2019.07 Balance Wishlist (Rev 08/06) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

2019.07 Balance Wishlist (Rev 08/06)

TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭
edited August 7, 2019 in Warrior

Traits

Strength
Issue Suggestion
Reckless Dodge: For a Minor adept trait, this is disproportionately overpowered in comparison to their traits in the same tier. Unblockable, grants might, and capable of hitting over 8K damage by glass builds. Make blockable, reduce damage.
Brave Stride: Design of this trait only benefits the warrior once when entering combat and provides no benefit in sustained combat state. Goes against the design philosophy of the warrior remaining in combat and gaining adrenaline. Rework this. Gain 5 strikes of adrenaline on your first strike entering combat. Landing burst attacks grant 1 stack of 4 second stability. (8s ICD)
Peak Performance: Death from above has no target cap, possible oversight or bug. Implement a 5 player target cap on death from above.
Body Blow: Competes directly in line with Forceful greatsword, which has benefits even on warriors running without greatsword / spear. Condi damage based trait in a power based traitline, zero use case scenarios to take this over great fortitude or forceful greatsword, even on condi builds. Rework this. Critical hits grant 1 second of might and grant bonus adrenaline.
Forceful Greatsword: Disproportionately stronger compared to it's cousin traits, Blademaster and Heat the Soul. (Basically an increase in trait with the added benefit of gaining might) Remove might gain (Move to Body Blow)
Merciless Hammer: A niche trait that mainly benefits hammer (for those that don't use hammer, the adrenaline is not worth taking. Control windows are far too short to take any benefit of the damage increase on controlled foes), competes with berserker's power and might makes right which are superior choices to take, yet not in any means overpowered. Rework this. Hammer skills gain reduced recharge. Backbreaker becomes Merciless Hammer. (Basically the same skill, except it's an 180 radius aoe blast finisher that removes barrier off foes). Inflict 5 stacks of vulnerability when you disable, additional 10 stacks on interrupts.
Arms
Issue Suggestion
Wounding Precision: Unusual combination and lazy by design. Precision benefits critical strikes, which is power based. This expect players to have high precision before condi based stats to maximize benefit, but would typically be the other way around. (max condi damage, precision would be an afterthought) Rework this. Gain 180 expertise for 5 seconds when landing a burst attack.
Signet Mastery: Inaccurate tooltip, grants might Update tooltip to reflect the might gained.
Opportunist: Warrior only have 5 skills in their entire arsenal that inflict immobilize. 1 of which is from an aquatic weapon, another 1 from a utility, and another from a burst attack- meaning only 2 weapons skills inflict immobilize For a trait that benefits when you inflict immobilize, this is extremely lacking. Need to turn it around and have it inflict immobilize under special conditions. Would be great if was in tactics with leg specialist. Rework this. Swap with Burning Arrows in Tactics. Critical strikes against foes under 25% health will immobilize them for 1 second (15s cd). Gain 5s fury when striking foes under 25%. (15s cd)
Unsuspecting Foe: Window of opportunity is too low to make use of this trait as is. CC effects usually last under 3 seconds at a time, stun breaks and stability abundance makes this useless. Adding more opportunities may make this worth taking. Rework this. Increase critical chance against foes when striking from the side, from behind, or when disabled. Reduce crit chance from +50% to +20%.
Furious: Similar issue with Wounding precision and the arms trait line in general, how it mixes critical hits with condition damage. The grandmaster traits all seem to lack any traits to offer to pure condi builds without requiring precision. Rework this. Burst attacks inflict multiple conditions based on boons on you and as long as you have fury. (based on boon-condition conversion table; e.g. if you have aegis, your burst will also inflict burning). (maximum 6 conditions inflicted per foe per burst, 8s icd)
Dual Wielding: Too much of a niche and the benefit is minimal even when wielding dual weapons. The speed increase conflicts with the speed cap that comes with quickness. Scrap this, replace with Concussive Blows. Critical strikes against a foe with 25 stacks of vulnerability will inflict a concussion. [Concussion: 1/4 second daze. If target was interrupted, stuns for 1/2 second instead. inflicts 4s weakness and 2 stacks of 6s confusion, and deals some damage. Loses all stacks of vulnerability, 8 second icd]
Defense
Issue Suggestion
Thick Skin: Design of this trait is ill-suited for warrior. Better to base it off range constraints instead of health. Reduce damage from foes by 10% within range threshold (300 range)
Defy Pain: Despite it's history of nerfs it remains a prime choice in the defense trait line, but mostly because of the fact it competes with the likes of sundering mace and armored attack. It's likely in the best interest of the balance of this game to just move it to swap it with Rousing Resilience in Major Grandmaster, so the Major Grandmaster traits offer the choice between physical damage mitigation (defy pain), condition damage mitigation (Cleansing Ire), or control mitigation (Last Stand). Needs an active component to reduce passive traits. Swap places with Rousing Resilience in Major Grandmaster. Revert PvP splits. Add an activation requirement: Must land a burst attack to activate trait for 60 seconds
Sundering Mace: Too much of a niche and current benefit is minimal. Rework this. Change it so stun/daze/knockdown effects last longer based on +0.5% per vulnerability stack regardless of weapon wielded. (25 stacks of vulnerability = 12.5% longer). Effect is doubled when wielding a mace (25 stacks of vulnerability = 25% longer). Mace skills have reduced recharge.
Last Stand: Tooltip is inaccurate. Trait will proc when warrior has stability and isn't disabled. Also a passive trait that needs active components. Either update tooltip so it clarifies so this will proc when struck by an attack with a disable effect or account for when the warriors have stability. Add in a activation requirement: Must break a stun in order to activate trait for 60 seconds. Revert PvP splits.
Cleansing Ire: Fell out of favor due to rampant condi re-application. In need of a minor tune up. Conflicts with spellbreaker's "Revenge Counter", removes condition before they're transferred. Update this so you remove 3 conditions regardless of amount of adrenaline spent. Rework it so transfer effects occur before the conditions are removed. Removes Blind before burst.
Rousing Resilience: See notes on Defy pain. Swap with Defy pain in Major Master.
Tactics
Issue Suggestion
Leg Specialist: Almost the same issue as opportunist, but also partly empowered is superior and there's hardly any use case scenarios for this. Rework this. Cripples and immobilizes you apply have longer duration. Inflict cripple when you immobilize a foe. (No ICD)
Quick Breathing: Benefits only warhorn, continue reworking weapon only traits to have a wider benefit. Make warhorn target 10 allies baseline. Gain vitality, gain bonus vitality when wielding a warhorn. Reduce cooldown on warhorn skills.
Shrug it Off: Weak due to it's nerf of being a passive trait, redundant shout trait, and only removes one condition on a high cooldown. Scrap this trait. Replace it with a new trait: Removing conditions replaces the condition with regeneration. Regeneration you grant also gives 150 bonus vitality and toughness.
Burning Arrows: Similar issue with Sundering mace, too much of a niche. This is often sought by condi builds but it's out of place in tactics.. Rework this. Make the burning baseline. Swap places with the new "opportunist" trait in Arms. Increase precision. Double effects when wielding a longbow. reduce cooldown on longbow.
Powerful Synergy: This is great and all, but I can't help but wonder why all combo finishers inflict only condis and offer no real benefit to power builds. Allow combo finishers to inflict power damage as well in addition to its current effects. (Might be a deeper issue at hand with combo finishers in general). In addition to it's current effects, grant the combo imitator regeneration and endurance.
Phalanx Strength: Fell out of favor with the nerf and made it no longer a viable option. In addition to it's current effects, increase personal might cap from 25 to 30.
Discipline
Issue Suggestion
Crack Shot: See notes on rifle rework. Weapon is ineffective by design and needs more than this trait to make it workable. Also suffers from the nice issue with Sundering Mace and Burning Arrows. Rework this. Deal 0.5% more damage per stack of vulnerability on foes. Effect doubles when wielding harpoon gun or rifle.
Warrior's Sprint: Trait offers plenty of utility by itself, the damage increase is power creep. Remove the damage increase. Replace it with: Removing immobilize grants 3s of swiftness.
Vengeful Return: Too much of a niche with limited benefit. Requires you to actually go into downed state to make this beneficial and must wait for vengeance to become available. Scrap this and rework it. When your health falls below 50%, gain 10 strikes adrenaline and recharge your burst attack. Outgoing power/condition damage is increased by 20% for 10 seconds when your health is low (60s cd).
Fast Hands: This has long been an issue of controversy for warriors. Being the profession with the least amount of skills available at a given time, a large percentage of skills are locked behind the weapon swap cooldown. This is the reason why warriors are so dependent on this trait. Not totally in favor of making weapon swapping 5 seconds, but willing to compromise. Make warrior baseline weapon swapping reduced down to 8 seconds. Keep trait at 5 seconds.
Axe Mastery: Have an issue with how the 3 major grandmaster traits in discipline all compete for power damage. Axes have decent combo-chains, so adrenaline is hardly an issue. Rework this. Burst attacks deal 10% more damage regardless of weapon wielded. Gain 200 ferocity while wielding axes, reduce axe skill cooldown.
Heightened Focus: Have an issue with how the 3 major grandmaster traits in discipline all compete for power damage. Heightened focus is the only option that gives condi builds some place, yet it's slightly weaker than burst mastery. Also restore a portion of Adrenaline spent in addition to current effects.
Burst Mastery: Have an issue with how the 3 major grandmaster traits in discipline all compete for power damage. Heightened focus is the only option that gives condi builds some place, yet it's slightly weaker than burst mastery. Scrap this trait. Move the adrenaline recovery to heightened focus, move the burst damage increase to axe mastery. Create a new trait in it's place that specifically benefits condition builds. Swapping weapons will knock back foes within a 130 range PBAOE radius (8s icd). If this attack hits, your next 5 attacks will inflict 2 stacks of 8 second poison.
Berserker
Issue Suggestion
Smash Brawler: My issue with this is that it's pve minded only and is not a viable option for PvP and WvW due to the uncontrollable nature of berserk and when it's needed most. In addition to current effect, Rage skills are now able to reduce the cooldown of berserk mode outside berserk mode.
Last Blaze: Panders to condi builds, but requires usage of rage skills. Only condi rage skill available is shattering blow. Berserker being a condi oriented spec should have an option for their primal bursts inflict more condi as a trait. No such option exists, this would address that issue. In addition to its current effects, primal burst attacks inflict burning. Can only occur once per interval per target for multi hit burst skills.
Savage Instinct: Seeing how long berserk mode is now, this trait is only useful when you enter berserk mode. Incredibly useless trait due to it's' limited use scenario. Warriors enter berserk mode to deal damage and this punishes warriors from entering berserk mode unless it's used defensively. Granting primal bursts stun breaks will provide more situations to use this trait. Damage reduction in berserk kind of goes against berserk design philosophy. Remove the damage reduction. Add stun breaks to primal bursts.
Dead or Alive: Benefit scenario of the fatal damage healing is too limited and specific. Competes yet is outperformed by bloodreaction and heat the soul. Scrap everything, replace it with: landing primal bursts grant barrier.
King of Fires: Really have no idea why they added power damage to this. Remove the power damage.
Eternal Champion: Bloody roar and king of fires outright outperform this. Requires you to be controlled in order for this to take effect, even then the benefit is limited. Rework this. Prevent berserkers from gaining stability and protection while in berserk mode. While in berserk, your attacks are uninterruptible and any incoming stability or protection you gain is immediately converted to vigor, fury, retaliation, regeneration, and resistance. Evade for half a second when you break stuns. Getting interrupted outside of berserk mode will grant adrenaline.
Spellbreaker
Issue Suggestion
Sun and Moon Style: While Loss aversion and Slow counter aren't overpowered traits, Sun And Moon Style is specific to dagger and even as a niche falls short in comparison. Change it so 3% of outgoing damage heals you regardless of weapon wielded. Effect is doubled when wielding daggers.

