Quickbrand + Alacrity renegade - who is typically the healer? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Quickbrand + Alacrity renegade - who is typically the healer?

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Comments

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 27, 2019

    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2019

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

    If you are running ventari you are not running:

    • dwarv for stability
    • mallyx for boon removal

    If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

    As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

    If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

    If you are running ventari you are not running:

    • dwarv for stability
    • mallyx for boon removal

    If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

    As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

    If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

    And as I said earlier boon removal can be done by warrior. It depends. With quickbrand burst ut might be higer or lower overall damage.
    And stability can be provides by quickbrand.

    I know for a fact that on some bossss in fastest groups warrior dont have time to swap from maces. Not much damage lost there then

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2019

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

    If you are running ventari you are not running:

    • dwarv for stability
    • mallyx for boon removal

    If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

    As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

    If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

    And as I said earlier boon removal can be done by warrior. It depends. With quickbrand burst ut might be higer or lower overall damage.

    Yes, and Spellbreaker is way behind Berskerer in damage. Easy 5-10k, more if he has to actively remove boons.

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    And stability can be provides by quickbrand.

    Not in the same amount as Heal Firebrand and certainly not in the same amount as healfirebrand and support renegade. Absolutely not when providing the damage people are so fond of.

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I know for a fact that on some bossss in fastest groups warrior dont have time to swap from maces. Not much damage lost there then

    Because they use consumables for breakbars and run without healers which reduces the amount of boons which need removal avoiding having to swap to maces.

    This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

    If you are running ventari you are not running:

    • dwarv for stability
    • mallyx for boon removal

    If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

    As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

    If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

    warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

    put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war
    you give up literally nothing

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

    If you are running ventari you are not running:

    • dwarv for stability
    • mallyx for boon removal

    If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

    As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

    If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

    warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

    put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war
    you give up literally nothing

    Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

    If you are running ventari you are not running:

    • dwarv for stability
    • mallyx for boon removal

    If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

    As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

    If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

    warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

    put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war
    you give up literally nothing

    Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

    since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker?

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

    If you are running ventari you are not running:

    • dwarv for stability
    • mallyx for boon removal

    If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

    As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

    If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

    warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

    put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war
    you give up literally nothing

    Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

    since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker?

    No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer?

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

    If you are running ventari you are not running:

    • dwarv for stability
    • mallyx for boon removal

    If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

    As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

    If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

    warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

    put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war
    you give up literally nothing

    Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

    since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker?

    No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer?

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient.

    because i have to follow your rules.

    is it about healer comps, or not.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2019

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

    If you are running ventari you are not running:

    • dwarv for stability
    • mallyx for boon removal

    If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

    As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

    If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

    warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

    put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war
    you give up literally nothing

    Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

    since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker?

    No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer?

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient.

    because i have to follow your rules.

    is it about healer comps, or not.

    Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer.

    If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

    If you are running ventari you are not running:

    • dwarv for stability
    • mallyx for boon removal

    If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

    As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

    If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

    warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

    put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war
    you give up literally nothing

    Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

    since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker?

    No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer?

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient.

    because i have to follow your rules.

    is it about healer comps, or not.

    Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer.

    If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal.

    so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times

    glad i'm in charge of my groups then


    fb alone can stack 1.20 min quickness, there is noit even a reason to play fb just swap dh
    the group was slowed down because of the kitten dps renegade has (nearly half of warrior) sadly, the alacrity is needed. if not for alacrity, renegade has no spot in such comps
    good groups know the value of prestacking, and precasting.
    precasting banners, removing banners taking more useful utilities yes pls
    if you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2019

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

    If you are running ventari you are not running:

    • dwarv for stability
    • mallyx for boon removal

    If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

    As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

    If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

    warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

    put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war
    you give up literally nothing

    Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

    since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker?

    No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer?

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient.

    because i have to follow your rules.

    is it about healer comps, or not.

    Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer.

