PvE Build Test Lobby? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

PvE Build Test Lobby?

Hello, just curious; Heart of the Mists is a great lobby for testing potential sPvP builds.
PvE feels like it could really use something like this. Would be great to be able to play around with different stat combinations & runes/sigils to see if they work for the player without having to spend countless hours and gold getting the stuff just to realize that build isn't right for you.

Anyone else interested in something like this? How would one go about making the suggestion?

Comments

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭

    Honestly? Absolutely not needed. Just re-create your PvE build in HotM, go smack those golems there and you will know if you like the build or not. The skills arent that different between pvp and pve balance. The rest of the "void" is filled atm by SC hosting a benchmark overview.
    So, really not needed.

  • Yes, I would prefer that testing builds was easier.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Lacuda.8543Lacuda.8543 Member ✭✭

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    Honestly? Absolutely not needed. Just re-create your PvE build in HotM, go smack those golems there and you will know if you like the build or not. The skills arent that different between pvp and pve balance. The rest of the "void" is filled atm by SC hosting a benchmark overview.
    So, really not needed.

    What about hybrid stat builds? There's also no dps test like the Aerodrome has.
    Not to mention you don't have all the available runes and sigils.

    It wouldn't hurt anyone's gameplay, that's all I'm getting at.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Adding an interface similar to the PVP gear in the Special Forces Training Area would be awesome. It should also include food and utility items so you don't have to waste yours just to practice rotations on the golem. This has been asked for ever since the Aerodrome was released, but nothing happened so don't keep your hopes up.

  • This has been asked for ever since the Aerodrome was released since 2012, but nothing happened so don't keep your hopes up.

    Minor correction. The gist is correct; the timeline is longer.

    Also, it's been about the same time since we've asked for build templates... and finally they are on the horizon. So maybe there's reason to be hopeful. Naw, scratch that. I don't think it's likely; I just think it would be a feature used heavily by some and might encourage more people to consider different builds.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lacuda.8543 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    Honestly? Absolutely not needed. Just re-create your PvE build in HotM, go smack those golems there and you will know if you like the build or not. The skills arent that different between pvp and pve balance. The rest of the "void" is filled atm by SC hosting a benchmark overview.
    So, really not needed.

    What about hybrid stat builds? There's also no dps test like the Aerodrome has.
    Not to mention you don't have all the available runes and sigils.

    It wouldn't hurt anyone's gameplay, that's all I'm getting at.

    You dont need dmg numbers to get a feel for the class. You have benchmarks to make a decision towards that. And yes, the developement time would hurt, because anet will not take that out of living story... so, no. Its a superfluous feature, ESPECIALLY for your stated purpose. Now for those making benchmarks it would be nice to have. But to get a feel for the classes mechanic and gameplay? No. Just no.

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭

    I craft my own builds, without those funny benchmarks or watching any high-rank dps guild's videos about "how to play your class properly." This game offers so many options with different stat-combos, runes, sigils, skills and traits. What is the point of all this variety, if you guys only do what other people tell you to do?

    The custom builds might not perform as well as the calculated ones, but they are fun to play. They keep us motivated and help us enjoying the content. They contribute to our characters individuality. GW2 is still a game, not a 2nd job where you have to score peak-performance to earn your wage. At least I do not get paid for playing here. Maybe you do?

    The PvE test area is a nice idea. When I want to test the performance of a certain rune set, I have to get 6 runes. I have to create the gear, add the runes and then I eventually realize that my idea does not work as intended. The last build-test I ran took me 3-4 weeks of preparations. I have a job and a life behind the keyboard, it really takes so long for me.

    Maybe we get a test-area when the build-templates finally arrive. ^^

  • Lacuda.8543Lacuda.8543 Member ✭✭

    @Yasi.9065 said:

    @Lacuda.8543 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    Honestly? Absolutely not needed. Just re-create your PvE build in HotM, go smack those golems there and you will know if you like the build or not. The skills arent that different between pvp and pve balance. The rest of the "void" is filled atm by SC hosting a benchmark overview.
    So, really not needed.

    What about hybrid stat builds? There's also no dps test like the Aerodrome has.
    Not to mention you don't have all the available runes and sigils.

    It wouldn't hurt anyone's gameplay, that's all I'm getting at.

