Sigil ICDs - tied to individual sigils? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Sigil ICDs - tied to individual sigils?

Not sure if the title is clear, but my question is this:

Revenant player.
Weapon set 1: Sigil of Cleansing (equipped)
Weapon set 2: Sigil of Cleansing

Player is hit with conditions, and legend swaps from Glint to Shiro, which triggers the Sigil of Cleansing on their equipped weapon set, and activates the 9-second ICD
Player is immediately hit again with conditions, and weapon swaps to weapon set #2.

Question: Does the Sigil of Cleansing on weapon set #2 activate, or does it share the same ICD timer as the sigil on weapon set #1?

Comments

  • I haven't tested, but I'm almost absolutely certain the ICD is shared.

  • Usually the ICD is tied to the mechanic, not the sigil. However, as I recall, ICDs can be inconsistent, depending on who set them up. (Not that we know "who," of course.) For something like this, I'd test against a golem set to give conditions.

    PS your example works; not sure if there's any title that could convey the nuance

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  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They are supposed to be shared in the same way that you can't stack force sigils but how they behave in reality would require testing. Engineer would be easier to test with using kits.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    They are supposed to be shared in the same way that you can't stack force sigils but how they behave in reality would require testing. Engineer would be easier to test with using kits.

    Except Engineer can't weapon swap, which is why swapping kits trigger the sigil. Need to see that mechanic in action, but with two different sigils on two different weapons.

    I'll see if I have time ill do a test tonight.

  • @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    They are supposed to be shared in the same way that you can't stack force sigils but how they behave in reality would require testing. Engineer would be easier to test with using kits.

    Except Engineer can't weapon swap, which is why swapping kits trigger the sigil. Need to see that mechanic in action, but with two different sigils on two different weapons.

    I'll see if I have time ill do a test tonight.

    Warrior with Quick Draw.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2019

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    They are supposed to be shared in the same way that you can't stack force sigils but how they behave in reality would require testing. Engineer would be easier to test with using kits.

    Except Engineer can't weapon swap, which is why swapping kits trigger the sigil. Need to see that mechanic in action, but with two different sigils on two different weapons.

    I'll see if I have time ill do a test tonight.

    Warrior with Quick Draw.

    So that one is on the Wiki: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil

    Sigil interaction
    A character can always equip two sigils at a time (either one sigil each on a main-hand and off-hand weapon, or two sigils on a two-handed weapon). In general, the two sigils will both provide their effects independently as long as the base sigil is different. The exceptions to this are the attribute increasing stacking sigils: only one stack effect can be active at a time. Additionally, sigils with the same base sigil will share cooldowns between weapon sets.

    Examples
    [...]
    A warrior with Fast Hands is wielding a greatsword and axe/mace, with Superior Sigil of Battle in both weapon sets. He can swap weapons every 5 seconds, but the sigils will trigger only every 9 seconds, since they share cooldown.

    Which is why I suspect they would share a cooldown, but here again we are talking about actual weapon swaps, not an action that triggers sigils like one, but isn't itself a weapon swap. I'm still pretty sure it wouldn't work, as it would be pretty broken, and if it does work, would be considered a bug and fixed soon (tm).

  • It's always worth checking. Coders mean to do X and X is the result 9x/10, but I tend to want to have a look anyhow at #10. Trust, but verify.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    @LaGranse.8652 has me corrected so the contents of this post is now moot. Refer to my next comment on the subject for suggestions.

  • LaGranse.8652LaGranse.8652 Member ✭✭✭

    @rng.1024 said:
    As per your question, the sigil only activates when weapon skills are swapped so swapping legends won't invoke any cooldown or benefit thereof whatsoever.

    Furthermore, unless you have the warrior's "Fast Hands" trait or "Superior Rune of the Warrior" equipped, the internal cooldown of this sigil coincides perfectly with the 10 second window between weapon swaps.

    All this means, given you have one Sigil of Cleansing in each weapon set, that you will clear 3 conditions (1 in sPvP) always when you weapon swap . Since you are playing revenant there are no bundles, except the those dropped by allies, that can interfere with this sigil/weaponswap cleanse synergy.

