Why is FGS still at 180s of cooldown? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why is FGS still at 180s of cooldown?

Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited July 23, 2019 in Elementalist

It's not an "I win" elite. It's no one wolf pack (60s cd), it's not rampage (120s, 96 if traited and its always traited), prime light beam (60s cd), winds of disenchantment (90s cd) or dagger storm (90s cd)

It's a freaking mobility tool with some decent DPS and an evade attached. No one has ever said in the history of games "oh kitten he popped fgs, careful". WHY DOES IT HAVE SUCH A LONG CD? Even weave self has a ridiculous 90s cd... but that's another topic.

The only elites that have 180s cd are racial skills, whirlpool (of course), battle standard and time warp.

Why does elementalist always get the short end of the stick? Scepter skills are still bugged since release and no one has cared to fix a kitten line of code in 2 years.

Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

<1

Comments

  • @Razor.6392 said:
    No one has ever said in the history of games "oh kitten he popped fgs, careful". WHY DOES IT HAVE SUCH A LONG CD?

    I agree the cooldown should be shortened.

    Anyone who hasn't said "oh kitten he popped fgs, careful" around me has probably paid a heavy price for it, though.

    | Solemn [PAL][shrd][wHo][DoM][BOZ] |
    | Wrath of God Staff Weaver Part II |
    | Fire Weaver Isn't Unfair You Just Need To Understand It |
    | Wrath of God Staff Weaver Part III |
    | Ex-Anvil Rock (RIP) |
    | NSP (main) | CD (alt) |

  • Noble.2670Noble.2670 Member ✭✭

    I couldn’t agree more, but it’s a ridiculously long cd for how impactful of an elite it is, All the core elite skills are pretty useless for what they cost compared to other classes

  • Aigleborgne.2981Aigleborgne.2981 Member ✭✭✭

    @Noble.2670 said:
    I couldn’t agree more, but it’s a ridiculously long cd for how impactful of an elite it is, All the core elite skills are pretty useless for what they cost compared to other classes

    Not true.
    Let's have a look:

    • lich form bad
    • flesh golem comparable to elemental
    • plaguelands only good on condi build
    • signet of rage doesn't feel elite
    • battle standard bad
    • rampage similar to FGS (long cooldown for what it does)
    • elixir X bad (random factor)

    Others are decent.
    IMO, glyph is fine in pve. It provides usefull elementals on decent cooldown.
    I like FGS, but cooldown is so high..
    And tornado is hopeless, dunno why it wasn't change after 6 years! Note that underwater whirlpool is decent.

  • Loboling.5293Loboling.5293 Member ✭✭✭

    At one point fgs used to allow for one shots. How badly I miss that 🙁

    The flame trail from skill 4, if you stacked it all in one location, each area of the field would tick damage.

    Anyway, nowadays there's no reason for the cooldown. 60 seconds should suffice. Or 90 at the most.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Going to be the voice of dissent here. Elites should be around 2-3 minutes. It just needs to be buffed as a skill...

  • spectrito.8513spectrito.8513 Member ✭✭✭

    Anet just forgot that this skill exists, just like the stab trait =)

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:
    Conjures should just be kits.

    Say it louder for the ones in the back

  • AsiraasiB.7165AsiraasiB.7165 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2019

    Yea I take the ele pet over sword tbh cuz of cool down and fire and air pet are decent

  • @AsiraasiB.7165 said:
    Yea I take the ele pet over sword tbh cuz of cool down and fire and air pet are decent

    Actually the Earth can tank any champion for the whole duration, good for soloing champs.

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It should be 90 seconds cd at most...

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stallic.2397 said:

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:
    Conjures should just be kits.

    Say it louder for the ones in the back

    While the idea is cool, it wouldn't be good to be forced into piano play more than we already are. Engineer was far to pigeonholed into all utilities being kits for a long time.
    However, I could see if all conjures were Elite kits, and you had to choose only one...

  • NICENIKESHOE.7128NICENIKESHOE.7128 Member ✭✭✭

    Could probably be ammo x3 given its CD

    [RED] Crimson Sunspears...your small family guild since 2015.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 27, 2019

    I have to admit, three minutes is an extremely long cooldown for a 30 second mobility stick with skill cooldowns...

  • Mystic Angelique.4021Mystic Angelique.4021 Member ✭✭
    edited August 3, 2019

    Cause the skill is stuck in pre 2012?

    A warrior with GS would do better without the cooldown maybe should start playing warrior

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭

    Most of the elite abilities are bad, even the cool ones. Shorter cooldown would help, but wouldn't it be better if you could toggle it on/off like engi kits, of course for set amount of time, instead of having to pick it up from the ground.

  • Eddbopkins.2630Eddbopkins.2630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Cuz ele cant have nice things

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    Because reasons.

