Reaper Soul Eater Healing — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Reaper Soul Eater Healing

After a few tests, I would say that the 5% healing bonus can be completely removed as it is now completely trash.

I would really understand some changes, but now we are in the pretty same direction as before. Why not give 5% barrier instead of healing while being in life force? You can limit the maximum of the barrier to ~3k and start the timer to lose the barrier when you leave Reaper's Shroud. Just an idea, but that could be a good compromise.

Reaper was nowhere meta and doesn't deserve to get worse. As I said before, I understand that changes have been made here. But I think these changes are too strict.

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Comments

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    It's still okay for a master trait. Reaper is just forced back to run paladin amulet if you plan to be competitive at duells. Just don't even try at marauder...

    Dark Path/Pursuit is actually pretty good. If the autoattack wasn't that dull. I can not play core because of that crappy autoattack. It kills all the fun. the rest of core shroud is okay now and core has the most build diversity of all necro specialisations.

  • @KrHome.1920 said:
    It's still okay for a master trait. Reaper is just forced back to run paladin amulet if you plan to be competitive at duells. Just don't even try at marauder...

    Dark Path/Pursuit is actually pretty good. If the autoattack wasn't that dull. I can not play core because of that crappy autoattack. It kills all the fun. the rest of core shroud is okay now and core has the most build diversity of all necro specialisations.

    You only talk about PvP. But the numbers of players there is pretty low in comparison to PvE, and the impact there is almost negligible, since you get forced to play Scourge anyway at some point.

  • trixantea.1230trixantea.1230 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    I understand that necro shouldn't benefit from direct heal while in shroud but nerfing the life steal from soul eater to make it mismatch other lifesteal effects only adds a bad taste to gameplay and shows a flaw in the class design.

    I think that all traits/skills should follow the same logic so all lifesteal traits should either heal or not to heal during shroud. The nerf to Soul Eater was unneccesary but if Anet devs found that 5% lifesteal during shroud was too much, why didn't they just nerf it to 2%-3% inside and outside shroud or remove the healing altogether (because it's now so insignificant) instead of creating this confusion?

    Regeneration by the way also have a similar issue: Necro have traits/skills that grant regen (Mark of Blood/Mark of Evasion) but the benefit from this self inflicted boon becomes useless during shroud. In many times, necros do not get full benefit from these supposedly "buff" so either remove regen from these traits OR make regen heal the necro work during shroud just as it works on barriers for scourge.

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @trixantea.1230 said:
    I understand that necro shouldn't benefit from direct heal while in shroud but nerfing the life steal from soul eater to make it mismatch other lifesteal effects only adds a bad taste to gameplay and shows a flaw in the class design.

    I think that all traits/skills should follow the same logic so all lifesteal traits should either heal or not to heal during shroud.

    Soul Eater wasn't life stealing. It just healed you for 5% of the damage you dealt. Life stealing is a small amount of extra damage you apply with attacks that have a small amount of healing attached, that does work with Shroud. Soul Eater was (and life stealing still is) an exception to the rule that healing doesn't work when in shroud.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • After further testing, I replaced Soul Eater with Decimate Defenses and changed my GS from Assassin to Berserker and the second sigil from Accuracy to Night. The DPS is generally higher and survivability is almost the same compared to the new Soul Eater. So it looks like Soul Eater is more garbage than I thought...

  • Methuselah.4376Methuselah.4376 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sileeent.5861 said:
    After further testing, I replaced Soul Eater with Decimate Defenses and changed my GS from Assassin to Berserker and the second sigil from Accuracy to Night. The DPS is generally higher and survivability is almost the same compared to the new Soul Eater. So it looks like Soul Eater is more garbage than I thought...

    But if you were getting higher numbers before with Soul Eater trait, there's no reason you shouldn't still be getting those numbers since the damage modifier is still the same o.O The Night sigil is very circumstantial as that is not a constant 10% buff. What I see that you basically did was have the +10% that would have from Soul Eater coming from Night (if you have force, you have +15% damage from sigils alone during night time) and extra crit damage from Decimate Defenses. But then again that damage, while nice, would be inconsistent.
    There are ways to get higher DPS than what is benchmarked. For example you could have Bloodlust on one set of weapons and then Force and Night on the other and you would do a lot more damage at night once you get 25 stacks of bloodlust. But it wouldn't be ideal for situations like raids and certain fractals.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    @Sileeent.5861 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    It's still okay for a master trait. Reaper is just forced back to run paladin amulet if you plan to be competitive at duells. Just don't even try at marauder...

    Dark Path/Pursuit is actually pretty good. If the autoattack wasn't that dull. I can not play core because of that crappy autoattack. It kills all the fun. the rest of core shroud is okay now and core has the most build diversity of all necro specialisations.

    You only talk about PvP. But the numbers of players there is pretty low in comparison to PvE, and the impact there is almost negligible, since you get forced to play Scourge anyway at some point.

    Um ... not sure that's true ...

    To be fair, the healing you get from Soul Reaper NOW is STILL way better than how it worked when it just gave a flat 200 HP and it's method of healing supports a kitten out DPS approach to play, not some stupid Healing power hybrid build. The bottomline is that if you need it, it's good. if you don't, you play decimate. You couldn't ask for a better choice of traits in Reaper master column. One is totally DPS .. .the other is just more sustain if you need it in the SAME DPs build.

    people always QQ about choice ... now you have them.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Sileeent.5861Sileeent.5861 Member ✭✭
    edited July 17, 2019

    @Methuselah.4376 said:

    @Sileeent.5861 said:
    After further testing, I replaced Soul Eater with Decimate Defenses and changed my GS from Assassin to Berserker and the second sigil from Accuracy to Night. The DPS is generally higher and survivability is almost the same compared to the new Soul Eater. So it looks like Soul Eater is more garbage than I thought...