    If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal.

    so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times

    glad i'm in charge of my groups then

    Strong comeback there. Did not invalidate anything of what I said as far as utility and groups which require healer goes. You are free to build however you want, most PUG groups go with heal Firebrand or no healer at all.

    EDIT:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    if you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong

    You seem to have a very hard concept to understand groups which need healers. No, not every group phases fights in 20 seconds. Those who do and still use a healer are doing it wrong or playing it super safe.

    I'm not going to base my recommendations on personal preconceptions of how much damage I expect people to do because I know many players will do less. I base my recommendations on which composition offers the best benefit and utility versus damage output. I believe I have explained this well enough so far.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

    If you are running ventari you are not running:

    • dwarv for stability
    • mallyx for boon removal

    If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

    As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

    If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

    warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

    put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war
    you give up literally nothing

    Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

    since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker?

    No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer?

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient.

    because i have to follow your rules.

    is it about healer comps, or not.

    Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer.

    If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal.

    so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times

    glad i'm in charge of my groups then

    Strong comeback there. Did not invalidate anything of what I said as far as utility and groups which require healer goes. You are free to build however you want, most PUG groups go with heal Firebrand or no healer at all.

    EDIT:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    if you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong

    You seem to have a very hard concept to understand groups which need healers. No, not every group phases fights in 20 seconds. Those who do and still use a healer are doing it wrong or playing it super safe.

    I'm not going to base my recommendations on personal preconceptions of how much damage I expect people to do because I know many players will do less. I base my recommendations on which composition offers the best benefit and utility versus damage output. I believe I have explained this well enough so far.

    i'm not saying you are wrong, because you aren't. i just despise the explanation to justify it

    stuff like heal scourges (and heal fb's) only exist because some people do not deserve to be in t4/cm's and they get carried hard by it

    put in weight, or we drop some weight (if you know what i mean)

    end-game content is hard and not for everyone

    https://dps.report/rcvZ-20190722-221009_siax

    99cm, second boss. pug run. it's clear that this renegade is absolutly clueless. if it wasn't for the renegade (that took 20k+ damage) this group would not need a healer.

    so we forced a fb into healing, for a diviner renegade who can't even make 5k dps.

    i think this illustrates my pov nice, and why i prefer fb as dps, rather then heal.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    If all you care about is DPS, no matter at what cost, Heal Ren doesn't make sense and you are better of running no heal. If you want proper utility, flexibility superior boon support and healing, heal Ren doesn't make sense either and you are better of running hFB.

    The content is not that hard that you can't still phase bosses just fine at all the crucial points with a heal comp.
    The only noticeable difference is that if something should go wrong now and then, because people aren't machines after all, you can just heal past it and keep going having a good time, instead of wasting time and gg'ing and flaming each other over one little mistake which made the house of cards that is the no heal comp fall over.

    Nobody is contesting the benefits of QB and it's not like I haven't played it myself plenty of times.
    I've just decided from personal experience that those benefits are generally not worth it for daily clears.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    stuff like heal scourges (and heal fb's) only exist because some people do not deserve to be in t4/cm's and they get carried hard by it

    put in weight, or we drop some weight (if you know what i mean)

    end-game content is hard and not for everyone

    Except it's not, you are making it hard for yourself for a minor speed gain and some twisted sense of pride and elitism.

    Comps with a heal FB don't even need to waste time on all the "chrono gg's" to reset CD's to upkeep all the boons, have way smoother, less stressful and more pleasant gameplay and still get through CM's+T4 in about 45 minutes, which for me personally is good enough, especially since the runs are always smooth and fun.

    Even if everybody in the group can pull off no heal fairly easily, hFB is generally just a better time. To say people who run that objectively superior comp (if you consider any metric other than DPS as well), don't "deserve" to play that content is ridiculous.

    If running no heal is where you derive self-worth from then you do you. But don't tell other's who are doing perfectly fine and having fun with the content what they deserve to play or not, it's a quite pitiful look.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    glad i'm in charge of my groups then

    Thankfully, so am I.

