Kalla's Fervor is Boring — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Kalla's Fervor is Boring

DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited August 2, 2019 in Revenant

Hey there!

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kalla's_Fervor

Kalla's legend inspires you, increasing your critical strike damage and condition damage; stacks intensity.


This effect passively grants 30 Ferocity, and 2% Condition Damage per stack.

When you critically strike, or attack your enemies from behind or their flanks, you'll inspire yourself with Kalla's Fervor.

Which means you basically gain 5 stacks for looking at screen.

So, without any admission I'd like to say that for me, Kalla's Fervor is the most boring design in the entirety of Revenant's kit. It seems like the Renegade's Traits and F-Skills are all built on this "mechanic" (if it can be even called mechanic). It is an illusion of active and interactive gameplay. In reality, you get max 5 stacks the second you ente the combat, so there's the first question - Why even make it stackable if you are always running at max? Wht's the point?
Have you ever seen Renegades running with less than 5 stacks?

Why is it the most boring part of Revenant's Kit?

  • it provides nothing but a flat passive damage buff to the class. It's a powercreep.
  • You don't think about the stacks, you always have max number
  • F-Skills are always going to be buffed if used in-combat
  • Spirits and F Skills feel like completely different universes, they don't share mechanics, Kalla's Fervor has 0 connection to Spirits.
  • Lasting Legacy - This one's my favorite. It's a powercreep, to buff that powercreeps the E-Spec!

  • Kalla's Fervor traits clutter the Renegade Traitline. - it's granted in addition to other effects, but that's not the point.
    • Wrought-Iron Will grants Kalla's Fervor on evade - for what?
    • Blood Fury - Fury grants you Kalla's Fervor - ?? Cool! More ways to get this incredibly hard-to-obtain buff
    • Ashen Demeanor also gives you Kalla's Fervor, why? Because you gotta get those 5 fat stacks of raw damage.

Can anyone explain to me why do we have something like this?

Now, my sweet suggestion:
Kalla's Fervor is a trash design, honestly. I think it should be closer to Warrior's Adrenaline Mechanic.

  • Kalla's Fervor actually empowers your F-Skills by a huge amount
  • Once F-Skills are used, you lose Kalla's Fervor and you have to work for it again.
  • Make Kalla's Fervor harder to get, but be more powerful.
  • Let it affect Spirits, for additional effects.

I know this won't fix any of Renegade's problem, but just from the design perspective, this buff is pure boredom garb.

Comments

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 2, 2019

    Honestly Renegade is totally boring.

    The spec was designed to literally never dodge to keep the crit buff, sit in Summons AoE, and just pew pew pew pew.

    Other than the fact that all the summons cost a literal bomb to cast, the Profession skills also cost alot to cast.

    I can see the intended gameplay too :

    Kalla was probably meant to be a commander sort of class, where yu poop out summons, order them to do things, and rouse them with Fervor.

    What it ends up is a boring class camping a single weapon, sitting in their snug little AoEs and pew pew pew pew pew.

    If not for the fact Energy system and other Legends exist, there is no reason to swap.

    In fact, one reason to swap was already removed : yu can't swap to Mallyx anymore to spend excess Energy in rotation to drop Torment fields.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't think having to manage an extra energy system on top of what we already have + cooldowns would be fun.

  • You call it a power creep as if that’s a bad thing, but Revenant only had okayish dps as Core Condi Rev previously, so there’s no reason why “powercreep” is bad in this case. In this case the “powercreep” was good because it gave Revenant more options and also gave support comps more options. And it’s not like the higher end of DPS has changed all that much since HoT launch anyway; classes are still pulling similar numbers to back then

    You acknowledge that changing Fervor won’t fix Renegade’s “problems” so I guess I’m confused why even make a post about it? Why potentially bring attention to something that probably shouldn’t get touched by the devs since it would likely do more harm than good and/or not fix the right things when reworked?

    Also just a side note, but not everything in Revenant needs reworks or what not. Like the class is pretty kitten functional as it is, just needs changes in certain areas for certain modes. I don’t understand this obsession a lot of the revenants have on this forum with completely reworking and changing literally every aspect of the class

  • @Yasai.3549 said:
    Honestly Renegade is totally boring.

    The spec was designed to literally never dodge to keep the crit buff, sit in Summons AoE, and just pew pew pew pew.

    Other than the fact that all the summons cost a literal bomb to cast, the Profession skills also cost alot to cast.

    I can see the intended gameplay too :

    Kalla was probably meant to be a commander sort of class, where yu poop out summons, order them to do things, and rouse them with Fervor.

    What it ends up is a boring class camping a single weapon, sitting in their snug little AoEs and pew pew pew pew pew.

    If not for the fact Energy system and other Legends exist, there is no reason to swap.

    In fact, one reason to swap was already removed : yu can't swap to Mallyx anymore to spend excess Energy in rotation to drop Torment fields.

    who has Mallyx in their rotation ?