    But if you were getting higher numbers before with Soul Eater trait, there's no reason you shouldn't still be getting those numbers since the damage modifier is still the same o.O The Night sigil is very circumstantial as that is not a constant 10% buff. What I see that you basically did was have the +10% that would have from Soul Eater coming from Night (if you have force, you have +15% damage from sigils alone during night time) and extra crit damage from Decimate Defenses. But then again that damage, while nice, would be inconsistent.
    There are ways to get higher DPS than what is benchmarked. For example you could have Bloodlust on one set of weapons and then Force and Night on the other and you would do a lot more damage at night once you get 25 stacks of bloodlust. But it wouldn't be ideal for situations like raids and certain fractals.

    I think I should explain a lot more details.

    I haven't tested the DPS at night, so I got only 8% damage buff. Another point is that I have tested Spite + Blood Magic build. I think that Spite + Soul Reaping build would be different because of 33% extra critical buff when in Reaper's Shroud. So Soul Eater should still be more useful there.

    Playing fractals and raids is another story. It's also questionable whether the changes are significant there because the sustain you receives from your party. I guess it shouldn't matter If you have a good comp and good mates. So first, I tested scenarios that are far from ideal, where the Soul Eater's heal was important and is now garbage.

  • You forget that there are other DPS classes with higher damage and sustain. So the changes are going in the wrong direction. In most areas you already take Scourge instead of Reaper. Should Anet really take away the last of Reaper's identity without any compensation? I don't want to be forced to play Scourge everywhere.

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sileeent.5861 said:

    @Methuselah.4376 said:

    @Sileeent.5861 said:
    After further testing, I replaced Soul Eater with Decimate Defenses and changed my GS from Assassin to Berserker and the second sigil from Accuracy to Night. The DPS is generally higher and survivability is almost the same compared to the new Soul Eater. So it looks like Soul Eater is more garbage than I thought...

    But if you were getting higher numbers before with Soul Eater trait, there's no reason you shouldn't still be getting those numbers since the damage modifier is still the same o.O The Night sigil is very circumstantial as that is not a constant 10% buff. What I see that you basically did was have the +10% that would have from Soul Eater coming from Night (if you have force, you have +15% damage from sigils alone during night time) and extra crit damage from Decimate Defenses. But then again that damage, while nice, would be inconsistent.
    There are ways to get higher DPS than what is benchmarked. For example you could have Bloodlust on one set of weapons and then Force and Night on the other and you would do a lot more damage at night once you get 25 stacks of bloodlust. But it wouldn't be ideal for situations like raids and certain fractals.

    I think I should explain a lot more details.

    I haven't tested the DPS at night, so I got only 8% damage buff. Another point is that I have tested Spite + Blood Magic build. I think that Spite + Soul Reaping build would be different because of 33% extra critical buff when in Reaper's Shroud. So Soul Eater should still be more useful there.

    Playing fractals and raids is another story. It's also questionable whether the changes are significant there because the sustain you receives from your party. I guess it shouldn't matter If you have a good comp and good mates. So first, I tested scenarios that are far from ideal, where the Soul Eater's heal was important and is now garbage.

    Decimate Defense was always better in open world. This never changed.

    Have you guys just never played reaper 3 months ago?

  • trixantea.1230trixantea.1230 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2019

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @trixantea.1230 said:
    I understand that necro shouldn't benefit from direct heal while in shroud but nerfing the life steal from soul eater to make it mismatch other lifesteal effects only adds a bad taste to gameplay and shows a flaw in the class design.

    I think that all traits/skills should follow the same logic so all lifesteal traits should either heal or not to heal during shroud.

    Soul Eater wasn't life stealing. It just healed you for 5% of the damage you dealt. Life stealing is a small amount of extra damage you apply with attacks that have a small amount of healing attached, that does work with Shroud. Soul Eater was (and life stealing still is) an exception to the rule that healing doesn't work when in shroud.

    Disagree. If you have played other video games with lifesteal mechanics, you will notice that Liefsteal by definition is to heal Y amount for X damage done. Just because Soul Eater's tooltip doesn't say the exact same word doesn't mean that the mechanics is not the same thing.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_stealing

  • Sileeent.5861Sileeent.5861 Member ✭✭
    edited July 17, 2019

    @Warscythes.9307:

    I think you mean Metabattle's minion master build, who lacks DPS, just to give you more sustain that you would not need if you learn that this game still offers a ability that allows you to prevent incoming damage.

    However, who was talking about open world?! Nobody cares what you'll play there... LOL
    You shouldn't think that there is a important meta... LMAO

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sileeent.5861 said:
    After further testing, I replaced Soul Eater with Decimate Defenses and changed my GS from Assassin to Berserker and the second sigil from Accuracy to Night. The DPS is generally higher and survivability is almost the same compared to the new Soul Eater. So it looks like Soul Eater is more garbage than I thought...

    A link to the build? A clearer view of traits, gear stats, 2nd sigil and rune used etc.

    What's the DPS with Soul Eater instead of D.D with Berserker GS + new sigil.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2019

    @Sileeent.5861 said:

    You forget that there are other DPS classes with higher damage and sustain. So the changes are going in the wrong direction. In most areas you already take Scourge instead of Reaper. Should Anet really take away the last of Reaper's identity without any compensation? I don't want to be forced to play Scourge everywhere.

    No I'm not ... that doesn't matter; if you look at the history of changes in this game, it's NEVER mattered. The changes are inline with the theme of the class. Furthermore, Soul Eater healing in shroud was not reaper's 'identity' and if you are taking Scourge over Reaper in most areas, you need to play Reaper better. Finally, no one is going to force you to play Scourge, even meta-loving people.