    "As you know, those who you once called friends have become enemies." ~Glint

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2019

    I don't get why you argue about the uselessness or usefulnesss of a healer (FB here) when you only give CM for example and guild runs for many of you ? I'm okai we can do them, even in Pug, without healer, it's a fact, but; there are ~20 levels with many situations and instabilities, not only CM, and you can"t have too much faith with others players in PUG.

    It's all good if you all have portals, and vocal, and metabuild with runes of thief rather than scholar, power infuz etc. But the big majority is far from this.
    Add bleeding fire, the 300% in the back, the -30% HP, Vindicators ... may be group deserve a bit more sustain rather than be requested to go back to t3 because of specified conditions ?

    But, yeah sometimes it's the player's fault. Even with 250KP I still see groups that can't pre-buff or can't reflect the orb at Astra, or can't even turn back to avoid fear at Ark, or get OS by the mini-golems; or everything is fine, then it gets bad with others levels : Mai-trin they just run in all directions like chickens, ..., no reflect, no pull, no soulcleave''s summit, no sustain..., Chaos, Siren's reef ...
    Won't be specific about people who can't adapt and just take one skill, like DH the wall ot the stab, Ren the Dwarf legend, or the FB that prefers DPS and let people get dazed, under projectiles, and die, rather than use f2-f3 ...
    There are too many ways, not to wipe necessarily, but to seriously impact the front, the rotations, ... and lose DPS and time, afterall. We kick people one by one to find the rare pearl ?

    Having a healer is not a neccessity, it's a security. It's the spirit; I prefer someone to eraze some little mistakes or lack of coordination/understanding (or lack of skill) than to ragequit or kick every groups I meet, or wait 45 minutes in LFG to "save time" once in fractals.
    Honestly I don't care ; harrier FB, zerk FB, even chrono+FB, chrono+4dps, ... as long as it works currently and I don't wait an eternity to start.

     + no one forces anyone. This is kitten.
    There are many different groups on LFG, if you're a FB you can gear harrier or zerk you'll find your happiness.
    Even Ren, you're harrier /ventari I'm pretty sure your group won't care as your dps is already close to zero, if at least your bring AP (and because there are not many Ren on the market)

  • Does anyone actually have the numbers on how much damage each of these classes do? I've never seen a benchmark for diviner renegade (though my auto tests showed it does 78% of the damage of full berserker), and the last benchmark I saw for power quickbrand was 22.5k DPS.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

    If you are running ventari you are not running:

    • dwarv for stability
    • mallyx for boon removal

    If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

    As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

    If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

    warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

    put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war
    you give up literally nothing

    Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

    since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker?

    No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer?

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient.

    because i have to follow your rules.

    is it about healer comps, or not.

    Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer.

    If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal.

    so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times

    glad i'm in charge of my groups then


    fb alone can stack 1.20 min quickness, there is noit even a reason to play fb just swap dh
    the group was slowed down because of the kitten dps renegade has (nearly half of warrior) sadly, the alacrity is needed. if not for alacrity, renegade has no spot in such comps
    good groups know the value of prestacking, and precasting.
    precasting banners, removing banners taking more useful utilities yes pls
    if you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong

    Sorry man but if u think, alacren has low dps, and it has no place cuz of this it clearly means u have some sort of rotten potato in place of brain.
    U'v heard word META and got to excited about this, but u got no idea what is going on there

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

    If you are running ventari you are not running:

    • dwarv for stability
    • mallyx for boon removal

    If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

    As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

    If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

    warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

    put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war
    you give up literally nothing

    Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

    since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker?

    No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer?

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient.

    because i have to follow your rules.

    is it about healer comps, or not.

    Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer.