  • Smeerlap.2698Smeerlap.2698 Member ✭✭
    edited August 6, 2019

    Elite Skill need a bit of change, meaning shorter CD and tuned so it's no a i win kind of skill.
    On all my characters i so rarely use them, sometimes i just forget completely that they are there, well.. on some characters.

    Really like to use different ones just to mix it up a bit, Hounds of Balthazar anyone ? =) but the other ones are usually far superior, shame really.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Because it's a sharable skill kit.

    Technically it allow 2 players to make use of it at the same time. It's true that most elementalist tend to use conjure into a rigid dps rotation and thus hate having their 2nd conjure "stolen" from them but the conjures are initially designed to be shared with other.

    Objectively, FGS is a pretty decent elite giving to the wielders (you and an ally) a 30s power/condition damage buff and a mid range weapon skill kit with evade and mobility skills. You can add to that that 180 seconds for 30 seconds of use is basically the same uptime than 120 seconds CD for 20 seconds of use and that you are not locked out of your utilities.

    I know that the way conjure work isn't satisfying but, truly, there is no reason to be jealous of other elite skills. If you were to talk about tornado, I'd understand the disatisfaction but FGS stay a strong option for the elementalist.

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Because it's a sharable skill kit.

    Technically it allow 2 players to make use of it at the same time. It's true that most elementalist tend to use conjure into a rigid dps rotation and thus hate having their 2nd conjure "stolen" from them but the conjures are initially designed to be shared with other.

    Objectively, FGS is a pretty decent elite giving to the wielders (you and an ally) a 30s power/condition damage buff and a mid range weapon skill kit with evade and mobility skills. You can add to that that 180 seconds for 30 seconds of use is basically the same uptime than 120 seconds CD for 20 seconds of use and that you are not locked out of your utilities.

    I know that the way conjure work isn't satisfying but, truly, there is no reason to be jealous of other elite skills. If you were to talk about tornado, I'd understand the disatisfaction but FGS stay a strong option for the elementalist.

    FGS stays a strong option for ele because ele its full of mediocre elite skills. Glyph of greater elementals is an inferior flesh golem, conjure FGS which has a whopping 180 sec cd, tornado that has been a joke since launch. The elite specs are not much better. You have rebound which is okay if you are very coordinated, but in other instances it's inferior to all of the utility shouts. Then there is weave self with a small area CC that takes forever to execute, but the bufs are okay at least.

    Also using FGS for 30 seconds is not going to happen, no matter who picks it up. For that to be a viable option it would need bonuses equivalent to a transform elite. If it was like a transform elite for 2 players then I could understand the CD, but it is in no way comparable in its current form.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Because it's a sharable skill kit.

    Technically it allow 2 players to make use of it at the same time. It's true that most elementalist tend to use conjure into a rigid dps rotation and thus hate having their 2nd conjure "stolen" from them but the conjures are initially designed to be shared with other.

    Objectively, FGS is a pretty decent elite giving to the wielders (you and an ally) a 30s power/condition damage buff and a mid range weapon skill kit with evade and mobility skills. You can add to that that 180 seconds for 30 seconds of use is basically the same uptime than 120 seconds CD for 20 seconds of use and that you are not locked out of your utilities.

    I know that the way conjure work isn't satisfying but, truly, there is no reason to be jealous of other elite skills. If you were to talk about tornado, I'd understand the disatisfaction but FGS stay a strong option for the elementalist.

    FGS stays a strong option for ele because ele its full of mediocre elite skills. Glyph of greater elementals is an inferior flesh golem, conjure FGS which has a whopping 180 sec cd, tornado that has been a joke since launch. The elite specs are not much better. You have rebound which is okay if you are very coordinated, but in other instances it's inferior to all of the utility shouts. Then there is weave self with a small area CC that takes forever to execute, but the bufs are okay at least.

    Also using FGS for 30 seconds is not going to happen, no matter who picks it up. For that to be a viable option it would need bonuses equivalent to a transform elite. If it was like a transform elite for 2 players then I could understand the CD, but it is in no way comparable in its current form.

    I'm sorry but FGS is superior to a transform elite skill. FGS have no drawback, this is where it's strength lie. You aren't hindered by a sudden form change, you aren't locked out of your utility skills, you see your feets, the stats bonus apply to your utility skills and this is something given to 2 players by a single player. If you compare FGS to lich form as an example, the overall dps potential would be about the same and FGS would have evade/mobility where Lich have stability for the same base uptime and even a superior uptime for FGS if you are alone and manage well your 2 conjure. After all you've got the possibility to access the FGS skills 2 time in a 30 seconds window while lich have a strict 120 seconds CD to it's skill set access.

    Brushing off all the freedom/flexibility you got and the possibility to share is silly. FGS have it's own strong points that totally dwarf elite transforms and, honnestly, isn't it better for elementalist to get avoidance tools out of this elite instead of stability? After all you got to take the beating for stability to have some use.