    Anything else?

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2019

    @Sileeent.5861 said:
    @Warscythes.9307:

    I think you mean Metabattle's minion master build, who lacks DPS, just to give you more sustain that you would not need if you learn that this game still offers a ability that allows you to prevent incoming damage.

    However, who was talking about open world?! Nobody cares what you'll play there... LOL
    You shouldn't think that there is a important meta... LMAO

    The fact you mentioned spite and blood made me think you are trying to play open world. Why would you ever run blood in fractal or raids? If not, then what exactly are you talking about?

    Reaper dps has not changed in raid and fractals. Berserker GS has always been better in any short term fights such as fractals, KC or bosses with low time phases while Assassin is better anywhere else. Soul eater IS better than DD in any organized group format where you can obtain a reliable source of fury but not when you cannot hit the crit cap. This has been common knowledge since soul eater was introduced. So if you are getting better damage with DD, is because you don't high enough crit for soul eater to matter. That's it. So if you are testing in an unoptimized comp, of course your damage would be better with DD than with soul eater. This has been the same before and after the patch.

    Don't just mindlessly copy SC builds and don't read/think about why that is.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eramonster.2718 said:

    @Sileeent.5861 said:
    After further testing, I replaced Soul Eater with Decimate Defenses and changed my GS from Assassin to Berserker and the second sigil from Accuracy to Night. The DPS is generally higher and survivability is almost the same compared to the new Soul Eater. So it looks like Soul Eater is more garbage than I thought...

    A link to the build? A clearer view of traits, gear stats, 2nd sigil and rune used etc.

    What's the DPS with Soul Eater instead of D.D with Berserker GS + new sigil.

    That's easy to answer. Going back down to 29k DPS with decimate defenses.

    They didn't nerf reaper dmg, but fckd reaper in every PvP mode by removing the healing.
    While buffing already strong builds for other classes.
    (Well yeah, some got a nerf as well, but it's mainly buffs)

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 18, 2019

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Eramonster.2718 said:

    @Sileeent.5861 said:
    After further testing, I replaced Soul Eater with Decimate Defenses and changed my GS from Assassin to Berserker and the second sigil from Accuracy to Night. The DPS is generally higher and survivability is almost the same compared to the new Soul Eater. So it looks like Soul Eater is more garbage than I thought...

    A link to the build? A clearer view of traits, gear stats, 2nd sigil and rune used etc.

    What's the DPS with Soul Eater instead of D.D with Berserker GS + new sigil.

    That's easy to answer. Going back down to 29k DPS with decimate defenses.

    They didn't nerf reaper dmg, but fckd reaper in every PvP mode by removing the healing.
    While buffing already strong builds for other classes.
    (Well yeah, some got a nerf as well, but it's mainly buffs)

    Honestly I have never found soul eater to be good in PvP. The heal is nonexistent since you are never going to hit that much. I tried it out for a couple matches and swapped back to DD. Is just more damage overall and I really don't think a couple hundred more hp every time you enter shroud is what saves you. Reaper was the same spot in PvP before the soul eater change and is the same now. Is not like it got better due to it. The class remains about the same.

  • dceptaconroy.7928dceptaconroy.7928 Member ✭✭✭

    ^ Just what I've been saying regarding PVP..but the open world/PVE'ers will still bark like a deaf dog. Stooges have no idea how it saved your bacon. Meh

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Eramonster.2718 said:

    @Sileeent.5861 said:
    After further testing, I replaced Soul Eater with Decimate Defenses and changed my GS from Assassin to Berserker and the second sigil from Accuracy to Night. The DPS is generally higher and survivability is almost the same compared to the new Soul Eater. So it looks like Soul Eater is more garbage than I thought...

    A link to the build? A clearer view of traits, gear stats, 2nd sigil and rune used etc.

    What's the DPS with Soul Eater instead of D.D with Berserker GS + new sigil.

    That's easy to answer. Going back down to 29k DPS with decimate defenses.

    They didn't nerf reaper dmg, but fckd reaper in every PvP mode by removing the healing.
    While buffing already strong builds for other classes.
    (Well yeah, some got a nerf as well, but it's mainly buffs)

    Honestly I have always found soul eater to be good in PvP. The heal is nonexistent since you are never going to hit that much. I tried it out for a couple matches and swapped back to DD. Is just more damage overall and I really don't think a couple hundred more hp every time you enter shroud is what saves you. Reaper was the same spot in PvP before the soul eater change and is the same now. Is not like it got better due to it. The class remains about the same.

    With it you had much more chances to win fights in solo roaming in wvw

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @trixantea.1230 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @trixantea.1230 said:
    I understand that necro shouldn't benefit from direct heal while in shroud but nerfing the life steal from soul eater to make it mismatch other lifesteal effects only adds a bad taste to gameplay and shows a flaw in the class design.

    I think that all traits/skills should follow the same logic so all lifesteal traits should either heal or not to heal during shroud.

    Soul Eater wasn't life stealing. It just healed you for 5% of the damage you dealt. Life stealing is a small amount of extra damage you apply with attacks that have a small amount of healing attached, that does work with Shroud. Soul Eater was (and life stealing still is) an exception to the rule that healing doesn't work when in shroud.

    Disagree. If you have played other video games with lifesteal mechanics, you will notice that Liefsteal by definition is to heal Y amount for X damage done. Just because Soul Eater's tooltip doesn't say the exact same word doesn't mean that the mechanics is not the same thing.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_stealing

    Mechanically they are different. There's no debate there. Life stealing has a damage value dictated to by your power and a healing value dictated to by your healing power. Life stealing also goes through many kinds of defenses that ignore damage (like Endure Pain, Signet of Stone etc). Soul Eater just heals you for a percentage of the damage you deal.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • trixantea.1230trixantea.1230 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2019

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @trixantea.1230 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @trixantea.1230 said:
    I understand that necro shouldn't benefit from direct heal while in shroud but nerfing the life steal from soul eater to make it mismatch other lifesteal effects only adds a bad taste to gameplay and shows a flaw in the class design.