    If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal.

    so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times

    glad i'm in charge of my groups then


    fb alone can stack 1.20 min quickness, there is noit even a reason to play fb just swap dh
    the group was slowed down because of the kitten dps renegade has (nearly half of warrior) sadly, the alacrity is needed. if not for alacrity, renegade has no spot in such comps
    good groups know the value of prestacking, and precasting.
    precasting banners, removing banners taking more useful utilities yes pls
    if you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong

    Sorry man but if u think, alacren has low dps, and it has no place cuz of this it clearly means u have some sort of rotten potato in place of brain.
    U'v heard word META and got to excited about this, but u got no idea what is going on there

    It has low dps. As he said without alacrity noone would use him. Also if the player is bad than the dps is even worse

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

    If you are running ventari you are not running:

    • dwarv for stability
    • mallyx for boon removal

    If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

    As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

    If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

    warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

    put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war
    you give up literally nothing

    Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

    since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker?

    No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer?

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient.

    because i have to follow your rules.

    is it about healer comps, or not.

    Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer.

    If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal.

    so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times

    glad i'm in charge of my groups then


    fb alone can stack 1.20 min quickness, there is noit even a reason to play fb just swap dh
    the group was slowed down because of the kitten dps renegade has (nearly half of warrior) sadly, the alacrity is needed. if not for alacrity, renegade has no spot in such comps
    good groups know the value of prestacking, and precasting.
    precasting banners, removing banners taking more useful utilities yes pls
    if you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong

    Sorry man but if u think, alacren has low dps, and it has no place cuz of this it clearly means u have some sort of rotten potato in place of brain.
    U'v heard word META and got to excited about this, but u got no idea what is going on there

    As he said without alacrity noone would use him.

    Ofc. But if anet suddenly made new spec that can share alacrity I doubt it would replace rene.

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • I just checked snowcrows.

    Power Quickbrand: 23.2k DPS
    Alacrity Renegade: 23k DPS

    The numbers for the heal sets isn't listed. Unless there's some drastic new change that hasn't been taken into account, then the two comps are going to be very similar in DPS, no matter which one you take as the healer.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2019

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I just checked snowcrows.

    Power Quickbrand: 23.2k DPS
    Alacrity Renegade: 23k DPS

    The numbers for the heal sets isn't listed. Unless there's some drastic new change that hasn't been taken into account, then the two comps are going to be very similar in DPS, no matter which one you take as the healer.

    burst > sustained damage. only first few numbers matter. any dps build can have 20k+ dps by just autoattacking if you want to have it that way

    yet only weaver, power soulbeast and dragonhunter are taken because of their insane first numbers. with burst i mean 70k+ dps

    big advantage of fb, he can swap dh precast traps, swap fb and have some nice extra damage

    what you also have to take into account. dh and fb benefit from symbols, in an actual scenario fb will provide symbols for dh and vice versa, which is not reflected in a dummy test

    the actual fb dps is way higher then 23k

    also, the bench (snowcrows) uses diviner trinkets (3 of them) which are in fractals not needed due to potion convertion, again increasing fb actual dps not reflected in the benchmark

    same with runes,scholar runes are a dps increase over thief runes in fractals due to potion convertion, the extra precision from thief runes are not needed. and getting 100% flanking in fractals is nearly impossible

  • If you have blatant bias and are just trying to "win" an argument, we're going to notice. We're not stupid. The following line proves it.

    @melandru.3876 said:

    also, the bench (snowcrows) uses diviner trinkets (3 of them) which are in fractals not needed due to potion convertion, again increasing fb actual dps not reflected in the benchmark

    The really big detail that you're leaving out here is that this is also true for alacrigade. Standing with no buffs, a full diviner Alacrigade sits at 88.9% boon duration, which earns about one second of spare time between Orders From Above and when alacrity falls out. However, inside of fractals and using potions, you can swap out the entire diviner armor set for berserker armor, getting 79.53% boon duration. This duration is enough so that alacrity ends out just as Orders From Above comes of cooldown.