    Apart from a few, elite skills ain't great in general. They can turn around a predicament but that's all.

    NB: Weave self is also a pretty strong elite skill. Seriously, apart from the forever unsatisfying tornado, all elementalist's elites skills are objectively pretty strong and flexible. I'd take the glyph over golem anytime (and that's what I do when I play elementalist usually), I'm using FGS more often than I use lich (lich being a transform, that's a given), rebound can save your party's day and weave self is a nice 20 to 30 seconds personnal boost with a CC attached.

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Because it's a sharable skill kit.

    Technically it allow 2 players to make use of it at the same time. It's true that most elementalist tend to use conjure into a rigid dps rotation and thus hate having their 2nd conjure "stolen" from them but the conjures are initially designed to be shared with other.

    Objectively, FGS is a pretty decent elite giving to the wielders (you and an ally) a 30s power/condition damage buff and a mid range weapon skill kit with evade and mobility skills. You can add to that that 180 seconds for 30 seconds of use is basically the same uptime than 120 seconds CD for 20 seconds of use and that you are not locked out of your utilities.

    I know that the way conjure work isn't satisfying but, truly, there is no reason to be jealous of other elite skills. If you were to talk about tornado, I'd understand the disatisfaction but FGS stay a strong option for the elementalist.

    FGS stays a strong option for ele because ele its full of mediocre elite skills. Glyph of greater elementals is an inferior flesh golem, conjure FGS which has a whopping 180 sec cd, tornado that has been a joke since launch. The elite specs are not much better. You have rebound which is okay if you are very coordinated, but in other instances it's inferior to all of the utility shouts. Then there is weave self with a small area CC that takes forever to execute, but the bufs are okay at least.

    Also using FGS for 30 seconds is not going to happen, no matter who picks it up. For that to be a viable option it would need bonuses equivalent to a transform elite. If it was like a transform elite for 2 players then I could understand the CD, but it is in no way comparable in its current form.

    I'm sorry but FGS is superior to a transform elite skill. FGS have no drawback, this is where it's strength lie. You aren't hindered by a sudden form change, you aren't locked out of your utility skills, you see your feets, the stats bonus apply to your utility skills and this is something given to 2 players by a single player. If you compare FGS to lich form as an example, the overall dps potential would be about the same and FGS would have evade/mobility where Lich have stability for the same base uptime and even a superior uptime for FGS if you are alone and manage well your 2 conjure. After all you've got the possibility to access the FGS skills 2 time in a 30 seconds window while lich have a strict 120 seconds CD to it's skill set access.

    Brushing off all the freedom/flexibility you got and the possibility to share is silly. FGS have it's own strong points that totally dwarf elite transforms and, honnestly, isn't it better for elementalist to get avoidance tools out of this elite instead of stability? After all you got to take the beating for stability to have some use.

    Apart from a few, elite skills ain't great in general. They can turn around a predicament but that's all.

    NB: Weave self is also a pretty strong elite skill. Seriously, apart from the forever unsatisfying tornado, all elementalist's elites skills are objectively pretty strong and flexible. I'd take the glyph over golem anytime (and that's what I do when I play elementalist usually), I'm using FGS more often than I use lich (lich being a transform, that's a given), rebound can save your party's day and weave self is a nice 20 to 30 seconds personnal boost with a CC attached.

    Lich form is a really bad transform that needs buffs. Compare it to something like rampage which is a transform that is actually good. The evade on FGS is not bad and getting to use your utility skills is nice, but transforms also modify your base health in addition to granting stability. Also, it is viable to use rampage for its full duration, while using FGS for that long is something that never happens despite the benefits that FGS gives. That makes me think FGS is really not that amazing.

    Not sure how glyph is better than golem. Flesh golem is a permanent minion that is just as tanky and has a lower cooldown. It also has very reliable CC. The reason why you use glyph of elementals more on ele than flesh golem on necro is obviously because ele is squishier rather than the glyph being better. Rebound can save a party, but most of the time it won't unless you are very well coordinated. If you do not use rebound to save a party it is very underwehlming compared to even shout utilities, as it's basically just a delayed aura on a higher cooldown. I don't have any real complaints about weave self.

  • Draconious.2751Draconious.2751 Member ✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    Rebound is a significantly weaker AED that gives an aura and fury to 5 or 10 people traited. It heals a whopping 2836 hp with no healing power if someone takes lethal damage. Thats a single auto attack. Full minstrels with food, utilities and infusions it heals 5142 upon lethal damage. AED does that normally while also removing conditions.

    Dont get me wrong, its saved me a few times and I usually run it on my tempest. But it is by no means a strong elite, merely the only available elite that gives support. If used in a setting where it does not support a group it is a significantly worse AED.

