Minion necros singled out for destruction? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Minion necros singled out for destruction?

Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

I've run into quite a few situations where all minions are instantly destroyed and the clocks reset on their associated skill. As far as I know, there's no other class that has a major build that's completely disabled like that. Is there a reason? Or, is this a bug?

Situations where I've seen this (the first three are 100% of the time):

  • Siren's Reef fractal: picking up a cursed treasure or having one tossed to you.
  • Snowblind fractal: Elite guy at the final boss fight. If you are caught the area of effect of his big attack, they're destroyed regardless of whether they were in the area of effect.
  • Mounting, dismounting, and remounting in rapid succession. ("Rapid" means 1-2 seconds.)
  • Aquatic fractal: (inconsistently) if you're caught in the swallow attack. It doesn't always happen, though.

Comments

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daddicus.6128 said:
    As far as I know, there's no other class that has a major build that's completely disabled like that.

    Well except the new scrapper where its primary class mechanic, the function gyro gets instantly killed when someone looks at it too harshly.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Trise.2865Trise.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I can understand the Mount thing being a bug... as if it were tricking the skill into thinking the minion didn't exist, because at the time it doesn't.
    I haven't seen it happen in Fractals, but I don't really pay attention to my minions until I need them. Though I have had Mantras reset when forced into cooldown via mechanic, so that may be related.

    If we want ANet to step up their game, then we must step up ours.

  • Kodokuna Akuma.9570Kodokuna Akuma.9570 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2019

    @Daddicus.6128 said:
    I've run into quite a few situations where all minions are instantly destroyed and the clocks reset on their associated skill. As far as I know, there's no other class that has a major build that's completely disabled like that. Is there a reason? Or, is this a bug?

    Situations where I've seen this (the first three are 100% of the time):

    • Siren's Reef fractal: picking up a cursed treasure or having one tossed to you.
    • Snowblind fractal: Elite guy at the final boss fight. If you are caught the area of effect of his big attack, they're destroyed regardless of whether they were in the area of effect.
    • Mounting, dismounting, and remounting in rapid succession. ("Rapid" means 1-2 seconds.)
    • Aquatic fractal: (inconsistently) if you're caught in the swallow attack. It doesn't always happen, though.

    All I can say is that its just a play style that lacks any real meaningful use outside of easy open world. Maybe this will change with an elite spec focused on minionmancy to revive this playstyle. Until then, its unviable.

    [moderator edit: reply to offtopic comment was moderated]

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's just faulty programming. One of the things I remember hating about leveling as a MM.

  • Donari.5237Donari.5237 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't play MM but I do use the minion heal, along with Rise! And it's frustrating in Siren's Landing that minions last only seconds. I don't think it's been a real issue in any other open world map but Siren's Landing really socks it to me. Maybe they're trying to say that there is so much restorative magic fighting against all vestiges of Zhaitan that necromancy is just a Bad Idea there.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    rapid mounting and dismounting, as well any sort of transforms or costumes will destroy them, as they are tied to the skills being active.

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trise.2865 said:
    I can understand the Mount thing being a bug... as if it were tricking the skill into thinking the minion didn't exist, because at the time it doesn't.
    I haven't seen it happen in Fractals, but I don't really pay attention to my minions until I need them. Though I have had Mantras reset when forced into cooldown via mechanic, so that may be related.

    I was not aware of that. That very well could be related. It's similar, at a minimum. Is it consistently forced into cooldown?

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Donari.5237 said:
    I don't play MM but I do use the minion heal, along with Rise! And it's frustrating in Siren's Landing that minions last only seconds. I don't think it's been a real issue in any other open world map but Siren's Landing really socks it to me. Maybe they're trying to say that there is so much restorative magic fighting against all vestiges of Zhaitan that necromancy is just a Bad Idea there.

    I could accept that. I've often thought that minions seem to be immune to an awful lot of stuff (like zones of burning or other area-effect damage). I've often thought that having minions last forever is something of a problem. But, I would like to see them die independently. When they die all at once (including the healing minion), it's a real problem for me.

