Scrappers in WvW - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Scrappers in WvW

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  • Mil.3562Mil.3562 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 19, 2019

    Lately it is normal that players come into a certain profession topic and claim that they have played that class for many years. They are happy to play a profession that is weak and ineffective in every game mode and in every build. They are very happy with huge nerfs and some even called for more nerfs.

    This tactic is getting pretty old now :D If you are going to beat a dead horse, can you at least be more creative instead of just copy and paste an outdated ploy?

  • aetemes.2603aetemes.2603 Member ✭✭

    OP - Game is dying - let it go.

  • From what I read in the patch notes compared to playing it is 2 different things. 1 Gyro activates, not 6 Gyros at 600 range with static discharge with 180 radius, I have yet to see it res or stomp. I see barrier activates in PVE against static bosses, not thieves and mesmers that go in stealth, ground targeting, nice. Changes don't happen in WvW as supposed to. Scrapper now gets killed by every other class now = balance. "Function Gyro more of a core mechanic, tank and barrier as long as you keep dishing out damage". We have lost barrier, it does not activate properly. "15% of all damage you do gives you barrier", how does this work with interrupts etc, you cant get barrier when you trying to fight an enemy like thief, Mesmer, Ranger from 1500 etc, youre function 1 on hammer is 130, you have to be on top of a target to kill it with Scrapper, and the barrier and health regen along with correct gear, dodges to regen was part of skillfull play, so where does the information to make such drastic changes come from? The principles to tone down Scrapper I understand but this class has been officially murdered. Classes I have played against have not has such drastic changes, and some even more OP, all I can say is wow, didn't see that coming.

  • Straegen.2938Straegen.2938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2019

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    Removing 300 vitality in exchange for more barrier is just bizarre "balancing".

    Anet does some pretty oddball changes but this isn't one of them. The idea of making the Scrapper more reliant on active offense rather than passive defense makes a lot of sense given how absurd their passive defense was made in the prior balance patch. Bunker Scrappers pre-changes could and did run around typing "/laugh" at players trying to kill them. They could stand in place and ignore 1-2 players. Now to keep their survival up they have to rotate their offense allowing for a lot more counter play.

    If this was the class balance brought to scrappers in the first rework patch, Scrapper players would be ecstatic. What some Scrapper players are upset by is that it was stupid OP for months and they don't like losing that.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2019

    @Straegen.2938 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    Removing 300 vitality in exchange for more barrier is just bizarre "balancing".

    Anet does some pretty oddball changes but this isn't one of them. The idea of making the Scrapper more reliant on active offense rather than passive defense makes a lot of sense given how absurd their passive defense was made in the prior balance patch. Bunker Scrappers pre-changes could and did run around typing "/laugh" at players trying to kill them. They could stand in place and ignore 1-2 players. Now to keep their survival up they have to rotate their offense allowing for a lot more counter play.

    If this was the class balance brought to scrappers in the first rework patch, Scrapper players would be ecstatic. What some Scrapper players are upset by is that it was stupid OP for months and they don't like losing that.

    Yeah because that's completely different from immortal bunker mesmers that can troll 10 people, warriors that can run through 50 man zergs while taking no damage for 15+ seconds, eles you cant get below 95% hp because they instantly heal up everything.

    And who could forget seeing the Fastcar clips on the ranger.

    I wish I could forget Fastcar.

    FYI the bulwark was also heavily nerfed in the patch. Everybody expected nerfs. But not complete table flipping the traits and Anet giving the middle finger to everyone running scrapper. All other insane bunker builds maintain the sustain they had before. Well except maybe chrono.

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭

    @Straegen.2938 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    Removing 300 vitality in exchange for more barrier is just bizarre "balancing".

    Anet does some pretty oddball changes but this isn't one of them. The idea of making the Scrapper more reliant on active offense rather than passive defense makes a lot of sense given how absurd their passive defense was made in the prior balance patch. Bunker Scrappers pre-changes could and did run around typing "/laugh" at players trying to kill them. They could stand in place and ignore 1-2 players. Now to keep their survival up they have to rotate their offense allowing for a lot more counter play.

    If this was the class balance brought to scrappers in the first rework patch, Scrapper players would be ecstatic. What some Scrapper players are upset by is that it was stupid OP for months and they don't like losing that.

    Rotate what? With the latest dubious balance pass Scrappers have to actually connect with their targets, and condition damage doesn't feed the barrier. This relagates viable fights to AI opponents or people too stupid to not stand off at a distance and range/kite them. Yay? There is no countre play here.