    This is just the life of the ele, alot of utilies and elitles are worse when compared to other classes. The exception is weave self which has a good balance between cooldown and effectiveness while being unique. Fiery greatsword is a great elite whose downside is a ridiculously long cooldown. I dont think casting a 2nd fiery greatsword warrents the long cooldown.

  • Aigleborgne.2981Aigleborgne.2981 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2019

    @Ganathar.4956 said:
    Not sure how glyph is better than golem. Flesh golem is a permanent minion that is just as tanky and has a lower cooldown. It also has very reliable CC. The reason why you use glyph of elementals more on ele than flesh golem on necro is obviously because ele is squishier rather than the glyph being better. Rebound can save a party, but most of the time it won't unless you are very well coordinated. If you do not use rebound to save a party it is very underwehlming compared to even shout utilities, as it's basically just a delayed aura on a higher cooldown. I don't have any real complaints about weave self.

    Elite glyph is a lot more flexible than golem.
    Pretty sure than earth is a lot more durable than golem and it also gives prot.
    Fire does strong damage, not even comparable to golem.
    Water can do great heal, provided you manage to get close enough.
    Air can CC although I admit it, not as good as golem.

    Yes, glyph is not permanent but decent recharge and long duration.
    IMO, permanent elemental would be OP. You could run earth elemental forever in solo, he would never die.

  • Conncept.7638Conncept.7638 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2019

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:
    Conjures should just be kits.

    A solution as simple as it is completely unrealistic.

    You would essentially be giving the ele four more attunements, with no swap CD and 100% uptime. Balancing that could only be achieved by either nerfing conjures into uselessness, or nerfing the entirety of the classes weapon skills to half their current strength, which would make conjures a mandatory build choice just to achieve current power levels.

    You can't just double a classes skillset with no drawbacks and expect it to be balanced, especially when said class already has the most (default) skills in the game. This is the worst possible solution for conjures, it boggles the mind that it is one of the most suggested and supported solutions on these forums.

  • iKeostuKen.2738iKeostuKen.2738 Member ✭✭✭

    @Conncept.7638 said:

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:
    Conjures should just be kits.

    A solution as simple as it is completely unrealistic.

    You would essentially be giving the ele four more attunements, with no swap CD and 100% uptime. Balancing that could only be achieved by either nerfing conjures into uselessness, or nerfing the entirety of the classes weapon skills to half their current strength, which would make conjures a mandatory build choice just to achieve current power levels.

    Whats unrealistic about it? Just replace the elemental attunement with the kit/conjure and lock each one behind a trait line of the corresponding element with bonuses ofcourse cause the conjures/kits need some love.

    Going earth would bring out a shield. Fire, axe. etc.

    Or they could create a elite skill that turned our current attunement into a conjured weapon depending on the attunement as well. Which is used as a kit.

    You can't just double a classes skillset with no drawbacks and expect it to be balanced, especially when said class already has the most (default) skills in the game. This is the worst possible solution for conjures, it boggles the mind that it is one of the most suggested and supported solutions on these forums.

    Literally every elite spec for elementalist does just that. Drawback of being a ele already is needing to use double to triple amt of skills to produce the same results as other classes.

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    @Conncept.7638 said:

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:
    Conjures should just be kits.

    A solution as simple as it is completely unrealistic.

    You would essentially be giving the ele four more attunements, with no swap CD and 100% uptime. Balancing that could only be achieved by either nerfing conjures into uselessness, or nerfing the entirety of the classes weapon skills to half their current strength, which would make conjures a mandatory build choice just to achieve current power levels.

    You can't just double a classes skillset with no drawbacks and expect it to be balanced, especially when said class already has the most (default) skills in the game. This is the worst possible solution for conjures, it boggles the mind that it is one of the most suggested and supported solutions on these forums.

    Conjures as kits, or within an ammo system, wouldn't be impossible. As of right now, conjures have limited use. Even the elite is used more for escape and evade rather than damage.

    Nerf the conjures damage if need be. The weapons are only needed for their combat viability (block, quickness, evade, etc).

  • Conncept.7638Conncept.7638 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2019

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:

    @Conncept.7638 said:

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:
    Conjures should just be kits.

    A solution as simple as it is completely unrealistic.

    You would essentially be giving the ele four more attunements, with no swap CD and 100% uptime. Balancing that could only be achieved by either nerfing conjures into uselessness, or nerfing the entirety of the classes weapon skills to half their current strength, which would make conjures a mandatory build choice just to achieve current power levels.

    Whats unrealistic about it? Just replace the elemental attunement with the kit/conjure and lock each one behind a trait line of the corresponding element with bonuses ofcourse cause the conjures/kits need some love.

    Going earth would bring out a shield. Fire, axe. etc.

    I'm not entirely sure what you mean here but if you're talking about locking conjures behind a trait choice, that's ridiculous outside of adding them to an elite specialization. There is no base profession utility skill in the entire game that operates like that, it would make elite specs redundant, and it would solve nothing, you could still have three more attunements basically by default.

