Flurry, it stinks, what can we replace it with? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Flurry, it stinks, what can we replace it with?

Warriors,

Sword F1 is awful. The self root keeps it from ever being used, the damage isn't worth using over auto attacking, and the long duration immobilize is no longer useful with the amount of condition clearing that is in the game now. Flurry either needs some major changes, or we need a new sword F1.

I'd like to hear what you all think. (I would have done a poll, but I don't know how to do that yet).

Some rules for posting your ideas though:

  • Damage must be split between condi and power to keep the sword hybrid damage identity. Bleed and/or torment are valid choices. Cripple, immobilize are fine so long as they apply per hit.
  • Must maintain mobility. Either by allowing movement during skill activation/channel or by being a leap itself.
  • Damage can be less than the auto attack so long as a true benefit exists to using the skill, like an added conditional effect.
  • No jumping the shark, lets be realistic.

Here are two ideas I had:

Remove self-root, remove immobilize, add a scaling knockdown effect if the target was immobilized (2s, 3s, 4s based on adrenaline spent). This solves the mobility issue and gives a strong CC if the target was immobilized. I think this would be very versatile and fun. The knockdown would only happen once per target hit as there are up to 11 strikes to Flurry in the event there were multiple targets struck that were immobilized.

OR

New F1 called Galrath Slash. Single strike, applies 11 stacks of bleed, has 1.0 power scaling, immobilizes foe (2s, 3s, 4s based on adrenaline spent). 1/4s cast time. Cleaves. Basically just put all of flurry into one attack. Self-root gone, and instead we get a powerful and quick attack that is a setup for Final Thrust and gives sword MH the ability to punish someone. Yes I put max bleed stacks in there, the difference between 9 and 11 stacks is minimal.

Comments

  • cryorion.9532cryorion.9532 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2019

    I agree that the sword core burst is kinda outdated. Since the burst cannot be used with Berserker anymore, I would suggest power oriented rework of the burst.

    What about this: new sword burst is basically Final Thrust but with 1/2 second cast time (bonus damage when used on targets bellow 50% HP still remains). Sword 3 (old Final Thrust) is replaced with new skill, a sword throw that immobilizes enemies and deals either medium power damage or stacks bleeds (animation is same as sword 4 skill). Sword 4 is changed into single target 1 sec stun/daze skill (with some swipe animation, similar to daredevil staff 2 skill, but without movement part; or just hilt smash with off-hand sword). The 4th skill could also apply weakness. Also to add, change sword 5 2nd part of skill, Adrenaline Rush, to give 10 adrenaline instead of just 3. Same for mace :)

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2019

    @cryorion.9532 said:
    I agree that the sword core burst is kinda outdated. Since the burst cannot be used with Berserker anymore, I would suggest power oriented rework of the burst.

    What about this: new sword burst is basically Final Thrust but with 1/2 second cast time (bonus damage when used on targets bellow 50% HP still remains). Sword 3 (old Final Thrust) is replaced with new skill, a sword throw that immobilizes enemies and deals either medium power damage or stacks bleeds (animation is same as sword 4 skill). Sword 4 is changed into single target 1 sec stun/daze skill (with some swipe animation, similar to daredevil staff 2 skill, but without movement part; or just hilt smash with off-hand sword). The 4th skill could also apply weakness. Also to add, change sword 5 2nd part of skill, Adrenaline Rush, to give 10 adrenaline instead of just 3. Same for mace :)

    Those aren't bad ideas, but the focus here is Core F1 not OH sword.

    That being said making F1 to be Final Thrust is not a bad idea and sword 3 would need to be replaced if that happened. Swapping Sword 4 into 3, and make Sword 4 a sweeping AoE Knockdown instead would make a great Sword/Sword bar. I'm thinking along the lines of Griffon Sweep from GW1 here btw for Sword 4.

    How would Final Thrust be modified by Adrenaline then though? Extra bleed stacks? A scaling duration boon like retaliation? More damage below target health of 50% (50%, 100%, 150%)?

    I believe Adrenaline Rush grants 6 strikes btw, at least in PvE. It should be the same as mace regardless.

    Nice suggestion.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The spirit of MH Sword is a mobility based weapon. It both grants mobility to the user as well as reduces mobility of enemies (AA, 2, f1).

    With this in mind, I think the self root needs to be dropped, but that cripple should be added as part of the burst conditions that are inflicted.

    Additionally, I'd like to see core Condi have a little more than just doing bleed damage. In keeping with the anti-mobility theme, I think f1 should diversify and also add torment on every other strike.

    To help with power damage, grant more power damage if 2 is used in under 200 range.

    That's all I got!

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2019

    Oh, one other thing. I really don't want them to completely rework sword. I love the leap on 2 and would hate to lose the feel that sword has. With berserker and scrapper changes, I don't want a completely new set of skills on my sword, just some fine tuning...oh sword, however, is a different story!

  • @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Oh, one other thing. I really don't want them to completely rework sword. I love the leap on 2 and would hate to lose the feel that sword has. With berserker and scrapper changes, I don't want a completely new set of skills on my sword, just some fine tuning...oh sword, however, is a different story!

    Well, this is supposed to be about Flurry and nothing else. @cryorion.9532 suggested moving Final Thrust to F1, which is in itself a good suggestion, it just invites more changes to the Sword bar, which I'd rather avoid as it would be less likely that Anet listens to what feedback is provided.