    You dont need dmg numbers to get a feel for the class. You have benchmarks to make a decision towards that. And yes, the developement time would hurt, because anet will not take that out of living story... so, no. Its a superfluous feature, ESPECIALLY for your stated purpose. Now for those making benchmarks it would be nice to have. But to get a feel for the classes mechanic and gameplay? No. Just no.

    Again, it wouldn't hurt. It might not be your particular cup of tea, but it would still be pretty useful for those of us that like to experiment with builds, especially builds that require gear pieces you can't simply just buy with gold. They wouldn't even have to put all that much work into it, just take the Aerodrome training area and make it sandbox with a few extra golem/fractal options.

    Just because you personally don't like the idea just means don't use it, some of us work full time and can only get a few hours in a day if any, and this would be extremely useful for us.

  • knite.1542knite.1542 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 4, 2019

    I would love this feature. It would be extremely helpful. HoTM golem is not sufficient for testing pve builds. Numbers are extremely helpful. "Getting a feel" for the class with no numbers is not very great. HoTM is also missing a lot of runes and sigils.

    Where did you get that from? I'm not making a claim either way. I don't make assumptions like this to push my ideas ... and neither should anyone else.

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 4, 2019

    @Lacuda.8543 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:

    @Lacuda.8543 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    Honestly? Absolutely not needed. Just re-create your PvE build in HotM, go smack those golems there and you will know if you like the build or not. The skills arent that different between pvp and pve balance. The rest of the "void" is filled atm by SC hosting a benchmark overview.
    So, really not needed.

    What about hybrid stat builds? There's also no dps test like the Aerodrome has.
    Not to mention you don't have all the available runes and sigils.

    It wouldn't hurt anyone's gameplay, that's all I'm getting at.

    You dont need dmg numbers to get a feel for the class. You have benchmarks to make a decision towards that. And yes, the developement time would hurt, because anet will not take that out of living story... so, no. Its a superfluous feature, ESPECIALLY for your stated purpose. Now for those making benchmarks it would be nice to have. But to get a feel for the classes mechanic and gameplay? No. Just no.

    Again, it wouldn't hurt. It might not be your particular cup of tea, but it would still be pretty useful for those of us that like to experiment with builds, especially builds that require gear pieces you can't simply just buy with gold. They wouldn't even have to put all that much work into it, just take the Aerodrome training area and make it sandbox with a few extra golem/fractal options.

    Just because you personally don't like the idea just means don't use it, some of us work full time and can only get a few hours in a day if any, and this would be extremely useful for us.

    Okay, Ill try to explain. Everytime we ask for a new feature that "just" means adding an existing feature to another area of the game, devs say its borderline impossible and would take a lot of work. We cant get WvW balancing in guildhalls - which would be a more used feature than adding PvP armor to aerodrom testing arena - because guildhalls are part of PvE. There are old bugs in the game that nobody can really fix because the programmers that really understood the code left. Etc.
    As you can see... in your eyes "small" feature requests actually cause a lot of work... and that work has to be then substracted from other projects - like new raids, new fractals, wvw alliances, pvp swiss etc. So, yes, it would hurt. Your feature would be "useful" to a handful of players. There are other things that would be useful to way more players - like difficulty settings in raids, wvw balance in guildhall arena, bugfixes, etc.

    On a sidenote: This is the downsite of having a gemshop instead of a subfee. All those artists working on gemshop skins just cant implement those nice features.

    /edit: And just to iterate it: You dont need dmg numbers to make new builds. You can do that part just oldschool with spreadsheet math. Just going to golem, whacking it for kitten and giggles is not the way to go about theorycrafting new builds anyway. And to get a feel for an existing build - if you like the mechanic, the rotation, or not - you also dont need the dmg numbers.

  • Lacuda.8543Lacuda.8543 Member ✭✭

    @Yasi.9065 said:

    @Lacuda.8543 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:

    @Lacuda.8543 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    Honestly? Absolutely not needed. Just re-create your PvE build in HotM, go smack those golems there and you will know if you like the build or not. The skills arent that different between pvp and pve balance. The rest of the "void" is filled atm by SC hosting a benchmark overview.
    So, really not needed.

    What about hybrid stat builds? There's also no dps test like the Aerodrome has.
    Not to mention you don't have all the available runes and sigils.

    It wouldn't hurt anyone's gameplay, that's all I'm getting at.

    You dont need dmg numbers to get a feel for the class. You have benchmarks to make a decision towards that. And yes, the developement time would hurt, because anet will not take that out of living story... so, no. Its a superfluous feature, ESPECIALLY for your stated purpose. Now for those making benchmarks it would be nice to have. But to get a feel for the classes mechanic and gameplay? No. Just no.

