[Spoilers] How powerful is the Commander? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

[Spoilers] How powerful is the Commander?

I wonder how powerful are our characters compared to the different enemies and allies. If the Commander had a rank (like mobs have - veteran, elite, champion, legendary) — what it would be?
Some NPCs seems to be very powerful, like Queen Jennah — she can instantly kill someone and create a huge feedback, when our mesmer character can't kill regular enemy with one shot of mantra. The Commander can be easily killed by a common enemy, but we can kill champions and legendary enemies (with or even without any help). It seems like The Commander is powerful and simultaneously weak.
Balthazar e.g. can literally one-shot our character (and he did it 4 times — In Rata Novus, in the vulcano, in Desert Highlands and in Elon Riverlands), but he failed to kill us in the final encounter. So what... is The Commander stronger than Balthazar in PoF (with Aurene's help, but teoreticaly The Commander can spare him), Mordremoth, Palawa Joko (we didn't kill him, but he was defeated)?
Is it possible to characters like Queen Jennah or Koss (he killed Iberu with one hit) to replace us and do the job better? Like... come on, they can kill powerful people much faster. If Jennah e.g. can create a feedback for whole city, it proves that she can utilize mesmer magic much better than The Commander, so she IS more powerful.

Commander, to ME!

Comments

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 26, 2019

    A "is stronger as" relation is usually not transitive, just remember the old stone-paper-scissors example, and therefore nothing you can use to order them linearly nor to determine a strongest/weakest.

    Additionally "won against once" is not really "is stronger as" as Balthasar vs hero shows, i.e. it involves luck, circumstances, companions, ...

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    @Antycypator.9874 said:
    I wonder how powerful are our characters compared to the different enemies and allies. If the Commander had a rank (like mobs have - veteran, elite, champion, legendary) — what it would be?

    Depends on whether it's a story instance or open world. Our allies are usually classified as legendaries, right? I think the PC should be at about their level, plus / minus a bit. OTOH, in Open World, champions are usually not meant to be soloed, so here we are more veteran-like?

    Is it possible to characters like Queen Jennah or Koss (he killed Iberu with one hit) to replace us and do the job better? Like... come on, they can kill powerful people much faster. If Jennah e.g. can create a feedback for whole city, it proves that she can utilize mesmer magic much better than The Commander, so she IS more powerful.

    Now, this could just be my headcanon, but I think the Commander is doing a well enough job with their respective class, but is not really outstanding. Trahearne and Jory are likely better necromancers than a necro PC, Kas and Jenna are better mesmers, our guardian PCs probably would have died in that Arah story if they had been in Logan's place, etc. The Commander is not "special" from the start and was originally not meant to be a Chosen One of any sort (until Aurene, of course). So yes, a lot of NPCs can do the professions better. However, that does not mean they could replace the PC and get better results. Most of our conflicts are not solved by profession skill, but by having the right allies at the right times, teamwork, lots of luck and a bit of extra magic (Aurene, Sohothin...)

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Considering the commander is known to be capable of conquering entire Tyria and enslaving all the lesser races... well that really say everything about your "powerful" characters. They obviously couldnt stop it.

    This is of course assuming we're talking about the commander from the superior race.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Captain Rahim: This is the dragon slayer?
    Rytlock Brimstone: Well, it wasn't a solo effort, but yeah. The commander's taken down one or two.

    And that sums it up nicely I think. The commander, like any of the other 'heros' in the game from Destiny's Edge or Dragon's Watch, is more powerful than your average bear, but the reason they are victorious is combination of strength, determination, tactics, a good choice in companions....and because the story writers wish it so.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 26, 2019

    In terms of mechanical rank? The Commander would be legendary ranked.

    As to how strong the Commander is, keep in mind every single victory against a major foe, the Commander had allies. On top of that, whenever the Commander takes on a major foe - be it dragon champion or other - in one on one combat, the Commander loses.

    To note the notable battles:

    • (Chapter 3 bosses) Mazdak, Kellach, Rissa, Vyacheslav, and Rakt: Partnered with a member of DE and Order member(s).
    • Blightghast the Plaguebringer: had Trahearne and members of the Orders helping
    • Kudu, Gaheron, Faolain (sylvari), DeLana: had 1 or 2 members of DE helping
    • Zhaitan: Had a Pact army
    • Scarlet: Dragon's Watch
    • Shadow of the Dragon: Pale Tree first time, Dragon's Watch second time
    • Faolain (mordrem): Dragon's Watch
    • Mordremoth: Dragon's Watch and a Pact army
    • Caudecus: Canach and Anise
    • Lazarus: Livia
    • Balthazar: Died to, or had Aurene and Sohothin
    • Joko: Lost to (Aurene killed Joko, not the Commander)
    • Kralkatorrik: Aurene and the Pact army

    TL;DR the only times the Commander fought against a powerful enemy alone was against Balthazar (died) and Joko (initially overpowered but lost via immobilized by a trap).

