Engineers need a big hug and a lot of love - A suggestion thread — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Engineers need a big hug and a lot of love - A suggestion thread

Mesis.2951Mesis.2951 Member ✭✭

Greetings,
I will be joining into a discussion as an unsatisfied engi player. I have mained engi ever since the launch. I always considered engi as a somewhat similiar class to WoW vanilla druid - jack of all traits and master of none.

I think we should break down core mechanics of the class first.
Mechanics
- Tool Belt
- Weapon Kits
- No Weapon Swap
- Versatility
- Cooldown based resource

I think at this point engineer should probably be completly overhauled, both the core and elite spec.
Overhauling the whole class is certainly a huge task but I will try to pitch in some ideas.

Tool Belt
I think it is quite odd that the tool belt skills are tied your skills, after all they are skills on your belt which should not require a connection to their equivalent skills.
So my suggestion would be to allow us to chose which skills to put on our tool belt freely. I believe this would greatly increase build diversity and allow for more interesting tool belt skills to be added not themed around any skills.

Weapons Kits
I am somewhat mixed on this mechanic.
On one hand it allows engineers to have up to 5 additional weapons to offset the lack of weapon swap and is the core of the piano gameplay problem/boon
On the other hand we have a tiny, almost nonexistent pool of weapons becouse of it and no weapon swap
It also doesnt help that the kits have no visual progression

I honestly dont know what to so with kits, an option could be to remove them from the skill set and place them in a weapon category and give engineers a no cd weapon swap

Scrapper
Function gyro in the current form is not a good mechanic in my opinion. I was thinking how to make scrapper interesting and I think I might have found a solution.

The answer is Scrapper only resource - Scrap. This resource would be gained by damaging enemies, reflecting projectiles, blocking etc. Pieces of Scrap could "drop" on the ground and by walking over them or a Scrappers friend - A function gyro - would try to pick them up

Function gyro would also replace F5 slots however the effect of F5 button could be modified. Either several variations of the skill, similiar to the non restrictive tool belt idea suggestion above - these skills could be the current skill gyro´s all baked into that 1 button,. The drawback would be that you could chose only 1 gyro, the solution to that could be in a traitline or a skill that would allow you to swap the currently chosen gyro in combat.

Now what would be the Scrap used for?
Since core engi is cooldown based, I was thinking that all tool belt skills could have a scrap cost, allowing them to ignore cooldowns for a price. Lets say 1 scrap = 1 sec of cooldown

Holosmith
I dont like the theme of Holosmith and Holo Forge but I really enjoy the heat mechanic I think the spec is in the right direction .
Holo Forge is sadly just a glorified Weapon Kit
Currently heat is quite limited, doesnt interact with a lot of skills and there are no abilities that even use heat to lower it. I would love to see more heat interaction with all the abilities and changes to Holo Forge, preferably a mode that would modify the current weapon/kit you are holding instead the current generic skill set.

On additional note, since engineers lack a weapon choice, I would love to see all the elite spec weapons - hammer and sword integrated into core set. Obviously with Elite spec these weapons could have additional functionality.

Thank you for taking a time reading this,
Mesis

Comments

  • Mesis.2951Mesis.2951 Member ✭✭
    edited August 5, 2019

    Reading through my post again and I am quite happy with the suggestions although I should have worded some things better.

    I read some concerns that the changes would alienate the players but I don't think that would be the case.
    The core aspects of "bruiser" and "glasscannon" could be easily kept, after all it is the traits that mostly define the spec.

    When I was lvling in gw2 my build consisted of rifle, rifle turret, grenade and mine kit and mortar. I quite loved the build since it allowed me to to solo far harder enemies than I should have been able to thanks to the long preparation (5-10 lvls higher,including champions)
    This build fulfilled my fantasy and sold me engi

    Turrets
    Now I feel the turrets were quite neglected, I wish they were not a simple drop and forget button. Compared to necro's minions their main disadvantage is obviously being immobile so positioning is very important.