Comments

  • LaGranse.8652LaGranse.8652 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2019

    The way this post was structured makes it an utter misery to read. I lasted 3 sentences.

    edit: author has fixed the structure.

  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 21, 2019

    @LaGranse.8652 said:
    The way this post was structured makes it an utter misery to read. I lasted 3 sentences.

    Yeah I apologize for that. I tried using a markdown table but the preview didn't end up as it was supposed to.

    /edit alright i fixed it

  • the spell breaker changes would bring me back to the game... wont happen though

  • Well thought through. I don't necessarily agree to everything, but this would be a great balance/rework patch for warriors. It would fix quite a number of problems with the class. Well done

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Oh my god the formatting is so pretty. I don't know Warrior though, sorry.

  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2019

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    Oh my god the formatting is so pretty. I don't know Warrior though, sorry.

    Thanks.

    Was gonna add wiki links to the second part but there's a character limit preventing me from doing that (edit/ nvm fixed that too)

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 @Karl McLain.5604 for your consideration.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2019

    Body blow has uses with a CC oriented build with the weakness it applies. The bleed is just a cover condi.

    The entire purpose of Forceful Greatsword is the might gain. It is meant to be paired with Might Makes Right for OW sustain, or Phalanx Strength for Party Might generation sans a Druid.

    I'd be cool with that Merciless hammer change.

    Opportunist is supposed to be paired with Leg Specialist, but sans that you have Longbow, Rifle, sword, and harpoon gun that can immobilize a target. Throw Bolas works for any weapon. This also pairs with No Escape from Spell Breaker.

    I like the proposed Unsuspecting Foe change ^^

    Arms was the Precision and Condi Damage line prior to when they removed stats from the traits. Furious is more than a stacking condi damage buff though, it also triples your adrenalin gain rate if you crit. Most builds have high crit chance to maximize DPS. Furious is fine as is.

    Savage Instinct + Headbutt gets you into Berserk mode with a stunned target and you unstunned. If they break stun then you still have damage mitigation while doing your burst to down them. More of a WvW thing, but in PvE Smash brawler is better.

    King of Flames KEEP the power damage, why would you want less damage?

    Eternal Champion + Savage Instinct + Rousing Resilience can make a bruiser with high toughness during BMode, granted most people go Berserker for big deeps, but for someone wanting more sustain this is a valid option.

    Gunflame: leave my noobslaying F1 alone. I'd be open to a dmg decrease only after the rest of rifle is updated.

    Pommel Bash mmmmm ammo sill with daze. Would be OP in PvP maybe...

    Wild Blow is not a niche use. It is one of the BEST CC skills on a Berserker's bar, and fully buffed can hit for very high numbers.

    In general, I agree that the rage skills need to provide adrenaline. Rifle would probably be in a okay spot if the AA was a three round burst that did at least 50% more damage than it currently does. A projectile increase on all the rifle skills is needed as well, in no way should my bullets feel slower than a Ranger's arrows... Flurry needs its self root removed, bleeds and power damage increased by 50% to make it worth using over the AA chain.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You point out that Condi builds need the longbow trait, but then move it to discipline.

    Longbow needs to move to arms, and there needs to be a trait that increases burning duration in arms for core, maybe 20%.

    Flurry needs to be unrooted. Swapping places with final blow does not make sense since it wouldn't be used until under 50%.

    Mostly I agree with your ideas.

    I'd like to see more live to Condi builds for warrior....bleed only is so bad in 2019. More burning for core please!

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Buffing disci spec, increasing passive adrenaline gain and putting a berk stance reset on headbutt. Oof :astonished:

  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭

    Hoping to see more criticism tbh. Anyone have anything to say what and why something is a bad idea?

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheBravery.9615 said:
    Hoping to see more criticism tbh. Anyone have anything to say what and why something is a bad idea?

    Well I did provide an itemized list for you :tongue:

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why "buffing disci spec, increasing passive adrenaline gain and resetting berk stance on headbutt" is a bad idea -because it'll be way too strong and in the end will bring more nerfs than improvements. I'm not commenting on everything, because I'm too lazy to make another wall of text, so I'll just stop at what I think is obviously too strong of a buff.

  • @TheBravery.9615 said:

    Brave Stride: Design of this trait only benefits the warrior once when entering combat and provides no benefit in sustained combat state. Goes against the design philosophy of the warrior remaining in combat and gaining adrenaline. Rework this. Gain 5 strikes of adrenaline on your first strike entering combat. Landing burst attacks grant 1 stack of 6 second stability.

    Counter-suggestion: Reduce duration of stability to 4 seconds, with 8 second internal cooldown.

    Reason: It could have allowed for egregious amounts of stability stacking with Discipline traits or skills like Decapitate, which would be excessive for an adept trait. Still might be a bit too strong, comparable to Crystal Configuration: Eclipse on Holosmith.

    Opportunist: Warrior only have 5 skills in their entire arsenal that inflict immobilize. 1 of which is from an aquatic weapon, another 1 from a utility, and another from a burst attack- meaning only 2 weapons skills inflict immobilize For a trait that benefits when you inflict immobilize, this is extremely lacking. Need to turn it around and have it inflict immobilize under special conditions. Rework this. Critical strikes against foes under 25% health will immobilize them for 1 second (15s cd). Gain 5s fury when striking foes under 25%. (15s cd)

    Counter-suggestion: Replace this trait with your version of Burning Arrows.

    Reason: Since Arms is meant to be the condition damage line, the longbow trait seems more suitable here than in Discipline.

    Dual Wielding: Too much of a niche and the benefit is minimal even when wielding dual weapons. The speed increase conflicts with the speed cap that comes with quickness. Rework this. Critical strikes gain bonus adrenaline, with effect doubled when wielding a mainhand weapon on offhand. Gain 5 seconds of alacrity when you gain max adrenaline (15s cd)

    Counter-suggestion: Instead of alacrity, your next strike after reaching max adrenaline inflicts 10 stacks of bleeding, same cooldown.

    Reason: As far as I know, ANet wants to limit the availability of certain boons such as alacrity to specific classes. Additionally, it seems odd for a damage-oriented condition line like Arms to grant a supportive boon like alacrity.

    Defy Pain: Despite it's history of nerfs it remains a prime choice in the defense trait line, but mostly because of the fact it competes with the likes of sundering mace and armored attack. It's likely in the best interest of the balance of this game to just move it to swap it with Rousing Resilience in Major Grandmaster, so the Major Grandmaster traits offer the choice between physical damage mitigation (defy pain), condition damage mitigation (Cleansing Ire), or control mitigation (Last Stand) Swap places with Rousing Resilience in Major Grandmaster. Increase PvP stance time to 3 seconds from 2 seconds.

    Counter-suggestion: Leave Defy Pain in its current slot. Change the trait to stunbreak and grant 8 seconds of protection when struck below 50% health, 60 second cooldown.

    Reason: I think it's healthier for the game if the devs continue to rework these passive invulnerability traits, like they did with passive Elixir S on Engineer. Reducing the power of this trait would also make it less of an automatic pick in its slot.

    Last Stand: Tooltip is inaccurate. Trait will proc when warrior has stability and isn't disabled Either update tooltip so it clarifies so this will proc when struck by an attack with a disable effect or account for when the warriors have stability.

    Counter-suggestion: Remove the auto-stunbreak on this trait. It now grants 2 stacks of stability for 6 seconds upon activating a stance, in addition to its current effects.

    Reason: As with Defy Pain, I believe it's better to have fewer passive traits in the game.

    Cleansing Ire: Fell out of favor due to rampant condi re-application. In need of a minor tune up. Conflicts with spellbreaker's "Revenge Counter", removes condition before they're transferred. Update this so you remove 3 conditions regardless of amount of adrenaline spent. Rework it so transfer effects occur before the conditions are removed.

    Counter-suggestion: Retain the current scaling of conditions removed with adrenaline spent. In addition to its current effects, this trait now removes blind upon casting a burst skill.

    Reason: I suspect the main reason this trait has become unpopular is due to its reliance on actually landing burst skills to proc cleanse. Clearing blind at the start of the cast would make it more reliable.

    Phalanx Strength: Fell out of favor with the nerf and made it no longer a viable option. In addition to it's current effects, nearby allies will also have their might cap increased from 25 to 30.

    Counter-suggestion: Leave the might cap. Increase the base duration of might granted to 5 seconds.

    Reason: Increasing the might cap would make this trait a must-pick in PvE modes, which contradicts the reason for nerfing it in the first place (i.e. to make room for other sources of might stacking). Your proposed change to Body Blow also makes it stronger, with axe skills granting guaranteed might on all crits instead of half.

    Smash Brawler: My issue with this is that it's pve minded only and is not a viable option for PvP and WvW due to the uncontrollable nature of berserk and when it's needed most. In addition to current effect, unlock the F2 function to end berserk mode early and put on full cooldown. (Deals PBAOE damage, dazes self and inflicts damage on self)

    Counter-suggestion: Rage skills now decrease the cooldown of Berserk by 3 seconds when used outside of Berserk Mode.

    Reason: While it would be interesting to have an actual functionality/UI shift, that might be too much to ask for an adept trait. This change would accomplish the same goal of granting more control over Berserk uptime/downtime.

    Sun and Moon Style: While Loss aversion and Slow counter aren't overpowered traits, Sun And Moon Style is specific to dagger and even as a niche falls short in comparison. Change it so critical hits with dagger strips boons.

    Counter-suggestion: Remove the main-hand and off-hand limitations of this trait, i.e. while wielding a dagger in any hand, heal for a percent of outgoing critical damage and interrupts grant quickness.

    Reason: Adding passive boon strip to a trait in this slot would have negative synergy with Loss Aversion while also being notable powercreep. In my opinion, it's better for boon strip to remain tied to specific skills.

    Full Counter: For a profession mechanic this has become a very weak attack in competitive modes. Overnerfed. Initial issues came from it's behavior, activating from ranged attacks and punishing allies near the spellbreaker if hit accidentally. Change it's behavior so it's similar to Riposte, blocking ranged attacks and only activating when struck by a melee attack by an opponent within range. Increase damage in competitive modes to 50% of PvE damage.Make this skill have animation priority over other skills instead of queuing behind so this can be used reactively instead of predictively. Inflict disenchantment for 5 seconds on enemies you strike (unable to apply boons)

    Counter-suggestion: Full Counter is no longer considered a burst skill. Normalize its cooldown and damage at 10 seconds and 75% of its PvE value respectively. It's now a single-target attack that exclusively targets the entity that triggered it, inflicting disenchantment. If it fails to strike a target, refund the adrenaline spent.

