Soo, can we stop scaring kids with T1 Siren's Reef? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Soo, can we stop scaring kids with T1 Siren's Reef?

I am a big fan of the game. I play it every day and I plan on not quitting till I reach Fractal God status in the next few years.
NOW! I am starting to see less and less ppl doing fractals. I assume new players are quitting game for good after tasting T1 Reef. Can we tone it down or remove it from T1? Why is it still more difficult than Observatory. I found T1 Reef really annoying with my 250ess CMs team today.

Thanks for listening to my rant!
Cred X

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Comments

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What makes Reef hard are the instabilities. T1/T2 Reef isn't any more of a challenge than any other fractal to a T4 capable group.

    In the recent past if I saw T4 Sirens I would just skip that night, but have never walked away when it was a recommended. Nowadays when I see Reef as a T4, I zone in on my Heal Scourge :)

    This is for LFG mind you. Static groups likely have no problems with Reef, at least I would imagine.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2019

    I think Siren's Reef is more annoying than anything else, thanks to the mobs not clearing per boss and the enemies having 10000 aggro range or something. It's also kinda long. The circle mechanic can also trouble many people. Overall, it's not very fun.

    T4 sirens isn't that hard unless it comes with bad instabilities. Now, granted I usually play with some friends and 1-2 random people, but we're used to pretending they're not there anyways. The only one I refuse to deal with is Social Awkwardness, but that's terrible on any fractal.

  • Lexi.1398Lexi.1398 Member ✭✭✭

    IMO sirens reef gets easier the higher the teir; instabilities can be annoying sure, but the main thing is no matter the teir you want a healer (especially one with condi cleanse) + want people to actually stick together (for shark). the latter is a given in any group with even a little competence, t1 is super lax for every other fractal near enough + teir for newbs not used to stacking for boons, so you see that less. t1 also basically requires no specific build for any fractal....EXCEPT sirens reef, while this is technically true for t4s too lots of groups like bringing a healer just because the dps output of enemies is pretty high, so you're more likely to see that also. And i will say, i imagine pro statics prolly can do without a healer, but in my experience it's much easier and more reliably done with randoms if you have a healer.

    Removing it from t1 causes a whole bunch of problems, like when they get dropped into a new fractal at t2 they never learned to deal with without the extra scaling + instability. If -anything- should be toned down, IMO in teir 1 only the conditions when falling into water should apply at a slower rate and shorter duration. That said, i don't really believe it's needed.

  • Tbh, how many times can you expect people to do the same content day in and day out. The last few fractals have been poorly designed and annoying. I actually have more fun running the even OLDER dungeons; which in mind mind says a lot about the status of this games 5 man content.

  • @maniksdi.1765 said:
    Why is it still more difficult than Observatory.

    It's not.

    I found T1 Reef really annoying with my 250ess CMs team today.

    Group needs to change their tactics if they struggled on tier 1.

    I've never seen PUGs struggle even at T2.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • VanWilder.6923VanWilder.6923 Member ✭✭✭

    "Siren Reef", whenever it is on dailies, I always respond with "Urgh, this kitten reef. Sorry guys, but I am going to skip this one" to my party.

    I DISLIKE this "Siren Reef" SO MUCH and I choose not to play it. Period

  • @VanWilder.6923 said:
    I DISLIKE this "Siren Reef" SO MUCH and I choose not to play it. Period

    Did you want to explain why you dislike it?
    The OP's claim is that T1 is too difficult, even for CM fractalers (although there seems little support for that theory). Other people have expressed distaste for how long it takes, even if you're group is good at the mechanics. What's your reason?

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The difficulty of Siren's Reef decreases proportionally based on the amount of Scourges you have in your party.

    I'm serious. Everything that makes Reef's final boss fight a challenge is trivialized by Scourge, and the more Scourges, the more trivial it becomes.