    I wouldn't put turrets into "minion" class skill but rather into an "AoE" category.

    My vision for turrets would be to give them ammo.
    For example:
    Rifle turret would have 15 ammo and each shot costs 1, The automatic fire would fire a burst of 3 shots.
    The "pick up" turrets F button would instead replenish the ammo count and the turrets would explode 5 seconds after they run out of ammo or after 1 minute of not being resupplied.

    Turrets in general should scale on players stats such as toughness and vitality

    Tool kit
    Tool kit would synergize with this playstyle, in addition to repairing turrets (which should probably be higher and scale with healing power), it would also boost the damage of the next attack the turret uses and reduce the cooldown of its active ability.

    It should also probably be renamed to Repair Kit as that would fit the function far better.

    Proximity Mine
    As you might have noticed I liked the Mine Kit and would love for it to return.

    The mines would work on charges similar to the battering ram with the maximum you can have placed at any given time.

    So what mines could be added?
    Proximity mine - the current one
    Shrapnel mine - Bleed and cripple (Charr racial)
    Echo mine - Daze and confusion
    Magnetic mine - Slow and Torment

    Tool belt minefield should get a set pattern or be layed down behind the Engi similar to Slick shoes.

    I am interested in the community opinion so let your feedback be heard.

    I really miss the old mortar too ;-;

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yes they need massive nerfs I agree.

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • Dediggefedde.4961Dediggefedde.4961 Member ✭✭✭
    • I play healscrapper with clerics. This works very well in a zerg. Damage-dampener is a great defensive trait, so I can even use applied force.
    • I don't think core is supposed to be a jack of all trades. There was a time where it had the highest build diversity. This went as far as merging builds would still be viable. However, group supporter was only really added as a role with the medikit/mdf patches. dual-damage was only viable for a short while and not providing much team support. I also liked the time, where core was best at dealing condi damage, while holo was mostly power-based.
    • In principle I don't care about the role of core if there is a role that makes it favorable. supporters still go scrapper for gyros/superspeed, damage (condi, power, burst/SD) and utility (mobility, tagging, focus) all go holosmith. Some condi/power builds also go scrapper.

    Aside from this, I agree with your points. ^^

  • Hoodie.1045Hoodie.1045 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Now that ArenaNet is headed in the direction of elite specializations having actual trade offs, I believe the toolbelt is where they should focus on. The kits are what make core engineer, the piano playstyle that requires lots of skill rotations and cooldowns to memorize in order to be good especially in end game content. Scrapper and Holosmith don't really benefit from using kits other than a few selections, such as the elixir gun for support Scrapper builds and the grenade and bomb kit for power Holosmith builds.

    With that in mind, I was thinking; what if core engineer was the only one with access to kits? As in, if you equip an elite specialization, you don't get kits on your toolbelt. Instead of having a toolbelt skill from a kit, the kits are the toolbelt skills. So the grenade kit can be your F2, the elixir gun your F3, the tool kit your F4 and so on. I know this will nerf certain builds like support Scrapper not having access to the elixir gun or Holosmith not having access to the grenade and bomb kit in PvE, but whether people think it's a good or a bad idea, it's still something worth thinking about.

    Karras

  • Thokketh.7594Thokketh.7594 Member ✭✭
    edited July 23, 2019

    I am of the mind set that scrapper and holosmith's roles need swapped. Especially after the recent patch. And Core Engi Needs buff/rework.

    • Naming/thematic wise. Scrapper sounds like it should destroy things. Holosmith sounds like it should make strong (but temporary) defenses, aka Generate barrier, and protection or Aegis.

    Scrapper
    If scrapper got a DPS increase it would be in a great place right now for glass cannon.

