Since when is it ok for a thief to perma stealth and then hit you for a 16.6k backstab alone? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Since when is it ok for a thief to perma stealth and then hit you for a 16.6k backstab alone?

Zelulose.8695Zelulose.8695 Member ✭✭
edited July 18, 2019 in Thief

So apparently Thief can perma stealth and 1 shot a thief with an amulet that has minor vitality or toughness stats in one hit with one skill. And yes they can survive running around waiting to hit that cancer from stealth. It is already bad enough that every class can kill a thief with one skill if we go Berserker amulet. There are limits to increasing damage ya know. Anyway, liked the thief updates was thinking about hoping back on but this reminded me why I hopped off. Reduce the damage so players can at least react ya know like make it take idk 2 seconds to 100-0 a player that might balance things because this is ridiculous for any mmorpg to even allow. Use any popular esport with balanced pvp like league. This is basically a second person shooter with only head shots and no aiming.

https://imgur.com/0VfAsJv

Comments

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Shadow arts gives -dmg reduction when revealed and 50% run speed in stealth....????.

    Anyway it's most likely assassins signet to blame here

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭

    Malicious Backstab, fun and entertaining.
    If you were looking for balanced game with no one-shot possibilities, you've picked wrong game Billy.

    @Zelulose.8695 said:
    Use any popular esport with balanced pvp like league.

    ArenaNet wet Esport dream, OMEGALUL

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zelulose.8695 said:
    Use any popular esport with balanced pvp like league.

    Using LoL as example against oneshots is kinda detrimental to your point. Everything that isn't a tanky character dies even faster past 10min than here.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭

    These builds are based upon swiss cheese and tend to waste the player performing them, if you have even a single trait that gives you invulnerability instead of death you would likely be able to turn the tables extremely easily.

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  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hmmm complaining that other classes can easily one shot a thief because how glassy they are followed by a complaint that thief can one shot another thief lmao so u want the squishier class to do less burst than the others? Man wut?

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭

    And then nerf the heal from soul eater, cause everybody knows reapers were just insanely over performing in terms of sustain and were screaming off the roof tops to tone it down.

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    Perma stealth serves no benefit in an sPvP game, where you win by capturing points.

    And backstab damage hasn't been changed since the game released.

    Welcome to Guild Wars 2.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 18, 2019

    I actually don't mind the damage.

    What I mind is how so much stealth gives such a large window to attack without a tell, making the anticipate game a 50/50 kitten shoot; and when you win the exchange by successfully avoiding being killed, they can easily disengage and jump back into stealth to try again.

    This should be designed so if you whiff 80% change you'll die. This is what it means to have risk and reward. Currently this is all the reward with little risk.

  • most people that are running the perma stealth backstab are all in 1 thing, dmg.... if you have a class with reveal itll make your life alot easier, if your roaming to begin with in wvw and not playing a ranger,rev,mes,holo, your really already crutching yourself for the play style yea i get it shouldn't be a thing, but it is and it can be hard to deal with but so is a condi mes, so is a holo, so is ranger yea i get that 16k 1 shot doesn't have much counterplay but they did add a mount that has a ability to do detect stealthed enemies, or just stay on mount to begin with they at least have to get you off the mount first BUT this is my personal opinion YES i do think that the 1shot is annoying but its not a thief problem its a Deadeye problem. Honestly i dont even see many of them anymore to begin with.

  • ZeftheWicked.3076ZeftheWicked.3076 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @James.1065 said:
    And then nerf the heal from soul eater, cause everybody knows reapers were just insanely over performing in terms of sustain and were screaming off the roof tops to tone it down.

    Pretty sure i saw an airplane over a-net hq dragging the sign "Soul Eater OP, necro immortal!"

  • I know guys. Every class right now does too much damage for a thief to handle, epecially in 5 vs 5 with all that aoe. The thief backstab is one example of many classes that are over-tuned in damage and healing.

    Still, the issue is that if I was playing a berserker amulet I would have died in one skill to any class. This is just not balanced. Even with vitality amulets which I had in this case, it is a FPS game with head shots that do not require aim. This is a valid point.