    Furthermore if you're locking the "kits" to attunement cooldowns, then you're not actually even suggesting kits in the first place, and this conversation is pointless. The only mechanical difference betweeen kits and conjures, is the second conjure, and the presence of a cooldown.

    Or they could create a elite skill that turned our current attunement into a conjured weapon depending on the attunement as well. Which is used as a kit.

    Exact same issue, no, actually worse, you would now have four more attunements without even the cost of your three utility skills.

    You can't just double a classes skillset with no drawbacks and expect it to be balanced, especially when said class already has the most (default) skills in the game. This is the worst possible solution for conjures, it boggles the mind that it is one of the most suggested and supported solutions on these forums.

    Literally every elite spec for elementalist does just that. Drawback of being a ele already is needing to use double to triple amt of skills to produce the same results as other classes.

    That is literally and completely mathematically incorrect, tempest gets four more skills per build, weaver gets six. That is not even remotely close to the 20 weapon skills or 29 total skills the ele has by default.

  • iKeostuKen.2738iKeostuKen.2738 Member ✭✭✭

    @Conncept.7638 said:

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:

    @Conncept.7638 said:

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:
    Conjures should just be kits.

    A solution as simple as it is completely unrealistic.

    You would essentially be giving the ele four more attunements, with no swap CD and 100% uptime. Balancing that could only be achieved by either nerfing conjures into uselessness, or nerfing the entirety of the classes weapon skills to half their current strength, which would make conjures a mandatory build choice just to achieve current power levels.

    Whats unrealistic about it? Just replace the elemental attunement with the kit/conjure and lock each one behind a trait line of the corresponding element with bonuses ofcourse cause the conjures/kits need some love.

    Going earth would bring out a shield. Fire, axe. etc.

    I'm not entirely sure what you mean here but if you're talking about locking conjures behind a trait choice, that's ridiculous outside of adding them to an elite specialization. There is no base profession utility skill in the entire game that operates like that, it would make elite specs redundant, and it would solve nothing, you could still have three more attunements basically by default.

    Miss.

    Furthermore if you're locking the "kits" to attunement cooldowns, then you're not actually even suggesting kits in the first place, and this conversation is pointless. The only mechanical difference betweeen kits and conjures, is the second conjure, and the presence of a cooldown.

    Miss.

    Or they could create a elite skill that turned our current attunement into a conjured weapon depending on the attunement as well. Which is used as a kit.

    Exact same issue, no, actually worse, you would now have four more attunements without even the cost of your three utility skills.

    Cost of a elite skill which functions literally the same as conjure elemental elite, but better.

    You can't just double a classes skillset with no drawbacks and expect it to be balanced, especially when said class already has the most (default) skills in the game. This is the worst possible solution for conjures, it boggles the mind that it is one of the most suggested and supported solutions on these forums.

    Literally every elite spec for elementalist does just that. Drawback of being a ele already is needing to use double to triple amt of skills to produce the same results as other classes.

    That is literally and completely mathematically incorrect, tempest gets four more skills per build, weaver gets six. That is not even remotely close to the 20 weapon skills or 29 total skills the ele has by default.

    4 attunement skills, 1 elite, 8 weapon skills. Tempest. That's not even counting utility and heal skills. If you wanna talk about bad math, dont use it in your example to make a point 🤔.

    Anyways the idea is for Attunements to become the conjurations/kits. So if your using staff and you swap to fire, you instead use a flame axe. Same with the other elements and in order to unlock kits for attunements its a grandmaster trait for that specific kit.

    It being a elite skill multi conjuration kit is a second idea that could take less time to do.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭

    Me being a Tornado user : Tornado why yu suck.

    Tornado : technically, I knockback.

    Good point Tornado but yu still suck.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:

    @Conncept.7638 said:

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:

    @Conncept.7638 said:

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:
    Conjures should just be kits.

    A solution as simple as it is completely unrealistic.

    You would essentially be giving the ele four more attunements, with no swap CD and 100% uptime. Balancing that could only be achieved by either nerfing conjures into uselessness, or nerfing the entirety of the classes weapon skills to half their current strength, which would make conjures a mandatory build choice just to achieve current power levels.

    Whats unrealistic about it? Just replace the elemental attunement with the kit/conjure and lock each one behind a trait line of the corresponding element with bonuses ofcourse cause the conjures/kits need some love.

    Going earth would bring out a shield. Fire, axe. etc.

    I'm not entirely sure what you mean here but if you're talking about locking conjures behind a trait choice, that's ridiculous outside of adding them to an elite specialization. There is no base profession utility skill in the entire game that operates like that, it would make elite specs redundant, and it would solve nothing, you could still have three more attunements basically by default.

    Miss.