    Read it again; KITE. THE. SCRAPPER. Pressure with ranged auto to make them waste their bag of tricks then burst them. That's all. And if they go condi and equip either rifle or pistols make time to also spam /laugh as you do all this.

    In the past scrappers laughed because wasting more than five minutes to down someone you should have either ignored or called more people to down was/still is stupid. Rotate away, or bring in more than one burst heavy/cc class to have rid of them. People found plenty of ways to play around scrappers. They just didn't want to have to do it because it inconvenienced them in some way- sort of the point to being an opponent but whatever.

    ANet haven't given scrappers anything to compensate for the comparative lack of mobility or damage, damage that doesn't require a window-licking simpleton to stand toe to toe with you without dodging or attempting to avoid your pathetic hammer strikes.

    As to upset -No, what scrapper players are upset with was that for a brief window there was something, anything they were allowed to excel at. Now it's gone and they're back to being trash tier.

    The only people happy with these changes are non-engineers and engineer players who do nothing but roam overworld and hunt non-vet/non-elite mobs by the herd. Impact savant is good for that but if it's somehow deemed 'too good' make no mistake someone at ANet will limit the amount of mobs usable as sources for outgoing strike damage for the barrier in order to cripple that bit of fun as well.

  • Henrik.7560Henrik.7560 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2019

    Bring back the reveal it's so dumb when two groups stealth up now and can't even reveal each other just replace one of the other gyro tool belt skills

    [eA] Sakura | Kaineng

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 21, 2019

    @Iozeph.5617 said:

    @Straegen.2938 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    Removing 300 vitality in exchange for more barrier is just bizarre "balancing".

    Anet does some pretty oddball changes but this isn't one of them. The idea of making the Scrapper more reliant on active offense rather than passive defense makes a lot of sense given how absurd their passive defense was made in the prior balance patch. Bunker Scrappers pre-changes could and did run around typing "/laugh" at players trying to kill them. They could stand in place and ignore 1-2 players. Now to keep their survival up they have to rotate their offense allowing for a lot more counter play.

    If this was the class balance brought to scrappers in the first rework patch, Scrapper players would be ecstatic. What some Scrapper players are upset by is that it was stupid OP for months and they don't like losing that.

    Rotate what? With the latest dubious balance pass Scrappers have to actually connect with their targets, and condition damage doesn't feed the barrier. This relagates viable fights to AI opponents or people too stupid to not stand off at a distance and range/kite them. Yay? There is no countre play here.

    Read it again; KITE. THE. SCRAPPER. Pressure with ranged auto to make them waste their bag of tricks then burst them. That's all. And if they go condi and equip either rifle or pistols make time to also spam /laugh as you do all this.

    In the past scrappers laughed because wasting more than five minutes to down someone you should have either ignored or called more people to down was/still is stupid. Rotate away, or bring in more than one burst heavy/cc class to have rid of them. People found plenty of ways to play around scrappers. They just didn't want to have to do it because it inconvenienced them in some way- sort of the point to being an opponent but whatever.

    ANet haven't given scrappers anything to compensate for the comparative lack of mobility or damage, damage that doesn't require a window-licking simpleton to stand toe to toe with you without dodging or attempting to avoid your pathetic hammer strikes.

    As to upset -No, what scrapper players are upset with was that for a brief window there was something, anything they were allowed to excel at. Now it's gone and they're back to being trash tier.

    The only people happy with these changes are non-engineers and engineer players who do nothing but roam overworld and hunt non-vet/non-elite mobs by the herd. Impact savant is good for that but if it's somehow deemed 'too good' make no mistake someone at ANet will limit the amount of mobs usable as sources for outgoing strike damage for the barrier in order to cripple that bit of fun as well.

    Thanks for explaining it to him so I don't have to.

    What other class loses that much of a core stat in exchange for something temporary, on a minor trait so you can't even chose it? Answer: none.

    It isn't making Scrapper "more reliant on active offense rather than passive defense". That's just some weird attempt at saying it is equivilant with removing defensive auto-procs (like Elixir S), which have generally been the go-to balance option. No, what it does is make a low HP profession with medium armor that won't be too interesting to play because the skills and traits don't really provide any similar risk-reward trade-off that other low HP professions provide.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    MEH, the battlefield is still full of tanky scrappers and warriors and evading daredevils running around. And groups still running around spamming massive amount of boons and shields and retaliation that take forever to break down.
    God kitten garbage combat, everything needs to be nerfed.