    Again, it wouldn't hurt. It might not be your particular cup of tea, but it would still be pretty useful for those of us that like to experiment with builds, especially builds that require gear pieces you can't simply just buy with gold. They wouldn't even have to put all that much work into it, just take the Aerodrome training area and make it sandbox with a few extra golem/fractal options.

    Just because you personally don't like the idea just means don't use it, some of us work full time and can only get a few hours in a day if any, and this would be extremely useful for us.

    Okay, Ill try to explain. Everytime we ask for a new feature that "just" means adding an existing feature to another area of the game, devs say its borderline impossible and would take a lot of work. We cant get WvW balancing in guildhalls - which would be a more used feature than adding PvP armor to aerodrom testing arena - because guildhalls are part of PvE. There are old bugs in the game that nobody can really fix because the programmers that really understood the code left. Etc.
    As you can see... in your eyes "small" feature requests actually cause a lot of work... and that work has to be then substracted from other projects - like new raids, new fractals, wvw alliances, pvp swiss etc. So, yes, it would hurt. Your feature would be "useful" to a handful of players. There are other things that would be useful to way more players - like difficulty settings in raids, wvw balance in guildhall arena, bugfixes, etc.

    On a sidenote: This is the downsite of having a gemshop instead of a subfee. All those artists working on gemshop skins just cant implement those nice features.

    /edit: And just to iterate it: You dont need dmg numbers to make new builds. You can do that part just oldschool with spreadsheet math. Just going to golem, whacking it for kitten and giggles is not the way to go about theorycrafting new builds anyway. And to get a feel for an existing build - if you like the mechanic, the rotation, or not - you also dont need the dmg numbers.

    Dude, the feature IS already available, it's called a beta client. Could just let players make use of beta client style character access. Easy peasy super squeezy, a dev could knock it off in a weekend with a bottle each of jaegermeister, goldschlagger and redbull.

    Aside from that, they could just copy paste the type of access available in Heart of the Mists.

    The idea that coding time budget should have fans on the forums telling other fans that their ideas are stupid because it theoretically might take away from other content is just silly.

  • knite.1542knite.1542 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2019

    @Lacuda.8543 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:

    The idea that coding time budget should have fans on the forums telling other fans that their ideas are stupid because it theoretically might take away from other content is just silly.

    Yeah this is an advanced form of gatekeeping that I have never seen before. I can almost hear the condescending attitude through my screen. " No. Just no."

    Where did you get that from? I'm not making a claim either way. I don't make assumptions like this to push my ideas ... and neither should anyone else.

  • @Yasi.9065 said:
    Honestly? Absolutely not needed. Just re-create your PvE build in HotM, go smack those golems there and you will know if you like the build or not. The skills arent that different between pvp and pve balance. The rest of the "void" is filled atm by SC hosting a benchmark overview.
    So, really not needed.

    no no no you cant "recreate" just any build in Hotm if so much runes,sigils and stat combinations etc are not available there

  • Lacuda.8543Lacuda.8543 Member ✭✭

    Arena Net: If you do this I would pay 1000 gems for it!

  • @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    I craft my own builds, without those funny benchmarks or watching any high-rank dps guild's videos about "how to play your class properly." This game offers so many options with different stat-combos, runes, sigils, skills and traits. What is the point of all this variety, if you guys only do what other people tell you to do?

    The custom builds might not perform as well as the calculated ones, but they are fun to play. They keep us motivated and help us enjoying the content. They contribute to our characters individuality. GW2 is still a game, not a 2nd job where you have to score peak-performance to earn your wage. At least I do not get paid for playing here. Maybe you do?

    that topic has been discussed to death, but i still give you an answer:
    some people simply enjoy being effective in gameplay and moreso if the whole group is build arround it. for example wanting 100% critcap and knowing the number which you have to reach if you can expect spotter & banners so you do not overcap on stats, wasting them. the point in total is: the more people play those builds, the easier it is for anyone to get into a group without the need to change stats or knowing exactly who in the group is for buffing the party up. like why would anyone run some special selfish boon build while you have a dedicated buffer.

    not everyone has the time to test every single build they have in mind, nor do they know if they will be effective, so copying others is not a bad thing...especially when it makes building teams way way easier. you can jump any time into t4 fractal group and play with warr/druid/chrono/ + 2 dps, firebrand / alacrigate / + 3 dps or any variation of those setup with / without healer and you know what you can expect on those terms of who give which boons, where is the cc coming from, dps etc.

