Inexcusable bias from arena net , this behavior has to stop - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Inexcusable bias from arena net , this behavior has to stop

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  • Aaralyna.3104Aaralyna.3104 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chiuvitas.8946 said:
    People are even trying to side-track this topic. It isn't about chaotic interruption. I made the topic because of CI but the main issue to me is the way mesmer is treated.

    As another user pointed out above,

    @Xstein.2187 said:
    Chaotic Interruption: immobilizing since June 25, 2013

    6 years later: CI removed middle of season because quick hot fix not possible.

    My question is, if a hot fix wasn't possible in 6 years, how long is a normal fix going to take?

    Chaotic Interruption is going to end up like Elusive Mind anyways and never be used again after the next balance patch. So, what is the difference between that and just removing it now?

    the trait has been in the same since 2013? so how did arena net suddenly decide it's so OP that it needs a HOTFIX ? that's unheard of except ofcourse when it comes to mesmer. As is 67% damage nerf on axe and 50% damage nerf on scepter.

    last year scepter was buffed due to underperforming and never being used, this year scepter was nerfed and made WEAKER than before the buffs it received last year. If arena net ADMITTED THAT THE WEAPON IS UNDERPERFORMING/BAD and buffed it to make it viable, why did they go back on their word? Because of bias. Because the balance team changed and the new team absolutely hates mesmer with passion so they do irrational changes with irrational behavior that makes no sense

    @Aaralyna.3104 said:
    I picked mesmer back in the days as I liked the theme and playstyle. Upgraded from core mesmer to chrono (stayed power dps with doing my own things and not following a build guide). Played some other classes aside as well. And I can simply not deny mesmer/chrono/mirage was incredibly OP (and I am not in high rankings/don't do AT's/don't do raids and my dps output is low). Chronomancer is brought down to acceptable level now after last balance patch (gave feedback on it in other threads). I am even fine with the need to have a clone to use any shatters. However, core mesmer should be adapted to that same system of needing clones to use them and have the same lower damage output as chrono atm. And the same thing applies to mirages. Mirages are still incredibly op. If I see a mesmer in pvp its always a mirage.

    if you admit you aren't high elo and don't do good in pve > why would you go around giving your opinion?

    That's like saying i was once in the cockpit of a plane and i can't drive a plane but heres my opinion on how u should drive a plane even tho i've never done it myself.
    Get legendary with mirage in its current state and then come here and say it's op because of this and that reason and i'll believe your opinion and it'll have more influence and impact on me.

    I can say that as I am on similar levels with all my other classes and I can tell the ones that perform better (easier/faster to kill things compared to others) based on that. If something like 1 shots an open world mob and another char with similar gears cannot well, its obvious.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I called for an emergency CI nerf when we first got the balance patch preview and there was no mention of it. This might be the only time I've seen them straight up disable something in game before though. Like Sandswell was disabled due to being bugged during the demo weekend I think? But that's about it.

    Pretty extreme. To be honest I'd figured they'd just quick hotfix a 15s ICD into the trait or something. But frankly something was needed fast, and whatever was faster was more important.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Chiuvitas.8946Chiuvitas.8946 Member ✭✭
    edited August 4, 2019

    @zoopop.5630 said:
    Mesmer the ONLY CLASS i seen get nerf for over a kitten year and still somehow finds itself with an OP build.

    how do you define OP? Because mesmer is the least played class on plat 3 and legendary after elementalist which at times is actually more played.

    zero mesmers in top 20/legendary

    zero mesmers winning monthly AT cus nobody even plays it

    those are some of the facts, not even my opinions, i'm not giving my opinion but asking you how do you define what OP is because i don't think OP in your mind is the same as op in the real world

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chiuvitas.8946 said:

    @zoopop.5630 said:
    Mesmer the ONLY CLASS i seen get nerf for over a kitten year and still somehow finds itself with an OP build.

    how do you define OP? Because mesmer is the least played class on plat 3 and legendary after elementalist which at times is actually more played.

    zero mesmers in top 20/legendary

    zero mesmers winning monthly AT cus nobody even plays it

    those are some of the facts, not even my opinions, i'm not giving my opinion but asking you how do you define what OP is because i don't think OP in your mind is the same as op in the real world

    Because something doesn't get played in monthly makes it completely safe and balance ? Mesmer has been an issue for years...every trait they have is strong and almost every utility they have is just as strong as other classes if not even stronger. The entire Chaos trait line is busted and has been for a long time. Holo is Busted as kitten and we haven't seen holo in Monthly.... but hey i guess that just means holo are balance and not need anymore nerfs?

    Basing everything off Monthly or a rank status is probably stupid imo. If a spec is completely unfun to play and is allowed to spam a butt load of condition on to someone with 0 follow up combos then that itself shows why the spec was disable.

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It doesn't matter whether a broken gimmick is abused at bronze or legend. What matters is if it's fair and fun. If it's not, it has to change.

    Ideally, a build would be at least 90% fun for people trying it and 80% fun for people facing against it. Fun when fighting, not fun for looking at numbers rating and pip numbers go up after winning.
    But ideals are not easy to attain.
    75%/50% would still pretty decent, when you start getting lower than that, it's time to keep and eye on things.

    But broken gimmicks are often hardly any fun for those fighting against them, barely any fun for those who can play them but chose not to because they are just cheap and boring gimmicks, and for those spineless and unscrupulous enough to abuse them, they tend to be rather fun, but it's fun at the expense of other players, both on the enemy team and in your own team., and not fun for having engaging fights, but fun for getting cheap or quicky wins or from aggravating the opponent.

    So they simply have to go. There's two teams with five players each. All have the right to have fun, but none have the right to have it at the expense of everyone else's fun.

  • @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Chiuvitas.8946 said:

    if you admit you aren't high elo and don't do good in pve > why would you go around giving your opinion?

    That's like saying i was once in the cockpit of a plane and i can't drive a plane but heres my opinion on how u should drive a plane even tho i've never done it myself.
    Get legendary with mirage in its current state and then come here and say it's op because of this and that reason and i'll believe your opinion and it'll have more influence and impact on me.

    You have multiple, top 10 players in this thread (one of them has won every single monthly on NA) telling you that you're wrong btw.

    They don't want t o know the truth from players who are better than them on literally every single class and understand the game mode better than them. Sad reality for this game mode.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    It doesn't matter whether a broken gimmick is abused at bronze or legend. What matters is if it's fair and fun. If it's not, it has to change.

    Ideally, a build would be at least 90% fun for people trying it and 80% fun for people facing against it. Fun when fighting, not fun for looking at numbers rating and pip numbers go up after winning.
    But ideals are not easy to attain.
    75%/50% would still pretty decent, when you start getting lower than that, it's time to keep and eye on things.