    I think that all traits/skills should follow the same logic so all lifesteal traits should either heal or not to heal during shroud.

    Soul Eater wasn't life stealing. It just healed you for 5% of the damage you dealt. Life stealing is a small amount of extra damage you apply with attacks that have a small amount of healing attached, that does work with Shroud. Soul Eater was (and life stealing still is) an exception to the rule that healing doesn't work when in shroud.

    Disagree. If you have played other video games with lifesteal mechanics, you will notice that Liefsteal by definition is to heal Y amount for X damage done. Just because Soul Eater's tooltip doesn't say the exact same word doesn't mean that the mechanics is not the same thing.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_stealing

    Mechanically they are different. There's no debate there. Life stealing has a damage value dictated to by your power and a healing value dictated to by your healing power. Life stealing also goes through many kinds of defenses that ignore damage (like Endure Pain, Signet of Stone etc). Soul Eater just heals you for a percentage of the damage you deal.

    I see that you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. GW2 wiki clearly states this:

    "Life Stealing from necromancer traits are some of the few methods for healing while in a Necromancer's Shroud, the exceptions being Unholy Sanctuary, Soul Eater and Blighter's Boon."

    This mechanics isn't only known in GW2 by this name. There are many video games that uses the exact same word and have very the same mechanics. Just because it doesn't use the same damage/healing number calculation doesn't mean it is not the same thing so contradicting the wiki and basing your argument on your incorrect definition of Lifesteal makes it invalid.

    Besides, people here are arguing about Soul Eater nerf, analyse its effects and try to suggest solutions. What's the point of what you've said?

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @trixantea.1230 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @trixantea.1230 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @trixantea.1230 said:
    I understand that necro shouldn't benefit from direct heal while in shroud but nerfing the life steal from soul eater to make it mismatch other lifesteal effects only adds a bad taste to gameplay and shows a flaw in the class design.

    I think that all traits/skills should follow the same logic so all lifesteal traits should either heal or not to heal during shroud.

    Soul Eater wasn't life stealing. It just healed you for 5% of the damage you dealt. Life stealing is a small amount of extra damage you apply with attacks that have a small amount of healing attached, that does work with Shroud. Soul Eater was (and life stealing still is) an exception to the rule that healing doesn't work when in shroud.

    Disagree. If you have played other video games with lifesteal mechanics, you will notice that Liefsteal by definition is to heal Y amount for X damage done. Just because Soul Eater's tooltip doesn't say the exact same word doesn't mean that the mechanics is not the same thing.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_stealing

    Mechanically they are different. There's no debate there. Life stealing has a damage value dictated to by your power and a healing value dictated to by your healing power. Life stealing also goes through many kinds of defenses that ignore damage (like Endure Pain, Signet of Stone etc). Soul Eater just heals you for a percentage of the damage you deal.

    I see that you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. GW2 wiki clearly states this:

    "Life Stealing from necromancer traits are some of the few methods for healing while in a Necromancer's Shroud, the exceptions being Unholy Sanctuary, Soul Eater and Blighter's Boon."

    This mechanics isn't only known in GW2 by this name. There are many video games that uses the exact same word and have very the same mechanics. Just because it doesn't use the same damage/healing number calculation doesn't mean it is not the same thing so contradicting the wiki and basing your argument on your incorrect definition of Lifesteal makes it invalid.

    Besides, people here are arguing about Soul Eater nerf, analyse its effects and try to suggest solutions. What's the point of what you've said?

    To tell you the difference between what is mechanically life stealing and what is just healing. Soul Eater could go back to its beta form of inflicting life stealing whilst wielding a greatsword but that was quickly dumped by anet early on and apparently unpopular due to peoples' views on Life stealing in general.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Sileeent.5861 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    It's still okay for a master trait. Reaper is just forced back to run paladin amulet if you plan to be competitive at duells. Just don't even try at marauder...

    Dark Path/Pursuit is actually pretty good. If the autoattack wasn't that dull. I can not play core because of that crappy autoattack. It kills all the fun. the rest of core shroud is okay now and core has the most build diversity of all necro specialisations.

    You only talk about PvP. But the numbers of players there is pretty low in comparison to PvE, and the impact there is almost negligible, since you get forced to play Scourge anyway at some point.

    Um ... not sure that's true ...

    To be fair, the healing you get from Soul Reaper NOW is STILL way better than how it worked when it just gave a flat 200 HP and it's method of healing supports a kitten out DPS approach to play, not some stupid Healing power hybrid build. The bottomline is that if you need it, it's good. if you don't, you play decimate. You couldn't ask for a better choice of traits in Reaper master column. One is totally DPS .. .the other is just more sustain if you need it in the SAME DPs build.

    Not sure your statement is true either ...

    Remember that the previous version got you 200 hp for just holding the weapon and 0.5% life force per second.
    Some necromancer attacks depending on the weapon take longer than a second and or hitting a single target will not net you 200 hp before your damage ramps
    Because its necro your damage does not ramp as instantly or as fast as other professions not to mention the life force gain is not there either which could be regarded as more health or more shroud up time depending on the situation. And the 20% cooldown reduction is gone too. I spent alot of time using the old soul eater before it got changed specifically in pvp if you are curious and ill tell you right now 220hp per second is good bit of sustain when you are kiting a foe, not specifically able to make attacks or avoiding attacks vs something that requires you to attack in melee range.

    to call it "Better" possible under very niche situations but it still requires you to attack with some of the slowest weapons in the game in melee range.

