People want to know … why the high cost?

How the Devs go about assigning numbers of mats (price) to craft certain pieces of equipment?

With the most recent release of Legendary Runes and Sigils, our latest shiny gotta-have-it, some people have broken down the actual cost and found it to be (for some) to be OUTRAGEOUS.

Sure, they are Legendary and people expect them to cost more than Ascended gear for the ‘privilege’ of swapping stats, but not exponentially more.

Even in the lifetime of the rune/sigil, if I swap stats constantly between characters, professions, play-types, and playtest, the time and money are just out not worth the effort.

Many people will say: “Well, just don’t craft them.” “They’re optional.” “Legendry’s are supposed to cost more and be hard to acquire.”

They would be right, but for all the time, effort, and money the Devs put into coding if no-one is using them; isn’t it a waste? I ran a poll to see if people were crafting the over-sized storage bags. Most people’s comments (when negative) were about the overly high cost with little return.

You will always get a few people who HAVE to craft the item no matter the cost.

I say reduce the overall cost by at least half, create a set of increasingly harder quests to complete through the core worlds, and let people enjoy the fruits of the Dev’s coding labor.

No legendary has ever been worth the money to make it just for the convenience alone. This isn't something new. They ALL are long term goals to work towards and as such come with the price tag. They also exist as a means to regulate economy.

@Blocki.4931 said:No legendary has ever been worth the money to make it just for the convenience alone. This isn't something new.Well, those ones are only about convenience, since they don't have any visuals attached. The cost should reflect that, but it doesn't.

It's like offering a $10,000 iPhone...the only people who could afford to buy don't care about $10,000, ergo, it's not an issue.

For those players who have full legendary armor/weapons already and/or have been playing regularly for a while so as to have massive resources, the cost of these items is irrelevant. Eg. If you have purples and 32 slot bags every where, and 10k gold in the bank, what else will you do with your resources?

But for newer players, or those who play more casually, this item not only isn't easily obtainable, but is also likely not something they would want.

For me, I don't even consider it a good idea until I have Legendary Armor, so until I craft that, no point in worrying about runes/sigils. And even after that, I would only realize a benefit if I had 1 character that ran 4-5 different stat combinations (maybe more!) and since I don't raid, I don't see that as happening.

Truth is, there are only a handful of runes/sigils that are expensive. If I want to see what my build would look like running Traveler runes for instance, it's easier to just spend 60 silver and buy them off the TP, especially if I have legendary armor as I can always sell them back.

I'm sure there are GW2 players who desire these legendary upgrades; I am not one of them.

@Blocki.4931 said:No legendary has ever been worth the money to make it just for the convenience alone. This isn't something new. They ALL are long term goals to work towards and as such come with the price tag. They also exist as a means to regulate economy.

I've heard they help regulate the economy by getting excess mats out of our storage and making us farm/buy replacements. I have 1000 storage slots for mats with basic and intermediate maxed/nearly maxed (mules that are carrying the overflow), and the rest are collecting dust. I have too many of what I don't need and not enough of what I do need.

Someone might have different builds for raiding, open world, and fractals. Or they may like to switch around and play different styles. If they optimize for each situation they would either need to own multiple sets of gear (with all the problems of inventory space/management that goes with it). To those people an item that is free to stat switch would be worth it.

For everyone else, totally optional.

@Game of Bones.8975 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:No legendary has ever been worth the money to make it just for the convenience alone. This isn't something new. They ALL are long term goals to work towards and as such come with the price tag. They also exist as a means to regulate economy.

Thats what the trading post is for sell what you have to much of and buy what you need.

@Linken.6345 said:

@Game of Bones.8975 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:No legendary has ever been worth the money to make it just for the convenience alone. This isn't something new. They ALL are long term goals to work towards and as such come with the price tag. They also exist as a means to regulate economy.

I know. I have the slots to store stuff (I don't buy extra just to hoard).

I guess if you see a 1 copper drop in material price tomorrow you'll know I took your advice and dumped my excess. I'm being generous when I say I will have any affect on the overall price of material costs in the larger scheme of things.

I wouldn't worry too much about the cost until it settles down a bit. I kinda agree that it's a bit expensive for not having any visual effects to go with it, but it is a legendary thing. It happens. Iirc, the newest raid ring costs 6 balls of dark energy, or whatever they're called, which is how many it takes to make a full armor set. I find that a bit ridiculous for a ring too but that's just the way it is.

Why? Two reasons.

