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Meaning of having different options at an equal number of options. What about Ventari?


Shao.7236

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Already with the new Mallyx changes it makes a huge different and leaves the legend a lot less vulnerable to finally get it's own CC which was a missing aspect of the skill set. This is quite an healthy change for the profession as a whole to finally have the leap and access to Dark Aura's, that begs the question though, if Ventari was to finally get it's own missing Stunbreak (Purifying Essences) which has a cooldown, would it finally make it less vulnerable as well? Yes it can heal while CC'd, but considering the self healing is in no way good enough to sustain any form of continuous control or small amount of focus (And being tossed around so much, you have to keep the tablet in Range.) which makes it irrelevant in many scenarios even with Jalis Inspiring Reinforcement and Unwavering Avoidance helping the case doesn't prevent boon removal that is more than common. One could mention Legendary Dragon Stance, but it's just one option among the rest and not only does at higher plays people don't fall for it but being all telegraphed also, it's not hard to read what and when to do something at any type of Ventari. Core could see a lot of plays, especially Renegade could be fitting that spot also just for being more of a suitable weapon set, being stripped of equal options just plain sucks.

Whether it was implied to not camp Ventari with most of the reasons being that traits and energy is more efficiently used legend swapping constantly or that evades should be made worth their time to which it's impossible because CC's aren't just the one thing to avoid. Firebrand does have more opportunities to not be CC lock with Aegis, Blinds and it's Elite Without forgetting to mention the insane amount of support it can dish out more quickly than Ventari, so there's no way it could be that OP nor be too efficient considering that to do so you have to play around both selected legends due to traits.

It could cost the removal of Blinding Truths, but it would be a lot more reliable to have and fill this missing niche in the legend skills. I can see why there isn't one, but in practice it still doesn't quite fall where it should be and that's why to be viable Ventari should not be gimped of a stunbreak even if it has special quirks, afterall every legend does.

As a final notice, "Tethering" the tablet when it is first spawned would make the handling a lot more team friendly. Considering how often the healing skill can be used, this could be a good trade off for those who uses Rune Bonus with low cooldown (Also making Blinding Truths not as essential.), moving it as a result would stop it from being Tethered and required to be invoked again.

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@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:The UA change isn’t particularly good though. Mallyx didn’t need CC and it surely didn’t need the worst pull in the game with a 35 energy cost and a 5 second cooldown. It cost Mallyx a spammable movement/damage skill for a terrible pull that has no damage pressure and worse movement

Having something to retaliate with that can disable players and benefit from AoE typically being Dark is much better than something that has on a regular basis no impact because it is often blocked or moved around which only the most ignorant players would even try to stand into them.

Not just in practice either, the new elite modification allows for better condition output than the old long and slow damaging AoE of both skills.

The old one might have granted more mobility if the energy was available but it was in no way good at applying conditions to players, at best 4 torment stacks while here it's possible to setup bursts more safely and efficiently with less risks.

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@Shao.7236 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:The UA change isn’t particularly good though. Mallyx didn’t need CC and it surely didn’t need the worst pull in the game with a 35 energy cost and a 5 second cooldown. It cost Mallyx a spammable movement/damage skill for a terrible pull that has no damage pressure and worse movement

Having something to retaliate with that can disable players and benefit from AoE typically being Dark is much better than something that has on a regular basis no impact because it is often blocked or moved around which only the most ignorant players would even try to stand into them.

Not just in practice either, the new elite modification allows for better condition output than the old long and slow damaging AoE of both skills.

The old one might have granted more mobility if the energy was available but it was in no way good at applying conditions to players, at best 4 torment stacks while here it's possible to setup bursts more safely and efficiently with less risks.

What burst tho? Condi rev doesnt have any kind of burst or am i missing something?

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@Burtnik.5218 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:The UA change isn’t particularly good though. Mallyx didn’t need CC and it surely didn’t need the worst pull in the game with a 35 energy cost and a 5 second cooldown. It cost Mallyx a spammable movement/damage skill for a terrible pull that has no damage pressure and worse movement

Having something to retaliate with that can disable players and benefit from AoE typically being Dark is much better than something that has on a regular basis no impact because it is often blocked or moved around which only the most ignorant players would even try to stand into them.

Not just in practice either, the new elite modification allows for better condition output than the old long and slow damaging AoE of both skills.

The old one might have granted more mobility if the energy was available but it was in no way good at applying conditions to players, at best 4 torment stacks while here it's possible to setup bursts more safely and efficiently with less risks.

What burst tho? Condi rev doesnt have any kind of burst or am i missing something?

Starting with Embrace the Darkness at a good time and tease players with attacks to evade before CC then add whatever follow up such as Banish Enchantment/Precision Strike/Searing Fissure then swap legends with Song of the Mists to follow up with Elemental Blast and such.

