Three Suggestions to the New Patch Changes

I think there were a lot of good changes in this patch, so thank you, Anet!There are some changes that would make it even better, I think...

• Shadow Portal: This new skill will unleash the shadow magic at your prepared location, creating a one-way portal that you and your allies can take. Allies traveling through the portal will be granted stealth, and foes around the portal's exit will be weakened. This skill is split between game modes, allowing 5 allies through in PvE and WvW, while only allowing one ally through in PvP.

In PvP, please make this allow 2 users... Thief + 1 ally. Personally, I'd like the activation to be an instant teleport for the Thief, and only the ally/allies would need to manually use the portal. But yet, thank you for the "fixed Shadow Trap"... and also vindication against the haters.

Minor

• Concealing Restoration: With this new trait, casting your heal skill grants 2 seconds of stealth.

This being a Minor trait concerns me. It's got that vibe that made the old Last Refuge despised... no choice to opt out of this Stealth. Fortunately, it does require a manual activation. Unfortunately, it will force a choice between a needed heal and maintaining contestation of a point. So please... for the best of both worlds, merge into one of the Shadow Arts Minor traits the ability to contest a point temporarily after entering Stealth. This will allow the entire traitline to actually be useful in PvP. Fortunately, several of the changes do benefit the Thief even outside Stealth.

• Leeching Venoms: This trait has been moved to new slot in the same tier. It no longer reduces recharge of venoms. Instead it causes the thief to stack spider venom automatically while in stealth.

With other elite utilities becoming so much more powerful than Basilisk Venom, I would suggest that this trait instead grant a single use of a Lesser Basilisk Venom (stun for 3/4 of a second) instead of Spider Venom. If a true stun is too much, then a single use of Devourer Venom would suffice, and would also synergize with Panic Strike for the Poison.

Imma say no to 1 and 2.

For the portal, the current functionality gives it a lot of utility and uses. Allowing only two to use it max would severely limit the use unnecessarily. Especially in PvP where thiefs role is already lack luster. Also, theres a few reasons I can think of on why this skill should not instantly teleport thief. First, its approaching Shadow steps territory. Only in this case the portal is significantly better as an escape. The second is a thief may not desire to follow the portal through. The theif can run over somewhere. Get something going like a decap. And return to his team to give them a teleport onto point while he goes elsewhere.

For 2. A recharging stun on cloak already sounds toxic as all hell to fight. Basilisk Venom is pretty weak for what it is. But having access to the ability to outright stun someone repeatedly on a class known for stacking stealth?

@"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:Allowing only two to use it max would severely limit the use unnecessarily. Especially in PvP where thiefs role is already lack luster.

Unless what I've read is inaccurate (I haven't had the opportunity to test it out fully), the portal only allows one person to use it in PvP... that if a Thief's ally uses the portal before the Thief, then the Thief is out of luck if he meant to use it for himself. Is this true? I'm speaking specifically for PvP here (leave it at 5 for PvE/WvW), but 2 is better than 1, I would think. It would allow a bit more use for the Thief without making the Mesmer's portal obsolete. Currently, if only one person can use it, it's basically just a heavily nerfed Shadow Trap without the pathfinding issues.

EDIT: The description of Shadow Portal is not exactly clear. The description mentions the portal is for "you and your allies," though that was clearly written for WvW and PvE instead of PvP. For PvP, it lists it as affecting "Number of Allied Targets: 1"... so does that include the Thief or not?

Also, theres a few reasons I can think of on why this skill should not instantly teleport thief. First, its approaching Shadow steps territory. Only in this case the portal is significantly better as an escape. The second is a thief may not desire to follow the portal through. The theif can run over somewhere. Get something going like a decap. And return to his team to give them a teleport onto point while he goes elsewhere.

Yes, the current functionality does have some more tactical uses. Though as an escape tool, an instant teleport (after having prepared the escape point beforehand ala Shadow Trap) would be a QoL improvement over having to both activate and enter the portal (two actions) in order to teleport... especially if on the move. It wouldn't be that much of a QoL improvement, but it would feel less clunky... just as the change to Deadeye's Silent Scope was when you no longer had to kneel to cancel the ICD between dodge rolls.

For 2. A recharging stun on cloak already sounds toxic as all hell to fight. Basilisk Venom is pretty weak for what it is. But having access to the ability to outright stun someone repeatedly on a class known for stacking stealth?

Indeed, it's the age-old Stealth debate again. Maybe I'm missing the old "opening burst out of Stealth with Basilisk Venom" to keep opponents on their toes. I know it kept me on mine as a glass Thief, always with a finger on a stun-break for when other Thieves jumped me... making me a better player.

I'll just have to use the old defenses of Stealth. Revealed lasts 3-4 seconds at least. Stealth costs resources to enter. The stun/immobilize venom gained from the trait would be capped at one, making Stealth stacking irrelevant in this case.

Sword/X and Pistol/X Thieves can already spam Immobilize. X/Pistol Thieves can already spam Daze. This would just add another source of stun/immobilize to fill in the gaps for other weapon sets... especially setting up Stealth bursts as they used to be.

I think the it really depends on the type of venom gained. I like the idea of Lesser variants, though, whether it's Basilisk Venom or Devourer Venom. Making them both blockable and short duration (between 1/2 and 3/4 of a second) seems fitting. Although they are "rechargeable" through Stealth, the Thief still has to sit there in Stealth for 3 seconds before each use. And if used as a Stealth burst (harder to avoid than non-Stealth), the Thief still has to wait another 3-4 seconds before entering Stealth to begin the 3-second wait again.