  • KidRoleplay.3615KidRoleplay.3615 Member ✭✭✭

    ... Odd post that seems as if it's just looking for something to complain about. It is and has been just a buff you get for going into that spec to provide a boost to damage without anything fancy. It was never meant to be exciting. The new addition of the short bow and stance is the "interesting" part of the spec.

    Now, maybe if you said the overall visual theme to the Kalla Stance wasn't so enthralling, I'd understand, but specifically Kalla's Fervor bores YOU. Just makes me respond with, "Ooookay?"

    Anywho, good luck with that. O.o

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    You call it a power creep as if that’s a bad thing, but Revenant only had okayish dps as Core Condi Rev previously, so there’s no reason why “powercreep” is bad in this case. In this case the “powercreep” was good because it gave Revenant more options and also gave support comps more options. And it’s not like the higher end of DPS has changed all that much since HoT launch anyway; classes are still pulling similar numbers to back then

    You acknowledge that changing Fervor won’t fix Renegade’s “problems” so I guess I’m confused why even make a post about it? Why potentially bring attention to something that probably shouldn’t get touched by the devs since it would likely do more harm than good and/or not fix the right things when reworked?

    Also just a side note, but not everything in Revenant needs reworks or what not. Like the class is pretty kitten functional as it is, just needs changes in certain areas for certain modes. I don’t understand this obsession a lot of the revenants have on this forum with completely reworking and changing literally every aspect of the class

    I made a post to highlight the boring design that's behind Kalla's Fervor. I don't think it serves any purpose in any build of Revenant. It might as well be a baseline damage increase in traits. What we have now is a senseless unique buff that does actually nothing besides increasing your damage. F-Skills could also have it baseline without the need of Kalla's Fervor. It feels like people just treat Revenant as just numbers - as long as it performs okay-ish it can stay as it is. Where is the gameplay in this kind of mechanic? I understand that people like seeing big numbers and having great performance, but it's not like the numbers are in advance of an interesting gameplay.

    My point is that having a separate buff to add flavor to the Renegade E-Spec is completely useless. Kalla's Fervor is a perfect example of E-Spec being marketed by an additional function which actually brings nothing to the gameplay. This mechanic is 99% uninteractive. Renegade in its whole is actually a hell of a boring E-Spec but taking its mechanics to the next level might actually make it 2% more interesting (at least for me). And it's not like Renegade is a hard legend.

    But, nitpicking and quotewars aside. Do you think that Kalla's Fervor is an interesting buff? Does it make sense to have it as a separate buff?

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KidRoleplay.3615 said:
    ... Odd post that seems as if it's just looking for something to complain about. It is and has been just a buff you get for going into that spec to provide a boost to damage without anything fancy. It was never meant to be exciting. The new addition of the short bow and stance is the "interesting" part of the spec.

    Now, maybe if you said the overall visual theme to the Kalla Stance wasn't so enthralling, I'd understand, but specifically Kalla's Fervor bores YOU. Just makes me respond with, "Ooookay?"

    Anywho, good luck with that. O.o

    Yeah, it's an open forum so I can speak freely of what I enjoy and what not. I made this post in order to showcase a boring design that's behind an E-Spec.
    The buff itself could be actually a baseline damage increase while equipping the E-Spec, then why make it separate? For the feels? Doesn't work for me.

    I made this post just becase of the same reason I made the post hating on OH-Sword's design. I think the current design of this weapon is completely bland, just like Kalla's Fervor. The weapon itself functions as a damage filler made like an OH-Axe clone on DPS-steroids, that's it.

    Well, I don't think Renegade is a good design. I want it to be more interesting and interactive. There's currently very little thought put into the kit of Renegade and I want to show people that numbers aren't everything. We have things and concept that could work and be fun, but they aren't.

    I know this is very unlikely to be changed, but why not share my opinion about the current state of this E-Spec?

  • KidRoleplay.3615KidRoleplay.3615 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 2, 2019

    @DonArkanio.6419 said that stuff up there.

    Alright, now we're talkin'!

    See, the original post came off as you not liking Kalla's Ferver ALONE, but if it's the whole design of the e-spec that's underwhelming, that's a much better topic of discussion and one I can agree on. Also, never said ya couldn't express an opinion; that's putting words in my mouth, though to be fair I'd expect another of "me" to show up had I created a thread about ... not liking to play Rangers because they and their pets feel boring. "Ooookay?"

    Anywho, Kalla's Fervor is already baseline. You literally can't NOT choose it while simultaneously playing Renegade. I however don't feel like the e-spec is not well-thought out--That'd definitely be an insult to whomever designed it--but I'll definitely say it doesn't make the Revenant feel distinct enough in what changes it does bring. It's a spec that boosts outgoing numbers, buuut, what you're suggesting is just a tweak of those same numbers, albeit making it work closer to Malice except effecting F1-F3 skills instead of Stealthed Weapon skill 1. o.o Is that really much of a change in the way of design? Still seems borin'. (Which will always be subjective anyhow).