    Furthermore if you're locking the "kits" to attunement cooldowns, then you're not actually even suggesting kits in the first place, and this conversation is pointless. The only mechanical difference betweeen kits and conjures, is the second conjure, and the presence of a cooldown.

    Miss.

    Or they could create a elite skill that turned our current attunement into a conjured weapon depending on the attunement as well. Which is used as a kit.

    Exact same issue, no, actually worse, you would now have four more attunements without even the cost of your three utility skills.

    Cost of a elite skill which functions literally the same as conjure elemental elite, but better.

    You can't just double a classes skillset with no drawbacks and expect it to be balanced, especially when said class already has the most (default) skills in the game. This is the worst possible solution for conjures, it boggles the mind that it is one of the most suggested and supported solutions on these forums.

    Literally every elite spec for elementalist does just that. Drawback of being a ele already is needing to use double to triple amt of skills to produce the same results as other classes.

    That is literally and completely mathematically incorrect, tempest gets four more skills per build, weaver gets six. That is not even remotely close to the 20 weapon skills or 29 total skills the ele has by default.

    4 attunement skills, 1 elite, 8 weapon skills. Tempest. That's not even counting utility and heal skills. If you wanna talk about bad math, dont use it in your example to make a point 🤔.

    Anyways the idea is for Attunements to become the conjurations/kits. So if your using staff and you swap to fire, you instead use a flame axe. Same with the other elements and in order to unlock kits for attunements its a grandmaster trait for that specific kit.

    It being a elite skill multi conjuration kit is a second idea that could take less time to do.

    You don't know how balance works so just stop.

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Conncept.7638 said:
    A solution as simple as it is completely unrealistic.

    yep. its probably a combo of class bias and lack of balancing awareness.

    you don't know till you know, ya know.

  • iKeostuKen.2738iKeostuKen.2738 Member ✭✭✭

    @Razor.6392 said:

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:

    @Conncept.7638 said:

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:

    @Conncept.7638 said:

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:
    Conjures should just be kits.

    A solution as simple as it is completely unrealistic.

    You would essentially be giving the ele four more attunements, with no swap CD and 100% uptime. Balancing that could only be achieved by either nerfing conjures into uselessness, or nerfing the entirety of the classes weapon skills to half their current strength, which would make conjures a mandatory build choice just to achieve current power levels.

    Whats unrealistic about it? Just replace the elemental attunement with the kit/conjure and lock each one behind a trait line of the corresponding element with bonuses ofcourse cause the conjures/kits need some love.

    Going earth would bring out a shield. Fire, axe. etc.

    I'm not entirely sure what you mean here but if you're talking about locking conjures behind a trait choice, that's ridiculous outside of adding them to an elite specialization. There is no base profession utility skill in the entire game that operates like that, it would make elite specs redundant, and it would solve nothing, you could still have three more attunements basically by default.

    Miss.

    Furthermore if you're locking the "kits" to attunement cooldowns, then you're not actually even suggesting kits in the first place, and this conversation is pointless. The only mechanical difference betweeen kits and conjures, is the second conjure, and the presence of a cooldown.

    Miss.

    Or they could create a elite skill that turned our current attunement into a conjured weapon depending on the attunement as well. Which is used as a kit.

    Exact same issue, no, actually worse, you would now have four more attunements without even the cost of your three utility skills.

    Cost of a elite skill which functions literally the same as conjure elemental elite, but better.

    You can't just double a classes skillset with no drawbacks and expect it to be balanced, especially when said class already has the most (default) skills in the game. This is the worst possible solution for conjures, it boggles the mind that it is one of the most suggested and supported solutions on these forums.

    Literally every elite spec for elementalist does just that. Drawback of being a ele already is needing to use double to triple amt of skills to produce the same results as other classes.

    That is literally and completely mathematically incorrect, tempest gets four more skills per build, weaver gets six. That is not even remotely close to the 20 weapon skills or 29 total skills the ele has by default.

    4 attunement skills, 1 elite, 8 weapon skills. Tempest. That's not even counting utility and heal skills. If you wanna talk about bad math, dont use it in your example to make a point 🤔.

    Anyways the idea is for Attunements to become the conjurations/kits. So if your using staff and you swap to fire, you instead use a flame axe. Same with the other elements and in order to unlock kits for attunements its a grandmaster trait for that specific kit.

    It being a elite skill multi conjuration kit is a second idea that could take less time to do.

    You don't know how balance works so just stop.

    Obviously the creators of the game dont know balance, but please share how this would unbalance the game in anyway.

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hellooooooooooo devs? will this ever be fixed? what's the drawback? just go into your code and change the value. It's that easy.

    No one will whine about broken dps or mobility because this ability is not even close to being overpowered. Make it 90-120s cd already.

    You know what's hilarious? Is that all other 180s cd elites HAVE A WAY TO DECREASE THEIR CD THROUGH TRAITS, WE CANT DO THAT FOR CONJURES.

