Chronomancer changes need a hotfixing — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Chronomancer changes need a hotfixing

Hi, i am a Mesmer main sitting in platinum, with being in the top 25 back when leaderboards were around... with roughly 9k mesmer games and ~6k wins.

i am clearly saying that with the current changes to chronomancer, i believe a hotfix is needed immediately. Illusionary persona should be brought back to chronomancer and separate continuum shift from distortion bringing back 5 shatter abilities.

Originally when the game came out, illusionary persona was essential for any shatter mesmer. It allows a mesmer to shatter on contact, like blink diversion and to distortion on call when needed while setting up either mind wrack bursts and or condi bursts with cry of frustration. This essential trait was added by popular demand of the mesmer community and has hence forth been a key to their overall success. The problem with mesmer was they were not able to really shatter, with all the aoe our clones would instantly be destroyed and in a pinch we were not able to use skills that are core to every mesmer just because we didn't have clones? With the added illusionary persona being baseline, mesmer have been able to create plays or turn around a fight with and more importantly, without clones.

Now chronomancer was stripped of distortion and illusionary persona? How does even make sense when mesmer didn't need clones to shatter. We can't use our core skills because we dont have clones? That is a problem revisiting prior to the 2015 patch where illusionary persona became baseline for all mesmers. Chronomancer does not feel like a mesmer, it feels outdated and backwards. Instead of creating sick plays and turning around fights with shatters, im simply not able to shatter. There is too much going on in the game currently, for chronomancer to be forced to shatter without illusionary persona. Here's why, with every class basically aoe cleaving, clones become destroyed instantaneously, thus not allowing chronomancer to use its core skills? That would be like thief not being to steal or a gaurdian being locked out of virtues. That is beyond frustrating and doesn't seem right. right? The other issues is that i cant instantly shatter phantasms anymore(i spoke about this before), thus once casted i can no longer shatter them for shatter affects, i am forced to wait for them to finish and then wait for them to generate a clone then shatter, that is problematic when building up illusions for powerful shatters(that change ultimately paved the way for phantasm mesmers to rise in power, while it hurt shatter mesmers who just shattered the phantasm for a more powerful affect).
When trying to shatter on chronomancer, it felt fluid... now it feels outdated and clunky. Chronomancer cannot distortion which is a major issue and cannot shatter without clones...

I recommend seriously hotfixing chronomancer, either reverting the current changes. Or simply giving back illusionary persona and separating distortion from continuum shift and allowing chronomancer 5 shatter skills.

Comments

  • Mithos.9023Mithos.9023 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2019

    How about this, for chrono to be distinguished from base mesmer and mirage, if shatters worked different. For example what if all shatters worked like continuum split? All shatters would take place on the mesmer and leave a mark behind. If the mark is destroyed, the effect ends. All shatters would pulse around the mesmer, F1 pulse damage, F2 pulse confusion and F3 daze. Shattering more clones would prolong the effect. With these changes I think we could bring F4, Ip and shattering without clones back. As the effect could be stopped from outside by destroying the mark there would be counter play and a distinguished downside.

    But as Delofasht.4231 said, maybe it is time to revisit clones in general. They are the main culprit why mesmer is general underperforming in wvw. Clones are cleaved too fast. I think we all know the situation. One or two mesmer per Zerg anymore simply won’t help as you don’t need more vails, and they can’t bring much to the table. They can’t use their class skills to the fullest. The whole skill packet is balanced around small scale 5v5 pvp. Their class identity simply is not up for anything else. And no other class has to suffer from a similar epitome. Does warrior loose adrenaline through random hits? Are guardians tomes deactivated through cleave? Only ranger I would think is and was in a similar situation.

    Edit: Just a small thought that cam to me by the end of writing, what if the clone counter was replaced by some kind of energy bar. Every time a clone gets up you get energy, and can use this to shatter. So you wouldn't loos everything the moment the clones are destroid. Of course it would need some balance adjustments but your clones would behave more like a ressource an be no longer just fodder. This might also help in pve as you no longer would loose everything the moment a enemy dies and your clones dissapear.

