Signet of Spite & Plague Signet rework idea — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Signet of Spite & Plague Signet rework idea

These two signets have always hit a bit of a sore spot for me. Signet of Spite's passive is awesome for power builds but has an active that doesn't make sense for what the skill is and Plague signet has an awesome active with a crappy passive that can get you killed if you're not careful (especially traited). My idea is simple:

Signet of Spite:

  • Passive: same
  • Active: Steal up to 5 boons from your enemy

Plague Signet:

  • Passive: Gives 180 condition damage
  • Active: same

What do you guys think?

Comments

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The change to Plague signet is a definite yes from me. It's one of the few passives that actually gets worse when traited.
    The Signet of Spite change would more likely be boon corruption than boon steal though. Then it wouldn't override Feed From Corruption (anet has changed traits in the past just because they didn't work with scourge - Speed of Shadows/Vital Persistence).

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • XECOR.2814XECOR.2814 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 27, 2019

    I feel like signet trait should make all signets insta cast on top of its current functionality.

    Also plague signet should have its active changed to something like this: Copy 5 conditions on you to target and convert 5 condis on you to boons.

    So you get condi transfer in untraited signet and 5 condi copy+5condi converted to boon in traited plague signet.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭

    I think Spite would be better if it corrupted boons or dealt more damage per boon (similar to Spinal Shivers)

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • DragonFury.6243DragonFury.6243 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Methuselah.4376 said:
    Signet of Spite:

    • Passive: same
    • Active: Steal up to 5 boons from your enemy

    Too much for an active and too much for necro buff and anet dont want to do that it ll be some thing like Oppressive Collapse require a target to activate and corrupt 1 boon in 240 AOE up to five targets or may be get 1 stack of might for each target it hits

    Plague Signet:

    • Passive: Gives 180 condition damage
    • Active: same

    This is ok

  • Methuselah.4376Methuselah.4376 Member ✭✭✭

    The active on the Signet of Spite is one of the ideas I had. A feature of the Spite traitline seems boom hate so went on from that idea. Honestly I do not really care what active it has so long as it makes sense for a power skill. Instead of stealing boons you could remove/corrupt boons and gain might for each boons removed as suggested, you could apply daze, you could have a temporary damage buff, or give a target a temporary debuff that prevents boon application. Any of these and much more would be a better alternative and have more synergy with a power skill than a bunch of condis.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    plague signet doesn't need change if anything i consider it one of the better designed signets

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  • Kaladel.1670Kaladel.1670 Member ✭✭

    @derd.6413 said:
    plague signet doesn't need change if anything i consider it one of the better designed signets

    Please explain why you think so. Throwing your opinion without explanation seems trollish otherwise.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kaladel.1670 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    plague signet doesn't need change if anything i consider it one of the better designed signets

    Please explain why you think so. Throwing your opinion without explanation seems trollish otherwise.

    because it's one of few signets where the passive and active work in synergy with each other and it also fits with a corruption necro. honetly i think that the only reason ppl don't like it is because the passive isn't solely beneficial on it's own like other signet passives.

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  • Methuselah.4376Methuselah.4376 Member ✭✭✭

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Kaladel.1670 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    plague signet doesn't need change if anything i consider it one of the better designed signets

    Please explain why you think so. Throwing your opinion without explanation seems trollish otherwise.

    because it's one of few signets where the passive and active work in synergy with each other and it also fits with a corruption necro. honetly i think that the only reason ppl don't like it is because the passive isn't solely beneficial on it's own like other signet passives.

    I understand your point but in a situation where you need to transfer condis, you're likely already affected by them and any you get from allies, while may increase your outgoing dps when transferred, can kill you in a blink of an eye depending on the situation. Furthermore, it might be better to take the trait Martyr; with scourge you still have access to transfers as the trait is triggered and you can transfer them before they get consumed for life force.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2019

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Kaladel.1670 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    plague signet doesn't need change if anything i consider it one of the better designed signets

    Please explain why you think so. Throwing your opinion without explanation seems trollish otherwise.

    because it's one of few signets where the passive and active work in synergy with each other and it also fits with a corruption necro. honetly i think that the only reason ppl don't like it is because the passive isn't solely beneficial on it's own like other signet passives.

    Though, I agree that the synergy between the signet passive and active in itself is one of the better designed, the issue is just that this design don't fit well the pace of the game and it's probably the reason behind this will to change it. Afterall, despite it's nasty drawback of hurting the necromancer, the passive fail at giving a good support and fail at providing good offense. Thus, It's very difficult to qualify the passive effect as a well designed passive effect despite it's synergy with the active.

    Signet of spite shouldn't change, It got 2 use:

    • A passive use for power damage builds
    • An active use for condition builds

    In itself, it's well designed. The only reason behind it's lack of popularity for condi builds is it's lengthy cool down making it a waste to take/use even when traited. It would be perfect if they just drop bleed, torment, cripple and reduce the CD to 30 seconds.

    As for plague signet, like previously said, the passive fail at performing well, I'd rather have it reducing incoming condition damage taken by 10% and 20% traited allowing the player to be less burdened by the conditions on him so that he can allow himself to accumulate more of them before using the active. From my point of view it would be a way better passive and still fit the demanding thematic of the necromancer.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Methuselah.4376 said:

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Kaladel.1670 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    plague signet doesn't need change if anything i consider it one of the better designed signets

    Please explain why you think so. Throwing your opinion without explanation seems trollish otherwise.

    because it's one of few signets where the passive and active work in synergy with each other and it also fits with a corruption necro. honetly i think that the only reason ppl don't like it is because the passive isn't solely beneficial on it's own like other signet passives.