    But broken gimmicks are often hardly any fun for those fighting against them, barely any fun for those who can play them but chose not to because they are just cheap and boring gimmicks, and for those spineless and unscrupulous enough to abuse them, they tend to be rather fun, but it's fun at the expense of other players, both on the enemy team and in your own team., and not fun for having engaging fights, but fun for getting cheap or quicky wins or from aggravating the opponent.

    So they simply have to go. There's two teams with five players each. All have the right to have fun, but none have the right to have it at the expense of everyone else's fun.

    This is all gobbly kitten.

    Nothing in any PvP game is ever or has ever been "fun to fight."

    They're fun to kill. You fight them, you aren't having fun. If you kill them you are having fun. If you die, you keep on not having fun.

    CI Mirage was just crazy over powered. If at all tier of play it had a 90% loss rate in 1v1s people would be like "I think they're fun to fight. They're kind of tricky but I don't mind them too much."

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    It doesn't matter whether a broken gimmick is abused at bronze or legend. What matters is if it's fair and fun. If it's not, it has to change.

    Ideally, a build would be at least 90% fun for people trying it and 80% fun for people facing against it. Fun when fighting, not fun for looking at numbers rating and pip numbers go up after winning.
    But ideals are not easy to attain.
    75%/50% would still pretty decent, when you start getting lower than that, it's time to keep and eye on things.

    But broken gimmicks are often hardly any fun for those fighting against them, barely any fun for those who can play them but chose not to because they are just cheap and boring gimmicks, and for those spineless and unscrupulous enough to abuse them, they tend to be rather fun, but it's fun at the expense of other players, both on the enemy team and in your own team., and not fun for having engaging fights, but fun for getting cheap or quicky wins or from aggravating the opponent.

    So they simply have to go. There's two teams with five players each. All have the right to have fun, but none have the right to have it at the expense of everyone else's fun.

    This is all gobbly kitten.

    Nothing in any PvP game is ever or has ever been "fun to fight."

    They're fun to kill. You fight them, you aren't having fun. If you kill them you are having fun. If you die, you keep on not having fun.

    CI Mirage was just crazy over powered. If at all tier of play it had a 90% loss rate in 1v1s people would be like "I think they're fun to fight. They're kind of tricky but I don't mind them too much."

    This attitude is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

    When you can only have fun when you win, not while you play, you are not really playing.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 4, 2019

    I don't have enough popcorn for all of this forum delusion and fannyflusterment.

  • @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    It doesn't matter whether a broken gimmick is abused at bronze or legend. What matters is if it's fair and fun. If it's not, it has to change.

    Ideally, a build would be at least 90% fun for people trying it and 80% fun for people facing against it. Fun when fighting, not fun for looking at numbers rating and pip numbers go up after winning.
    But ideals are not easy to attain.
    75%/50% would still pretty decent, when you start getting lower than that, it's time to keep and eye on things.

    But broken gimmicks are often hardly any fun for those fighting against them, barely any fun for those who can play them but chose not to because they are just cheap and boring gimmicks, and for those spineless and unscrupulous enough to abuse them, they tend to be rather fun, but it's fun at the expense of other players, both on the enemy team and in your own team., and not fun for having engaging fights, but fun for getting cheap or quicky wins or from aggravating the opponent.

    So they simply have to go. There's two teams with five players each. All have the right to have fun, but none have the right to have it at the expense of everyone else's fun.

    fun is subjective. I have fun fighting against CI mesmers cus they don't do damage and i know how to kill them. And no, i don't play CI mesmer

    this argument is extremely stupid, i dont have fun playing against broken classes like revenant and thief instead so why aren't they nerfed? They aren't just unfun to fight but also over-picked and overpowered

  • @Chiuvitas.8946 said:
    If CI is so good why isn't there a single mirage in top20/legendary elo in europe? And no. You are not a high elo mirage

    Well... Top 2 EU played mirage this season btw ^^

    That's my alt account btw

  • @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Just wondering, wasn't Jessica Parker fired for arguing with a player? What is going to happen with someone who called part of the playerbase "degenerate"?

    Literally nothing because degenerate play is a very specific term in game design and competitive gaming and there was nothing wrong with the terminology regarding CI Mirage last patch.

    A degenerate strategy is a way of playing a video game that exploits an oversight in gameplay mechanics or design.

    Degenerate strategies do not break the rules of a game like a code or a cheat, but they do prevent the game from being experienced in the manner intended by the game designer.

    https://www.techopedia.com/definition/27042/degenerate-strategy

    I learned something today.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Chilli.2976Chilli.2976 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2019

    I'm still stomping people without CI - it was a problem to players' classes that recently got nerfed and they couldn't play anything else.

  • Vicariuz.1605Vicariuz.1605 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2019

    @blitzkrieg.2451 said:

    @Vicariuz.1605 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

    @Vicariuz.1605 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:
    Lmfao I lost braincells reading this post. People actually exist who think disabling this trait was a bad move or not a good idea by anet? XD

    Also, just an fyi mesmer has been the most favored class by anet in pvp for years for us top players its not even a debate. Since the dawn of time no other class has seen the highs that mesmer has seen from mantra one shot pre hot, to bunker chrono, to condi chrono, to bunker chrono again with phantasm rework(which also had to get hotfixed) to broken condi mirage. Even with this trait gone mirage is still good and has viable builds. No other class in HISTORY has been this oppressive from pre hot all the way to this moment and if you think mesmer isn't favored you either lack information or are delusional.

    Disabling the trait was absolutely a bad idea. As an fyi there was how long of a time where Helseth, a top player, was the ONLY person playing mesmer at all? If you think that mesmer is the most oppressive class the game has ever seen please feel free to remember 5 necro teams in ranked after Dhuumfire buff, 5 cele ele comps, cele meta in general, among a plethora of other specific cases where mesmer was not even to be seen.

    I understand that spamming your entire skill bar is "fun" but CI was the perfect counter to BAD play, punishing those who played on auto pilot instead of ACTIVELY using their brain cells. If you want an example of this I will be more than willing to link SEVERAL Boyce vods, alone, where CI mesmers get facerolled by holo; when CI was able to be beaten by SEVERAL classes on SEVERAL builds. The only applicable build for mirage now is power, specifically one of your team members builds, which I dare say, is just as mindless due to it's 10+ seconds of invuln and evade frames and interrupt spam on sword ambush, while dumping its burst (which is essentially a 1shot burst mind you). Condi mirage will now be a glass cannon who's cannonball is rendered absolutely useless to 1 fb, and will STILL get facerolled by holo.

    It's VERY interesting to me that not only are the monthly tournaments gone until further notice (aka until CI is "fixed" since they "forgot" to in the last patch) but any build that's not essentially a mirror is being nerfed into being unplayable or literally disabled from play.

    No worries though, there are still builds that will farm meta comps. Due to Anet's lack of CAPACITY for balancing this game, there will literally always be builds that are "degenerate."