    considering "peak-performance": the difference in terms of damage introduced in the gw2 combat/build system is way higher then in any other mmo. while in other mmos you still do more then enough damage through just pressing skills and having some random build, in gw2 the difference is way higher.
    you might want to read this comment (fact 3) i made on the terms of damage to see the magnitude.

    playing some random build that sounds good in your head may be fun, depending on what you have in mind its just unttermost trash.
    if someone struggles with the game i have nothing against it that he takes some tankyness / sustain or whatever for the content were he has no group which can support him...for example you can build a condi warrior with 100% bleed / burn duration, higher condition damage while having defensive traitlines, good sustain, boon generation and over 2k toughness. that build will still deal good damage for what it does and will still outdamage all those press 1 dudes in openworld. it will carry you through any story because you do not need to dodge.
    the thing is: if you play this, you thought about how to deal damage (getting those condis pumped up) while taking some sustain. on the same premise you could build a healshout warrior with condi removal runes on shouts and it be totally kitten...but it sounds "fun" right?

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭

    As long as everyone lives by efficiency, everyone will benefit from it. If people want to be individuals, they can still have individual thoughts. All for the greater good, for a better life for everyone. ...

    The sad part is, that I keep debating with your kind for years now. But I only hear the same phrases over and over, like a machine that only knows one function. I am writing for almost 3 hours on this answer now, always scrapping it in the last moment. I do not know how to explain feelings to a machine.

    I can only speak for myself. I play this game for entertainment. My RL is already busy enough, I play GW2 to relax and have fun with friends. This can be anything from just meeting them in the chat window, to doing events together or just sitting around and enjoying the beauty of our surroundings. In my guild we allow our members to play the game as they feel comfortable. They can play what class they want, what build they want, they can dress and name their characters how they want. If we run some events together, we just enjoy the company of each other. If we fail a challenge, we adapt and improve to our personal limits. This decision makes everyone for himself. It may sound strange to a person like you, but we enjoy it. I enjoy it.

    Explaining feelings to a machine. Anyone else wants to try?

  • skarpak.8594skarpak.8594 Member ✭✭
    edited August 7, 2019

    so everyone who has fun in playing games more efficently is now a machine? is it your intention to just to insult me or are you trying to communicate on some kind of higher level? have you read what i wrote in the posted link? especially the last part.
    here, i am gonna quote myself:

    BUT have always in mind: different players play different styles and the GW2 system has HUGE numerical gaps between the different groups. make sure you join in with likeminded people.

    i didn't say you can't play how you want. i didn't say you have to play the meta.
    what i highlighted was that there are huge numerical differences in builds when compared to other games where you can still do 70% of what a "pro" can do compared to gw2 where you are suddenly already at 80% when your rotation is wrong and at 20% when your build is not too bad.

    and that is something no one can change through argumentation that a non meta selfmade build is "more fun". it simply has nothing to do with fun.

    what you are going to do in the end, is your thing. good for you and your guild if you can enjoy the game like this.
    well, at least i am not going arround calling people machines, what a silly thing to do.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2019

    @skarpak.8594 said:
    and that is something no one can change through argumentation that a non meta selfmade build is "more fun". it simply has nothing to do with fun.

    Fun or more fun is just completely subjective. People that don't have anything in mind than just playing don't care about optimal builds but they can still have more fun with it instead of blindly following a meta build, smashing buttons in an order and overcome encounters faster. When I started GW2 shortly after release I myself played a crappy build like so many others and we all had fun and even after a short time apparently we had more fun than others that were already starting to insult others and going mad because they played different.
    Nowadays, do I like to play challenging content with others in very suboptimal gear? No. Am I able to avoid them and let them play how they want because they have more fun in doing so? Absolutely yes, but I hope they also understand that I myself have certain expectations.
    As long as both groups can step aside from each other I don't see a problem here.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's a shame this cool idea is getting buried in tired meta/anti-meta rhetoric.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2019

    I don't get the point ... why is the golem not good enough? If the golem doesn't have enough options, it's easier to just expand them than design and implement a whole new thing to accomodate the OP's request.