    @Antycypator.9874 said:
    Some NPCs seems to be very powerful, like Queen Jennah — she can instantly kill someone and create a huge feedback, when our mesmer character can't kill regular enemy with one shot of mantra.

    It should be noted that the feedback bubble and barriers that Jennah sets up seem to be city defenses that she merely activated. After all, she contains zero concentration on them after they're activated. In addition, on top of having some mesmer-purple, there's also a shade of guardian-blue in them, indicating that these spells are mixtures of mesmer and guardian magic, which Jennah is not capable of.

    The Commander can be easily killed by a common enemy, but we can kill champions and legendary enemies (with or even without any help). It seems like The Commander is powerful and simultaneously weak.

    This is confusing mechanics for lore here. Though even in mechanics, most "weak opponents" only pose a threat to a player if the player is not really paying attnetion.

    Balthazar e.g. can literally one-shot our character (and he did it 4 times — In Rata Novus, in the vulcano, in Desert Highlands and in Elon Riverlands), but he failed to kill us in the final encounter. So what... is The Commander stronger than Balthazar in PoF (with Aurene's help, but teoreticaly The Commander can spare him), Mordremoth, Palawa Joko (we didn't kill him, but he was defeated)?

    Aurene was using protection magic for the Commander in the final confrontation (also, Balthazar doesn't one-shot the Commander in Rata Novus, and isn't capable of doing so until absorbing a sufficient amount of Jormag's and Primordus' magic during the Heart of the Volcano story step). Similarly, the Commander could only deal significant damage due to wielding Sohothin.

    Mordremoth was fought on two fronts - within the mind by the Commander and half of Dragon's Watch (the other half protecting the Commander and co.'s physical bodies from hordes of mordrem), and the other front was by the Pact army on his physical body (the "Mouth of Mordremoth"). Similar situation with Kralkatorrik, where the Pact army dealt damage to Kralkatorrik while the Commander, Aurene, and half of Dragon's Watch closed the ley lines (and then the Commander and Aurene went into Kralk for the final blow).

    Is it possible to characters like Queen Jennah or Koss (he killed Iberu with one hit) to replace us and do the job better? Like... come on, they can kill powerful people much faster. If Jennah e.g. can create a feedback for whole city, it proves that she can utilize mesmer magic much better than The Commander, so she IS more powerful.

    See above about Jennah, but regarding Koss: anyone can kill an unsuspecting individual in one well-placed strike, game mechanics aside. So that's not really saying much about Koss's strength (I am also suddenly disappointed that Koss and Kossan had no role in Episodes 5 and 6).

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @Antycypator.9874 said:
    I wonder how powerful are our characters compared to the different enemies and allies. If the Commander had a rank (like mobs have - veteran, elite, champion, legendary) — what it would be?
    Some NPCs seems to be very powerful, like Queen Jennah — she can instantly kill someone and create a huge feedback, when our mesmer character can't kill regular enemy with one shot of mantra. The Commander can be easily killed by a common enemy, but we can kill champions and legendary enemies (with or even without any help). It seems like The Commander is powerful and simultaneously weak.
    Balthazar e.g. can literally one-shot our character (and he did it 4 times — In Rata Novus, in the vulcano, in Desert Highlands and in Elon Riverlands), but he failed to kill us in the final encounter. So what... is The Commander stronger than Balthazar in PoF (with Aurene's help, but teoreticaly The Commander can spare him), Mordremoth, Palawa Joko (we didn't kill him, but he was defeated)?
    Is it possible to characters like Queen Jennah or Koss (he killed Iberu with one hit) to replace us and do the job better? Like... come on, they can kill powerful people much faster. If Jennah e.g. can create a feedback for whole city, it proves that she can utilize mesmer magic much better than The Commander, so she IS more powerful.

    A BIG aspect in all of this is Gameplay Vs lore. For example, you can find a human necro in Kessex Hills who summons 3-5 Flesh Golems, and resummons any that die during an event. The PC cannot summon more then one. Trahearne at one point summons more then one golem as well. This is a case of gameplay balancing, as it'd be overpowered to hell if a player necro could run about with several flesh golems, and multiple minions of different types.