  • Tomas.6092Tomas.6092 Member ✭✭

    All I want is boonshare SoI back and i'll be happy

    EU - Whiteside Ridge
    Tequila No Lemons
    [Kill] Gotta Kill Em All

    MagSwag

  • Yeah :/ I main chrono...or did till this happened. It’s loteraly useless in a PvP/Wvw scenario now, I can’t speak for pve

  • Agreed 300%, please give us back Illusionary Persona and all 5 shatter skills. They're really mandatory to the chrono gameplay, not just that chrono is quite weaker without them and often doesn't stand a chance against other classes, it's simply no fun and pure frustration. The changes to F1, F2 and F3 would fine imho, with a bit of tweaking and balancing. But as it stands now, I'm about to drop my favourite class with over 9000 hours of playtime since I'm really, truly and utterly frustrated. Maybe I should stop playing GW2.

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭

    @AllNightPlayer.1286 said:
    Do Chronomancers’ clones come with 100 % more health or how am I supposed to shatter them in WvW zergfights? Maybe it is time for clones to get the 90 % damage reduction from PvE, if they are not directly targeted.

    At least in WvW, this is necessary. Chronomancer is pretty much useless without clones, so it's imperative that their clones should last more than a blink.

    The suggestion from Mithos is also sound, as it allows shatter usage based on clones spawned and is not reliant on the clones surviving to do so.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just imagine the qq if clones became invuln. I mean, the monkey holo complained that clones have too much hp and needed a nerf! :3

    The degenerate

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Just imagine the qq if clones became invuln. I mean, the monkey holo complained that clones have too much hp and needed a nerf! :3

    Yeah, it's like i got to press one button on my keyboard to kill the clones.. too much work not casual lazy anoth for me.

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • Mikkel.8427Mikkel.8427 Member ✭✭✭

    @Delofasht.4231 said:
    My assessment is that clone reliance for the profession as a whole is a problem, they should not be able to be killed or targeted, but neither should they apply any kind of damage, all damage should be funneled through the Mesmer; including shatter damage, by way of on next hit effects. Target breaks should make the Mesmer not targetable for a brief duration. A few traits would need adjusting (rending shatters, cry of pain, time catches up). This would solve basically all of the issues with clones, being distracting for enemies and a destroyable resource for Mesmers, of all kinds, Mirage and Chrono included.

    Several Mesmer effects and condition applying auto attacks would likely need to be boosted based on the number of clones in play (sword auto combo boon strips, conditions applied by weapons). All this revolving around the idea of less passive effects applied by AI and require at least facing our enemy, but also indicating to the enemy that the Mesmer has more damage up when clones are up.

    This is my hope and dream, because I want the profession normalized a bit and the perception of the profession changed (not OP anymore, clones not a distraction, damage telegraphed and avoidable).

    I would love something like this.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think they should revert the shatter changes but keep cs as f4. If they want a drawback for chrono, not having distort should be a pretty big one.

  • CharJC.8365CharJC.8365 Member ✭✭

    Heck at this point I would be ... can't say happy, but just a little bit hopeful/surprised if they said ANYTHING.... This games communication is unbelievable.

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭

    @Genesis.7864 said:
    This last patch.. I tried going to core mesmer and found it is actually BETTER besides feeling very sluggish without the boons and 25% passive minor trait. Still, it doesn't make up for the CS and extra phantasm cast.

    I might make another separate thread for this, pre-patch I remember roughly listing numbers as:

    • DT chrono (enemy w/ slow): 37k
    • Non DT chrono (enemy w/o slow): ~30k
    • Core mes: ~27k
    • Mirage: ~24k? (lol)
    • Disclaimer: I’ve put ~ to indicate projected benchmarks since I am incapable of actually getting them myself, and no one else does them.