    And yes, it's work, so it does interfere with other developments that are likely more meaningful. This advanced form of 'gatekeeping' isn't about telling people their ideas are stupid ... but it does indicate acknowledgement of a level of frivolous happening here.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Lacuda.8543Lacuda.8543 Member ✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I don't get the point ... why is the golem not good enough? If the golem doesn't have enough options, it's easier to just expand them than design and implement a whole new thing to accomodate the OP's request.

    And yes, it's work, so it does interfere with other developments that are likely more meaningful. This advanced form of 'gatekeeping' isn't about telling people their ideas are stupid ... but it does indicate acknowledgement of a level of frivolous happening here.

    You first say you don't get the point, then proceed to try to shut down a point you said you don't get?
    The point has nothing to do with golems, they're literally there to be smacked/smack back for testing of builds.
    The point is a lot of builds are gated behind weeks of farming work, not just gold you can throw at them.
    The point is that being able to accurately test these builds for PvE should be an option considering they already gave this exact feature and love to sPvP players.
    If you think it's "frivolous" to let players test a build so they can concretely decide to spend time, energy and often money, on that build, then you're just attacking someone for how they play the game.

    @mindcircus.1506 said:
    It's a shame this cool idea is getting buried in tired meta/anti-meta rhetoric.

    Yes, it really is. The "I don't play that way and even though this wouldn't affect me remotely I don't like it!" is strong here.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    @Lacuda.8543 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I don't get the point ... why is the golem not good enough? If the golem doesn't have enough options, it's easier to just expand them than design and implement a whole new thing to accomodate the OP's request.

    And yes, it's work, so it does interfere with other developments that are likely more meaningful. This advanced form of 'gatekeeping' isn't about telling people their ideas are stupid ... but it does indicate acknowledgement of a level of frivolous happening here.

    You first say you don't get the point, then proceed to try to shut down a point you said you don't get?
    The point has nothing to do with golems, they're literally there to be smacked/smack back for testing of builds.
    The point is a lot of builds are gated behind weeks of farming work, not just gold you can throw at them.
    The point is that being able to accurately test these builds for PvE should be an option considering they already gave this exact feature and love to sPvP players.
    If you think it's "frivolous" to let players test a build so they can concretely decide to spend time, energy and often money, on that build, then you're just attacking someone for how they play the game.

    @mindcircus.1506 said:
    It's a shame this cool idea is getting buried in tired meta/anti-meta rhetoric.

    Yes, it really is. The "I don't play that way and even though this wouldn't affect me remotely I don't like it!" is strong here.

    No, I'm asking a pretty simple question actually. If you want to promote a way to accurately test builds for PVE, why isn't expanding the golem options acceptable to you? It's also the kind of question you would get asked by the people that developed this game, since it's the reason they put the golem in there to begin with.

    I can only think your reluctance to answer it is because you don't want to entertain any solution that isn't the one you imagine.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    And yes, it's work, so it does interfere with other developments that are likely more meaningful. This advanced form of 'gatekeeping' isn't about telling people their ideas are stupid ... but it does indicate acknowledgement of a level of frivolous happening here.

    Wow.
    Just.... wow.
    One of my prime sources of enjoyment of this game is the buildcraft. It's one of the things that hooked me on this game.
    Realistically speaking it takes 20-35 gold every time I want to change stats on one of my toons and even then I still have to farm up enough berries/stumps/blood rubies for the trinkets. Between leather for insignias, the t6 mats, and the new runes and sigils it's not a cheap process.
    That's without getting into something like Celestial, Minstrel's or Trailblazer stats.

    Frivolous? Maybe to someone who thinks everyone enjoys this game the way they do.
    To me, an easy way to test gear/build combinations without penalty would be the single greatest QoL improvement Arenanet could give me.

    No, I'm asking a pretty simple question actually. If you want to promote a way to accurately test builds for PVE, why isn't expanding the golem options acceptable to you? It's also the kind of question you would get asked by the people that developed this game, since it's the reason they put the golem in there to begin with.

    There are currently three testing environments in the game. All three are targetted to the game mode they are for. The two existing PVE ones do their purpose well, they allow experienced players who want to practice their existing skills or benchmark performance the ability to do so. They do not however allow me to test out gear combinations. Nor should they.

    An improved PvE testing area could not just be used by buildcraft enthusiasts like me. It could absolutely be used to tutorialize the gear system and properly explain stat sets to new players.
    It could be used to send people to after they use that level 80 boost to learn some essentials instead of just dropping them in the Silverwastes in Soldier's gear.
    It could be used to explain breakbar mechanics or condition cleansing. And give those of us who want to experiment another avenue to come up with something cool and fun.