    But... I myself can't really bring any solutions to this conversation. Maybe with more time, I could, but definitely not at the moment as I'm soon to go to bed. To be quite honest, it feels like everything's already been done already in one way or another. And... maybe they were meant to. I mean, this whole game's founding selling points was that any class was capable of all things and that the Holy Trinity was no more. And I find myself repeating this a lot lately, but this game's gameplay variety is a lot more shallow than it appears.

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Honestly Renegade is totally boring.

    The spec was designed to literally never dodge to keep the crit buff, sit in Summons AoE, and just pew pew pew pew.

    Other than the fact that all the summons cost a literal bomb to cast, the Profession skills also cost alot to cast.

    I can see the intended gameplay too :

    Kalla was probably meant to be a commander sort of class, where yu poop out summons, order them to do things, and rouse them with Fervor.

    What it ends up is a boring class camping a single weapon, sitting in their snug little AoEs and pew pew pew pew pew.

    If not for the fact Energy system and other Legends exist, there is no reason to swap.

    In fact, one reason to swap was already removed : yu can't swap to Mallyx anymore to spend excess Energy in rotation to drop Torment fields.

    who has Mallyx in their rotation ?

    Literally everyone who's playing dps renegade in raids or divinegade vs NPNG in fractals.

  • @narcx.3570 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Honestly Renegade is totally boring.

    The spec was designed to literally never dodge to keep the crit buff, sit in Summons AoE, and just pew pew pew pew.

    Other than the fact that all the summons cost a literal bomb to cast, the Profession skills also cost alot to cast.

    I can see the intended gameplay too :

    Kalla was probably meant to be a commander sort of class, where yu poop out summons, order them to do things, and rouse them with Fervor.

    What it ends up is a boring class camping a single weapon, sitting in their snug little AoEs and pew pew pew pew pew.

    If not for the fact Energy system and other Legends exist, there is no reason to swap.

    In fact, one reason to swap was already removed : yu can't swap to Mallyx anymore to spend excess Energy in rotation to drop Torment fields.

    who has Mallyx in their rotation ?

    Literally everyone who's playing dps renegade in raids or divinegade vs NPNG in fractals.

    I wanted to bet on Dps Renegade ^^ but it as diviner you are absolute wrong https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/renegade/alacrity/
    You take Shiro and Kalle because of cc . In fraktal cms its a common problem that people take Mallyx and the whole group the has too less cc then

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah, that's about it. It just feels like it;s not complete. I mean, the designer could have a great idea but then came the programmers who said: "Na-uh, it can't work like this". That is a totally valid argument, unless there are E-Specs which designs of are just amazing. For me, no matter the numbers, the gameplay alwyas comes first. Even if something isn't meta, go-to, I might still like it just because of pure fun it gives me.

    Kalla's Fervor is a buff that is in fact built-in to the Renegade's Traitline, and I completely understand it. We don't have any power over it. The fact that it's a distinct element and it's there doing literally nothing but stats just drives me mad. Berserker gains 15% attack speed while in Berserk Mode. It also loses 300 Toughness but it doesn't work as a separate buff that seems to be a mechanic / trade-off.
    It's just that Kalla's Fervor might be more of an eye-candy that an actual thing. If ANet just decided to spread kalla's Fervor dmg boost among trats people would have noticed only beacause of the lack of icon on UI. I hope you get what I mean.

    I hate mechancs that could potentially be wildly interesting and game-changing, but end up being as flat, bland and boring and Kalla's Fervor. And as you said - maybe these things were just meant to be the way they are - which leaves us hopeless. But I think we can improve a lot of mechanics by changing these kinds of things.

    Just imagine if Kalla's Fervor functioned like Warrior's Adrenline - Kalla was a Warrior, your energy is swapped with some kind of Mist-fuel that actually empowers all of your abilities - here a concept. It doesn't have to be ineteresting for everybody. It' just the fact that instead of anything interactive, we are left with passive mechanics.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Since day one I never understand Kalla’s fervor. Passive high multipleyer that has no purpose but to inflate renegade damage in PvE. And the funny thing is that every thing about keeps getting nerfed specifically for that reason. I think the stacks should be removed completely from the game, and rebalance is done on condi rev.

    Renegade is poster boy for class design epic fail.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The spirits should rather emulate skills similar to rangers maul skill (skill 2) so the spirit is just the animation and the skill is used by the rev itself.
    Only one I would keep as an animated spirit should be the interrupt one. The spirit should only be as a visible cue and not as a real entity.
    The heal should be PbAoE character bound.
    Ice razors ire should be executed by you with one single sweep with both arms and not that stupid arm wiggling.
    And the utility buff one should be literally like maul from ranger just with a charr in the background and yeetibg a GS through the air that leaves behind a field that provides the buff.

    Overall renegade eneeds a total redesign and another class mechanic but whatever.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Honestly Renegade is totally boring.