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic || Class Offense Defense Movement Balance is So Terribad ||

  • Shining One.1635Shining One.1635 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    And who could forget seeing the Fastcar clips on the ranger.

    I wish I could forget Fastcar.

    The fact that Fastcar also plays Scrapper should tell you how much of a tank it was.

  • @Shining One.1635 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    And who could forget seeing the Fastcar clips on the ranger.

    I wish I could forget Fastcar.

    The fact that Fastcar also plays Scrapper should tell you how much of a tank it was.

    Keyword, was.....

  • Kayowin.9217Kayowin.9217 Member ✭✭
    edited August 9, 2019

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    MEH, the battlefield is still full of tanky scrappers and warriors and evading daredevils running around. And groups still running around spamming massive amount of boons and shields and retaliation that take forever to break down.
    God kitten garbage combat, everything needs to be nerfed.

    Still full of tanky scrappers? Only tanky when protected in their group by their FB while they condi clear and uncorrupt boons which they still excel at. (And that's it) Even minstrel medi scrappers are not too hard to kill anymore.

    I dont play medi meta but the new scrapper in every other form is still garbage post patch. I want my 3k health back or I want massive burst when glass like every other kitten profession has in this kitten game.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for coming 3 weeks after the patch to let us know.
    At least scrappers now have a place in the zerg meta cause who doesn't like having mobile stealth and a boon machine. Plus lots of holos still out and roaming in groups. Also I said everything, including damage, needs a nerf. I'm just about ready to quit again for a while, too much kitten to put up with.

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic || Class Offense Defense Movement Balance is So Terribad ||

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Still seeing scrappers in team orientated set ups be it 5-15 people

  • @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
    Still seeing scrappers in team orientated set ups be it 5-15 people

    You will largely because a lot of none Scrapper things that made it good are still there. You could probably just not go Scrapper and still contribute. Really people are just eating the pretty garbage Scrapper trait line to keep access to Bulwark and Sneak Gyro.

    I am lmao'ing at the people trying to argue that the Scrapper rework was in any way a good thing. Guess those pre-patched Scrappers caused a lot of kitten pain to some people hahah.

  • Prinzsecond.4863Prinzsecond.4863 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2019

    It is just so unfair....

    before the patch I was easily able to hold my own in 1v2 and 1v3... now I have to stick to 1v1 against good Players and 1v2 against weaker Players and rarely a 1v3 lucky win if they have absolutely no clue.... hell I even started to lose in some 1v1 fights (e.g. against well played cancer condi mirages)!
    UNFAIR! Buff scrapper!

  • I still play scrapper in our guild setup and still outlive most guards on full-cleric. Damage dampener saves healscrapper in a zerg. superspeed got buffed, condition-conversion is untouched, stealth also buffed. If anything, there might be an increase in scrapper population despide 3k HP and rapid regen loss.

    Also, I recently started playing a power-zerg-scrapper variant, mostly berserk/valk with shredder/blast and object-in-motion in guild setups. Even more superspeed/CC, might-stacking, easily top-DPS and tankier than necros. Here, 15% of dmg as barrier saves you. Something like triple the barrier output than scourge. Those scrappers may appear more often in addition to the healscrappers.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    scrapper is good hide smoke fields anti condi. why ppl so salty? its good on team synergy

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dediggefedde.4961 said:
    Also, I recently started playing a power-zerg-scrapper variant, mostly berserk/valk with shredder/blast and object-in-motion in guild setups. Even more superspeed/CC, might-stacking, easily top-DPS and tankier than necros. Here, 15% of dmg as barrier saves you. Something like triple the barrier output than scourge. Those scrappers may appear more often in addition to the healscrappers.

    I call bunk on that without video proof, there is no way the zerg damage of a scrapper should be able to keep up with scourges/revs.

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:
    I call bunk on that without video proof, there is no way the zerg damage of a scrapper should be able to keep up with scourges/revs.

    I didn't know the phrase "I call bunk on that" before. ^^
    Anyway, I don't do videos recently, but here is one with a similar build from someone else before the last patch. Still feels the same playing, though.
    I think the fight at 7:00 is a good example.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    it was really unnecessary to redo a class twice... all it needed was some number shaves.

    you don't know till you know, ya know.