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zelulose.8695 said:
    I know guys. Every class right now does too much damage for a thief to handle, epecially in 5 vs 5 with all that aoe. The thief backstab is one example of many classes that are over-tuned in damage and healing.

    Still, the issue is that if I was playing a berserker amulet I would have died in one skill to any class. This is just not balanced. Even with vitality amulets which I had in this case, it is a FPS game with head shots that do not require aim. This is a valid point.

    If you ran an amulet with absolutely no defense, you will get 1-shot by a lot of different skills in this game. That's not a problem with the attack skills. That's a problem with you running absolutely zero defense.

  • @Dahkeus.8243 said:

    @Zelulose.8695 said:
    I know guys. Every class right now does too much damage for a thief to handle, epecially in 5 vs 5 with all that aoe. The thief backstab is one example of many classes that are over-tuned in damage and healing.

    Still, the issue is that if I was playing a berserker amulet I would have died in one skill to any class. This is just not balanced. Even with vitality amulets which I had in this case, it is a FPS game with head shots that do not require aim. This is a valid point.

    If you ran an amulet with absolutely no defense, you will get 1-shot by a lot of different skills in this game. That's not a problem with the attack skills. That's a problem with you running absolutely zero defense.

    What about the part where I said I had vitality in my amulet? Not even a bit of toughness in my amulet will stop this. Thief has to run tank amulets or be 1 shot right now. They are not tanks though, why should they have to run tank amulets or die in less than the human .2 second average reaction time to skills that don't even require aim?

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zelulose.8695 said:

    @Dahkeus.8243 said:

    @Zelulose.8695 said:
    I know guys. Every class right now does too much damage for a thief to handle, epecially in 5 vs 5 with all that aoe. The thief backstab is one example of many classes that are over-tuned in damage and healing.

    Still, the issue is that if I was playing a berserker amulet I would have died in one skill to any class. This is just not balanced. Even with vitality amulets which I had in this case, it is a FPS game with head shots that do not require aim. This is a valid point.

    If you ran an amulet with absolutely no defense, you will get 1-shot by a lot of different skills in this game. That's not a problem with the attack skills. That's a problem with you running absolutely zero defense.

    What about the part where I said I had vitality in my amulet? Not even a bit of toughness in my amulet will stop this. Thief has to run tank amulets or be 1 shot right now. They are not tanks though, why should they have to run tank amulets or die in less than the human .2 second average reaction time to skills that don't even require aim?

    Not really too inclined to take you seriously when you start your arguments with a build running Berserker amulet since it's pretty much never run in any legitimate build, but even if you're running a Marauder amulet, then you're running a very glassy build and will at times get kitten 1-shot. Why is that? Because you can also 1-shot other glassy builds running the same amulet if they're not paying attention and playing smart.

    I mean, just use your head for a second. There's a reason that the only meta builds running Marauder amulets are ones that have ample active defense and/or rely on a support class teammate to stay on their feet.

  • Zelulose.8695Zelulose.8695 Member ✭✭
    edited July 18, 2019

    @Dahkeus.8243 said:

    @Zelulose.8695 said:

    @Dahkeus.8243 said:

    @Zelulose.8695 said:
    I know guys. Every class right now does too much damage for a thief to handle, epecially in 5 vs 5 with all that aoe. The thief backstab is one example of many classes that are over-tuned in damage and healing.

    Still, the issue is that if I was playing a berserker amulet I would have died in one skill to any class. This is just not balanced. Even with vitality amulets which I had in this case, it is a FPS game with head shots that do not require aim. This is a valid point.

    If you ran an amulet with absolutely no defense, you will get 1-shot by a lot of different skills in this game. That's not a problem with the attack skills. That's a problem with you running absolutely zero defense.

    What about the part where I said I had vitality in my amulet? Not even a bit of toughness in my amulet will stop this. Thief has to run tank amulets or be 1 shot right now. They are not tanks though, why should they have to run tank amulets or die in less than the human .2 second average reaction time to skills that don't even require aim?

    Not really too inclined to take you seriously when you start your arguments with a build running Berserker amulet since it's pretty much never run in any legitimate build, but even if you're running a Marauder amulet, then you're running a very glassy build and will at times get kitten 1-shot. Why is that? Because you can also 1-shot other glassy builds running the same amulet if they're not paying attention and playing smart.