    The spec was designed to literally never dodge to keep the crit buff, sit in Summons AoE, and just pew pew pew pew.

    Other than the fact that all the summons cost a literal bomb to cast, the Profession skills also cost alot to cast.

    I can see the intended gameplay too :

    Kalla was probably meant to be a commander sort of class, where yu poop out summons, order them to do things, and rouse them with Fervor.

    What it ends up is a boring class camping a single weapon, sitting in their snug little AoEs and pew pew pew pew pew.

    If not for the fact Energy system and other Legends exist, there is no reason to swap.

    In fact, one reason to swap was already removed : yu can't swap to Mallyx anymore to spend excess Energy in rotation to drop Torment fields.

    who has Mallyx in their rotation ?

    Literally everyone who's playing dps renegade in raids or divinegade vs NPNG in fractals.

    I use mine with power precision healing power and condi stats.

  • @DonArkanio.6419 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    You call it a power creep as if that’s a bad thing, but Revenant only had okayish dps as Core Condi Rev previously, so there’s no reason why “powercreep” is bad in this case. In this case the “powercreep” was good because it gave Revenant more options and also gave support comps more options. And it’s not like the higher end of DPS has changed all that much since HoT launch anyway; classes are still pulling similar numbers to back then

    You acknowledge that changing Fervor won’t fix Renegade’s “problems” so I guess I’m confused why even make a post about it? Why potentially bring attention to something that probably shouldn’t get touched by the devs since it would likely do more harm than good and/or not fix the right things when reworked?

    Also just a side note, but not everything in Revenant needs reworks or what not. Like the class is pretty kitten functional as it is, just needs changes in certain areas for certain modes. I don’t understand this obsession a lot of the revenants have on this forum with completely reworking and changing literally every aspect of the class

    I made a post to highlight the boring design that's behind Kalla's Fervor. I don't think it serves any purpose in any build of Revenant. It might as well be a baseline damage increase in traits. What we have now is a senseless unique buff that does actually nothing besides increasing your damage. F-Skills could also have it baseline without the need of Kalla's Fervor. It feels like people just treat Revenant as just numbers - as long as it performs okay-ish it can stay as it is. Where is the gameplay in this kind of mechanic? I understand that people like seeing big numbers and having great performance, but it's not like the numbers are in advance of an interesting gameplay.

    My point is that having a separate buff to add flavor to the Renegade E-Spec is completely useless. Kalla's Fervor is a perfect example of E-Spec being marketed by an additional function which actually brings nothing to the gameplay. This mechanic is 99% uninteractive. Renegade in its whole is actually a hell of a boring E-Spec but taking its mechanics to the next level might actually make it 2% more interesting (at least for me). And it's not like Renegade is a hard legend.

    But, nitpicking and quotewars aside. Do you think that Kalla's Fervor is an interesting buff? Does it make sense to have it as a separate buff?

    The purpose it serves is to boost damage where Revenant needed it and also add effects based on grandmaster choice. It’s other purpose is to encourage staying in a fight if you want to continue maintaining your fervor. If you start doing extreme kiting or focusing too much on survivability in an open world or pvp/WvW situation, it’s absolutely possible for fervor to drop off. The buff really shouldn’t be seen as much more than a damage increase honestly, which is fine because it’s not game breaking and honestly necessary. The renegade mechanics mostly come from the new F skills. I mean, in comparison it’s not like Herald has crazy new mechanics either. The legends themselves for Revenant elites are much more the new mechanics than our F skills or things like Kalla’s fervor, but this is because Rev is a fairly different class than most other classes and has different functionality. I mean, just look at Thief, its “new mechanics” are barely different than core as well, just changes to Steal and then some other effect. Not everything needs to be like Firebrand levels of different where they get 15 added skills to replace their core F skills.

    Also I agree with clownmug if you start adding too much to the class it becomes too much to focus on. We already have energy + cooldowns managing an adrenaline type mechanic could be annoying and overly complicated.

    As to your last question I think it works fine as a separate buff. I don’t think it needs to be super engaging or interesting because its purpose isn’t to be super engaging. Its purpose is to give passive effects and damage boost while actively fighting and it achieves that. So yeah, I like Fervor and don’t mind it.

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2, 2019

    Well, I agree that not every E-Spec has to bring a ton of changes to class and Kalla's Fervor might actually work as intended (though I think kiting example is a bit of exaggaration). It might serve its purpose just fine, but that doesn't change the fact that this mechanic sits on top of the actually unengaging and uninteractive design. This adds up to what we know as a Renegade. While such changes might seem minor, I think Kalla could actually use something that could make her feel different and harder - Kalla's Fervor, for me, is an example of a bland design that could be non-existent as a separator buff and you wouldn't notice.
    And it's not like the buff just sits there, F-Skills depend on it, it takes away Trait space while being just a passive flat damage buff.And I simply don't find it fair because there could be a lot more interesting stuff about this Spec.