  • SLOTH.5231SLOTH.5231 Member ✭✭

    Give us back our vitality. It’s like you fry us a whole chicken then take it back and just leave a chicken bone. I’m not spending another dime in the store till you fix this.

  • Ghost.7032Ghost.7032 Member ✭✭
    edited August 10, 2019

    For godsake... stop giving excuses and complaining. Warrior is still fine. I made yesterday a build as spellbreaker for one of my guild member. He nail it he killed, stayed alive as last men standing and hes dps is awesome. Depends on the player and your team. If the team doesn't fuction well then yea don't expect you'll wipe a zerg. Yea i didn't like it either that scrapper got nerfed again but i fixed the problem again... cause thanks to people asking nerfing so much give leaders, commanders so much work cause they want an easy way instead of the hard way.

    Stop asking the easy things. Start doing the hard way and keep on learning lol..

    People has to stop asking nerfing so much or buffing so much. Start the do teamwork and check what your faults are and learn from it.

    I organised 15+ pug group with commanding chat without discord. We wiped 40+.. depends on team and the commander you have.

  • @Dediggefedde.4961 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    I call bunk on that without video proof, there is no way the zerg damage of a scrapper should be able to keep up with scourges/revs.

    I didn't know the phrase "I call bunk on that" before. ^^
    Anyway, I don't do videos recently, but here is one with a similar build from someone else before the last patch. Still feels the same playing, though.
    I think the fight at 7:00 is a good example.

    This is an interesting detour in the thread, saw it at work yesterday but couldn't respond until today so I was kind of beaten to it.

    Anyway, Engineers have access 5-man cleave auto attacks (bombs, mortars) which has always given them the potential to score high DPS, at the same time, there has never been much spike in it and it has always had application issues. So it has sometimes made sense in high-pressure comps but never really been a staple. As for the application issues Dedi's video showcases them as well as it showcases the potential DPS. You can see the Scrapper doing well against the green team but poorly against the blue team. So what is the difference? The blue team has understood that reflects exist while the green team has virtually zero reflects. The first few fights also has some ideal positioning that isn't normative. The fights against the blue are more normative and you will quickly see Weavers, Revs and Scourges climb the meter - and that is then only a DPS meter - so they also more importantly have better spikes, controls and off-effects even if we look past the application issues.

    So what's my point? If people want to lob mortars or pop bombs, by all means do it. It's a fun niche, just don't claim that it is a functional normative role or that it is something that meshes with the idea and role of what the class or specs are supposed to be. That's an overreach. It also ties back to the topic of this thread. While the nerfs did hit the meta minstrel builds, what it really hurt was these kinds of creative and useful off-builds because even the mortar approach lost more from the patch than the meta build did. It was far more useful when all those gyros you have rolling gave more team support and you could play an outlier role with the additional F5's. The meta build lost the least from the nerfs because that build has natural access to vitality, spend less time using F5's and uses more kits with the spray can et. al.

    What lost the most were fun team builds that dabbled into some hybrid stats (ie., some heal and damage) without vitality and looked at finding ways to make things like the heal gyro work, you know, the scrapper's heal on a scrapper :# . They were the big losers here. The meta build certainly didn't lose enough to make a zerk-bomber more useful, or any other build that even uses any of the new higher tier traits, at all. It's the builds that don't care about them that thrives and I can't think of a better argument for how bad the changes were. The tree is uninteresting past adept and you basically just pick the tree now for half of the gyros and access to superspeed. Everything it does is in core.

  • @Kayowin.9217 said:
    Keyword, was.....

    He still plays it, so it can't be that easy to kill. I see him on it more than his Druid.

  • @subversiontwo.7501
    Thanks for taking time to reply.
    It's about "Scrapper in WvW" and concerning the current state, so I don't think it's a detour. ^^

    The build does not use bomb-kit and would have a high dps loss trying to use bombs. That's mainly because of the radius of blast/shredder gyro. A big part of its dps comes from gyro/hammer use, while a big part of its survivability comes from the 15% barrier trait. So, any core build will die early in fight and have trouble seeing the top-dps position. In my opinion, this build actually gained from the last patch, since object-in-motion and 15% barrier trait benefits it.

    Mortar use is always complicated and I also think that the video-maker didn't do it well in all occasions. But it has the possibility to fly over reflects and offers additional pressure on range + soft-CC (blinds/chill) in Close-combar. Occasionally I use it still in guild setups on Dzago and get into the top-dps part. Then I often use sneak-gyro for the smoke-fields, though.