    This, among many other factors, is why Alacrigade is also nebulously "way higher than 23k". Now, the idea of "what is true for thee may be true for me" is not some secret doctoral-level philosophy. It's common sense. Any reasonable person should've taken it into consideration that, if the fractal potions let you swap out pieces on Firebrand, it would also let you swap out pieces on Renegade. So, the only conclusion I can come to is that you're not reasonable. You're drumming up whatever you can, regardless of any practicality or truth to what you say, because you're goal here isn't to figure out which one is better.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2019

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    If you have blatant bias and are just trying to "win" an argument, we're going to notice. We're not stupid. The following line proves it.

    @melandru.3876 said:

    also, the bench (snowcrows) uses diviner trinkets (3 of them) which are in fractals not needed due to potion convertion, again increasing fb actual dps not reflected in the benchmark

    The really big detail that you're leaving out here is that this is also true for alacrigade. Standing with no buffs, a full diviner Alacrigade sits at 88.9% boon duration, which earns about one second of spare time between Orders From Above and when alacrity falls out. However, inside of fractals and using potions, you can swap out the entire diviner armor set for berserker armor, getting 79.53% boon duration. This duration is enough so that alacrity ends out just as Orders From Above comes of cooldown.

    This, among many other factors, is why Alacrigade is also nebulously "way higher than 23k". Now, the idea of "what is true for thee may be true for me" is not some secret doctoral-level philosophy. It's common sense. Any reasonable person should've taken it into consideration that, if the fractal potions let you swap out pieces on Firebrand, it would also let you swap out pieces on Renegade. So, the only conclusion I can come to is that you're not reasonable. You're drumming up whatever you can, regardless of any practicality or truth to what you say, because you're goal here isn't to figure out which one is better.

    lol

    the only difference is: an alacnade actually needs the boon duration to upkeep alacrity. fb can go full zerk and still keep quickness up

    but by all means, educate me!

    https://discretize.eu/builds/guardian/hybrid-firebrand

    vs

    https://discretize.eu/builds/revenant/hybrid-renegade

    it seems you theorycraft (and test) better than actual dedicated speedclear guild?, because by the looks of it..you do require near full diviner (1 humble zerker piece on alacnade lol? ye that will sure boost dps by alot)

    on skorvald you run jalis instead of shiro, so rip "dps"
    on mama you run jalis instead of shiro, so rip "dps"

    on no pain no gain, you run malyx instead of shiro, so rip "dps"

    golem test < actual scnerario

    the fb golem test is not even correct, as they said so themselves : ". Epilogue Ashes of the Just should be used but is a DPS loss on the golem." the more allies, the higher the effect. but sincr the test was done alone, it wasn't used. small detail, still valid

    but what would you know right, i now remember you. you are the guy that claimed herald was amongst the best dps because it could grt numbers by only autoattacking compared to dedicated dps classes that require a rotation

    it all makes sense now, then you call me biased...riight

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:
    But really, hFB doesn't lose much at all by providing Quickness. On the contrary, when I don't have to do quickness as hFB, I feel like my slots are wasted on completely redundant skills and Traits which I don't need to keep people alive and topped up.

    Can you expand on this for me a bit? Happened just the other night, I was already set up as Power Quickbrand DPS, and then one of my party switched to Healbrand. Would it have been better for me to swap to pure DPS or was it better that I stay Quickbrand so the other player could just focus on the other boons/heals?

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2019

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:
    But really, hFB doesn't lose much at all by providing Quickness. On the contrary, when I don't have to do quickness as hFB, I feel like my slots are wasted on completely redundant skills and Traits which I don't need to keep people alive and topped up.

    Can you expand on this for me a bit? Happened just the other night, I was already set up as Power Quickbrand DPS, and then one of my party switched to Healbrand. Would it have been better for me to swap to pure DPS or was it better that I stay Quickbrand so the other player could just focus on the other boons/heals?

