Things that 100% make WvW unfun atm - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Things that 100% make WvW unfun atm

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  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:
    There are people today that don't go to the alpine maps either that stick to others like EBG. Does that mean we should just put 4 EBGs in place instead?

    Umm.... yes? :)

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic || Class Offense Defense Movement Balance is So Terribad ||

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    @Threather.9354 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    tldr. guild rankings (true to its name: guild wars 2)

    Yea I think guild rankings would be nice QoL, it could list the total kills, active total hours in WvW, members, objectives captured (maybe only representing people included?). It could have 3 leaderboards for different sized guilds like (1-20), (21-100), (101-500) and update every 2 hours. Obviously it should show ridiculous amount of guilds, like top 100, and your own guild compared to them, so that each server could have their most active guild in there.

    U recycle same not fun or good ideas we had post of 7 yrs now... U r not imaginative 4 fun things. I try 2 find fun things u say, but none I see, sorry. I only see u saying that everything 2 hard. 2 hard 2 attack bldg, 2 hard 2 get gear, 2 hard 2 run on dbl, 2 hard 2 get tower, 2 hard 2 fight bubble defense... that it.

    Ur ideas r... lets make more ez 2 attack bldg when it already ez. Make like spvp gear after 7 yrs, but players already get gears and all that do is “p” ppl off who make or earn gears. We already make VOTE n players won dessert bl, u not gonna change that, like srsly. No problem with tower alert, make more fight happn sometime, so what big deal here? “Shield Generator” make shield n block stuff. It not called “Boon Generator” bc it not boon maker, it “shield”... Guild ladder omgrenth.. Wvw good as broken down car n u want special guild numbers? This not spvp mode, n major of guilds dead or gone from game, but u want 2 see some special guild numbers for ego buff in mode waiting 4 tow truck to yard?

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    On the map topic, changing out desert for 3 alpine isn't going to change the outcome of matches, the weakest team which is usually red always gets double teamed for points (other than the first couple weeks after relinks when servers are adjusting to proper tiers), even before desert was even an idea. It's not going to change the mentality of servers not wanting to go to T1 because of BG blobbing. The game requires other changes to encourage players to go after the winning team, also more even population, and that ain't happening till alliance system which also isn't going to fully fix that problem either if they are still only going to count total activity hours, and not also time zones for population distribution at recreations.

    One of the biggest problems with the wvw system is it encourages going after the weakest for easy points, not going after and constantly applying pressure to the one winning the match, which is usually the one with the most coverage or population.

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic || Class Offense Defense Movement Balance is So Terribad ||

  • Remove the line of sight restrictions. It is ridiculous that you just can't do anything if you stand ON a wall. Even more ridiculous that rangers don't have any probs with that PLUS insane range.

    Defenders don't have it too easy. People are just feel entitled to easy faceroll defenders.

    Amulet system: hate the idea already.

    Desert BL: love that map. Unlike alpine it isn't BORING and you can be sneaky on it.

    SG are fine as they are.

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    On the map topic, changing out desert for 3 alpine isn't going to change the outcome of matches, the weakest team which is usually red always gets double teamed for points (other than the first couple weeks after relinks when servers are adjusting to proper tiers), even before desert was even an idea. It's not going to change the mentality of servers not wanting to go to T1 because of BG blobbing. The game requires other changes to encourage players to go after the winning team, also more even population, and that ain't happening till alliance system which also isn't going to fully fix that problem either if they are still only going to count total activity hours, and not also time zones for population distribution at recreations.

    One of the biggest problems with the wvw system is it encourages going after the weakest for easy points, not going after and constantly applying pressure to the one winning the match, which is usually the one with the most coverage or population.

    Well I checked the kills on NA red map compared to other maps, and the situation seems definitely to be slightly better there. Red map only has about half the kills of 1 alpine, compared to EU matchups where it is third of it. Pretty bad still on NA, but even worse on EU.

    There are lot of commanders/guilds/servers that refuse to play desert map. And as I said, it isn't EU T1 red side losing currently because they're getting double-teamed, but because they don't play desert map. T1, where the winning servers go, completely meaningless regarding points from the day of matchmaking. It isn't just 1 full server, it is some commanders, guilds and people from every server.