    No Pain no Gain? Scourge
    We Bleed Fire? Scourge
    Frailty? Biggest health pool in the game Scourge
    Stick Together / Outflanked? Largest/Spammable AoE in the game
    Afflicted? Condition cleanse built into Largest/Spammable AoE in the game.

    Spammable barrier, fear, AoE's out the whazoo, a Scourge laughs at this fractal.

    If I was a conspiracy nut, I'd say that whoever designed Reef wanted a fractal to showcase the power of Scourge.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @VanWilder.6923 said:
    I DISLIKE this "Siren Reef" SO MUCH and I choose not to play it. Period

    Did you want to explain why you dislike it?
    The OP's claim is that T1 is too difficult, even for CM fractalers (although there seems little support for that theory). Other people have expressed distaste for how long it takes, even if you're group is good at the mechanics. What's your reason?

    You didn't ask me, but I also reallu dislike this fractal.
    I find it takes too long and I'm not good enough as a druid (my only class set up for T4) for it and people blame failure on the druid.

    Saying that T1 and T2 Reef, is not a problem at all, altho, still too long. I prefer shorter fractals.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2019

    Reflects make such a huge difference in this Fractal, give things like Wall of Reflection a try. All the adds are almost exclusively ranged and projectile based. If you keep up projectile defense, it's almost like they aren't even there and the rest is very easily outhealed, no matter if there's Bleed Fire or what have you.

    Get in the habit of looking at fights or fractals you are struggling with and what parts of them are killing you or making you dislike them, then search for a solution to them in your kit and adapt it for the encounter.

    Now, instead of this constant annoyance when playing this Fractal, you suddenly have a unique job to do that makes you an asset to have around because you and everybody else has a better time.
    That tends to work much better than complaining.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2019

    @Asum.4960 said:
    Reflects make such a huge difference in this Fractal, give things like Wall of Reflection a try. All the adds are almost exclusively ranged and projectile based. If you keep up projectile defense, it's almost like they aren't even there and the rest is very easily outhealed, no matter if there's Bleed Fire or what have you.

    Get in the habit of looking at fights or fractals you are struggling with and what parts of them are killing you or making you dislike them, then search for a solution to them in your kit and adapt it for the encounter.

    Except the adds should be focused and burned down, not ignored. The bosses spawn adds every 25% drop in health. The boss on their own isn't too hard to manage.

    Drop boss 100% - 75% health
    Target switch - focus adds
    Drop Boss 75% - 50% health
    Target switch - focus adds
    ...

    Doesn't seem too complicated, but then neither is Subject 6 - it's only a problem when people are convinced the only way to succeed is to press 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 as fast as possible and burn the target down. If players would actually just observe and follow the fight mechanics for this boss, each kill would be flawless.

    Who would think that the ability to watch the bosses' health bar and the skill to switch targets would be the key to success here?

    EDIT: as I've said on other threads, this encounter reminds me so much of an old boss fight in WoW (https://www.wowhead.com/npc=24744/vexallus ). When I used to pug that 5-man, I would implore the other players to follow the strategy of throttling DPS. Most disagreed, but after the 2nd/3rd wipe, agreed to try, and many then said it was the first time they had defeated him.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:
    Reflects make such a huge difference in this Fractal, give things like Wall of Reflection a try. All the adds are almost exclusively ranged and projectile based. If you keep up projectile defense, it's almost like they aren't even there and the rest is very easily outhealed, no matter if there's Bleed Fire or what have you.

    Get in the habit of looking at fights or fractals you are struggling with and what parts of them are killing you or making you dislike them, then search for a solution to them in your kit and adapt it for the encounter.

    Except the adds should be focused and burned down, not ignored. The bosses spawn adds every 25% drop in health. The boss on their own isn't too hard to manage.

    That depends entirely on how good your group is. If you are struggling then making an active effort to clear the adds as well definitely can help.

    If you have good DPS, you can just burst the bosses while a reflect is up, and then 2 people go fetch the treasure while 3 stay and clear the left over adds.
    For Crowe you obviously need decent DPS as well if you don't actively clear, but since a good sup FB for example can keep up permanent projectile mitigation, it's not really an issue unless people run around like headless chicken.