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trise.2865 said:
    I can understand the Mount thing being a bug... as if it were tricking the skill into thinking the minion didn't exist, because at the time it doesn't.
    I haven't seen it happen in Fractals, but I don't really pay attention to my minions until I need them. Though I have had Mantras reset when forced into cooldown via mechanic, so that may be related.

    So Minions are One charge mantras with a passive effect? INTRIGUING.

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tiviana.2650 said:

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    Why would you even play minion master in fractals? ugh... Why would you even play necromancer in fractals?! Go meta or go home!
    I suggest looking up builds at metabattle or snowcrows if you want to be effective ;)

    This has to stop, the whole meta thing is stupid, making over half the specs and professions considered useless. Not a good way to balance a game, and the fact that its so ingrained into the players now, they refuse to take people that dont play "the meta"

    Seriously balance the professions. Giving everything to a few and leaving the rest to rot is terrible design.

    Unfortunately, there will always be meta builds, because there are people (and yes, I have other words to describe them, but those would get me infracted) who only understand DPS, healing (with the goal of keeping the DPSers alive), and buffs (to have the DPSers do more damage.)

  • Tiviana.2650Tiviana.2650 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daddicus.6128 said:

    @Tiviana.2650 said:

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    Why would you even play minion master in fractals? ugh... Why would you even play necromancer in fractals?! Go meta or go home!
    I suggest looking up builds at metabattle or snowcrows if you want to be effective ;)

    This has to stop, the whole meta thing is stupid, making over half the specs and professions considered useless. Not a good way to balance a game, and the fact that its so ingrained into the players now, they refuse to take people that dont play "the meta"

    Seriously balance the professions. Giving everything to a few and leaving the rest to rot is terrible design.

    Unfortunately, there will always be meta builds, because there are people (and yes, I have other words to describe them, but those would get me infracted) who only understand DPS, healing (with the goal of keeping the DPSers alive), and buffs (to have the DPSers do more damage.)

    True but its anets fault for making them that way. If they didnt make the professions the way they are they wouldnt be meta. They design them to be that way, thereby feeding into the meta.

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    Why would you even play minion master in fractals? ugh... Why would you even play necromancer in fractals?! Go meta or go home!
    I suggest looking up builds at metabattle or snowcrows if you want to be effective ;)

    I play necromancer in fractals, and i can safely say that a lot of people who do fractals with me are dead long before I am (Reaper at the time of this).

    Exactly. I try to rally them while downed, but frequently some still die. I can't count the number of times I've finished the Aetherblade fractal as the only person standing.

    But, it hurts too, with Mai Trin. I won't move out of the lightning circle when I have the purple star (unless I have a nice spot to go where she can hit me without leaving the circle), but staying frequently overwhelms my ability to heal. Those times, I have to rely on my allies' healing. But, I would rather go down than let her escape the lightning field.

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tiviana.2650 said:

    @Daddicus.6128 said:

    @Tiviana.2650 said:

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    Why would you even play minion master in fractals? ugh... Why would you even play necromancer in fractals?! Go meta or go home!
    I suggest looking up builds at metabattle or snowcrows if you want to be effective ;)

    This has to stop, the whole meta thing is stupid, making over half the specs and professions considered useless. Not a good way to balance a game, and the fact that its so ingrained into the players now, they refuse to take people that dont play "the meta"

    Seriously balance the professions. Giving everything to a few and leaving the rest to rot is terrible design.

    Unfortunately, there will always be meta builds, because there are people (and yes, I have other words to describe them, but those would get me infracted) who only understand DPS, healing (with the goal of keeping the DPSers alive), and buffs (to have the DPSers do more damage.)

    True but its anets fault for making them that way. If they didnt make the professions the way they are they wouldnt be meta. They design them to be that way, thereby feeding into the meta.

    I think it's more acquiescing to the inevitable. Min-maxing will always be possible, unless the balancing is absolutely perfect. But, I don't think perfect balance is even a good goal, let alone achievable.

    I think we're stuck with meta builds.

    And, they can be helpful. In PUGs, it can be handy to know what your teammates are playing. Having a meta druid is probably a good thing. Same with meta chronomancers, healbrands, etc. If someone is new to the content, I would rather have them playing a meta build, so I know how to react. It would be a little strange, for instance, to have the chronomancer focusing on DPS for himself rather than alacrity for others.