    Swap.
    Doing Quickness changes pretty much nothing for hFB and at most frees up a Utility Slot for a gimmick like Merciful Intervention which is not needed, as well as Traits for more Tome pages, which keep you in the Tome for too long to cover other boons like Might and Fury with weapon skills, as well as providing more Prot and Regen on Tome Skills, which you already have 100% uptime on as hFB.
    There really isn't any reason not to cover Quickness as Healbrand, so full DPS should have been fine, with a Quickbrand being pure redundancy.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    big advantage of fb, he can swap dh precast traps, swap fb and have some nice extra damage

    And that might be great for single boss speed kills for a fancy YT video, but is completely unpractical in any normal daily clear, with all the setup time of changing around Trait lines, reselecting Utilities (even with templates) and recharging Mantras negating any additional speed you get from faster boss kills over all.

    "As you know, those who you once called friends have become enemies." ~Glint

  • Zlater.6789Zlater.6789 Member ✭✭✭

    Either FB because you need a hard carry and want access to every single boon in the game. Or Ren because FB is not just a better healer, but also a better dps omegalol.

  • @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

    If you are running ventari you are not running:

    • dwarv for stability
    • mallyx for boon removal

    If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

    As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

    If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

    warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

    put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war
    you give up literally nothing

    Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

    since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker?

    No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer?

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient.

    because i have to follow your rules.

    is it about healer comps, or not.

    Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer.

    If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal.

    so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times

    glad i'm in charge of my groups then


    fb alone can stack 1.20 min quickness, there is noit even a reason to play fb just swap dh
    the group was slowed down because of the kitten dps renegade has (nearly half of warrior) sadly, the alacrity is needed. if not for alacrity, renegade has no spot in such comps
    good groups know the value of prestacking, and precasting.
    precasting banners, removing banners taking more useful utilities yes pls
    if you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong

    Sry I thought about it 2 days what I could say about it you guys do alot of thing which nearly all goes back to be able to reset you skills. This has nothing to do what people understand as normal gameplay. You didn't need a healer because the boss wasn't able to do much dmg in such a short time and the main dmg phases didn't even trigger.In fact if I would do something like this in another MMO the admins mouse would hover over the ban button right now. This is not new people complaining about the abusive character of skill reset since the introduced it into fractals with GG.

    I believe what Arena.NET doesn't understand is bosses in fractals have less HP point then the ones in raids but in fractals you also have fractals potions and fractal titles enabling people with to overstack through skill reset is just the one point too much which you have proven. I also say you guys know your classes and mechanic otherwise this couldn't work but its not the same pressure 99% of the other groups go through when doing 99cm.

    Basically you took a challenge mode and turned it into a joke

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2019

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

    If you are running ventari you are not running:

    • dwarv for stability
    • mallyx for boon removal

    If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

    As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

    If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

    warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

    put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war
    you give up literally nothing

    Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

    since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker?

    No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer?

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient.

    because i have to follow your rules.

    is it about healer comps, or not.

    Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer.

    If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal.

    so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times

    glad i'm in charge of my groups then


    fb alone can stack 1.20 min quickness, there is noit even a reason to play fb just swap dh
    the group was slowed down because of the kitten dps renegade has (nearly half of warrior) sadly, the alacrity is needed. if not for alacrity, renegade has no spot in such comps
    good groups know the value of prestacking, and precasting.
    precasting banners, removing banners taking more useful utilities yes pls
    if you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong

    Sry I thought about it 2 days what I could say about it you guys do alot of thing which nearly all goes back to be able to reset you skills. This has nothing to do what people understand as normal gameplay. You didn't need a healer because the boss wasn't able to do much dmg in such a short time and the main dmg phases didn't even trigger.In fact if I would do something like this in another MMO the admins mouse would hover over the ban button right now. This is not new people complaining about the abusive character of skill reset since the introduced it into fractals with GG.