  • I personally skip this fractal on T4's because it's simply annoying. The fractal isn't fun in any way, it just feels like Anet's trying to make it difficult by making it frustrating. The Maze is annoying when the eye AoE's turn to come after you and give you no room to avoid them, the enemies in general are obnoxious but not the worst, but the kicker is the final section. Crowe herself is just frustrating because no matter what, you're being hindered in some way. She dazes non stop, and her winds are just infuriating. Couple that with her AoE mechanics and it just becomes a slog to get through. I've done the fractal with no issues plenty of times, I often go healer if I have to pug, but it's just not a fun experience when Anet decides to take a note from UMvC3 and just fill the screen with stuff. I personally think this is the worst fractal they've ever made.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:
    That depends entirely on how good your group is. If you are struggling then making an active effort to clear the adds as well definitely can help.

    I agree, but if your group isn't struggling, you're not likely going to be coming to this forum to complain about the fractal :wink:

    So if someone is here complaining about it, either they or the players they run with / LFG with are having issue.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:
    That depends entirely on how good your group is. If you are struggling then making an active effort to clear the adds as well definitely can help.

    I agree, but if your group isn't struggling, you're not likely going to be coming to this forum to complain about the fractal :wink:

    So if someone is here complaining about it, either they or the players they run with / LFG with are having issue.

    That's absolutely fair and I'm not disagreeing with you.

    Still Reflects are a valuable thing to bring, even if you plan to focus on clearing adds.

    But if you notice your group having good DPS, one or two players clearing can be the thing that causes issues if otherwise you could have bursted the boss within the uptime of the reflects.
    Just depends on the group, and while I'm personally not a huge fan of the Fractal either, I can appreciate the challenges it provides at times, as well as the different approaches to dealing with them.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Reflects or AoEs. When I use Whirling Axe on the bosses I do my best to catch the adds in the AoE as well.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Need a clearer picture of what's causing the wipe or difficult for the group in S.R Tier 1(?) And class profession?

  • @Eramonster.2718 said:
    Need a clearer picture of what's causing the wipe or difficult for the group in S.R Tier 1(?) And class profession?

    The OP hasn't responded.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • VanWilder.6923VanWilder.6923 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @VanWilder.6923 said:
    I DISLIKE this "Siren Reef" SO MUCH and I choose not to play it. Period

    Did you want to explain why you dislike it?
    The OP's claim is that T1 is too difficult, even for CM fractalers (although there seems little support for that theory). Other people have expressed distaste for how long it takes, even if you're group is good at the mechanics. What's your reason?

    The Fractal is too long, endless annoying adds/mechanics, when someone dislikes something, they tend to dislike everything about it. And I cleared it all the time in T4 since its release.

    For my own good, playing the game to have fun and relax but this kitten Reef does not give me either, so I choose not to play "Siren Reef" forever (even in T1). That's my problem and its solved.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    250kp cm group failing t1 siren reef?
    sounds like OP wanted to put some volume behind his rant as to be taken more serious now.

    however, it's quite the opposite. a proper 250kp team just melts crowe

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    What makes Reef hard are the instabilities. T1/T2 Reef isn't any more of a challenge than any other fractal to a T4 capable group.

    It's not the impact on veteran fractal players we're talking about. It's how it impacts the new players. That's why, i believe, OP mentioned T1 and not T4.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    What makes Reef hard are the instabilities. T1/T2 Reef isn't any more of a challenge than any other fractal to a T4 capable group.

    It's not the impact on veteran fractal players we're talking about. It's how it impacts the new players. That's why, i believe, OP mentioned T1 and not T4.