    Reason: With your suggested changes to traits like Brave Stride, Body Blow, Cleansing Ire, and Burst Mastery, Full Counter has the potential to be an excessively overloaded skill. Removing its burst status would solve this problem while also making it easier to balance in general. Additionally, though your proposal would remove the possibility of ranged attackers triggering Full Counter on their allies in melee distance, it wouldn't necessarily address the issues of clones/pets, pulsing AoEs, or secondary melee attackers. Making it a single-target attack on the enemy that activated it would ensure that it only punished that individual while also matching Spellbreaker's design as a duelist specialization. However, I do like the idea of disenchantment as a means of mitigating boon reapplication in the current boon-heavy meta.

    Scorched Earth: Minor bug or oversight, your are able to proc adrenaline traits even if you don't hit anyone with this if you just fire this and it lands on the ground. Fix bug
    Combustive Shot: Same issue as scorched earth. Fix bug

    Counter-suggestion: Leave as is.

    Reason: Since this is currently the only reason to take longbow in competitive modes, I don't think it needs to be changed for the time being.

    Kill Shot: Severely outdated cheesy attack. Needs a usability update Remove the kneel animation to cast. Allow movement

    Counter-suggestion: Add a visual indicator to the skill's warm-up animation.

    Reason: While it would be great if this skill became unrooted, it would then need additional telegraphing to distinguish it from generic rifle skills.

    Flurry: This is a pretty awful attack to spend adrenaline on. Long cast time, self rooting, poor damage. Final Thrust is more worthy of being a burst attack.. Just swap places with Final Thrust
    Final Thrust: This is a good attack, worthy of being a burst. More so than flurry.. Just swap places with Flurry

    Counter-suggestion: Keep Flurry as the burst skill, but it now reflects projectiles. Either significantly reduce its cast time or increase its damage/bleed stacks.

    Reason: Moving a bad skill from the burst to the weapon won't make it any less of a bad skill, better to just update it.

    Outrage: What I dislike about the changes to the rage skills and h ow they tie with berserker duration is the fact that they don't benefit the warrior outside of berserker. It could be given a Glyph / physical treatment which would give it more uses While in berserk mode, this increases berserk duration (more if breaking a stun). Outside of berserk mode, you gain adrenaline. Gain 2 additional charges, increase cooldown to 20 seconds.
    Shattering Blow: Same issue as outrage. While in berserk mode, increase berserk duration. Outside of berserk mode, gain adrenaline.
    Sundering Leap: Same issue as outrage, doesn't have a use scenario or niche to use. While in berserk mode, increase berserk duration. Outside of berserk mode, gain adrenaline. Reduce cast time to half second, change from vulnerability and cripple to burning, bleeding, and torment.
    Wild Blow: Same issue as outrage, nice use. While in berserk mode, increase berserk duration. Outside of berserk mode, gain adrenaline. Greatly increase damage dealt and launch distance.
    Headbutt: Same issue as outrage. While in berserk mode, increase berserk duration. Outside of berserk mode, refreshes the berserk mode cooldown.

    Counter-suggestion: Leave as is, rework Smash Brawler or make Berserk cd reduction baseline.

    Reason: In terms of improved functionality, I think it's better for Rage skills to incrementally reduce the cooldown of Berserk Mode when used outside of it, per my Smash Brawler suggestion. Building adrenaline outside of Berserk isn't an issue, it's sitting at full adrenaline when Berserk Mode is still on a long cooldown.

    Sight Beyond Sight: That recent 2 second revealed increase did not change the underlying flaws with this ability and how stealth works in game. Increase radius to 600. Grants self the ability to see stealthed players within range.

    Counter-suggestion: This skill now makes all attacks critical hits for 5 seconds and applies revealed to foes struck. Also grants immunity to blindness for its duration.

    Reason: While your idea for countering stealth would be cool, it would make it difficult for stealthed players to know when they're still visible. Furthermore, I think it's best if there aren't multiple anti-stealth mechanics in the game. Maybe they can implement your suggestion in a future overhaul to how stealth and reveal work.

  • Fear Me: Cooldown too high for low benefit. This is a gimmick so I guess embrace the gimmick? If the 5 target cap limit is lifted and this is able to fear 15 enemies, this would be worth taking in such a scenario even with a 60 second cooldown.

    Counter-suggestion: Reduce cooldown to 40 seconds, increase maximum range to 900.

    Reason: In the only game mode where fearing 15 enemies would be useful, it's likely that those targets would have stability and/or resistance. Lowering the cooldown seems like a better way of improving this skill in general.

    Frenzy: Reason why this isn't taken is because this is only a damage modifier skill and there are better options out there for warrior. If this offered more utility in the form of something else, this would be considered. Rework this. No longer breaks stuns. For 10 seconds, burst attacks use reduced adrenaline and burst recharge is halved while this stance is active. Pulse quickness and alacrity. 40s cd.

    Counter-suggestion: Leave as is.

    Reason: This skill is actually pretty good now with the addition of might stacks in conjunction with the Might Makes Right trait. I think there's a good trade-off between using it as a damage boost or as a stunbreak, with the ideal scenario being to stunbreak into a counter-burst. It's a viable pick for the meta Spellbreaker build.

    I either agree or am ok with everything else. Great list as always, OP

  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭

    @Torqiseknite.1380 said:
    Snip

    Thank you for your input.

    Brave Stride: Counter-suggestion: Reduce duration of stability to 4 seconds, with 8 second internal cooldown.
    Reason: It could have allowed for egregious amounts of stability stacking with Discipline traits or skills like Decapitate, which would be excessive for an adept trait. Still might be a bit too strong, comparable to Crystal Configuration: Eclipse on Holosmith.

    You bring up a good point, I did not factor in decapitate's zero cooldown quirk when I thought of this. However, I'm not sure if just having this trait periodically and passively pulse stability while in combat would be the answer either because that's also moving towards passive gameplay. I think there should be some sort of player interaction instead of just entering combat, so bursts was the closest I could think of. To remediate this, we could throw in a 5 second cooldown and reduce the stability duration to 4 seconds so it won't be as overpowered.

    Opportunist: Counter-suggestion: Replace this trait with your version of Burning Arrows.
    Reason: Since Arms is meant to be the condition damage line, the longbow trait seems more suitable here than in Discipline.

    This is an excellent idea, could leave banners in discipline, burning arrows in arms, and opportunist in tactics. Especially like seeing opportunist and leg specialist all in one traitline. Arms would keep an option between condi damage (wounding precision), utility (signet mastery), and flat precision (burning arrows). Might need to rename burning arrows. Adopting this idea.

    Dual Wielding: Counter-suggestion: Instead of alacrity, your next strike after reaching max adrenaline inflicts 10 stacks of bleeding, same cooldown.
    Reason: As far as I know, ANet wants to limit the availability of certain boons such as alacrity to specific classes. Additionally, it seems odd for a damage-oriented condition line like Arms to grant a supportive boon like alacrity.

    Reason why I went with alacrity is because I was looking for a utility function in order to differentiate from furious (now a condi spec) and burst precision (crit / power spec).

    Defy Pain: Counter-suggestion: Leave Defy Pain in its current slot. Change the trait to stunbreak and grant 8 seconds of protection when struck below 50% health, 60 second cooldown.
    Reason: I think it's healthier for the game if the devs continue to rework these passive invulnerability traits, like they did with passive Elixir S on Engineer. Reducing the power of this trait would also make it less of an automatic pick in its slot.
    Last Stand: Counter-suggestion: Remove the auto-stunbreak on this trait. It now grants 2 stacks of stability for 6 seconds upon activating a stance, in addition to its current effects.
    Reason: As with Defy Pain, I believe it's better to have fewer passive traits in the game.

    Defy pain and last stand are almost necessary when zerging in wvw. Rousing resilience is a close contender to defy pain as another sustain option, but is overshadowed by last stand, so I believe that swaping them would be optimal.
    I do agree that passive traits are bad. Could probably throw in some requirements for these traits to activate. Example activation requirements for defy pain: must also kill something, trait will be active for 120s and will activate if you go below 50% health. Example activation requirement for last stand: must break a stun in order to activate trait for 60 seconds. In that 60 seconds, will automatically break stuns and activate last stand.

    Cleansing Ire: Counter-suggestion: Retain the current scaling of conditions removed with adrenaline spent. In addition to its current effects, this trait now removes blind upon casting a burst skill.
    Reason: I suspect the main reason this trait has become unpopular is due to its reliance on actually landing burst skills to proc cleanse. Clearing blind at the start of the cast would make it more reliable.

    I agree with the blind, (block and evade also issues, but outside scope), but this really needs to remove more conditions or at least have a better scaling to compete with last stand.

    Phalanx Strength: Counter-suggestion: Leave the might cap. Increase the base duration of might granted to 5 seconds.
    Reason: Increasing the might cap would make this trait a must-pick in PvE modes, which contradicts the reason for nerfing it in the first place (i.e. to make room for other sources of might stacking). Your proposed change to Body Blow also makes it stronger, with axe skills granting guaranteed might on all crits instead of half.

    Another good point. Sharing and allowing an additional 5 stacks of might might be a bit much. Unsure if increasing duration would help either as everyone just pumps might all day. Can probably just isolate the additional 5 stack might benefit to the warrior.

    Smash Brawler Counter-suggestion: Rage skills now decrease the cooldown of Berserk by 3 seconds when used outside of Berserk Mode.
    Reason: While it would be interesting to have an actual functionality/UI shift, that might be too much to ask for an adept trait. This change would accomplish the same goal of granting more control over Berserk uptime/downtime.
    Rage Skills: Counter-suggestion: Leave as is, rework Smash Brawler or make Berserk cd reduction baseline.
    Reason: In terms of improved functionality, I think it's better for Rage skills to incrementally reduce the cooldown of Berserk Mode when used outside of it, per my Smash Brawler suggestion. Building adrenaline outside of Berserk isn't an issue, it's sitting at full adrenaline when Berserk Mode is still on a long cooldown.

    Adopted, great idea. Facilitates the requirement of rage skills simultaneously as a way to manage berserk mode, love it.

    Sun and Moon Style: Counter-suggestion: Remove the main-hand and off-hand limitations of this trait, i.e. while wielding a dagger in any hand, heal for a percent of outgoing critical damage and interrupts grant quickness
    Reason: Adding passive boon strip to a trait in this slot would have negative synergy with Loss Aversion while also being notable powercreep. In my opinion, it's better for boon strip to remain tied to specific skills.

    Adopted, another great idea and good point at preventing power creep in my original idea.

    Full Counter Counter-suggestion: Full Counter is no longer considered a burst skill. Normalize its cooldown and damage at 10 seconds and 75% of its PvE value respectively. It's now a single-target attack that exclusively targets the entity that triggered it, inflicting disenchantment. If it fails to strike a target, refund the adrenaline spent.
    Reason: With your suggested changes to traits like Brave Stride, Body Blow, Cleansing Ire, and Burst Mastery, Full Counter has the potential to be an excessively overloaded skill. Removing its burst status would solve this problem while also making it easier to balance in general. Additionally, though your proposal would remove the possibility of ranged attackers triggering Full Counter on their allies in melee distance, it wouldn't necessarily address the issues of clones/pets, pulsing AoEs, or secondary melee attackers. Making it a single-target attack on the enemy that activated it would ensure that it only punished that individual while also matching Spellbreaker's design as a duelist specialization. However, I do like the idea of disenchantment as a means of mitigating boon reapplication in the current boon-heavy meta.