    Seems like the only solution for people who play for points is to transfer to T5 and climb up to T1 with the server, then transfer again to T5, if they want their actions to matter every week instead of every 2nd week. Ah wait, that doesn't seem very fun, huh. Also should I decide to scout this week because commanders won't defend red home border, or should I wait until next week? Hmm, decisions, decisions, so fun. Maybe player just doesn't play his preferred style of WvW for half the matchups just because there exists 2 different kind of borderlands, seems like completely reasonable thing to do.

    I am sorry but as long as the existance of 2 different borderlands brings so much variance to how servers play from one week to next, it is a major issue within the system. And the system shouldn't have such flaws. Players will always have flaws so you can't blame them for causing some part of the system to fail.

    Ri Ba - WvW Commander, scout, loudmouth, tryhard
    Making Desolation great again/Alt somewhere
    Diamond Legend

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    Man if only Mag had alpines this week, we woulda showed those BeeGees our superior numbers.
    /shakes fist

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic || Class Offense Defense Movement Balance is So Terribad ||

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    Man if only Mag had alpines this week, we woulda showed those BeeGees.
    /shakes fist

    Seems you misunderstand what I am wanting here. I don't want to win more matchups, my server plays red map, I play red map. What I want is for each matchup to be meaningful, not only for fights, but for points. And for scouts and players to have better understanding how the server activity is between weeks instead of it changing massively from one week to next just because the homeborder servers receive.

    Also I play on EU, not on NA, the issues here might be escalated up to a point where something needs to be done, try to understand them. I tried my best to explain, I will answer to any reasonable question you have about what is different here compared to your region.

    Ri Ba - WvW Commander, scout, loudmouth, tryhard
    Making Desolation great again/Alt somewhere
    Diamond Legend

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    Man if only Mag had alpines this week, we woulda showed those BeeGees our superior numbers.
    /shakes fist

    No... they would have made sure you came in second so you couldn’t go to T2. 😬🥴

  • @Sovereign.1093 said:
    imo. id like to get credit for the commanding i do thru my guild in our server. so, i do hope anet develops a system where we are recognized. (outside of team alliance)

    I know it’s not guild rankings, but isn’t that what the 5 extra pips is for when you throw up a comm tag and have a certain number of ppl in squad? Credit?
    I agree coms should get a bit more to encourage new coms, but as for credit 5 pips a tick is a lot.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Calisanna.8732 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    imo. id like to get credit for the commanding i do thru my guild in our server. so, i do hope anet develops a system where we are recognized. (outside of team alliance)

    I know it’s not guild rankings, but isn’t that what the 5 extra pips is for when you throw up a comm tag and have a certain number of ppl in squad? Credit?
    I agree coms should get a bit more to encourage new coms, but as for credit 5 pips a tick is a lot.

    it's not the rewards, it's the glory that comes with it. :P you don't command for loot.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • nthmetal.9652nthmetal.9652 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2019

    @Threather.9354 said:
    I mean for you these changes don't seem to be bad either...? Just you don't seem to think they do anything. Maybe you're just in an outlier group for which changes within WvW doesn't matter. I mean it isn't perfect obviously, so what would you like to be changed? What do you think are perfect stats from the claim buff, more or less? Would you like blobs to not be able to rush in objectives with shield gens while immune to any siege defender can build? Would you like certain tactics to be changed because they're useless/overpowered? Do you think anet should stop working on WvW balance and focus only on big updates instead of small balance changes like these they can do with snap of fingers?

    Not at all. But little rebalancings around objectives won't do a thing. Maybe they are even detrimental (already explained how I see defending objectives few posts above).
    But ArenaNet should examine the reason why one certain group composition is the go-to way for zergs in WvW. They should take a look at what scourges actually do - not as in the mechanics of the scourge, but as the result - they should take a look at the damage numbers, the amiunt of conditions. They should take a look at why certain strategies get executed over and over again, and others do not get used, and they should address that. More diversity should be the goal!

    The problem with these things are, that they are huge. Raids, Fractals and PvE content might be affected if you tune down the damage numbers. Changes to one class (Scourge for example) might not lead to a change of the meta, as area denial is still very important. One class mgiht end up simply being replaced by a different class. A change of the underlying mechanic (stacking of AoEs) on the other hand would be huge.
    I also think ArenaNet should make a few things more uniform. When you stack beneficial fields, only the last deployed field can be blasted, when you stack detrimental fields, they somehow all tick. Why? Does it have to be that way? Could the game benefit from diminishing returns of AoEs instead of trying to nerf and rebalance every single class that does AoEs?