    You should read his post again then. Keep going until you hit

    I found T1 Reef really annoying with my 250ess CMs team today.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    Well, that part may or may not be suspicious depending on what OP meant. Notice, that he did write "annoying", not "difficult", and on that part i would actually agree. Siren's Reef is annoying. It is simply not fun at all. Beyond that however, OP definitely does have a point. The difficulty levels of some of the newer fractals (coupled with the instability changes) did wonders in reducing the populatiry of fractals among newer/less skilled players.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Well, that part may or may not be suspicious depending on what OP meant. Notice, that he did write "annoying", not "difficult", and on that part i would actually agree. Siren's Reef is annoying. It is simply not fun at all. Beyond that however, OP definitely does have a point. The difficulty levels of some of the newer fractals (coupled with the instability changes) did wonders in reducing the populatiry of fractals among newer/less skilled players.

    Note that the title of the thread is,

    Soo, can we stop scaring kids with T1 Siren's Reef?

    The title wasn't, "can we make it less annoying;" it was "stop scaring with the first tier.

    There's a lot of agreement that this fractal is long, agreement that it's laborious. There's agreement that high-skilled groups can burn through the final fight. And there's agreement that PUGlings can struggle through it, particularly with certain instabilities. But is there really any evidence that people who are interested in challenging group content are being put off by T1 of this one fractal?

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Oogabooga.3812Oogabooga.3812 Member ✭✭✭

    I think one thing that would greatly improve the hate towards this fractal's final boss fights is to make the ghost adds that spawn only spawn once like every other fractal. Mai Trin, Cliffside, Swampland, and even Deepstone are bearable because you can clear the adds once and for all.

    Am I wrong about the ghosts continually respawning?

  • the biggest enemy PuG Sirens Reefs are the other players in the last fight.
    i think 80% have no clue whats going on. even T1.
    i NEVER ever saw someone not running away with the green AoE.

    And some players only do autoattack. i'm using ARCDPS and its insane how low sometimes dps is.
    i'm never telling anyone, because its not my business. but i wonder how long it took the player to get level 80.

    so yeah i dont run Sirens Reef PuG anymore.

    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    The difficulty of Siren's Reef decreases proportionally based on the amount of Scourges you have in your party.

    I'm serious. Everything that makes Reef's final boss fight a challenge is trivialized by Scourge, and the more Scourges, the more trivial it becomes.

    No Pain no Gain? Scourge
    We Bleed Fire? Scourge
    Frailty? Biggest health pool in the game Scourge
    Stick Together / Outflanked? Largest/Spammable AoE in the game
    Afflicted? Condition cleanse built into Largest/Spammable AoE in the game.

    Spammable barrier, fear, AoE's out the whazoo, a Scourge laughs at this fractal.

    If I was a conspiracy nut, I'd say that whoever designed Reef wanted a fractal to showcase the power of Scourge.

    Not that I want to perpetuate scourges in fractals or anything, but you forgot all the Stability that they put out... And honestly stability and/or aegis spam makes the last boss in Siren's one of the easiest there is.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    The difficulty of Siren's Reef decreases proportionally based on the amount of Scourges you have in your party.

    I'm serious. Everything that makes Reef's final boss fight a challenge is trivialized by Scourge, and the more Scourges, the more trivial it becomes.

    No Pain no Gain? Scourge
    We Bleed Fire? Scourge
    Frailty? Biggest health pool in the game Scourge
    Stick Together / Outflanked? Largest/Spammable AoE in the game
    Afflicted? Condition cleanse built into Largest/Spammable AoE in the game.

    Spammable barrier, fear, AoE's out the whazoo, a Scourge laughs at this fractal.
    If I was a conspiracy nut, I'd say that whoever designed Reef wanted a fractal to showcase the power of Scourge.

    Or you read skill descriptions and use reflects. A guardian with wor + a ren with ventari cover perma projectile defense, making you immune to adds. You could also take a fb healer to make it completely faceroll.
    The fractal isn't hard. It's just super annoying without a healer. Why does crow have to teleport around 3 times without any animation? Like it wasn't annoying enough in deepstone.