    Unsure about this but I get your point of the attack being overloaded (unfortunately its the curse of the warriors having only one profession mechanic). My issue is that it requires adrenaline so thus must be considered some sort of burst. I think 50% of PvE damage is a sweet spot to have as it's neither too strong or too weak. What we could do is also reduce the duration of the block from 1.5 second to 1 second.

    Scorched Earth / Combustive Shot: Counter-suggestion: Leave as is.
    Reason: Since this is currently the only reason to take longbow in competitive modes, I don't think it needs to be changed for the time being.

    I don't think having a bug on an attack should be the it factor to make a weapon viable in competitive mode. If that's the case, then the weapon likely has some sort of inherent flaws if unable to be viable by itself. Can make the projectile faster and last longer if needed, but hesitant because I'm aware of it's PvE potential. A PvE split will likely be necessary.

    Kill Shot: Counter-suggestion: Add a visual indicator to the skill's warm-up animation.
    Reason: While it would be great if this skill became unrooted, it would then need additional telegraphing to distinguish it from generic rifle skills.

    Adopted, agreed. Rifle has too many generic attacks, but the rework proposed should help a bit with it.

    Flurry / Final Thrust: Counter-suggestion: Keep Flurry as the burst skill, but it now reflects projectiles. Either significantly reduce its cast time or increase its damage/bleed stacks.
    Reason: Moving a bad skill from the burst to the weapon won't make it any less of a bad skill, better to just update it.

    Don't think just having it reflect projectiles will be enough to make this burst any better than final thrust. Flaming Flurry in comparison destroys projectiles, but it's not taken for projectile mitigation. I agree swapping places would be lazy but at the same time, I don't want power creep either. Final thrust is really good, it does eviscerate level damage on 3 enemies in cleave + Bleeds.

    Sight Beyond Sights: Counter-suggestion: This skill now makes all attacks critical hits for 5 seconds and applies revealed to foes struck. Also grants immunity to blindness for its duration.
    Reason: While your idea for countering stealth would be cool, it would make it difficult for stealthed players to know when they're still visible. Furthermore, I think it's best if there aren't multiple anti-stealth mechanics in the game. Maybe they can implement your suggestion in a future overhaul to how stealth and reveal work.

    Can have a visual indicator on the warrior like some eyes or something and if you're stealthed within range it turns red?

    Fear Me: Counter-suggestion: Reduce cooldown to 40 seconds, increase maximum range to 900.
    Reason: In the only game mode where fearing 15 enemies would be useful, it's likely that those targets would have stability and/or resistance. Lowering the cooldown seems like a better way of improving this skill in general.

    I was roaming desert borderland and a zerg was on catas at the NE bridge by the center shrine by air keep. I warclawed pounced on them, and managed to fear 5 enemies to their deaths and glided away safely. I wouldn't expect anyone to use this in a zerg v zerg clash, but while roaming it can cause some pretty hilarious shenanigans.

    Frenzy: Counter-suggestion: Leave as is.
    Reason: This skill is actually pretty good now with the addition of might stacks in conjunction with the Might Makes Right trait. I think there's a good trade-off between using it as a damage boost or as a stunbreak, with the ideal scenario being to stunbreak into a counter-burst. It's a viable pick for the meta Spellbreaker build.

    I really think this needs a pick me up. For great justice offers more might and more uses on a smaller cooldown.

    I either agree or am ok with everything else. Great list as always, OP

    Thank you for your critical review. I doubt ANET will read this thread but they could maybe take some pointers in our conversations. Feel free to rebuke if I disagreed anywhere btw.

  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭

    Thank you for your input as well, I haven't forgotten.

    Body blow has uses with a CC oriented build with the weakness it applies. The bleed is just a cover condi.

    The entire purpose of Forceful Greatsword is the might gain. It is meant to be paired with Might Makes Right for OW sustain, or Phalanx Strength for Party Might generation sans a Druid.

    Opportunist is supposed to be paired with Leg Specialist, but sans that you have Longbow, Rifle, sword, and harpoon gun that can immobilize a target. Throw Bolas works for any weapon. This also pairs with No Escape from Spell Breaker.

    Would prefer to traits to be self sufficient instead of relying on other traits to make them good. Even paired, body blow and opportunist/leg specialist aren't effective choices. Greatsword's trait just unevenly gives the trait an unfair advantage so I'd rather reduce power creep.

    Arms was the Precision and Condi Damage line prior to when they removed stats from the traits. Furious is more than a stacking condi damage buff though, it also triples your adrenalin gain rate if you crit. Most builds have high crit chance to maximize DPS. Furious is fine as is.

    In a PvE setting, but not in competitive settings (or at least I'm not aware of any)

    King of Flames KEEP the power damage, why would you want less damage?

    Didn't feel like the buff was necessary because it was a distinctive trait in the berserker trait line for condi builds. It was outright power creep.

    Gunflame: leave my noobslaying F1 alone. I'd be open to a dmg decrease only after the rest of rifle is updated.

    I'll be sad too if they nerf this but I've been playing for years and I've seen up towards 35k damage from this thing. It's 1500 range, instant kill and reloadable with blood reckoning. A bit too much.

    Pommel Bash mmmmm ammo sill with daze. Would be OP in PvP maybe...

    Increasing cooldown from my original 14 to 20s. Good point.

    Wild Blow is not a niche use. It is one of the BEST CC skills on a Berserker's bar, and fully buffed can hit for very high numbers.

    Probably split it for PvP/WvW to have more damage.

  • @TheBravery.9615 said:
    -snip-
    Thank you for your critical review. I doubt ANET will read this thread but they could maybe take some pointers in our conversations. Feel free to rebuke if I disagreed anywhere btw.

    Glad I could contribute. I think several of the areas we disagreed in are likely due to gameplay differences between WvW and sPvP, so it'd be up to the devs to work out trait/skill designs that would be effective in both modes. Hopefully this discussion provides some useful feedback for them.

    Also, in my suggestion for Brave Stride, I meant 4 seconds of stability on landing a burst with an 8 second cooldown, not 4 seconds of passive stability every 8 seconds. Sorry for the unclear phrasing there.

  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭

    Unfortunately the character limit is preventing me from adding more to my second post.

    Welp

  • Lol I ran into the same problem trying to post my input, had to retype the second half because it was too long to save as draft

    Additional balance suggestion: Increase forum post character limit to facilitate lengthy proposals

  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2019

    Made some additional changes recently

    Merciless Hammer: Instead of removing stability/protection, changed it to remove barrier off foes. Felt like spellbreaker has enough boon strip capabilities yet barrier is a mechanic without a countermechanic currently in game. This would introduce a viable and sought after countermechanic for WvW.

    Unsuspecting foe: Wanted to increase the opportunities of using this trait by adding 'from the side or behind' for the crit chance increase, but 50% might be abit too much if this was implemented.. Reducing it down to 20%

    Vengeful Return: Instead of gaining 30 strikes adrenaline, reduced it to 10 strikes. Implied by @Sobx.1758 to reduce power creep in suggestion. 10 strikes of adrenaline is enough for at least one burst, 30 admittedly was too much.

    Dead or ALive: Completely removed the fatal blow mitigation and just scrapped it entirely just to add barrier to primal bursts. Didn't feel like the existing traits would be useful as the window of opportunity is too low to make use of so might as well get rid of it.

    Frenzy: Modified wording so it just reduces adrenaline usage and burst recharge while active, added reduce weapon swap recharge as well. Felt like discipline is often sought after for the utility it brings but offering a similar benefit in the form of a utility skill might make this more useful.

    Signet of Rage: Removed passive adrenaline gain, implied by @Sobx.1758

    Headbutt: Added bleeding to compliment condi builds, changed wording from refresh cooldown to just reduce, increase CD to 30s. Admittedly was a bit too strong if it allowed to refresh Berserk mode outside berserk mode, would allow for 100% uptime of berserk mode. Giving it a baseline reduction + the option to trait more reduction with Smash Brawler should be fine.

    Criticism or thoughts on other skills/traits that need work welcome.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2019

    @TheBravery.9615 said:

    Thank you for your input as well, I haven't forgotten.

    Body blow has uses with a CC oriented build with the weakness it applies. The bleed is just a cover condi.

    The entire purpose of Forceful Greatsword is the might gain. It is meant to be paired with Might Makes Right for OW sustain, or Phalanx Strength for Party Might generation sans a Druid.

    Opportunist is supposed to be paired with Leg Specialist, but sans that you have Longbow, Rifle, sword, and harpoon gun that can immobilize a target. Throw Bolas works for any weapon. This also pairs with No Escape from Spell Breaker.

    Would prefer to traits to be self sufficient instead of relying on other traits to make them good. Even paired, body blow and opportunist/leg specialist aren't effective choices. Greatsword's trait just unevenly gives the trait an unfair advantage so I'd rather reduce power creep.

    Well Anet wants combos so... I can see taking the might gain on crit and moving it to a minor trait or taking it onto Might Makes Right though.
    Opportunist pairs well with No Escape from Spell Breaker, Leg Specialist just makes sure you have an immob on every weapon set (except mace/mace or dagger/dagger unless you have no escape). As far as power creep, the might gain from forceful greatsword and Might Makes Right have been there since 2012.

    Arms was the Precision and Condi Damage line prior to when they removed stats from the traits. Furious is more than a stacking condi damage buff though, it also triples your adrenalin gain rate if you crit. Most builds have high crit chance to maximize DPS. Furious is fine as is.

    In a PvE setting, but not in competitive settings (or at least I'm not aware of any)

    Not every traitline, trait, weapon, elite, or utility are meant to see use in every game mode.

    King of Flames KEEP the power damage, why would you want less damage?

    Didn't feel like the buff was necessary because it was a distinctive trait in the berserker trait line for condi builds. It was outright power creep.

    The power damage is minimal though, it gives an alternative to Bloody roar for power builds to take (not much of one granted).

    Gunflame: leave my noobslaying F1 alone. I'd be open to a dmg decrease only after the rest of rifle is updated.

    I'll be sad too if they nerf this but I've been playing for years and I've seen up towards 35k damage from this thing. It's 1500 range, instant kill and reloadable with blood reckoning. A bit too much.

    I too have seen those numbers, but the rest of rifle sans volley are just too mediocre to justify nerfing Gunflame.

    Pommel Bash mmmmm ammo sill with daze. Would be OP in PvP maybe...

    Increasing cooldown from my original 14 to 20s. Good point.

    Wild Blow is not a niche use. It is one of the BEST CC skills on a Berserker's bar, and fully buffed can hit for very high numbers.

    Probably split it for PvP/WvW to have more damage.

    More damage? Didn't you mention power creep earlier :tongue: it is still a great CC. Knock them back swap rifle, Gunflame, battle standard, collect bag.