    I mean, just use your head for a second. There's a reason that the only meta builds running Marauder amulets are ones that have ample active defense and/or rely on a support class teammate to stay on their feet.

    You just proved my point. The damage is way to high if all the amulets require thief to 2 vs 1 any non thief vs thief situation. where they one shot each other. Do you know how many amulets thief cannot use right now based on this reasoning? All the amulets are not viable for a thief to hold his own except for 900 toughness and 900 vitality amulets. That is a largely limited selection for a thief that originally used to run berserk amulet when the game came out and still have over 15k hp with a vitality trait-line. Also stop talking about berserker amulet as if I am fixated on it. I got one shot with a Marauder amulet. I simply could not even see the attack coming so I didn't have any defenses up. My traits didn't save me because I died in one hit.

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zelulose.8695 said:

    @Dahkeus.8243 said:

    @Zelulose.8695 said:

    @Dahkeus.8243 said:

    @Zelulose.8695 said:
    I know guys. Every class right now does too much damage for a thief to handle, epecially in 5 vs 5 with all that aoe. The thief backstab is one example of many classes that are over-tuned in damage and healing.

    Still, the issue is that if I was playing a berserker amulet I would have died in one skill to any class. This is just not balanced. Even with vitality amulets which I had in this case, it is a FPS game with head shots that do not require aim. This is a valid point.

    If you ran an amulet with absolutely no defense, you will get 1-shot by a lot of different skills in this game. That's not a problem with the attack skills. That's a problem with you running absolutely zero defense.

    What about the part where I said I had vitality in my amulet? Not even a bit of toughness in my amulet will stop this. Thief has to run tank amulets or be 1 shot right now. They are not tanks though, why should they have to run tank amulets or die in less than the human .2 second average reaction time to skills that don't even require aim?

    Not really too inclined to take you seriously when you start your arguments with a build running Berserker amulet since it's pretty much never run in any legitimate build, but even if you're running a Marauder amulet, then you're running a very glassy build and will at times get kitten 1-shot. Why is that? Because you can also 1-shot other glassy builds running the same amulet if they're not paying attention and playing smart.

    I mean, just use your head for a second. There's a reason that the only meta builds running Marauder amulets are ones that have ample active defense and/or rely on a support class teammate to stay on their feet.

    You just proved my point. The damage is way to high if all the amulets require thief to 2 vs 1 any non thief vs thief situation. where they one shot each other. Do you know how many amulets thief cannot use right now based on this reasoning? All the amulets are not viable for a thief to hold his own except for 900 toughness and 900 vitality amulets. That is a largely limited selection for a thief that originally used to run berserk amulet when the game came out and still have over 15k hp with a vitality trait-line. Also stop talking about berserker amulet as if I am fixated on it. I got one shot with a Marauder amulet. I simply could not even see the attack coming so I didn't have any defenses up. My traits didn't save me because I died in one hit.

    No, nothing here has proved your point. Glass cannon builds blow up other glass cannon builds. That's why they are glass cannons. That's not a problem with the builds themselves.

    I've been playing GW2 since launch, primarily on thief, often during times when skills did more damage than they do now. There are always ways to know when damage is coming, even from a stealthed opponent.

    If you don't have the reflexes to handle big damage bursts, you need to play a different build/class. If you can't read the field to know when you're likely to be attacked, that's also on you. It's not a fault of the game.

  • Arekai.5698Arekai.5698 Member ✭✭

    @sinsrock.1702 said:
    most people that are running the perma stealth backstab are all in 1 thing, dmg.... if you have a class with reveal itll make your life alot easier

    Ill never understand ppl that forget about elite removing revealed.
    Theres nothing you can do against perma stealth builds.
    stun -> shadowstep
    reveal -> remove reveal
    counter burst -> gets dodged into stealth

    A proper DE with patience will always win, unless the target is too tanky, then it's simply a stalemate.

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 18, 2019

    Since that thief is useless and will do nothing in pvp. He will also implode if caught.