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    And on the other hand why is glyph of elements not giving you a permanent elemental. Would it be too OP when it's permanent :P

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Razor.6392 said:
    Hellooooooooooo devs? will this ever be fixed? what's the drawback? just go into your code and change the value. It's that easy.

    No one will whine about broken dps or mobility because this ability is not even close to being overpowered. Make it 90-120s cd already.

    You know what's hilarious? Is that all other 180s cd elites HAVE A WAY TO DECREASE THEIR CD THROUGH TRAITS, WE CANT DO THAT FOR CONJURES.

    Yes you can. The trait is worthless though.

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @Razor.6392 said:
    Hellooooooooooo devs? will this ever be fixed? what's the drawback? just go into your code and change the value. It's that easy.

    No one will whine about broken dps or mobility because this ability is not even close to being overpowered. Make it 90-120s cd already.

    You know what's hilarious? Is that all other 180s cd elites HAVE A WAY TO DECREASE THEIR CD THROUGH TRAITS, WE CANT DO THAT FOR CONJURES.

    Yes you can. The trait is worthless though.

    It decreases the abilities cd, not the initial summon cd.

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • iKeostuKen.2738iKeostuKen.2738 Member ✭✭✭

    @Razor.6392 said:
    Hellooooooooooo devs? will this ever be fixed? what's the drawback? just go into your code and change the value. It's that easy.

    No one will whine about broken dps or mobility because this ability is not even close to being overpowered. Make it 90-120s cd already.

    You know what's hilarious? Is that all other 180s cd elites HAVE A WAY TO DECREASE THEIR CD THROUGH TRAITS, WE CANT DO THAT FOR CONJURES.

    Hellooooooooooo razor? Still waiting for an explanation on how the idea would be unbalanced!

  • @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @Razor.6392 said:
    Hellooooooooooo devs? will this ever be fixed? what's the drawback? just go into your code and change the value. It's that easy.

    No one will whine about broken dps or mobility because this ability is not even close to being overpowered. Make it 90-120s cd already.

    You know what's hilarious? Is that all other 180s cd elites HAVE A WAY TO DECREASE THEIR CD THROUGH TRAITS, WE CANT DO THAT FOR CONJURES.

    Yes you can. The trait is worthless though.

    I do like this trait, although Burning Precision is a serious competitor.
    For my lightning hammer ele, I really appreciate 20% CD on skills. It allows me to proc lightning rod more often (5 to 2, then 3), not to mention lightning storm excellent damage.
    Moreover, it also helps spamming FGS whirlwind when soloing champs.

    My issue is that useless fire aura, if only I could detonate it with F5...
    Back to topic, I agree that FGS recharge is far too high.
    120s would be fine, or give an ammunition on conjures.

  • Kirnale.5914Kirnale.5914 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 19, 2019

    The worst part is that you use it in the first battle, then you died midway, teleport back to spawn, join up with the commander and stack until people are gathered and face another zerg after going out of spawn, but FGS is still on CD.

    As far as other classes goes, they might also have long CD elite, but they don't have to use it. They have better choice with shorter CD, but eles have to stick with FGS.

    Edit: talking about WvW

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Razor.6392 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @Razor.6392 said:
    Hellooooooooooo devs? will this ever be fixed? what's the drawback? just go into your code and change the value. It's that easy.

    No one will whine about broken dps or mobility because this ability is not even close to being overpowered. Make it 90-120s cd already.

    You know what's hilarious? Is that all other 180s cd elites HAVE A WAY TO DECREASE THEIR CD THROUGH TRAITS, WE CANT DO THAT FOR CONJURES.

    Yes you can. The trait is worthless though.

    It decreases the abilities cd, not the initial summon cd.

    My mad, i was persuaded it decreased conjures CD. Maybe because I never bothered with them i didnt read it properly.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @Razor.6392 said:
    Hellooooooooooo devs? will this ever be fixed? what's the drawback? just go into your code and change the value. It's that easy.

    No one will whine about broken dps or mobility because this ability is not even close to being overpowered. Make it 90-120s cd already.

    You know what's hilarious? Is that all other 180s cd elites HAVE A WAY TO DECREASE THEIR CD THROUGH TRAITS, WE CANT DO THAT FOR CONJURES.

    Yes you can. The trait is worthless though.

    I do like this trait, although Burning Precision is a serious competitor.
    For my lightning hammer ele, I really appreciate 20% CD on skills. It allows me to proc lightning rod more often (5 to 2, then 3), not to mention lightning storm excellent damage.
    Moreover, it also helps spamming FGS whirlwind when soloing champs.

    My issue is that useless fire aura, if only I could detonate it with F5...
    Back to topic, I agree that FGS recharge is far too high.
    120s would be fine, or give an ammunition on conjures.