    I believe what Arena.NET doesn't understand is bosses in fractals have less HP point then the ones in raids but in fractals you also have fractals potions and fractal titles enabling people with to overstack through skill reset is just the one point too much which you have proven. I also say you guys know your classes and mechanic otherwise this couldn't work but its not the same pressure 99% of the other groups go through when doing 99cm.

    Basically you took a challenge mode and turned it into a joke

    no GG was used tho, as could be seen

    precasting of banners/traps, then resetting cooldowns with mistlock as is intended by anet, then free to swap builds/utilities as banners last 60 seconds anyway

    a simple fix would be: when you remove a utility from your bar, it also gets removed from play. untill that happrns, this is what you will see

    not like challenge mode, is challenging to start with.
    the real challenge is speedclears

  • @melandru.3876 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

    If you are running ventari you are not running:

    • dwarv for stability
    • mallyx for boon removal

    If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

    As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

    If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

    warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

    put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war
    you give up literally nothing

    Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

    since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker?

    No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer?

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient.

    because i have to follow your rules.

    is it about healer comps, or not.

    Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer.

    If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal.

    so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times

    glad i'm in charge of my groups then


    fb alone can stack 1.20 min quickness, there is noit even a reason to play fb just swap dh
    the group was slowed down because of the kitten dps renegade has (nearly half of warrior) sadly, the alacrity is needed. if not for alacrity, renegade has no spot in such comps
    good groups know the value of prestacking, and precasting.
    precasting banners, removing banners taking more useful utilities yes pls
    if you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong

    Sry I thought about it 2 days what I could say about it you guys do alot of thing which nearly all goes back to be able to reset you skills. This has nothing to do what people understand as normal gameplay. You didn't need a healer because the boss wasn't able to do much dmg in such a short time and the main dmg phases didn't even trigger.In fact if I would do something like this in another MMO the admins mouse would hover over the ban button right now. This is not new people complaining about the abusive character of skill reset since the introduced it into fractals with GG.

    I believe what Arena.NET doesn't understand is bosses in fractals have less HP point then the ones in raids but in fractals you also have fractals potions and fractal titles enabling people with to overstack through skill reset is just the one point too much which you have proven. I also say you guys know your classes and mechanic otherwise this couldn't work but its not the same pressure 99% of the other groups go through when doing 99cm.

    Basically you took a challenge mode and turned it into a joke

    no GG was used tho, as could be seen

    precasting of banners/traps, then resetting cooldowns with mistlock as is intended by anet, then free to swap builds/utilities as banners last 60 seconds anyway

    a simple fix would be: when you remove a utility from your bar, it also gets removed from play. untill that happrns, this is what you will see

    not like challenge mode, is challenging to start with.
    the real challenge is speedclears

    I said that because skill reset were initial a part of GG they moved it then to the mistlock after the mentioned complains about it. A simple fix would be turn GG off and reset the skills when all player dies.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

    If you are running ventari you are not running:

    • dwarv for stability
    • mallyx for boon removal

    If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

    As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

    If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

    warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

    put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war
    you give up literally nothing

    Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

    since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker?

    No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer?

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient.

    because i have to follow your rules.

    is it about healer comps, or not.

    Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer.

    If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal.

    so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times

    glad i'm in charge of my groups then


    fb alone can stack 1.20 min quickness, there is noit even a reason to play fb just swap dh
    the group was slowed down because of the kitten dps renegade has (nearly half of warrior) sadly, the alacrity is needed. if not for alacrity, renegade has no spot in such comps
    good groups know the value of prestacking, and precasting.
    precasting banners, removing banners taking more useful utilities yes pls
    if you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong

    Sry I thought about it 2 days what I could say about it you guys do alot of thing which nearly all goes back to be able to reset you skills. This has nothing to do what people understand as normal gameplay. You didn't need a healer because the boss wasn't able to do much dmg in such a short time and the main dmg phases didn't even trigger.In fact if I would do something like this in another MMO the admins mouse would hover over the ban button right now. This is not new people complaining about the abusive character of skill reset since the introduced it into fractals with GG.

