Forgottens were chained up? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Forgottens were chained up?

crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

I was looking at some screenshots of forgottens when replying to another lore thread, and i noticed, the death branded forgottens are... in shackles???
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/1/15/Death-Branded_Hessper_Sasso.jpg

then i looked at GW1's screenshots of forgottens, there are these 'shackle marks' on their wrists
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Forgotten_light.jpg

am I missing something while reading the lores? that forgotten were a race that got enslaved???

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Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭

Comments

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not as far as we know - although it's possible that some were taken prisoner by Margonites.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As a race? No, they were not enslaved. In all honesty, I don't think those are "shackle marks" on the GW1 models.

    Given that the Forgotten were knowingly doing something that could result in them becoming Branded, it's highly possible that they had took precautions to try to bind themselves should their attempt to cleanse Kralkatorrik fail, among which was binding their arms.

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  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2019

    this attempt to "clean" kralkattorik is still a very misterious subject, how they tried this, and why its failed.

    "It's a testament to the folly of the humans and their gods. They say Arah was sacred, but all I see is one big dragon nest."(Rytlock Brimstone)

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Given that the Forgotten were knowingly doing something that could result in them becoming Branded, it's highly possible that they had took precautions to try to bind themselves should their attempt to cleanse Kralkatorrik fail, among which was binding their arms.

    that... doesnt make much of a sense to me, if they chain themselves up, how they do whatever their waving hand things during the ritual?
    Kalk can easily break the chains after branding them, so the point?

    and if was information, they should sew up their mouth maybe?
    but there's no point anyway since both Kalk and Glint were capable of mind reading, they can just squeeze out information that way


    As a race? No, they were not enslaved. In all honesty, I don't think those are "shackle marks" on the GW1 models.

    ok, so if we waved it aside as graphic limitation at the time in GW1, Balthazaar's doing ? to extract info on how to create the Forged?

    to me, it just feels too convenient to be at the same spot, and the statue of forgottens at Lair of the Forgotten Waypoint in GW2 is not wearing any ornaments at all
    the artistic team put so much effort of making such minor detail, doesnt make sense that it would be missing from the statues

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2019

    The top picture - are those 2nd pair of arms actually bound together as well? The top pair seem broken apart

    it's an interesting pick up - is it all branded forgotten or just that one?

    I just checked up close in GW1. def no chains or shackles or marks to indicate them

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • @Randulf.7614 said:
    The top picture - are those 2nd pair of arms actually bound together as well? The top pair seem broken apart

    it's an interesting pick up - is it all branded forgotten or just that one?

    I just checked up close in GW1. def no chains or shackles or marks to indicate them

    The lower set of arms do appear to be bound. There looks to be an intact chain between the shackles when zooming in close enough.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @crepuscular.9047 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Given that the Forgotten were knowingly doing something that could result in them becoming Branded, it's highly possible that they had took precautions to try to bind themselves should their attempt to cleanse Kralkatorrik fail, among which was binding their arms.

    that... doesnt make much of a sense to me, if they chain themselves up, how they do whatever their waving hand things during the ritual?
    Kalk can easily break the chains after branding them, so the point?

    and if was information, they should sew up their mouth maybe?
    but there's no point anyway since both Kalk and Glint were capable of mind reading, they can just squeeze out information that way

    Maybe they didn't need to do wide-armed hand waving for the ritual (Warden Ilyra doesn't in Arah iirc, and it was likely the same ritual more or less), and there'd be no clear way to know that their branded selves could break the chains nor would Kralkatorrik care about it.

    And I never said anything about information, since all dragon minions share a hive mind with their Elder Dragon - Kralkatorrik doesn't read minds, btw, no more than Zhaitan or Jormag did.

    As a race? No, they were not enslaved. In all honesty, I don't think those are "shackle marks" on the GW1 models.

    ok, so if we waved it aside as graphic limitation at the time in GW1, Balthazaar's doing ? to extract info on how to create the Forged?

    to me, it just feels too convenient to be at the same spot, and the statue of forgottens at Lair of the Forgotten Waypoint in GW2 is not wearing any ornaments at all
    the artistic team put so much effort of making such minor detail, doesnt make sense that it would be missing from the statues

    Wasn't really meaning graphic limitations - just that a mark of lighter skin doesn't necessarily mean chaffing or scarring of the tissue. The second Forgotten model in GW1 has no such markings, for example.

