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Quickbrand + Alacrity renegade - who is typically the healer?


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Hi guys. For fractals: I want to make a support build and I'm looking at the current meta. I see support quickbrand with berserker gear and support renegade with diviner gear. Neither of these look like healer support builds. How does this team composition work? Does either the quickbrand or the diviner need to swap gear and build to provide heals? Do they both provide mediocre heals that add up to one good healer?

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@sokeenoppa.5384 said:Good group won't need healer, and those classes bring some sustain for group already, however if you need healer usually its renegade.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:In fractals the firebrand is the healer.

Well you both can't be right :wink:

@ OP - I play Power Quickbrand, and I'm usually paired up with a Druid or Renegade for heals, though sometimes a Healbrand. I believe you can play either as a DPS support. I don't believe either is required to be healer support.

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@sokeenoppa.5384 said:Good group won't need healer, and those classes bring some sustain for group already, however if you need healer usually its renegade.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:In fractals the firebrand is the healer.

Well you both can't be right :wink:

@ OP - I play Power Quickbrand, and I'm usually paired up with a Druid or Renegade for heals, though sometimes a Healbrand. I believe you can play either as a DPS support. I don't believe either is required to be healer support.

Yeah. I think The actual right answer is that both can Be healers. I just find more rene healers, perhaps coz my friends play mostly raids and atleast we use rene there as heal instead of firebrand.

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@sokeenoppa.5384 said:

@sokeenoppa.5384 said:Good group won't need healer, and those classes bring some sustain for group already, however if you need healer usually its renegade.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:In fractals the firebrand is the healer.

Well you both can't be right :wink:

@ OP - I play Power Quickbrand, and I'm usually paired up with a Druid or Renegade for heals, though sometimes a Healbrand. I believe you can play either as a DPS support. I don't believe either is required to be healer support.

Yeah. I think The actual right answer is that both can Be healers. I just find more rene healers, perhaps coz my friends play mostly raids and atleast we use rene there as heal instead of firebrand.

I wonder if perhaps it wasn't just an evolution? I started playing Quickbrand when ANET gutted Chrono (not this patch, or the last one, the 3rd gutting ago) and I found most T4 pugs just made do with no Alacrity so long as Quickness uptime was there. Healers were still typical Druids. But then Druids got gutted (not last patch, a few patches ago) and I think the higher end Fractal community proved that an Alacrity Renegade + Quickness FB was a better combo than the now gutted Druid/Chrono.

So it kinda makes sense that there were a lot of Quickbrands running around with Power/Diviner stats, whereas before you hardly ever saw a Renegade in T4s, so they just geared up as healers. That's my guess anyways :)

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@sokeenoppa.5384 said:Good group won't need healer, and those classes bring some sustain for group already, however if you need healer usually its renegade.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:In fractals the firebrand is the healer.

Well you both can't be right :wink:

@ OP - I play Power Quickbrand, and I'm usually paired up with a Druid or Renegade for heals, though sometimes a Healbrand. I believe you can play either as a DPS support. I don't believe either is required to be healer support.

Yeah. I think The actual right answer is that both can Be healers. I just find more rene healers, perhaps coz my friends play mostly raids and atleast we use rene there as heal instead of firebrand.

I wonder if perhaps it wasn't just an evolution? I started playing Quickbrand when ANET gutted Chrono (not this patch, or the last one, the 3rd gutting ago) and I found most T4 pugs just made do with no Alacrity so long as Quickness uptime was there. Healers were still typical Druids. But then Druids got gutted (not last patch, a few patches ago) and I think the higher end Fractal community proved that an Alacrity Renegade + Quickness FB was a better combo than the now gutted Druid/Chrono.

So it kinda makes sense that there were a lot of Quickbrands running around with Power/Diviner stats, whereas before you hardly ever saw a Renegade in T4s, so they just geared up as healers. That's my guess anyways :)

Thats a pretty solid theory.

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I don't raid. The last several times I was in fractals, the healers were always Firebrands or Druids. Never once was it renegade.

