P1(with no duo) vs L1(duo)

Hi people just want to report another episode of awesome matchmaking :DWe all know matchmaking is at its best point but man I didn't think we could reach this.After waiting minutes to get a ranked match, I suddenly find myself fighting a team composed with a duo of legendary 1 players(one of which is top2 in leaderboard), vs my team probably g3-p1 (max p2) with no duo.Explain me please how in the right mind/algorithm is this kitten fair? At least give my team double duo if we face one that high rated. This makes 0 sense.Just a heads up Anet this one of the many reasons, along with class balance, why people are quitting.

It's because the legendary, and even P3 population together make up waylessthanawholenumber% of the total population. When you allow these players to queue together, the odds of them actually being put into a match with other Legendaries/P3s is very very low, even lower would be matching them against a similarly-ranked DuoQ.

With little to no Legends/P3s to fill the other 8 slots in the match, and with a single DuoQ being among the very-highest rated players in the game, way way lower ranks from P1 all the way Silver3 are put in to compensate for the huge rank disparity the Legendary DuoQ creates.

If the matchmaker didn't do this, those legends would be waiting in queue for a very long time.

These same reasons are why it was restricted to begin with back in Season 9. Absolutely nothing changed about it when they brought it back in Season 13, and as the population declines, the worse the issue gets. Arenanet has already made their stance rather clear on it though, and DuoQ is unfortunately here to stay and abuse.

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:It's because the legendary, and even P3 population together make up waylessthanawholenumber% of the total population. When you allow these players to queue together, the odds of them actually being put into a match with other Legendaries/P3s is very very low, even lower would be matching them against a similarly-ranked DuoQ.

With little to no Legends/P3s to fill the other 8 slots in the match, and with a single DuoQ being among the very-highest rated players in the game, way way lower ranks from P1 all the way Silver3 are put in to compensate for the huge rank disparity the Legendary DuoQ creates.

If the matchmaker didn't do this, those legends would be waiting in queue for a very long time.

These same reasons are why it was restricted to begin with back in Season 9. Absolutely nothing changed about it when they brought it back in Season 13, and as the population declines, the worse the issue gets. Arenanet has already made their stance rather clear on it though, and DuoQ is unfortunately here to stay and abuse.

What makes it worse is that those players actually go out of their way to not que against other players in those divisions, for several reasons. So not only do they represent .5% of the community population as huge outliers within the match making, but they also actively avoid each other while queueing.

Wish they wouldn't do that, but I guess I can't blame them when it's so easy to do.

It should be a trade-off. If they want to duoQ, knowing that they won't get a balanced match very soon, they should wait 30 or 40 minutes in queue for one good match. There's no reason to ruin the game for 8 other people just so these two players don't wait very long in queue.

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:What makes it worse is that those players actually go out of their way to not que against other players in those divisions, for several reasons. So not only do they represent .5% of the community population as huge outliers within the match making, but they also actively avoid each other while queueing.

Wish they wouldn't do that, but I guess I can't blame them when it's so easy to do.

Mhm, very true.

Usually ranked gamemodes exist to encourage competition and being matched with players more akin to your skill level, but GW2 PvP is clearly the exception.

In almost every game, a lot of good players do not want to fight other good players. In that sense, GW2 PvP is not the exception, but the epitome. People won't stop because we want them to, they'll only stop when they aren't allowed to do it anymore.

There's a video I found that brushes over this issue as well as several others ranked Gw2 pvp while applying to a different game that I think you might enjoy. It's about a different game, but when you watch and apply the concepts to SPvP, you start to realize just how fundamentally broken Ranked SPvP is, and the need for change and restructuring in the future.

I'd love to have some content more relevant to Gw2 to show, but; nobody's really talked about this.

@Multicolorhipster.9751 That was a good watch. I agree with what was being discussed in this video and it does apply to conquest. And you're right, there are so many things fundamentally broken beyond repair with 5v5 conquest ranked match making, that it isn't even worth trying to explain. It's not something that can be well explained in a nutshell or even a well written post. You'd have to be ready to sit down and write a fucking thesis on the subject to even begin to nail down the points required to well explain to someone what is wrong and why it didn't work. I actually started trying to write this out in this thread, and then realized I was looking at about a 6 hour write, so I just stopped myself before I started.

Real problem here is to authorize top 100/250 players to duo q. 3 points conquest games on small maps are way too easy to carry if you bring 2 very good players with very good understanding of all classes : just bring either one far destroyer and a good teamfighter/close holder or double burst char or classical fb/scourge and you can basically carry 2 points.

I'm plat 3 eu player and the difference between games with duo and only solo players is really HUGE. When there is only solo q players, even with legendary players, games are a lot more balanced and enjoyable to play. Why do you think 90% of legendary players are duoqueuing? It's not just a "my friend is so cool, I really like chilling with him", it's just the most reliable way to "abuse" gw2 matchmaking and get more wins.

P.S: I'm not jealous or smthing, that's just a fact : if you want to access legendary in 3 nodes conquest AND small maps AND low population game mode, your very best bet will be to find a very good player to duo q with.

I am a gold player and get often matched with mat winners and/or player with top 25 or so tiltles. This is garbage like the whole game mode meanwhile!

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:It's because the legendary, and even P3 population together make up waylessthanawholenumber% of the total population. When you allow these players to queue together, the odds of them actually being put into a match with other Legendaries/P3s is very very low, even lower would be matching them against a similarly-ranked DuoQ.