    Post patch, all power builds got hit by an undocumented change to F1, but ‘no-slow’ chrono got hit the hardest because its F1 got a crazy 36% shave. Therefore post patch numbers would look something like:

    • Chrono w/ slow: 37k
    • No-slow Chrono: ~27-28k
    • Core mes: ~26k
    • Mirage: ~25k? :yum:

    So even with the seemingly ridiculous trait Chronophantasma and Csplit, chrono w/o slow is not that much of a better pick than core.

    What’s hidden behind the numbers is the fact how no-slow chrono’s benchmarks are boosted by its superbursts. It’s burst sits in the mid to high 30k’s, while it’s sustain dmg is now fairly garbage hovering around or below 20k. Core actually maintains a constant figure throughout, making it a clearly better choice for open world and similar scenarios where chronoburst is too excessive.

    pChrono (main), cWeaver and pReaper. An asura who likes snowflakes.

  • Between this patch and the Dec. 11th patch it's obvious that someone at Anet is seriously out to destroy this class.

  • Me Games Ma.8426Me Games Ma.8426 Member ✭✭✭

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    Between this patch and the Dec. 11th patch it's obvious that someone at Anet is seriously out to destroy this class.

    I suspect that Robert Gee, the man behind chronomancer and Mirage, is no longer working on the balance team (or gw2 in general?). On the forums his last post was about the time they(he) did phantasm rework and I believe that's also his last piece of work that went into the game. It's sad to see that a man with the talent to design fun classes is no longer there.

  • Genesis.7864Genesis.7864 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 19, 2019

    Right, Chrono is only better in Raids for support and tank (little iffy here now). But even with fractals, if going dps just use core mesmer, can't go wrong with the distortion and self-shatter.
    If in PvE: Go core mesmer, less stressful trying to maintain that Slow constantly for every enemy approached. And with the removal of Distortion, it's not as survivable in metas like DB Shatterer, Chak Gerent and many others.. Just gotta go back to using speed runes or traveler runes if wanting that sweet speed bonus.

    Back in the day, there was at least a trait for self-shattering which I always used. Even when I had chrono.
    When the trait was given by default to mesmer: that's when builds really opened up. And now having that stripped from Chrono completely:
    Honestly, it feels as if we're being punished for even using Chrono

  • Jables.4659Jables.4659 Member ✭✭

    @Kyley.9436 said:
    I have quietly sat through nerf after nerf while the broken mirage has been buffed.

    Are we playing the same game? Both Condi and Power Mirage were brokenly overpowered at PoF launch, but Mirage has received nerf after nerf to the point where Power Mirage is underperforming compared to other classes and Condi Mirage is... less cancer. Imo the issue with mirage is and has always been Infinite Horizon which allows Condi Mirages to play passively 75% of the time and still deal damage. its reminiscent of the old Phantasm Mesmer and Conditions on clone death builds that Anet jumped through hoops to rid the game of. Back to the point, regardless of your feelings towards Mirage, lets not pretend that it hasn't received a litany of nerfs with no buffs to speak of except Dune Cloak.

  • Jables.4659Jables.4659 Member ✭✭

    @Genesis.7864 said:

    Back in the day, there was at least a trait for self-shattering which I always used. Even when I had chrono.

    Illusionary Persona was removed from the game 4 months before Chronomancer existed. I agree though, the lack of IP on Chronomancer is trash tier.

  • Genesis.7864Genesis.7864 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 19, 2019

    @Jables.4659 said:

    @Genesis.7864 said:

    Back in the day, there was at least a trait for self-shattering which I always used. Even when I had chrono.

    Illusionary Persona was removed from the game 4 months before Chronomancer existed. I agree though, the lack of IP on Chronomancer is trash tier.

    Right. I quit then too. Lol. Mesmer is worthless without it since self shattering is very versatile in terms of tactical, offensive and defensive.
    I feel handicapped as Chrono now so I am not ever touching that "Elite" again. If anyone could even consider to call it that.
    Unless anet reverts just that change.. Otherwise why not remove FA from just Weaver, remove toolkits from Holosmith, remove every useful key component of each Elite and rename from "Elite Specialization" to "Handicapped Specialization" and call it a day.
    Everyone will go back to playing core builds for a little while until they realize this game is terribly unbalanced after all the nerfs and now it's no longer fun.