    The only way to cleanse conditions while swapping legends is by the trait "Cleansing Channel".

    And yes identical sigils share icd, so in the case you had say the warrior rune and swapped weapons before the 9 seconds had passed you would get no benefit from the 2nd set sigil and would have to wait until the next weapon swap for the 1st set sigil to proc. The wiki is clear on this and I can vouch for it through personal in-game experience:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil

    Tl:dr; Since weaponswap and sigils that activate on weaponswap coincide within the same window of cooldowns, the sigils will always activate on weapon swap if you have one of the same in each set. It will not trigger unless you swap weapons by pressing the "swap weapon" assigned button, or equip a bundle/transform that alters all your available weapon skills.

    Swapping legends on a revenant does trigger sigil on weapon swap effects so what you are saying is not accurate.

  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LaGranse.8652 said:

    @rng.1024 said:
    As per your question, the sigil only activates when weapon skills are swapped so swapping legends won't invoke any cooldown or benefit thereof whatsoever.

    Furthermore, unless you have the warrior's "Fast Hands" trait or "Superior Rune of the Warrior" equipped, the internal cooldown of this sigil coincides perfectly with the 10 second window between weapon swaps.

    All this means, given you have one Sigil of Cleansing in each weapon set, that you will clear 3 conditions (1 in sPvP) always when you weapon swap . Since you are playing revenant there are no bundles, except the those dropped by allies, that can interfere with this sigil/weaponswap cleanse synergy.

    The only way to cleanse conditions while swapping legends is by the trait "Cleansing Channel".

    And yes identical sigils share icd, so in the case you had say the warrior rune and swapped weapons before the 9 seconds had passed you would get no benefit from the 2nd set sigil and would have to wait until the next weapon swap for the 1st set sigil to proc. The wiki is clear on this and I can vouch for it through personal in-game experience:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil

    Tl:dr; Since weaponswap and sigils that activate on weaponswap coincide within the same window of cooldowns, the sigils will always activate on weapon swap if you have one of the same in each set. It will not trigger unless you swap weapons by pressing the "swap weapon" assigned button, or equip a bundle/transform that alters all your available weapon skills.

    Swapping legends on a revenant does trigger sigil on weapon swap effects so what you are saying is not accurate.

    Did some digging, seems to be a lingering bug from beta when revenants had only 1 weaponset so thanks for pointing it out.

    As for op's scenario, then swapping legends would invoke the shared icd of the sigil, meaning weaponswapping right after will give no benefit. You'd still have to wait 9 seconds before the 2nd set sigil can be procced, since identical sigils can only proc once every 9 seconds regardless.

    The better option would be to use a Sigil of Purity in the 2nd set then, since having 4 available swaps during the icd is unfortunate and hard to predict. This way you will always cleanse a condition when you switch to or swap legends with the 1st set equipped, and another when you hit something on your 2nd. Doing this you can also be 100% sure the cleansing sigil is off cd when you are able to swap to your 1st set again while removing the same amount of conditions, while always knowing the first strike with your 2nd will do the same.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I tested it out on the test golems in the fractal lobby, and they do share a cooldown.

    @rng.1024 said:
    The better option would be to use a Sigil of Purity in the 2nd set then, since having 4 available swaps during the icd is unfortunate and hard to predict. This way you will always cleanse a condition when you switch to or swap legends with the 1st set equipped, and another when you hit something on your 2nd. Doing this you can also be 100% sure the cleansing sigil is off cd when you are able to swap to your 1st set again while removing the same amount of conditions, while always knowing the first strike with your 2nd will do the same.

    This is good advice, and I quickly noticed the same issue. While in WvW on Hammer Rev, I used to run Sigil of Cleansing only on my staff, but as I keep getting bombarded with conditions 1vX, I decided to put the sigil on my Hammer as well. This created the problem of me not knowing if I would cleanse a condition via weapon swap because of the ICD, wheras before I knew it as a certainty.

    I'll give Purity a go, as hitting from the flank with Vengeful Hammers if quite easy.