That's just one out of like 10 if not 20 different kind of follow ups that inflict at least 10k damage overtime if landed.

Also peoples pressure can be yours as well.

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@Shao.7236 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:The UA change isn’t particularly good though. Mallyx didn’t need CC and it surely didn’t need the worst pull in the game with a 35 energy cost and a 5 second cooldown. It cost Mallyx a spammable movement/damage skill for a terrible pull that has no damage pressure and worse movement

Having something to retaliate with that can disable players and benefit from AoE typically being Dark is much better than something that has on a regular basis no impact because it is often blocked or moved around which only the most ignorant players would even try to stand into them.

Not just in practice either, the new elite modification allows for better condition output than the old long and slow damaging AoE of both skills.

The old one might have granted more mobility if the energy was available but it was in no way good at applying conditions to players, at best 4 torment stacks while here it's possible to setup bursts more safely and efficiently with less risks.

What burst tho? Condi rev doesnt have any kind of burst or am i missing something?

Starting with Embrace the Darkness at a good time and tease players with attacks to evade before CC then add whatever follow up such as Banish Enchantment/Precision Strike/Searing Fissure then swap legends with Song of the Mists to follow up with Elemental Blast and such.

That's just one out of like 10 if not 20 different kind of follow ups that inflict at least 10k damage overtime if landed.

Also peoples pressure can be yours as well.

I am landing that stuff without setup. Banish is wasted cuz you actually want ppl to proc the 2second long confusion. Theres no real burst in condi rev. We dont have anything like shades

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Aaaand still, I think that people cry too much over UA. Mallyx needed CC, here we have it. Just because we can't spam this skill 10 times doesn't mean Mallyx is trash. Some people say on Day 1 after patch that the Condi Rev meets Reaper damage-wise. Like really? Using random or old rotation?As for CD and energy cost - make it cost 30 energy + 5s CD.

Ventari could use a stunbreak but this would allow excessive healing in PvP which we know Ventari is capable of. While I would like to have some CC breaker I don't see Devs adding it. I think they like it the way it is - I would focus on reworking (again) orbs mechanic because they are a complete visual clutter.

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@Shao.7236 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:The UA change isn’t particularly good though. Mallyx didn’t need CC and it surely didn’t need the worst pull in the game with a 35 energy cost and a 5 second cooldown. It cost Mallyx a spammable movement/damage skill for a terrible pull that has no damage pressure and worse movement

Having something to retaliate with that can disable players and benefit from AoE typically being Dark is much better than something that has on a regular basis no impact because it is often blocked or moved around which only the most ignorant players would even try to stand into them.

Not just in practice either, the new elite modification allows for better condition output than the old long and slow damaging AoE of both skills.

The old one might have granted more mobility if the energy was available but it was in no way good at applying conditions to players, at best 4 torment stacks while here it's possible to setup bursts more safely and efficiently with less risks.

I wasn’t talking about the new elite; I actually mostly like the EtD changes.

The level of CC provided is just not worth the cost. It has a pretty huge chance to miss due to small radius and long cast animation and the idea is to pull multiple enemies together and then punish, but 240 radius is just awful for this and pulling 1 enemy slightly closer to you is meh at best. And the loss of an effective mobility and kiting tool is just not worth it. At 50 energy you now have to wait an additional 3 seconds than before to use it a 2nd time which is enough time to get killed due to lack of mobility. For the cost it should be stronger.

Old UA was also an effective cleave on downed bodies/rezzers; now condi Rev is lacking that unless it goes full melee and channels EtD which in a teamfight tends to lead to death. Before you could drop the fields and get out, but now you have to stay in 240 radius to do enough damage to have an impact.

You say it’s easier to setup bursts and that’s mildly true, but the 1second pull is nothing in the grand scheme of things and EtD expects the enemy to get hit by several pulses (read multiple seconds) plus other skills if you actually want to kill anything. And literally no good player is going to sit there and let you spam on them

@DonArkanio.6419 said:Aaaand still, I think that people cry too much over UA. Mallyx needed CC, here we have it. Just because we can't spam this skill 10 times doesn't mean Mallyx is trash. Some people say on Day 1 after patch that the Condi Rev meets Reaper damage-wise. Like really? Using random or old rotation?As for CD and energy cost - make it cost 30 energy + 5s CD.

People aren’t crying for no reason it’s an incredibly weak pull with a massive energy cost and cooldown for no reason. And I don’t understand why y’all are like “But Mallyx needed CC!” That was never Mallyx’s issue and I’ve never seen it brought up on the forums before. If anything mallyx’s Issues were that it didn’t have enough damage pressure after abyssal chill nerf, has never truly had enough sustain since season 1, didn’t have enough mobility to compete with Shiro, and couldn’t compete with Scourge since it effectively took Mallyx’s job

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