    Call it frivolous all you want. It's frivolous to you
    I spend my share of money on this game. Character slots have been my build templates for a couple of years. Some of the toons I create might get a gemstore cosmetic or I might make them a legendary because it looks good.
    Enabling me to do this fewer restrictions doesn't sound like a bad idea at all.
    I'll wager this is a more positive contribution to this game than your "advanced form gatekeeping" is.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2019

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    And yes, it's work, so it does interfere with other developments that are likely more meaningful. This advanced form of 'gatekeeping' isn't about telling people their ideas are stupid ... but it does indicate acknowledgement of a level of frivolous happening here.

    Wow.
    Just.... wow.
    One of my prime sources of enjoyment of this game is the buildcraft. It's one of the things that hooked me on this game.

    Great ... so I will ask you the same question I asked him.

    If you want to promote a way to accurately test builds for PVE, why isn't expanding the golem options acceptable to you? Again, don 't come to me looking for a fight because you won't get it. I just want to understand why the current options aren't acceptable.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Lacuda.8543Lacuda.8543 Member ✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    And yes, it's work, so it does interfere with other developments that are likely more meaningful. This advanced form of 'gatekeeping' isn't about telling people their ideas are stupid ... but it does indicate acknowledgement of a level of frivolous happening here.

    Wow.
    Just.... wow.
    One of my prime sources of enjoyment of this game is the buildcraft. It's one of the things that hooked me on this game.

    Great ... so I will ask you the same question I asked him.

    If you want to promote a way to accurately test builds for PVE, why isn't expanding the golem options acceptable to you? Again, don 't come to me looking for a fight because you won't get it. I just want to understand why the current options aren't acceptable.

    The engine isn't designed in such a way to allow you to click a few buttons on a golem to simulate something like a hybrid stats build.
    The suggestions I put forth were ones realistically available that could be done in short order without effectively taking away from anything.
    Adding golem selections for changing your gear would be a HUGE endeavor as they have zero precedent templates and would have to build it out from scratch.

  • Lacuda.8543Lacuda.8543 Member ✭✭

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    And yes, it's work, so it does interfere with other developments that are likely more meaningful. This advanced form of 'gatekeeping' isn't about telling people their ideas are stupid ... but it does indicate acknowledgement of a level of frivolous happening here.

    Wow.
    Just.... wow.
    One of my prime sources of enjoyment of this game is the buildcraft. It's one of the things that hooked me on this game.
    Realistically speaking it takes 20-35 gold every time I want to change stats on one of my toons and even then I still have to farm up enough berries/stumps/blood rubies for the trinkets. Between leather for insignias, the t6 mats, and the new runes and sigils it's not a cheap process.
    That's without getting into something like Celestial, Minstrel's or Trailblazer stats.

    Frivolous? Maybe to someone who thinks everyone enjoys this game the way they do.
    To me, an easy way to test gear/build combinations without penalty would be the single greatest QoL improvement Arenanet could give me.

    No, I'm asking a pretty simple question actually. If you want to promote a way to accurately test builds for PVE, why isn't expanding the golem options acceptable to you? It's also the kind of question you would get asked by the people that developed this game, since it's the reason they put the golem in there to begin with.

    There are currently three testing environments in the game. All three are targetted to the game mode they are for. The two existing PVE ones do their purpose well, they allow experienced players who want to practice their existing skills or benchmark performance the ability to do so. They do not however allow me to test out gear combinations. Nor should they.

    An improved PvE testing area could not just be used by buildcraft enthusiasts like me. It could absolutely be used to tutorialize the gear system and properly explain stat sets to new players.
    It could be used to send people to after they use that level 80 boost to learn some essentials instead of just dropping them in the Silverwastes in Soldier's gear.
    It could be used to explain breakbar mechanics or condition cleansing. And give those of us who want to experiment another avenue to come up with something cool and fun.

    Call it frivolous all you want. It's frivolous to you
    I spend my share of money on this game. Character slots have been my build templates for a couple of years. Some of the toons I create might get a gemstore cosmetic or I might make them a legendary because it looks good.
    Enabling me to do this fewer restrictions doesn't sound like a bad idea at all.
    I'll wager this is a more positive contribution to this game than your "advanced form gatekeeping" is.