At the very least, it would help make up for the 1-second ICD of Stealth Attacks, but I digress :-P

Id add to that that the Shadows Restoration Trait should be swapped back for Shadows Resilience, while Cloaked in Shadows either should be swapped back, or given a once per blind clause (so no multiple siphons on an AoE blind) in exchange for buffing the heal value 15-fold. The damage should be upped as well, but maybe not 15-fold.

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:Allowing only two to use it max would severely limit the use unnecessarily. Especially in PvP where thiefs role is already lack luster.

Yes. One person only in pvp. Thief is ally. So you or them, not both.

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Yes. One person only in pvp. Thief is ally. So you or them, not both.

Thanks. That is quite sad, and seems to call for a change in the description.

I really do like that it's a dependable teleport for the Thief, unlike Shadow Trap... but it seems to be quite lacking in PvP compared to Shadow Trap... giving up all the Might, Fury, and Vulnerability when traited. I don't so much mind the range being halved (you never got 5k ports anyway because of the broken pathfinding), but the Stealth is more than halved also.

The least that Shadow Portal in PvP could offer in exchange for all of the above is allowing a second player to use the portal also. Perhaps make the Weakness last for the full 8 second duration as well.

All they need for Cloak Venom is to stack on new application of Stealth.

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

@"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:Allowing only two to use it max would severely limit the use unnecessarily. Especially in PvP where thiefs role is already lack luster.

Also, theres a few reasons I can think of on why this skill should not instantly teleport thief. First, its approaching Shadow steps territory. Only in this case the portal is significantly better as an escape. The second is a thief may not desire to follow the portal through. The theif can run over somewhere. Get something going like a decap. And return to his team to give them a teleport onto point while he goes elsewhere.

For 2. A recharging stun on cloak already sounds toxic as all hell to fight. Basilisk Venom is pretty weak for what it is. But having access to the ability to outright stun someone repeatedly on a class known for stacking stealth?

Ah. Ok. I didn't know about that problem in PvP. I wonder why they limited it so severely. They talk about consistency, but that kills the goat.

And my deal with the Lesser Basilisk Venom is less about the stealth. It's how frequently the thief would be able to Lesser Basilisk. Which... yeah the CC in other classes is significantly stronger... I really don't want to give ANET a reason to nerf thief... when they finally gave us a hug after years of beating us into the dirt at every patch.

The Core problem of Basilisk Venom was... it's just an all around shitty elite that doesn't flip a situation on its head, but its our only reliable way to break through guards. It was a 45s CD with a Cast time that felt like it took forever. And the only other good thing outside of it making a single attack unblockable, is the venom aura which made thief one of the stronger CC Bar Breakers in raids. And I have a bias, as I don't give a rats behind about raids.

Being able to get a stun every three seconds your in stealth is a bit unfair. It doesn't matter if you get revealed for three seconds. It'd just be every six seconds, and then suddenly Shadow Arts would have the SAME problem Trickery suffers. Where your hurting yourself if you don't have it. And suddenly all future ANET nerfs revolves around the idea that thief always has it, and never actually solve the problem thats causing thieves to always take it. And this recent patch is not enough for me to reverse my opinion about the balance team's insight into problems after years of patches that gave thief mains apoplexy. I know this is a Slippery Slope, but I don't believe I'm wrong about this. That's not saying I don't have hope for the future of thieves... but that hope is a small drop of oil in a sea of skepticism.

It'd be a different story if the Basilisk Venom had an internal cool down of around 15 or 20s or 30s in your recommendation. And the elite being replaced with something much better.

@"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:Ah. Ok. I didn't know about that problem in PvP. I wonder why they limited it so severely. They talk about consistency, but that kills the goat.

Yeah, is confuzzles me as well. I can see the reason for limiting it compared to WvW/PvE, but to virtually make it a Thief-only, selfish teleport seems quite extreme. I'm definitely not complaining about a "fixed Shadow Trap," but it did lose quite a bit of Shadow Trap's punch whenever the trap did actually work correctly.

And my deal with the Lesser Basilisk Venom is less about the stealth. It's how frequently the thief would be able to Lesser Basilisk....Being able to get a stun every three seconds your in stealth is a bit unfair. It doesn't matter if you get revealed for three seconds. It'd just be every six seconds...It'd be a different story if the Basilisk Venom had an internal cool down of around 15 or 20s or 30s in your recommendation. And the elite being replaced with something much better.

Yeah, it would definitely be useful for Thieves and annoying for non-Thieves. Especially if you use the old perma-Stealth CnD technique of striking right as leaving Stealth, avoiding being Revealed. An ICD may work, though I must confess that I really despise them... especially when there's no way to know how long the ICD has left.

And again, if a stun is too much, a short immobilize would also be effective, I think, even if annoying. But again, Sword/X and Pistol/X can already do this from range.

Mainly, I'd like to see reliable Stealth/Backstab bursts return. Immobilize would hold a target in place long enough to get a few good hits in, though it would still allow more counterplay than an outright stun, I suppose.

Maybe because I usually play a power-based Thief, I don't really care too much about even more Poison application, especially with the addition of Deadly Ambition. An immobilize venom could benefit all Thieves more than stacking more Poison on a target (if it increased Poison duration, it would be different). I must say, though, that I really like the idea of venoms/etc. being applied more through traits/weapon skills than through utility slots. Utility slots are far too precious to use them for niche/underwhelming things. Besides, it makes sense for venoms/poisons to be ubiquitous for rogue/ninja/assassin archetypes. There's no need to give up something in order to dip your weapon in poison before battle! :-D

Ps. Of course, I'm the guy who wants the Thief to gain Opening Strike capabilities similar to the Ranger. Having an automatic stun on the first strike when entering combat would be quite handy! :-P