    To build on your suggestion:
    Flurry: Changed to no rooting, applies cripple (make it 1s per hit for simplicity) and 1stack of torment every hit for 4s (again for simplicity). Increase power scaling on each hit by 0.05 meaning that a full 11 hits has an extra 0.55 on the power scaling.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Oh, one other thing. I really don't want them to completely rework sword. I love the leap on 2 and would hate to lose the feel that sword has. With berserker and scrapper changes, I don't want a completely new set of skills on my sword, just some fine tuning...oh sword, however, is a different story!

    Well, this is supposed to be about Flurry and nothing else. @cryorion.9532 suggested moving Final Thrust to F1, which is in itself a good suggestion, it just invites more changes to the Sword bar, which I'd rather avoid as it would be less likely that Anet listens to what feedback is provided.

    To build on your suggestion:
    Flurry: Changed to no rooting, applies cripple (make it 1s per hit for simplicity) and 1stack of torment every hit for 4s (again for simplicity). Increase power scaling on each hit by 0.05 meaning that a full 11 hits has an extra 0.55 on the power scaling.

    I like your thoughts! Simple and clean. I don't think this would be OP, but if it ended up being too strong, it would be easy to reduce durations. Win, WI for the balance team.

  • Smoosh.2718Smoosh.2718 Member ✭✭

    I wouldnt mind seeing a form of blind thrown onto Sword F1, give it a more rounded role,

    Rather than the stand still attack the air like you're trying to swat a fly, have the sword swipe into the floor spinning 360 around and then flick up at the end of the attack throwing dirt all around the player, causing damage bleed and blind to all foes in range. The more adrenalin, the more intense the stacks + damage.

    Or, to give the sword the mobility and ability to be in the flight as it feels like it was designed, i would propose the following two:

    Core version
    * Crippling Dash - Dash towards your target location and slash the legs of targets on route. knocking them down for [1s] [1.5s] [2s] dependant on adrenalin levels. This skill will cause cripple and bleeding upon aplication.
    Berserker version:
    * **Burning Dash **- Set your sword ablaze and dash towards your target location burning, bleeding and crippling all targets in the way. You leave behind you a trail of fire burning duration [2s] per stack. This attack will daze anything which is struck for [1/4s]

    Both versions would be Ground target and skill based. Dash distance 360 - 400 range.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2019

    It needs to have the equivalent power output of Axe overtime per burst (Edit: After testing because it has been so long, it kinda does already forget about that, it would make it stronger than Axe and GS if it was to be changed, speed up the channeling instead.), pulse Cripple and Torment with the Bleeding, Immobilize on it is still great. Making it hard to come out is the idea.

  • Kiroshima.8497Kiroshima.8497 Member ✭✭✭

    I really don't want final thrust to be the burst skill, as the damage is poor outside of the threshold and MH sword has 0 ways of getting someone under 50% on its own, or with any off hand.

    Instead I'd rather see it be a combination of:
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Disarm
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hundred_Blades

    We'll call it like, Dancing Blades or something.

    Leap at an enemy, evading and dazing them for 1/4 seconds and ignoring stability. If you interrupt an enemy, all Weapon Skills are disabled for 1/2/3 seconds. Does negligible damage.
    After leaping, regardless of striking an enemy, gain Hundred Blades for 3/6/9 seconds. Hundred Blades is a buff that grants ALL ATTACKS a bonus strike on enemies within 180 radius of the original target, doing power damage AND bleeding. Enemies cannot be damaged more than once per attack source (so if you strike 3 enemies with an attack, you get 3 bonus strikes but they can only damage the same target once).

  • To clarify, just because I like something someone posts does not mean that I necessarily think that should be the choice made, so far all of you have presented fun proposed updates to Flurry.

    @Kiroshima.8497 said:
    I really don't want final thrust to be the burst skill, as the damage is poor outside of the threshold and MH sword has 0 ways of getting someone under 50% on its own, or with any off hand.

    Instead I'd rather see it be a combination of:
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Disarm
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hundred_Blades

    We'll call it like, Dancing Blades or something.

    Leap at an enemy, evading and dazing them for 1/4 seconds and ignoring stability. If you interrupt an enemy, all Weapon Skills are disabled for 1/2/3 seconds. Does negligible damage.
    After leaping, regardless of striking an enemy, gain Hundred Blades for 3/6/9 seconds. Hundred Blades is a buff that grants ALL ATTACKS a bonus strike on enemies within 180 radius of the original target, doing power damage AND bleeding. Enemies cannot be damaged more than once per attack source (so if you strike 3 enemies with an attack, you get 3 bonus strikes but they can only damage the same target once).

    Why not strip their stability and then daze them? I think what you are wanting here is a bit of a reach, but there are good things in it like the evading leap + daze. I think F1 being a buff that adds additional strikes is also a good idea, but I think meshing these two ideas together may be too much.

    @Smoosh.2718 said:
    I wouldnt mind seeing a form of blind thrown onto Sword F1, give it a more rounded role,

    Rather than the stand still attack the air like you're trying to swat a fly, have the sword swipe into the floor spinning 360 around and then flick up at the end of the attack throwing dirt all around the player, causing damage bleed and blind to all foes in range. The more adrenalin, the more intense the stacks + damage.

