Is anyone experiencing issues with CnD->Steal revealing? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Is anyone experiencing issues with CnD->Steal revealing?

DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited July 22, 2019 in Thief

Normally I can Cnd->Steal into a backstab, but now it seems that CnD->steal is revealing me, is there a change I'm not aware about? I can steal and then backstab but I'm just used to the cnd steal. I emptied all 2 specialisation slots, and just had shadow arts with hidden thief enabled, and when I do my normal CnD->Steal combo I am greeted with "Immune". When I try with a different specialisation line, trickery for example, the "Immune" does not trigger and I can Cnd->steal as normal and do backstab. Does anyone else notice this problem?
A little more info: when I use shadow arts, I have to let CnD gauge past 50-70% before I steal in order not to trigger Immune, but with any other line, I can precast CnD straight into steal.
Ok, interesting, it only seems to happen with hidden thief enabled (on core)

Comments

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Assuming you toon stealth on steal and the cnd is revealing you. Been having no problems my self but I don't take that trait.

  • Exzen.2976Exzen.2976 Member ✭✭

    Hidden thief grants you stealth on steal. You are then revealing yourself by hitting with cloak and dagger :)

    You can either remove hidden thief to use the steal + cloak and dagger combo, or just use steal to grant stealth and then backstab.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2019

    @Exzen.2976 said:
    Hidden thief grants you stealth on steal. You are then revealing yourself by hitting with cloak and dagger :)

    You can either remove hidden thief to use the steal + cloak and dagger combo, or just use steal to grant stealth and then backstab.

    I suppose I should change my old habits then if I consider taking hidden thief. Not really a biggie but just feels weird after this whole time :) since I've been rocking d/d lately
    PS - also another note, since you are technically hitting with cnd, the rending shade does not proc fear during this. Why does cnd count as a hit if it's supposed to stealth you? is this some kind of weird technicality? just curious since steal and cnd are meant to both stealth. Maybe hidden thief should not count cnd as a hit. Is this a new thing because I did not notice it when I was using SA on my d/d set at least a month or two ago.
    What should really be the correct behaviour? [hidden thief/rending shade enabled]
    CnD->steal-> no proc rending shade
    CnD->steal->no reveal until next hit, and procs rending shade
    I think the current behaviour is wrong since it treats cnd as a hit but does not proc rending shade.
    With hidden thief disabled you get the normal cnd behaviour coupled with steal and it procs rending shade as it should. Stealth on CnD and steal (hidden thief) should not conflict (not consistent).

  • Any damage done while stealthed reveals you. CnD does its damage before applying stealth, so that's why you can follow it up with Backstab normally.

    I believe Rending Shade activates only on true "Stealth Attacks" like Backstab. With Hidden Thief you have to just hit Steal and then Backstab, otherwise anything else after steal will just reveal you. If you're close enough, you could combo Heartseeker -> Steal -> Backstab, as long as you don't steal before Heartseeker connects.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2019

    Ok, I think I get the gist of it now, I was missing a key element, mainly that cnd is not a stealth attack category, whilst I kept thinking of "attacks from stealth" in general.
    For anyone that wanted to know, basically this is how it goes (and it makes sense to me now):
    CnD -> steal while cnd gauge still loading, stealth is applied -> CnD connects to enemy, since it is not "stealth attack" category, it does not proc rending shade and is considered a hit, and thus reveals you and the immune message shows when it tries to apply the stealth from the cnd itself. This is why without hidden thief, the normal cnd->steal->etc works.
    Thanks for everyone that helped me understand.

  • You're welcome, buddy! Thief is fun stuff! :smiley:

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ok, one last thing. Why do range weapon stealth attacks not qualify for rending shade? I thought the 180 radius was the fear radius and not the distance you have to be from enemy. This messes up all the ranged weapon to benefit from the trait. If 180 is the range you need to be, then this is only a melee thing. Maybe they should say that in tooltip if this is not a bug.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    Ok, one last thing. Why do range weapon stealth attacks not qualify for rending shade? I thought the 180 radius was the fear radius and not the distance you have to be from enemy. This messes up all the ranged weapon to benefit from the trait. If 180 is the range you need to be, then this is only a melee thing. Maybe they should say that in tooltip if this is not a bug.

    because the center of the effect is your character, not the target that got hit. the fear always triggers yet if you are using the skill on range, it is likely there is noone in your 180 radius.

    also with CnD be careful in keeps/towers. while you can stealth on walls/supply depots/visible and invisible waypoint locations, it wont reveal you as those objects cant be damaged but it will overwrite your stealth stack. it unique in that regard i think, if you have 15s stealth for example and use CnD on a wall you will be left with 3-4s stealth, but with a bit practise and timing you might get to permastealth with d/d there using mostly CnD.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Oh that's a nice tip about walls etc, I never really have thought about them overwriting your current stealth stacks, as I'd use them always before starting my stacks and not during. This behavior is similar to those road banners and the supply mastery that gives swiftness on taking supply, it used to overwrite my swiftness stacks. Not sure if that still happens nowadays since I never checked since having wartclaw.
    So all in all rending shade is useless for ranged weapons and you have to swap to melee and be in range to get the appropriate benefits. Maybe anet can consider adding a mechanism for ranged weapons to benefit from rending shade stealthed attacks.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2019

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    Oh that's a nice tip about walls etc, I never really have thought about them overwriting your current stealth stacks, as I'd use them always before starting my stacks and not during. This behavior is similar to those road banners and the supply mastery that gives swiftness on taking supply, it used to overwrite my swiftness stacks. Not sure if that still happens nowadays since I never checked since having wartclaw.
    So all in all rending shade is useless for ranged weapons and you have to swap to melee and be in range to get the appropriate benefits. Maybe anet can consider adding a mechanism for ranged weapons to benefit from rending shade stealthed attacks.

    You steal boons still and unless pp, it's unlikely someone would take two ranged weapons in kit, Trait ok still.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I've run around with rifle/sbow and rifle/rifle, sbow/sbow before, but you are right, a majority of people wouldn't do that for sure. It would be interesting if they did add something for ranged, it could be some nice added pressure.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    I've run around with rifle/sbow and rifle/rifle, sbow/sbow before, but you are right, a majority of people wouldn't do that for sure. It would be interesting if they did add something for ranged, it could be some nice added pressure.

    technically you can fear someone off a cliff in melee of your character while downing another on range with DJ for example. for me my main issue with the trait is that it steals the boons after the hit wich is not worth it for high hitting stealth attacks like (M.)Backstab or DJ. i didnt test it yet with the changes tho. as the lifesteal is also before the damage hit it might have changed.

  • Xenji.4907Xenji.4907 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2019

    @Zethrul.5031 said:
    If you're close enough, you could combo Heartseeker -> Steal -> Backstab, as long as you don't steal before Heartseeker connects.

    I think they fixed it because it doesn't work anymore.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.