    Dagger is the slowest dagger in the game on necro and it has no fearful offensive pressure like spellbreakers leaps and quick shank stun, Greatsword is the slowest greatsword in the game and does not specifically hit any harder than any other professions greatswords.

    to call it "Way better" is a bit silly (especially from a pvp perspective) in pvp this trait maybe at anytime gave you hp equivalent to running blood magic remember that people dont run glass cannon builds in pvp all the time. Not only is your personal damage lower as a result other characters are also much tougher and take less damage resulting in lesser healing from this triat you cant compare it with the heal numbers you might be use to seeing in say pve where every auto swing is 12k damage

    In pve meh its probably still better (provide you hit a cluster of mobs with grave digger or something)

    You shouldn't use terms like QQ like its cute because its not. Dont end a serious conversation with a silly passive aggressive taunt.

  • Morde.3158Morde.3158 Member ✭✭
    edited July 24, 2019

    The previous soul eater was better not to mention they butchered the greatsword pull they increased the distance and fixed the instagib combo when the claws would hit the same target more then once. At the same time the greatsword pull has become less reliable before it would quickly reach the target and pull them now pull is clunky and it takes longer for the claws to return meaning its easier to dodge and easier to fail because of design. Life steal and heal on hit is cool but at the same time make the class less clunky so that healing can be achieved in pvp. Not sure why Reaper greatsword is melee focused anyway reapers shroud is already enough playstyle change. Everything but the auto attack should have been atleast a midrange ability in the first place.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2019

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Sileeent.5861 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    It's still okay for a master trait. Reaper is just forced back to run paladin amulet if you plan to be competitive at duells. Just don't even try at marauder...

    Dark Path/Pursuit is actually pretty good. If the autoattack wasn't that dull. I can not play core because of that crappy autoattack. It kills all the fun. the rest of core shroud is okay now and core has the most build diversity of all necro specialisations.

    You only talk about PvP. But the numbers of players there is pretty low in comparison to PvE, and the impact there is almost negligible, since you get forced to play Scourge anyway at some point.

    Um ... not sure that's true ...

    To be fair, the healing you get from Soul Reaper NOW is STILL way better than how it worked when it just gave a flat 200 HP and it's method of healing supports a kitten out DPS approach to play, not some stupid Healing power hybrid build. The bottomline is that if you need it, it's good. if you don't, you play decimate. You couldn't ask for a better choice of traits in Reaper master column. One is totally DPS .. .the other is just more sustain if you need it in the SAME DPs build.

    Not sure your statement is true either ...

    It's more true than anything the OP has said .. but I don't see you coming down on him. How about we be a little more objective. If you ACTUALLY want change, you're going to be JUST as critical to his statements.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Sileeent.5861 said:

    You forget that there are other DPS classes with higher damage and sustain. So the changes are going in the wrong direction. In most areas you already take Scourge instead of Reaper. Should Anet really take away the last of Reaper's identity without any compensation? I don't want to be forced to play Scourge everywhere.

    No I'm not ... that doesn't matter; if you look at the history of changes in this game, it's NEVER mattered. The changes are inline with the theme of the class. Furthermore, Soul Eater healing in shroud was not reaper's 'identity' and if you are taking Scourge over Reaper in most areas, you need to play Reaper better. Finally, no one is going to force you to play Scourge, even meta-loving people.

    Anything else?

    Just popped in to ask - wouldn’t the only way to heal in shroud aside from some useless DM grandmaster be the Reaper’s Unique thing? Slow and Unkillable, but limited to melee range for best damage/survivability.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Sileeent.5861 said:

    You forget that there are other DPS classes with higher damage and sustain. So the changes are going in the wrong direction. In most areas you already take Scourge instead of Reaper. Should Anet really take away the last of Reaper's identity without any compensation? I don't want to be forced to play Scourge everywhere.

    No I'm not ... that doesn't matter; if you look at the history of changes in this game, it's NEVER mattered. The changes are inline with the theme of the class. Furthermore, Soul Eater healing in shroud was not reaper's 'identity' and if you are taking Scourge over Reaper in most areas, you need to play Reaper better. Finally, no one is going to force you to play Scourge, even meta-loving people.

    Anything else?

    Just popped in to ask - wouldn’t the only way to heal in shroud aside from some useless DM grandmaster be the Reaper’s Unique thing? Slow and Unkillable, but limited to melee range for best damage/survivability.

    Sure ... but MANY things could be Reaper's 'unique' thing and healing in shroud isn't necessarily the only way to accomplish slow and unkillable either.

    I mean, there isn't much value in talking about some idea that could be that clearly Anet thinks shouldn't be.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Sileeent.5861 said:

    You forget that there are other DPS classes with higher damage and sustain. So the changes are going in the wrong direction. In most areas you already take Scourge instead of Reaper. Should Anet really take away the last of Reaper's identity without any compensation? I don't want to be forced to play Scourge everywhere.

    No I'm not ... that doesn't matter; if you look at the history of changes in this game, it's NEVER mattered. The changes are inline with the theme of the class. Furthermore, Soul Eater healing in shroud was not reaper's 'identity' and if you are taking Scourge over Reaper in most areas, you need to play Reaper better. Finally, no one is going to force you to play Scourge, even meta-loving people.

    Anything else?

    Just popped in to ask - wouldn’t the only way to heal in shroud aside from some useless DM grandmaster be the Reaper’s Unique thing? Slow and Unkillable, but limited to melee range for best damage/survivability.

    Sure ... but MANY things could be Reaper's 'unique' thing and healing in shroud isn't necessarily the only way to accomplish slow and unkillable either.