    Or, to give the sword the mobility and ability to be in the flight as it feels like it was designed, i would propose the following two:

    Core version
    * Crippling Dash - Dash towards your target location and slash the legs of targets on route. knocking them down for [1s] [1.5s] [2s] dependant on adrenalin levels. This skill will cause cripple and bleeding upon aplication.
    Berserker version:
    * **Burning Dash **- Set your sword ablaze and dash towards your target location burning, bleeding and crippling all targets in the way. You leave behind you a trail of fire burning duration [2s] per stack. This attack will daze anything which is struck for [1/4s]

    Both versions would be Ground target and skill based. Dash distance 360 - 400 range.

    I like the Crippling Dash idea very cool and fun sounding. Adds a lot more mobility and some CC. Flaming Flurry is a fine Primal Burst and does not need an update, but that is also a unique and fun idea. The aoe blind attack is also very swordplay meme and would also be fun.

  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭

    If I'm being realistic, flurry needs to be unrooted, have it's' damage inccreased massively, and have its cast time reduced.

    If AT LEAST that was done, it wouldn't be so bad.

  • Kiroshima.8497Kiroshima.8497 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    To clarify, just because I like something someone posts does not mean that I necessarily think that should be the choice made, so far all of you have presented fun proposed updates to Flurry.

    Why not strip their stability and then daze them? I think what you are wanting here is a bit of a reach, but there are good things in it like the evading leap + daze. I think F1 being a buff that adds additional strikes is also a good idea, but I think meshing these two ideas together may be too much.

    The reason I don't want to rip stab is because I don't want warrior to be a boon destruction class without spellbreaker. By making you able to daze THROUGH stab, it still lets you disarm foes without ripping away their protection from other hard cc skills like bulls charge and such. The goal of the skill is to interrupt an attack and reduce pressure, not to lock them down (which is why it doesnt lock out their utilities). It's more finesse than power, and warrior doesn't get to show that they are capable of it that often. It also ensures that dagger burst (which should put Disenchantment on foes IMO) is still the boon rip burst, while sword is the interrupter into an offensive buff state, but you still need to land further attacks in order to gain more damage. It also preserves sword's ability to complement weapon swap after the burst since you could swap to say, Longbow for a pulsing aoe with the Hundred Blades buff, or Greatsword 100 Blades with the Hundred Blades buff for even MORE SWORDS.

    The reason why it also has a buff is that it allows sword to focus on its multi-hit game plan without being super commital to a self rooted (or even slow channel movent, it's a sword for fast movement and finesse) and act as an homage to one of the more classic GW1 sword skills, Hundred Blades. Just the evade/interrupt alone is hardly a burst skill, especially one with a more limited targeting method than full counter (which is a 300 radius, 5 target, unblockable attack).

    Of course off hand sword would need a fix to go with this >_>
    Off hand sword is cursed.

  • @TheBravery.9615 said:
    If I'm being realistic, flurry needs to be unrooted, have it's' damage inccreased massively, and have its cast time reduced.

    If AT LEAST that was done, it wouldn't be so bad.

    Very true. The cast time isn't so much of the issue though if you can move however if the damage is increased.

    What would be an appropriate damage increase to you? More power damage, more bleeds, or add torment stacks? Why not have 11 stacks of torment instead of the immobilize? That is the OH sword condition and it would still fit with core, and would increase the damage output.

    Personally I think the power damage needs to be at least twice as high, at minimum, to address the damage issue, not precluding any increases to condi damage either. I'm willing to have less damage though if a strong CC is there, or the right amount of the right kind of boon(s).

    Some boons that would be fitting:
    Retaliation
    Protection
    Quickness
    Vigor

    A mixture of them at 4s duration each or 1 for a very long duration would fit into a swordmaster's kit thematically.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    what? don't mess with flurry.

    you don't know till you know, ya know.

  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭

    Back in the days, Hammer sw/warhorn shout warrior was meta and flurry was actually usable

    You guys remember that? Pepperidge farm remembers

  • Acheron.4731Acheron.4731 Member ✭✭✭

    I mentioned this in the other thread on 'sword' but perhaps a weaver fire 2 in (jump, spin in on attack) and water sword 2 out (evade back)
    OR weaver sword 2 in with smoke field that can be blasted with warhorn or proc'd with leap combo (already on sword)

    Top ten reasons I procrastinate:
    1.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @TheBravery.9615 said:
    If I'm being realistic, flurry needs to be unrooted, have it's' damage inccreased massively, and have its cast time reduced.

    If AT LEAST that was done, it wouldn't be so bad.

    Very true. The cast time isn't so much of the issue though if you can move however if the damage is increased.

    What would be an appropriate damage increase to you? More power damage, more bleeds, or add torment stacks? Why not have 11 stacks of torment instead of the immobilize? That is the OH sword condition and it would still fit with core, and would increase the damage output.

    Personally I think the power damage needs to be at least twice as high, at minimum, to address the damage issue, not precluding any increases to condi damage either. I'm willing to have less damage though if a strong CC is there, or the right amount of the right kind of boon(s).

    Some boons that would be fitting:
    Retaliation
    Protection
    Quickness
    Vigor

    A mixture of them at 4s duration each or 1 for a very long duration would fit into a swordmaster's kit thematically.

    If you double it's power damage it puts it's above many other bursts. It's current coefficient is ~2.0 for the whole skill.
    Level 3 Eviscerate is at 3.0 for example. Doubling it to 4 would make it far too strong for the type of weapon sword is.

