater's heal was important and is now garbage.

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You forget that there are other DPS classes with higher damage and sustain. So the changes are going in the wrong direction. In most areas you already take Scourge instead of Reaper. Should Anet really take away the last of Reaper's identity without any compensation? I don't want to be forced to play Scourge everywhere.

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@Sileeent.5861 said:

@Sileeent.5861 said:After further testing, I replaced
Soul Eater
with
Decimate Defenses
and changed my GS from
Assassin
to
Berserker
and the second sigil from
Accuracy
to
Night
. The DPS is generally higher and survivability is almost the same compared to the new Soul Eater. So it looks like Soul Eater is more garbage than I thought...

But if you were getting higher numbers before with Soul Eater trait, there's no reason you shouldn't still be getting those numbers since the damage modifier is still the same o.O The Night sigil is very circumstantial as that is not a constant 10% buff. What I see that you basically did was have the +10% that would have from Soul Eater coming from Night (if you have force, you have +15% damage from sigils alone during night time) and extra crit damage from Decimate Defenses. But then again that damage, while nice, would be inconsistent.There are ways to get higher DPS than what is benchmarked. For example you could have Bloodlust on one set of weapons and then Force and Night on the other and you would do a lot more damage at night once you get 25 stacks of bloodlust. But it wouldn't be ideal for situations like raids and certain fractals.

I think I should explain a lot more details.

I haven't tested the DPS at night, so I got only 8% damage buff. Another point is that I have tested
Spite
+
Blood Magic
build. I think that
Spite
+
Soul Reaping
build would be different because of 33% extra critical buff when in Reaper's Shroud. So
Soul Eater
should still be more useful there.

Playing fractals and raids is another story. It's also questionable whether the changes are significant there because the sustain you receives from your party. I guess it shouldn't matter If you have a good comp and good mates. So first, I tested scenarios that are far from ideal, where the Soul Eater's heal was important and is now garbage.

Decimate Defense was always better in open world. This never changed.

Have you guys just never played reaper 3 months ago?

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@Lahmia.2193 said:

@"trixantea.1230" said:I understand that necro shouldn't benefit from direct heal while in shroud but nerfing the life steal from soul eater to make it mismatch other lifesteal effects only adds a bad taste to gameplay and shows a flaw in the class design.

I think that all traits/skills should follow the same logic so all lifesteal traits should either heal or not to heal during shroud.

Soul Eater wasn't life stealing. It just healed you for 5% of the damage you dealt. Life stealing is a small amount of extra damage you apply with attacks that have a small amount of healing attached, that does work with Shroud. Soul Eater was (and life stealing still is) an exception to the rule that healing doesn't work when in shroud.

Disagree. If you have played other video games with lifesteal mechanics, you will notice that Liefsteal by definition is to heal Y amount for X damage done. Just because Soul Eater's tooltip doesn't say the exact same word doesn't mean that the mechanics is not the same thing.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_stealing

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@Warscythes.9307:

I think you mean Metabattle's minion master build, who lacks DPS, just to give you more sustain that you would not need if you learn that this game still offers a ability that allows you to prevent incoming damage.

However, who was talking about open world?! Nobody cares what you'll play there... LOLYou shouldn't think that there is a important meta... LMAO

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@Sileeent.5861 said:After further testing, I replaced Soul Eater with Decimate Defenses and changed my GS from Assassin to Berserker and the second sigil from Accuracy to Night. The DPS is generally higher and survivability is almost the same compared to the new Soul Eater. So it looks like Soul Eater is more garbage than I thought...

A link to the build? A clearer view of traits, gear stats, 2nd sigil and rune used etc.

What's the DPS with Soul Eater instead of D.D with Berserker GS + new sigil.

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You forget that there are other DPS classes with higher damage and sustain. So the changes are going in the wrong direction. In most areas you already take Scourge instead of Reaper. Should Anet really take away the last of Reaper's identity without any compensation? I don't want to be forced to play Scourge everywhere.

No I'm not ... that doesn't matter; if you look at the history of changes in this game, it's NEVER mattered. The changes are inline with the theme of the class. Furthermore, Soul Eater healing in shroud was not reaper's 'identity' and if you are taking Scourge over Reaper in most areas, you need to play Reaper better. Finally, no one is going to force you to play Scourge, even meta-loving people.

Anything else?

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@Sileeent.5861 said:@Warscythes.9307:

I think you mean Metabattle's minion master build, who lacks DPS, just to give you more sustain that you would not need if you learn that this game still offers a ability that allows you to prevent incoming damage.