    As for the Deadeye - I don't think it's well designed either. Numbers aren't a top priority for me and it seems that for current Devs they are.

    Well, what if Renegade actually changed Energy into some sort of Adrenaline?

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2, 2019

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Honestly Renegade is totally boring.

    The spec was designed to literally never dodge to keep the crit buff, sit in Summons AoE, and just pew pew pew pew.

    Other than the fact that all the summons cost a literal bomb to cast, the Profession skills also cost alot to cast.

    I can see the intended gameplay too :

    Kalla was probably meant to be a commander sort of class, where yu poop out summons, order them to do things, and rouse them with Fervor.

    What it ends up is a boring class camping a single weapon, sitting in their snug little AoEs and pew pew pew pew pew.

    If not for the fact Energy system and other Legends exist, there is no reason to swap.

    In fact, one reason to swap was already removed : yu can't swap to Mallyx anymore to spend excess Energy in rotation to drop Torment fields.

    who has Mallyx in their rotation ?

    Literally everyone who's playing dps renegade in raids or divinegade vs NPNG in fractals.

    I wanted to bet on Dps Renegade ^^ but it as diviner you are absolute wrong https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/renegade/alacrity/
    You take Shiro and Kalle because of cc . In fraktal cms its a common problem that people take Mallyx and the whole group the has too less cc then

    As I said, you take it vs NPNG (No Pain, No Gain), for Banish Enchantment. Unless your group has a Sbk BS (but that's an overall dps loss over having the rev go Mallyx.)

    (I should also point out that Jade Winds only does 84 more defiance damage than Call to Anguish does now... So Mallyx is not w/o cc if you have to--but everyone should be using consumables anyways in cm's...)

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This is due to the limitations in the Revenant class mechanics and how Elite Specs can evolve off this. Because of the way Legends work and Energy works, the class cant change much in each Elite Spec other than adding Passives, Upkeep skills, Energy skills, or new Legend skills. They cant add a whole new mechanic to replace Energy or change how Energy work, which is why they were limited to a passive "Boon" or sorts as the mechanic of choice for the Renegade.

  • @DonArkanio.6419 said:
    Well, I agree that not every E-Spec has to bring a ton of changes to class and Kalla's Fervor might actually work as intended (though I think kiting example is a bit of exaggaration). It might serve its purpose just fine, but that doesn't change the fact that this mechanic sits on top of the actually unengaging and uninteractive design. This adds up to what we know as a Renegade. While such changes might seem minor, I think Kalla could actually use something that could make her feel different and harder - Kalla's Fervor, for me, is an example of a bland design that could be non-existent as a separator buff and you wouldn't notice.
    And it's not like the buff just sits there, F-Skills depend on it, it takes away Trait space while being just a passive flat damage buff.And I simply don't find it fair because there could be a lot more interesting stuff about this Spec.

    I dunno, I don't find it any more or less engaging than the rest of Revenant, because ultimately that's what it is; it's Revenant. To me it's engaging enough simply because, as mentioned, it's Revenant, and I find Rev quite engaging regardless of additional elite mechanics. As mentioned earlier, it's not like Herald has any "engaging" mechanics either really

    I'm not sure why you'd want to make Kalla harder when Renegade already has one of the harder/hardest DPS rotations due to how tight the rotation actually is and how dependent on alacrity it is, not to mention how you have to improvise a fair amount if you make a mistake or have kitten alacrity. And Renegade is also not that great in PvP or WvW, so just making it harder to add some sort of additional mechanic wouldn't necessarily solve that issue.

    The trait space isn't wasted though (except maybe the major adepts, those should get reworked, I hate them all) and it's not like the buff isn't in line with other classes and we're missing out on something. It's actually (potentially) a better minor adept trait than a lot of other elites since it has several effects. Dragonhunter's minor adept for example only swaps the F skills and provides nothing else, whereas "Ambush Commander" provides Kalla's fervor and 3 new F Skills . The reason I say "potentially" is that the issues with Ren (at least in competitive pvp/wvw, it's fine in PvE) don't stem from a lacking Minor Adept trait, but how the class and its various parts function as a whole. Also side note, Renegade can actually bunker points pretty hard at the moment if you know what you're doing with it and build it right; they need to be careful with how they rework/buff it as it could easily become a fairly OP spec

    I wouldn't really call it "unfair" though since it provides as much if not more than various other elites. I'm not sure "fairness" is the term that should be applied here or really suits what you mean

    As for the Deadeye - I don't think it's well designed either. Numbers aren't a top priority for me and it seems that for current Devs they are.