    If you add torment instead of imob on top of the bleeds it would be too strong. Instead of the bleeds would make sense. Or reduce it to 4 strikes so you can do 4/4 torment/bleed.

    On a serious note I feel all the skill needs as a start are two things:

    1. Unroofed. Obvious reasons.
    2. Faster cast time. 2.5s is too long. Drop it to 1~1.5s.
  • @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @TheBravery.9615 said:
    If I'm being realistic, flurry needs to be unrooted, have it's' damage inccreased massively, and have its cast time reduced.

    If AT LEAST that was done, it wouldn't be so bad.

    Very true. The cast time isn't so much of the issue though if you can move however if the damage is increased.

    What would be an appropriate damage increase to you? More power damage, more bleeds, or add torment stacks? Why not have 11 stacks of torment instead of the immobilize? That is the OH sword condition and it would still fit with core, and would increase the damage output.

    Personally I think the power damage needs to be at least twice as high, at minimum, to address the damage issue, not precluding any increases to condi damage either. I'm willing to have less damage though if a strong CC is there, or the right amount of the right kind of boon(s).

    Some boons that would be fitting:
    Retaliation
    Protection
    Quickness
    Vigor

    A mixture of them at 4s duration each or 1 for a very long duration would fit into a swordmaster's kit thematically.

    If you double it's power damage it puts it's above many other bursts. It's current coefficient is ~2.0 for the whole skill.
    Level 3 Eviscerate is at 3.0 for example. Doubling it to 4 would make it far too strong for the type of weapon sword is.

    If you add torment instead of imob on top of the bleeds it would be too strong. Instead of the bleeds would make sense. Or reduce it to 4 strikes so you can do 4/4 torment/bleed.

    On a serious note I feel all the skill needs as a start are two things:

    1. Unroofed. Obvious reasons.
    2. Faster cast time. 2.5s is too long. Drop it to 1~1.5s.

    That is over 2 seconds though, so as far as 'DPS' goes that is kind of low in comparison to other bursts. The DPS of Flurry NOW is too low relative to just auto attacking, and that is because of the channel time relative to the number of hits. So adding more condi or more power damage would actually bring it in line with other burst in terms of damage if the channel remains the same. Obviously if you reduce the channel the amount of condi/power added to it would have to drop. The current damage that it does would be fine for a 1-3 hit skill with no channel time, not a 9-11 hit channeled skill.

    1) Agreed
    2) Agreed that just reducing the channel time is itself a valid way to make it better and useful. I'd say 1s though personally.

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    what? don't mess with flurry.

    Why do you think it is currently okay? Or is that you are afraid of Anet making it worse?

  • AsiraasiB.7165AsiraasiB.7165 Member ✭✭✭

    Isnt sword hybrid?

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭

    Removing the self root only would already make it much better.

  • @AsiraasiB.7165 said:
    Isnt sword hybrid?

    Yes, and all responses reflect that thus far.

  • Tycura.1982Tycura.1982 Member ✭✭✭

    A burst skill dependant on your offhand weapon.

  • @Tycura.1982 said:
    A burst skill dependant on your offhand weapon.

    That would be nice. An F2 based on your Offhand, and two handers get 2 bursts. Maybe Berserkers could get F1 Bursts back.

    What Offhand Bursts would you like to see?

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭

    I think the idea for lunge to take the place for burst with some changes so it is more in line with other bursts is actually good, that opens the third sword skill for better ability one with whirl finisher like fast flourish to twirl the sword around and apply some stacks of bleed and activate a combo field(not spinning like a mad man that works on axe, not so much on swords) , i know i'm greedy to want the condition weapon to work with the condition field of torch on berserker, but come on torch is nice it just needs activators.

  • @Vancho.8750 said:
    I think the idea for lunge to take the place for burst with some changes so it is more in line with other bursts is actually good, that opens the third sword skill for better ability one with whirl finisher like fast flourish to twirl the sword around and apply some stacks of bleed and activate a combo field(not spinning like a mad man that works on axe, not so much on swords) , i know i'm greedy to want the condition weapon to work with the condition field of torch on berserker, but come on torch is nice it just needs activators.

    You can run sword/torch + sword/axe and whirl in the field but I get what you mean. I think what someone mentioned about with a series of rapid thrusts could also activate a combo field. I think projectile finisher would be more to the point (ahem), but it would probably need to be a whirling finisher.

  • Tycura.1982Tycura.1982 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2019

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    A burst skill dependant on your offhand weapon.

    That would be nice. An F2 based on your Offhand, and two handers get 2 bursts. Maybe Berserkers could get F1 Bursts back.

    What Offhand Bursts would you like to see?

    I was just thinking sword could be the only offhand burst weapon since flurry isn't good or memorable. As far as skills I'd say it should fit their theme and make better use of offhand weapons.

    OH Sword -> Evading Slash (Think ranger sword)
    OH Axe -> Leg Swipe (melee range pull)

    OH Mace -> Disarming Bash (Weakness and vulnerability)

    OH Shield -> Stability boon and melee range knockback

    OH Warhorn -> AoE based on targets hit for healing.

    OH Torch can stay as fire flavored flurry

    OH Dagger -> 600 range thrown dagger projection with small .25 second daze.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kiroshima.8497 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    To clarify, just because I like something someone posts does not mean that I necessarily think that should be the choice made, so far all of you have presented fun proposed updates to Flurry.