    I understand your point but in a situation where you need to transfer condis, you're likely already affected by them and any you get from allies, while may increase your outgoing dps when transferred, can kill you in a blink of an eye depending on the situation.

    sounds more like a L2P issue then a design issue

    Furthermore, it might be better to take the trait Martyr; with scourge you still have access to transfers as the trait is triggered and you can transfer them before they get consumed for life force.

    martyr and plague signet serve 2 different purposes (that being self sustain and condi application respectively). plague signet fits more with a corruption necro then a support necro

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  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2019

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Signet of spite shouldn't change, It got 2 use:

    • A passive use for power damage builds
    • An active use for condition builds

    That's bad design. Such a skill will not improve but limit skill options at the end of the day as no one wants to pick a skill that is only 50% useful.

    As a developer you either

    • design a skill that is 100% useful on condi and power builds and give it utility that is useful on any damage type (well of power, corrupt boon...), or
    • design a skill that is clearly designed to improve one certain damage type (well of suffering, epidemic...)

    to get the most out of your skill bar.

  • ZeftheWicked.3076ZeftheWicked.3076 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2019

    My ideas for them:

    Spite active - gain 300 ferocity and 100% crit chance for 6 seconds . Cooldown: 30s.

    Signet of spite is about aggressive use. Giving necro crit chance and ferocity is a great boon for non crit-capped builds (encouraging build diversity with low/no precision gear), while not breaking raw dps ones (no passive power boost when it's on cd, and if you take Sinets of Suffering you lose close to Death raw damage bonus).

    Plague passive - transfer one/two (SoS traited) conditions with your next attack every 6 seconds.
    Plague active - pull 5 conditions off nearby allies (up to 5 allies) and reduce condition damage taken for next 6 seconds by 50%. 30s cd.

    The current passive sucks - it does too little (2 random conditions of one random ally at best) to be a real help to allies, while enough to annoy the hell out of yourself (happy times grabbing all those chills and cripples when you were trying to get somewhere, preferably in out of combat mode).

    Being able to passively (and aggresively) condi cleanse oneself sounds much better to me. While this may raise issue of "necro condi cleanse op" let's not forget that utility slots are extremely contensted for necro in competitive, and plague signet is hardly a top contenter. The skill needs to be strong to be no pair with other necro top picks like spectral armor, CPC, Spectral Ring, Flesh Wurm, Well of Power and the like.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Signet of spite shouldn't change, It got 2 use:

    • A passive use for power damage builds
    • An active use for condition builds

    That's bad design. Such a skill will not improve but limit skill options at the end of the day as no one wants to pick a skill that is only 50% useful.

    As a developer you either

    • design a skill that is 100% useful on condi and power builds and give it utility that is useful on any damage type (well of power, corrupt boon...), or
    • design a skill that is clearly designed to improve one certain damage type (well of suffering, epidemic...)

    to get the most out of your skill bar.

    How is it? if you take the skill for it's active, the passive don't really matter and if you take it for it's passive you still benefit from it's active since vuln, blind, (cripple) and poison help you whatever your build.

  • Methuselah.4376Methuselah.4376 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Signet of spite shouldn't change, It got 2 use:

    • A passive use for power damage builds
    • An active use for condition builds

    That's bad design. Such a skill will not improve but limit skill options at the end of the day as no one wants to pick a skill that is only 50% useful.

    As a developer you either

    • design a skill that is 100% useful on condi and power builds and give it utility that is useful on any damage type (well of power, corrupt boon...), or
    • design a skill that is clearly designed to improve one certain damage type (well of suffering, epidemic...)

    to get the most out of your skill bar.

    How is it? if you take the skill for it's active, the passive don't really matter and if you take it for it's passive you still benefit from it's active since vuln, blind, (cripple) and poison help you whatever your build.

    I agree with KrHome. You point to the skill's "vesitility" as a strength. But why would you ever take it for its active when it has a long cool down and the condis it applies can be easily applied by any condi necro build? Why is it an adverse idea that a skill does one thing and does it well consistently? No sane condi build will take this signet for its laughable condis.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2019

    @Methuselah.4376 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    How is it? if you take the skill for it's active, the passive don't really matter and if you take it for it's passive you still benefit from it's active since vuln, blind, (cripple) and poison help you whatever your build.

    I agree with KrHome. You point to the skill's "vesitility" as a strength. But why would you ever take it for its active when it has a long cool down and the condis it applies can be easily applied by any condi necro build? Why is it an adverse idea that a skill does one thing and does it well consistently? No sane condi build will take this signet for its laughable condis.

    Which is why in the post KrHome quoted I said:

    In itself, it's well designed. The only reason behind it's lack of popularity for condi builds is it's lengthy cool down making it a waste to take/use even when traited. It would be perfect if they just drop bleed, torment, cripple and reduce the CD to 30 seconds.

    However, it doesn't mean that the active skill is bad in itself, it's just overtuned do to it's overload of conditions.

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2019

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Signet of spite shouldn't change, It got 2 use:

    • A passive use for power damage builds
    • An active use for condition builds

    That's bad design. Such a skill will not improve but limit skill options at the end of the day as no one wants to pick a skill that is only 50% useful.

    As a developer you either

    • design a skill that is 100% useful on condi and power builds and give it utility that is useful on any damage type (well of power, corrupt boon...), or
    • design a skill that is clearly designed to improve one certain damage type (well of suffering, epidemic...)

    to get the most out of your skill bar.

    How is it? if you take the skill for it's active, the passive don't really matter and if you take it for it's passive you still benefit from it's active since vuln, blind, (cripple) and poison help you whatever your build.

    Is bad in PvE because signet of spite becomes a button that you should never ever press. There is no situation that you should use it. That's not good design even though statistically is good, is just not fun.

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