From a logical standpoint, this makes sense. The biggest issue with heal renegades is that their heals are focused in narrow areas and are anchored to the tablet. Heal Firebrand is much more mobile, and heals in a wider area. Also, Heal Firebrand provides a lot of aegis, regeneration, and they can provide stability. Renegade just gives out alacrity and might no matter what build you use. This makes firebrand much more useful than renegade for healing in fractals.

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I don't raid. The last several times I was in fractals, the healers were always Firebrands or Druids. Never once was it renegade.

From a logical standpoint, this makes sense. The biggest issue with heal renegades is that their heals are focused in narrow areas and are anchored to the tablet. Heal Firebrand is much more mobile, and heals in a wider area. Also, Heal Firebrand provides a lot of aegis, regeneration, and they can provide stability. Renegade just gives out alacrity and might no matter what build you use. This makes firebrand much more useful than renegade for healing in fractals.

Quickbrand offers those same boons, Even If not healer.

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@sokeenoppa.5384 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I don't raid. The last several times I was in fractals, the healers were always Firebrands or Druids. Never once was it renegade.

From a logical standpoint, this makes sense. The biggest issue with heal renegades is that their heals are focused in narrow areas and are anchored to the tablet. Heal Firebrand is much more mobile, and heals in a wider area. Also, Heal Firebrand provides a lot of aegis, regeneration, and they can provide stability. Renegade just gives out alacrity and might no matter what build you use. This makes firebrand much more useful than renegade for healing in fractals.

Quickbrand offers those same boons, Even If not healer.

Not really. The healbrand setup uses the shield, and includes a using all of the buff skills in f2 and f3 tomes. Power Quickbrand uses DPS utilities and weapons instead. Sure, there is some aegis, but not to the degree that healbrand puts out.

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I don't raid. The last several times I was in fractals, the healers were always Firebrands or Druids. Never once was it renegade.

From a logical standpoint, this makes sense. The biggest issue with heal renegades is that their heals are focused in narrow areas and are anchored to the tablet. Heal Firebrand is much more mobile, and heals in a wider area. Also, Heal Firebrand provides a lot of aegis, regeneration, and they can provide stability. Renegade just gives out alacrity and might no matter what build you use. This makes firebrand much more useful than renegade for healing in fractals.

And good bunch of fury (dps firebrand provides the missing 40%) and swiftness if you use Pack runes.

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The evolution of Firebrigade (with healer) is simple, initially it was run as heal renegade and quickbrand simply because the alacrigrade did almost no damage. This changed 2 patches ago when renegade damage was buffed.

Pro groups run no heal and power quickbrand and power alacrigrade.

The benefits of running heal firebrand and support renegade are as follows:

  • heal firebrand is a lot easier to play compared to heal renegade simply because it is not as area restricted
  • heal firebrand can replace Feel my Wrath for Mantra of Liberation versus the power quickbrand who relies on FMW for quickness and fury uptime
  • support alacrigrade is flexible in which legends he uses unlike the heal renegade who is using ventari. This is a benefit because the alacrigrade can use Mallyx for boon removal, Dwarv for stability, Ventari for the reflect bubble all the while running Kalla as main legend
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Hybrid renegade and firebrand when in exp groups.Healbrand in pugs. I find most renegade healers have no idea how there healing works. Healbrand offers a much larger repetoire of utilities to fill the void chronos have left behind.Druid chrono in pugs is lol.

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If one needs to be a healer, renegads is always better choice.reason is that quickbrand provide very high burst and ok dps. Renegade provides no burst and very bad dps.With heal renegade there is no reason to die (but you need to actualy atack and stack). Power quickbrand have same utility options as healing version.

Thag beeing said healing firebrand is better to carry atrocious players because his heals doesnt require them to atack and burst doesnt matter since phases will take hour anyway.

Depends on what you are looking for and what your enviroment is like

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Well both classes can be the healer pretty effectively. The most important thing is to communicate with your group. When you join, coordinate, make sure you only have 1 healer etc.

Additionally, renegade's soul cleave summit is still pretty potent without any healing gear. And with the firebrand pumping out frequent aegis, not every group needs a healer. It should be noted, this is largely reliant on the group having high enough dps to kill everything before healing becomes an issue.

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:If one needs to be a healer, renegads is always better choice.reason is that quickbrand provide very high burst and ok dps. Renegade provides no burst and very bad dps.

