UX - Legendary Runes - This needs to go back to the drawing board — Guild Wars 2 Forums

UX - Legendary Runes - This needs to go back to the drawing board

Looking at the UI for the legendary runes and how to pick them, they need to seriously overhaul this before it gets released. The UX for this is going to be absolutely terrible if you have to scroll through all of the options. Why not utilize the PvP design where you break it down by category and can actually search for the rune/stat?

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Comments

  • Nomad.4301Nomad.4301 Member ✭✭

    The UI is probably like this because apparently changing anything UI related in this game's engine takes a LOT of work, it's one of the (many) reasons why Swiss style tournaments and WvW restructuring is taking so long.

    Think of trying to change this game's UI like trying to pick a single strand of spaghettini out of a mountain of regular spaghetti. Yeah.

  • Nomad.4301Nomad.4301 Member ✭✭
    edited July 25, 2019

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Nomad.4301 said:
    The UI is probably like this because apparently changing anything UI related in this game's engine takes a LOT of work, it's one of the (many) reasons why Swiss style tournaments and WvW restructuring is taking so long.

    Think of trying to change this game's UI like trying to pick a single strand of spaghettini out of a mountain of regular spaghetti. Yeah.

    That excuse is incredibly tired.

    Not trying to defend Anet here; the UI is awful, but it's Anet's own excuse as they've literally said in the past that UI changes take a lot of time and effort to pull off, even the seemingly simple ones like adding 1 new skill to the Warclaw that's taken them 3+months at this point because they're waiting on "UI changes".

    It's pretty common knowledge at this point that the Gw2 engine is likely one of the oldest and most poorly optimized engines still actively used in the industry (Bethesda might have them beat) and a big limitation on what they can actually do in the game specifically regarding the UI depends directly on the engine and how hard it is to change the code they wrote over 7 years ago (longer if you consider this is a modified Gw1 engine). So something as simple as adding a search bar could potentially take some poor dude 250 hours to do because they had to literally re-write half of their 7 year old back-end legacy code to do it.

    Yes it is terrible design, but all I'm saying is it might not be terrible by choice.

  • Magnus Godrik.5841Magnus Godrik.5841 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Dont we have to scroll thru every stat in legendary anything. A simple search bar would be nice for all things legendary. Mind blown kapow

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well once you have selected one you know where it is and thanks to the green text you can scroll there even if you don't.

    Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2019

    Honestly, I don't understand how someone has concluded this is the actual UI that's going to be in the game ...

    It is clunky looking but until I use it, I will reserve judgement.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If you dont realize by now that anet does often release exactly what they show in screenshots...

    It looks clunky as hell, much like the other UIS they have for things like transferring or removing upgrades.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:
    Dont we have to scroll thru every stat in legendary anything. A simple search bar would be nice for all things legendary. Mind blown

    Except there are three times the amount of runes compared to armor stats.

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Maybe, for players that know which Rune they want, since they are alphabetical, it won't be that long to scroll to the appropriate place in the list.

  • lukejoe.1592lukejoe.1592 Member ✭✭

    @Nomad.4301 said:

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Nomad.4301 said:
    The UI is probably like this because apparently changing anything UI related in this game's engine takes a LOT of work, it's one of the (many) reasons why Swiss style tournaments and WvW restructuring is taking so long.

    Think of trying to change this game's UI like trying to pick a single strand of spaghettini out of a mountain of regular spaghetti. Yeah.

    That excuse is incredibly tired.

    Not trying to defend Anet here; the UI is awful, but it's Anet's own excuse as they've literally said in the past that UI changes take a lot of time and effort to pull off, even the seemingly simple ones like adding 1 new skill to the Warclaw that's taken them 3+months at this point because they're waiting on "UI changes".

    It's pretty common knowledge at this point that the Gw2 engine is likely one of the oldest and most poorly optimized engines still actively used in the industry (Bethesda might have them beat) and a big limitation on what they can actually do in the game specifically regarding the UI depends directly on the engine and how hard it is to change the code they wrote over 7 years ago (longer if you consider this is a modified Gw1 engine). So something as simple as adding a search bar could potentially take some poor dude 250 hours to do because they had to literally re-write half of their 7 year old back-end legacy code to do it.