    Side note: extremely unprofessional of a dev describing CI as "degenerate" when it's been unchanged for MONTHS and only saw play from an extreme minority of players (because the narrative was that the former IH build was the only viable one when in actuality Dune Cloak (now gutted as well) was a much better option), when the devs were the ones to pigeonhole the class into these kinds of playstyles from nerf after nerf after nerf to every other option.

    Second side note: You want to nerf mirage correctly? Start with IH, careful though, you might nerf power mirage too ;]

    You are so misinformed its unreal. This is the last time I'm posting here because clearly anyone defending CI lacks information and is probably low-mid gold. Firstly, when did I ever say IH wasn't a problem? And when did I say I couldn't deal with ci mirages? I have spent this entire season farming ci mirages ON NECRO and holo which has a much easier go of it. That doesn't mean the trait is okay because good players can deal with it. Being able to immobilize someone instantly off of daze mantra or a first tick chaos storm is NOT HEALTHY. An entire 3 seconds and it was such an epidemic for most people they had to disable it. The way the trait worked with that iteration of mirage IS degenerate. Mantras are instant and have no tell because the 'tradeoff XD' is that you have to charge it, well guess what you can charge mantra into your mirage cloak because balance. Now for IH it is so funny you mention that and try to act like I even care what happens in terms of balance when it comes to my team. Team USA will win no matter what we didnt farm every single team that plays by getting 'lucky' we all multiclass and will swap when needed. But the irony of your statement when it comes to IH is that I want IH to stay because of zeromis? You are so misinformed I legit cant believe some people like you exist. IH is a problem because of its interaction with staff and scepter(previously axe before nerfs) and how oppressive the condis were in terms of cover condis AND dmg. Do you even know how much damage IH does with power on sword/greatsword? It is a joke. Zeromis swapped to dune cloak for aoe boon steal in teamfights so your entire comments about that are invalid because if IH was deleted or disabled today we wouldnt care.

    Now for you mentioning other things being broken, unreal how even that went over your head. Other things were broken in gw2? XD really? didnt know xd. I thought that was obvious and anyone with a brain would be able to infer that. what I said was NOTHING was as oppressive as mesmer for THE ENTIRETY OF HOT AND POF. Scourge,spellbreaker,fb etc really all of them had some highs but none of those highs were as strong as mesmer and none were for that long. You mentioning dhuumfire scourge when it was broken for 2 weeks then anet nerfed it is comical, i am talking about almost the entirety of this games existence. Cele ele had a good run in core too, but when it got nerfed it never regained that kind of opness, but mesmer has been consistent.

    You really need to do more research or further understand how the mechanics of this game work before you start throwing out accusations, personal attacks, and extremely misinformed comments because even though I play at legend anytime I speak on balance I understand there is an entire scope of players that have to deal with certain things and top players 'dealing' with it doesnt equate to the average population(majority of players) can or want to. And that is how bad balance kills a competitive scene and people like you defending it are extremely dishonest with yourself or just outright selfish because you play it.

    LOL you seem really defensive, it's funny how if any one has a differing view than "the gods of pvp, unbeatable supreme talent beings who don't even need to try to beat any one" is "low-mid gold" or any assortment of monkey/ape etc (I'm regularly right up in plat 3+ fam <3 ).

    I'm not defending CI, I said disabling the trait is a bad idea. I understand the misconception regarding that since you seem to assume an awful AWFUL lot about me and any one else with a different view, which is fine, I'm willing to offer correction where it's needed.

    "Being able to immobilize someone instantly off of daze mantra or a first tick chaos storm is NOT HEALTHY" this I agree with, again DISABLING the trait, is NOT the solution.

    "The way the trait worked with that iteration of mirage IS degenerate." Disagree, but it's interesting that the Dev used the same terminology that streamers use for something that isn't REALLY a problem if you were using your brain while fighting against it (this can be proven through vods of you and other streamers).

    "Mantras are instant and have no tell because the 'tradeoff XD' is that you have to charge it, well guess what you can charge mantra into your mirage cloak because balance." This doesn't seem to be a problem with CI, it seems to be a problem with mantras, which was also the problem with chrono; seems to me like mantras should be disabled and changed instead.

    "Team USA will win no matter what we didnt farm every single team that plays by getting 'lucky' we all multiclass and will swap when needed." This one is just hilarious to me, i m a g i n e being the only gods with unlimited talent in the game. I mean you don't even need to try right? I'm not sure where you got the "lucky" from though.

    "But the irony of your statement when it comes to IH is that I want IH to stay because of zeromis?" Incorrect assumption, again, my comment on IH wasn't even directed toward you but the balance team which seem to have a chronic issue with not understanding what should be changed about any class in their game. Secondly, it was implied that it's FORTUNATE for zeromis that that option is still there as to preserve build options for power mesmer. Something which cannot be said for condi mirage, which has seen exactly how many nerfs compared to power?

    " Now for you mentioning other things being broken, unreal how even that went over your head. Other things were broken in gw2? XD really? didnt know xd." Wooo! We sure are worked up aren't we, i m a g i n e. It's fine, I'm a patient person who is willing to have a discussion not a meme fest.

    "Scourge,spellbreaker,fb etc really all of them had some highs but none of those highs were as strong as mesmer and none were for that long." Totally subjective. Seems we forgot about release holo with 8k dodges hahaha, that sure was a fun one to spam in ranked.

    "Cele ele had a good run in core too, but when it got nerfed it never regained that kind of opness, but mesmer has been consistent." Yeah 5 man cele ele winning tournament is a good run, I agree with that, interesting how it got nerfed, and not disabled completely though. Mesmer has not been consistent in the meta, and we all know it.

    "You really need to do more research or further understand how the mechanics of this game work before you start throwing out accusations, personal attacks, and extremely misinformed comments because even though I play at legend anytime I speak on balance I understand there is an entire scope of players that have to deal with certain things and top players 'dealing' with it doesnt equate to the average population(majority of players) can or want to." Now there's a lot to unpack with this one, but I'll do it. I'm very versed in the history and mechanics of this game (been legend/plat3/in finals against your team in monthly XD), your assumption that I am not reflects on you, not me. I'm not really sure what "accusations, PERSONAL ATTACKS, and misinformed comments" you are referring to, please copy and paste so I can dispel any misconceptions. About your legend tier play, I personally find interest in this because the accounts rank that you stream on doesn't seem to be legend, in fact, it seems to be hundreds of rating lower than your new main account, now this large difference in rating could be from soloq (extremely volatile unpredictable matches), it could be from playing less viable builds (DH, your DH is very good though), or it could be a result of some other things. I understand that average and below players have a hard time with strong builds, but that is across the board and it certainly doesn't warrant the disabling of CI. As an example of this, mantra 1 shot existed for how long? Was it's traits ever disabled? If memory serves, no, nothing on power 1 shot mesmer/chrono/mirage has ever been disabled, it's received justified nerfs after it's "overperforming" in low tier gameplay. It is wildly interesting to me though how regarding CI, the average player is the standard of balance, when nearly unanimously it's determined that balance should come from the top down.