    • Function Gyro- Keep current interation but add a 20% attack speed boost and 15% cool down reduction (a weaker version of quickness + alacrity) while you have super speed. (superspeed is not really useful in PvE, superspeed should feel like the class mechanic for scrapper imo. Might be unbalanced in pvp but I don't have a lot of experience there.)
    • Impact Savant- should have lower barrier gen off damage (to like 10% or maybe lower) but make it also work with condi damage as well. and remove the -3k hp. (or keep the -3k if you want to make sure its GLASS)
    • Shredder Gyro- Maybe swap the damage of laser-disk and shredder gyro. (shredder should have more)
    • Bulwark Gyro- Change into a condi damage Gyro (preferably burning).

    Holosmith
    Holosmith would need more work to change than scrapper. But still not Much.

    • Photon Forge- Make it into a support/barrier generation kit. (keep penalties for overheating... maybe not the tool belt one, but might still be fine if its not a DPS focused specialization)
    • Thermal Release Valve- Make it grant barrier instead of burning.
    • laser's Edge- Make it increase barrier generation (to you and allies) based on heat instead.
    • Photonic Blasting Module- Change to explode barrier to allies instead of the Hit damage. Used for emergency barrier generation. (or change to something else Defense oriented.)
    • Laser-Disk- Maybe swap the Damage of laser-disk and shredder gyro. (shredder should have more)

    To make Photon Forge more of a support Kit.

    • Light Strike- lower its damage by a bit but make it1 also generate barrier like how weaver's sword auto in water does. but keeps its current animations and number of attacks. (1st and 2nd attacks generate personal barrier at a minor amount. 3rd hit generates allies barrier at an increased amount.) Traited would make the ranged projectile generate the barrier around both you and the enemy.
    • Holo-leap- make the area of its pad larger.
    • Corona Burst- Increase its Cooldown, but make it give stability to you and allies per attack (un-traited) and generate barrier for yourself AND allies as well when traited.
    • Photon Blitz- Change into Holographic Shockwave but at a reduced radius and not auto crit. And reduce its heat generation to 15% instead of 25%
    • Holographic Shockwave- Moved to #4, fill slot with the new #5 which would be a longer cooldown, large radius, 10 person. single stack of aegis and 3 seconds of protection. (for those very timed and clutch saves)

    Core Engi
    Core engi needs buffed, But I can't really tell you in what direction it should head. So I have some general buffs for things with no goal Archetype in mind. Imo the traits are good for the most part. I think abilities might just need number tweaked. There is One addition that should be added onto Core engi and one DRASTIC change that I think would be good. But would completely change how the class played.

    Pistol
    * Make it focus more on condi damage, instead of hybrid damage.

    Shield
    * Magnetic Shield- Increase area to scrapper's Defense Field size, to make up for scrapper losing bulwark gyro.

    Addition
    * Mace/Axe- give core engi a main-hand melee weapon to pair with shield. Mace if its power based, Axe if its Condi based. (I would personally prefer a Power mace over condi axe.)

    DRASTIC CHANGE
    This will completely change/remove a playstyle (Piano) of engi. I think it would be worth it but I know many others won't.

    • Profession Mechanic- Make kits the f5. Make selecting your kit drastically change what the engi does. But buff kits across the board. End goal is a viable build per kit. Trade off of Elite specs is not being able to pick different kits. (might have to make function gyro for scrapper into a kit somehow, or just make function gyro remove the kit, but buff function gyro then)
    • F5- make the previous f5 abilities into their own skills.
  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The only thing that would accomplish is kitten off and alienate whatever engies that are left liking the elites for what they where sold on.

    Just deciding that the names doesnt thematically fit so we flip everything is about as reasonable as claiming to make a tank by forcing it to go berserker.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭

    Here is my list of bad ideas:

    Increase damage absorption rate of Watchful Eye to 50 % or higher.
    Increase number of targets a Gyro effects to 10, when traited with Gyroscopic Acceleration.

    Make AED a single strike mantra. Increase the cast time to activate the buff. Remove the timer for the buff. Nerf the base heal to 9k, but let it scale with overhit-damage (= the damage you receive beyond 0 HP).

    Modify MDF to work with Barrier and HP (input & output).