  • @Nephalem.8921 said:
    Why does crow have to teleport around 3 times without any animation? Like it wasn't annoying enough in deepstone.

    Shhh. Next think you know, ANet will add Crowe as part of Mists Convergence and we will have her in Deepstone (sometimes).

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Rico.6873Rico.6873 Member ✭✭✭

    The boss is easy the only hard part is the wind blasting allies into the water
    That with a enemy elite mob that grants OP buffs to his allies like quickness and Aegis so you cant pull them into the boss
    And all the other mechanics together just makes it an annoying boss to face

    Remove the wind and the fractal can be facerolled easily
    Reducing the size of the winds would also improve the survival rate by a huge margin
    Other then that all the other idea's from above can be used to faceroll this boss!

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭

    T1 Sirens is a noob trap. It's not impossible for new players, just very difficult since people lack gaming experience or the mechanics aren't inherently obvious.

    People in T1 tend to...

    ... Split up faster than you can say "let's split up, gang!". Not great for boon sharing or stacking aoe damage since the boss is constantly on the move.
    ... Ignore the cannons, despite being the most telegraphed mechanic of the fractal. Since when was siege equipment ever useful in the open world anyway?
    ... Not throw the pirate treasure, or ignoring it altogether.
    ... Ignore floor cues, so they will ignore red circles and run away from the team when given a green circle. Sometimes there isn't even a group to help you disperse the green. They won't or can't react to the wind mechanic.

    All of these problems can be fixed after a few dry runs with a casual group, or with a more experienced player carrying dps or explaining mechanics.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    T1 Sirens is a noob trap. It's not impossible for new players, just very difficult since people lack gaming experience or the mechanics aren't inherently obvious.

    People in T1 tend to...

    ... Split up faster than you can say "let's split up, gang!". Not great for boon sharing or stacking aoe damage since the boss is constantly on the move.
    ... Ignore the cannons, despite being the most telegraphed mechanic of the fractal. Since when was siege equipment ever useful in the open world anyway?
    ... Not throw the pirate treasure, or ignoring it altogether.
    ... Ignore floor cues, so they will ignore red circles and run away from the team when given a green circle. Sometimes there isn't even a group to help you disperse the green. They won't or can't react to the wind mechanic.

    All of these problems can be fixed after a few dry runs with a casual group, or with a more experienced player carrying dps or explaining mechanics.

    it's the same wind from deepstone
    the red circle is the same "flux bomb" from chaos fractal when you fight the anomaly
    the green circle, while probably new for new players, is quite common. raid, open world, 100 cm all have them

    allmost nothing is brand new, unless the player is brandnew. then it's more likely to be a l2p issue, with understanding your class and your role

    reflects? sure helpful
    condi cleanses? no-one likes perma slow
    boon removal? allways welcome

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 10, 2019

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    All of these problems can be fixed after a few dry runs with a casual group, or with a more experienced player carrying dps or explaining mechanics.

    allmost nothing is brand new, unless the player is brandnew. then it's more likely to be a l2p issue, with understanding your class and your role

    I'm glad we both agree.

    The thing is, if you don't have the experience in your party, then Sirens Reef is hell. Hense the term, "noob trap".

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Westenev.5289 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    All of these problems can be fixed after a few dry runs with a casual group, or with a more experienced player carrying dps or explaining mechanics.

    allmost nothing is brand new, unless the player is brandnew. then it's more likely to be a l2p issue, with understanding your class and your role

    I'm glad we both agree.

    The thing is, if you don't have the experience in your party, then Sirens Reef is hell. Hense the term, "noob trap".

    And that's why it is scaring new players away. New players won't have that experience.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • nosleepdemon.1368nosleepdemon.1368 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 12, 2019

    I don't mind it, the first time I did it I had to ask the rest of the group what the feck was killing me, but after the explanation about not ranging bomb guy and shark I had a good time. I did it on T4 twice and Scourge definitely helped as someone mentioned. On the last boss you want to deal with the adds somehow (again as mentioned already) unless your dps is really good, because they can become unmanageably numerous otherwise.