    Balancing is what ultimately destroyed so many other MMOs. Balancing even broke Overwatch which isn't even an mmo but that's a lesson that needs to be learned.
    I'm fine with some builds being able to counter me in pvp. It's like in gw1. There are always counter builds which made teamwork more of a requirement than an option.
    Making pvp more of a soloable idea is the worst idea in the history of every mmo. It's not fun. It's impossible. Also it results in a lot of angry people who invested a lot of time and money in this game.
    As for PvE content: why make the game harder when that was the entire point of GW2 in comparison to GW1?
    We bought the expansions for these elite specializations which we've had for years now and finally are becoming nerfed each and every patch to become as weak or if not weaker than their core build. I can just imagine how this will negatively impact most metas, raids and fractals.
    I understand it'll make the game more challenging but there's a difference between "challenging" and "frustrating". To me: this nerf is incredibly frustrating.

    Btw. I'm not saying that balancing is bad. I'm saying that constantly attempting to overbalance things will break other things in the process like a game of cat and mouse. Nothing will ever be perfectly balanced.. GW1 had balanced pvp and in a sense there were professions which far outperformed others. It just meant we had to use more communication.
    Pvp in gw2 lacks communication and each patch it's getting worse.
    The characters that get nerfed for "balancing" aren't the ones that need the nerfs.
    Sure chrono was strong in pvp. But why break it entirely in both pve and pvp?

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭

    @Me Games Ma.8426 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    Between this patch and the Dec. 11th patch it's obvious that someone at Anet is seriously out to destroy this class.

    I suspect that Robert Gee, the man behind chronomancer and Mirage, is no longer working on the balance team (or gw2 in general?). On the forums his last post was about the time they(he) did phantasm rework and I believe that's also his last piece of work that went into the game. It's sad to see that a man with the talent to design fun classes is no longer there.

    That is what I said back in October in a bit more ardent manor and got infracted/banned from the forums for a bit.

  • Me Games Ma.8426Me Games Ma.8426 Member ✭✭✭

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @Me Games Ma.8426 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    Between this patch and the Dec. 11th patch it's obvious that someone at Anet is seriously out to destroy this class.

    I suspect that Robert Gee, the man behind chronomancer and Mirage, is no longer working on the balance team (or gw2 in general?). On the forums his last post was about the time they(he) did phantasm rework and I believe that's also his last piece of work that went into the game. It's sad to see that a man with the talent to design fun classes is no longer there.

    That is what I said back in October in a bit more ardent manor and got infracted/banned from the forums for a bit.

    Wait what part of that got you bannes?
    Were you offensive regarding the other devs?

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Me Games Ma.8426 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @Me Games Ma.8426 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:
    Between this patch and the Dec. 11th patch it's obvious that someone at Anet is seriously out to destroy this class.

    I suspect that Robert Gee, the man behind chronomancer and Mirage, is no longer working on the balance team (or gw2 in general?). On the forums his last post was about the time they(he) did phantasm rework and I believe that's also his last piece of work that went into the game. It's sad to see that a man with the talent to design fun classes is no longer there.

    That is what I said back in October in a bit more ardent manor and got infracted/banned from the forums for a bit.

    Wait what part of that got you bannes?
    Were you offensive regarding the other devs?

    These moderators are ultrasensitive or just bored at work, just got moderated for saying "don't be mad because mes outskilled you" on a nerf mirage thread.

    The degenerate

  • rabenpriester.7129rabenpriester.7129 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2019

    It's the official forums, dude. What do you expect if you underpay some outsourced indian guy?

  • Chorazin.4107Chorazin.4107 Member ✭✭✭

    @rabenpriester.7129 said:
    It's the official forums, dude. What do you expect if you underpay some outsourced indian guy?

    Yeah these forums are not only worthless for any sort of constructive feedback. But also more heavily moderated than Jews in kitten Germany.