    Make the -Vitality from Impact Savant scale with the amount of Gyros used (= on skillbar). Every Gyro costs 100 vitality, Function Gyro included. In terms of purity of purpose, we share our health with our summons. Apply this mechanic to all classes which can use minions/summons/banners.

  • santenal.1054santenal.1054 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2019

    Making suggestions to the people currently in charge of balancing is pretty pointless. We (all?) know this, yet it is always tempting to do.

    The best thing that can be done for class balance is to let it be balanced by people (proven top level PVP players) with alot of integrety, theorycrafting/testing experience and a passion for the class they balance.

    A way to encourage that those new people in charge would maintain integrety could be to pay them for their work a sum of money relative to the rating their work gets from the community at the end of a year. (eg. 100€*x²=payout with x ranging from 0 to 10)

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭

    @Thokketh.7594 said:

    • Naming/thematic wise. Scrapper sounds like it should destroy things. Holosmith sounds like it should make strong (but temporary) defenses, aka Generate barrier, and protection or Aegis.

    This is just conjecture but I believe when they called it scrapper they had something similar to Rocky Balboa in mind- the fighter that gets his face turned into hamburger but stays in the fight and goes the distance because he's got heart. Not that it matters. Bunkers, or people gearing and trying to play that way, just lose by attrition to powercreeped glass builds in this game.

  • Mesis.2951Mesis.2951 Member ✭✭
    edited August 5, 2019

    Reading through my post again and I am quite happy with the suggestions although I should have worded some things better.

    I read some concerns that the changes would alienate the players but I don't think that would be the case.
    The core aspects of "bruiser" and "glasscannon" could be easily kept, after all it is the traits that mostly define the spec.

    When I was lvling in gw2 my build consisted of rifle, rifle turret, grenade and mine kit and mortar. I quite loved the build since it allowed me to to solo far harder enemies than I should have been able to thanks to the long preparation (5-10 lvls higher,including champions)
    This build fulfilled my fantasy and sold me engi

    Turrets
    Now I feel the turrets were quite neglected, I wish they were not a simple drop and forget button. Compared to necro's minions their main disadvantage is obviously being immobile so positioning is very important.

    I wouldn't put turrets into "minion" class skill but rather into an "AoE" category.

    My vision for turrets would be to give them ammo.
    For example:
    Rifle turret would have 15 ammo and each shot costs 1, The automatic fire would fire a burst of 3 shots.
    The "pick up" turrets F button would instead replenish the ammo count and the turrets would explode 5 seconds after they run out of ammo or after 1 minute of not being resupplied.

    Turrets in general should scale on players stats such as toughness and vitality

    Tool kit
    Tool kit would synergize with this playstyle, in addition to repairing turrets (which should probably be higher and scale with healing power), it would also boost the damage of the next attack the turret uses and reduce the cooldown of its active ability.

    It should also probably be renamed to Repair Kit as that would fit the function far better.

    Proximity Mine
    As you might have noticed I liked the Mine Kit and would love for it to return.

    The mines would work on charges similar to the battering ram with the maximum you can have placed at any given time.

    So what mines could be added?
    Proximity mine - the current one
    Shrapnel mine - Bleed and cripple (Charr racial)
    Echo mine - Daze and confusion
    Magnetic mine - Slow and Torment

    Tool belt minefield should get a set pattern or be layed down behind the Engi similar to Slick shoes.

    I am interested in the community opinion so let your feedback be heard.

    I really miss the old mortar too ;-;

  • cgMatt.5162cgMatt.5162 Member ✭✭✭

    Core engi needs some love, damage/range buff Grenade Kit. Previously it used to be the go-to damage kit, now it's not even worth using in PvP/WvW anymore. Even playing an off meta condi build, Flamethrower is better.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cgMatt.5162 said:
    Core engi needs some love, damage/range buff Grenade Kit. Previously it used to be the go-to damage kit, now it's not even worth using in PvP/WvW anymore. Even playing an off meta condi build, Flamethrower is better.