    @TheBravery.9615 said:
    Made some additional changes recently

    Merciless Hammer: Instead of removing stability/protection, changed it to remove barrier off foes. Felt like spellbreaker has enough boon strip capabilities yet barrier is a mechanic without a countermechanic currently in game. This would introduce a viable and sought after countermechanic for WvW.

    I'm cool with this.

    Unsuspecting foe: Wanted to increase the opportunities of using this trait by adding 'from the side or behind' for the crit chance increase, but 50% might be abit too much if this was implemented.. Reducing it down to 20%

    This would probably make the Arms tree actually useful outside of PvE.

    Vengeful Return: Instead of gaining 30 strikes adrenaline, reduced it to 10 strikes. Implied by @Sobx.1758 to reduce power creep in suggestion. 10 strikes of adrenaline is enough for at least one burst, 30 admittedly was too much.

    Vengeful Return would be more useful if it caused your downstate attacks to do more damage like the Necro trait does. I am fully aware of the repercussions of this statement.

    Dead or ALive: Completely removed the fatal blow mitigation and just scrapped it entirely just to add barrier to primal bursts. Didn't feel like the existing traits would be useful as the window of opportunity is too low to make use of so might as well get rid of it.

    This might be too powerful. Primal Bursts can be fired off quickly. The barrier amount would have be on the smaller side, or have an internal cd.

    Frenzy: Modified wording so it just reduces adrenaline usage and burst recharge while active, added reduce weapon swap recharge as well. Felt like discipline is often sought after for the utility it brings but offering a similar benefit in the form of a utility skill might make this more useful.

    Reduced weapon swap should be baseline. Also be careful about overloading such a skill. No other profession has a utility skill that reduces the recharge of their profession mechanic. The only instance I can think of is a Guardian elite on a 90 CD just to clue you in on how powerful this would be.

    Signet of Rage: Removed passive adrenaline gain, implied by @Sobx.1758

    Headbutt: Added bleeding to compliment condi builds, changed wording from refresh cooldown to just reduce, increase CD to 30s. Admittedly was a bit too strong if it allowed to refresh Berserk mode outside berserk mode, would allow for 100% uptime of berserk mode. Giving it a baseline reduction + the option to trait more reduction with Smash Brawler should be fine.

    Condi builds get burn on Headbutt with rage skills traited, no need for bleed.

    Criticism or thoughts on other skills/traits that need work welcome.

    I'd love Brave Stride to do more. Gain stab and protection on might gain for 5s (icd 15s)?

    Crack Shot: rifle and harpoon gun skills have 100% velocity increase and do 1.5% more damage against foes per vulnerability stack (weapon dependent here). This would fix rifle imho.

    Powerful Synergy: Scrap this, it stinks replace it with something else related to finishers. Strike foes around you when you execute a finisher (icd 1s on whirling and projectile finishers) cannot crit, unblockable, something on the order of 1k-2k based on power.

    Burning Arrows: Make burning on AA baseline. Increase burn damage while wielding a Longbow instead.

    Swapping Burning arrows with opportunist is good. Highly approve of that. I has bugged me since 2012...

    EDIT: Hmmm No Escape might be better if it were flipped around. No Espcape: stun (1/4s) foes that you immobilize. That would make Leg Specialist much better of an option to take. It would also turn MH sword into a cc monster.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @TheBravery.9615 said:

    Thank you for your input as well, I haven't forgotten.

    Body blow has uses with a CC oriented build with the weakness it applies. The bleed is just a cover condi.

    The entire purpose of Forceful Greatsword is the might gain. It is meant to be paired with Might Makes Right for OW sustain, or Phalanx Strength for Party Might generation sans a Druid.

    Opportunist is supposed to be paired with Leg Specialist, but sans that you have Longbow, Rifle, sword, and harpoon gun that can immobilize a target. Throw Bolas works for any weapon. This also pairs with No Escape from Spell Breaker.

    Would prefer to traits to be self sufficient instead of relying on other traits to make them good. Even paired, body blow and opportunist/leg specialist aren't effective choices. Greatsword's trait just unevenly gives the trait an unfair advantage so I'd rather reduce power creep.

    Well Anet wants combos so... I can see taking the might gain on crit and moving it to a minor trait or taking it onto Might Makes Right though.
    Opportunist pairs well with No Escape from Spell Breaker, Leg Specialist just makes sure you have an immob on every weapon set (except mace/mace or dagger/dagger unless you have no escape). As far as power creep, the might gain from forceful greatsword and Might Makes Right have been there since 2012.

    Arms was the Precision and Condi Damage line prior to when they removed stats from the traits. Furious is more than a stacking condi damage buff though, it also triples your adrenalin gain rate if you crit. Most builds have high crit chance to maximize DPS. Furious is fine as is.

    In a PvE setting, but not in competitive settings (or at least I'm not aware of any)

    Not every traitline, trait, weapon, elite, or utility are meant to see use in every game mode.

    King of Flames KEEP the power damage, why would you want less damage?

    Didn't feel like the buff was necessary because it was a distinctive trait in the berserker trait line for condi builds. It was outright power creep.

    The power damage is minimal though, it gives an alternative to Bloody roar for power builds to take (not much of one granted).

    Gunflame: leave my noobslaying F1 alone. I'd be open to a dmg decrease only after the rest of rifle is updated.

    I'll be sad too if they nerf this but I've been playing for years and I've seen up towards 35k damage from this thing. It's 1500 range, instant kill and reloadable with blood reckoning. A bit too much.

    I too have seen those numbers, but the rest of rifle sans volley are just too mediocre to justify nerfing Gunflame.

    Pommel Bash mmmmm ammo sill with daze. Would be OP in PvP maybe...

    Increasing cooldown from my original 14 to 20s. Good point.

    Wild Blow is not a niche use. It is one of the BEST CC skills on a Berserker's bar, and fully buffed can hit for very high numbers.

    Probably split it for PvP/WvW to have more damage.

    More damage? Didn't you mention power creep earlier :tongue: it is still a great CC. Knock them back swap rifle, Gunflame, battle standard, collect bag.

    @TheBravery.9615 said:
    Made some additional changes recently

    Merciless Hammer: Instead of removing stability/protection, changed it to remove barrier off foes. Felt like spellbreaker has enough boon strip capabilities yet barrier is a mechanic without a countermechanic currently in game. This would introduce a viable and sought after countermechanic for WvW.

    I'm cool with this.

    Unsuspecting foe: Wanted to increase the opportunities of using this trait by adding 'from the side or behind' for the crit chance increase, but 50% might be abit too much if this was implemented.. Reducing it down to 20%

    This would probably make the Arms tree actually useful outside of PvE.

    Vengeful Return: Instead of gaining 30 strikes adrenaline, reduced it to 10 strikes. Implied by @Sobx.1758 to reduce power creep in suggestion. 10 strikes of adrenaline is enough for at least one burst, 30 admittedly was too much.

    Vengeful Return would be more useful if it caused your downstate attacks to do more damage like the Necro trait does. I am fully aware of the repercussions of this statement.

    Dead or ALive: Completely removed the fatal blow mitigation and just scrapped it entirely just to add barrier to primal bursts. Didn't feel like the existing traits would be useful as the window of opportunity is too low to make use of so might as well get rid of it.

    This might be too powerful. Primal Bursts can be fired off quickly. The barrier amount would have be on the smaller side, or have an internal cd.

    Frenzy: Modified wording so it just reduces adrenaline usage and burst recharge while active, added reduce weapon swap recharge as well. Felt like discipline is often sought after for the utility it brings but offering a similar benefit in the form of a utility skill might make this more useful.

    Reduced weapon swap should be baseline. Also be careful about overloading such a skill. No other profession has a utility skill that reduces the recharge of their profession mechanic. The only instance I can think of is a Guardian elite on a 90 CD just to clue you in on how powerful this would be.

    Signet of Rage: Removed passive adrenaline gain, implied by @Sobx.1758

    Headbutt: Added bleeding to compliment condi builds, changed wording from refresh cooldown to just reduce, increase CD to 30s. Admittedly was a bit too strong if it allowed to refresh Berserk mode outside berserk mode, would allow for 100% uptime of berserk mode. Giving it a baseline reduction + the option to trait more reduction with Smash Brawler should be fine.

    Condi builds get burn on Headbutt with rage skills traited, no need for bleed.

    Criticism or thoughts on other skills/traits that need work welcome.

    I'd love Brave Stride to do more. Gain stab and protection on might gain for 5s (icd 15s)?

    Crack Shot: rifle and harpoon gun skills have 100% velocity increase and do 1.5% more damage against foes per vulnerability stack (weapon dependent here). This would fix rifle imho.

    Powerful Synergy: Scrap this, it stinks replace it with something else related to finishers. Strike foes around you when you execute a finisher (icd 1s on whirling and projectile finishers) cannot crit, unblockable, something on the order of 1k-2k based on power.

    Burning Arrows: Make burning on AA baseline. Increase burn damage while wielding a Longbow instead.

    Swapping Burning arrows with opportunist is good. Highly approve of that. I has bugged me since 2012...

    The AA burning on Longbow is critical. We need some default, good Condi damage on core weapons.

    Here is the problem with the trait though:
    If you swap places, it means you have to pick 2 weapon traits to get a good Condi build.

    On top of that, if you put bow in tier 1, it means that you are competing with the expertise trait, which benefits all Condi damage. Which means almost no one will ever pick it.

    You could roll it into the sword trait, but then it can become to much and be mandatory.

    I think the best solution is to have a trait minor that improves weapon burning and bleeds by 20% and leave it at that. This would also mean getting rid of the bleed duration trait/rolling it together.

    We need core Condi weapons that don't have to be made choices to be effective. All other classes Condi weapons work well without traits. Warrior sword and longbow as they stand now do not do enough without traits for them to be effective as baseline weapons.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @TheBravery.9615 said:

    Thank you for your input as well, I haven't forgotten.

    Body blow has uses with a CC oriented build with the weakness it applies. The bleed is just a cover condi.

    The entire purpose of Forceful Greatsword is the might gain. It is meant to be paired with Might Makes Right for OW sustain, or Phalanx Strength for Party Might generation sans a Druid.

    Opportunist is supposed to be paired with Leg Specialist, but sans that you have Longbow, Rifle, sword, and harpoon gun that can immobilize a target. Throw Bolas works for any weapon. This also pairs with No Escape from Spell Breaker.

    Would prefer to traits to be self sufficient instead of relying on other traits to make them good. Even paired, body blow and opportunist/leg specialist aren't effective choices. Greatsword's trait just unevenly gives the trait an unfair advantage so I'd rather reduce power creep.

    Well Anet wants combos so... I can see taking the might gain on crit and moving it to a minor trait or taking it onto Might Makes Right though.
    Opportunist pairs well with No Escape from Spell Breaker, Leg Specialist just makes sure you have an immob on every weapon set (except mace/mace or dagger/dagger unless you have no escape). As far as power creep, the might gain from forceful greatsword and Might Makes Right have been there since 2012.

    Arms was the Precision and Condi Damage line prior to when they removed stats from the traits. Furious is more than a stacking condi damage buff though, it also triples your adrenalin gain rate if you crit. Most builds have high crit chance to maximize DPS. Furious is fine as is.