    All of this.
    The best way to get more players is to ensure the learning curve is both dynamic and flexible. It should target everyone, not people who have played a long time.
    So many people still have no idea how to even use the special mechanics button. Or about alternative dodging. Having a more in depth tutorial and testing area is exactly the way to get way more revenue and generate more playership.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2019

    @Lacuda.8543 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    And yes, it's work, so it does interfere with other developments that are likely more meaningful. This advanced form of 'gatekeeping' isn't about telling people their ideas are stupid ... but it does indicate acknowledgement of a level of frivolous happening here.

    Wow.
    Just.... wow.
    One of my prime sources of enjoyment of this game is the buildcraft. It's one of the things that hooked me on this game.

    Great ... so I will ask you the same question I asked him.

    If you want to promote a way to accurately test builds for PVE, why isn't expanding the golem options acceptable to you? Again, don 't come to me looking for a fight because you won't get it. I just want to understand why the current options aren't acceptable.

    The engine isn't designed in such a way to allow you to click a few buttons on a golem to simulate something like a hybrid stats build.
    The suggestions I put forth were ones realistically available that could be done in short order without effectively taking away from anything.
    Adding golem selections for changing your gear would be a HUGE endeavor as they have zero precedent templates and would have to build it out from scratch.

    It's nice you think your suggestions are faster to do than simply upgrading golem, but you don't really know what the work is involved to do either of those two things. Seems to me your reasoning is based on what you want to the be true.

    So basically, your assumption that upgrading golem is too much work to upgrade is why you don't support upgrading it?

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Lacuda.8543 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    And yes, it's work, so it does interfere with other developments that are likely more meaningful. This advanced form of 'gatekeeping' isn't about telling people their ideas are stupid ... but it does indicate acknowledgement of a level of frivolous happening here.

    Wow.
    Just.... wow.
    One of my prime sources of enjoyment of this game is the buildcraft. It's one of the things that hooked me on this game.

    Great ... so I will ask you the same question I asked him.

    If you want to promote a way to accurately test builds for PVE, why isn't expanding the golem options acceptable to you? Again, don 't come to me looking for a fight because you won't get it. I just want to understand why the current options aren't acceptable.

    The engine isn't designed in such a way to allow you to click a few buttons on a golem to simulate something like a hybrid stats build.
    The suggestions I put forth were ones realistically available that could be done in short order without effectively taking away from anything.
    Adding golem selections for changing your gear would be a HUGE endeavor as they have zero precedent templates and would have to build it out from scratch.

    It's nice you think your suggestions are faster to do than simply upgrading golem, but you don't really know what the work is involved to do either of those two things. Seems to me your reasoning is based on what you want to the be true.

    So basically, your assumption that upgrading golem is too much work to upgrade is why you don't support upgrading it?

    Curious why you think the golem would be easier?

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 10, 2019

    @Lacuda.8543 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Lacuda.8543 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    And yes, it's work, so it does interfere with other developments that are likely more meaningful. This advanced form of 'gatekeeping' isn't about telling people their ideas are stupid ... but it does indicate acknowledgement of a level of frivolous happening here.

    Wow.
    Just.... wow.
    One of my prime sources of enjoyment of this game is the buildcraft. It's one of the things that hooked me on this game.

    Great ... so I will ask you the same question I asked him.

    If you want to promote a way to accurately test builds for PVE, why isn't expanding the golem options acceptable to you? Again, don 't come to me looking for a fight because you won't get it. I just want to understand why the current options aren't acceptable.

    The engine isn't designed in such a way to allow you to click a few buttons on a golem to simulate something like a hybrid stats build.
    The suggestions I put forth were ones realistically available that could be done in short order without effectively taking away from anything.
    Adding golem selections for changing your gear would be a HUGE endeavor as they have zero precedent templates and would have to build it out from scratch.

    It's nice you think your suggestions are faster to do than simply upgrading golem, but you don't really know what the work is involved to do either of those two things. Seems to me your reasoning is based on what you want to the be true.

    So basically, your assumption that upgrading golem is too much work to upgrade is why you don't support upgrading it?

    Curious why you think the golem would be easier?

    Where did you get that from? I'm not making a claim either way. I don't make assumptions like this to push my ideas ... and neither should anyone else.

    I'm just saying ... they gave us the golem for this reason. The more likely request is to upgrade it, not ask for something completely new.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 10, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Lacuda.8543 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Lacuda.8543 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    And yes, it's work, so it does interfere with other developments that are likely more meaningful. This advanced form of 'gatekeeping' isn't about telling people their ideas are stupid ... but it does indicate acknowledgement of a level of frivolous happening here.