    Yes it is terrible design, but all I'm saying is it might not be terrible by choice.

    I don't buy that at all. There are clearly components IN THE GAME for this.

  • @lukejoe.1592 said:

    @Nomad.4301 said:

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Nomad.4301 said:
    The UI is probably like this because apparently changing anything UI related in this game's engine takes a LOT of work, it's one of the (many) reasons why Swiss style tournaments and WvW restructuring is taking so long.

    Think of trying to change this game's UI like trying to pick a single strand of spaghettini out of a mountain of regular spaghetti. Yeah.

    That excuse is incredibly tired.

    Not trying to defend Anet here; the UI is awful, but it's Anet's own excuse as they've literally said in the past that UI changes take a lot of time and effort to pull off, even the seemingly simple ones like adding 1 new skill to the Warclaw that's taken them 3+months at this point because they're waiting on "UI changes".

    It's pretty common knowledge at this point that the Gw2 engine is likely one of the oldest and most poorly optimized engines still actively used in the industry (Bethesda might have them beat) and a big limitation on what they can actually do in the game specifically regarding the UI depends directly on the engine and how hard it is to change the code they wrote over 7 years ago (longer if you consider this is a modified Gw1 engine). So something as simple as adding a search bar could potentially take some poor dude 250 hours to do because they had to literally re-write half of their 7 year old back-end legacy code to do it.

    Yes it is terrible design, but all I'm saying is it might not be terrible by choice.

    I don't buy that at all. There are clearly components IN THE GAME for this.

    Coherent UI, but that thing doesn't work well in some circumstances

    Joko lies, Balthazar don't.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 26, 2019

    @Vavume.8065 said:
    Thankfully this won't effect me, I see zero reason to make a legendary rune, absolute waste of gold.

    Same, feature wise I find it pointless(?) :open_mouth:. Runes price are slowly getting lower with a steady inflow if symbols(materials unified). Introducing a swappable rune now will only plunge the price. Don't know the materials needed to craft the legendary yet but will it be worth the value and trouble to replace them with "dirt cheap" runes, with no effects? This plus legendary armor allow players to swap runes freely.

    For the Ui, not sure if its possible or better to have it work like the wiki? Eg. By choosing the primary stat will filter the possible combinations etc. Pro; will help to filter/streamline the choices, Cons; imagine swapping 6 runes everytime :confounded: time consuming.

    Not a programmer, but from my understanding....runes are not stats. Names are given to to specific stats combination. While runes have names, stats and sets. It should be possible to make the Ui for it but will it create a complex spaghetti code? (Genuine question out of curiosity).

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't expect to change runes often enough to care how long it takes to find one.

  • sigur.9453sigur.9453 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben K.6238 said:
    I don't expect to change runes often enough to care how long it takes to find one.

    well then whats the point of having legendary ones to begin with?

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Its baffling how the list on the right has so much bloat when the list on the left is all you need to show the full stats. This UI is redundant. Make the scrolling list only show the rune names as normal, just like how legendary stat change works.

  • Magnus Godrik.5841Magnus Godrik.5841 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:
    Dont we have to scroll thru every stat in legendary anything. A simple search bar would be nice for all things legendary. Mind blown

    Except there are three times the amount of runes compared to armor stats.

    Exactly, but since they are there why not do everything.

  • Zeike.7469Zeike.7469 Member ✭✭

    They really should have a test environment where they can test this on a public test realm perhaps and get player feedback that way, it's hard to go over this via a screenshot. I know it's something that will require money to run which is likely why it doesn't but I think it would be a good investment for them as well as players in the long run.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 26, 2019

    @JasonLucas.4981 said:
    Coherent UI, but that thing doesn't work well in some circumstances

    IF I'm not mistaken the Coherent UI is used only for the Trading Post interface.

    @ OP
    How dare you provide feedback based on a single image? They released that to mislead us, the actual version will be much more polished. /sarcasm

  • yusayu.3629yusayu.3629 Member ✭✭✭

    Hopefully build templates will be updated quickly, I probably won't bother crafting any of this until you can use it with ArcDPS build templates.