    "and then we know that we have looked back through the ivory gates into that world of wonder which was ours before we were wise and unhappy"
    -- H. P. Lovecraft - Celephais

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @nthmetal.9652 said:

    @Threather.9354 said:
    I mean for you these changes don't seem to be bad either...? Just you don't seem to think they do anything. Maybe you're just in an outlier group for which changes within WvW doesn't matter. I mean it isn't perfect obviously, so what would you like to be changed? What do you think are perfect stats from the claim buff, more or less? Would you like blobs to not be able to rush in objectives with shield gens while immune to any siege defender can build? Would you like certain tactics to be changed because they're useless/overpowered? Do you think anet should stop working on WvW balance and focus only on big updates instead of small balance changes like these they can do with snap of fingers?

    Not at all. But little rebalancings around objectives won't do a thing. Maybe they are even detrimental (already explained how I see defending objectives few posts above).
    But ArenaNet should examine the reason why one certain group composition is the go-to way for zergs in WvW. They should take a look at what scourges actually do - not as in the mechanics of the scourge, but as the result - they should take a look at the damage numbers, the amiunt of conditions. They should take a look at why certain strategies get executed over and over again, and others do not get used, and they should address that. More diversity should be the goal!

    The problem with these things are, that they are huge. Raids, Fractals and PvE content might be affected if you tune down the damage numbers. Changes to one class (Scourge for example) might not lead to a change of the meta, as area denial is still very important. One class mgiht end up simply being replaced by a different class. A change of the underlying mechanic (stacking of AoEs) on the other hand would be huge.
    I also think ArenaNet should make a few things more uniform. When you stack beneficial fields, only the last deployed field can be blasted, when you stack detrimental fields, they somehow all tick. Why? Does it have to be that way? Could the game benefit from diminishing returns of AoEs instead of trying to nerf and rebalance every single class that does AoEs?

    maybe it's best to just leave things as they are, but reduce tiers. i mean it may be hard or something for t1 ppl, but in lower tiers, i like these things.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2019

    @nthmetal.9652 said:
    Not at all. But little rebalancings around objectives won't do a thing. Maybe they are even detrimental (already explained how I see defending objectives few posts above).
    But ArenaNet should examine the reason why one certain group composition is the go-to way for zergs in WvW. They should take a look at what scourges actually do - not as in the mechanics of the scourge, but as the result - they should take a look at the damage numbers, the amiunt of conditions. They should take a look at why certain strategies get executed over and over again, and others do not get used, and they should address that. More diversity should be the goal!
    The problem with these things are, that they are huge. Raids, Fractals and PvE content might be affected if you tune down the damage numbers. Changes to one class (Scourge for example) might not lead to a change of the meta, as area denial is still very important. One class mgiht end up simply being replaced by a different class. A change of the underlying mechanic (stacking of AoEs) on the other hand would be huge.
    I also think ArenaNet should make a few things more uniform. When you stack beneficial fields, only the last deployed field can be blasted, when you stack detrimental fields, they somehow all tick. Why? Does it have to be that way? Could the game benefit from diminishing returns of AoEs instead of trying to nerf and rebalance every single class that does AoEs?

    They are not detrimental, they follow good game design for a strategic PvP gamemode, which WvW is. Meaningful decisionmaking and there being some/more equal ground for PvP fights are necessary. Desert border is only a slight design issue regarding balance but the bigger issue is that playerbase reaction to it is causing WvW to lose its purpose and making it the server internal activity overly complicated.

    Yes, I didn't want to suggest many changes for class balance, only a few trait changes to make classes that are troublesome regarding WvW class diversity; Too much condi conversion and boon duration (WvW specific nerf) and classes being too deadly while too reliable (big shades). None of these would affect PvE where you fight mostly static targets.

    Surely one could make different thread regarding how they should change AoE fields, but for me any feedback that doesn't go in detail and just circlejerks same issues everyone shouts about is just crying to wall. For this, I would make a completely different thread. This threads suggestion purpose was different, Bringing out solutions to WvW problems that are not too large to implement, rather than striving for perfect meta. My suggestion to anyone that wants certain things to be changed in meta, need to provide answers, not more questions, considering the same questions have been around for years.