    The grenade kit is one of those things where "complicated" design (ie throwing grenades out at decent chucking speed and having them land and do individual AoE damage) doesnt work at all in WvW and it will never work as it is. There is a reason why everyone plays staff scourge in zergs.

    I'm not sure you want Anet to get the idea to change the kit though.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • cgMatt.5162cgMatt.5162 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    The grenade kit is one of those things where "complicated" design (ie throwing grenades out at decent chucking speed and having them land and do individual AoE damage) doesnt work at all in WvW and it will never work as it is. There is a reason why everyone plays staff scourge in zergs.

    I'm not sure you want Anet to get the idea to change the kit though.

    I was thinking about small scale, not for zerging tbh. It does not work for zerging because they are projectiles (except for Poison Grenade because it is unblockable) and projectile hate from what is currently in the meta. This is the same with Mortar kit which could alternatively use the buff. But again, thinking about small scale, not for zerg sized fights where you would need to be more careful of the condis applied and projectile destruction.

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cgMatt.5162 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    The grenade kit is one of those things where "complicated" design (ie throwing grenades out at decent chucking speed and having them land and do individual AoE damage) doesnt work at all in WvW and it will never work as it is. There is a reason why everyone plays staff scourge in zergs.

    I'm not sure you want Anet to get the idea to change the kit though.

    I was thinking about small scale, not for zerging tbh. It does not work for zerging because they are projectiles (except for Poison Grenade because it is unblockable) and projectile hate from what is currently in the meta. This is the same with Mortar kit which could alternatively use the buff. But again, thinking about small scale, not for zerg sized fights where you would need to be more careful of the condis applied and projectile destruction.

    Actually, aside from the projectile hate, the reason it doesn't work is retaliation. See:

    This video was from forever ago, but nothing has really changed in regards to grenades since then. This is the exact situation where grenades should be good, but they're not even usable. You take so much retaliation damage you have to stop attacking. Never mind the fact that they don't really do great dps to begin with and you're better off slamming CoR's and Phase Smashes from that range, or meteors or scourge puddles.

  • And yet the Grenade Kit was the go-to ability in PvP for a very long time. It still saw play in that game mode (and not only that one) after the range nerf and the Incendiary Powder trait line switch. So while it may not have been ideal for zerg purposes it was deemed good enough for one of the most demanding game modes.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2019

    @Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:
    And yet the Grenade Kit was the go-to ability in PvP for a very long time. It still saw play in that game mode (and not only that one) after the range nerf and the Incendiary Powder trait line switch. So while it may not have been ideal for zerg purposes it was deemed good enough for one of the most demanding game modes.

    PvP has never been demanding, its literally just bunkering on points by design. Stuff like the grenade kit is easier to use when the enemy cant move outside a 3m radius circle or they loose. WvW doesnt have that restriction.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Elmo Benchwarmer.3025Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2019

    Contrary to common belief, keeping a node contested does not imply suiciding on it. Even in this stage of the game there are very few if any builds that can tank unscathed and without off-node kiting the raw damage output of 1 or 2 DPS classes.

    And at any rate, setting up a Grenade Barrage burst was slightly more challenging than, say, landing your IP procs under the cover of a Sneak Gyro.

  • Samug.6512Samug.6512 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2019

    I like the OP's idea to re-make turrets into ammo skills. This would allow more interactions with Toolkit, easier balance, bigger range of gameplay types and more possibilities of various traits. sth like:
    Rifle turret - 3 ammo, each use rapidly fires 5 projectiles
    Rocket turret - 3 ammo, fires a rocket that applies vulnerability
    Flame turret - 2 ammo, burst of flames that applies burning
    Thumper turret - 2 ammo, AoE knock-down.
    Heal turret - don't you dare touching my heal turret. It's a perfect ability.
    Obviously toolbelt skills would need a reworks. Each ability is a channel, quite long ammo recharge skills that are speed up by auto-attacking with Toolkit. Firearms could get a new grandmaster trait that increases ammo count, inventions turret trait could be reworked to modify how turrets work (swap power turrets to condi turrets, make them apply boons...). Supply crate gets a major rework, no ideas for it.