    It's not just Deadeye, but Daredevil too. That's why I was making a flat comparison to both Thief elites. Numbers are important because they directly tie in to how well accepted a spec is by the majority of the playerbase, which is important for a team oriented game.. No one likes to feel like their entire class is meaningless (as has happened before with Revenant in PvE) just because they can't provide enough whether it be DPS/Support/or anything else. The target should be for classes to have comparable numbers within a certain range as it helps prevent toxicity to some extent within the community and breaks down those perceived barriers. Since the Devs are trying to foster a healthy game environment (theoretically) it should definitely be a priority to make sure all specs have some sort of viable use whether it be some level of viable DPS (I'd say 31-33k minimum, condi slightly higher due to ramp time) or support

    Well, what if Renegade actually changed Energy into some sort of Adrenaline?

    If they changed Energy into some sort of Adrenaline they'd have to rework how the entire core class operates when specced into renegade, and that sounds complicated and messy

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 3, 2019

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Honestly Renegade is totally boring.

    The spec was designed to literally never dodge to keep the crit buff, sit in Summons AoE, and just pew pew pew pew.

    Other than the fact that all the summons cost a literal bomb to cast, the Profession skills also cost alot to cast.

    I can see the intended gameplay too :

    Kalla was probably meant to be a commander sort of class, where yu poop out summons, order them to do things, and rouse them with Fervor.

    What it ends up is a boring class camping a single weapon, sitting in their snug little AoEs and pew pew pew pew pew.

    If not for the fact Energy system and other Legends exist, there is no reason to swap.

    In fact, one reason to swap was already removed : yu can't swap to Mallyx anymore to spend excess Energy in rotation to drop Torment fields.

    who has Mallyx in their rotation ?

    Literally everyone who's playing dps renegade in raids or divinegade vs NPNG in fractals.

    I wanted to bet on Dps Renegade ^^ but it as diviner you are absolute wrong https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/renegade/alacrity/
    You take Shiro and Kalle because of cc . In fraktal cms its a common problem that people take Mallyx and the whole group the has too less cc then

    uh if you as rev don't take malyx, then you are doing it wrong

    i see you are one of those "shiro and kalla" only folks, cuz that is what snowcrows says.
    amazing tho, since snowcrows are for raids, and not for fractals

    https://discretize.eu/builds/revenant/hybrid-renegade

    i think this clearly says you should run jalis + kalla.
    you only switch out jallis for malyx if there is no pain no gain

    if you don't need stability (skorvald, mama= jalis for that sole reason alone ) or cc (forced engagement on jalis is a very good cc skill with 500 breakbar damage) then and only then can you take shiro, as last option

    i mean forced engagement + staff 5, switch to kalla, switch to sword put down soulcleave and icerazor and you are ready for a good opening burst, while still providin everything that makes renegade great

    people really need to stop mixing gamemodes, and spread wrong information

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Honestly Renegade is totally boring.

    The spec was designed to literally never dodge to keep the crit buff, sit in Summons AoE, and just pew pew pew pew.

    Other than the fact that all the summons cost a literal bomb to cast, the Profession skills also cost alot to cast.

    I can see the intended gameplay too :

    Kalla was probably meant to be a commander sort of class, where yu poop out summons, order them to do things, and rouse them with Fervor.

    What it ends up is a boring class camping a single weapon, sitting in their snug little AoEs and pew pew pew pew pew.

    If not for the fact Energy system and other Legends exist, there is no reason to swap.

    In fact, one reason to swap was already removed : yu can't swap to Mallyx anymore to spend excess Energy in rotation to drop Torment fields.

    who has Mallyx in their rotation ?

    Literally everyone who's playing dps renegade in raids or divinegade vs NPNG in fractals.

    I wanted to bet on Dps Renegade ^^ but it as diviner you are absolute wrong https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/renegade/alacrity/
    You take Shiro and Kalle because of cc . In fraktal cms its a common problem that people take Mallyx and the whole group the has too less cc then

    uh if you as rev don't take malyx, then you are doing it wrong

    i see you are one of those "shiro and kalla" only folks, cuz that is what snowcrows says.
    amazing tho, since snowcrows are for raids, and not for fractals

    https://discretize.eu/builds/revenant/hybrid-renegade

    i think this clearly says you should run jalis + kalla.
    you only switch out jallis for malyx if there is no pain no gain

    if you don't need stability (skorvald, mama= jalis for that sole reason alone ) or cc (forced engagement on jalis is a very good cc skill with 500 breakbar damage) then and only then can you take shiro, as last option

    i mean forced engagement + staff 5, switch to kalla, switch to sword put down soulcleave and icerazor and you are ready for a good opening burst, while still providin everything that makes renegade great

    people really need to stop mixing gamemodes, and spread wrong information

    I died a little inside the he referred me to SHNEEEWWWCREWWWZZzzzz, lol. :bleep_bloop:

    I will say that I really like Shiro on all three 99cm bosses tho (unless it's npng)... Divinegade has enough pewpew to do like 2.5-3 of the adds on Siax to save the day if yer in a super fail pug thanks to PT and sw5's mobility. Although if I'm being honest with myself, I should prolly still be bringing dwarf on the 1st and 3rd bosses there for stab (and rotgd in bad groups), but zzzzzz...

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Honestly Renegade is totally boring.