    And my opinion is that if you cast a new field on top of existing field would cancel the possiblity of blasting existing field (that can be blasted by only 5 different people anyways), would open possibility to in combat trolling by teammates. Current system where 1 blast finisher blasts 1 field is fine. Solution to your problem would be rather be increasing cooldown of blasts/fields or reducing radius of AoE fields in terms of good game design.

    Ri Ba - WvW Commander, scout, loudmouth, tryhard
    Making Desolation great again/Alt somewhere
    Diamond Legend

  • mulzi.8273mulzi.8273 Member ✭✭✭

    @Calisanna.8732 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    imo. id like to get credit for the commanding i do thru my guild in our server. so, i do hope anet develops a system where we are recognized. (outside of team alliance)

    I know it’s not guild rankings, but isn’t that what the 5 extra pips is for when you throw up a comm tag and have a certain number of ppl in squad? Credit?
    I agree coms should get a bit more to encourage new coms, but as for credit 5 pips a tick is a lot.

    Only if its a public comm tag. Everyone and their mother will abuse this if they can make the upcoming invisible have special perks.

  • At the end of the day anytime something as obscene as the current zerg composed of FB/Scourge becomes the key element to winning any battle the game has lost the war. There should never be a must play style to win in WvW, sure some advantages perhaps clearing quicker etc but to turn the game into a giant shambling of 2 classes to see who's fingers gets sore first to win a battle is flat out poor design. We have been plagued by this for months and yet nobody at Anet seems to give a rats kitten, which is a bad sign.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 12, 2019

    mmm fb scourge is not a must play. :3

    what is a must play is synergy of classes. and an example of those is fb and scourge.

    another key element is nos., and for the commander, imagination and experience. for the members, discipline and experience.

    the most important of all is, good internet connection.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 12, 2019

    Nah FB/scourge is a must. So is superspeed (scrapper usually). This is talking about any group that is above 10 people. Obviously you want to have some spellbreakers and revs too.

    I do believe that existance of guardians and scourges is necessary for WvW group fights to work (stab/mid range boon removal), so I don't mind too much about their necessity. Just make them have higher skillcap somehow. I recommended making scourges have 3 small shades (so they need to aim better) a must, removing the larger shades option completely.

    Anyways 7 classes are really good in WvW, so there really isn't any major group comp issues. Some are just more necessary than others, f/e you want only a few chronos for grav/illusion. Thief/Ranger could use some weapon changes to be viable in WvW groups. Ranger has 0 impactful weapons for WvW groups, thief has 1 (staff). Like 1 necro landing axe/scepter 3 is worth more towards outcome of the battle than what a ranger can do with all the skills on both his weapons. Similar reworks to what happened to guardian shield would be nice; Minor AoE boons/heals, more mobility.

    Ri Ba - WvW Commander, scout, loudmouth, tryhard
    Making Desolation great again/Alt somewhere
    Diamond Legend

  • Pagan Highlander.5948Pagan Highlander.5948 Member ✭✭
    edited August 12, 2019

    lol try being on a wall trying to defend when you have 25 scourges bombing and clearing said wall. their ability to hit over and through walls is insane. This person obviously must be from a T-1 server and has no idea how hard it is to defend anything on the lower tiered servers where the attackers have all the advantages unless the have a map blob. Fix and remove advantages and flawed abilities of the attacker plus give back some of the unique abilities like Mesmer being able to hide and then you can take away the defender advantages

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2019

    @Pagan Highlander.5948 said:
    lol try being on a wall trying to defend when you have 25 scourges bombing and clearing said wall. their ability to hit over and through walls is insane. This person obviously must be from a T-1 server and has no idea how hard it is to defend anything on the lower tiered servers where the attackers have all the advantages unless the have a map blob. Fix and remove advantages and flawed abilities of the attacker plus give back some of the unique abilities like Mesmer being able to hide and then you can take away the defender advantages

    If you read the thing carefully, not just the first sentence:

    • There are nerf to shield gens, so you can actually take the attacker siege down as your ACs, trebs and ballistas would work. This would nerf your attacking blobs massively and actually allow you to do other things than watching them from the walls.
    • The nerf to defending would be reducing the extra stats so that the attackers actually have a reason to attempt attacking something when enemy has equal numbers on the map . As a defender (or attacker) you should be enthuastic about increase of epic long-duration defence battles rather than being like "only my server will lose keeps because this nerf".
    • Upgrade times should be nerfed, I mean they don't affect you much because you only focused on the defending aspect, but stuff upgrades too fast. Up to a point where if you don't have a commander for 1.5 hours, enemy has a full t3 border. This is terrible for all open commanders and guilds, primetime and offtime. Single groups and guilds have almost no impact to outcome of scoring even if they crush their opposition during the time they're active. Same affects even camp flippers that like to cap camps to slow enemy upgrade times.