However, who was talking about open world?! Nobody cares what you'll play there... LOLYou shouldn't think that there is a important meta... LMAO

The fact you mentioned spite and blood made me think you are trying to play open world. Why would you ever run blood in fractal or raids? If not, then what exactly are you talking about?

Reaper dps has not changed in raid and fractals. Berserker GS has always been better in any short term fights such as fractals, KC or bosses with low time phases while Assassin is better anywhere else. Soul eater IS better than DD in any organized group format where you can obtain a reliable source of fury but not when you cannot hit the crit cap. This has been common knowledge since soul eater was introduced. So if you are getting better damage with DD, is because you don't high enough crit for soul eater to matter. That's it. So if you are testing in an unoptimized comp, of course your damage would be better with DD than with soul eater. This has been the same before and after the patch.

Don't just mindlessly copy SC builds and don't read/think about why that is.

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@Eramonster.2718 said:

@Sileeent.5861 said:After further testing, I replaced
Soul Eater
with
Decimate Defenses
and changed my GS from
Assassin
to
Berserker
and the second sigil from
Accuracy
to
Night
. The DPS is generally higher and survivability is almost the same compared to the new Soul Eater. So it looks like Soul Eater is more garbage than I thought...

A link to the build? A clearer view of traits, gear stats, 2nd sigil and rune used etc.

What's the DPS with Soul Eater instead of D.D with Berserker GS + new sigil.

That's easy to answer. Going back down to 29k DPS with decimate defenses.

They didn't nerf reaper dmg, but fckd reaper in every PvP mode by removing the healing.While buffing already strong builds for other classes.(Well yeah, some got a nerf as well, but it's mainly buffs)

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@Nimon.7840 said:

@Sileeent.5861 said:After further testing, I replaced
Soul Eater
with
Decimate Defenses
and changed my GS from
Assassin
to
Berserker
and the second sigil from
Accuracy
to
Night
. The DPS is generally higher and survivability is almost the same compared to the new Soul Eater. So it looks like Soul Eater is more garbage than I thought...

A link to the build? A clearer view of traits, gear stats, 2nd sigil and rune used etc.

What's the DPS with Soul Eater instead of D.D with Berserker GS + new sigil.

That's easy to answer. Going back down to 29k DPS with decimate defenses.

They didn't nerf reaper dmg, but fckd reaper in every PvP mode by removing the healing.While buffing already strong builds for other classes.(Well yeah, some got a nerf as well, but it's mainly buffs)

Honestly I have never found soul eater to be good in PvP. The heal is nonexistent since you are never going to hit that much. I tried it out for a couple matches and swapped back to DD. Is just more damage overall and I really don't think a couple hundred more hp every time you enter shroud is what saves you. Reaper was the same spot in PvP before the soul eater change and is the same now. Is not like it got better due to it. The class remains about the same.

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@Warscythes.9307 said:

@Sileeent.5861 said:After further testing, I replaced
Soul Eater
with
Decimate Defenses
and changed my GS from
Assassin
to
Berserker
and the second sigil from
Accuracy
to
Night
. The DPS is generally higher and survivability is almost the same compared to the new Soul Eater. So it looks like Soul Eater is more garbage than I thought...

A link to the build? A clearer view of traits, gear stats, 2nd sigil and rune used etc.

What's the DPS with Soul Eater instead of D.D with Berserker GS + new sigil.

That's easy to answer. Going back down to 29k DPS with decimate defenses.

They didn't nerf reaper dmg, but fckd reaper in every PvP mode by removing the healing.While buffing already strong builds for other classes.(Well yeah, some got a nerf as well, but it's mainly buffs)

Honestly I have always found soul eater to be good in PvP. The heal is nonexistent since you are never going to hit that much. I tried it out for a couple matches and swapped back to DD. Is just more damage overall and I really don't think a couple hundred more hp every time you enter shroud is what saves you. Reaper was the same spot in PvP before the soul eater change and is the same now. Is not like it got better due to it. The class remains about the same.

With it you had much more chances to win fights in solo roaming in wvw

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@trixantea.1230 said:

@trixantea.1230 said:I understand that necro shouldn't benefit from direct heal while in shroud but nerfing the life steal from soul eater to make it mismatch other lifesteal effects only adds a bad taste to gameplay and shows a flaw in the class design.

I think that all traits/skills should follow the same logic so all lifesteal traits should either heal or not to heal during shroud.