    "And that is how bad balance kills a competitive scene and people like you defending it are extremely dishonest with yourself or just outright selfish because you play it. " Again with the assumptions, please try to address what is said and not what you "think" is being said. I'm not defending CI, it absolutely needs to be nerfed, as a player with over 8k mesmer games. I'm suggesting that DISABLING the trait and by proxy the entire Chaos traitline, is the wrong move. Secondly, I play every class, so fear not, CI isn't the only thing I use to farm rating in both NA and EU :)

    Just my thoughts.

    You try to reach so hard because you got called out with facts from a player who just understands top level play better than you by trying to call him mad and taking it too seriously.

    It's alright man, take this time to learn the game better, we all make mistakes man.

    Feel free to address my points. I'm in the same rating and ATs as these "top players" btw.

  • @Vicariuz.1605 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:
    Lmfao I lost braincells reading this post. People actually exist who think disabling this trait was a bad move or not a good idea by anet? XD

    Also, just an fyi mesmer has been the most favored class by anet in pvp for years for us top players its not even a debate. Since the dawn of time no other class has seen the highs that mesmer has seen from mantra one shot pre hot, to bunker chrono, to condi chrono, to bunker chrono again with phantasm rework(which also had to get hotfixed) to broken condi mirage. Even with this trait gone mirage is still good and has viable builds. No other class in HISTORY has been this oppressive from pre hot all the way to this moment and if you think mesmer isn't favored you either lack information or are delusional.

    Disabling the trait was absolutely a bad idea. As an fyi there was how long of a time where Helseth, a top player, was the ONLY person playing mesmer at all? If you think that mesmer is the most oppressive class the game has ever seen please feel free to remember 5 necro teams in ranked after Dhuumfire buff, 5 cele ele comps, cele meta in general, among a plethora of other specific cases where mesmer was not even to be seen.

    I understand that spamming your entire skill bar is "fun" but CI was the perfect counter to BAD play, punishing those who played on auto pilot instead of ACTIVELY using their brain cells. If you want an example of this I will be more than willing to link SEVERAL Boyce vods, alone, where CI mesmers get facerolled by holo; when CI was able to be beaten by SEVERAL classes on SEVERAL builds. The only applicable build for mirage now is power, specifically one of your team members builds, which I dare say, is just as mindless due to it's 10+ seconds of invuln and evade frames and interrupt spam on sword ambush, while dumping its burst (which is essentially a 1shot burst mind you). Condi mirage will now be a glass cannon who's cannonball is rendered absolutely useless to 1 fb, and will STILL get facerolled by holo.

    It's VERY interesting to me that not only are the monthly tournaments gone until further notice (aka until CI is "fixed" since they "forgot" to in the last patch) but any build that's not essentially a mirror is being nerfed into being unplayable or literally disabled from play.

    No worries though, there are still builds that will farm meta comps. Due to Anet's lack of CAPACITY for balancing this game, there will literally always be builds that are "degenerate."

    Side note: extremely unprofessional of a dev describing CI as "degenerate" when it's been unchanged for MONTHS and only saw play from an extreme minority of players (because the narrative was that the former IH build was the only viable one when in actuality Dune Cloak (now gutted as well) was a much better option), when the devs were the ones to pigeonhole the class into these kinds of playstyles from nerf after nerf after nerf to every other option.

    Second side note: You want to nerf mirage correctly? Start with IH, careful though, you might nerf power mirage too ;]

    Ranked is a very bad way to establish things. I managed to 1v2 Condi Daredevil and core necro while keeping the node as a core guard yesterday. Does that make core guard op? Is it evidence Condi thief isn't good?
    No. I was in a game I shouldn't have been in. Much like how Boyce is the top .5% of the gw players, so saying he can beat mirages with a build that is equally overtuned doesn't prove much.

    Ritu farmed people in the last mAT as CI mes. Warriors, Holos, revs and fbs.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chilli.2976 said:
    I'm still stomping people without CI - it was a problem to players' classes that recently got nerfed and they couldn't play anything else.

    or mb read that the OP said properly, nobody nerfed CI it was removed from the game, pronto. its not about CI, its about the fact that developers are willing to do this kitten to mesmer while they are not willing to do that to other classes.

  • XECOR.2814XECOR.2814 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Chilli.2976 said:
    I'm still stomping people without CI - it was a problem to players' classes that recently got nerfed and they couldn't play anything else.

    or mb read that the OP said properly, nobody nerfed CI it was removed from the game, pronto. its not about CI, its about the fact that developers are willing to do this kitten to mesmer while they are not willing to do that to other classes.

    Its because mesmer is that busted no other class is that busted overall.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @XECOR.2814 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Chilli.2976 said:
    I'm still stomping people without CI - it was a problem to players' classes that recently got nerfed and they couldn't play anything else.

    or mb read that the OP said properly, nobody nerfed CI it was removed from the game, pronto. its not about CI, its about the fact that developers are willing to do this kitten to mesmer while they are not willing to do that to other classes.

    Its because mesmer is that busted no other class is that busted overall.

    sure bro

  • blitzkrieg.2451blitzkrieg.2451 Member ✭✭
    edited August 6, 2019

    @Vicariuz.1605 said:

    @blitzkrieg.2451 said:

    @Vicariuz.1605 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

    @Vicariuz.1605 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:
    Lmfao I lost braincells reading this post. People actually exist who think disabling this trait was a bad move or not a good idea by anet? XD

    Also, just an fyi mesmer has been the most favored class by anet in pvp for years for us top players its not even a debate. Since the dawn of time no other class has seen the highs that mesmer has seen from mantra one shot pre hot, to bunker chrono, to condi chrono, to bunker chrono again with phantasm rework(which also had to get hotfixed) to broken condi mirage. Even with this trait gone mirage is still good and has viable builds. No other class in HISTORY has been this oppressive from pre hot all the way to this moment and if you think mesmer isn't favored you either lack information or are delusional.

    Disabling the trait was absolutely a bad idea. As an fyi there was how long of a time where Helseth, a top player, was the ONLY person playing mesmer at all? If you think that mesmer is the most oppressive class the game has ever seen please feel free to remember 5 necro teams in ranked after Dhuumfire buff, 5 cele ele comps, cele meta in general, among a plethora of other specific cases where mesmer was not even to be seen.