  • Game of Bones.8975Game of Bones.8975 Member ✭✭✭✭

    MMs are great for soloing. Although one downfall is their aggro/combat affects your ability to use mounts.

    MMs are only one aspect of being a Necro, like traps to a Ranger or Guardian. I don't think an entire profession should be nerfed just because one line of skills is used properly or works too well.

    "That's what" -- She

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    Why would you even play minion master in fractals? ugh... Why would you even play necromancer in fractals?! Go meta or go home!
    I suggest looking up builds at metabattle or snowcrows if you want to be effective ;)

    You're part of the problem. A piece of the community who needs meta's because you're unable to come up with your own build and bash people for doing so, Minion-masters should be a thing they were good in GW1 and its a playstyle some people tend to like. It has a huge niche that often will support a game simply for having a GOOD version of it.

    When the community does the "Its not a-nets fault it sucks, its your fault. Play meta or kitten off" It reinforces the lack of desire on the devs part to do anything about it, its not fun and its not fair that you want to play X type of character, and the game then tells you "No you must be rainbow sparkles, and not do dark magic." Stop being part of the problem and be part of the solution~ Offer feedback to help A-net make it better, to fix it and make being a minion/horde master fun because that would be the only reason Id play necromancer... because our current necromancer is only one in name alone.

    Oh, I don't know. I think I could find other ways to play necros. Blood magic and curses have some very interesting synergies. But, yeah, I really like minions. I grew up with Dungeons & Dragons, and characters were evil if they made undead, so I never used them. But, there's just something about that that attracts me. When GW1 had minions without making you the enemy, I thought it was GREAT! At least one of my necros will always be playing with minions. (And, yes, you can take that two ways. :))

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @Daddicus.6128 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    Why would you even play minion master in fractals? ugh... Why would you even play necromancer in fractals?! Go meta or go home!
    I suggest looking up builds at metabattle or snowcrows if you want to be effective ;)

    You're part of the problem. A piece of the community who needs meta's because you're unable to come up with your own build and bash people for doing so, Minion-masters should be a thing they were good in GW1 and its a playstyle some people tend to like. It has a huge niche that often will support a game simply for having a GOOD version of it.

    When the community does the "Its not a-nets fault it sucks, its your fault. Play meta or kitten off" It reinforces the lack of desire on the devs part to do anything about it, its not fun and its not fair that you want to play X type of character, and the game then tells you "No you must be rainbow sparkles, and not do dark magic." Stop being part of the problem and be part of the solution~ Offer feedback to help A-net make it better, to fix it and make being a minion/horde master fun because that would be the only reason Id play necromancer... because our current necromancer is only one in name alone.

    Oh, I don't know. I think I could find other ways to play necros. Blood magic and curses have some very interesting synergies. But, yeah, I really like minions. I grew up with Dungeons & Dragons, and characters were evil if they made undead, so I never used them. But, there's just something about that that attracts me. When GW1 had minions without making you the enemy, I thought it was GREAT! At least one of my necros will always be playing with minions. (And, yes, you can take that two ways. :))

    This is true but the theme of the class is lacking in this game, it sucks because it was so dark in the original. This one just has inky goop spew all around and blood magic doesn't feel... like blood magic? I don't know how to explain it. Being someone who played a necro as a main (Necro/rit) in the original and focused on the darkest aspects of the class and then playing wow for a little while and dabbling in the warlock. I've learned to love the occult and dark magic classes in games and its a shame they are done such disservices in todays market.

    Most games don't even give you the option... and if they do its neutered.

  • ZeftheWicked.3076ZeftheWicked.3076 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2019

    @Daddicus.6128 said:

    Also, I despise meta builds with an utter burning passion. That stance hurts me in WvW, but I don't care. "Meta" means "don't think for yourself." blech!
    However, none of those are relevant to the questions: is there a reason, or is it a bug?

    I kitten love you.

    As for minion issue - i think the core reason for this has to do with utility swaps - swap out a minion utility when its summoned - it dies. I guess majority of these situation are categorized by the game as a utility swap in one way or another. Could be that simply shroud is also such case, but due to it being obvious it was secured to not do that. While these cases are yet uncaught rogue "util swaps".