Soul Eater wasn't life stealing. It just healed you for 5% of the damage you dealt. Life stealing is a small amount of extra damage you apply with attacks that have a small amount of healing attached, that does work with Shroud. Soul Eater was (and life stealing still is) an exception to the rule that healing doesn't work when in shroud.

Disagree. If you have played other video games with lifesteal mechanics, you will notice that Liefsteal by definition is to heal Y amount for X damage done. Just because Soul Eater's tooltip doesn't say the exact same word doesn't mean that the mechanics is not the same thing.

Mechanically they are different. There's no debate there. Life stealing has a damage value dictated to by your power and a healing value dictated to by your healing power. Life stealing also goes through many kinds of defenses that ignore damage (like Endure Pain, Signet of Stone etc). Soul Eater just heals you for a percentage of the damage you deal.

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@Lahmia.2193 said:

@trixantea.1230 said:I understand that necro shouldn't benefit from direct heal while in shroud but nerfing the life steal from soul eater to make it mismatch other lifesteal effects only adds a bad taste to gameplay and shows a flaw in the class design.

I think that all traits/skills should follow the same logic so all lifesteal traits should either heal or not to heal during shroud.

Soul Eater wasn't life stealing. It just healed you for 5% of the damage you dealt. Life stealing is a small amount of extra damage you apply with attacks that have a small amount of healing attached, that does work with Shroud. Soul Eater was (and life stealing still is) an exception to the rule that healing doesn't work when in shroud.

Disagree. If you have played other video games with lifesteal mechanics, you will notice that Liefsteal by definition is to heal Y amount for X damage done. Just because Soul Eater's tooltip doesn't say the exact same word doesn't mean that the mechanics is not the same thing.

Mechanically they are different. There's no debate there. Life stealing has a damage value dictated to by your power and a healing value dictated to by your healing power. Life stealing also goes through many kinds of defenses that ignore damage (like Endure Pain, Signet of Stone etc). Soul Eater just heals you for a percentage of the damage you deal.

I see that you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. GW2 wiki clearly states this:

"Life Stealing from necromancer traits are some of the few methods for healing while in a Necromancer's Shroud, the exceptions being Unholy Sanctuary, Soul Eater and Blighter's Boon."

This mechanics isn't only known in GW2 by this name. There are many video games that uses the exact same word and have very the same mechanics. Just because it doesn't use the same damage/healing number calculation doesn't mean it is not the same thing so contradicting the wiki and basing your argument on your incorrect definition of Lifesteal makes it invalid.

Besides, people here are arguing about Soul Eater nerf, analyse its effects and try to suggest solutions. What's the point of what you've said?

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@trixantea.1230 said:

@trixantea.1230 said:I understand that necro shouldn't benefit from direct heal while in shroud but nerfing the life steal from soul eater to make it mismatch other lifesteal effects only adds a bad taste to gameplay and shows a flaw in the class design.

I think that all traits/skills should follow the same logic so all lifesteal traits should either heal or not to heal during shroud.

Soul Eater wasn't life stealing. It just healed you for 5% of the damage you dealt. Life stealing is a small amount of extra damage you apply with attacks that have a small amount of healing attached, that does work with Shroud. Soul Eater was (and life stealing still is) an exception to the rule that healing doesn't work when in shroud.

Disagree. If you have played other video games with lifesteal mechanics, you will notice that Liefsteal by definition is to heal Y amount for X damage done. Just because Soul Eater's tooltip doesn't say the exact same word doesn't mean that the mechanics is not the same thing.

Mechanically they are different. There's no debate there. Life stealing has a damage value dictated to by your power and a healing value dictated to by your healing power. Life stealing also goes through many kinds of defenses that ignore damage (like Endure Pain, Signet of Stone etc). Soul Eater just heals you for a percentage of the damage you deal.

I see that you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.
clearly states this:

"Life Stealing from necromancer traits are some of the few methods for healing while in a Necromancer's Shroud, the exceptions being Unholy Sanctuary, Soul Eater and Blighter's Boon."

This mechanics isn't only known in GW2 by this name. There are many video games that uses the exact same word and have very the same mechanics. Just because it doesn't use the same damage/healing number calculation doesn't mean it is not the same thing so contradicting the wiki and basing your argument on your incorrect definition of
Lifesteal
makes it invalid.

Besides, people here are arguing about Soul Eater nerf, analyse its effects and try to suggest solutions. What's the point of what you've said?

To tell you the difference between what is mechanically life stealing and what is just healing. Soul Eater could go back to its beta form of inflicting life stealing whilst wielding a greatsword but that was quickly dumped by anet early on and apparently unpopular due to peoples' views on Life stealing in general.

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