    I mean, there isn't much value in talking about some idea that could be that clearly Anet thinks shouldn't be.

    True, but that’s two things reaper had unique about them they removed, Chill damage (still my favourite trait) and heal in shroud, i believe one reaper grandmaster heals when you Apply a boon if you are in shroud, and seeing as there are only two “boons” in shroud which are short duration stability and might on auto attack if you take spite. This sort of shows that there is an “idea” to heal in shroud, but the severe lack of boon application outside of spite while in shroud makes it very bad to take unless you just want to build shroud quickly, so reaper has only one “good” grandmaster in my opinion, as it is no longer Condi focused so bleed on chill and a Slow chill at that, a minor heal in specific circumstances, or a flat shroud DPS boost. Personally i feel until they revamp/rework the two grandmasters to fit the reaper’s physical/hinderance theme instead of a no longer relevant condition theme (although you can be a bleed and burn reaper / fire and ice, it is not as condition “heavy” as scourge, and even then scourge only gets one more common condition of torment)

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 18, 2019

    Hey, don't get me wrong ... I'm not entirely pleased that some of the unique feel of Reaper has been lost to appease Meta pushers. That's a different thread that I think lots of haters would chime in on because it advocates a DPS nerf to get back to the original marketing theme ideas we were fed for Reaper when HoT was released. I think Reaper is a great example of what we LOSE when Anet appeals to fringe elements that this game wasn't designed around. Let's not go there.

    If there was an idea to heal in shroud, I believe that it wasn't developed enough to see it as a 'unique feel' thing to the reaper. Even if that's the case, I would never wanted to have seen it implemented in the way Soul Reaper did it; it was simply inappropriate. IF anything, I think the lifesteal would have made way more sense.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Sileeent.5861 said:

    You forget that there are other DPS classes with higher damage and sustain. So the changes are going in the wrong direction. In most areas you already take Scourge instead of Reaper. Should Anet really take away the last of Reaper's identity without any compensation? I don't want to be forced to play Scourge everywhere.

    No I'm not ... that doesn't matter; if you look at the history of changes in this game, it's NEVER mattered. The changes are inline with the theme of the class. Furthermore, Soul Eater healing in shroud was not reaper's 'identity' and if you are taking Scourge over Reaper in most areas, you need to play Reaper better. Finally, no one is going to force you to play Scourge, even meta-loving people.

    Anything else?

    Just popped in to ask - wouldn’t the only way to heal in shroud aside from some useless DM grandmaster be the Reaper’s Unique thing? Slow and Unkillable, but limited to melee range for best damage/survivability.

    Sure ... but MANY things could be Reaper's 'unique' thing and healing in shroud isn't necessarily the only way to accomplish slow and unkillable either.

    I mean, there isn't much value in talking about some idea that could be that clearly Anet thinks shouldn't be.

    Well. Right now, reapers don't have anything unique to them.
    -Dmg? Every class does huge dmg.
    -Survivability? Even scourge is more durable than reaper
    -Corrupts? Any other class will corrupt more than reaper. If you look at wvw, in shorter fights always warriors are top boon removers, else scourge
    -Mobility? Necro in general has worst mobility in game...

    Yes, some other classes lack Identity as well. But look at firebrand, scrapper,... scourge. Very unique kits.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Sileeent.5861 said:

    You forget that there are other DPS classes with higher damage and sustain. So the changes are going in the wrong direction. In most areas you already take Scourge instead of Reaper. Should Anet really take away the last of Reaper's identity without any compensation? I don't want to be forced to play Scourge everywhere.

    No I'm not ... that doesn't matter; if you look at the history of changes in this game, it's NEVER mattered. The changes are inline with the theme of the class. Furthermore, Soul Eater healing in shroud was not reaper's 'identity' and if you are taking Scourge over Reaper in most areas, you need to play Reaper better. Finally, no one is going to force you to play Scourge, even meta-loving people.

    Anything else?

    Just popped in to ask - wouldn’t the only way to heal in shroud aside from some useless DM grandmaster be the Reaper’s Unique thing? Slow and Unkillable, but limited to melee range for best damage/survivability.

    Sure ... but MANY things could be Reaper's 'unique' thing and healing in shroud isn't necessarily the only way to accomplish slow and unkillable either.

    I mean, there isn't much value in talking about some idea that could be that clearly Anet thinks shouldn't be.

    Well. Right now, reapers don't have anything unique to them.
    -Dmg? Every class does huge dmg.
    -Survivability? Even scourge is more durable than reaper
    -Corrupts? Any other class will corrupt more than reaper. If you look at wvw, in shorter fights always warriors are top boon removers, else scourge
    -Mobility? Necro in general has worst mobility in game...

    Yes, some other classes lack Identity as well. But look at firebrand, scrapper,... scourge. Very unique kits.

    Maybe ... that's still not a reason to allow them to have OPed healing on a Master trait while in shroud.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Sileeent.5861 said:

    You forget that there are other DPS classes with higher damage and sustain. So the changes are going in the wrong direction. In most areas you already take Scourge instead of Reaper. Should Anet really take away the last of Reaper's identity without any compensation? I don't want to be forced to play Scourge everywhere.

    No I'm not ... that doesn't matter; if you look at the history of changes in this game, it's NEVER mattered. The changes are inline with the theme of the class. Furthermore, Soul Eater healing in shroud was not reaper's 'identity' and if you are taking Scourge over Reaper in most areas, you need to play Reaper better. Finally, no one is going to force you to play Scourge, even meta-loving people.

    Anything else?

    Just popped in to ask - wouldn’t the only way to heal in shroud aside from some useless DM grandmaster be the Reaper’s Unique thing? Slow and Unkillable, but limited to melee range for best damage/survivability.