    The Forgotten were wiped out before Balthazar showed up.

    Another alternative could be that all Forgotten we see are technically Death-Branded, and chaining up the dead is a Forgotten ritual for some reason.

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  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think the ritual seems likely, although it could just be symbolic to represent they are now enslaved by corruption.

    I do think it's a great spot though. It's a shame we didn't spot it earlier so we could ask a dev about it, but I doubt they will notice this thread now

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NanoEliteSixSixSix.8935 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    The top picture - are those 2nd pair of arms actually bound together as well? The top pair seem broken apart

    it's an interesting pick up - is it all branded forgotten or just that one?

    I just checked up close in GW1. def no chains or shackles or marks to indicate them

    The lower set of arms do appear to be bound. There looks to be an intact chain between the shackles when zooming in close enough.

    I believe they aren't. One of their casting animations involves them spreading their arms, and while I may be wrong, I remember the lower pair being involved as well.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In Gw1 the Forgotten were last seen in the Realm of Torment which is essentially a part of the mists that more or less functions as a hell dimension that was used as a prison for the fallen god Abaddon, his supporters and beings of evil such as demons etc.

    The Forgotten served as wardens in this realm until Abaddon and his minions were able to pretty much take it over.
    While I don't think it's confirmed in the lore it's likely that many Forgotten were imprisoned during the years before Abaddon was destroyed.
    That could explain why some of them have broken shackles in Gw2.. perhaps when alive some Forgotten continued to wear them by choice as a reminder or something.
    Or they could be made from the same chains that once bound Abaddon, chains which were forged by Balthazar.. which would likely make them really hard to remove or destroy.

    That's just speculation though.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    In Gw1 the Forgotten were last seen in the Realm of Torment which is essentially a part of the mists that more or less functions as a hell dimension that was used as a prison for the fallen god Abaddon, his supporters and beings of evil such as demons etc.

    The Forgotten served as wardens in this realm until Abaddon and his minions were able to pretty much take it over.
    While I don't think it's confirmed in the lore it's likely that many Forgotten were imprisoned during the years before Abaddon was destroyed.
    That could explain why some of them have broken shackles in Gw2.. perhaps when alive some Forgotten continued to wear them by choice as a reminder or something.
    Or they could be made from the same chains that once bound Abaddon, chains which were forged by Balthazar.. which would likely make them really hard to remove or destroy.

    That's just speculation though.

    The Forgotten in the Mists and those in the Crystal Desert appear to be two separate groups. All the names of Forgotten that show up in GW2 are of Crystal Desert Forgotten, not a single one from the Realm of Torment.

    But some Forgotten were imprisoned by the Margonites, as it is the objective of the Foundry of Failed Creations quest to find and free a unit of Forgotten. Though it wasn't a universal imprisonment, more of a back-and-forth war since the Margonites and demons broke free of their prisons.

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  • @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

    @NanoEliteSixSixSix.8935 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    The top picture - are those 2nd pair of arms actually bound together as well? The top pair seem broken apart

    it's an interesting pick up - is it all branded forgotten or just that one?

    I just checked up close in GW1. def no chains or shackles or marks to indicate them

    The lower set of arms do appear to be bound. There looks to be an intact chain between the shackles when zooming in close enough.

    I believe they aren't. One of their casting animations involves them spreading their arms, and while I may be wrong, I remember the lower pair being involved as well.

    Perhaps it's only for certain models, then, because the one in the picture linked in the OP definitely looks like there's a looped chain running between his lower arm shackles instead of hanging free like his upper arms. I'll have to take a look at some other branded Forgotten for comparison when I get a chance.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 27, 2019

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    In Gw1 the Forgotten were last seen in the Realm of Torment which is essentially a part of the mists that more or less functions as a hell dimension that was used as a prison for the fallen god Abaddon, his supporters and beings of evil such as demons etc.