    I understand that spamming your entire skill bar is "fun" but CI was the perfect counter to BAD play, punishing those who played on auto pilot instead of ACTIVELY using their brain cells. If you want an example of this I will be more than willing to link SEVERAL Boyce vods, alone, where CI mesmers get facerolled by holo; when CI was able to be beaten by SEVERAL classes on SEVERAL builds. The only applicable build for mirage now is power, specifically one of your team members builds, which I dare say, is just as mindless due to it's 10+ seconds of invuln and evade frames and interrupt spam on sword ambush, while dumping its burst (which is essentially a 1shot burst mind you). Condi mirage will now be a glass cannon who's cannonball is rendered absolutely useless to 1 fb, and will STILL get facerolled by holo.

    It's VERY interesting to me that not only are the monthly tournaments gone until further notice (aka until CI is "fixed" since they "forgot" to in the last patch) but any build that's not essentially a mirror is being nerfed into being unplayable or literally disabled from play.

    No worries though, there are still builds that will farm meta comps. Due to Anet's lack of CAPACITY for balancing this game, there will literally always be builds that are "degenerate."

    Side note: extremely unprofessional of a dev describing CI as "degenerate" when it's been unchanged for MONTHS and only saw play from an extreme minority of players (because the narrative was that the former IH build was the only viable one when in actuality Dune Cloak (now gutted as well) was a much better option), when the devs were the ones to pigeonhole the class into these kinds of playstyles from nerf after nerf after nerf to every other option.

    Second side note: You want to nerf mirage correctly? Start with IH, careful though, you might nerf power mirage too ;]

    You are so misinformed its unreal. This is the last time I'm posting here because clearly anyone defending CI lacks information and is probably low-mid gold. Firstly, when did I ever say IH wasn't a problem? And when did I say I couldn't deal with ci mirages? I have spent this entire season farming ci mirages ON NECRO and holo which has a much easier go of it. That doesn't mean the trait is okay because good players can deal with it. Being able to immobilize someone instantly off of daze mantra or a first tick chaos storm is NOT HEALTHY. An entire 3 seconds and it was such an epidemic for most people they had to disable it. The way the trait worked with that iteration of mirage IS degenerate. Mantras are instant and have no tell because the 'tradeoff XD' is that you have to charge it, well guess what you can charge mantra into your mirage cloak because balance. Now for IH it is so funny you mention that and try to act like I even care what happens in terms of balance when it comes to my team. Team USA will win no matter what we didnt farm every single team that plays by getting 'lucky' we all multiclass and will swap when needed. But the irony of your statement when it comes to IH is that I want IH to stay because of zeromis? You are so misinformed I legit cant believe some people like you exist. IH is a problem because of its interaction with staff and scepter(previously axe before nerfs) and how oppressive the condis were in terms of cover condis AND dmg. Do you even know how much damage IH does with power on sword/greatsword? It is a joke. Zeromis swapped to dune cloak for aoe boon steal in teamfights so your entire comments about that are invalid because if IH was deleted or disabled today we wouldnt care.

    Now for you mentioning other things being broken, unreal how even that went over your head. Other things were broken in gw2? XD really? didnt know xd. I thought that was obvious and anyone with a brain would be able to infer that. what I said was NOTHING was as oppressive as mesmer for THE ENTIRETY OF HOT AND POF. Scourge,spellbreaker,fb etc really all of them had some highs but none of those highs were as strong as mesmer and none were for that long. You mentioning dhuumfire scourge when it was broken for 2 weeks then anet nerfed it is comical, i am talking about almost the entirety of this games existence. Cele ele had a good run in core too, but when it got nerfed it never regained that kind of opness, but mesmer has been consistent.

    You really need to do more research or further understand how the mechanics of this game work before you start throwing out accusations, personal attacks, and extremely misinformed comments because even though I play at legend anytime I speak on balance I understand there is an entire scope of players that have to deal with certain things and top players 'dealing' with it doesnt equate to the average population(majority of players) can or want to. And that is how bad balance kills a competitive scene and people like you defending it are extremely dishonest with yourself or just outright selfish because you play it.

    LOL you seem really defensive, it's funny how if any one has a differing view than "the gods of pvp, unbeatable supreme talent beings who don't even need to try to beat any one" is "low-mid gold" or any assortment of monkey/ape etc (I'm regularly right up in plat 3+ fam <3 ).

    I'm not defending CI, I said disabling the trait is a bad idea. I understand the misconception regarding that since you seem to assume an awful AWFUL lot about me and any one else with a different view, which is fine, I'm willing to offer correction where it's needed.

    "Being able to immobilize someone instantly off of daze mantra or a first tick chaos storm is NOT HEALTHY" this I agree with, again DISABLING the trait, is NOT the solution.

    "The way the trait worked with that iteration of mirage IS degenerate." Disagree, but it's interesting that the Dev used the same terminology that streamers use for something that isn't REALLY a problem if you were using your brain while fighting against it (this can be proven through vods of you and other streamers).

    "Mantras are instant and have no tell because the 'tradeoff XD' is that you have to charge it, well guess what you can charge mantra into your mirage cloak because balance." This doesn't seem to be a problem with CI, it seems to be a problem with mantras, which was also the problem with chrono; seems to me like mantras should be disabled and changed instead.

    "Team USA will win no matter what we didnt farm every single team that plays by getting 'lucky' we all multiclass and will swap when needed." This one is just hilarious to me, i m a g i n e being the only gods with unlimited talent in the game. I mean you don't even need to try right? I'm not sure where you got the "lucky" from though.

    "But the irony of your statement when it comes to IH is that I want IH to stay because of zeromis?" Incorrect assumption, again, my comment on IH wasn't even directed toward you but the balance team which seem to have a chronic issue with not understanding what should be changed about any class in their game. Secondly, it was implied that it's FORTUNATE for zeromis that that option is still there as to preserve build options for power mesmer. Something which cannot be said for condi mirage, which has seen exactly how many nerfs compared to power?

    " Now for you mentioning other things being broken, unreal how even that went over your head. Other things were broken in gw2? XD really? didnt know xd." Wooo! We sure are worked up aren't we, i m a g i n e. It's fine, I'm a patient person who is willing to have a discussion not a meme fest.

    "Scourge,spellbreaker,fb etc really all of them had some highs but none of those highs were as strong as mesmer and none were for that long." Totally subjective. Seems we forgot about release holo with 8k dodges hahaha, that sure was a fun one to spam in ranked.

    "Cele ele had a good run in core too, but when it got nerfed it never regained that kind of opness, but mesmer has been consistent." Yeah 5 man cele ele winning tournament is a good run, I agree with that, interesting how it got nerfed, and not disabled completely though. Mesmer has not been consistent in the meta, and we all know it.