    I believe what Arena.NET doesn't understand is bosses in fractals have less HP point then the ones in raids but in fractals you also have fractals potions and fractal titles enabling people with to overstack through skill reset is just the one point too much which you have proven. I also say you guys know your classes and mechanic otherwise this couldn't work but its not the same pressure 99% of the other groups go through when doing 99cm.

    Basically you took a challenge mode and turned it into a joke

    no GG was used tho, as could be seen

    precasting of banners/traps, then resetting cooldowns with mistlock as is intended by anet, then free to swap builds/utilities as banners last 60 seconds anyway

    a simple fix would be: when you remove a utility from your bar, it also gets removed from play. untill that happrns, this is what you will see

    not like challenge mode, is challenging to start with.
    the real challenge is speedclears

    I said that because skill reset were initial a part of GG they moved it then to the mistlock after the mentioned complains about it. A simple fix would be turn GG off and reset the skills when all player dies.

    infact dps could be alor faster if what you said happened. imagine the weaver casting fgs, then everyone gg's and repeat untill everyone has a fgs.
    5 precasted fgs on top of the innitial burst, a bit overkill but sure fun.

  • @melandru.3876 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

    power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

    power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

    divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

    what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.
    quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

    I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.
    Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

    See what I did there?

    If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

    If you are running ventari you are not running:

    • dwarv for stability
    • mallyx for boon removal

    If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

    As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

    If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

    warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

    put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war
    you give up literally nothing

    Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

    since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker?

    No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer?

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient.

    because i have to follow your rules.

    is it about healer comps, or not.

    Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer.

    If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal.

    so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times

    glad i'm in charge of my groups then


    fb alone can stack 1.20 min quickness, there is noit even a reason to play fb just swap dh
    the group was slowed down because of the kitten dps renegade has (nearly half of warrior) sadly, the alacrity is needed. if not for alacrity, renegade has no spot in such comps
    good groups know the value of prestacking, and precasting.
    precasting banners, removing banners taking more useful utilities yes pls
    if you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong

    Sry I thought about it 2 days what I could say about it you guys do alot of thing which nearly all goes back to be able to reset you skills. This has nothing to do what people understand as normal gameplay. You didn't need a healer because the boss wasn't able to do much dmg in such a short time and the main dmg phases didn't even trigger.In fact if I would do something like this in another MMO the admins mouse would hover over the ban button right now. This is not new people complaining about the abusive character of skill reset since the introduced it into fractals with GG.

    I believe what Arena.NET doesn't understand is bosses in fractals have less HP point then the ones in raids but in fractals you also have fractals potions and fractal titles enabling people with to overstack through skill reset is just the one point too much which you have proven. I also say you guys know your classes and mechanic otherwise this couldn't work but its not the same pressure 99% of the other groups go through when doing 99cm.

    Basically you took a challenge mode and turned it into a joke

    no GG was used tho, as could be seen

    precasting of banners/traps, then resetting cooldowns with mistlock as is intended by anet, then free to swap builds/utilities as banners last 60 seconds anyway

    a simple fix would be: when you remove a utility from your bar, it also gets removed from play. untill that happrns, this is what you will see

    not like challenge mode, is challenging to start with.
    the real challenge is speedclears

    I said that because skill reset were initial a part of GG they moved it then to the mistlock after the mentioned complains about it. A simple fix would be turn GG off and reset the skills when all player dies.

    infact dps could be alor faster if what you said happened. imagine the weaver casting fgs, then everyone gg's and repeat untill everyone has a fgs.
    5 precasted fgs on top of the innitial burst, a bit overkill but sure fun.

    Yes this was the way GG was the only different is you must now stay /have the spawn point in front of a mistlock. In theory you could GG still allow in down state but isn't their some potions which gives your poison could they move a level 80 character into down state ?

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