    Pretty much log on, play, laugh at how bad some kitten is. Log off. Complaining on the forums is a waste of time. Even if the critique is well thought out, sensible and has good data behind the conclusion drawn.

    [lion] - [tRex] - [nâh/UwU/yep]

  • @Chorazin.4107 said:

    @rabenpriester.7129 said:
    It's the official forums, dude. What do you expect if you underpay some outsourced indian guy?

    Yeah these forums are not only worthless for any sort of constructive feedback. But also more heavily moderated than Jews in kitten Germany.

    Pretty much log on, play, laugh at how bad some kitten is. Log off. Complaining on the forums is a waste of time. Even if the critique is well thought out, sensible and has good data behind the conclusion drawn.

    You say that, but you'd be surprised how many of the changes that get suggested or even mentioned get implemented. For example, I highly suspect that I'm personally responsible to the changes to Mallyx, because in my baseline tests I lamented that all of the DPS for condi renegade was locked into two skills.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Chorazin.4107 said:

    @rabenpriester.7129 said:
    It's the official forums, dude. What do you expect if you underpay some outsourced indian guy?

    Yeah these forums are not only worthless for any sort of constructive feedback. But also more heavily moderated than Jews in kitten Germany.

    Pretty much log on, play, laugh at how bad some kitten is. Log off. Complaining on the forums is a waste of time. Even if the critique is well thought out, sensible and has good data behind the conclusion drawn.

    You say that, but you'd be surprised how many of the changes that get suggested or even mentioned get implemented.

    That's exactly what scares me.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Chorazin.4107 said:

    @rabenpriester.7129 said:
    It's the official forums, dude. What do you expect if you underpay some outsourced indian guy?

    Yeah these forums are not only worthless for any sort of constructive feedback. But also more heavily moderated than Jews in kitten Germany.

    Pretty much log on, play, laugh at how bad some kitten is. Log off. Complaining on the forums is a waste of time. Even if the critique is well thought out, sensible and has good data behind the conclusion drawn.

    You say that, but you'd be surprised how many of the changes that get suggested or even mentioned get implemented. For example, I highly suspect that I'm personally responsible to the changes to Mallyx, because in my baseline tests I lamented that all of the DPS for condi renegade was locked into two skills.

    Every single mirage nerf was preceded by a respective "suggestion" as a nerf x and mirage will be fine. Every single time.
    Some buffs are also taken into account but are fewer.
    While I suggested and compiled a mesmer community buffs/thread, I would have prefered if ANerf had some competent people buffing and nerfing according to their own vision.

    The degenerate

  • tim.4596tim.4596 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2019

    Thank you for making this main post.

    I'm also chrono main, and the changes feels awful... I'm trying very hard to "accept" the changes but really this is too much.... the no more shatter just feels awful... not being able to shatter during continum just feels awful. I don't mind so much the distortion removal, it just make the game harder overall, but the distortion on the new F4 kind of make up for it so it's alright. Also as it is right now., core mesmer shatter deal more damage than Chronomancer shatter... that's not right. We've been stripped out of shatter and on top of that the core shatter skill do less damage than core mesmer ?? How does this make sense ???? I know that slow is supposed to make up for it, but really it doesnt.

  • Genesis.7864Genesis.7864 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah, it really doesnt. The slow + shatter adds 33% and still doesn't make up for the 36% overall damage loss.
    The 1 second flat distortion rate upon using CS makes it not worthwhile to use it defensively or tactically. It's purely an offensive shatter now. The distortion on CS is 100% superfluous seeing as it's only 1 second regardless of shattering 1 clone or 3 clones.
    It's okay, I agree, but I'd fine it better to turn it into 3 stacks of stability or something more useful than a stupid useless 1 second evade.
    There's really no redemption here. It's been a major target in nerfs. This last one did it for me to the point I switched to core mesmer. Sadly I liked the boon sharing and wells.. Being forced to choose between clone generation or wells is not a good idea.

  • Vincenzo.3145Vincenzo.3145 Member ✭✭✭

    GW2classic when?

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