    Now try that on a soulbeast or holo who can burst you for 16k or higher maybe not in 0.1 seconds, but 1.5s, they also can hold their own outnumbered (unlike thief) and are tanky as hell.

    People like you are why this game's balance is so garbage these days.

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thieves complaining about thieves.

    Oh boy.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 18, 2019

    I've mostly been in wvw for last few yrs and DE can be annoying but man in conquest every single one I've seen since I've recently started trying out pvp is useless. I dont ever comment in chat and would never belittle another player through chat but a few times my teammates would comment another useless DE at end of match screen lmao. They literally die in seconds by thiefs s/d once caught and their really not that hard to catch. Other than trying to pew pew u from range while ur engaged with one of their ally's they seem close to useless.

  • Well I understand. I will just wait until next patch like I did for this year. I would love to support anet through their cash shop and my own game-play and recommendations. I cannot recommend this game to my friends in its current state and a pvp player going to pve is boring because everything is too easy once you realize how gimpy some builds are.

    If the devs actually look at the games goals when they started selling this game to us the would realized that many of us have been a victom of false advertising that cost us money. Like no holy trinity was their sales pitch in the past. Then they gave us holy trinity in the form of "supports." They also Changed the trait system the sold us on to one with less customization. They changed all our skills and added elite specs to invalidate everything we payed for. It is like they are forcing a skill dependent game to become a time dependent game when they promised this game would be more challenging and advanced than Gw1.

    Now they give us one one shotters and a meta that makes the game feel repetitive. Without build variety, I feel cheated of my money. Even cheated when I bought the expansion to stay updated for esports that never happened. Right now this game is worse than the real world. Games were supposed to take us from the real world and give us a chance to find a niche not give us the same boring stuff that made the real world suck like nerfing off builds and giving players universal builds. There is a reason players were given many skills and a limited skill bar in the beginning. Now there is only one meta and no need for a limited skill bar. Ok rant done. See y'all next patch hope they nerf damage or buff hp.

  • Dagger Boops have been around in various shapes and forms since the launch of the game, and they will very likely continue to stay around for a very long time.

    While they're not all that fair to fight against, they're also highly predictable once you know what to expect, and heavily unviable if you're fighting in a group setting. Familiarize yourself with the builds, and the skills they use, to more easily identify when/where they might be stacking stealth, or when they might attempt to initiate. Make yourself look taste-y, to bait them in, make them waste burst, and overall punish them. If they don't leave stealth, they're essentially being useless if they're in a match, and if they can't kill you, they're not helping themselves or their team much either.

    Never be afraid to ask them what they're running either, if they're willing to tell you, that's how you learn. Knowledge is power!

    The biggest strength of these builds are burst damage, surprise, demoralization and stupidity. Get the right combination of those, and you end up with salty rage-quits, or folk standing idle screaming in map chat, while you pluck away their HP bar like a ripe fruit. And if you end up with a target that doesn't want to learn, and does the same thing over, and over, and over again expecting something to change? They get torn to shreds, and then it's a matter of balance.

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 19, 2019

    @Zelulose.8695 said:

    @Dahkeus.8243 said:

    @Zelulose.8695 said:

    @Dahkeus.8243 said:

    @Zelulose.8695 said:
    I know guys. Every class right now does too much damage for a thief to handle, epecially in 5 vs 5 with all that aoe. The thief backstab is one example of many classes that are over-tuned in damage and healing.

    Still, the issue is that if I was playing a berserker amulet I would have died in one skill to any class. This is just not balanced. Even with vitality amulets which I had in this case, it is a FPS game with head shots that do not require aim. This is a valid point.

    If you ran an amulet with absolutely no defense, you will get 1-shot by a lot of different skills in this game. That's not a problem with the attack skills. That's a problem with you running absolutely zero defense.

    What about the part where I said I had vitality in my amulet? Not even a bit of toughness in my amulet will stop this. Thief has to run tank amulets or be 1 shot right now. They are not tanks though, why should they have to run tank amulets or die in less than the human .2 second average reaction time to skills that don't even require aim?