    In my opinion, it has its place comparing it to other classes/builds. It has many CC skills, some group-might and a lot of group-superspeed on short-CD. it can't replace a rev/guard/necro/minstr-scrapper, but if enough of those are present it's a great choice to bring additional dps to the zerk.
    Also, in times of high queues, it's great to be able to switch between valid zerg-supporter and -dps without leaving the map.

  • Prinzsecond.4863Prinzsecond.4863 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2019

    After I got accused and trashtalked once more to use a noob-trash-condi-build.... against which the Opponent of course did not stand a Chance.... it is another proof that Condi Scrapper still is a Thing in roaming ^^

    I know the traits are not optimal in their current state, but I am by far not the best player out there and can still hold my own against 95% of the enemies. So it Looks probably worse than it actually is.

  • @XenesisII.1540 said:
    Thanks for coming 3 weeks after the patch to let us know.
    At least scrappers now have a place in the zerg meta cause who doesn't like having mobile stealth and a boon machine. Plus lots of holos still out and roaming in groups. Also I said everything, including damage, needs a nerf. I'm just about ready to quit again for a while, too much kitten to put up with.

    Actually, I have posted quite a bit on it. (And several other times in this thread) I have been spending time trying to envision the new scrapper as something outside the condi conversion meta that it is and has been even before the last patch. (Which I also mentioned in the post if you read the first paragraph) It is still good in its role (PoP) and as a 5 man stealth bomb and that's pretty much it. Some of us enjoyed playing other scrapper builds than the medi meta but ANet did a great job in killing them all except some condi. (I do not play condi Scrapper)

    I agree with you wholeheartedly on the nerfing but I doubt ANet has the guts to do it. I keep trying to quit but somehow keep holding on to hope that a miracle will happen. (probably a sign of the state of my sanity with this game)

  • @Shining One.1635 said:

    @Kayowin.9217 said:
    Keyword, was.....

    He still plays it, so it can't be that easy to kill. I see him on it more than his Druid.

    Not to hard or easy, I guess it could be said your way or mine. Scrappers are not the bunkers that they used to be with little benefit (far below parity) to offset the nerfs. There are far worse things in this game that continue to go unchecked or receive buffs where nerfs are needed.

  • @Dediggefedde.4961 said:
    stealth also buffed. If anything, there might be an increase in scrapper population despide 3k HP and rapid regen loss.

    I have seen the opposite (far less scrappers) except in medi being used in comp groups as it still is meta and only its survivablilty took a hit. (Not its ability to clear/convert condis as you and everyone else has said)

    Stealth has been nerfed with SG (before the last BP) but it is still good and blastable. If you mean buffed because no more detection field, I guess you might have a point but that would be all stealth.

  • @subversiontwo.7501 said:

    @Dediggefedde.4961 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    I call bunk on that without video proof, there is no way the zerg damage of a scrapper should be able to keep up with scourges/revs.

    I didn't know the phrase "I call bunk on that" before. ^^
    Anyway, I don't do videos recently, but here is one with a similar build from someone else before the last patch. Still feels the same playing, though.
    I think the fight at 7:00 is a good example.

    This is an interesting detour in the thread, saw it at work yesterday but couldn't respond until today so I was kind of beaten to it.

    Anyway, Engineers have access 5-man cleave auto attacks (bombs, mortars) which has always given them the potential to score high DPS, at the same time, there has never been much spike in it and it has always had application issues. So it has sometimes made sense in high-pressure comps but never really been a staple. As for the application issues Dedi's video showcases them as well as it showcases the potential DPS. You can see the Scrapper doing well against the green team but poorly against the blue team. So what is the difference? The blue team has understood that reflects exist while the green team has virtually zero reflects. The first few fights also has some ideal positioning that isn't normative. The fights against the blue are more normative and you will quickly see Weavers, Revs and Scourges climb the meter - and that is then only a DPS meter - so they also more importantly have better spikes, controls and off-effects even if we look past the application issues.

    So what's my point? If people want to lob mortars or pop bombs, by all means do it. It's a fun niche, just don't claim that it is a functional normative role or that it is something that meshes with the idea and role of what the class or specs are supposed to be. That's an overreach. It also ties back to the topic of this thread. While the nerfs did hit the meta minstrel builds, what it really hurt was these kinds of creative and useful off-builds because even the mortar approach lost more from the patch than the meta build did. It was far more useful when all those gyros you have rolling gave more team support and you could play an outlier role with the additional F5's. The meta build lost the least from the nerfs because that build has natural access to vitality, spend less time using F5's and uses more kits with the spray can et. al.