    The spec was designed to literally never dodge to keep the crit buff, sit in Summons AoE, and just pew pew pew pew.

    Other than the fact that all the summons cost a literal bomb to cast, the Profession skills also cost alot to cast.

    I can see the intended gameplay too :

    Kalla was probably meant to be a commander sort of class, where yu poop out summons, order them to do things, and rouse them with Fervor.

    What it ends up is a boring class camping a single weapon, sitting in their snug little AoEs and pew pew pew pew pew.

    If not for the fact Energy system and other Legends exist, there is no reason to swap.

    In fact, one reason to swap was already removed : yu can't swap to Mallyx anymore to spend excess Energy in rotation to drop Torment fields.

    who has Mallyx in their rotation ?

    Literally everyone who's playing dps renegade in raids or divinegade vs NPNG in fractals.

    I wanted to bet on Dps Renegade ^^ but it as diviner you are absolute wrong https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/renegade/alacrity/
    You take Shiro and Kalle because of cc . In fraktal cms its a common problem that people take Mallyx and the whole group the has too less cc then

    uh if you as rev don't take malyx, then you are doing it wrong

    i see you are one of those "shiro and kalla" only folks, cuz that is what snowcrows says.
    amazing tho, since snowcrows are for raids, and not for fractals

    https://discretize.eu/builds/revenant/hybrid-renegade

    i think this clearly says you should run jalis + kalla.
    you only switch out jallis for malyx if there is no pain no gain

    if you don't need stability (skorvald, mama= jalis for that sole reason alone ) or cc (forced engagement on jalis is a very good cc skill with 500 breakbar damage) then and only then can you take shiro, as last option

    i mean forced engagement + staff 5, switch to kalla, switch to sword put down soulcleave and icerazor and you are ready for a good opening burst, while still providin everything that makes renegade great

    people really need to stop mixing gamemodes, and spread wrong information

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Honestly Renegade is totally boring.

    The spec was designed to literally never dodge to keep the crit buff, sit in Summons AoE, and just pew pew pew pew.

    Other than the fact that all the summons cost a literal bomb to cast, the Profession skills also cost alot to cast.

    I can see the intended gameplay too :

    Kalla was probably meant to be a commander sort of class, where yu poop out summons, order them to do things, and rouse them with Fervor.

    What it ends up is a boring class camping a single weapon, sitting in their snug little AoEs and pew pew pew pew pew.

    If not for the fact Energy system and other Legends exist, there is no reason to swap.

    In fact, one reason to swap was already removed : yu can't swap to Mallyx anymore to spend excess Energy in rotation to drop Torment fields.

    who has Mallyx in their rotation ?

    Literally everyone who's playing dps renegade in raids or divinegade vs NPNG in fractals.

    I wanted to bet on Dps Renegade ^^ but it as diviner you are absolute wrong https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/renegade/alacrity/
    You take Shiro and Kalle because of cc . In fraktal cms its a common problem that people take Mallyx and the whole group the has too less cc then

    uh if you as rev don't take malyx, then you are doing it wrong

    i see you are one of those "shiro and kalla" only folks, cuz that is what snowcrows says.
    amazing tho, since snowcrows are for raids, and not for fractals

    https://discretize.eu/builds/revenant/hybrid-renegade

    i think this clearly says you should run jalis + kalla.
    you only switch out jallis for malyx if there is no pain no gain

    if you don't need stability (skorvald, mama= jalis for that sole reason alone ) or cc (forced engagement on jalis is a very good cc skill with 500 breakbar damage) then and only then can you take shiro, as last option

    i mean forced engagement + staff 5, switch to kalla, switch to sword put down soulcleave and icerazor and you are ready for a good opening burst, while still providin everything that makes renegade great

    people really need to stop mixing gamemodes, and spread wrong information

    I died a little inside the he referred me to SHNEEEWWWCREWWWZZzzzz, lol. :bleep_bloop:

    I will say that I really like Shiro on all three 99cm bosses tho (unless it's npng)... Divinegade has enough pewpew to do like 2.5-3 of the adds on Siax to save the day if yer in a super fail pug thanks to PT and sw5's mobility. Although if I'm being honest with myself, I should prolly still be bringing dwarf on the 1st and 3rd bosses there for stab (and rotgd in bad groups), but zzzzzz...

    I mean, that's all cool but it is nowhere near related to the design of Renegade or the Kalla's Fervor. I like the discussion but would like to stick to the subject.
    Thanks a lot!

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DonArkanio.6419 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Honestly Renegade is totally boring.

    The spec was designed to literally never dodge to keep the crit buff, sit in Summons AoE, and just pew pew pew pew.

    Other than the fact that all the summons cost a literal bomb to cast, the Profession skills also cost alot to cast.

    I can see the intended gameplay too :

    Kalla was probably meant to be a commander sort of class, where yu poop out summons, order them to do things, and rouse them with Fervor.