    [NUKE]

  • Karnn.4569Karnn.4569 Member ✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    Soo after playing as artillery engie which is my main thing cause its fun and involves skill to place shots with the mortar due to drop. Can we get a mortar turret like an automated one? shoots with a good arc on it and does aoe like rocket turret maybe a fire aoe? This would be super fun to have for defending in WvW Also ammo turrets so placement of more than 1 of the same type making turret builds more useful 2 net turrets lol! "I would never!" and more durability on them is needed for sure. I get engineer turret farming has always been a problem these changes wont fix that but necro has been doing this forever too so its kinda meh at this point.
    This should be a trait give up overcharging turrets to place multiple of the same instead.

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    I'm sick of kits. I'm sick of them being utter rubbish and good for little more than being stepping stones for leveling. Sick of turrets too because they also suck. We have bomb kit and that sucks. We don't need to waste bar slots on individual bombs that also suck- most of which don't even provide useful fields for blasting. But here we are.

    I want to do away with the jack of all trades designation because it's stupid. It's the gaming equivalent of trying to please everyone. Being a jack of all trades usually means you please no one, you don't do anything particularly well or even passable anymore compared to other professions, and in the end who ends up feeling used up and burnt out? You do. To hell with that.

    I want to see a return of the Rifleman Engineer. I want fifteen hundred range on the rifle baseline. I want the Firearms line to actually enhance Firearms -specifically the rifle. I want back increased shot speed if traited for. I want rifle to be a go-to power weapon that actually scales well off of... I don't know... Power?. I want Pistols to be less of a joke. Pistol auto needs to be considered an explosion for one. I want weapon swap and main hand mace for core as an alternative power weapon for melee for use with shield.

    Turrets at a minimum should be ground target deployable again. With all the other idiocy going around today with power creep and all the ranged options every profession now has there should be no problem dealing with them.

    But in the end this doesn't matter because this is guild wars two - and the usual answer to any concern in these forums tends to be this:

  • SnowMochi.7602SnowMochi.7602 Member ✭✭✭

    @Iozeph.5617 said:
    I'm sick of kits. I'm sick of them being utter rubbish and good for little more than being stepping stones for leveling. Sick of turrets too because they also suck. We have bomb kit and that sucks. We don't need to waste bar slots on individual bombs that also suck- most of which don't even provide useful fields for blasting. But here we are.

    I want to do away with the jack of all trades designation because it's stupid. It's the gaming equivalent of trying to please everyone. Being a jack of all trades usually means you please no one, you don't do anything particularly well or even passable anymore compared to other professions, and in the end who ends up feeling used up and burnt out? You do. To hell with that.

    I want to see a return of the Rifleman Engineer. I want fifteen hundred range on the rifle baseline. I want the Firearms line to actually enhance Firearms -specifically the rifle. I want back increased shot speed if traited for. I want rifle to be a go-to power weapon that actually scales well off of... I don't know... Power?. I want Pistols to be less of a joke. Pistol auto needs to be considered an explosion for one. I want weapon swap and main hand mace for core as an alternative power weapon for melee for use with shield.

    Turrets at a minimum should be ground target deployable again. With all the other idiocy going around today with power creep and all the ranged options every profession now has there should be no problem dealing with them.

    But in the end this doesn't matter because this is guild wars two - and the usual answer to any concern in these forums tends to be this:

    You've basically covered much of what I'd also like to see.

    “I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”
    **― Dr. Seuss **

  • If anything the rifle range should be nerfed across the bord and the Rifled Barrels trait reintroduced.

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭

    @Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:
    If anything the rifle range should be nerfed across the bord and the Rifled Barrels trait reintroduced.