    "You really need to do more research or further understand how the mechanics of this game work before you start throwing out accusations, personal attacks, and extremely misinformed comments because even though I play at legend anytime I speak on balance I understand there is an entire scope of players that have to deal with certain things and top players 'dealing' with it doesnt equate to the average population(majority of players) can or want to." Now there's a lot to unpack with this one, but I'll do it. I'm very versed in the history and mechanics of this game (been legend/plat3/in finals against your team in monthly XD), your assumption that I am not reflects on you, not me. I'm not really sure what "accusations, PERSONAL ATTACKS, and misinformed comments" you are referring to, please copy and paste so I can dispel any misconceptions. About your legend tier play, I personally find interest in this because the accounts rank that you stream on doesn't seem to be legend, in fact, it seems to be hundreds of rating lower than your new main account, now this large difference in rating could be from soloq (extremely volatile unpredictable matches), it could be from playing less viable builds (DH, your DH is very good though), or it could be a result of some other things. I understand that average and below players have a hard time with strong builds, but that is across the board and it certainly doesn't warrant the disabling of CI. As an example of this, mantra 1 shot existed for how long? Was it's traits ever disabled? If memory serves, no, nothing on power 1 shot mesmer/chrono/mirage has ever been disabled, it's received justified nerfs after it's "overperforming" in low tier gameplay. It is wildly interesting to me though how regarding CI, the average player is the standard of balance, when nearly unanimously it's determined that balance should come from the top down.

    "And that is how bad balance kills a competitive scene and people like you defending it are extremely dishonest with yourself or just outright selfish because you play it. " Again with the assumptions, please try to address what is said and not what you "think" is being said. I'm not defending CI, it absolutely needs to be nerfed, as a player with over 8k mesmer games. I'm suggesting that DISABLING the trait and by proxy the entire Chaos traitline, is the wrong move. Secondly, I play every class, so fear not, CI isn't the only thing I use to farm rating in both NA and EU :)

    Just my thoughts.

    You try to reach so hard because you got called out with facts from a player who just understands top level play better than you by trying to call him mad and taking it too seriously.

    It's alright man, take this time to learn the game better, we all make mistakes man.

    Feel free to address my points. I'm in the same rating and ATs as these "top players" btw.

    Your points consist of 80% bashing Naru and saying he's desperate. What points are you trying to make? He destroyed you with facts, and you got personal and tried to attack him out of the subject and call him desperate and angry.

    Also, your name isn't even on the leaderboards top 246 for NA or EU..

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2019

    The classic "ranked can't be a measure to overperforming professions" is back!
    Will stay tuned for when that same argument is reversed to "prove" other professions are not overperforming, as usual.

    The degenerate

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2019

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    Welcome back, Incisorr!

    sg86f99nk7z11.jpg

    Blew my mind. You're right.

  • Vicariuz.1605Vicariuz.1605 Member ✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Vicariuz.1605 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:
    Lmfao I lost braincells reading this post. People actually exist who think disabling this trait was a bad move or not a good idea by anet? XD

    Also, just an fyi mesmer has been the most favored class by anet in pvp for years for us top players its not even a debate. Since the dawn of time no other class has seen the highs that mesmer has seen from mantra one shot pre hot, to bunker chrono, to condi chrono, to bunker chrono again with phantasm rework(which also had to get hotfixed) to broken condi mirage. Even with this trait gone mirage is still good and has viable builds. No other class in HISTORY has been this oppressive from pre hot all the way to this moment and if you think mesmer isn't favored you either lack information or are delusional.

    Disabling the trait was absolutely a bad idea. As an fyi there was how long of a time where Helseth, a top player, was the ONLY person playing mesmer at all? If you think that mesmer is the most oppressive class the game has ever seen please feel free to remember 5 necro teams in ranked after Dhuumfire buff, 5 cele ele comps, cele meta in general, among a plethora of other specific cases where mesmer was not even to be seen.

    I understand that spamming your entire skill bar is "fun" but CI was the perfect counter to BAD play, punishing those who played on auto pilot instead of ACTIVELY using their brain cells. If you want an example of this I will be more than willing to link SEVERAL Boyce vods, alone, where CI mesmers get facerolled by holo; when CI was able to be beaten by SEVERAL classes on SEVERAL builds. The only applicable build for mirage now is power, specifically one of your team members builds, which I dare say, is just as mindless due to it's 10+ seconds of invuln and evade frames and interrupt spam on sword ambush, while dumping its burst (which is essentially a 1shot burst mind you). Condi mirage will now be a glass cannon who's cannonball is rendered absolutely useless to 1 fb, and will STILL get facerolled by holo.

    It's VERY interesting to me that not only are the monthly tournaments gone until further notice (aka until CI is "fixed" since they "forgot" to in the last patch) but any build that's not essentially a mirror is being nerfed into being unplayable or literally disabled from play.

    No worries though, there are still builds that will farm meta comps. Due to Anet's lack of CAPACITY for balancing this game, there will literally always be builds that are "degenerate."

    Side note: extremely unprofessional of a dev describing CI as "degenerate" when it's been unchanged for MONTHS and only saw play from an extreme minority of players (because the narrative was that the former IH build was the only viable one when in actuality Dune Cloak (now gutted as well) was a much better option), when the devs were the ones to pigeonhole the class into these kinds of playstyles from nerf after nerf after nerf to every other option.

    Second side note: You want to nerf mirage correctly? Start with IH, careful though, you might nerf power mirage too ;]

    Ranked is a very bad way to establish things. I managed to 1v2 Condi Daredevil and core necro while keeping the node as a core guard yesterday. Does that make core guard op? Is it evidence Condi thief isn't good?
    No. I was in a game I shouldn't have been in. Much like how Boyce is the top .5% of the gw players, so saying he can beat mirages with a build that is equally overtuned doesn't prove much.

    Ritu farmed people in the last mAT as CI mes. Warriors, Holos, revs and fbs.

    I am not in the top .5% and I still farm CI mirage. In ranked as well as ATs.

  • Vicariuz.1605Vicariuz.1605 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2019

    @blitzkrieg.2451 said:

    @Vicariuz.1605 said:

    @blitzkrieg.2451 said:

    @Vicariuz.1605 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

    @Vicariuz.1605 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:
    Lmfao I lost braincells reading this post. People actually exist who think disabling this trait was a bad move or not a good idea by anet? XD

    Also, just an fyi mesmer has been the most favored class by anet in pvp for years for us top players its not even a debate. Since the dawn of time no other class has seen the highs that mesmer has seen from mantra one shot pre hot, to bunker chrono, to condi chrono, to bunker chrono again with phantasm rework(which also had to get hotfixed) to broken condi mirage. Even with this trait gone mirage is still good and has viable builds. No other class in HISTORY has been this oppressive from pre hot all the way to this moment and if you think mesmer isn't favored you either lack information or are delusional.

    Disabling the trait was absolutely a bad idea. As an fyi there was how long of a time where Helseth, a top player, was the ONLY person playing mesmer at all? If you think that mesmer is the most oppressive class the game has ever seen please feel free to remember 5 necro teams in ranked after Dhuumfire buff, 5 cele ele comps, cele meta in general, among a plethora of other specific cases where mesmer was not even to be seen.