  • KidRoleplay.3615KidRoleplay.3615 Member ✭✭✭

    Sooo... d-does this imply that we might be getting Ascended Runes too? Because that would actually make me interested.

  • Jayden Reese.9542Jayden Reese.9542 Member ✭✭✭

    Idk if you can conclude anything but it goes from cit to def in the screenshot so maybe they are alphabetical. Who knows but they are not gonna redo in the 5 days before release so after trying it if it suck then make your thread.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nomad.4301 said:

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Nomad.4301 said:
    The UI is probably like this because apparently changing anything UI related in this game's engine takes a LOT of work, it's one of the (many) reasons why Swiss style tournaments and WvW restructuring is taking so long.

    Think of trying to change this game's UI like trying to pick a single strand of spaghettini out of a mountain of regular spaghetti. Yeah.

    That excuse is incredibly tired.

    Not trying to defend Anet here; the UI is awful, but it's Anet's own excuse as they've literally said in the past that UI changes take a lot of time and effort to pull off, even the seemingly simple ones like adding 1 new skill to the Warclaw that's taken them 3+months at this point because they're waiting on "UI changes".

    Then it begs the question, if everyone knows that ui is a kitten for them to work and making changes to it is hard then why didnt we ever get any more information on this during the 5 or so months sonce its innitial reveal?

    Like a simple "hey this is some early drafts we have internally, nothing final yet amd not really any real work on ui has been made but we wanted to ask what would you like to see added or changed".

    Would that really be that extreme to ask for a feature WE KNOW they are working on and intent to release at some point? I can understand the ui being a kitten to change but this is a self caused problem anet yet again has created by not communicating or asking for feedback. They have no excuse.

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sigur.9453 said:

    @Ben K.6238 said:
    I don't expect to change runes often enough to care how long it takes to find one.

    well then whats the point of having legendary ones to begin with?

    My thoughts exactly.

  • Game of Bones.8975Game of Bones.8975 Member ✭✭✭✭

    How often to people change stats on their Legendary Weapons or Armor?
    Sure, at first it's fun to swap stats because you can.
    After a while you settle down and they become just another Ascended with a better skin.

    "That's what" -- She

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Game of Bones.8975 said:
    How often to people change stats on their Legendary Weapons or Armor?
    Sure, at first it's fun to swap stats because you can.
    After a while you settle down and they become just another Ascended with a better skin.

    That's not true at all.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Game of Bones.8975 said:
    How often to people change stats on their Legendary Weapons or Armor?
    Sure, at first it's fun to swap stats because you can.
    After a while you settle down and they become just another Ascended with a better skin.

    Depends on the player.

    Some will change stats as they change game modes or roles, eg. moving from OW to Fractals to WvW.

    But raiders might change their stats before each and every boss fight, if not outright switch characters.

  • Nomad.4301Nomad.4301 Member ✭✭
    edited July 30, 2019

    @Nomad.4301 said:

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Nomad.4301 said:

    Yes it is terrible design, but all I'm saying is it might not be terrible by choice.

    Alright, well I guess I was totally wrong on this, this awful UI was obviously VERY intentional as they have now passed it on to ALL legendary items with select-able stats making the scroll bar 5x longer and that's not even the worst part.. None of the stats are in alphabetical order making finding anything in this laundry list of stats incredibly cumbersome and effectively making swapping legendary gear take longer then before.

  • Trinnitty.8256Trinnitty.8256 Member ✭✭✭

    needs to at least be alphabetized by stat name.

  • Tiviana.2650Tiviana.2650 Member ✭✭✭

    @yusayu.3629 said:
    Hopefully build templates will be updated quickly, I probably won't bother crafting any of this until you can use it with ArcDPS build templates.

    Better yet put build templates in the game, arcs dont work for me and crashes my game. Its a function that should have been in the game already.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nomad.4301 said:

    @Nomad.4301 said:

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Nomad.4301 said:

    Yes it is terrible design, but all I'm saying is it might not be terrible by choice.