    Sure ... but MANY things could be Reaper's 'unique' thing and healing in shroud isn't necessarily the only way to accomplish slow and unkillable either.

    I mean, there isn't much value in talking about some idea that could be that clearly Anet thinks shouldn't be.

    Well. Right now, reapers don't have anything unique to them.
    -Dmg? Every class does huge dmg.
    -Survivability? Even scourge is more durable than reaper
    -Corrupts? Any other class will corrupt more than reaper. If you look at wvw, in shorter fights always warriors are top boon removers, else scourge
    -Mobility? Necro in general has worst mobility in game...

    Yes, some other classes lack Identity as well. But look at firebrand, scrapper,... scourge. Very unique kits.

    Maybe ... that's still not a reason to allow them to have OPed healing on a Master trait while in shroud.

    You had to build glassy to get high healing out of it though. That seems like an obvious weakness to me, which indicates it couldn't be overpowered.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Sileeent.5861 said:

    You forget that there are other DPS classes with higher damage and sustain. So the changes are going in the wrong direction. In most areas you already take Scourge instead of Reaper. Should Anet really take away the last of Reaper's identity without any compensation? I don't want to be forced to play Scourge everywhere.

    No I'm not ... that doesn't matter; if you look at the history of changes in this game, it's NEVER mattered. The changes are inline with the theme of the class. Furthermore, Soul Eater healing in shroud was not reaper's 'identity' and if you are taking Scourge over Reaper in most areas, you need to play Reaper better. Finally, no one is going to force you to play Scourge, even meta-loving people.

    Anything else?

    Just popped in to ask - wouldn’t the only way to heal in shroud aside from some useless DM grandmaster be the Reaper’s Unique thing? Slow and Unkillable, but limited to melee range for best damage/survivability.

    Sure ... but MANY things could be Reaper's 'unique' thing and healing in shroud isn't necessarily the only way to accomplish slow and unkillable either.

    I mean, there isn't much value in talking about some idea that could be that clearly Anet thinks shouldn't be.

    Well. Right now, reapers don't have anything unique to them.
    -Dmg? Every class does huge dmg.
    -Survivability? Even scourge is more durable than reaper
    -Corrupts? Any other class will corrupt more than reaper. If you look at wvw, in shorter fights always warriors are top boon removers, else scourge
    -Mobility? Necro in general has worst mobility in game...

    Yes, some other classes lack Identity as well. But look at firebrand, scrapper,... scourge. Very unique kits.

    Maybe ... that's still not a reason to allow them to have OPed healing on a Master trait while in shroud.

    You had to build glassy to get high healing out of it though. That seems like an obvious weakness to me, which indicates it couldn't be overpowered.

    The problem is that this always goes back to the theme of the class. The strength or weakness of a thing has nothing to do with whether a class should have it or not.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Trollocks.5084Trollocks.5084 Member ✭✭✭

    Just stop, Obtena. You're not as much of an expert on all things as you think you are.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2019

    @Trollocks.5084 said:
    Just stop, Obtena. You're not as much of an expert on all things as you think you are.

    You don't need to be expert to see how Anet operates. But OK, you think I'm wrong. Here is your chance to tell us how all this works ... I've never claimed to be the expert but if you want to put down the ideas I have because I'm not an expert, you better step up and explain what yours are because apparently you are.

    i'm open to criticism of my ideas ... but you better bring your game if you are going to give it.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Trollocks.5084 said:
    Just stop, Obtena. You're not as much of an expert on all things as you think you are.

    You don't need to be expert to see how Anet operates. But OK, you think I'm wrong. Here is your chance to tell us how all this works ... I've never claimed to be the expert but if you want to put down the ideas I have because I'm not an expert, you better step up and explain what yours are because apparently you are.

    i'm open to criticism of my ideas ... but you better bring your game if you are going to give it.

    I think his issue was you mentioning it “always goes back to the theme of the profession” but that’s kind of obviously not the caae with the new thief preparations, how is it thiefy to make a dome of magic that lets people see you but not enter? What about an area that lets you portal other people like a mesmer?

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Trollocks.5084 said:
    Just stop, Obtena. You're not as much of an expert on all things as you think you are.

    You don't need to be expert to see how Anet operates. But OK, you think I'm wrong. Here is your chance to tell us how all this works ... I've never claimed to be the expert but if you want to put down the ideas I have because I'm not an expert, you better step up and explain what yours are because apparently you are.

    i'm open to criticism of my ideas ... but you better bring your game if you are going to give it.

    I think his issue was you mentioning it “always goes back to the theme of the profession” but that’s kind of obviously not the caae with the new thief preparations, how is it thiefy to make a dome of magic that lets people see you but not enter? What about an area that lets you portal other people like a mesmer?

    Hey, there are exceptions but I don't think it's unreasonable at this point to think that most changes are due to Anet's desire to preserve theme ... and Shroud healing removed from Soul Eater appears to be one of them.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Trollocks.5084 said:
    Just stop, Obtena. You're not as much of an expert on all things as you think you are.

    You don't need to be expert to see how Anet operates. But OK, you think I'm wrong. Here is your chance to tell us how all this works ... I've never claimed to be the expert but if you want to put down the ideas I have because I'm not an expert, you better step up and explain what yours are because apparently you are.

    i'm open to criticism of my ideas ... but you better bring your game if you are going to give it.

    I think his issue was you mentioning it “always goes back to the theme of the profession” but that’s kind of obviously not the caae with the new thief preparations, how is it thiefy to make a dome of magic that lets people see you but not enter? What about an area that lets you portal other people like a mesmer?