    Why? It's a rifle. Not to be pedantic here but it's rifled to begin with. It's not a musket, or even a blunderbuss. Why make us pay to have better/equal range with the rifle via a precious trait slot when it isn't going to make thief rifle ranges appreciably lower? That's just going to put us, as well as players who run rifles on other professions, even more at the mercy of mesmers, rangers, elementalists, rev etc. But that's just my opinion.

    Unless, that is, you're talking about normalising all ranged abilities across the board.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Iozeph.5617 said:
    Why? It's a rifle. Not to be pedantic here but it's rifled to begin with. It's not a musket, or even a blunderbuss.

    Not to be pedantic either but it literally has a skill called blunderbuss.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Because limitations are a good thing. You should have to give up some perks in order to gain others. Creating overloaded abilities and making others baseline got us exactly where we are now: massive powercreep followed by penalty traits in hope to even the odds somehow.

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Iozeph.5617 said:
    Why? It's a rifle. Not to be pedantic here but it's rifled to begin with. It's not a musket, or even a blunderbuss.

    Not to be pedantic either but it literally has a skill called blunderbuss.

    So which is it then? Because it's being called a rifle. Or is this just the sort of stupid generalities used by people who make a game and don;t know what they're talking about?

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭

    @Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:
    Because limitations are a good thing. You should have to give up some perks in order to gain others. Creating overloaded abilities and making others baseline got us exactly where we are now: massive powercreep followed by penalty traits in hope to even the odds somehow.

    Don't have a problem with limitations. I have a problem with core being gutted to tone down the performance of elites rather than Elites being prudently crafted around the foundation line without doing harm to them.

    I'd say we got here more because devs probably took what, to them at least, seemed to be the most expedient method of solving a problem- the rationale probably being, 'Scrapper/Holo/whatever is going to be so much more awesome than core- why should anybody care if we repeatedly chop out functionality there instead of the actual problem spec lines? Nobody's going to be playing those anyway, right?' Which is why we have a core profession that's been left so far behind while we have two elite specs which, in spite of repeated nerfing, are still whinged about for being overdone for competitive play.

    I wouldn't mind seeing rifle range knocked down but only if everybody's range -that is, every single weapon on every single profession is knocked down into the same boring gutter of twelve hundred or even one thousand range. But even then that's a bad idea because if you normalise range in such a fashion you're going to see certain professions- mesmers, ele, rev etc. will still diminate via front loading from those ranges due just to the mechanics of how their weapons are implemented. In the end normalising hurts more because we've lost so much sustain at the ranges where we're allegedly supposed to be fighting all the time(Short to medium).

    If we don't have a way to have at least one weapon that affords us some sort of range advantage (not mortar) or just parity then we're going to be stuck in the same rut. Fifteen hundred range baseline on rifle isn't too much to ask, but that's just me.

    As an addendum to the stuff about Blunderbuss - There's plenty of guns on the market that offer shifts between rifle ammunition, shotgun ammunition, and some that also offer use of black powder on the same platform- a couple examples-

    https://www.tcarms.com/firearms/interchangeable-platforms/encore-pro-hunter

    https://www.rossiusa.com/whatsnew-trifecta.cfm

    The limiting factor being that these are kept to single shot because they accomplish this flexibility via a barrel change and so don't rely on magazine. In the end I wish ANet would have made up their mind and explained just exactly what it is we're using, or even that they should have gone the extra distance and made Shotgun or Blunderbuss a distinct weapon type instead of bodging everything erroneously under one label as they've done. It's only screwed us into the corner were in now.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Iozeph.5617 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Iozeph.5617 said:
    Why? It's a rifle. Not to be pedantic here but it's rifled to begin with. It's not a musket, or even a blunderbuss.

    Not to be pedantic either but it literally has a skill called blunderbuss.

    So which is it then? Because it's being called a rifle. Or is this just the sort of stupid generalities used by people who make a game and don;t know what they're talking about?

    Yes, it's being called a rifle. Just like a certain mesmer weapon is called a greatsword but is it used like one?