    What lost the most were fun team builds that dabbled into some hybrid stats (ie., some heal and damage) without vitality and looked at finding ways to make things like the heal gyro work, you know, the scrapper's heal on a scrapper :# . They were the big losers here. The meta build certainly didn't lose enough to make a zerk-bomber more useful, or any other build that even uses any of the new higher tier traits, at all. It's the builds that don't care about them that thrives and I can't think of a better argument for how bad the changes were. The tree is uninteresting past adept and you basically just pick the tree now for half of the gyros and access to superspeed. Everything it does is in core.

    Well said!

    Also I would like to add, mortar kit damage was buffed awhile ago but it is normally shunned as you usually do more damage to your team that you do to the enemy or play tennis with the slow moving and easily avoidable mortar rounds. (as SubversionTwo alluded to) The MK is mostly useful for destroying siege and combo fields. The arc it travels is slow and useless most of the time when used it tactical situations. If it worked more like a true mortar and came down on enemies from above, that would be fantastic!

  • @Dediggefedde.4961 said:
    @subversiontwo.7501

    Mortar use is always complicated and I also think that the video-maker didn't do it well in all occasions. But it has the possibility to fly over reflects and offers additional pressure on range + soft-CC (blinds/chill) in Close-combar. Occasionally I use it still in guild setups on Dzago and get into the top-dps part.

    "possibility to fly over reflects" is a rare thing unless you have a sizable elevation advantage and even then if the target is close to the reflect it still is bounced back. MK rounds are agonizingly slow but at least you can move away from the reflected round easily enough.

  • @Kayowin.9217
    Actually, it can go over most reflects without you beeing elevated, but the arch must be fitting. It won't go over a warrior bubble, but firebrand-F3-3 is easy. With elevation, you can even shoot over walls and gates.

    You also need to look a bit where you aim at, work with splash-damage, put fields where the zerg runs to etc.
    At least our enemies get hit by it most of the time. splash damage can also go through some walls if fights happen at interesting locations.

  • @Dediggefedde.4961 said:
    @Kayowin.9217
    Actually, it can go over most reflects without you beeing elevated, but the arch must be fitting. It won't go over a warrior bubble, but firebrand-F3-3 is easy. With elevation, you can even shoot over walls and gates.

    You also need to look a bit where you aim at, work with splash-damage, put fields where the zerg runs to etc.
    At least our enemies get hit by it most of the time. splash damage can also go through some walls if fights happen at interesting locations.

    I use MK at times when needed and have over 1500 hours on scrapper on one toon alone but I have a very different experience with the MK. (I have three engis in total) I have found that most walls reflect it easily as well unless the wall is exactly mid point between you and your target while accommodating for the MK's sub par range. Hence why I say it is a rarity when you can use it to lob over reflects. I know they buffed the damage for MK but that is the thing that really needed a true overhaul on scrapper. They might as well delete it and buff/replace it with grenade kit. If you have a video of such consistently putting it over a guardians wall utility or other non bubble personal reflects, post it as I do not have one.

  • @Kayowin.9217 said:
    If you have a video of such consistently putting it over a guardians wall utility or other non bubble personal reflects, post it as I do not have one.

    Such a video would be trivial and not proving much.
    The mortar-arch reaches roughly double the height of a guard-wall and travels 1500 range. If the arch is respecting gravity the arch could be described by h=-3.6e-6(x-750)+2 in units of guardian-wall-heights when shot at even ground. Neglecting the wall depth you can check the intersection with h=1 (wall height) and get a range of going as close to 223 and as far as 1280 before the projectile is reflected.
    So, any video where the guardian wall is between 250 and 1200 range the arch should fit.

    The main problem is in zerg fights, where walls and bubbles will suddenly open at the target. If the zergs stack at 1200 range to avoid rev-dmg, the mortar is often easy at reaching and rarely reflected. In pirateshipping situations more reflects are up, and in close-combat I usually only use tactical fields at close-range and camp hammer.
    So, in my opinion, a more interesting video would be of the targeting in big zerg fights and different locations.
    The videos I have a usually from my guild, so they are private and all use the sneak-gyro.

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