  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    I tested it out on the test golems in the fractal lobby, and they do share a cooldown.

    @rng.1024 said:
    The better option would be to use a Sigil of Purity in the 2nd set then, since having 4 available swaps during the icd is unfortunate and hard to predict. This way you will always cleanse a condition when you switch to or swap legends with the 1st set equipped, and another when you hit something on your 2nd. Doing this you can also be 100% sure the cleansing sigil is off cd when you are able to swap to your 1st set again while removing the same amount of conditions, while always knowing the first strike with your 2nd will do the same.

    This is good advice, and I quickly noticed the same issue. While in WvW on Hammer Rev, I used to run Sigil of Cleansing only on my staff, but as I keep getting bombarded with conditions 1vX, I decided to put the sigil on my Hammer as well. This created the problem of me not knowing if I would cleanse a condition via weapon swap because of the ICD, wheras before I knew it as a certainty.

    I'll give Purity a go, as hitting from the flank with Vengeful Hammers if quite easy.

    Indeed Vengeful Hammers are excellent for that.

    I really wish the developers decided to treat all sigils with icd like they do Sigil of Doom and Sigil of Annulment in sPvP where you get a clear visual indicator of when your sigil is procced, however preferably an icon that is there when off cooldown and gone while it's on cooldown for better predictability, counterplay and transparancy.

    There is nothing fun about whiffing a cooldown of 9-18 seconds dependent on weapon swap meaning you are punished for the next full 10 seconds, so I believe for cleanse Purging is the way to go.

    In case you find the flank hitting too tricky, try out the Generosity sigil - it has a 2 second longer cooldown but activates on a critical hit instead, which should be no issue on a revenant. It transfers a stack, and on top of that uses the appliers condition damage to calculate damage done - so if a trailblazer guardian put 10 burn on you, you can send them back at full strength even though you are a power rev which can come in pretty handy - and it's still more cleanse than if you use your current identical cleansing sigils.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @rng.1024 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    I tested it out on the test golems in the fractal lobby, and they do share a cooldown.

    @rng.1024 said:
    The better option would be to use a Sigil of Purity in the 2nd set then, since having 4 available swaps during the icd is unfortunate and hard to predict. This way you will always cleanse a condition when you switch to or swap legends with the 1st set equipped, and another when you hit something on your 2nd. Doing this you can also be 100% sure the cleansing sigil is off cd when you are able to swap to your 1st set again while removing the same amount of conditions, while always knowing the first strike with your 2nd will do the same.

    This is good advice, and I quickly noticed the same issue. While in WvW on Hammer Rev, I used to run Sigil of Cleansing only on my staff, but as I keep getting bombarded with conditions 1vX, I decided to put the sigil on my Hammer as well. This created the problem of me not knowing if I would cleanse a condition via weapon swap because of the ICD, wheras before I knew it as a certainty.

    I'll give Purity a go, as hitting from the flank with Vengeful Hammers if quite easy.

    Indeed Vengeful Hammers are excellent for that.

    I really wish the developers decided to treat all sigils with icd like they do Sigil of Doom and Sigil of Annulment in sPvP where you get a clear visual indicator of when your sigil is procced, however preferably an icon that is there when off cooldown and gone while it's on cooldown for better predictability, counterplay and transparancy.

    There is nothing fun about whiffing a cooldown of 9-18 seconds dependent on weapon swap meaning you are punished for the next full 10 seconds, so I believe for cleanse Purging is the way to go.

    In case you find the flank hitting too tricky, try out the Generosity sigil - it has a 2 second longer cooldown but activates on a critical hit instead, which should be no issue on a revenant. It transfers a stack, and on top of that uses the appliers condition damage to calculate damage done - so if a trailblazer guardian put 10 burn on you, you can send them back at full strength even though you are a power rev which can come in pretty handy - and it's still more cleanse than if you use your current identical cleansing sigils.

    Great suggestion, thank you! I like the idea of Generosity on my main DPS weapon more than Cleansing or Purity. Will definitely give it a try.

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