    The Forgotten served as wardens in this realm until Abaddon and his minions were able to pretty much take it over.
    While I don't think it's confirmed in the lore it's likely that many Forgotten were imprisoned during the years before Abaddon was destroyed.
    That could explain why some of them have broken shackles in Gw2.. perhaps when alive some Forgotten continued to wear them by choice as a reminder or something.
    Or they could be made from the same chains that once bound Abaddon, chains which were forged by Balthazar.. which would likely make them really hard to remove or destroy.

    That's just speculation though.

    The Forgotten in the Mists and those in the Crystal Desert appear to be two separate groups. All the names of Forgotten that show up in GW2 are of Crystal Desert Forgotten, not a single one from the Realm of Torment.

    But some Forgotten were imprisoned by the Margonites, as it is the objective of the Foundry of Failed Creations quest to find and free a unit of Forgotten. Though it wasn't a universal imprisonment, more of a back-and-forth war since the Margonites and demons broke free of their prisons.

    Yes.. that's true.
    I'm curious if the groups ever interacted though specially after Gw1 with so much going on like the God's leaving and Glint's legacy coming to fruition despite the Brotherhood of the Dragon falling apart.
    The Gate of Torment isn't all that far from the Crystal Desert either and there are Forgotten statues etc about the Desolation so there's definitely potential for unknown events there.

    What's also interesting is that Forgotten appear to be 1 of 2 desert races so far that seem to have some resistence to Dragon Corruption, the other being Djinn.
    Curiously both of them are 4 armed beings with an affinity for magic, both of them are ancient races and also curiously.. both races appear to be wearing broken chains/shackles.
    I wonder if we're overlooking something as simple as a fashion trend for species of.. quadrupeds? tetrapods?.. not sure what to class them as lol, Is there even a word to define 4 arms?.. not sure.
    Or maybe Joko and his takeover of the region is responsible for it.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Strictly speaking, Joko doesn't seem to have exercised a formal claim over Forgotten territory. The Forgotten had already largely been driven out of the Desolation (the Lair of the Forgotten was the last holdouts in Nightfall), and all of the places that were really important to them are north of the Bone Wall. Given that Joko implied he knew more about the nature of dragons than the Pact Commander before becoming Palawa Scrumptious Snacko, it's possible that he knew better than to attack the Forgotten. He may even have had some kind of enemy-of-my-enemy agreement with them before they were Branded.

  • Ototo.3214Ototo.3214 Member ✭✭✭

    Isn't there a part in Bastion of the Penitant that implies some Forgotten were imprisoned there? Probably not correlated but felt I should mention it.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There's an object which describes a pile of prisoner uniform that "wouldn't fit a bipedal person". But no indication how many prisoners there would be, or if it was for Forgotten rather than krait or even snake people for that matter.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Clothes_Pile

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  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NanoEliteSixSixSix.8935 said:

    @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

    @NanoEliteSixSixSix.8935 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    The top picture - are those 2nd pair of arms actually bound together as well? The top pair seem broken apart

    it's an interesting pick up - is it all branded forgotten or just that one?

    I just checked up close in GW1. def no chains or shackles or marks to indicate them

    The lower set of arms do appear to be bound. There looks to be an intact chain between the shackles when zooming in close enough.

    I believe they aren't. One of their casting animations involves them spreading their arms, and while I may be wrong, I remember the lower pair being involved as well.

    Perhaps it's only for certain models, then, because the one in the picture linked in the OP definitely looks like there's a looped chain running between his lower arm shackles instead of hanging free like his upper arms. I'll have to take a look at some other branded Forgotten for comparison when I get a chance.

    I would assume animations of certain skills would be common across all forgottens, like channeling

    Looking at Ysshi in this video at 720p, looks like the lower pair is bounded during channeling

    I think the Branded Forgotten Priest at Dragonfall have that 'spasm attack' may be unique animation, will need to do DF to verify

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    There's an object which describes a pile of prisoner uniform that "wouldn't fit a bipedal person". But no indication how many prisoners there would be, or if it was for Forgotten rather than krait or even snake people for that matter.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Clothes_Pile

    could be a demon with more than 2 legs too, but who knows...

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
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