• ANet wants to maintain the value of materials on the TP. With the glut of drops whose worth is only in their salvage value, the supply of mats is through the roof. In order to maintain value for at least some of the materials, there needs to be demand. It's a lot more resource friendly for developers to offer a few high cost items to stimulate demand than it would be to offer more items at lower cost.
• ANet wants to maintain player investment in the game. High-cost items serve two purposes that play into that desire. Not only do high-cost items require more time to farm materials (or more likely farm gold to buy them), they also make it more likely the players who do spend time getting them will want to stick around to enjoy the results of their efforts.

The costs will vary over time, the early adapters and those that want to rush through will pay the price. In another post I did share I don't think material syncs should based on people that have maxed storage but I will say here that there are items that should be sinks for excess materials, this is one that makes sense. Do I have legendary weapons and armor, yes. Will I be craft legendary sigils and runes, maybe down the road. I now have the option but I will have to weigh that against crafting another set of armor, that's a good trade off and gives me goals to work towards.

This whole legendary rune situation is just more proof that Anet are out of touch with their own game.

@Game of Bones.8975 said:

They would be right, but for all the time, effort, and money the Devs put into coding if no-one is using them; isn’t it a waste?

You will always get a few people who HAVE to craft the item no matter the cost.

Well, there's your answer.

Also Gold really isn't that useful after you're fully geared. Also you should know that stuff is the most expensive when it first comes out.

My issue is that it's not even that convenient. Changing stats for a single piece of gear takes multiple clicks to do anything. Without templates or severely improved UI people aren't even paying gold for convenience. They're paying gold for saving a little space...

@Game of Bones.8975 said:I've heard they help regulate the economy by getting excess mats out of our storage and making us farm/buy replacements. I have 1000 storage slots for mats with basic and intermediate maxed/nearly maxed (mules that are carrying the overflow), and the rest are collecting dust. I have too many of what I don't need and not enough of what I do need.

Then sell what you have too many of, to generate the funds to buy what you do. That's how ANet has (ahem) geared the economy.(INB4: yes, they have also tried to account for the fact that some will hoard items intentionally, some by accident, and some because they can't bring themselves to buy from the TP something that drops in the game, no matter how poor the RNG.)

It's also a mistake to assume that the current costs are long lasting. There's hype around the items; there's anticipation that this patch was a (ahem) precursor to build templates/loadouts. That drives up demand, scuttles market supply, thus spiking prices. Eventually, that will diminish, as it has with every other shiny.

Never mind the gold/material costs: what's up with requiring 20 clover per rune? That's more than required for Legendary Armor.(30 clover per sigil also seems excessive, to me.)

Material cost prices will fluctuate and I expect that people might consider the convenience sufficient, after build templates/loadouts are implemented. But I don't have an explanation for the clover requirements.

As a side note, prior to sigil|rune crafting recipes, it was common for coveted upgrades to cost 2-10 gold (still true for e.g. Scholar's runes and Force sigils). The exotics into which we would slot them are worth 1-6 gold. So it is not at all unusual to see the the price of the upgrades comparable or exceeding the cost of the gear of the same rarity. There just haven't been any ascended runes|sigils at any cost to moderate our expectations.

Most people who compare legendary runes/sigils to existing legenadries are ignorant of some of the effects and how runes/sigils are implemented.

1.) Legendaries are usually not worth the cost.

• True. Runes/sigils are most easily compared to trinkets in this case where the cost of the non legendary item is significantly cheaper than the legendary.

2.) Legendary items offer unique visuals and/or visual effects.

• True for everything besides runes/sigils. Runes/sigils offer no visual effects.

3.) Legendary items do not compete with each other.

• Not true any longer. Runes/sigils directly compete with legendary armor with the later offering a way better deal and utility.

4.) Legendary items offer convenience in inventory space or quality of life features.

• Absolutely not true for runes/sigils which directly compete with inventory bags and/or infinte upgrade extractor and infinite bank access.

I'm sorry but the way runes/sigils are implemented is totally backwards. Sure they might become interesting IF build templates take them into account or if a player has 9 full sets of legendary armor and no care for gold. Currently though they are a non visual, non beneficial and uncompetative upgrade to existing mechanics at a ludicrous price. They are in no way comparable to any other legendary item in the game, not even trinkets which at least have unique visual effects, bar the ever growing cost for the purple color.

@Ototo.3214 said:I wouldn't worry too much about the cost until it settles down a bit. I kinda agree that it's a bit expensive for not having any visual effects to go with it, but it is a legendary thing. It happens. Iirc, the newest raid ring costs 6 balls of dark energy, or whatever they're called, which is how many it takes to make a full armor set. I find that a bit ridiculous for a ring too but that's just the way it is.