    Alright, well I guess I was totally wrong on this, this awful UI was obviously VERY intentional as they have now passed it on to ALL legendary items with select-able stats making the scroll bar 5x longer and that's not even the worst part.. None of the stats are in alphabetical order making finding anything in this laundry list of stats incredibly cumbersome and effectively making swapping legendary gear take longer then before.

    Hotfix incoming in 3 days...2 days...1 day...

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As expected. We got exactly what we saw in the image. Where are the "wait and see this isn't final" people now?

  • Friday.7864Friday.7864 Member ✭✭

    All my gear has that customize thing now...
    Let's put aside the fact that I absolutely hate it for a minute.
    The more important thing would be to put the stats back in alphabetical order! PLEASE!

  • Krypto.2069Krypto.2069 Member ✭✭✭

    @Friday.7864 said:
    The more important thing would be to put the stats back in alphabetical order! PLEASE!

    Anet, so much ^ THIS ^

    Good heavens... making the listing of Every Stat Combination in the game non-alphabetical gave me an immediate reaction of...
    What the heck!?! :confused:
    Why in the world would you do that?! :rage:

    Now I have to try and guess where the 3 Fates stuck Marauder... or Commander or Captains... etc in this Bizzaro window every time I want to change a stat on a piece of legendary gear, which is exasperated by the issue that I can only create legendary trinkets once. :-1:

    Moonlight [THRU]

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2019

    @Krypto.2069 said:

    @Friday.7864 said:
    The more important thing would be to put the stats back in alphabetical order! PLEASE!

    Anet, so much ^ THIS ^

    Good heavens... making the listing of Every Stat Combination in the game non-alphabetical gave me an immediate reaction of...
    What the heck!?! :confused:
    Why in the world would you do that?! :rage:

    Now I have to try and guess where the 3 Fates stuck Marauder... or Commander or Captains... etc in this Bizzaro window every time I want to change a stat on a piece of legendary gear, which is exasperated by the issue that I can only create legendary trinkets once. :-1:

    It's the same for the exotic and ascended items where you choose permanent stats. The stats seem to be, more or less, in the order they were added to the game. So if, for example, you want to select Harrier and you know Harrier was added in PoF then you know it must be near the end. No, too far, Plaguedoctor and Diviner's were added in LS4, scroll a little up, oh Seraph is LS3... down a bit, there it is! Piece of cake! Simplicity itself and far more interactive than any old boring alphabetical sorting! It's like a little history quiz for every choice. /s

    I hope the Runes and Sigils aren't arranged in a similar historical manner as there are a whole lot more Runes and Sigils than there are Stat Combinations. Actually, I don't have any hope, I suspect they're the exact same. (Edit: looking at the screenshot above would indicate that they are the same, Citadel then Defender... if it were alphabetical then it should have been Citadel, Daredevil, Deadeye then Defender).

    This is a terrible way of doing this, ArenaNet. I suspect it's an oversight and they're simply sorting the list on Item ID rather than Item Name but it's sloppy.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @JasonLucas.4981 said:
    Coherent UI, but that thing doesn't work well in some circumstances

    IF I'm not mistaken the Coherent UI is used only for the Trading Post interface.

    @ OP
    How dare you provide feedback based on a single image? They released that to mislead us, the actual version will be much more polished. /sarcasm

    The game used to use Scaleform but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Coherent UI seems like the most logical replacement.

    I think a minor change could make this much better ... basically add in a similar filtering system as what you see on the wiki page for runes and sigils.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2019

    Wow, the new UI is embarrassing and applies to all legendary items it would seem.

    This is the opposite of QoL. You'd waste less time if you just had some ascended to swap between.

    Also kitten either alphabetical order or most used/recent stat. Harrier and Minstrel being at the bottom is :(

  • This seems like such a waste of time. Most players will not craft this. It costs too much, it is pointless, and tbh i don't remember anyone asking for this. Legendary mini next?

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kaleygh.1524 said:
    This seems like such a waste of time. Most players will not craft this. It costs too much, it is pointless, and tbh i don't remember anyone asking for this. Legendary mini next?

    legendary bags I think straight up money skin aswell and no special effects just like the runes/sigils.