    I like frost bow, used it a lot in wvw back in the days. I tried a new build with my core ele in pvp, maybe i should give it a try. 60s CD though, i'd rather have mist form.

  • @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @Razor.6392 said:
    Hellooooooooooo devs? will this ever be fixed? what's the drawback? just go into your code and change the value. It's that easy.

    No one will whine about broken dps or mobility because this ability is not even close to being overpowered. Make it 90-120s cd already.

    You know what's hilarious? Is that all other 180s cd elites HAVE A WAY TO DECREASE THEIR CD THROUGH TRAITS, WE CANT DO THAT FOR CONJURES.

    Yes you can. The trait is worthless though.

    I do like this trait, although Burning Precision is a serious competitor.
    For my lightning hammer ele, I really appreciate 20% CD on skills. It allows me to proc lightning rod more often (5 to 2, then 3), not to mention lightning storm excellent damage.
    Moreover, it also helps spamming FGS whirlwind when soloing champs.

    My issue is that useless fire aura, if only I could detonate it with F5...
    Back to topic, I agree that FGS recharge is far too high.
    120s would be fine, or give an ammunition on conjures.

    I like frost bow, used it a lot in wvw back in the days. I tried a new build with my core ele in pvp, maybe i should give it a try. 60s CD though, i'd rather have mist form.

    My comment is toward open world where you can have permanent conjure (if not stolen). So skills CDR is better than conjure CDR providing you keep your conjure after using its skills.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @Razor.6392 said:
    Hellooooooooooo devs? will this ever be fixed? what's the drawback? just go into your code and change the value. It's that easy.

    No one will whine about broken dps or mobility because this ability is not even close to being overpowered. Make it 90-120s cd already.

    You know what's hilarious? Is that all other 180s cd elites HAVE A WAY TO DECREASE THEIR CD THROUGH TRAITS, WE CANT DO THAT FOR CONJURES.

    Yes you can. The trait is worthless though.

    I do like this trait, although Burning Precision is a serious competitor.
    For my lightning hammer ele, I really appreciate 20% CD on skills. It allows me to proc lightning rod more often (5 to 2, then 3), not to mention lightning storm excellent damage.
    Moreover, it also helps spamming FGS whirlwind when soloing champs.

    My issue is that useless fire aura, if only I could detonate it with F5...
    Back to topic, I agree that FGS recharge is far too high.
    120s would be fine, or give an ammunition on conjures.

    I like frost bow, used it a lot in wvw back in the days. I tried a new build with my core ele in pvp, maybe i should give it a try. 60s CD though, i'd rather have mist form.

    My comment is toward open world where you can have permanent conjure (if not stolen). So skills CDR is better than conjure CDR providing you keep your conjure after using its skills.

    Yeah, i don't think it's viable in spvp, but it's just for the lulz :) i also slot tornado, so i'm definitely not playing meta anyway.

  • @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @Razor.6392 said:
    Hellooooooooooo devs? will this ever be fixed? what's the drawback? just go into your code and change the value. It's that easy.

    No one will whine about broken dps or mobility because this ability is not even close to being overpowered. Make it 90-120s cd already.

    You know what's hilarious? Is that all other 180s cd elites HAVE A WAY TO DECREASE THEIR CD THROUGH TRAITS, WE CANT DO THAT FOR CONJURES.

    Yes you can. The trait is worthless though.

    I do like this trait, although Burning Precision is a serious competitor.
    For my lightning hammer ele, I really appreciate 20% CD on skills. It allows me to proc lightning rod more often (5 to 2, then 3), not to mention lightning storm excellent damage.
    Moreover, it also helps spamming FGS whirlwind when soloing champs.

    My issue is that useless fire aura, if only I could detonate it with F5...
    Back to topic, I agree that FGS recharge is far too high.
    120s would be fine, or give an ammunition on conjures.

    I like frost bow, used it a lot in wvw back in the days. I tried a new build with my core ele in pvp, maybe i should give it a try. 60s CD though, i'd rather have mist form.

    My comment is toward open world where you can have permanent conjure (if not stolen). So skills CDR is better than conjure CDR providing you keep your conjure after using its skills.

    Yeah, i don't think it's viable in spvp, but it's just for the lulz :) i also slot tornado, so i'm definitely not playing meta anyway.

    Haha, I use tornado from times to times too ! With full glass build (fire + air) and Lightning Rod, you can do very good damage if you survive that long, but even if you don't, downed lava font can probably finish the work, unless it is a champ ;) I just realized that traited downed lava font is 10 seconds duration !! 4 more than staff one, I like it !

  • Because you can use the FGS two times for whole minute (each FGS can be wielded for 30 seconds).
    I think It would be much better to shorten the CD, but without an option to pick it up again (or by another player), so you can conjure weapon only for yourself.

    Commander, to ME!

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.