While the renegeade is a very potent healer, the two main limiting factors to it are:

  • it's energy mechanic, which can get dicy when things go sour
  • it's healing tablet

Yes, in an ideal world power quickbrand would be the damage dealer in the healer comp (right after no healer setup), but the reality is, both healers stacked up against each other: heal firebrand comes out on top easy.

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:With heal renegade there is no reason to die (but you need to actualy atack and stack). Power quickbrand have same utility options as healing version.

There is never a reason to die. We are talking groups who need a healer though and stacking is not always given or easy. I had a 150KP Warrior wander off on me during Volcanic and Swamp T4 yesterday constanly demanding babysitting while I was running heal Firebrand in a PUG group. On heal rengeade I would have just left group.

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Thag beeing said healing firebrand is better to carry atrocious players because his heals doesnt require them to atack and burst doesnt matter since phases will take hour anyway.

I wouldn't go as far as calling player atrocious, but yes, heal firebrand is a lot more forgiving. The other benefits I've already mentioned up top. I personally value the flexibility in the heal fb+ren composition over the higher damage in the heal ren+fb composition.

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Renegade provides no burst and very bad dps.

While fb has better dps and burst, ren doesn't have no burst. You can still get to 60-70k+ if you know what you are doing.Heal ren doesn't provide regen which is quite a big hit to healing also. If you survive with a heal ren you will probably survive with a diviner ren because the diviner ren could offer dps or way better utility.

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@Nephalem.8921 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Renegade provides no burst and very bad dps.

While fb has better dps and burst, ren doesn't have no burst. You can still get to 60-70k+ if you know what you are doing.Heal ren doesn't provide regen which is quite a big hit to healing also. If you survive with a heal ren you will probably survive with a diviner ren because the diviner ren could offer dps or way better utility.

when you use multihit spell in SS you are back to full. No regen needed :D

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@Nephalem.8921 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Renegade provides no burst and very bad dps.

While fb has better dps and burst, ren doesn't have no burst. You can still get to 60-70k+ if you know what you are doing.Heal ren doesn't provide regen which is quite a big hit to healing also. If you survive with a heal ren you will probably survive with a diviner ren because the diviner ren could offer dps or way better utility.

Well, I would certainly love to see that.From my perspective renegade is limited by energy so If you go for very high burst you lose some damage modifiers for the party

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Renegade provides no burst and very bad dps.

While fb has better dps and burst, ren doesn't have no burst. You can still get to 60-70k+ if you know what you are doing.Heal ren doesn't provide regen which is quite a big hit to healing also. If you survive with a heal ren you will probably survive with a diviner ren because the diviner ren could offer dps or way better utility.

Well, I would certainly love to see that.From my perspective renegade is limited by energy so If you go for very high burst you lose some damage modifiers for the party

Soulcleave summits dps potential is not that big. It helps with scholar and during longer phases for sure but it doesn't scale with modifiers. A ren bursting hard at skorvald for example is more overall dps than using kalla. Highly depends on fight length and party scholar uptime though.

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:when you use multihit spell in SS you are back to full. No regen needed :D

A healing ren is also not needed for that.

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The problem with using Firebrand as a healer is that you'll generally want most of your slots to be dedicated to buffs, mostly Quickness. This is different from Renegade, who for example has Alacrity in the F# keys/Ventari, or from Druid, whose heal skills are a weapon and a transform.

I mean, you'll get some good milage out of the tome, but.

This means that for the most part, Firebrand is better off as a support DPS with some complimentary healing and not the dedicated healer, while the other two aren't optimal at DPS and are better to take as a dedicated healer because not as much will be lost from it.

That said Firebrand when fully geared for healing arguably has the most healing utility out of all the elites.


The real answer is that alot of classes can do this, if a healer is needed, usually any of them will be fine, because it is not the healer's job to keep the group buffed, or to do damage to the enemy--so the number of effective classes and builds could be significant.

Its just that sometimes these roles are combined, due to very specific possibilities, to eliminate the need for a 2nd support.