    Now Shattered Observatory is the one that really gets on my tatties because it's loooooong and that Goddess lady is just irritating. DDR guy is at least a nice Crescendo, though.

  • saw SR yesterday for the first time ever. I usually do not do fractals, but the rest of my guild does. They did T1 for a new player and I joined in.

    Compared to that Ascalon fractal with its arrow carts it did not seem that bad tbh.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 12, 2019

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    saw SR yesterday for the first time ever. I usually do not do fractals, but the rest of my guild does. They did T1 for a new player and I joined in.

    Compared to that Ascalon fractal with its arrow carts it did not seem that bad tbh.

    Urban Battleground is a lot older though and people had much more time to adjust. If it released today, you would see complain threads about 10 of those warriors charging you for 15k hits at once, how the section at the gate is impossible to survive due to the burning and how the fractal is way too long due to checking all the blocked paths, every time it's daily.
    But eventually people figure out that obviously none of that is a problem with the right approach.

    People just adjust incredibly slowly and like to cry nerf first and learn and improve later.

    Nothing in Siren's Reef is out of line and once the majority of players finally learn basic strategies like reflecting the Bristlebacks, one player manning the cannon at Blasting Black Peter to clear mines, figuring out who mans the cannons on the boat while one player clears the adds that spawn on it, bringing reflects and/or cleave, stacking for green, moving out for orange and to avoid the gusts, no one will bat an eye at this fractal anymore.

    It's always just a matter of what will happen first, people bothering to learn the mechanics so it's no hard anymore and stop complaining, or Anet nerfing the content so no one has to bother to learn anything or to improve anymore.

    The only thing that's slightly problematic is the Social Awkwardness Instability, but that's bad/annoying design in any Fractal.

    @nosleepdemon.1368 said:
    Now Shattered Observatory is the one that really gets on my tatties because it's loooooong and that Goddess lady is just irritating. DDR guy is at least a nice Crescendo, though.

    The trick there is to learn to do it in CM, which makes Shattered Observatory a lot faster by skipping all the dialoge.
    For Artsariiv, again, Reflects are your friend to negate all the orbs, especially the big ones that knock down.

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2019

    @maniksdi.1765 said:
    I found T1 Reef really annoying with my 250ess CMs team today.

    So you're telling me a CM team with 250 kp was not able to do T1 Reef efficiently?
    Even if you are not trolling I can't take that seriously.

  • Razor.9872Razor.9872 Member ✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    The difficulty of Siren's Reef decreases proportionally based on the amount of Scourges you have in your party.

    I'm serious. Everything that makes Reef's final boss fight a challenge is trivialized by Scourge, and the more Scourges, the more trivial it becomes.

    No Pain no Gain? Scourge
    We Bleed Fire? Scourge
    Frailty? Biggest health pool in the game Scourge
    Stick Together / Outflanked? Largest/Spammable AoE in the game
    Afflicted? Condition cleanse built into Largest/Spammable AoE in the game.

    Spammable barrier, fear, AoE's out the whazoo, a Scourge laughs at this fractal.

    If I was a conspiracy nut, I'd say that whoever designed Reef wanted a fractal to showcase the power of Scourge.

    So, Healbrand, Alacrigade, Scourge, Scourge, Scourge? :P

    NSPride~

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2019

    siren reef and deep stone etc are amazing fractals to play for the first few times.. but later very very annoying.. the length of fractal, the amount of stuff happening and the rediculous mobs.. deepstone last boss teleport here and there.. the mechanics are fun for first time.. not for after you doing it for many times. I do think maps like this should be removed from t1

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
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  • xenon.3264xenon.3264 Member ✭✭✭

    No
    Otherwise they will be terrible harder at T2.

    T1 exist for this very reason : to ler you experience the fight easier

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    The difficulty of Siren's Reef decreases proportionally based on the amount of Scourges you have in your party.