With little to no Legends/P3s to fill the other 8 slots in the match, and with a single DuoQ being among the very-highest rated players in the game, way way lower ranks from P1 all the way Silver3 are put in to compensate for the huge rank disparity the Legendary DuoQ creates.

If the matchmaker didn't do this, those legends would be waiting in queue for a very long time.

These same reasons are why it was restricted to begin with back in Season 9. Absolutely nothing changed about it when they brought it back in Season 13, and as the population declines, the worse the issue gets. Arenanet has already made their stance rather clear on it though, and DuoQ is unfortunately here to stay and abuse.

This right here is the main problem i have. They actively go out of there way to avoid playing against each other.....if that's the case then anyone over 1700 should not be able to duo que at all.....If they avoid playing each other at all cost then there rating will only ever go up and there will not be a proper platue for then to fight over. This ruins the idea of a ranked ladder doesn't it?

Funny thing is they will say (as they did before) that they also want good games, but god forbidden they will split their Duo and face each other in more balanced matches.

I am almost p3 with 88 games (1690) and I exclusively solo queue, which is quite rare, most ppl are duos. But I accepted it and it used to happen to me a lot of times when I have been in lower ranks, playing against rank 1 duoing with a partner in the top 10.But I try to see such games as a reason for motivation to give my best in order to win or to lose without regrets AND I try to learn from good players: where did they stand, any new no-port-spots, when do they interact with which skills, how do they rotate etc.My pvp knowledge results from these observation (and also from twitch streams ofc :D)We can choose to be angry about those kind of situations, but since duo-queue is allowed, it is what it is and anet doesn‘t wanna change anything, they just say again and again „it‘‘s what the community wanted“ although the active community has changed a lot. That‘s why I try to stay positive and to make the best of every game, even the ones that might very likely result in a loss. I play pvp for fun and in order to play the gw2 pvp I have to accept that some games every now and then are not fair at all.

@Serenity.6304 said:I am almost p3 with 88 games (1690) and I exclusively solo queue, which is quite rare, most ppl are duos. But I accepted it and it used to happen to me a lot of times when I have been in lower ranks, playing against rank 1 duoing with a partner in the top 10.But I try to see such games as a reason for motivation to give my best in order to win or to lose without regrets AND I try to learn from good players: where did they stand, any new no-port-spots, when do they interact with which skills, how do they rotate etc.My pvp knowledge results from these observation (and also from twitch streams ofc :D)We can choose to be angry about those kind of situations, but since duo-queue is allowed, it is what it is and anet doesn‘t wanna change anything, they just say again and again „it‘‘s what the community wanted“ although the active community has changed a lot. That‘s why I try to stay positive and to make the best of every game, even the ones that might very likely result in a loss. I play pvp for fun and in order to play the gw2 pvp I have to accept that some games every now and then are not fair at all.

I try to play my best on each game and learn from better players than me always. But when half of your team gets farmed by that duo and you're the only one actually trying to put up a fight...well what do i have to say?what an awesome experience?I'm not saying i'm a pro player, but in that match I was for sure the one more skilled of team, but what am I supposed to do? Because let's be honest once that duo is around they will choose the weakest targets of my team farm them for whole match, and i'm supposed to do what? Because in that match with that duo farming 2 of my team mates on close, we had to split and I mostly ended up fighting 1 vs2 or 1vs1, despite my success on holding a node on those fights and trying to team fight, we lost.How can I carry that situation? Because I really don't know. Might be that I'm not skilled enough. I play to win and have fun, but when it's a losing match and you know it since few minutes in, how do you have fun losing like that? I'm fine with losing if it's balanced and fun match. It clearly wasn't this case, so i just lost cauz matchmaking is trash

@NecroSummonsMors.7816 said:I'm not saying i'm a pro player, but in that match I was for sure the one more skilled of team, but what am I supposed to do? Because let's be honest once that duo is around they will choose the weakest targets of my team farm them for whole match, and i'm supposed to do what? Because in that match with that duo farming 2 of my team mates on close, we had to split and I mostly ended up fighting 1 vs2 or 1vs1, despite my success on holding a node on those fights and trying to team fight, we lost.

One thing a lot of top DuoQers do, and what this sounds like, is the abuse of class switching.

The matchmaker makes an attempt to mirror team compositions so games are a little more balanced in theory, but this also gets abused in a DuoQ setting. Emphasis on attempt though, because it thankfully isn't perfect.

One strat I see all is the time is 2 high-level DuoQ players queing together as double necro, and switching to one of the side-noders that can absolutely wreck necro before the game actually starts. This pretty much guarantees at least one necro to the other team, and since SoloQ is pretty unpredictable with supports and coordination, that necro is at a pretty big disadvantage.

They also try this with ele sometimes as people tend to think ele is generally weaker than the other side-noders, which makes preying on your team's weaker side-noders that much easier.

To avoid this you can do 2 things that come to mind:1) Queue-dodge. Wait ~5 minutes after getting wiped by a high-level DuoQ to avoid getting into another match with them. A lot of the people responsible for this also stream on Twitch, and if you find their livestream; you can reliably avoid them that way.2) Do the same thing. Analyze what classes the DuoQ switches to, to minimize the chance of being on the receiving end of a class-swap juke. If you're an actual necro player, maybe queue as a side-noder and swap to necro before the match starts, if you notice them doing it often.

It's really broken, but that's what DuoQ has done to ranked SPvP. Arenanet could remove class-switching and accomplish the same thing, but just as they've rationalized DuoQ, they have also rationalized class-switching.