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@Hannelore.8153 said:The problem with using Firebrand as a healer is that you'll generally want most of your slots to be dedicated to buffs, mostly Quickness. This is different from Renegade, who for example has Alacrity in the F# keys, or from Druid, whose heal skills are a weapon and a transform.

Renegade is limited by energy, which is way more difficult to work with than dedicating your utility skills to your job: that of a healer. (which by the way, the renegade is too since he commits to at least 1 legend when healer so your argument is already faulty). As far as druid, bring a soulbeast if you want druid buffs with a Firebrand healer. Can you say the same for a similar amount of aegis and stability for Druid?

Renegade runs into issues of keeping up alacrity when pressured to hard. Firebrand simply runs out of utility skills (but can pull tomes) but will provide constant quickness.

@Hannelore.8153 said:I mean, you'll get some good milage out of the tome, but.

You don't use tomes for general healing. Those are hard oh shit buttons. If you are using tomes for healing during encouters, you are doing it wrong or your group is terrible. When I run CMs as heal firebrand (if not running without healer) the only places I pull tomes are: Tome 3, skill 4 at Arkk at the start of the fight. That's it.

Axe or Sword (for fury) with shield, staff or mace as second set. Heal mantra, quickness mantra and elite mantra leaves you with 2 free utility slots for more support.

Staff 2 and staff 4 will keep the group up between providing aegis every 5-6 seconds. Shield 4 for additional aegis when switching to provide fury. Shield 5 as projectile destruction, minor cc and additional heal when triggered a second time.

@Hannelore.8153 said:This means that for the most part, Firebrand is better off as a support DPS with some complimentary healing and not the dedicated healer, while the other two aren't optimal at DPS and are better to take as a dedicated healer because not as much will be lost from it.

Did you even bother to read what I wrote? Renegade loses free access to legends. That is not some minor loss. If renegade is not providing boon removal, some one else in the party has to take that. If renegade does not provide stability with dwarv, someone else has to (and quickbrand doesn't provide nearly as well stability as heal fb). Finally power alacrigrade can still drop Kalla elite if he notices the group is having issues (say when being slow on 99CM 2nd boss and the FB is kiting poison).

EDIT:

@Hannelore.8153 said:The real answer is that alot of classes can do this, if a healer is needed, usually any of them will be fine, because it is not the healer's job to keep the group buffed, or to do damage to the enemy--so the number of effective classes and builds could be significant.

Its just that sometimes these roles are combined, due to very specific possibilities, to eliminate the need for a 2nd support.

This is nonsense. Role compression in this game is a major factor WHY certain healers are prefered and used in party setups. It's the reason why tempest healers (which are insanely strong) or scrapper healers are not nearly used as much as druid, firebrand or renegade in pve.

To simply go: well every class can heal, it's not their job to buff is strait up not understand how groups are built and designed in this game.

This reminds me of the rengeade healer we once had in fractals. He literally was only a healer with 0 boon support. I didn't even say anything, the other 3 people booted the person out faster than I could literally write: say again?

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Ren has to switch legs all the time to be effective like malyx (boon strip) or jalis (stab) and running heal means you're locked into ventari. Besides fb can heal way more consistently while giving a crap ton of boons.In the end a group that puts safety ahead of dps shouldnt really care if they lose some dps over picking fb instead of ren for heals, i mean ren heal is quite clumsy, Kalla consumes a lot of energy and tablet can be hit or miss depending on the group. Meanwhile heal fb just steamrolls any content.

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@Safandula.8723 said:

@zoomborg.9462 said:and running heal means you're locked into ventari.

not true. u can do some healing just from staff, but u get a lot of healing from kalla as well. if u camp ventari only u play rene wrong. i can agree tho, that being forced to boonstrip or share stab, handicap ur healing

True, but if you are not running Ventari, your advantage of healing power compared to the heal firebrand flips strong towards the heal firebrand in both output as well as convenience and application.

The problem here is simple (and based in how revenant is designed):

  • heal firebrand becomes directly better in boon support and utility compared to his power counterpart (at the cost of damage, literally nothing else)
  • heal renegade becomes worse in terms of boons and utility compared to his power counterpart (with less a damage loss compared to guardian)

That's on top of the ease of use of mantras and aegis healing versus legend swapping and tablet.

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