    Some characters are powerful, others not so much. The commander is certainly a powerful individual, but they are hardly a one-man army god of war (Like say, so many of WoW's characters, or the PC of WoW).

    Definitely among the figures of heroes, but like a good hero, they have a team of skilled and strong people helping them to achieve victory.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    While i obviously understand that game mechanics don't equal lore, i think it's at least a little interesting to take some possible lore insights from game mechanics.

    I think where most enemies we face are 'sprinters', the commander is a long-distance runner. most enemies we face are built for large, powerful, single attacks that deal massive damage and tire out the user, where as the commander is built for long term sustainable damage, with a small array of quickly recharging abilities that can be used in combat encounters. this honestly holds true for the bosses as well, with the exception that their pool of power is so large that balthazar can kill us with a single blow and still have a significant percentage of his power left over to deal with kralkatorrik. us catching him off guard by using sohothin and releasing aurene was enough to turn the tide against him. Joko on the other hand falls into the long distance category, able to out last any opponent and having tricks up his sleeve to deal with anyone who manages to defeat him, aurene being the only one dealing with the source of his longevity.

    so that's kind of where i personally stand on it, it's how the commander is able to survive longer encounters with more powerful enemies, by being able to outlast enemies with the help of various allies and the use of dodges and (relatively) fast recharging healing abilities

    If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. Veterans can make signatures apparently.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    the commander is probably as strong as a guild bounty. =)

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Pax.3548Pax.3548 Member ✭✭✭

    I think the commander has the most talent for combat. He/she may not be the "strongest" of his/her class, but he/she is one of the most battle talented people, in terms of tactics, techniques, movements, reflexes, etc.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Legendary. Destiny's Edge and allies of similar ranking are Legendary, and Zojja essentially acknowledges in Season 2 that the Commander is the best fighter among them. There are a few caveats, however:

    First, NPCs tend to have inflated stats to compensate for them being less able to predict and dodge attacks than a human player.

    Second, the player is only really the Commander from a mechanical perspective during story instances - in open world and raids, the player is more akin to an elite Pact soldier than the Dragonslayer. You can see this in cases where an enemy can be taken out solo or with a small group of allies in a story instance when the same enemy (or enemies lower in stature) requires a large group in open world or a raid. Mechanically, this is represented by the statistics of creatures in open world and raids being even more inflated.

    Third, there are NPCs that are probably less powerful individually than the PC, but which have resources and training that the PC doesn't have that can make them appear more powerful in certain circumstanced. Queen Jennah is probably a good example of this - she can do things that a player mesmer can't, but her damage output is low.

    Fourth, ArenaNet seems to have grown quite fond of hitting the player with scripted disables...

  • The Commander has one ability that no NPC seems to have- he can respec at will. That versatility makes him stronger than any other npc in a certain way. From a lore perspective, the reason certain npcs are better at a given class mechanic is that mechanic is the only one they can use. The commander can't summon multiple flesh golems, but if summons aren't a good tactic, he can switch to Lich Form. If the skills of a one weapon don't work, he can swap to a different one.

    Additionally, the commander's strength is fairly constant wherever he is. Many boss enemies he faces are at their base, with a source of power to boost them beyond the normal limits of their class. Imagine how strong the commander might be if he had access to a similar place/source of power!

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CaelestiaEmpyrea.2617 said:
    Additionally, the commander's strength is fairly constant wherever he is. Many boss enemies he faces are at their base, with a source of power to boost them beyond the normal limits of their class. Imagine how strong the commander might be if he had access to a similar place/source of power!

    Like, say, Sohothin and Aurene? :P

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @CaelestiaEmpyrea.2617 said:
    The Commander has one ability that no NPC seems to have- he can respec at will. That versatility makes him stronger than any other npc in a certain way. From a lore perspective, the reason certain npcs are better at a given class mechanic is that mechanic is the only one they can use. The commander can't summon multiple flesh golems, but if summons aren't a good tactic, he can switch to Lich Form. If the skills of a one weapon don't work, he can swap to a different one.

    Additionally, the commander's strength is fairly constant wherever he is. Many boss enemies he faces are at their base, with a source of power to boost them beyond the normal limits of their class. Imagine how strong the commander might be if he had access to a similar place/source of power!

    Gameplay vs lore.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.