    Wow.
    Just.... wow.
    One of my prime sources of enjoyment of this game is the buildcraft. It's one of the things that hooked me on this game.

    Great ... so I will ask you the same question I asked him.

    If you want to promote a way to accurately test builds for PVE, why isn't expanding the golem options acceptable to you? Again, don 't come to me looking for a fight because you won't get it. I just want to understand why the current options aren't acceptable.

    The engine isn't designed in such a way to allow you to click a few buttons on a golem to simulate something like a hybrid stats build.
    The suggestions I put forth were ones realistically available that could be done in short order without effectively taking away from anything.
    Adding golem selections for changing your gear would be a HUGE endeavor as they have zero precedent templates and would have to build it out from scratch.

    It's nice you think your suggestions are faster to do than simply upgrading golem, but you don't really know what the work is involved to do either of those two things. Seems to me your reasoning is based on what you want to the be true.

    So basically, your assumption that upgrading golem is too much work to upgrade is why you don't support upgrading it?

    Curious why you think the golem would be easier?

    Where did you get that from? I'm not making a claim either way. I don't make assumptions like this to push my ideas ... and neither should anyone else.

    Probably from here:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I don't get the point ... why is the golem not good enough? If the golem doesn't have enough options, it's easier to just expand them than design and implement a whole new thing to accomodate the OP's request.

    He asked why it would be easier, because you wrote it would be easier. Now stop lying you "didn't make a claim".

  • knite.1542knite.1542 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 11, 2019

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    He asked why it would be easier, because you wrote it would be easier. Now stop lying you "didn't make a claim".

    You must be taking that out of context.

    Where did you get that from? I'm not making a claim either way. I don't make assumptions like this to push my ideas ... and neither should anyone else.

  • TamX.1870TamX.1870 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lacuda.8543 said:
    Hello, just curious; Heart of the Mists is a great lobby for testing potential sPvP builds.
    PvE feels like it could really use something like this. Would be great to be able to play around with different stat combinations & runes/sigils to see if they work for the player without having to spend countless hours and gold getting the stuff just to realize that build isn't right for you.

    Yeah. I have suggested adding easier to access e.g. rare quality legendary pieces (armor, weapons, trinkets) for build testing. Rare quality pieces with legendary features (stat swapping, rune/sigil unslotting). From many parts, the game encourages experimenting and finding out new things, but gearing is quite laborous, expensive and time-consuming.

    @Lacuda.8543 said:
    The point is a lot of builds are gated behind weeks of farming work, not just gold you can throw at them.

    Yeah.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 11, 2019

    @knite.1542 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    He asked why it would be easier, because you wrote it would be easier. Now stop lying you "didn't make a claim".

    You must be taking that out of context.

    Yeah, totally. :lol:

    10/10 for @Obtena.7952 disappearance act after getting called out on a blatant lie though.

  • knite.1542knite.1542 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @knite.1542 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    He asked why it would be easier, because you wrote it would be easier. Now stop lying you "didn't make a claim".

    You must be taking that out of context.

    Yeah, totally. :lol:

    10/10 for @Obtena.7952 disappearance act after getting called out on a blatant lie though.

    This person is probably busy proving someone in a different thread wrong. Just give it time.

    Where did you get that from? I'm not making a claim either way. I don't make assumptions like this to push my ideas ... and neither should anyone else.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @knite.1542 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @knite.1542 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    He asked why it would be easier, because you wrote it would be easier. Now stop lying you "didn't make a claim".

    You must be taking that out of context.

    Yeah, totally. :lol:

    10/10 for @Obtena.7952 disappearance act after getting called out on a blatant lie though.

    This person is probably busy proving someone in a different thread wrong. Just give it time.

    So... was that enough time? :mrgreen:

  • knite.1542knite.1542 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @knite.1542 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @knite.1542 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    He asked why it would be easier, because you wrote it would be easier. Now stop lying you "didn't make a claim".

    You must be taking that out of context.

    Yeah, totally. :lol:

    10/10 for @Obtena.7952 disappearance act after getting called out on a blatant lie though.

    This person is probably busy proving someone in a different thread wrong. Just give it time.

    So... was that enough time? :mrgreen:

    I guess they decided to go be condescending somewhere else.

    Where did you get that from? I'm not making a claim either way. I don't make assumptions like this to push my ideas ... and neither should anyone else.

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