    Why not strip their stability and then daze them? I think what you are wanting here is a bit of a reach, but there are good things in it like the evading leap + daze. I think F1 being a buff that adds additional strikes is also a good idea, but I think meshing these two ideas together may be too much.

    The reason I don't want to rip stab is because I don't want warrior to be a boon destruction class without spellbreaker. By making you able to daze THROUGH stab, it still lets you disarm foes without ripping away their protection from other hard cc skills like bulls charge and such. The goal of the skill is to interrupt an attack and reduce pressure, not to lock them down (which is why it doesnt lock out their utilities). It's more finesse than power, and warrior doesn't get to show that they are capable of it that often. It also ensures that dagger burst (which should put Disenchantment on foes IMO) is still the boon rip burst, while sword is the interrupter into an offensive buff state, but you still need to land further attacks in order to gain more damage. It also preserves sword's ability to complement weapon swap after the burst since you could swap to say, Longbow for a pulsing aoe with the Hundred Blades buff, or Greatsword 100 Blades with the Hundred Blades buff for even MORE SWORDS.

    The reason why it also has a buff is that it allows sword to focus on its multi-hit game plan without being super commital to a self rooted (or even slow channel movent, it's a sword for fast movement and finesse) and act as an homage to one of the more classic GW1 sword skills, Hundred Blades. Just the evade/interrupt alone is hardly a burst skill, especially one with a more limited targeting method than full counter (which is a 300 radius, 5 target, unblockable attack).

    Of course off hand sword would need a fix to go with this >_>
    Off hand sword is cursed.

    I rly like the idea of a unique buff for warrior, especially since it feels like warriors are becoming less unique with every expansion added.

    Also, we dont rly have a single burst skill that gives us some kind of buff (which i know goes against the theme of being a "burst" and nothing over time, but it would be refreshing to have something like that.

    The only problem i see with your hundred blade homage is that a one handed sword is more of a single target weapon, or a dueling weapon, and not a cleaving weapon like a greatsword for example and dont see were that kind of buff would actually be helpful

  • @Tycura.1982 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    A burst skill dependant on your offhand weapon.

    That would be nice. An F2 based on your Offhand, and two handers get 2 bursts. Maybe Berserkers could get F1 Bursts back.

    What Offhand Bursts would you like to see?

    I was just thinking sword could be the only offhand burst weapon since flurry isn't good or memorable. As far as skills I'd say it should fit their theme and make better use of offhand weapons.

    OH Sword -> Evading Slash (Think ranger sword)
    OH Axe -> Leg Swipe (melee range pull)

    OH Mace -> Disarming Bash (Weakness and vulnerability)

    OH Shield -> Stability boon and melee range knockback

    OH Warhorn -> AoE based on targets hit for healing.

    OH Torch can stay as fire flavored flurry

    OH Dagger -> 600 range thrown dagger projection with small .25 second daze.

    Well If F2 burst were added I do not think Berserker or Spellbreaker would get them, so no torch or dagger. Overall though those are good ideas. I suppose that evading slash would inflict torment and have respectable power damage on it.

    What sort of F2s would you give the two handers?

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kiroshima.8497 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    To clarify, just because I like something someone posts does not mean that I necessarily think that should be the choice made, so far all of you have presented fun proposed updates to Flurry.

    Why not strip their stability and then daze them? I think what you are wanting here is a bit of a reach, but there are good things in it like the evading leap + daze. I think F1 being a buff that adds additional strikes is also a good idea, but I think meshing these two ideas together may be too much.

    The reason I don't want to rip stab is because I don't want warrior to be a boon destruction class without spellbreaker. By making you able to daze THROUGH stab, it still lets you disarm foes without ripping away their protection from other hard cc skills like bulls charge and such. The goal of the skill is to interrupt an attack and reduce pressure, not to lock them down (which is why it doesnt lock out their utilities). It's more finesse than power, and warrior doesn't get to show that they are capable of it that often. It also ensures that dagger burst (which should put Disenchantment on foes IMO) is still the boon rip burst, while sword is the interrupter into an offensive buff state, but you still need to land further attacks in order to gain more damage. It also preserves sword's ability to complement weapon swap after the burst since you could swap to say, Longbow for a pulsing aoe with the Hundred Blades buff, or Greatsword 100 Blades with the Hundred Blades buff for even MORE SWORDS.

    The reason why it also has a buff is that it allows sword to focus on its multi-hit game plan without being super commital to a self rooted (or even slow channel movent, it's a sword for fast movement and finesse) and act as an homage to one of the more classic GW1 sword skills, Hundred Blades. Just the evade/interrupt alone is hardly a burst skill, especially one with a more limited targeting method than full counter (which is a 300 radius, 5 target, unblockable attack).

    Of course off hand sword would need a fix to go with this >_>
    Off hand sword is cursed.

    I rly like the idea of a unique buff for warrior, especially since it feels like warriors are becoming less unique with every expansion added.

    Also, we dont rly have a single burst skill that gives us some kind of buff (which i know goes against the theme of being a "burst" and nothing over time, but it would be refreshing to have something like that.

    The only problem i see with your hundred blade homage is that a one handed sword is more of a single target weapon, or a dueling weapon, and not a cleaving weapon like a greatsword for example and dont see were that kind of buff would actually be helpful

    Arcing Slice gives Fury. If you slot Arms all burst give Fury, if you take Burst Mastery they give swiftness, but I get your point. More self boons would be nice.