    I understand that spamming your entire skill bar is "fun" but CI was the perfect counter to BAD play, punishing those who played on auto pilot instead of ACTIVELY using their brain cells. If you want an example of this I will be more than willing to link SEVERAL Boyce vods, alone, where CI mesmers get facerolled by holo; when CI was able to be beaten by SEVERAL classes on SEVERAL builds. The only applicable build for mirage now is power, specifically one of your team members builds, which I dare say, is just as mindless due to it's 10+ seconds of invuln and evade frames and interrupt spam on sword ambush, while dumping its burst (which is essentially a 1shot burst mind you). Condi mirage will now be a glass cannon who's cannonball is rendered absolutely useless to 1 fb, and will STILL get facerolled by holo.

    It's VERY interesting to me that not only are the monthly tournaments gone until further notice (aka until CI is "fixed" since they "forgot" to in the last patch) but any build that's not essentially a mirror is being nerfed into being unplayable or literally disabled from play.

    No worries though, there are still builds that will farm meta comps. Due to Anet's lack of CAPACITY for balancing this game, there will literally always be builds that are "degenerate."

    Side note: extremely unprofessional of a dev describing CI as "degenerate" when it's been unchanged for MONTHS and only saw play from an extreme minority of players (because the narrative was that the former IH build was the only viable one when in actuality Dune Cloak (now gutted as well) was a much better option), when the devs were the ones to pigeonhole the class into these kinds of playstyles from nerf after nerf after nerf to every other option.

    Second side note: You want to nerf mirage correctly? Start with IH, careful though, you might nerf power mirage too ;]

    You are so misinformed its unreal. This is the last time I'm posting here because clearly anyone defending CI lacks information and is probably low-mid gold. Firstly, when did I ever say IH wasn't a problem? And when did I say I couldn't deal with ci mirages? I have spent this entire season farming ci mirages ON NECRO and holo which has a much easier go of it. That doesn't mean the trait is okay because good players can deal with it. Being able to immobilize someone instantly off of daze mantra or a first tick chaos storm is NOT HEALTHY. An entire 3 seconds and it was such an epidemic for most people they had to disable it. The way the trait worked with that iteration of mirage IS degenerate. Mantras are instant and have no tell because the 'tradeoff XD' is that you have to charge it, well guess what you can charge mantra into your mirage cloak because balance. Now for IH it is so funny you mention that and try to act like I even care what happens in terms of balance when it comes to my team. Team USA will win no matter what we didnt farm every single team that plays by getting 'lucky' we all multiclass and will swap when needed. But the irony of your statement when it comes to IH is that I want IH to stay because of zeromis? You are so misinformed I legit cant believe some people like you exist. IH is a problem because of its interaction with staff and scepter(previously axe before nerfs) and how oppressive the condis were in terms of cover condis AND dmg. Do you even know how much damage IH does with power on sword/greatsword? It is a joke. Zeromis swapped to dune cloak for aoe boon steal in teamfights so your entire comments about that are invalid because if IH was deleted or disabled today we wouldnt care.

    Now for you mentioning other things being broken, unreal how even that went over your head. Other things were broken in gw2? XD really? didnt know xd. I thought that was obvious and anyone with a brain would be able to infer that. what I said was NOTHING was as oppressive as mesmer for THE ENTIRETY OF HOT AND POF. Scourge,spellbreaker,fb etc really all of them had some highs but none of those highs were as strong as mesmer and none were for that long. You mentioning dhuumfire scourge when it was broken for 2 weeks then anet nerfed it is comical, i am talking about almost the entirety of this games existence. Cele ele had a good run in core too, but when it got nerfed it never regained that kind of opness, but mesmer has been consistent.

    You really need to do more research or further understand how the mechanics of this game work before you start throwing out accusations, personal attacks, and extremely misinformed comments because even though I play at legend anytime I speak on balance I understand there is an entire scope of players that have to deal with certain things and top players 'dealing' with it doesnt equate to the average population(majority of players) can or want to. And that is how bad balance kills a competitive scene and people like you defending it are extremely dishonest with yourself or just outright selfish because you play it.

    LOL you seem really defensive, it's funny how if any one has a differing view than "the gods of pvp, unbeatable supreme talent beings who don't even need to try to beat any one" is "low-mid gold" or any assortment of monkey/ape etc (I'm regularly right up in plat 3+ fam <3 ).

    I'm not defending CI, I said disabling the trait is a bad idea. I understand the misconception regarding that since you seem to assume an awful AWFUL lot about me and any one else with a different view, which is fine, I'm willing to offer correction where it's needed.

    "Being able to immobilize someone instantly off of daze mantra or a first tick chaos storm is NOT HEALTHY" this I agree with, again DISABLING the trait, is NOT the solution.

    "The way the trait worked with that iteration of mirage IS degenerate." Disagree, but it's interesting that the Dev used the same terminology that streamers use for something that isn't REALLY a problem if you were using your brain while fighting against it (this can be proven through vods of you and other streamers).

    "Mantras are instant and have no tell because the 'tradeoff XD' is that you have to charge it, well guess what you can charge mantra into your mirage cloak because balance." This doesn't seem to be a problem with CI, it seems to be a problem with mantras, which was also the problem with chrono; seems to me like mantras should be disabled and changed instead.

    "Team USA will win no matter what we didnt farm every single team that plays by getting 'lucky' we all multiclass and will swap when needed." This one is just hilarious to me, i m a g i n e being the only gods with unlimited talent in the game. I mean you don't even need to try right? I'm not sure where you got the "lucky" from though.

    "But the irony of your statement when it comes to IH is that I want IH to stay because of zeromis?" Incorrect assumption, again, my comment on IH wasn't even directed toward you but the balance team which seem to have a chronic issue with not understanding what should be changed about any class in their game. Secondly, it was implied that it's FORTUNATE for zeromis that that option is still there as to preserve build options for power mesmer. Something which cannot be said for condi mirage, which has seen exactly how many nerfs compared to power?

    " Now for you mentioning other things being broken, unreal how even that went over your head. Other things were broken in gw2? XD really? didnt know xd." Wooo! We sure are worked up aren't we, i m a g i n e. It's fine, I'm a patient person who is willing to have a discussion not a meme fest.

    "Scourge,spellbreaker,fb etc really all of them had some highs but none of those highs were as strong as mesmer and none were for that long." Totally subjective. Seems we forgot about release holo with 8k dodges hahaha, that sure was a fun one to spam in ranked.

    "Cele ele had a good run in core too, but when it got nerfed it never regained that kind of opness, but mesmer has been consistent." Yeah 5 man cele ele winning tournament is a good run, I agree with that, interesting how it got nerfed, and not disabled completely though. Mesmer has not been consistent in the meta, and we all know it.