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2019

    @ZeftheWicked.3076 said:
    @Daddicus.6128 said:

    Also, I despise meta builds with an utter burning passion. That stance hurts me in WvW, but I don't care. "Meta" means "don't think for yourself." blech!
    However, none of those are relevant to the questions: is there a reason, or is it a bug?

    I kitten love you.

    As for minion issue - i think the core reason for this has to do with utility swaps - swap out a minion utility when its summoned - it dies. I guess majority of these situation are categorized by the game as a utility swap in one way or another. Could be that simply shroud is also such case, but due to it being obvious it was secured to not do that. While these cases are yet uncaught rogue "util swaps".

    Yet minions are the most brain dead way to play in gw2. Seems odd that anyone could have a view that meta means not thinking for yourself and but also like using minions at the same time.

    As for the mounting: soul beasts have a similar odd interaction when dismounting. Sometimes they can be put out of Beastmode. Sometimes their pet disappears and must be resummoned.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • ZeftheWicked.3076ZeftheWicked.3076 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Minions are there as a playstyle and if he wants to use it he is free to do so. Also while they most certainly can be used in a braindead way, they can also involve certain level of management (active skills, healing and protecting them vs letting them die) to get better results.

    Now pardon me, i got me a core necro build for xpac content to test out :3

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    Yet minions are the most brain dead way to play in gw2.

    A particularly apt description, considering they're undead, and thus their brains really are dead.

    But, we'll have to disagree on this. And, since I'm about halfway through Mist Attunement 2, I must be doing something right. ;)

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well minion's skills have always been weak to transformations and various effects. Most likely because some of those "modify" your utility bar and ANet's dev have to manually create exceptions for minions skills (which is probably not in their priority list).

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2019

    @Daddicus.6128 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    Yet minions are the most brain dead way to play in gw2.

    A particularly apt description, considering they're undead, and thus their brains really are dead.

    But, we'll have to disagree on this. And, since I'm about halfway through Mist Attunement 2, I must be doing something right. ;)

    What build do you use?

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • Josiah.2967Josiah.2967 Member ✭✭✭

    Honestly it is so frustrating when you accidentally mount the wrong mount, quickly mount to the right mount, go to an event/boss and all your minions are on cooldown.

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Daddicus.6128 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    Yet minions are the most brain dead way to play in gw2.

    A particularly apt description, considering they're undead, and thus their brains really are dead.

    But, we'll have to disagree on this. And, since I'm about halfway through Mist Attunement 2, I must be doing something right. ;)

    What build do you use?

    My fractals necro is a viper reaper with four minions (the health one, plus the three that do CC). The last utility slot usually holds a well, but I re-slot it depending on instabilities and general mayhem level and specifics of the fractal. Scepter and focus weapons are primary, greatsword secondary.

    The thing that makes it work, I think, is that I don't use all my skills in a rotation. If there's a breakbar, I use one or more of 2, 5, and the three minion skills. If there are boons, 3 and 5 (and the extra slot, if well of corruption is there). I've grown used to fractals, so I have a feel for whether I need to use all the CCs or boon strips right away, or save them for a more appropriate time. For example, fighting Subject 6 in Thaumanova, I'll save the CC for the vets unless the team has enough DPS/boons to take him down fast enough (which at T4 is rare).

    Death, Blood, and Reaper trait lines.

    Since I don't do a lot of DPS, I focus on keeping the minions going (so they can do their CC more often), being a tank, and helping the party (in that order).

    The problem THIS thread refers to is the loss of all of the minions at the same time. Their CC (and my health/toughness) are critical to the build, so losing them all at once means I'm a liability to the party until they come back. I've learned how to work around it, but I don't feel I should have to.

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well, it's not just fractals. Queen's Gauntlet does it, too. Fortunately, it kills them all as you're leaving a battle, not when you enter.

  • Ygdrasill.9135Ygdrasill.9135 Member ✭✭✭

    The more I play my Necro, the less I use minions. I often only have the Flesh Golem since there's basically no other even sort of viable elite utility skill.

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