    His Hundred Blade Idea could be single target though, the damage would have to be higher to compensate though.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    A burst skill dependant on your offhand weapon.

    That would be nice. An F2 based on your Offhand, and two handers get 2 bursts. Maybe Berserkers could get F1 Bursts back.

    What Offhand Bursts would you like to see?

    I was just thinking sword could be the only offhand burst weapon since flurry isn't good or memorable. As far as skills I'd say it should fit their theme and make better use of offhand weapons.

    OH Sword -> Evading Slash (Think ranger sword)
    OH Axe -> Leg Swipe (melee range pull)

    OH Mace -> Disarming Bash (Weakness and vulnerability)

    OH Shield -> Stability boon and melee range knockback

    OH Warhorn -> AoE based on targets hit for healing.

    OH Torch can stay as fire flavored flurry

    OH Dagger -> 600 range thrown dagger projection with small .25 second daze.

    Well If F2 burst were added I do not think Berserker or Spellbreaker would get them, so no torch or dagger. Overall though those are good ideas. I suppose that evading slash would inflict torment and have respectable power damage on it.

    What sort of F2s would you give the two handers?

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kiroshima.8497 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    To clarify, just because I like something someone posts does not mean that I necessarily think that should be the choice made, so far all of you have presented fun proposed updates to Flurry.

    Why not strip their stability and then daze them? I think what you are wanting here is a bit of a reach, but there are good things in it like the evading leap + daze. I think F1 being a buff that adds additional strikes is also a good idea, but I think meshing these two ideas together may be too much.

    The reason I don't want to rip stab is because I don't want warrior to be a boon destruction class without spellbreaker. By making you able to daze THROUGH stab, it still lets you disarm foes without ripping away their protection from other hard cc skills like bulls charge and such. The goal of the skill is to interrupt an attack and reduce pressure, not to lock them down (which is why it doesnt lock out their utilities). It's more finesse than power, and warrior doesn't get to show that they are capable of it that often. It also ensures that dagger burst (which should put Disenchantment on foes IMO) is still the boon rip burst, while sword is the interrupter into an offensive buff state, but you still need to land further attacks in order to gain more damage. It also preserves sword's ability to complement weapon swap after the burst since you could swap to say, Longbow for a pulsing aoe with the Hundred Blades buff, or Greatsword 100 Blades with the Hundred Blades buff for even MORE SWORDS.

    The reason why it also has a buff is that it allows sword to focus on its multi-hit game plan without being super commital to a self rooted (or even slow channel movent, it's a sword for fast movement and finesse) and act as an homage to one of the more classic GW1 sword skills, Hundred Blades. Just the evade/interrupt alone is hardly a burst skill, especially one with a more limited targeting method than full counter (which is a 300 radius, 5 target, unblockable attack).

    Of course off hand sword would need a fix to go with this >_>
    Off hand sword is cursed.

    I rly like the idea of a unique buff for warrior, especially since it feels like warriors are becoming less unique with every expansion added.

    Also, we dont rly have a single burst skill that gives us some kind of buff (which i know goes against the theme of being a "burst" and nothing over time, but it would be refreshing to have something like that.

    The only problem i see with your hundred blade homage is that a one handed sword is more of a single target weapon, or a dueling weapon, and not a cleaving weapon like a greatsword for example and dont see were that kind of buff would actually be helpful

    Arcing Slice gives Fury. If you slot Arms all burst give Fury, if you take Burst Mastery they give swiftness, but I get your point. More self boons would be nice.

    His Hundred Blade Idea could be single target though, the damage would have to be higher to compensate though.

    Im not talking about normal boons, my fault, should have clarified, im talking about unique buffs like the one he mentioned, special to warrior, not something we already get from every other class anyways.

  • @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    A burst skill dependant on your offhand weapon.

    That would be nice. An F2 based on your Offhand, and two handers get 2 bursts. Maybe Berserkers could get F1 Bursts back.

    What Offhand Bursts would you like to see?

    I was just thinking sword could be the only offhand burst weapon since flurry isn't good or memorable. As far as skills I'd say it should fit their theme and make better use of offhand weapons.

    OH Sword -> Evading Slash (Think ranger sword)
    OH Axe -> Leg Swipe (melee range pull)

    OH Mace -> Disarming Bash (Weakness and vulnerability)

    OH Shield -> Stability boon and melee range knockback

    OH Warhorn -> AoE based on targets hit for healing.

    OH Torch can stay as fire flavored flurry

    OH Dagger -> 600 range thrown dagger projection with small .25 second daze.

    Well If F2 burst were added I do not think Berserker or Spellbreaker would get them, so no torch or dagger. Overall though those are good ideas. I suppose that evading slash would inflict torment and have respectable power damage on it.

    What sort of F2s would you give the two handers?

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kiroshima.8497 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    To clarify, just because I like something someone posts does not mean that I necessarily think that should be the choice made, so far all of you have presented fun proposed updates to Flurry.

    Why not strip their stability and then daze them? I think what you are wanting here is a bit of a reach, but there are good things in it like the evading leap + daze. I think F1 being a buff that adds additional strikes is also a good idea, but I think meshing these two ideas together may be too much.