    Not really too inclined to take you seriously when you start your arguments with a build running Berserker amulet since it's pretty much never run in any legitimate build, but even if you're running a Marauder amulet, then you're running a very glassy build and will at times get kitten 1-shot. Why is that? Because you can also 1-shot other glassy builds running the same amulet if they're not paying attention and playing smart.

    I mean, just use your head for a second. There's a reason that the only meta builds running Marauder amulets are ones that have ample active defense and/or rely on a support class teammate to stay on their feet.

    You just proved my point. The damage is way to high if all the amulets require thief to 2 vs 1 any non thief vs thief situation. where they one shot each other. Do you know how many amulets thief cannot use right now based on this reasoning? All the amulets are not viable for a thief to hold his own except for 900 toughness and 900 vitality amulets. That is a largely limited selection for a thief that originally used to run berserk amulet when the game came out and still have over 15k hp with a vitality trait-line. Also stop talking about berserker amulet as if I am fixated on it. I got one shot with a Marauder amulet. I simply could not even see the attack coming so I didn't have any defenses up. My traits didn't save me because I died in one hit.

    Assume for the sake of arguement you are correct and the damag efrom a GLASS Cannon build , which by design is intended to output as much damage as possible, is too high and they should not be able to dish out one shots against other glass cannons.

    Thief Glass cannon has around 12k health so let us tweak down damage against that glass cannon so he can only do 10 in that single attack. No more complaints..right?

    Now take that thief glass cannon and put him up against a warrior with armor of 3k and 26k health. How do you think he would fare if the maximum damage he can now put out , from a backstab is now 6 k against the guy with more armor/toughness and 26k health? Remember that the guy with the 26k health and 3k armor is facing a guy with 2100 armor and 12k health. He gets a 6k hit in on that thief and thief just lost half his health and in exchange he will lose at most 1/4 health against that same thief. Balanced right?

    Why would you even play glass cannon?

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭

    How dare a squishy assassin burst down a glass dps. Where else in gaming can you find such bad design?

    oh, wait...

  • @Zelulose.8695 said:
    I know guys. Every class right now does too much damage for a thief to handle, epecially in 5 vs 5 with all that aoe. The thief backstab is one example of many classes that are over-tuned in damage and healing.

    Still, the issue is that if I was playing a berserker amulet I would have died in one skill to any class. This is just not balanced. Even with vitality amulets which I had in this case, it is a FPS game with head shots that do not require aim. This is a valid point.

    the title of your post is "Since when is it ok for a thief to perma stealth and then hit you for a 16.6k backstab alone?"

    Not the game has entered a power crept state ABSOLUTELY NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO one would disagree with you there, its the fact you targeted the class whos been the underdog now from literally a few years of nerfs, if your whole point was to argue that the game is power crept its different, i could agree, but i think thief is still way under tuned compared to for example a mes,

    Hear me out some people wil be like OHHHH BUT THIEF COUNTERS MES

    yea but any yahoo with NO understanding of the build can play mes and STILL have a chance to beat a thief who actually knows what there doing, . i have a friend who beat one of my best classes by just pushing buttons lol mesmer has access to Torment, meaning you take MORE dmg if you walk has access to Confusion LITERALLY MEANING YOU CANT EVEN AUTO ATTACK, bleeding, burning, Poison MEANING YOUR HEALS SUCK, im just saying in general, thief doesnt have a whole lot compared to most other classes in the game, yea 16k backstabs hurt but so does mesmers ability to literally not let you play the game.

  • Straegen.2938Straegen.2938 Member ✭✭✭

    Countered by dozens of builds that can squat on a node laughing at backstab thieves.

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Backstab's damage isn't actually even good by most classes' standards today, though.

    The amount of investment to pull off these high damage numbers is almost never worthwhile, be it from sacrificing all point control game-wide by playing melee DE, or by running pretty horrible utilities that gut your skirmish and +1 potential.

    Chained stealth is more or less the problem here more than anything. The damage is super easy to prevent on D/D where the window is well-defined.

    Backstab builds like D/D signets have a really low barrier of entry at the low skill levels but get exponentially more difficult to play the better your opponents are, because you're basically playing the game without utility skills, with predictable burst, and underperforming weapons otherwise.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.
    Quit/Inactive. No, you can't have my stuff.

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