    I'm serious. Everything that makes Reef's final boss fight a challenge is trivialized by Scourge, and the more Scourges, the more trivial it becomes.

    No Pain no Gain? Scourge
    We Bleed Fire? Scourge
    Frailty? Biggest health pool in the game Scourge
    Stick Together / Outflanked? Largest/Spammable AoE in the game
    Afflicted? Condition cleanse built into Largest/Spammable AoE in the game.

    Spammable barrier, fear, AoE's out the whazoo, a Scourge laughs at this fractal.

    If I was a conspiracy nut, I'd say that whoever designed Reef wanted a fractal to showcase the power of Scourge.

    IMO Necros in general can because of their cleaves and well of corruption that can get rid of those enemy boons. Well of Power also handles afflicted entirely. And prot wells deal with frailty. Personally, I think Reaper is superior because you can still just all zerker but just take blood magic so you can easily res allies and take advantage of last rites. It just takes one reaper for this. I've managed to do t4 SR with 2000 ping because spamming 2 blindly does work xD

    Of course, the better your group is, the less necessary necro is, as necro's strength is being able to self generate necessary boons.

    @Razor.9872 said:
    So, Healbrand, Alacrigade, Scourge, Scourge, Scourge? :P

    With Firebugade you don't need any necros., just damage so you don't have to deal with so many mechanics to begin with. Healbrand does reflects and mantra of liberation while Rene does demon stance to boonstrip and give prot with Renegade. If you're still struggling, Rene could run Jalis. Usually failures here are because the Rene is too greedy with damage and stubbornly sticks with Shiro or the Firebrand isn't using Merciful Intervention well enough (could use bow of truth instead)

  • Besides the weird naming in the last few weeks on T1 this shouldn't be a problem for a CM groups. Heal FB on T4 is not enough at least when you want to do it relative easy either you need a necro or/and staff ele. Problem is the mob with their cc/chill, condis and dmg which they make easier with their aoe. The main problem in general in this fractals is when the last boss is on the sides and then the yellow and green cycle appears simultaneously its really lead to bad positioning which lead to be blown from the ship when you get then out of the water your way is in 95% the cases blocked because exactly at this moment the stripes are in the mid and you can't doge through because of chill.

    What you can do is so long there aren't 4 air stripes you pull back in the mid if you noticed that are you cornered

    As Heal FB you can use sword and merciful intervention to go back quickly without getting blocked so much. Yes mantra of liberation is also a must have and in general you need to pace your condi clean unlike other fractals where you can blast through the books same goes for Shiro 6 and 0 on the renegade those skills helps a lot.

    But still the fractal is nuts it is on the same difficulty as 99cm B2

  • Wolfb.7025Wolfb.7025 Member ✭✭✭

    The chill/slow spam is also a big problem here, I always have my healer go scrapper for this one fractal.

    Years just pass like trains
    I wave but they don't sloow dooown~ don't slow doown~♪

  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2019

    @maniksdi.1765 said:
    I am a big fan of the game. I play it every day and I plan on not quitting till I reach Fractal God status in the next few years.
    NOW! I am starting to see less and less ppl doing fractals. I assume new players are quitting game for good after tasting T1 Reef. Can we tone it down or remove it from T1? Why is it still more difficult than Observatory. I found T1 Reef really annoying with my 250ess CMs team today.

    Thanks for listening to my rant!
    Cred X

    Lots of people try to just burst the final boss down and that CAN work and is doable in current power levels. The way to handle that boss as a non gear check is killing the adds as they spawn on a timer and it will overwhelm you if your group doesn't have the dps.

  • The only thing I want to change about siren reef is give the last boss real breakbar, so we can stun and burst, also not many people know but reflects are super good at this fractal, I could see why now healing FB start to shine at fractal, they got tools to adapt to situations.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Id assume less ppl are doing fractals because less fractal content has come out.

    The status quo of a fractal every 2 lw episodes wasnt kept with bound by blood and in general less fractal stuff happened overall in the last year and a half.

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