    The reason I don't want to rip stab is because I don't want warrior to be a boon destruction class without spellbreaker. By making you able to daze THROUGH stab, it still lets you disarm foes without ripping away their protection from other hard cc skills like bulls charge and such. The goal of the skill is to interrupt an attack and reduce pressure, not to lock them down (which is why it doesnt lock out their utilities). It's more finesse than power, and warrior doesn't get to show that they are capable of it that often. It also ensures that dagger burst (which should put Disenchantment on foes IMO) is still the boon rip burst, while sword is the interrupter into an offensive buff state, but you still need to land further attacks in order to gain more damage. It also preserves sword's ability to complement weapon swap after the burst since you could swap to say, Longbow for a pulsing aoe with the Hundred Blades buff, or Greatsword 100 Blades with the Hundred Blades buff for even MORE SWORDS.

    The reason why it also has a buff is that it allows sword to focus on its multi-hit game plan without being super commital to a self rooted (or even slow channel movent, it's a sword for fast movement and finesse) and act as an homage to one of the more classic GW1 sword skills, Hundred Blades. Just the evade/interrupt alone is hardly a burst skill, especially one with a more limited targeting method than full counter (which is a 300 radius, 5 target, unblockable attack).

    Of course off hand sword would need a fix to go with this >_>
    Off hand sword is cursed.

    I rly like the idea of a unique buff for warrior, especially since it feels like warriors are becoming less unique with every expansion added.

    Also, we dont rly have a single burst skill that gives us some kind of buff (which i know goes against the theme of being a "burst" and nothing over time, but it would be refreshing to have something like that.

    The only problem i see with your hundred blade homage is that a one handed sword is more of a single target weapon, or a dueling weapon, and not a cleaving weapon like a greatsword for example and dont see were that kind of buff would actually be helpful

    Arcing Slice gives Fury. If you slot Arms all burst give Fury, if you take Burst Mastery they give swiftness, but I get your point. More self boons would be nice.

    His Hundred Blade Idea could be single target though, the damage would have to be higher to compensate though.

    Im not talking about normal boons, my fault, should have clarified, im talking about unique buffs like the one he mentioned, special to warrior, not something we already get from every other class anyways.

    That would probably be better as a trait specific thing then.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    A burst skill dependant on your offhand weapon.

    That would be nice. An F2 based on your Offhand, and two handers get 2 bursts. Maybe Berserkers could get F1 Bursts back.

    What Offhand Bursts would you like to see?

    I was just thinking sword could be the only offhand burst weapon since flurry isn't good or memorable. As far as skills I'd say it should fit their theme and make better use of offhand weapons.

    OH Sword -> Evading Slash (Think ranger sword)
    OH Axe -> Leg Swipe (melee range pull)

    OH Mace -> Disarming Bash (Weakness and vulnerability)

    OH Shield -> Stability boon and melee range knockback

    OH Warhorn -> AoE based on targets hit for healing.

    OH Torch can stay as fire flavored flurry

    OH Dagger -> 600 range thrown dagger projection with small .25 second daze.

    Well If F2 burst were added I do not think Berserker or Spellbreaker would get them, so no torch or dagger. Overall though those are good ideas. I suppose that evading slash would inflict torment and have respectable power damage on it.

    What sort of F2s would you give the two handers?

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kiroshima.8497 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    To clarify, just because I like something someone posts does not mean that I necessarily think that should be the choice made, so far all of you have presented fun proposed updates to Flurry.

    Why not strip their stability and then daze them? I think what you are wanting here is a bit of a reach, but there are good things in it like the evading leap + daze. I think F1 being a buff that adds additional strikes is also a good idea, but I think meshing these two ideas together may be too much.

    The reason I don't want to rip stab is because I don't want warrior to be a boon destruction class without spellbreaker. By making you able to daze THROUGH stab, it still lets you disarm foes without ripping away their protection from other hard cc skills like bulls charge and such. The goal of the skill is to interrupt an attack and reduce pressure, not to lock them down (which is why it doesnt lock out their utilities). It's more finesse than power, and warrior doesn't get to show that they are capable of it that often. It also ensures that dagger burst (which should put Disenchantment on foes IMO) is still the boon rip burst, while sword is the interrupter into an offensive buff state, but you still need to land further attacks in order to gain more damage. It also preserves sword's ability to complement weapon swap after the burst since you could swap to say, Longbow for a pulsing aoe with the Hundred Blades buff, or Greatsword 100 Blades with the Hundred Blades buff for even MORE SWORDS.

    The reason why it also has a buff is that it allows sword to focus on its multi-hit game plan without being super commital to a self rooted (or even slow channel movent, it's a sword for fast movement and finesse) and act as an homage to one of the more classic GW1 sword skills, Hundred Blades. Just the evade/interrupt alone is hardly a burst skill, especially one with a more limited targeting method than full counter (which is a 300 radius, 5 target, unblockable attack).

    Of course off hand sword would need a fix to go with this >_>
    Off hand sword is cursed.

    I rly like the idea of a unique buff for warrior, especially since it feels like warriors are becoming less unique with every expansion added.

    Also, we dont rly have a single burst skill that gives us some kind of buff (which i know goes against the theme of being a "burst" and nothing over time, but it would be refreshing to have something like that.

    The only problem i see with your hundred blade homage is that a one handed sword is more of a single target weapon, or a dueling weapon, and not a cleaving weapon like a greatsword for example and dont see were that kind of buff would actually be helpful

    Arcing Slice gives Fury. If you slot Arms all burst give Fury, if you take Burst Mastery they give swiftness, but I get your point. More self boons would be nice.