    "You really need to do more research or further understand how the mechanics of this game work before you start throwing out accusations, personal attacks, and extremely misinformed comments because even though I play at legend anytime I speak on balance I understand there is an entire scope of players that have to deal with certain things and top players 'dealing' with it doesnt equate to the average population(majority of players) can or want to." Now there's a lot to unpack with this one, but I'll do it. I'm very versed in the history and mechanics of this game (been legend/plat3/in finals against your team in monthly XD), your assumption that I am not reflects on you, not me. I'm not really sure what "accusations, PERSONAL ATTACKS, and misinformed comments" you are referring to, please copy and paste so I can dispel any misconceptions. About your legend tier play, I personally find interest in this because the accounts rank that you stream on doesn't seem to be legend, in fact, it seems to be hundreds of rating lower than your new main account, now this large difference in rating could be from soloq (extremely volatile unpredictable matches), it could be from playing less viable builds (DH, your DH is very good though), or it could be a result of some other things. I understand that average and below players have a hard time with strong builds, but that is across the board and it certainly doesn't warrant the disabling of CI. As an example of this, mantra 1 shot existed for how long? Was it's traits ever disabled? If memory serves, no, nothing on power 1 shot mesmer/chrono/mirage has ever been disabled, it's received justified nerfs after it's "overperforming" in low tier gameplay. It is wildly interesting to me though how regarding CI, the average player is the standard of balance, when nearly unanimously it's determined that balance should come from the top down.

    "And that is how bad balance kills a competitive scene and people like you defending it are extremely dishonest with yourself or just outright selfish because you play it. " Again with the assumptions, please try to address what is said and not what you "think" is being said. I'm not defending CI, it absolutely needs to be nerfed, as a player with over 8k mesmer games. I'm suggesting that DISABLING the trait and by proxy the entire Chaos traitline, is the wrong move. Secondly, I play every class, so fear not, CI isn't the only thing I use to farm rating in both NA and EU :)

    Just my thoughts.

    You try to reach so hard because you got called out with facts from a player who just understands top level play better than you by trying to call him mad and taking it too seriously.

    It's alright man, take this time to learn the game better, we all make mistakes man.

    Feel free to address my points. I'm in the same rating and ATs as these "top players" btw.

    Your points consist of 80% bashing Naru and saying he's desperate. What points are you trying to make? He destroyed you with facts, and you got personal and tried to attack him out of the subject and call him desperate and angry.

    Also, your name isn't even on the leaderboards top 246 for NA or EU..

    Disagreeing and saying why isn't bashing, I NEVER said he was desperate (quote it), I said absolutely nothing personal about him (quote it), nor did I say that he is angry (quote it).

    Stop putting words in my mouth.

    I have been out of state with work for the end of this season (1753 without decay), I already have the top 25 titles any way, on multiple accounts, on NA as well as EU and I'll be more than happy to wear them for you.

  • Vasdamas Anklast.1607Vasdamas Anklast.1607 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    Oh look, mesmers playing victims again. Let's pretend Anet never disabled Scourge's trait (they never whined even half as much as you all do all over the forums) with new runes so you fotm cattle could justify YET ANOTHER attempt to beg for another rework in hopes it would result in bigger bunch of broken BS traits and skills that'd take years for devs to fix while you revel in your cheese spotlight.
    I'll never regret BMing every single insolent mesmer trash I came across on WvW or SPvP because humility is what you lack the most.

    @Chiuvitas.8946 said:
    guard

    Lmao yes let's complain about guardians now

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    so... one of the most overpowered class for 2 years finally getting the nerf treatment, and now you are threatening to quit the game? there are so many other classes were virtually useless in pvp for 2 year, now it time to try them out

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭✭

    @crepuscular.9047 said:
    so... one of the most overpowered class for 2 years finally getting the nerf treatment, and now you are threatening to quit the game? there are so many other classes were virtually useless in pvp for 2 year, now it time to try them out

    i wonder if thief will ever make a come back. it's been quite awhile since anet brought their hammer of hate on us.

    #MakeTeefGreatAgain

  • All I'm going to say is Chrono. That is enough.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    this isn't even about mesmer lol. anet doesn't care about mesmer. it does care about its image tho and for some reason someone somewhere thinks its a good idea to listen to every complaint on the forums. on one hand its cool that they are taking feedback, as not doing so can lead to more frustration and less game playing. I think balance is heading in the right direction but I think they need someone who really understands the game to take the reins in that department.

    you don't know till you know, ya know.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    Mesmer went literally a year or more as "trash tier" after the glamour nerf.

    As a Mesmer main, I feel that ANET has been extremely harsh on my class for much of the life of the game. It has ruined my attitude about PvP.

    Does something being underpowered in the past justify it being overpowered and exempt from balance in the future ?

  • TheDevice.2751TheDevice.2751 Member ✭✭✭

    HOLY MOLY. This looks like a necromancer thread. lol WOW
    Now you Mesmers FINALLY know how it feels to play reaper/core necro. Scourge had a good run though.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheDevice.2751 said:
    HOLY MOLY. This looks like a necromancer thread. lol WOW
    Now you Mesmers FINALLY know how it feels to play reaper/core necro. Scourge had a good run though.

    Core necro? You know core mesmer was gutted all the time for sake of elite specs and wasnt doing great either.
    So far as I know Reaper is very playble, Chrono with other hand is dead.

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    Mesmer went literally a year or more as "trash tier" after the glamour nerf.

    As a Mesmer main, I feel that ANET has been extremely harsh on my class for much of the life of the game. It has ruined my attitude about PvP.

    Does something being underpowered in the past justify it being overpowered and exempt from balance in the future ?

    I was pointing out that Mesmer has consistently been treated very harshly.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • Rukia.4802Rukia.4802 Member ✭✭

    Mesmer is a toxic class that should be removed from pvp

    TIME FOR A CRUSADE

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭

    What a joke of a topic. Mesmer has always been the most loved child of ANET. The ability to cheese up has always existed for mesmers. Low risk and high reward class that becomes extremely deadly in decent hands. The nerfs haven't even addressed real issues yet. There's still a long way to go before mesmers will be on a fair playing field with other classes.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 12, 2019

    They nerfed mesmer vigor; when mes had no target drop, less stealth, and the one burst combo respected Line of Sight, on a 30 second gap closer (with no escape except selfish portal), with a ranged weapon that had no hard defense (like a block or evade). In a meta when Mesmer was replaced in slot by thief (to the point where top players rerolled for tournies), and was only taken for Portal:

    The Dev bias is real.

    I wonder if after a-net trimmed the fat and dropped the other projects, if those people returning to the main game are now here to dump on mesmer.

    I'm actually fine with the CI ban as shady as it is (if another class had such a thing a-net would let it run for a few months), but what happend to chrono was unwarranted. The only changes to mirage's survivability that were warranted was Evasive mirror, and Mirage Cloak duration. Everything else should be reverted and Condi mirages application needed to be nerfed in it's place. (like no damaging condis on ambushes)

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