  • Sleepwalker.1398Sleepwalker.1398 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2019

    Noxxi, the Noxxian needs to make another one of those subtitle meme vids :)

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2019

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Kaleygh.1524 said:
    This seems like such a waste of time. Most players will not craft this. It costs too much, it is pointless, and tbh i don't remember anyone asking for this. Legendary mini next?

    legendary bags I think straight up money skin aswell and no special effects just like the runes/sigils.

    With the difference being that legendary bags actually can be considered useful since they provide a benefit (more bags space). Legendary Runes and Sigils not so much. Having them is actually a bigger hassle than not using them (and way more expensive) and their main benefit can be achieved by more useful and way cheaper alternatives in game (legendary armor and weapons).

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Kaleygh.1524 said:
    This seems like such a waste of time. Most players will not craft this. It costs too much, it is pointless, and tbh i don't remember anyone asking for this. Legendary mini next?

    legendary bags I think straight up money skin aswell and no special effects just like the runes/sigils.

    With the difference being that legendary bags actually can be considered useful since they provide a benefit (more bags space). Legendary Runes and Sigils not so much. Having them is actually a bigger hassle than not using them (and way more expensive) and their main benefit can be achieved by more useful and way cheaper alternatives in game (legendary armor and weapons).

    Yeah, as far as the legendaries go, runes and sigils provide us with the worst return on utility gained per cost. And they don't have any visuals attached, so the other reason for crafting legendaries doesn't even apply to them.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This looks really bad, like something a new intern just made. That kinda bad.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    This looks really bad, like something a new intern just made. That kinda bad.

    Dident an intern make most of freezies raid so their interns must have got crappier over the year.

  • Paradoxoglanis.1904Paradoxoglanis.1904 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2019

    The new UI for stat/rune selecting is absolutely terrible. For stats its a huge step back in terms of convenience, the window to scroll through is about 5x longer, you can only see a few stats at a time, and its not even alphabetized? I cant understand how features like this make it into the game.

  • mtpelion.4562mtpelion.4562 Member ✭✭✭

    Theoretically, the new UI design will be just fine once build templates are live. You'll not be swapping stats manually often, and will probably prefer to have all the data presented during the few times you are setting up a template.

    Right now, having lots of data clogging up the screen is annoying, because you have to go through all of it each time you want to swap specs around. Once templates are live though, you'll do it once and then can instantly swap between builds so you'll only ever need to look at this screen after a balance patch or other major update that affects your build.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    For some reason I got to thinking this was just a UI change for the runes, but crafted a new legendary last night, and when I went to select the stats I got this eyesore of a menu. What was wrong with the old drop down menu? I confess I don't change stats on my legendary gear much, but for those who do, my sympathies.

  • PhObLife.8370PhObLife.8370 Member ✭✭
    edited August 2, 2019

    I think they hurried the release of Legendary Runes/sigils.

    Maby they should have thought it over more and also introduced ascended runes/sigils as well as the legendary ones?

    I don't know how they would solve the functionality of the ascended version but it's up to them to design it. ;)

    Ascended ones would have to give lesser advantage compared to legendary ones by less convenience.

    Armor, weapons and trinkets as of now have both versions. Runes and sigils do not.

    For me it's a bit wierd that they would skipp a whole category when they have not done so before.

    Why break the tradition of exotic, ascended, legendary? :o

    If ascended runes and sigils where introduced, there would be less fuss about legendary ones as it would cost less by a lot.

    Legendary is not a must nor is ascended in reality. You can go far with exotic's.

    I am myself fully ascended with +5 stats infusions. Even underwater gear is ascended by maxing out my crafting disciplines.

    But all that is not necessary to enjoy the game. :) I just did it because I had nothing better to do. ^^

    It's more about how one plays their character which is far more important.

    Atleast give the players that option so they can choose...

  • Omnicron.2467Omnicron.2467 Member ✭✭✭

    Please revert the changes for legendary armour! It is sooooo slow. It is fine if you are swapping to Berzerker Stats but Viper is in such an awkward place and changing stats on my armour is such a drag now. It was slow before, now it is just terrible

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