    Hey, there are exceptions but I don't think it's unreasonable at this point to think that most changes are due to Anet's desire to preserve theme ... and Shroud healing removed from Soul Eater appears to be one of them.

    The reason people are bothered is double standards remember when I was asking about zerker and people were angry about its sustain nerfed? reaper is melee and slow with no invulns very little to no mobility and what sustain it had got nerfed.

    Mobility and sustain are important in pvp, I bet in pve reaper will be fine, but for pvp this really hurts.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Trollocks.5084 said:
    Just stop, Obtena. You're not as much of an expert on all things as you think you are.

    You don't need to be expert to see how Anet operates. But OK, you think I'm wrong. Here is your chance to tell us how all this works ... I've never claimed to be the expert but if you want to put down the ideas I have because I'm not an expert, you better step up and explain what yours are because apparently you are.

    i'm open to criticism of my ideas ... but you better bring your game if you are going to give it.

    I think his issue was you mentioning it “always goes back to the theme of the profession” but that’s kind of obviously not the caae with the new thief preparations, how is it thiefy to make a dome of magic that lets people see you but not enter? What about an area that lets you portal other people like a mesmer?

    Hey, there are exceptions but I don't think it's unreasonable at this point to think that most changes are due to Anet's desire to preserve theme ... and Shroud healing removed from Soul Eater appears to be one of them.

    “Preserve theme” cough then why do thieves have portal and sanctuary?

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2019

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Trollocks.5084 said:
    Just stop, Obtena. You're not as much of an expert on all things as you think you are.

    You don't need to be expert to see how Anet operates. But OK, you think I'm wrong. Here is your chance to tell us how all this works ... I've never claimed to be the expert but if you want to put down the ideas I have because I'm not an expert, you better step up and explain what yours are because apparently you are.

    i'm open to criticism of my ideas ... but you better bring your game if you are going to give it.

    I think his issue was you mentioning it “always goes back to the theme of the profession” but that’s kind of obviously not the caae with the new thief preparations, how is it thiefy to make a dome of magic that lets people see you but not enter? What about an area that lets you portal other people like a mesmer?

    Hey, there are exceptions but I don't think it's unreasonable at this point to think that most changes are due to Anet's desire to preserve theme ... and Shroud healing removed from Soul Eater appears to be one of them.

    “Preserve theme” cough then why do thieves have portal and sanctuary?

    Is there a comprehension problem here? Here, let me just copy and paste in my previous post:

    Hey, there are exceptions but I don't think it's unreasonable at this point to think that most changes are due to Anet's desire to preserve theme ... and Shroud healing removed from Soul Eater appears to be one of them.

    I mean ... how does that not satisfy your question?

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2019

    No, your comment shows there are exceptions, which is clear from my post ... or that Anet controls what the theme is, not players.

    I personally don't see a reason thief can't have those things. Portal actually makes LOTS of sense to me based on my impression of the theme of a thief, but that's really a moot point anyways.

    You can deny that theme is really important if you like but as long as you do so, you can't really be surprised you don't understand most of the changes they make.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • dceptaconroy.7928dceptaconroy.7928 Member ✭✭✭

    Back to DD and more kiting. Re established build to be the more selfish team member than ever. Expectations to rise in rank has been nullified. Still playing and enjoying reaper, dieing less as I'm running more..huzzah! Can't beat me Anet. We're more durable than your build could ever be.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    No, your comment shows there are exceptions, which is clear from my post ... or that Anet controls what the theme is, not players.

    I personally don't see a reason thief can't have those things. Portal actually makes LOTS of sense to me based on my impression of the theme of a thief, but that's really a moot point anyways.

    You can deny that theme is really important if you like but as long as you do so, you can't really be surprised you don't understand most of the changes they make.

    At this point you might as well just say Anet does what they like and we should shut up and be happy about it.

    No one said you can't complain, just don't be confused about the game changes if you want to deny that theme is an important factor when they make them.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    No, your comment shows there are exceptions, which is clear from my post ... or that Anet controls what the theme is, not players.

    I personally don't see a reason thief can't have those things. Portal actually makes LOTS of sense to me based on my impression of the theme of a thief, but that's really a moot point anyways.

    You can deny that theme is really important if you like but as long as you do so, you can't really be surprised you don't understand most of the changes they make.

    At this point you might as well just say Anet does what they like and we should shut up and be happy about it.

    No one said you can't complain, just don't be confused about the game changes if you want to deny that theme is an important factor when they make them.

    "Theme is an important factor until it isn't".

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • dceptaconroy.7928dceptaconroy.7928 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 21, 2019

    The theme is truly undefined and able to change. It is an important factor in their decisions but they are also able to make exceptions. Our countless threads are just fodder. It's a great communal tool, but as a way to institute change its nothin much.Take their statements as pure hyperbole.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 21, 2019

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    No, your comment shows there are exceptions, which is clear from my post ... or that Anet controls what the theme is, not players.

    I personally don't see a reason thief can't have those things. Portal actually makes LOTS of sense to me based on my impression of the theme of a thief, but that's really a moot point anyways.

    You can deny that theme is really important if you like but as long as you do so, you can't really be surprised you don't understand most of the changes they make.

    At this point you might as well just say Anet does what they like and we should shut up and be happy about it.

    No one said you can't complain, just don't be confused about the game changes if you want to deny that theme is an important factor when they make them.

    "Theme is an important factor until it isn't".

    I'm sitting here and I can see why they made this change. I think theme is always an important factor for them but even if this isn't a theme based changed, it was still a completely unrealistic amount of healing in shroud anyways. There was no reasonable justification to have a thing like this happening ever.

    I mean, you can go ahead and sit on the hill of people that complain about changes every time you get them because you aren't looking at it from a similar perspective. At least it makes for interesting discussion.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

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