    What it ends up is a boring class camping a single weapon, sitting in their snug little AoEs and pew pew pew pew pew.

    If not for the fact Energy system and other Legends exist, there is no reason to swap.

    In fact, one reason to swap was already removed : yu can't swap to Mallyx anymore to spend excess Energy in rotation to drop Torment fields.

    who has Mallyx in their rotation ?

    Literally everyone who's playing dps renegade in raids or divinegade vs NPNG in fractals.

    I wanted to bet on Dps Renegade ^^ but it as diviner you are absolute wrong https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/renegade/alacrity/
    You take Shiro and Kalle because of cc . In fraktal cms its a common problem that people take Mallyx and the whole group the has too less cc then

    uh if you as rev don't take malyx, then you are doing it wrong

    i see you are one of those "shiro and kalla" only folks, cuz that is what snowcrows says.
    amazing tho, since snowcrows are for raids, and not for fractals

    https://discretize.eu/builds/revenant/hybrid-renegade

    i think this clearly says you should run jalis + kalla.
    you only switch out jallis for malyx if there is no pain no gain

    if you don't need stability (skorvald, mama= jalis for that sole reason alone ) or cc (forced engagement on jalis is a very good cc skill with 500 breakbar damage) then and only then can you take shiro, as last option

    i mean forced engagement + staff 5, switch to kalla, switch to sword put down soulcleave and icerazor and you are ready for a good opening burst, while still providin everything that makes renegade great

    people really need to stop mixing gamemodes, and spread wrong information

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Honestly Renegade is totally boring.

    The spec was designed to literally never dodge to keep the crit buff, sit in Summons AoE, and just pew pew pew pew.

    Other than the fact that all the summons cost a literal bomb to cast, the Profession skills also cost alot to cast.

    I can see the intended gameplay too :

    Kalla was probably meant to be a commander sort of class, where yu poop out summons, order them to do things, and rouse them with Fervor.

    What it ends up is a boring class camping a single weapon, sitting in their snug little AoEs and pew pew pew pew pew.

    If not for the fact Energy system and other Legends exist, there is no reason to swap.

    In fact, one reason to swap was already removed : yu can't swap to Mallyx anymore to spend excess Energy in rotation to drop Torment fields.

    who has Mallyx in their rotation ?

    Literally everyone who's playing dps renegade in raids or divinegade vs NPNG in fractals.

    I wanted to bet on Dps Renegade ^^ but it as diviner you are absolute wrong https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/renegade/alacrity/
    You take Shiro and Kalle because of cc . In fraktal cms its a common problem that people take Mallyx and the whole group the has too less cc then

    uh if you as rev don't take malyx, then you are doing it wrong

    i see you are one of those "shiro and kalla" only folks, cuz that is what snowcrows says.
    amazing tho, since snowcrows are for raids, and not for fractals

    https://discretize.eu/builds/revenant/hybrid-renegade

    i think this clearly says you should run jalis + kalla.
    you only switch out jallis for malyx if there is no pain no gain

    if you don't need stability (skorvald, mama= jalis for that sole reason alone ) or cc (forced engagement on jalis is a very good cc skill with 500 breakbar damage) then and only then can you take shiro, as last option

    i mean forced engagement + staff 5, switch to kalla, switch to sword put down soulcleave and icerazor and you are ready for a good opening burst, while still providin everything that makes renegade great

    people really need to stop mixing gamemodes, and spread wrong information

    I died a little inside the he referred me to SHNEEEWWWCREWWWZZzzzz, lol. :bleep_bloop:

    I will say that I really like Shiro on all three 99cm bosses tho (unless it's npng)... Divinegade has enough pewpew to do like 2.5-3 of the adds on Siax to save the day if yer in a super fail pug thanks to PT and sw5's mobility. Although if I'm being honest with myself, I should prolly still be bringing dwarf on the 1st and 3rd bosses there for stab (and rotgd in bad groups), but zzzzzz...

    I mean, that's all cool but it is nowhere near related to the design of Renegade or the Kalla's Fervor. I like the discussion but would like to stick to the subject.
    Thanks a lot!

    a tl.dr version of your discussion, answered by yourself

    @DonArkanio.6419 said:
    It doesn't have to be ineteresting for everybody.

    i heard firebrand is fun, enjoy your new class

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    remove the energy cost from revenant f-skills and have them instead consume kalla feror? Sort of like adrenaline/lifeforce/astralforce. Would give revenants a builder energy pool while maintaining a passive one for regular skills.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Personally, as a slowly dying man with tremors and bad wrist pain, I happen to like "boring." Though personally I would call it "low maintenance" and "simple." I already have to watch my character, my skill bar, my energy bar, my teammates, and my enemies. I don't want to also have to watch my buff bar to deal with an even more needlessly complicated mechanic.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • All I got from this is that OP doesnt know what power creep means

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konrad Curze.5130 said:
    All I got from this is that OP doesnt know what power creep means

    Why laugh at me when I am pointing out what bothers me?

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.