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2019

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Iozeph.5617 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Iozeph.5617 said:
    Why? It's a rifle. Not to be pedantic here but it's rifled to begin with. It's not a musket, or even a blunderbuss.

    Not to be pedantic either but it literally has a skill called blunderbuss.

    So which is it then? Because it's being called a rifle. Or is this just the sort of stupid generalities used by people who make a game and don;t know what they're talking about?

    Yes, it's being called a rifle. Just like a certain mesmer weapon is called a greatsword but is it used like one?

    I see. So now we're claiming that Engineers are magic-based? Because that's the rationale behind Mesmer greatsword. If that's so, then the state of Engineer is an even more depressing affair because it just confirms that even when given such opportunity we still manage to end up with the worst implementations possible for our profession. What are we supposed to be then Tyria's comic relief?

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2019

    @Iozeph.5617 said:
    So now we're claiming that Engineers are magic-based?

    No, we're claiming that the rifle isnt really a rifle. Or are you claming that rifles being able to shoot into the ground and make you fly with no ill effect is normal?

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭

    So if it's not a rifle, if it isn't a shotgun, and if it isn't a bazooka from TF2(which is used to jump in a similar fashion) then the only alternative is that it's a joke - which makes it right at home in the hands of an Engineer. Glad we've got that out of the way.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Iozeph.5617 said:
    So if it's not a rifle, if it isn't a shotgun, and if it isn't a bazooka from TF2(which is used to jump in a similar fashion) then the only alternative is that it's a joke - which makes it right at home in the hands of an Engineer. Glad we've got that out of the way.

    See, now you get it. And when you want tp take it to the next level, you equip confetti shooting pistols.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 10, 2019

    I still have some pop gun skins from winter's day. Or super adventure pistol skins. But most of the comedy from playing these weapons is completely unintended.

  • Matoro.9708Matoro.9708 Member ✭✭✭

    @Samug.6512 said:
    I like the OP's idea to re-make turrets into ammo skills. This would allow more interactions with Toolkit, easier balance, bigger range of gameplay types and more possibilities of various traits. sth like:
    Rifle turret - 3 ammo, each use rapidly fires 5 projectiles
    Rocket turret - 3 ammo, fires a rocket that applies vulnerability
    Flame turret - 2 ammo, burst of flames that applies burning
    Thumper turret - 2 ammo, AoE knock-down.
    Heal turret - don't you dare touching my heal turret. It's a perfect ability.
    Obviously toolbelt skills would need a reworks. Each ability is a channel, quite long ammo recharge skills that are speed up by auto-attacking with Toolkit. Firearms could get a new grandmaster trait that increases ammo count, inventions turret trait could be reworked to modify how turrets work (swap power turrets to condi turrets, make them apply boons...). Supply crate gets a major rework, no ideas for it.

    I also really like it. One could go as far to remove auto attacks to really make them active, skill based utilities, and only use their ammo skills. OP's suggestion feels too passive still and just a nerf to uptime.

    Supply crate either gets replaced with a new turret (better version of Deployable Mortar Kit? Which is now a turret btw) or buffs current turrets.

    We would ideally want some sort of ammo replenishment system. And heal turret would have 1 ammo, for 'cleansing burst' or something new, but the aoe regen should probably stay - sort of its thing. I would pool it into new turret traits.

    The more I think about it, the more I want this system - it feels like a big step forward. It solves a lot of problems, lets scaling stats be predictable in effect, hurts AFKers - and already feels cohesive with gadget ammo skills. I think this is really a strong move for the devs.

    Society either needs a turret rework or to free bobby schmurda and I wonder which comes first?

  • I think overheat mechanic should be reworked in complete other way.

    Blast Module could lock all holo's skills (but only spec skills like Laser Disc and Prime Light Beam). Reaching heat treshold could unlock your skills and heat could be lost only by using these skills (e.g. Prime Light Beam -50%). Your holo skills would be powered by Photon Forge's heat.

    Commander, to ME!

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