    In a PvE setting, but not in competitive settings (or at least I'm not aware of any)

    Not every traitline, trait, weapon, elite, or utility are meant to see use in every game mode.

    King of Flames KEEP the power damage, why would you want less damage?

    Didn't feel like the buff was necessary because it was a distinctive trait in the berserker trait line for condi builds. It was outright power creep.

    The power damage is minimal though, it gives an alternative to Bloody roar for power builds to take (not much of one granted).

    Gunflame: leave my noobslaying F1 alone. I'd be open to a dmg decrease only after the rest of rifle is updated.

    I'll be sad too if they nerf this but I've been playing for years and I've seen up towards 35k damage from this thing. It's 1500 range, instant kill and reloadable with blood reckoning. A bit too much.

    I too have seen those numbers, but the rest of rifle sans volley are just too mediocre to justify nerfing Gunflame.

    Pommel Bash mmmmm ammo sill with daze. Would be OP in PvP maybe...

    Increasing cooldown from my original 14 to 20s. Good point.

    Wild Blow is not a niche use. It is one of the BEST CC skills on a Berserker's bar, and fully buffed can hit for very high numbers.

    Probably split it for PvP/WvW to have more damage.

    More damage? Didn't you mention power creep earlier :tongue: it is still a great CC. Knock them back swap rifle, Gunflame, battle standard, collect bag.

    @TheBravery.9615 said:
    Made some additional changes recently

    Merciless Hammer: Instead of removing stability/protection, changed it to remove barrier off foes. Felt like spellbreaker has enough boon strip capabilities yet barrier is a mechanic without a countermechanic currently in game. This would introduce a viable and sought after countermechanic for WvW.

    I'm cool with this.

    Unsuspecting foe: Wanted to increase the opportunities of using this trait by adding 'from the side or behind' for the crit chance increase, but 50% might be abit too much if this was implemented.. Reducing it down to 20%

    This would probably make the Arms tree actually useful outside of PvE.

    Vengeful Return: Instead of gaining 30 strikes adrenaline, reduced it to 10 strikes. Implied by @Sobx.1758 to reduce power creep in suggestion. 10 strikes of adrenaline is enough for at least one burst, 30 admittedly was too much.

    Vengeful Return would be more useful if it caused your downstate attacks to do more damage like the Necro trait does. I am fully aware of the repercussions of this statement.

    Dead or ALive: Completely removed the fatal blow mitigation and just scrapped it entirely just to add barrier to primal bursts. Didn't feel like the existing traits would be useful as the window of opportunity is too low to make use of so might as well get rid of it.

    This might be too powerful. Primal Bursts can be fired off quickly. The barrier amount would have be on the smaller side, or have an internal cd.

    Frenzy: Modified wording so it just reduces adrenaline usage and burst recharge while active, added reduce weapon swap recharge as well. Felt like discipline is often sought after for the utility it brings but offering a similar benefit in the form of a utility skill might make this more useful.

    Reduced weapon swap should be baseline. Also be careful about overloading such a skill. No other profession has a utility skill that reduces the recharge of their profession mechanic. The only instance I can think of is a Guardian elite on a 90 CD just to clue you in on how powerful this would be.

    Signet of Rage: Removed passive adrenaline gain, implied by @Sobx.1758

    Headbutt: Added bleeding to compliment condi builds, changed wording from refresh cooldown to just reduce, increase CD to 30s. Admittedly was a bit too strong if it allowed to refresh Berserk mode outside berserk mode, would allow for 100% uptime of berserk mode. Giving it a baseline reduction + the option to trait more reduction with Smash Brawler should be fine.

    Condi builds get burn on Headbutt with rage skills traited, no need for bleed.

    Criticism or thoughts on other skills/traits that need work welcome.

    I'd love Brave Stride to do more. Gain stab and protection on might gain for 5s (icd 15s)?

    Crack Shot: rifle and harpoon gun skills have 100% velocity increase and do 1.5% more damage against foes per vulnerability stack (weapon dependent here). This would fix rifle imho.

    Powerful Synergy: Scrap this, it stinks replace it with something else related to finishers. Strike foes around you when you execute a finisher (icd 1s on whirling and projectile finishers) cannot crit, unblockable, something on the order of 1k-2k based on power.

    Burning Arrows: Make burning on AA baseline. Increase burn damage while wielding a Longbow instead.

    Swapping Burning arrows with opportunist is good. Highly approve of that. I has bugged me since 2012...

    The AA burning on Longbow is critical. We need some default, good Condi damage on core weapons.

    Here is the problem with the trait though:
    If you swap places, it means you have to pick 2 weapon traits to get a good Condi build.

    On top of that, if you put bow in tier 1, it means that you are competing with the expertise trait, which benefits all Condi damage. Which means almost no one will ever pick it.

    You could roll it into the sword trait, but then it can become to much and be mandatory.

    I think the best solution is to have a trait minor that improves weapon burning and bleeds by 20% and leave it at that. This would also mean getting rid of the bleed duration trait/rolling it together.

    We need core Condi weapons that don't have to be made choices to be effective. All other classes Condi weapons work well without traits. Warrior sword and longbow as they stand now do not do enough without traits for them to be effective as baseline weapons.

    Agreed. AA burning default on LB. You could turn BA into something generically burn related.

    Gunpowder Edges: your critical hits have 33% chance to burn (2s) no icd.
    Think Shishio Makoto from Rurouni Kenshin.

    Interesting side not is that this would make Whirling Axe in a fire field a really good burn applicator for Core Condi builds ( I know Core Condi isn't really a thing, but it could be with this sort of trait).

    That makes it weapon agnostic. I would say that wounding precision isn't that mandatory. You can get high condi duration without it, particularly if you only care about bleed and burning, so I do not think it would compete in slot with wounding precision. Sword trait is mandatory, Furious is mandatory.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2019

    I could see a generic burn proc major trait in some form.

    Of course, I really think arms traits need more work. The signet trait needs to do something to help condi. I liked it much more when it was precision bonus because it could benefit your condi or power builds. Unsuspecting for and Sundering burst just don't have a good synergy in arms. Unsuspecting for needs to trade places with body blow in strength so it can support Hammer, and it needs to be buffed. Suffering burst needs something... I never pick it because vulnerability is usually maxed on my targets anyway... Maybe it is useful in 1v1 pvp/wvw?

  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2019

    Appreciate the commentary. I see your perspective on wildblow, frenzy, and headbutt; removed the damage/launch increase and bleeding. removed the cd reduction from frenzy (alacrity should be enough)
    :anguished: Really wanted to see wild blow in PvP/WvW as the falcon punch

    Agreed with your approach, I think each trait choice within each traitline should be distinct from eachother and shouldn't compete for the same form of benefit. It's best not to have 2 condi traits compete with eachother, because one would always be chosen over the other. Baseline burning (or even bleeding or torment) on longbow should help.

    Edited rupturing smash
    from
    Increase damage by 25%, change AOE to full circle. Return the cascading attack effect. Reduce daze duration to half second, immobilize down to 1 second.
    to
    Change AOE to full circle. Return the cascading attack effect. Reduce daze duration to half second, Remove immobilize.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    I could see a generic burn proc major trait in some form.

    Of course, I really think arms traits need more work. The signet trait needs to do something to help condi. I liked it much more when it was precision bonus because it could benefit your condi or power builds. Unsuspecting for and Sundering burst just don't have a good synergy in arms. Unsuspecting for needs to trade places with body blow in strength so it can support Hammer, and it needs to be buffed. Suffering burst needs something... I never pick it because vulnerability is usually maxed on my targets anyway... Maybe it is useful in 1v1 pvp/wvw?

    Well Arms never really got a rework after they removed stats from the trait lines. Remember Arms was crit chance and condi damage focused and Unsuspecting Foe and Sundering Burst are based on crit chance.

    I think if Unsuspecting Foe included flanking in its descriptor and was reduced to 25% then it would be fine in slot. Sundering Burst is fine in WvW at least, but it is kind of lackluster still. They should update it to apply vulnerability based on the number of adrenaline bars spent and make you so X% more damage per stack of vulnerability ( I really want that somewhere on the warrior kit)

    I like the current function of Signet Mastery myself, but as it is now it is better suited for the Strength tree with its might generation themes. You have to remember though that when you hit things below 50% you are getting 10 stacks of might from Lesser SoM which helps BOTH condi and power.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Signet_of_Might

  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    I could see a generic burn proc major trait in some form.

    Of course, I really think arms traits need more work. The signet trait needs to do something to help condi. I liked it much more when it was precision bonus because it could benefit your condi or power builds. Unsuspecting for and Sundering burst just don't have a good synergy in arms. Unsuspecting for needs to trade places with body blow in strength so it can support Hammer, and it needs to be buffed. Suffering burst needs something... I never pick it because vulnerability is usually maxed on my targets anyway... Maybe it is useful in 1v1 pvp/wvw?

    Well Arms never really got a rework after they removed stats from the trait lines. Remember Arms was crit chance and condi damage focused and Unsuspecting Foe and Sundering Burst are based on crit chance.

    I think if Unsuspecting Foe included flanking in its descriptor and was reduced to 25% then it would be fine in slot. Sundering Burst is fine in WvW at least, but it is kind of lackluster still. They should update it to apply vulnerability based on the number of adrenaline bars spent and make you so X% more damage per stack of vulnerability ( I really want that somewhere on the warrior kit)

    I like the current function of Signet Mastery myself, but as it is now it is better suited for the Strength tree with its might generation themes. You have to remember though that when you hit things below 50% you are getting 10 stacks of might from Lesser SoM which helps BOTH condi and power.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Signet_of_Might

    hm they could prob also update the tooltip so it clarifies it grants might as well

    i'll add that

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheBravery.9615 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    I could see a generic burn proc major trait in some form.

    Of course, I really think arms traits need more work. The signet trait needs to do something to help condi. I liked it much more when it was precision bonus because it could benefit your condi or power builds. Unsuspecting for and Sundering burst just don't have a good synergy in arms. Unsuspecting for needs to trade places with body blow in strength so it can support Hammer, and it needs to be buffed. Suffering burst needs something... I never pick it because vulnerability is usually maxed on my targets anyway... Maybe it is useful in 1v1 pvp/wvw?

    Well Arms never really got a rework after they removed stats from the trait lines. Remember Arms was crit chance and condi damage focused and Unsuspecting Foe and Sundering Burst are based on crit chance.

    I think if Unsuspecting Foe included flanking in its descriptor and was reduced to 25% then it would be fine in slot. Sundering Burst is fine in WvW at least, but it is kind of lackluster still. They should update it to apply vulnerability based on the number of adrenaline bars spent and make you so X% more damage per stack of vulnerability ( I really want that somewhere on the warrior kit)

    I like the current function of Signet Mastery myself, but as it is now it is better suited for the Strength tree with its might generation themes. You have to remember though that when you hit things below 50% you are getting 10 stacks of might from Lesser SoM which helps BOTH condi and power.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Signet_of_Might

    hm they could prob also update the tooltip so it clarifies it grants might as well

    i'll add that

    Well the do state Lesser Signet of Might, and warriors should already know what that does . The funny thing is LSoM and SoM do exactly the same thing, there is no Lesser bit to LSoM.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Well the do state Lesser Signet of Might, and warriors should already know what that does . The funny thing is LSoM and SoM do exactly the same thing, there is no Lesser bit to LSoM.