    His Hundred Blade Idea could be single target though, the damage would have to be higher to compensate though.

    Im not talking about normal boons, my fault, should have clarified, im talking about unique buffs like the one he mentioned, special to warrior, not something we already get from every other class anyways.


    That would probably be better as a trait specific thing then.

    Why? Binding that to a trait would mean it would be available to all burst skills... Which might look good at first, but if you think about it, it would probably lead to a) a weak "boon" or b) nerfs to all burst skills, which then become less viable if you dont take this trait, further lowering build diversity

    If you tailor that specific "boon" to the burst skill it gives it more of an individual personallity, also, you could make it the main defining thing of that specific burst, because you could pack. More punch into that "boon" than into the activation part of the burst

    And im. Using "boon", because im not talking about the standart boons like fury, swiftness etc.

  • @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    A burst skill dependant on your offhand weapon.

    That would be nice. An F2 based on your Offhand, and two handers get 2 bursts. Maybe Berserkers could get F1 Bursts back.

    What Offhand Bursts would you like to see?

    I was just thinking sword could be the only offhand burst weapon since flurry isn't good or memorable. As far as skills I'd say it should fit their theme and make better use of offhand weapons.

    OH Sword -> Evading Slash (Think ranger sword)
    OH Axe -> Leg Swipe (melee range pull)

    OH Mace -> Disarming Bash (Weakness and vulnerability)

    OH Shield -> Stability boon and melee range knockback

    OH Warhorn -> AoE based on targets hit for healing.

    OH Torch can stay as fire flavored flurry

    OH Dagger -> 600 range thrown dagger projection with small .25 second daze.

    Well If F2 burst were added I do not think Berserker or Spellbreaker would get them, so no torch or dagger. Overall though those are good ideas. I suppose that evading slash would inflict torment and have respectable power damage on it.

    What sort of F2s would you give the two handers?

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kiroshima.8497 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    To clarify, just because I like something someone posts does not mean that I necessarily think that should be the choice made, so far all of you have presented fun proposed updates to Flurry.

    Why not strip their stability and then daze them? I think what you are wanting here is a bit of a reach, but there are good things in it like the evading leap + daze. I think F1 being a buff that adds additional strikes is also a good idea, but I think meshing these two ideas together may be too much.

    The reason I don't want to rip stab is because I don't want warrior to be a boon destruction class without spellbreaker. By making you able to daze THROUGH stab, it still lets you disarm foes without ripping away their protection from other hard cc skills like bulls charge and such. The goal of the skill is to interrupt an attack and reduce pressure, not to lock them down (which is why it doesnt lock out their utilities). It's more finesse than power, and warrior doesn't get to show that they are capable of it that often. It also ensures that dagger burst (which should put Disenchantment on foes IMO) is still the boon rip burst, while sword is the interrupter into an offensive buff state, but you still need to land further attacks in order to gain more damage. It also preserves sword's ability to complement weapon swap after the burst since you could swap to say, Longbow for a pulsing aoe with the Hundred Blades buff, or Greatsword 100 Blades with the Hundred Blades buff for even MORE SWORDS.

    The reason why it also has a buff is that it allows sword to focus on its multi-hit game plan without being super commital to a self rooted (or even slow channel movent, it's a sword for fast movement and finesse) and act as an homage to one of the more classic GW1 sword skills, Hundred Blades. Just the evade/interrupt alone is hardly a burst skill, especially one with a more limited targeting method than full counter (which is a 300 radius, 5 target, unblockable attack).

    Of course off hand sword would need a fix to go with this >_>
    Off hand sword is cursed.

    I rly like the idea of a unique buff for warrior, especially since it feels like warriors are becoming less unique with every expansion added.

    Also, we dont rly have a single burst skill that gives us some kind of buff (which i know goes against the theme of being a "burst" and nothing over time, but it would be refreshing to have something like that.

    The only problem i see with your hundred blade homage is that a one handed sword is more of a single target weapon, or a dueling weapon, and not a cleaving weapon like a greatsword for example and dont see were that kind of buff would actually be helpful

    Arcing Slice gives Fury. If you slot Arms all burst give Fury, if you take Burst Mastery they give swiftness, but I get your point. More self boons would be nice.

    His Hundred Blade Idea could be single target though, the damage would have to be higher to compensate though.

    Im not talking about normal boons, my fault, should have clarified, im talking about unique buffs like the one he mentioned, special to warrior, not something we already get from every other class anyways.


    That would probably be better as a trait specific thing then.

    Why? Binding that to a trait would mean it would be available to all burst skills... Which might look good at first, but if you think about it, it would probably lead to a) a weak "boon" or b) nerfs to all burst skills, which then become less viable if you dont take this trait, further lowering build diversity

    If you tailor that specific "boon" to the burst skill it gives it more of an individual personallity, also, you could make it the main defining thing of that specific burst, because you could pack. More punch into that "boon" than into the activation part of the burst

    And im. Using "boon", because im not talking about the standart boons like fury, swiftness etc.

    As in binding it to Blademaster. We also have traits to give us buffs when we use a burst skill: Berserker's Power and Adrenal Health primarily. I should have clarified that it would probably require a sword to be equipped.

    That does open the option then though for other weapon traits to get something similar, which would not necessarily be bad, but I think you wanted this just for Flurry correct?

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