Raids already have the cheapest option for getting the Ball of Dark Energy at 5g+150 magnetite. Everywhere else it will be 27g+ and pretty much every legendary after the original set requires the Ball of Dark Energy.

The worst I can say is that they are surprisingly expensive and some of their value depends on arbitrary negative conditioning, the overwrite mechanic. The fact that the value proposition of Legendary upgrades doesn't conform isn't that big of a deal. We can react as market conforming consumers or accept the studio's proposition.

I am worried about what comes next. Will build templates require legendary gear for some functionality? Will we see Ascended upgrades and will the studio design into overwriting?

@Game of Bones.8975 said:Even in the lifetime of the rune/sigil, if I swap stats constantly between characters, professions, play-types, and playtest, the time and money are just out not worth the effort.

Especially with the amount of inventory space available these days.

I just saw the price comparison in discord. While you can get a legendary armor piece for 350g(can swap stat, rune, infusion)you need to spend a single legendary rune for 550 ish gold. In addition legendary armors already optional choice because of return of the investment times are too long then again you check the rune price, return of to investment time is too long anet devs probably become grandmas and grandpas, if there wont be a ww3 or human kind gets wiped from earth, and then you can meet the positive values. (I saw similar replies but this is my own opinion).

I was hoping for a reasonable price that was slightly close to a full set of legendary armor..

But nope, give everything you have and more..

I have no legendaries and will prob never have them. I am still trying to get the gold for the griffon. I was never good at making gold in games, but some people are like wall street brokers and can make gold easy. For them i think legendary is a cool skin something that says ..look i have the gold and resources to have this. Its fine ill be happy with ascended, which is also a sink to get.

I'm largely in the camp of "wait until prices simmer down a bit to complain or not". There's always a spike in prices once people see the new shiny, and it takes a month or two (depending on gates) for the prices to settle again. That said, I can understand the frustration. I certainly feel like ArenaNet is making it harder and harder to acquire things of lower value.

@Blocki.4931 said:No legendary has ever been worth the money to make it just for the convenience alone. This isn't something new. They ALL are long term goals to work towards and as such come with the price tag. They also exist as a means to regulate economy.

I think part of the problem is that legendary runes/sigils are pure convenience. Whereas other legendary gear (sans PvP/WvW legendary gear) is both convenience and unique aesthetics. Most people had always gone after legendary weapons and armor more for their looks than their function. This is a big part of why people complain about the legendary trinkets having stacking effects since just getting one is the same exact aesthetic.

@Game of Bones.8975 said:How the Devs go about assigning numbers of mats (price) to craft certain pieces of equipment?

With the most recent release of Legendary Runes and Sigils, our latest shiny gotta-have-it, some people have broken down the actual cost and found it to be (for some) to be OUTRAGEOUS.

Sure, they are Legendary and people expect them to cost more than Ascended gear for the ‘privilege’ of swapping stats, but not exponentially more.

Even in the lifetime of the rune/sigil, if I swap stats constantly between characters, professions, play-types, and playtest, the time and money are just out not worth the effort.

Many people will say: “Well, just don’t craft them.” “They’re optional.” “Legendry’s are supposed to cost more and be hard to acquire.”

They would be right, but for all the time, effort, and money the Devs put into coding if no-one is using them; isn’t it a waste? I ran a poll to see if people were crafting the over-sized storage bags. Most people’s comments (when negative) were about the overly high cost with little return.

You will always get a few people who HAVE to craft the item no matter the cost.

I say reduce the overall cost by at least half, create a set of increasingly harder quests to complete through the core worlds, and let people enjoy the fruits of the Dev’s coding labor.

I agree with you. Like why so much? Not to complain about the fact that Anet at least thought about making the legendary runes and sigils. What confuses me is how a whole legendary armor set only costs about 2400 gold altogether. What also confuses me about it is the fact that 1 legendary set is 77 mystic clovers, and then the runes cost more when you need all 6 runes. Also what confuses me is the legendary weapons. Why do the weapons also need 77 mystic clovers when its only 1 weapon, and the legendary armor set is 6 pieces. That is what truly confuses me. So all in all, the infinite upgrade extractor is much less expensive then legendary rune swap. Just put the infinite extractor in your shared slot. I mean its a good thing that Anet thought about it, but the bad thing is this meaningless grind that runes, and sigils are worth more than weapons, and armor pieces.