    While strictly speaking I tend to agree with what you just said when other skills type than signet are used into proc traits, You have to take into account that a signet also have a passive effect so it's not that much of a stretch to say that it proc a lesser effect of the signet when only the active is displayed.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2019

    My issue with Signets Trait is not that it is not good, or that it isn't useful for power builds. The problem is that the Arms line as a whole has a hard time being good enough for a power build to ever be picked.

    2 of 3 minors only help Condi.

    Grandmaster for 100% crit burst trait invalidates the crit you have in a power build, many times pushing the cap.

    The dual weild trait is almost worse in that it is pointless to have, because it does the same thing as quickness and doe not stack. This makes it not worth taking for group play.

    Which means that most power builds will have strength, discipline, and then either SB or berzerker for the dame that they being. If you stay with core instead of elites, defense is better for pvp.

    It's hard to work signet mastery into a power build for arms when more than half the tree just doesn't work efficiently for power builds.

    I'd like to see them have some power options for arms traits.

    Keep Signet mastery as is, but improve Burst 100% crit trait to allow 100% crit for 3 seconds after a burst. Make the dual weild trait stack with quickness.

    Those would massively help.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    My issue with Signets Trait is not that it is not good, or that it isn't useful for power builds. The problem is that the Arms line as a whole has a hard time being good enough for a power build to ever be picked.

    2 of 3 minors only help Condi.

    Grandmaster for 100% crit burst trait invalidates the crit you have in a power build, many times pushing the cap.

    The dual weild trait is almost worse in that it is pointless to have, because it does the same thing as quickness and doe not stack. This makes it not worth taking for group play.

    Which means that most power builds will have strength, discipline, and then either SB or berzerker for the dame that they being. If you stay with core instead of elites, defense is better for pvp.

    It's hard to work signet mastery into a power build for arms when more than half the tree just doesn't work efficiently for power builds.

    I'd like to see them have some power options for arms traits.

    Keep Signet mastery as is, but improve Burst 100% crit trait to allow 100% crit for 3 seconds after a burst. Make the dual weild trait stack with quickness.

    Those would massively help.

    Well, a few points to consider for Arms and power builds.

    1) If you are camping GS (say in WvW cause Arc divider is lolz there), then Arms is a DPS increase over Discipline. It is harder to cap Crit Chance on a WvW build, so Burst Precision guarantees 100% crit on Arc Divider. Sundering Bursts likewise is guaranteed to give 10 vuln per burst, so if you BMode in their face and then Arc Divider the foe ends up with 20 stacks of vuln when the second and third hit of Arc Divider connect.

    2) Signet Mastery itself does offer Power Builds a great deal. Just having Signet Mastery slotted will average you 3 stacks of Signet of Ferocity (300 ferocity net gain) during a long fight. If you opt to use Signet of Fury instead of Healing Surge or Headbutt you then start your burst with 460 extra ferocity. If you were already crit capped, that is a 30% increase in damage on the opening burst. Once the foe is at 50% health you get unblockable attacks and extra might every 20s.

    Granted Burst Precision would be better if it granted a crit chance increase post burst would be amazing, but we had that at one time and Anet nerfed it. Heighted Focus used the be the crit chance equivalent of Berserker's Power.

    I agree that Dual Wielding is bad now. It was better at launch when quickness was more difficult to get, but now... I propose that Dual Wielding should grant quickness on a critical hit while dual wielding (4s duration, 10 CD). Heightened Focus in Discipline should be made into something else...

  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    My issue with Signets Trait is not that it is not good, or that it isn't useful for power builds. The problem is that the Arms line as a whole has a hard time being good enough for a power build to ever be picked.

    2 of 3 minors only help Condi.

    Grandmaster for 100% crit burst trait invalidates the crit you have in a power build, many times pushing the cap.

    The dual weild trait is almost worse in that it is pointless to have, because it does the same thing as quickness and doe not stack. This makes it not worth taking for group play.

    Which means that most power builds will have strength, discipline, and then either SB or berzerker for the dame that they being. If you stay with core instead of elites, defense is better for pvp.

    It's hard to work signet mastery into a power build for arms when more than half the tree just doesn't work efficiently for power builds.

    I'd like to see them have some power options for arms traits.

    Keep Signet mastery as is, but improve Burst 100% crit trait to allow 100% crit for 3 seconds after a burst. Make the dual weild trait stack with quickness.

    Those would massively help.

    Well, a few points to consider for Arms and power builds.

    1) If you are camping GS (say in WvW cause Arc divider is lolz there), then Arms is a DPS increase over Discipline. It is harder to cap Crit Chance on a WvW build, so Burst Precision guarantees 100% crit on Arc Divider. Sundering Bursts likewise is guaranteed to give 10 vuln per burst, so if you BMode in their face and then Arc Divider the foe ends up with 20 stacks of vuln when the second and third hit of Arc Divider connect.

    2) Signet Mastery itself does offer Power Builds a great deal. Just having Signet Mastery slotted will average you 3 stacks of Signet of Ferocity (300 ferocity net gain) during a long fight. If you opt to use Signet of Fury instead of Healing Surge or Headbutt you then start your burst with 460 extra ferocity. If you were already crit capped, that is a 30% increase in damage on the opening burst. Once the foe is at 50% health you get unblockable attacks and extra might every 20s.

    Granted Burst Precision would be better if it granted a crit chance increase post burst would be amazing, but we had that at one time and Anet nerfed it. Heighted Focus used the be the crit chance equivalent of Berserker's Power.

    I agree that Dual Wielding is bad now. It was better at launch when quickness was more difficult to get, but now... I propose that Dual Wielding should grant quickness on a critical hit while dual wielding (4s duration, 10 CD). Heightened Focus in Discipline should be made into something else...

    Agreed, arms is pretty good for power builds. I run 2 - 2 - 1 and the vulnerability/ferocity/100% crit chance on burst attacks make it hit pretty hard.

    That said, is the proposed change to dual wielding enough?

    Thinking of removing the alacrity as someone said doesn't fit, and changing it to: gain barrier when you gain adrenaline.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Oh, arms isn't poor for power, it is just out-competed by Discipline.

    Disc gives runspeed bonus, and 3% dmg bonus with swiftness, 100% banner bonus to yourself, more frequent finishers, faster swap, might on swap, and either amazing ferocity with axes with awesome adrenaline gain, or more damage multiplier (7%) to finishers and better adrenaline savings.

    As much as I like arms, it just can't compete when it comes to power builds.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2019

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Oh, arms isn't poor for power, it is just out-competed by Discipline.

    Disc gives runspeed bonus, and 3% dmg bonus with swiftness, 100% banner bonus to yourself, more frequent finishers, faster swap, might on swap, and either amazing ferocity with axes with awesome adrenaline gain, or more damage multiplier (7%) to finishers and better adrenaline savings.

    As much as I like arms, it just can't compete when it comes to power builds.

    Depends on other things. If you NEED your Burst to crit, then Arms is better. If you don't run axes then Arms may be better than Disc. But over all Arms needs buffing.

    I do not think Anet wants Alacrity on warriors. They made it exclusive to very few classes. I think granting quickness easily may be more feasible.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2019

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Oh, arms isn't poor for power, it is just out-competed by Discipline.

    Disc gives runspeed bonus, and 3% dmg bonus with swiftness, 100% banner bonus to yourself, more frequent finishers, faster swap, might on swap, and either amazing ferocity with axes with awesome adrenaline gain, or more damage multiplier (7%) to finishers and better adrenaline savings.

    As much as I like arms, it just can't compete when it comes to power builds.

    Depends on other things. If you NEED your Burst to crit, then Arms is better. If you don't run axes then Arms may be better than Disc. But over all Arms needs buffing.

    I do not think Anet wants Alacrity on warriors. They made it exclusive to very few classes. I think granting quickness easily may be more feasible.

    Agree on alacrity. I also don't think barrier fits warrior. I do want protection in the defense line somewhere.

    On arms vs disc, even if you don't use axes and need bursts to crit, disc is still better.

    A 10% damage multiplier in discipline is hard to top. On top of that, you get an extra 100 precision and 100 ferocity for a single banner. Bursting faster and swapping faster cant be underestimed, either.

    It would be one thing if you couldn't get crit capped, or get vulnerability on enemies other ways, but as it is, the arms traits are just lack luster because you get those effects frequently from other allies or stats or food/sigils. If those traits in arms stacked or were separate effects, I could see it.

    The only way I could see ever considering arms now over disciple from a damage perspective would be from a dueling point of view. And in that case, the utility of Defense trait line would have to be carefully weighed.

    Dunno, I used to run strength, arms, tactics/disc before they messed with arms. It worked then, but now it just isn't that great to use in power builds, imho.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803

    I was speaking from a dueling perspective. A Ber/Arms/Str warrior downs people without invulns almost instantly. YMMV of course.

    Outside of WvW though Arms needs more in it for power peeps. I think giving it an easy source of quickness would see it used in open world a lot, and in FotM pugs.

  • Rettan.9603Rettan.9603 Member ✭✭

    Not sure if people remember the time before the PoF pre patch (8th august 2017).
    They made made imo some bad changes to arms in this patch, i.e. the removing of the damage boost from Bloodlust or the removal of old Rending strikes as minor trait.
    Both made old Arms a better choice for Power builds while keeping it as a option for Condi builds.

    When I look at the 1-trick-pony Memezerker it feels really weird. This build is a bit broken with Arms because of the Major traits with not a single benefit from Minor traits. On the other side, Arms is totally useless for all other builds in PvP...

    Not sure what change is more needed: Arms or Tactics. But both feel really bad.
    And Discipline for sure needs some adjustments. (And nerfs to Spellbreaker)

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rettan.9603 said:
    Not sure if people remember the time before the PoF pre patch (8th august 2017).
    They made made imo some bad changes to arms in this patch, i.e. the removing of the damage boost from Bloodlust or the removal of old Rending strikes as minor trait.
    Both made old Arms a better choice for Power builds while keeping it as a option for Condi builds.

    When I look at the 1-trick-pony Memezerker it feels really weird. This build is a bit broken with Arms because of the Major traits with not a single benefit from Minor traits. On the other side, Arms is totally useless for all other builds in PvP...

    Not sure what change is more needed: Arms or Tactics. But both feel really bad.
    And Discipline for sure needs some adjustments. (And nerfs to Spellbreaker)

    I agree. I miss the old minors. I would say that both Tactics and Arms need reworking equally. Tactics is supposed to be our support tree, but the support we offer than anyone ever wants is in Discipline. The only other real support that people want is a lazy +100 power from Empower Allies in Tactics. Warhorn and its trait need a major overhaul. Vigorous Shouts needs a higher base healing on it. Phalanx Strength needs the might duration increased back to what it was.

    In Arms, we need more effects on a critical that benefit power builds. Dual Wielding needs either a DPS modifier, or quickness on crit. Burst Precision needs to grant +% crit after a burst. Unsuspecting Foe needs a Crit chance boost while flanking. Signet Mastery... well I would love the original trait back but that won't happen, but I feel that the ferocity boost could be higher.