    So there are nerfs to both attacking (making attackers have to be smarter/making offense take longer) and a nerf to defender stats (equal fighting grounds)

    Maybe you didn't play the game pre-HoT but back then you could hold back blobs with trebs and acs for a while. Thus your defending style of hiding on the walls, which obviously isn't viable, would be actually buffed, so your complaining is irrational.

    My opinion regarding if you could just freecast from top of the wall to below without attacker being able to retaliate, it would be super unfun and unfair for the attackers. You can literally build an ac if you want to hit from safety of a wall. Or just jump off the wall and pewpew at them (you obviously have range since you were planning to cast on them from walls) and as soon as they come close, you run away with your superior defending build against immobile blobbers.

    Don't forget that the game offers tools like Burning Retreat + Meteor Shower combo for eles to clear offensive sieges and cast. How does it work? Well you click 4 and double click 5 fast while you have Lock skill range at maximum range enabled (necessary setting for WvW) and you can channel meteor from safety of the wall. There are also other classes that can still cast from safety of the wall, for example necromancer can easily cast his wells, he just doesn't pop the stab before he goes on the edge of the wall, but rather for the stunbreak so he can dodge away. Unfortunately you have to play around the combat mechanics, you cant just brain afk cast on the enemy, unless you place an ac smartly to a position where it doesn't get instantly taken down. Of course you can use stab skills before you man it.

    But yeah, these changes would mean you can actually you siege to defend (shield gen nerf), so you should be happy about the suggested changes.

    And my intention with these changes is not to make so that you and your 2 friends can hold off the fun of 60 people by standing on the walls pewpewing, it is just making WvW decisions more relevant, for both defenders and attackers, and making it more clear what your server/timezone WvW strength is instead of it varying by both location and colours.

    Also if you read my signature, it says Desolation. Desolation is not a T1 server, it is T2. So don't be rude and use your observation talent.

    Ri Ba - WvW Commander, scout, loudmouth, tryhard
    Making Desolation great again/Alt somewhere
    Diamond Legend

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i run zerk scourge sometimes. if u have problem being pulled dont stand on wall. be in position to use siege. and if they too many, grit and let go. the many is supposed to take from the few. so the moment u can pull off a win against them cherish

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • •Elite specialisations.
    •PvE gear.

    WvW could be a lovely place without those.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:
    •Elite specialisations.
    •PvE gear.

    WvW could be a lovely place without those.

    Especially without PvE gear since everyone would be running around naked with no weapons.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    The fact that if fb and scourge were both mechanically altered to be vastly different as to how they play now would alter how zergs in wvw would play out and function to such a large degree says something to their design and to zergs reliance on them at this time. As long as those two class remain unchanged wvw will just be a big blob spam fest clown fiesta. Any decent developers who had a legitimate concern for the game mode would have identified this shortly after POF released and would have made drastic changes to those specs. The fact they didn't shows how invested they are in the mode. That and the addition of mounts doesn't leave to much hope doe the mode.

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:
    •Elite specialisations.
    •PvE gear.

    WvW could be a lovely place without those.

    Especially without PvE gear since everyone would be running around naked with no weapons.

    Shake that booty.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ppl should try 1fb 4 revs team. its so much fun. :3

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Man so tired of broken specs. So tired.

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic || Class Offense Defense Movement Balance is So Terribad ||

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:
    •Elite specialisations.
    •PvE gear.

    WvW could be a lovely place without those.

    Especially without PvE gear since everyone would be running around naked with no weapons.

    That's hawt!

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:
    •Elite specialisations.
    •PvE gear.

    WvW could be a lovely place without those.

    Especially without PvE gear since everyone would be running around naked with no weapons.

    Moobyfest!

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