  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 2, 2019

    Making a few more adjustments..

    Body Blow: Removed the suggestion to have bursts grant might and inflict weakness. Replaced it with "critical hits grant bonus adrenaline".

    • Wanted to move the might gain out of the greatsword trait into body blow to synergize with might makes right builds without requiring greatsword and to tune down the greatsword trait to be more in line with similar weapon traits that just offer a stat increase. However, allowing bursts to inflict weakness and grant might as well might be overtuning this. I looked at traits that "grant might on critical hits"' and two came up; furious and axe mastery. Since I'm removing that from those two traits, I thought it'd be fitting to drop it in here.

    Merciless Hammer: Removed the suggestion to grant 10 adrenaline on disables or 30 on interrupts. Replaced it with 5 stacks of Vulnerability on disables and 10 additional stacks on interrupts (no icd)

    • Thinking this through, if it were to instantly grant 30 strikes of adrenaline that easily there would be no need for other traits to grant adrenaline. Original suggestion was overtuned. Replacing it with vulnerability would tune it down while also synergizing with builds featuring concussive blows (discussed below in Dual Wielding)

    Bloodlust: Removing my suggestion from the list of changing it from chance on crit to 100% chance on bursts.

    • Didn't feel like making this change would make any meaningful impact towards the balance of Arms. It's a minor inconvenience and nothing more, would be a waste of developer time to change this.

    Furious: Added an 8s ICD to original suggestion

    • Forgot about decapitate and its zero cooldown, would cause for a spammy condi cancer attack..

    Dual Wielding -> Concussive Blows: Redoing my entire suggestion, scrapping original idea of having critical strikes grant bonus adrenaline + more when dual wielding and the alacrity gain on filling adrenaline. Replacing it with with Concussive Blows- Critical strikes against foe a foe with 25 stacks of vulnerability will inflict a concussion. [Concussion: 1/4 second daze. If target was interrupted, stuns for 1/2 second instead. inflicts 4s weakness and 2 stacks of 6s confusion, and deals some damage. Loses all stacks of vulnerability, 8 second icd]

    • Original suggestion was an attempt to salvage anything dual wielding could do but couldn't think of a reasonable benefit without competing with existing traits for more power creep while simultaneously offering a distinctive utility. Had to scrap it. I did make note that Arms offered builds for crit chance, condition damage, but not much of a 3rd option; so an idea was to make use of the existing traits. Exploiting vulnerability off foes came to mind.

    Warrior's Sprint: Adding a suggestion to the list. Removing the damage increase that comes with swiftness. Replacing it with: Removing immobilize grants 3s of swiftness.

    • This is an effort to slightly down tune the amount of damage and overall utility this trait offers to give the other traits and traitlines a more competitive offering. The immobilize removal is universally beneficial so the damage increase was unnecessary. (compared to crack shot and vengeful return).
  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't think I've ever seen banner of tactics or banner of defense ever being used in any game mode. To give each banner equal weight, I think we should scrap tactics and defense and make the banners single stat, and raise them by 70 points.

    Banner of Strength = 170 power
    Banner of discipline = 170 ferocity
    Banner of Tactics = 170 expertise
    Banner of defense corruption = 170 condition damage

  • Rettan.9603Rettan.9603 Member ✭✭

    @TheBravery.9615 said:
    I don't think I've ever seen banner of tactics or banner of defense ever being used in any game mode. To give each banner equal weight, I think we should scrap tactics and defense and make the banners single stat, and raise them by 70 points.

    Banner of Strength = 170 power
    Banner of discipline = 170 ferocity
    Banner of Tactics = 170 expertise
    Banner of defense corruption = 170 condition damage

    Oh plz not. You're right that they are never used and need a change, but I think this should go more in direction of functionality.
    For example: activation of a banner triggers a regular useful skill (maybe the old active skills on the 2).
    That way, they could make Banner of Defense a stun break or Banner of Tactics gives some additional heal what would made both a more interesting choice.

  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 3, 2019

    @Rettan.9603 said:

    @TheBravery.9615 said:
    I don't think I've ever seen banner of tactics or banner of defense ever being used in any game mode. To give each banner equal weight, I think we should scrap tactics and defense and make the banners single stat, and raise them by 70 points.

    Banner of Strength = 170 power
    Banner of discipline = 170 ferocity
    Banner of Tactics = 170 expertise
    Banner of defense corruption = 170 condition damage

    Oh plz not. You're right that they are never used and need a change, but I think this should go more in direction of functionality.
    For example: activation of a banner triggers a regular useful skill (maybe the old active skills on the 2).
    That way, they could make Banner of Defense a stun break or Banner of Tactics gives some additional heal what would made both a more interesting choice.

    Here's the problem with banners.

    1. The way they're designed makes them ill suited for anything outside of PvE. A flat stat increase is simply not enough utility for the warrior in a competitive setting where there's more elements to combat.
    2. PvE is a dpsfest with little to no consideration to sustain. PvE mobs have terrible AI, and most only rely on fixed damage that disregard toughness. Mobs also don't apply enough condition damage or strip boons off you. The way this game mode is designed also makes the banner of tactics and defense useless. In cases where sustain is needed, there are other options provided by other professions that do a much better job.
    3. The warrior forum has surely went through plenty of creative rework ideas, but none of these ideas ever make it because they're either disproportionate to each other or would just lead to power creep which is especially not needed due to how banners are pve meta.

    The only solution I could think of would be to significantly buff PvE mob damage or AI significantly into a point where the extra toughness/vitality or healing/boon duration would be necessary in a given scenario.

    another option I could think of (to make them PvP/WvW viable) is to increase the effective range to 1200 and significantly reduce the cooldown. This perhaps could be split from PvE but I have little hope of this happening.

    edit/ Updated Sun and Moon Style: Changed changed functionality so you heal based on 3% of outgoing damage regardless of weapon wielded, with effect doubled when wielding daggers to bring it more in line with the other weapon traits.

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 4, 2019

    nice attempt but warrior will forever be a disappointing pvp class, there's tons of ways to tweak warrior and not simply buffing/nerfing damage or healing number, just look at other classes.
    they could have done something since 2012, but they kept the same philosophy for warrior and they will never change.
    it took them 5 years to finally add evade on bull charge, evade on rifle which is still useless and movement speed on offhand axe (it needs a projectile reflect)

  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 4, 2019

    Don't like how the 3 grandmaster discipline traits all benefit power builds without any differentiation. Changing the following

    Axe Mastery: Have an issue with how the 3 major grandmaster traits in discipline all compete for power damage. Axes have decent combo-chains, so adrenaline is hardly an issue. Remove the additional adrenaline gain when critical striking. Instead, deal pbaoe damage when swapping to axes (Cyclone axe)
    Heightened Focus: Have an issue with how the 3 major grandmaster traits in discipline all compete for power damage. Heightened focus is the only option that gives condi builds some place, yet it's slightly weaker than burst mastery. Also restore a portion of Adrenaline spent in addition to current effects.
    Burst Mastery: Have an issue with how the 3 major grandmaster traits in discipline all compete for power damage. Heightened focus is the only option that gives condi builds some place, yet it's slightly weaker than burst mastery. Increase damage modifier from 7% to 15%. Move the 'restore a portion of adrenaline spent' part to Heightened Focus.

    to

    Axe Mastery: Have an issue with how the 3 major grandmaster traits in discipline all compete for power damage. Axes have decent combo-chains, so adrenaline is hardly an issue. Rework this. Burst attacks deal 10% more damage regardless of weapon wielded. Gain 200 ferocity while wielding axes, reduce axe skill cooldown.
    Heightened Focus: Have an issue with how the 3 major grandmaster traits in discipline all compete for power damage. Heightened focus is the only option that gives condi builds some place, yet it's slightly weaker than burst mastery. Also restore a portion of Adrenaline spent in addition to current effects.
    Burst Mastery: Have an issue with how the 3 major grandmaster traits in discipline all compete for power damage. Heightened focus is the only option that gives condi builds some place, yet it's slightly weaker than burst mastery. Scrap this trait. Move the adrenaline recovery to heightened focus, move the burst damage increase to axe mastery. Create a new trait in it's place that grants barrier and endurance whenever you activate a combo finisher. (Effect will double with powerful synergy)

    edit/
    removed the unblockable suggestion off merciless hammer, might be too op.
    Removed the suggestion to leg specialist to inflict immobilize on criples, left it so it only cripples when immobilize with no icd.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Your Burst Mastery proposal would be better on Powerful Synergy in Tactics.

    Keep Axe Mastery as is. Its fine.
    Change Heightened Focus to be what it used to be, crit chance based on number of adrenaline bars used. (5%,10%,15)
    Keep the adrenaline gain on Burst Mastery, that does indeed help condi builds, but increase the damage to 10% with a rider that it increases the number of condi stacks on bursts that apply condi (3 more bleed stacks, 2 more burn stacks). This might make flurry on a core build better than auto attacking and would allow Core Condi to compete with Berserker Condi.

  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2019

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Your Burst Mastery proposal would be better on Powerful Synergy in Tactics.

    Keep Axe Mastery as is. Its fine.
    Change Heightened Focus to be what it used to be, crit chance based on number of adrenaline bars used. (5%,10%,15)
    Keep the adrenaline gain on Burst Mastery, that does indeed help condi builds, but increase the damage to 10% with a rider that it increases the number of condi stacks on bursts that apply condi (3 more bleed stacks, 2 more burn stacks). This might make flurry on a core build better than auto attacking and would allow Core Condi to compete with Berserker Condi.

    What I was trying to get at was to divide the grandmaster discipline traits into different distinct categories instead of having all 3 benefit power builds. That way each trait would be given equal consideration depending on build type without being a tug of war for power builds.

    In hindsight I realize that tactics is still rather weak and doesn't offer warrior much in terms of support (and I forgot about the warhorn trait only benefiting warhorn.) Would like to see this change though, and have warrior bring something unique that other professions can't provide without further power creep.

    Making more adjustments
    Shrug it Off: Scrapping this trait all together. Replacing it with a new trait; removing conditions replaces the condition with regeneration. Regeneration you grant also gives 150 bonus vitality/toughness.
    Quick Breathing: Make warhorn target 10 allies baseline. Gain vitality. Gain bonus vitality while wielding a warhorn. Reduce cooldown on warhorn skills.
    Powerful Synergy: In addition to it's current effects, grants the combo initiator regeneration and endurance.
    Burst Mastery: Undoing my previous suggestion of having it grant barrier, replacing it with a condi spec trait. Swapping weapons will knock foes back (130 range PBAOE, 8s icd). If foes are knocked back, your next 5 attacks will inflict 2 stacks of 8 second poison.

    edit/
    Changed my Imminent threat suggestion to inflict exhaustion instead of disenchantment
    Changed eternal champion: Rework this. Prevent berserkers from gaining stability and protection while in berserk mode. While in berserk, your attacks are uninterruptible and any incoming stability or protection you gain is immediately converted to vigor, fury, retaliation, regeneration, and resistance. Evade for half a second when you break stuns. Getting interrupted outside of berserk mode will grant adrenaline.

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